TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => The Islands: Expeditions, Facts, Castaway, Finds and Environs => Topic started by: Randy Conrad on August 01, 2012, 05:34:11 PM
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Hi! Last night I received an email from Joe Cerniglia in regards to questions that arose bout matters concerning on how campfires were started at the "7th" site. Joe wanted me to tell you that those interested might look at the ingredients of St. Joseph's N & B Family Linament. On the bottle you will find ingredients of Kerosene, Turpentine, Cepsicum, Pine Tar, Oils of Pine Needles, Hemlock, Origenum, Cedarwood, Citronella, and Camphor. Joe goes on to tell me that today at most Stop n Shops you can get Citronella Torch fuel for camping and campfires. He believes this may be the case why a green bottle that was found at the campsite in a campfire pit was burned and very black on the bottom, indicating a very hot fire! As I read his email, and reading up on some of your comments in regards to Amelia and Fred taking shelter on the Norwich City, I wandered if this be the case...what kind of inventory items they would find on the Norwich City, to start a fire, or what kind of survival items that were available and what items of food were left behind? Now we all know that the Norwich City caught fire. But, does anyone know how much of it was badly burned and what was left? We've discussed rocket lines, which we all believe is the reasoning behind the ropes in the Rov videos on the reefs edge and how the survivors made their way to land. We know by statements that certain provisions of food and clothing articles were taken, but wander how much was left behind? Beings Amelia, a Kansas girl at heart, and I a Kansas native, can bout tell anyone, that in Kansas if you wanna start a campfire, you're gonna have to improvise! In other words, gas is not the only thing that can start a fire. As a child my favorite thing to do was take a magnifiying glass and start ants on fire, then firecrackers, and then you know the rest of the story. Is it possible, that part of the sextant lense could have been used to start a fire...or was there a magnifying glass handy on the Norwich City, or was the magnifying glass used for Amelia's world flight? Like Joe mentioned, several family household products back then could have definately been used to start a fire. Basically, in this case an accelerant! Question...how much fuel or fuel cans were left on the Norwich City??? Did Amelia have ration cans on the Electra, but not enough to get her to Howland! Basically, two gallons of gas is not gonna get me there...but would be handy for several nites for a fire and a light at night! We all know by now that the Electra was noted as being called "The Flying Laboratory"! Hmmm! I wonder what else she had on that plane? As for the "Dr. Berry's Freckle Ointment" jar found at one of the fire pits, I was informed this afternoon by a friend at work who is a chemist...and I had asked him the question in regards to freckle ointment if it will burn. Told him the story and the story behind the jar, and he told me that mercury will burn...But, in this case if the fire reaches 72 degrees above room temperature then the volatile state of the product becomes a very aggressive vapor gas. If this be the case...then 12% of that little jar was death waiting to happen. My friend believes that if this particular jar was found in the fire, its most likely it was used to keep a fire going, because of its oily content, but eventually over time will kill someone from inhaling it! If this be the case...the castaways could have died in their sleep from this while the campfire was going on! As for other things to start a fire...might have been the ole caveman style of stick and a stone. Which I highly not seeing in this situation, unless you're Tom Hanks and "Wilson". Speaking of Wilson...anyone find any packages on the island of interest? Just a thought!!! Anyway, speaking from experience, I believe that whoever started the fires, had several variables to work with. My question for those who have been to the island and the site itself...is what was the reasoning behind so many campfire pits? You would think over time if you had that many, that eventually you would run out of wood or something to keep them going? That is something that has me baffled for quite sometime! Anyway, wanted to bring this up and hear from those of you who have been to the island!!!! Thanks!!!
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Simply put there is no evidence which allows the camp fires or a single camp fire to be safely assigned to Earhart or Noonan. The island was occupied from 1939 to 1965 by the PISS settlers and also was the site of a USCG LORAN station as well from 1944 to 1946. There was accordingly a great deal of human activity on the island and therefore probable contamination of that area by many people - the number of camp fires could simply be the result of multiple barbecues etc. over the period. Also while the number of camp fire hearths is known what appears to be unknown is the number of times each was reused. As the main food available fish etc. remains the same throughout the period then that also adds another level of complexity to the puzzle.
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For those coasties that had played a special part of the expedition of the seventh site, and had done many archeological digs at the site...did anyone by chance take measurements of the depth of the fire pit or fire pits? Really, interested in knowing what kind of depth was left after the campfires were used.
Several years ago, I helped out with a dig at Fort Hays in Hays, Kansas. This was George Custer's last post before he made a major error that cost him his life. Anyway, as we were doing our grid digs around the wellhouse, we noticed bits of shale coming from the sublayer of dirt. After digging down bout 4-6 inches more we found several layers of shale and came to the conclusion that there were two different time periods at the fort. One was during Custer's reign and then the other was after the fort closed up. Anyway, our main objective was to find out how long the fort was there by using the walkpath around the well as a guide. The walk path was formed for many paths, by the ladies cooking and cooling their food at the well. Eventually, over time the walk path became bigger, and then bigger. It goes on to show you that they never wasted what they want!
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Randy
My understanding ( from another thread) is that ground in the seven site is coral rubble, no real topsoil, material tends to sift up and down depending on size, weather disturbance, crab activity etc. Therefore there is not consistent, identifiable stata for archeological purposes making a useful analysis like you allude to very difficult. Someone with direct experience can correct me on this.
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Simply put there is no evidence which allows the camp fires or a single camp fire to be safely assigned to Earhart or Noonan. The island was occupied from 1939 to 1965 by the PISS settlers and also was the site of a USCG LORAN station as well from 1944 to 1946. There was accordingly a great deal of human activity on the island and therefore probable contamination of that area by many people - the number of camp fires could simply be the result of multiple barbecues etc. over the period. Also while the number of camp fire hearths is known what appears to be unknown is the number of times each was reused. As the main food available fish etc. remains the same throughout the period then that also adds another level of complexity to the puzzle.
Hey, fellow 'searchers'........another wild thought entered my mind after reading this. Our birgus latros friends.....if push came to shove......and fish and birds temporarily unobtainable, could she
/they have bludgeoned a few of these critters for sustenance?? Resident experts, weigh in.
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Hey, fellow 'searchers'........another wild thought entered my mind after reading this. Our birgus latros friends.....if push came to shove......and fish and birds temporarily unobtainable, could she
/they have bludgeoned a few of these critters for sustenance?? Resident experts, weigh in.
No reason why not - after all they are just another crustacean. Going on their intrusiveness I know that if I had been on the island I would have bludgeoned more than one or two just for self protection. :D
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"Gotta love crab. In the nick of time too. I couldn't take much more of those coconuts. Coconut milk is a natural laxative. That's something Gilligan never told us"
Noland
If the inverting eye piece was used to start fires, the fires may be spread out because that is where the sun was at the time. The fire spot located where the body would be in the shade of a big tree but close enough to the edge of the shade so the eypiece was in the sun to start the fire.
I think the ointment pot was a good choice for scooping water out of small recesses due to the shape of the opening and its small size.
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Hey, fellow 'searchers'........another wild thought entered my mind after reading this. Our birgus latros friends.....if push came to shove......and fish and birds temporarily unobtainable, could she/they have bludgeoned a few of these critters for sustenance?? Resident experts, weigh in.
If I recall correctly, there is mention in someone's journal (Gallagher, I believe...but won't say for sure) about the colonials being quite ecstatic when they first arrived and saw the coconut crabs....later running off to find some for cooking. Therefore...clearly they are edible.
No doubt that 'if push came to shove' I'm sure the idea would, at the very least, occur. (Get hungry enough and you'll be willing to eat the south end of a northbound skunk!)
tb
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"Gotta love crab. In the nick of time too. I couldn't take much more of those coconuts. Coconut milk is a natural laxative. That's something Gilligan never told us"
Noland
If the inverting eye piece was used to start fires, the fires may be spread out because that is where the sun was at the time. The fire spot located where the body would be in the shade of a big tree but close enough to the edge of the shade so the eypiece was in the sun to start the fire.
I think the ointment pot was a good choice for scooping water out of small recesses due to the shape of the opening and its small size.
O.K. try this analogy. You are tired, exhausted, thirsty. Yesterday you spent a lot of your energy digging a fire pit and building a fire. Today you want to light another fire and you can't find your book of matches so you go out looking for them. After a while you find your book of matches about a hundred meters away from your laboriously dug fire pit. Do you (a) dig another fire pit where you found the book of matches or do you (b) carry the book of matches back to your original fire pit and use the matches to light a fire there?
IF the local trees shaded your fire pit so that you couldn't use the lens to ignite the tinder in the fire pit why wouldn't you just carry a bit of the tinder out into the sunny area, light it there with the lens, and then carry it back to the fire pit and get the barbeque going?
If you have an answer for that one then how long would it take a person of normal intelligence to figure out where to build a second fire pit so as to avoid the shade problem in the future? Why would they ever need more than two fire pits?
gl
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Gary,
are they fire pits? My take is that they are just fires on the coral rubble surface (but prove me wrong).
If they wern't fire pits then the creation and use of them would be far less bothersome.
I thought they were more than just scorched marks on the ground, but even if that were true, why would you need more than just two?
gl
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Why would they ever need more than two fire pits?
gl
I am not sure where you are getting the pits from. Since they found bottles in the fire feature they could have been used to boil water. Therefore, if that is the reason for the fire, then only one fire at a time is needed.
They could be spread out because while the castaway was boiling the water and/or cooking, they wanted to be in the shade while doing so. To do this and still get the eyepiece in the sun they would have to pick a spot where the sun was at that time in relation to the shade of the tree. Again you could have more than one fire location because the sun moves.
Similar reasoning could apply even if you are not using the eyepiece. In the morning you set your fire in the west side of your shade tree so you can be in the shade. In the evening you set your fire on the east side so you can be in the shade. In the middle of the day closer to the trunk, and late or early in the day farther away from the trunk.
Time of year would determine if you are more north or south of the tree.
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I thought they were more than just scorched marks on the ground, but even if that were true, why would you need more than just two?
I think you are right Gary, I thought I read here that there were ten or eleven, and that they were arranged in a circle pattern, likely to keep the Coconut crabs at bay during the night. I suppose that is why they needed more than two.
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I honestly don't understand the discussion of how, where and why they made fire on Niku. People have been making fire since the dawn of mankind. A simple rock, a stick and a bit of tinder, whether in the Sunlight, under an overcast sky or under the shade of a tree gets it done. The controlled use of fire was an invention of the Early Stone Age (http://archaeology.about.com/od/ancientdailylife/qt/fire_control.htm). Certainly they could have used a lens from and instrument but that was not their only option.
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There were no "fire pits." We've never used that term. We didn't see anything that looked like a hole dug to contain a fire. There would be no need to do that. We noted as a "fire feature" any place where we found charcoal or ash, but not every "fire feature" was necessarily a campfire. A burning stick laid on the ground to discourage crabs might leave charcoal behind that we would catalog as a "fire features." We actually have only a few areas where there is enough charcoal and ash to suggest an actual campfire and some of those may be due to later activity. Only two of the "fire features" are probable campfires that are associated with artifacts and bird/fish bones that suggest use by a western castaway.
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Wow - very good lesson in archeology, Malcolm. Those are great points and give me much to think about.
Thanks Jeff - I'm basically a prehistoric archaeologist so the archaeology of the various occupations of Nikumaroro fall within something I understand all too well. Those sorts of sites are the hardest things to understand if you are trying to pinpoint one particular event. That is why I am forever "demanding" ;D clear provenance as proof rather than hopeful association. The whole occupation time frame is so small and the material culture so similar that in lieu of an aircraft wreck (obviously we await further news) clear provenance is the only acceptable answer - anything less will not close the case.
In archaeology there are a great many "possibles" and "might bes" but that is simply the archaeologist admitting that because of limited material remains then any conclusions drawn can't be certain unless the specific case is so good as to allow it. With the Earhart case a conclusion that is based on what is currently the evidence from Nikumaroro is just not going to satisfy any reasonable professional opinion. It might satisfy optimists without a background in assessing material remains but that is not what I would imagine TIGHAR wants - I imagine they want case proved.
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Malcolm
Say's, Any conclusions drawn can't be certain unless the specific case is so good as to allow it
So how do you define "So good as to allow it"
Without no plane and no passport's
What irrefutable evidence is acceptable in the world of archaeology, When you have no aircraft an no bodies ?
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Is there a aerial view map available of seven site fire feature's ?
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Is there a aerial view map available of seven site fire feature's ?
Not yet.
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Would be interesting to view aerial map of fire features,
To see if it was possible the castaway's was trying to burn their way through scavalova, Or whether they were chopping through it an burning the piles as they went instead of carrying it to a designated area which would conserve energy.
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Ric...With these "fire features" as you call them...and they were in a circular pattern....Is it possible that the castaway used this to tell the time of day. I know it may sound crazy...and like Gary...trying to invision why you would want to have that many fire features to cook with...unless like he said you were trying to stay out of the sun and stay in the shade.
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To see if it was possible the castaway's was trying to burn their way through scavalova, Or whether they were chopping through it an burning the piles as they went instead of carrying it to a designated area which would conserve energy.
There was no scaevola on the site in 1937. Back then it was open forest.
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Malcolm
Say's, Any conclusions drawn can't be certain unless the specific case is so good as to allow it
So how do you define "So good as to allow it"
Without no plane and no passport's
What irrefutable evidence is acceptable in the world of archaeology, When you have no aircraft an no bodies ?
Well in this case given the problem that there is no real cultural differences in the material assemblage on the island, i.e. basically all are what you would expect from a mix of European influenced Islander debris and straight Western origin, then you would have to have something with 100% provenance to the missing fliers.
To date all the material evidence that TIGHAR have advanced to support their case lacks that crucial direct attribution and that is why there is so much debate and the lack of resolution. If TIGHAR comes up with something from the videos that requires the same level of reconstruction as the Bevington object to make a case then clearly that will not be accepted as anything more than a possible demonstration that their hypothesis is correct. It will be in the same category as the reassessment of the skeletal data which we know did not meet uniform acceptance, or the various attempts to link some artifacts like the freckle ointment jar to Earhart etc. The simple reason for this judgement is that second party reconstructions and possible attributions are not primary evidence - they are at best informed guesses.
Now I may be wrong but I doubt that after 23 years or so TIGHAR want the same state of limbo to continue anymore than anyone else interested in the fate of Earhart and Noonan. But if the video shows what is clearly and unmistakably an engine or some major structural component of the Electra then that is the answer right there - clear and indisputable. Or, failing that, the next trip finds some directly attributable artifact or skeletal material on the island then that also is the answer to the question. However if they don't find either then the puzzle remains - I don't think after all this time and effort that TIGHAR wants that because ultimately time and natural decay will eventually remove any evidence that remains, wherever it may be.
The debates over the various hypotheses are just that, debates. The search itself is not a race because only one outcome is possible which is finding the Electra and it can only be in one place - wherever that is. It can't be on New Britain, Nikumaroro, the bottom of the Pacific, the Gilberts or anywhere else all at the same time. It is somewhere, so whoever finds it hasn't won a race, they've just found the wreck and cleared up the puzzle. So if TIGHAR doesn't find it and someone else does then the object of the search is achieved and that is what anyone interested in the question wants to see. But if it is reduced to the banality of an argument of TIGHAR against the rest then that is nothing more than farce.
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Ric...With these "fire features" as you call them...and they were in a circular pattern....Is it possible that the castaway used this to tell the time of day. I know it may sound crazy...and like Gary...trying to invision why you would want to have that many fire features to cook with...unless like he said you were trying to stay out of the sun and stay in the shade.
You can do that with a stick stuck in the ground - its called a sundial.
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According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season the southern winter starts on july 3rd could the fire feature's represent position of sun over tree line in the following weeks ?
I.E lets say 12 fire features = 12 weeks, is this possible ?
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Ritchie, there is an overhead photo of the seven site taken with a kite in the Niku VI reports. I recall one that had the fire feature locations marked but can't find it now
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The fires may have been set at night so time of year and position in relation to the sun can not be determined based on wanting to be in the shade.
That the fires may have been used to boil water could mean the water was collected in the daylight but it is also just an assumption that the water was boiled in the daylight too. I thought about looking at time of year based on location of the fires but that process has too many variables, unknowns, assumptions, and lack of data.
edit:The sundial reminded me of a story I read about Greg Boyington when he was a prisoner of war. I think it went like this.
One of the American prisoners made a sundial and the Japanese guard asked him what it was for. The POW said it was to tell time using the sun by looking at where the shadow falls. The guard asked him how do you tell time at night. The POW said he uses a flashlight. The guard said ok and walked away. Later after the guard realized he was made fun of, he came back and beat the POW.
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Hey, fellow 'searchers'........another wild thought entered my mind after reading this. Our birgus latros friends.....if push came to shove......and fish and birds temporarily unobtainable, could she/they have bludgeoned a few of these critters for sustenance?? Resident experts, weigh in.
If I recall correctly, there is mention in someone's journal (Gallagher, I believe...but won't say for sure) about the colonials being quite ecstatic when they first arrived and saw the coconut crabs....later running off to find some for cooking. Therefore...clearly they are edible.
No doubt that 'if push came to shove' I'm sure the idea would, at the very least, occur. (Get hungry enough and you'll be willing to eat the south end of a northbound skunk!)
I believe you're thinking about Maude's discussion of Gardner from his Of Islands and Men. As coincidence would have it, I just read it last night. Here are a couple of the passages of interest related to what you are probably referring: nb. bracketed interpolations are mine.
re Gardner's fauna:
p.324: ...and Gardner [has] some of the largest coconut, or robber, crabs in the Pacific.
Scouting out the islands:
p327: We arrived at this atoll [Gardner] on 13 October and tied up to the wreck of the Norwich City, near the main lagoon entrance. I remember stepping out of the canoe into shallow water on the edge of the reef with a feeling of pride at being the first to land on this remote shore for many years; but this was soon cured by a young lagoon shark, which knocked me over in its pursuit of a school of fish. The lagoon and shore waters of Gardner teemed with fish, like those of all uninhabited coral islands, and in the hold of the Norwich City they were swimming around by the thousands: the officers of the Nimanoa [the boat that brought them there] used to shoot them by torchlight with revolvers. ... I shall always remember that first night in the Phoenix Islands. We lay in a circle under the shade of the giant buka trees by the lagoon, ringed by fire as a protection against the giant robber crabs, who stalked about in the hhalf-light or hung to the branches starringbalefully at us. [he includes the foot note: The islanders called Gardner by the appropriate name of Mota Aonga (the island of coconut crabs).] Birds were everywhere and for the most part quite tame, and the noise they made until well into the night was deafening. Unfortunately for them, both the crabs and birds were very good eating and we gorged ourselves on a diet of crabs, boobies and fish. Until I stopped them, the delegates would walk up to the boobies, seize them by the neck and crack them like a whip before roasting them on one of the fires. The fish were so plentiful and unaccustomed to man that they were literally scooped out of the water by hand.
arrival of colonists:
p.334: After five days at sea we reached Gardner, and slept our first night under a large tarpaulin, ringed by fires as before. Those who slept at all, that is, for the majority were too excited ny novel sights and sounds, and spent the night feasting on the robber crabs and boobies.
Water on Gardner:
p336: [returning to gardner on way back to Gilberts after leaving "pioneer" parties on islands] Here we found dire trouble among the ten men left here: the well water was considered undrinkable, one condensing plant had burnt out and they were afraid the other would go too. They demanded to be taken home forthwith. Argument appeared useless and we had a final and sad meeting prio to departure , in which I happened to mention how sorry I was at the turn of events as I was returningto the Gilberts to bring their wives back with me on the next ship. The effect was instantaneous and ludicrous. "wives did you say? said their spokesman. "Why, the water here is not so bad, afterall. We're staying on.
re poisonous fish:
p.337: The main trouble of the sydney settlers appeared to have been fish-poisoning, and most of them had been down with it for varying periods. On coral islands certain of the reef fish tend to be poisonous for portions of the year, the types of fish and times during which they are poisonous changing from island to island. In the Gilberts, of course, these periods are well known to the local inhabiyants, but when they reached the Phoenix they had to learn afresh by bitter experience what fish could be eaten and when.
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Ritchie, there is an overhead photo of the seven site taken with a kite in the Niku VI reports. I recall one that had the fire feature locations marked but can't find it now
Is this the image you mean http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Expeditions/NikuVI/Niku6overview.html
(http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Expeditions/NikuVI/7siteKAP.jpg)
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In correalation with the freckle cream ointment jar, the fires, and the bones of birds, turtles, and fish...did anyone run a test on the bones to see if mercury was present? With reading bout the potentional of fish poisoning...makes me wonder if there wasn't another culprit...as in mercury poisoning!
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Richie
This might be a better overhead - Similar photo with the features identified. The two main fire features are the SL and the WR units.
(http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Expeditions/NikuVI/dailiespics/SevenSiteUnits.jpg)
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Expeditions/NikuVI/dailiespics/SevenSiteUnits.jpg (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Expeditions/NikuVI/dailiespics/SevenSiteUnits.jpg)
This photo is from Niku V in 2007, not Niku VI in 2010. It was posted on the Niku VI page as an example of the work there that was expected to be completed. We greatly expanded the site in 2010 from what you see in this photo.
Andrew
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Thanks Andrew :)
Quick Question, The line of tree's from 3-SL to 5
Were they left in place because of the root's ? Or not to contaminate area of interest
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I keep hearing "well there has to be something attached to AE because of all the artifacts, fire pits, ect being in ONE location"
Excuse my ignorance, but has the island been searched from end to end? Or did TIGHAR pick a likely spot and start looking?
Because if it's the latter, all this debris could be located there, simply because that is where they are looking, right?
The island could be loaded with debris, if you look in another spot and clear off some brush you might find 10 more "fire pits" and old bottles.
But lets say the castaways did pick the 7th site as their hangout. I will tell you a small story- I used to go all night fishing at an island located in the middle of a large lake in Florida. It was hell to get to. Nobody lived on it, there wasn't electricity within 5 miles, but inevitably when we showed up there was another pile of ashes, some beer bottles, junk. If fish exist, rest assured a fisherman will find them. (see notes about the abundance of fish easily caught on Niku). When me and my brother would start a fire we never used one of the existing burn pits, they were full of ashes and the ashes were inevitably wet, so placing dry fat lighter wood(to start the twigs on fire), on top of wet ashes didn't make sense, the wet ashes would make the bottom of our pile wet.. It was easier and faster to clear off a new round sandy area and pile up some sticks. Water percolates through sand very fast, a squall on top of an existing pile of ashes makes for a black wet mess.
No big mystery there. They had plenty of sandy spots to start fires, why use a wet one?
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Excuse my ignorance, but has the island been searched from end to end? Or did TIGHAR pick a likely spot and start looking?
The island has not been searched from end to end. That would take years. We do, however, have a great deal of documented information about the island's history - who did what where - and we have sampled many sites around the island, enough to be able to say with great confidence that the Seven Site is truly unique.
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Excuse my ignorance ...
You can remedy ignorance by reading.
Here are some articles that describe the progress of TIGHAR's research (http://tighar.org/wiki/Earhart_Project#TIGHAR_Research).
Here is an article that describes various methods of informing yourself (http://tighar.org/news/help/82-how-do-i-search-tigharorg) from material readily available on TIGHAR's website.
Here is an article specifically about the Seven Site (http://tighar.org/wiki/Seven_site), along with links to other articles.
... but has the island been searched from end to end?
That depends on how you define "search."
Some parts of the island have been searched more intensively than others.
... if you look in another spot and clear off some brush you might find 10 more "fire pits" and old bottles.
Sure. If you have the funds to pay for clearing the "brush" (http://tighar.org/wiki/Scaevola) all over the island, that would be an excellent method of answering the question of how unique the Seven Site is.
No big mystery there. They had plenty of sandy spots to start fires, why use a wet one?
It's an interesting theory. Note that the ground is coral rubble mixed with leaf detritus. The principle may still apply.
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I wanted to add another consideration for artifacts found on Pacific islands and trust me I researched this time before spouting off...did not find anything.
In Dec 2000 I went with a fellow pilot to Midway island to retrieve 2 F-16s stranded there. While waiting for MX to fix the airplanes we went over to the Eastern Island with the Wildlife foundation folks who were doing a bird count of Goonies. While there the biologist pointed out multiple carcasses that were full of debris (cigarette lighters, chem lights, bobbers, and in some cases small containers). Seems the larger birds ingest these items either thinking they are food or mere interest. Usually they were brightly colored or flashy. They cannot pass the items, although he said they often pass them on to their young when feeding them by regurgitation, so they accumulate and eventually kill the bird. I would say we saw hundreds of those carcasses on that little island alone. Just another way stuff can get to an island, not a value judgement on any TIGHAR artifact on my part.
More in line with what I said earlier and many others have said. The search, mystery, and debate will not be over when specific identifiable artifacts are found. I followed the search for the USS Grunion (WWII Sub) and the debate about how she was lost still rages on today long after she was found.
I think TIGHAR is on the right track, doing the right things, and I eagerly await further news.
TWW
JB
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Just another way stuff can get to an island, not a value judgement on any TIGHAR artifact on my part.
I wonder how many bright shiny things may have been removed from the Seven Site in this manner - wrist watch, belt buckle, coins, etc.
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Great point. And your experiment with the crabs proves their potential to move/remove items. Also the human inhabitants also certainly had the ability to find and move or remove items as well. Makes the challenge very difficult. Did the shoe parts you found come to that location by our principles depositing them there, one of the later human inhabitants found them and moved them there, or they were in a suitcase that floated ashore there? A difficult archaeological problem for sure. Far more promise in airplane parts but that will still leave many questions unanswered, maybe forever.
JB
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I wonder how many bright shiny things may have been removed from the Seven Site in this manner - wrist watch, belt buckle, coins, etc.
Ah, THAT is THE great wonderment, imagining how readily and how many(?) others MAY have passed by this one place...and naturally removed any and all items of value.
I believe, to an item, all artifacts found at the 7-site are in the distinct category of "detritus"? I suspect that when it comes to bright shiny objects, Humans would be more disciminate than crabs.
And also THE great consternation, for if only ONE of the items (particularly like the first two) you name, Ric, were found...ANYwhere on the island...
...perhaps something still awaits nearby? perhaps at "Camp Zero"?
In any case, it fires the imagination.
LTM,
dp