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Author Topic: Pre Colombus exploration of mainland North America  (Read 4648 times)

Chris Johnson

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Pre Colombus exploration of mainland North America
« on: September 22, 2013, 06:36:04 AM »

Thread rightly locked so open this up if you still want to discuss!!!!

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Quote from: Jeff Neville on September 16, 2013, 06:15:17 PM

Lots of possibilities for debate though - the thing might even be a rune stone for all we know...  ;)




(We call them the Redskins now).

* Runes.png (393.16 kB, 600x480 - viewed 74 times.)


Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R

Jeff N Replied

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LOL!!!

Now, there's just no telling who really moved that thing ( ;)), but in the end whoever it was did everybody a big favor I think - it might have laid there another 20 years while bureaucrats puzzled over what to do with it to save it - and been bashed to pieces or something.  Instead it finally shows up safely on campus, securely ushered in by an able truck.

And as was pointed out, while the state apparently 'owns' all the stuff below the mean water line, it is not illegal to remove a 'rock' from a body of water; and at that point, it was still classified as a 'rock' so far as I know - perhaps even a hazard to navigation (and itself by exposure)?  Had it been officially deemed an 'artifact' at that point it might have been different one supposes.

Sorry Tim - couldn't resist putting that one up, it was interesting - and kind of funny to me, and being in the public press, well...  :D  I wish I had the gravel to tell the county Marshall to go pound sand with my attorney when he's snooping aroujnd to see if I've been burning leaves without a permit after a sore neighbor reports smoke...  My neighborhood is a bit more mundane - we have to buy the local crapsheet off the corner store's counter to see what 'society' is up to - the DUIs, stickings, shootings and gummings (a good many don't have good teeth around here...) and trailer break-ins.  The most exciting lake-related mysteries we get is the random alligator poaching or magneto fishing now and then.

Seriously, I think the guy who believes those stones may have been marked up by more recent European settlers who did it to celebrate their heritage and 'mark the spot' is the more likely explanation.  Templars and Vikings are always cool ideas, but it's a long way from Tipperary in a long boat or 14th century lateen rigged ship.

LTM - Jeff, TIGHAR #3074R
Measure twice,
be nice.

Harry Howe Said

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Jeff
Perhaps you should read about Saint Brendan's Voyage. Circa 500 AD.  Monks sailing in a leather ship from Eireland to the "New World".  And let's not forget Hyerdahl on a balsa raft, and a papyrus ship.  Mankind had been sailing from East to West for a long time before a certain Italian who probably read about St Brendan, and Leif Erickson, Circa 1000 AD, when he (Columbus, whose name was Colon) was studying navigation (and didn't learn his lessons too well, hehe) .

I wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising, adventurous soul had carved a boat of sorts out of a log and headed West to where the Dragons (beyond this point there be Dragons) lived.  Just to see what happened to that humungus ball of fire after it fell over the edge, hehe.

No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)

Jeff N

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Good suggestions, Harry.  I didn't mean to shortchange the idea of that sort of thing - and we do have reason to believe some of it happened. 

But as to the rune stones - the simpler idea seems the most logical - later era settlers may have inscribed these things in some celebratory fashion (or may have had my kind of sense of humor and intended to leave a puzzle for us...).  Kind of a latter-era 'Kilroy was Here'  kind of thing maybe.

Then again you never know -

"Leif, put down that hammer and chisel, it's getting COLD and the guys are going to mutiny..."

Well, I'd settle for finding something bearing "Amelia was Here".

Harry Howe
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Jeff
With respect to Rune Stones (especially The Rune Stone in Minnesota)  It isn't much of a st retch to imagine a group of expert sailors (called The Vikings) "Sailing Latitude"off the southern tip of Iceand to the southern tip of Greenland and then westward.  Eventually they would have sailed into a large bay that we now call Ungava Bay that leads into Hudson's Strait which leads into what we now call Hudson's Bay.  Sailing latitude across Hudson's Bay leads one to the mouths of three large rivers (the Hays, The Gods, and the Nelson) Couldn't miss them if ya tried!  Follow any of them up river ad ya get to Lake Winnipeg.  Paddle/sail down that Lake and ya get to the Red River of the North, which leads to the Minnesota River.  Well ya get the idea, if not , read Eric Sevareid's book "Canoeing With The Cree for a description of his trip in the opposite direction.

No Worries Mates
LTM   Harry (TIGHAR #3244R)

Jeff N
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Agree, not hard to imagine - and it could well be I suppose.  Just odd that more 'camp' evidence wasn't found - but that proves nothing, of course.

I saw the one academic's comment on the possibility of later settlers and it made more sense to me as a likelihood - but who knows?  Maybe this thing will be figured out yet.

LTM - Jeff, TIGHAR #3074R
Measure twice,
be nice.

Chris Johnson
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Inland waterways were one of the 'Vikings' main entry routes.  It was only when the French bridged the Seine that Paris was made safer from their attentions.

History likes to claim Columbus found America but the evidence suggests at least the Vikings if not others got there first.

In fact  CC didn't even set foot on the mainland!!!

Short odds crashed and sank, money on Niku

Harry Howe
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In the book "St Brendan's Voyage" ( I'll have to look forthe author) it is stated or implied that Brendan's  manuscript report was well known in and around navigational schools of the time (and later) that the Vatican (read The Pope) confiscated it and buried it in the Vatican Archives  Typical governmental response to things that it sees as detrimental to its status quo. ( Can't have "The Flock" going around thinking there is an unexplored world out there somewhere, they might want to go there.)

Any takers?
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Bill de Creeft

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Re: Pre Colombus exploration of mainland North America
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2013, 09:19:13 PM »

I became very interested in this 20 or 30 years ago...I recommend "America B.C" by Professor Barry Fell.
I was so impressed I called him up at the time and discussed some details with him
Some fascinating stuff in there; Micmac Indian language connections with Eastern Civilizations, mohomadan inscriptions confused with American Indian rock carvings,...but go ahead and read it on your own, whomever of you is interested ...I hope you saw the documentary recently on this subject (can't remember the details!) on the Learning channel or the History channel...
...I wasn't prepared for this to pop up tonight here , so nothing pre- set in my 80+ year old memory banks !?!
Bill
Bill de Creeft

Tighar Member #4131
 
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