Advanced search  

Poll

In Reply #24 to the "Summary of Debris" thread, there is a scale for the picture of the scallop shell.

 2 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 5 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 8 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
13 centimeters
- 1 (6.3%)
18 centimeters
- 3 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 15


Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 26   Go Down

Author Topic: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video  (Read 422583 times)

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #135 on: December 14, 2012, 12:03:55 PM »

    "Know, stranger, that all you will confront is strange -
      and in your own image."



Fact can often be stranger than fiction.
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
Logged

richie conroy

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #136 on: December 14, 2012, 12:52:59 PM »

Hi All

In the attached images

Object A, Can anyone else see the word RAISE ?

Object B, Looks like a carved letter D

Object C, Appears  to be box like object with tube coming from it ?

Thank's Richie

 
We are an echo of the past


Member# 416
 
Logged

Will Hatchell

  • inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 56
  • "Down to the nitty-gritty"
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #137 on: December 14, 2012, 01:04:00 PM »

Hatch, I would characterize what is up-slope of the Navigation station and WC as kind of a mish-mash: fuel tank, battery, landing gear, and who knows what else.  Nothing is orderly and readily mapable.

Then, considering the types of items found (generally small, personal effects, in addition to the bodies being found together), it would appear that the fuselage moved relatively intact downslope, beginning to break up on its way down, and the positions of those items relative to one another (including the mishmash, landing gear, fuel tank, etc.) are entirely what one would expect, would you agree, Tim? The fuselage may or may not have hung up for any length of time on the higher shelf before sliding on down?

Hatch

TIGHAR #3975S
 
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #138 on: December 14, 2012, 01:12:52 PM »

If and thats a BIG IF there were two sets of remains where does that leave the casterway?
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #139 on: December 14, 2012, 01:41:45 PM »

Chris----I would say that IF there IS 2 sets of remains, it 'probably isnt" the target we are looking for.
AGAIN----Identifyible evidence of NR16020, and not something the we dont know about.
Tom
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Chris Johnson

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Trying to give a fig but would settle for $100,000
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #140 on: December 14, 2012, 01:54:46 PM »

Remains don't seem likly anyway unless enclosed in sediment or other conditions such as found on the Mary Rose or Hunley.  No visible remains with the titanic, Bismark or Hood, just clues such as boots and gas masks.
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #141 on: December 14, 2012, 01:56:47 PM »

Then, considering the types of items found (generally small, personal effects, in addition to the bodies being found together), it would appear that the fuselage moved relatively intact downslope, beginning to break up on its way down, and the positions of those items relative to one another (including the mishmash, landing gear, fuel tank, etc.) are entirely what one would expect, would you agree, Tim? The fuselage may or may not have hung up for any length of time on the higher shelf before sliding on down?

Hatch, the scenario that keeps coming to mind for me is one whereby the aircraft, because of an extra high tide or swell or storm surge, floats off of the reef westward, then gradually looses boyancy when the fuel tanks take on salt water through their air vents. It starts to sink straight down, picking up speed as the air tanks are crushed by increasing water pressure, then breaks up only when it hits the bottom at 800 feet, leaving most of the internal contents in relatively the same proximity to one another. But then, it's just a guess.
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
Logged

Will Hatchell

  • inactive
  • *
  • Posts: 56
  • "Down to the nitty-gritty"
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #142 on: December 14, 2012, 02:38:02 PM »

Sounds plausible and I have no problem at all with the mechanics of washing off the reef and sinking, however, for the life of me, I can't understand what accounted for it locking up on that steep slope and not continuing on down. That's a steep underwater slope!  :o



Hatch

TIGHAR #3975S
 
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #143 on: December 14, 2012, 03:06:18 PM »

If and thats a BIG IF there were two sets of remains where does that leave the casterway?

It is certainly possible that Fred, injured as he seems to have been, may never have left the aircraft; and Amelia may have left only once or twice to scout out the shoreline. She was, after all, tending to the radio transmissions when the water was low, at least for the first three days. And it is no easy trek over those very slippery and pocked reef surfaces for the 50 yards (or so) to shore, even at low water. If she couldn't help Fred from the plane, it stands to reason that they would stay together in the relative safety of the aircraft, just hoping to be seen by a rescue plane. (All, of course, IMHO).
 
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 03:09:16 PM by Tim Mellon »
Logged

Dan Kelly

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #144 on: December 14, 2012, 05:40:39 PM »

Hi All

In the attached images

Object A, Can anyone else see the word RAISE ?

Object B, Looks like a carved letter D

Object C, Appears  to be box like object with tube coming from it ?

Thank's Richie

 

No.
Logged

Dan Kelly

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #145 on: December 14, 2012, 05:49:42 PM »

If and thats a BIG IF there were two sets of remains where does that leave the casterway?

It is certainly possible that Fred, injured as he seems to have been, may never have left the aircraft; and Amelia may have left only once or twice to scout out the shoreline. She was, after all, tending to the radio transmissions when the water was low, at least for the first three days. And it is no easy trek over those very slippery and pocked reef surfaces for the 50 yards (or so) to shore, even at low water. If she couldn't help Fred from the plane, it stands to reason that they would stay together in the relative safety of the aircraft, just hoping to be seen by a rescue plane. (All, of course, IMHO).

Mr Mellon does your confident identification of the skeletons on the reef mean that you are definitely ruling out Dr Burns' identification of the castaway skeleton as possibly being Earhart, which would also exclude the associated objects found at and around the Seven Site which have been proposed as evidence of Earhart being on Nikumaroro. That includes the camp fire debris and the claims by professional anthropologists that some of the fish and clam remains indicate eating by non-islanders. Does that then mean that you agree with folks who have posted disputing the links as unproven.
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #146 on: December 14, 2012, 06:14:03 PM »

Mr Mellon does your confident identification of the skeletons on the reef mean that you are definitely ruling out Dr Burns' identification of the castaway skeleton as possibly being Earhart, which would also exclude the associated objects found at and around the Seven Site which have been proposed as evidence of Earhart being on Nikumaroro. That includes the camp fire debris and the claims by professional anthropologists that some of the fish and clam remains indicate eating by non-islanders. Does that then mean that you agree with folks who have posted disputing the links as unproven.

"Female Caucasian" and "possibly being Earhart" are not quite the same (not withstanding a prior expert opinion of male non-Caucasian). I also seem to recall that the administrator Gerald Gallagher set up a weekend retreat somewhere down-island (I won't speculate how he may have used the rouge...).

 My eyes believe more what they see than they believe reports with hypothetical conclusions, so I would sum it up: 90% skeletons, 10% circumstantial evidence. My own view only, of course.
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 06:29:46 PM by Tim Mellon »
Logged

Dan Kelly

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #147 on: December 14, 2012, 07:23:04 PM »


"Female Caucasian" and "possibly being Earhart" are not quite the same (not withstanding a prior expert opinion of male non-Caucasian). I also seem to recall that the administrator Gerald Gallagher set up a weekend retreat somewhere down-island (I won't speculate how he may have used the rouge...).

 My eyes believe more what they see than they believe reports with hypothetical conclusions, so I would sum it up: 90% skeletons, 10% circumstantial evidence. My own view only, of course.

Thank you Mr Mellon - who do you think is responsible for the Seven Site objects? 
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #148 on: December 15, 2012, 12:50:00 AM »

To me "circumstantial" does mean "unproven" in the stricktest sense. But other explanations like flotsam and/or jetsam from the aircraft may be involved. Or Gallagher, as mentioned. Or even Coast Guard (or their "invitees"). Others may propose additional possibilities.
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 12:51:34 AM by Tim Mellon »
Logged

John Joseph Barrett

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 100
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #149 on: December 15, 2012, 06:47:46 AM »

There is some irony that the items recovered at the 7 site may indeed have no connection to our lost heroes, or maybe some other unucky soul found them washed ashore and put them to use there before dying. The short time frame between the disappearance and the colonization does seem to limit that possibility. There are myriad explanations as to what could have happened. IF, and I agree with Chris, it is a BIG IF, that is wreckage of the Electra with crew still aboard, then the remains found at the 7 site are someone else altogether. Going down with the plane would seem to fit with Betty's notebook and the comments about rising water, needing to get out, and putative struggles/argument with Fred. That is, of course, if you accept the notebook as legit. Having policed for a bit over 23 years I've seen quite a few investigations take strange twists and turns on the way to the truth, and those are of recent occurances. 75 years later? Yeah, there will be twists and turns here too. For the record, I see possible remains, including the key, as Mr. Mellon points out. Is that what they are? I don't know as I don't know what human remains do in those conditions. I wouldn't bet either way without knowing that. It does present an interesting twist though. I wonder how many more there will be?  LTM- Who always loved a good puzzle.  -John
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10] 11 12 ... 26   Go Up
 

Copyright 2024 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.18 | SMF © 2021, Simple Machines Powered by PHP