Advanced search  

Poll

In Reply #24 to the "Summary of Debris" thread, there is a scale for the picture of the scallop shell.

 2 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 5 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 8 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
13 centimeters
- 1 (6.3%)
18 centimeters
- 3 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 15


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 26   Go Down

Author Topic: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video  (Read 308012 times)

Dan Kelly

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2012, 07:10:32 PM »


Well Mr Mellon it tells me that it is just a bit of coral that's got a bit of a squarish edge after it broke. Fine grained rocks do
that sort of thing.

I find it odd all these odd angles have left angles right angles

But no even angles. dya get it  :D

Well you must have sharper eyes than me Mr Conroy - I just see all sorts of odd angles, and none of them particularly sharp.
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2012, 07:22:09 PM »

Not saying it is or it isn't, but does anyone know which way the toilet faced when mounted (in the plane  ;D, not when in use)? The one in my boat just sits in a rather small area and can face whichever way you want. Generally it faces the bow so you sit with your back to the rear bulkhead. I've found that reduces unexpected movements  ;D as the boat is under weigh. The reason I ask is simple, IF what resembles a toilet in the photo is not facing where it would be in the Electra than it either is NOT a toilet or it was moved about for some reason. I can't imagine that it would not have been mounted to the deck in some fashion to keep it from moving about and wither damaging the plane or worse, spilling its contents. IF it is a toilet in the photo it appears to face toward the rear of the plane which doesn't make sense to me as the lid wouldn't stay up when the plane was on the ground, unless there was a hook or something.  LTM- who always loved a straight flush  ;D
-John
.                     

According to (partially discredited) Harney drawings, potty was situated back to port fuselage, facing to starboard. No mention of cover position. I am only reporting what my own tired eyes can see.                                             
                                                                 :) :)
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
Logged

Greg Daspit

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 735
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2012, 08:13:59 PM »

Regarding the accuracy of the Harney drawings. The landing gear shown in the cutaway section seems to be the later adopted articulated version of the landing gear and not the older type on AE's Electra.
3971R
 
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2012, 05:24:15 AM »

Guys---it doesnt matter what we THINK it is, it only matter what it REALLY is. The debate back and forth isnt getting the results necessary for a positive identification. And, IMHO, it doesnt matter how good a photo specialist is, the only way to KNOW for sure is to go get some of this stuff.
Yeah, I know, it takes $$$$$$$$$, and there have been numerous expeditions. But we are saying the same things that have been said long since before I became a member several years ago. Yes we have some awesome underwater video. Thats great for Discovery, and Nat Geo, and the Travel Channel, but in the overall scheme of things, is Tighar any closer to its goal? Personally, I dont think so.
I was under the impression (falsely as it turned out) that the ROV's were going to raise something for identification. If THAT turned out to be positive, then a full scale salvage undertaking would proceed. Now, we still have this huge debate whether anything was found or not. $2.2 Million, and not getting anywhere, except some great footage of a reef, and ALOT of ruffled feathers.

I purpose that we take the 2010 video, the coordinates from the Naia', and try to pinpoint the area where the 2010 video was taken. I say that, because that appears to be a good starting point.
Until Tighar can get the proposed location into a smaller box, we are not making any headway.
Tom
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

JNev

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 778
  • It's a GOOD thing to be in the cornfield...
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2012, 06:32:45 AM »

Well, I wouldn't go too hard on the Harney Drawings - they are terrific as a pictoral guide, an illustration of what we're about here in the general sense.  But it is true that a grain of salt is needed before plunging into considering them authoritative - the articulated gear that Greg noticed is another good example of why.  In no way do I wish to criticize the drawings - merely for us to keep our balance here, that's all.

I also don't care to criticize Mr. Mellon in his enthusiastic search, or others similarly motivated.  I merely mean to encourage critical depth as these things are analyzed.  I came to this place for edification and to have a bit of fun, so I hope that is never forgotten.  I think the more serious we are about learning to apply more critical skills to this the more we all gain from it.  I admire that Tim went back and read the entire original ROV Stills string (well over 100 pages) to catch up on what many of us went through before on this very kind of thing - that can only add perspective.

I wish I could see the same things others do - and often I can see the shapes and understand 'how' they see them I guess.  But it seems like a lot of ground has been covered since I started to realize what effects things like scale, shadowing and natural formations have on the lens and the human eye and mind.  When some 'thing' is pointed out, I do 'look' - I don't just dismiss - but so far I am critically seeing more what Dan described above than 'airplane' after all (and anyone can go back and see what enthusiastic things I had to say about some early 'finds', like the gear and 'squiggly').

I'm also appreciative of Tim going to Jeff Glickman to see what they might find together.  I don't have really high hopes, but I think it is grand that both are willing to do that together.  The point of it is people trying their best to find things out if it can be found out.  I think I'll choose not to judge motives there, etc. but leave it as being that simple.  At the end of it, if they 'see something', I'm still free to judge for myself.

Which brings me to where I see all this at this point in time: we still have an interesting set of 'markers' (from 'on land' IMO, not so much under the sea as I can see it) and depending on one's reading of their import, one may draw a conclusion (AE there yea or nay), or one may feel the matter remains unproven (I am there but lean toward Niku as a 'very interesting prospect').

Sorry to go on so - we see so many words and exchanges here, but for me that is the 'summary of debris' to-date.  I think I'll watch here for a while now...
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 06:34:19 AM by J. Nevill »
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2012, 11:41:34 AM »

I just hope Tim can handle what Jeff has to say on what he see's   ;)

Richie, do you have this expression in Liverpool?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
Logged

Bob Lanz

  • T4
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2012, 01:19:53 PM »

I just hope Tim can handle what Jeff has to say on what he see's   ;)

Richie, do you have this expression in Liverpool?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Tim, do you know why they named that Liverpool?  A pool of liver, what a sobering thought!  What were they thinking?  ;)
Doc
TIGHAR #3906
 
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2012, 01:45:20 PM »

Mersey me...
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
Logged

JNev

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 778
  • It's a GOOD thing to be in the cornfield...
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2012, 02:33:16 PM »

Oh Tay, you two are killin' me...
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
Logged

Bob Lanz

  • T4
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2012, 03:40:29 PM »

Oh Tay, you two are killin' me...

Don't worry dude, we ain't gonna eat ya. :-\
Doc
TIGHAR #3906
 
Logged

Alan Harris

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2012, 04:03:46 PM »

Oh Tay, you two are killin' me...

Spoken like a true Gulfstream fan . . . or at least a R-R Rivers aficionado.  Why they think their engines are all wet is beyond me . . .   :D
Logged

richie conroy

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2012, 04:19:48 PM »

I just hope Tim can handle what Jeff has to say on what he see's   ;)

Richie, do you have this expression in Liverpool?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Depend's whether u intend to lead with hand or by rope  ;D
We are an echo of the past


Member# 416
 
Logged

Dan Kelly

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2012, 04:21:19 PM »

I just hope Tim can handle what Jeff has to say on what he see's   ;)

Richie, do you have this expression in Liverpool?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Yes, but even a horse has to be sure it is water it is seeing.
Logged

richie conroy

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2012, 04:23:01 PM »

I just hope Tim can handle what Jeff has to say on what he see's   ;)

Richie, do you have this expression in Liverpool?

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

Yes, but even a horse has to be sure it is water it is seeing.

Would a thirsty horse need to be lead  :)
We are an echo of the past


Member# 416
 
Logged

Dan Kelly

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2012, 07:19:11 PM »

Oh my, the blind leading the blind.  ;)

 ;D
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 26   Go Up
 

Copyright 2019 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Powered by PHP