TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on July 15, 2012, 09:57:20 AM
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At the time I am composing this post, there are 16,258 Posts in 721 Topics by 728 Members.
That is a lot of posts and a lot of topics. They aren't all worth reading, although I have, in fact, read them all at least once. I've contributed a large number of posts myself that aren't worth reading; they made sense or seemed apposite at the time, but are now nothing but chaff.
I have recently recruited some "Global Moderators" whom I have asked to experiment with winnowing the Forum so as to make it a better resource for newcomers. I have the feeling that we may be able to create FAQs (see, for example, "FAQ: Itasca smoke signal" (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,795.0.html)) which would contain required reading. Any new threads on such a FAQed topic will be closed and locked with prejudice, since they will indicate that the questioner failed to do a rudimentary search to discover what has been posted so far on that topic.
"There are no stupid questions"--but it is not a sign of great intelligence to ask the same old question that has been answered a dozen times in the Forum already.
This experiment may not work. Perhaps it is in the nature of venues like this to wander around in circles endlessly. It may not be humanly possible to disentangle FAQ material from its original context and make it fit coherently in a new summary thread.
You can help.
- Please don't start a new topic unless you're sure it's a new topic. Spend some time searching to see whether some other extant thread might serve your purposes--or even answer your question for you!
- Please suggest topics that deserve to be FAQed, with links (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,127.0.html) to the threads that contain potential FAQ material.
A discussion group with no discussions is no fun (don't ask me how I know). But a discussion group in which the signal-to-noise ratio deteriorates is no fun, either.
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Marty---for what its worth, I too think its a good idea. We need members, and member that dont want to get into other discussions, but rather discuss the subject at hand.
Good for you!
Tom
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Are the FAQ's going to get their own section or will they just appear in the topics that they were first posted in? If the latter and they are made 'stickey' to the top then they could clutter up the top of the topic area, just my opinion :)
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Are the FAQ's going to get their own section ...
No.
... or will they just appear in the topics that they were first posted in? If the latter and they are made 'stickey' to the top then they could clutter up the top of the topic area, just my opinion :)
Most will remain in their original topics, if they are the correct topic.
They will not be sticky.
Eventually, I may make an Announcement with links to all the FAQs on the website, including those in the Forum.
That's down the road.
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Marty,
I agree completely with your concept. I took your admonishment to heart and ceased/desisted till digging deeper and I have found,as you said, much of the ground I was replowing. You were too kind to call it spamming but essentially seems I was not really adding anything substantially new to the debate. For that I appologize. Feel free to consolidate or eliminate my posts as you see fit without fear of hurting my feelings.
But as a new guy I do have two suggestions that may not entail as much work and would have better helped me day one on the site. First ask new members to go post their intro. (old members need to do this too). Saves all the credentials swapping as people try to figure out who has what credibility. Then direct them to a "read this first" page which summarizes the major lines of debate and includes your info on searching the site. It may seem a little Nazi but you may potentially make site acceptance be contingent on those two actions.
It was, and is, daunting to try to find and digest the volume of data here as a newcomer. That does not absolve me of the responsibility of doing so before jumping in with my two big feet, one of which was in my mouth. I can't spend as much time as I would like so I will amuse myself with the effort and stop flying the same 157/337 heading till I run out of gas.
I will keep watching for good news from KoK and hope for a wonderful Discovery program in the future.
Regards to all as the world still wonders,
JB
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Great idea Marty. I have spent several months reading through the items in the Forum and I still don't have them all digested. I plan on going through them all again soon.
I have read only a small part of the vast amount of other information here and don't know how to even start to sort it all out. So far I have found parts of it by researching items of interest using "Search TIGHAR".
So much to do, so little time. :(
Keep up the good work. :)
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... seems I was not really adding anything substantially new to the debate. For that I apologize.
No blood, no foul.
We're all learning as we go along. :)
But as a new guy I do have two suggestions that may not entail as much work and would have better helped me day one on the site. First ask new members to go post their intro. (old members need to do this too).
I won't make that a rule. We have 700+ members. Let those who want to introduce themselves do so. Let those who want to be more private be more private.
Then direct them to a "read this first" page which summarizes the major lines of debate and includes your info on searching the site. It may seem a little Nazi but you may potentially make site acceptance be contingent on those two actions.
Why don't you start a thread in the FAQ area entitled "Welcome to the Forum!" Write up what you think newcomers need to hear on arrival (with some links). If it turns out well, we can pin the topic; if it doesn't turn out well, we can start over. ::)
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Is it just me or do the new forum “rules” regarding topics that are deemed flogged to death seem stifling and a block on open discussion?
I’m a member of many divers forums from Rock Music to Football (Soccer) to IT related to education and none of these larger in member forums impose such a policy. Members new and old are free to restart discussions no matter how much they may have been discussed in the past, prompting open talk and new ideas.
What I object to is statements such as “I see no reason to run in circles on this topic any longer. This topic will now be closed and if someone has any new verifiable details to offer, contact an admin or mod.”
You see no reason but what about others who do?
This makes me wonder what level of poster do I need to be to initiate fresh discussion or instigate a new topic? Do I need a doctorate or other such qualification? What credentials does the moderator have to be able to say that a topic is closed until new and starter ling “smoking” evidence is available?
I don’t own this forum in any sense apart from being an active and interested member (the life blood of a forum) who wishes to learn and expand his knowledge whilst passing on anything he feels that is useful to other members. I don’t want to cross swords or beat my own drum, I just want to participate in as democratic environment as possible.
After a sleepless night thinking about this I appear to have only two options, lump it or leave. I don’t want to leave as this would be small minded so will have to lump it.
This situation kind of reminds me of the old forum when it was decided that only TIGHAR members could contribute. I don’t feel that this is going to happen on this one though.
Note:
This is solely my opinion based on how I feel and doesn’t involve any fancy academic ideas, principles or philosophies. I don’t expect change unless my minority becomes a majority but as a democracy? I am stating my opinion.
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Is it just me or do the new forum “rules” regarding topics that are deemed flogged to death seem stifling and a block on open discussion?
It's not just you.
I think more active moderation in any forum does tend to reduce discussion.
Members new and old are free to restart discussions no matter how much they may have been discussed in the past, prompting open talk and new ideas.
Where the only point of a Forum is discussion, that certainly does no harm.
Perhaps that should be the only point of this Forum. I'm open to being persuaded on that score.
The alternative view is that the discussions here can turn up information that is worth having. If so, freewheeling, repetitive discussions tend to bury those treasures--especially if I turn on the purge routine, which would simply throw away posts older than a certain threshold.
What I object to is statements such as “I see no reason to run in circles on this topic any longer. This topic will now be closed and if someone has any new verifiable details to offer, contact an admin or mod.”
You see no reason but what about others who do?
They can ask for the topic to be re-opened--if they have some new information.
This would not be new information: "I agree with Gary" or "I agree with Andrew."
This makes me wonder what level of poster do I need to be to initiate fresh discussion or instigate a new topic? Do I need a doctorate or other such qualification?
You need to be a registered member of the Forum.
If it is a new topic, it will be allowed to follow its course.
If it is a rehash of an old topic, it should get merged with the old thread.
What credentials does the moderator have to be able to say that a topic is closed until new and starter ling “smoking” evidence is available?
It's a judgment call. There is no Ph.D. in moderation. People learn how to moderate by moderating.
This is solely my opinion based on how I feel and doesn’t involve any fancy academic ideas, principles or philosophies. I don’t expect change unless my minority becomes a majority but as a democracy? I am stating my opinion.
The Forum isn't set up to be a democracy. It is a service provided to those who wish to register to use it by TIGHAR.
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The Forum isn't set up to be a democracy. It is a service provided to those who wish to register to use it by TIGHAR.
Props, Marty, well upheld! I've thought that this is a key requisite oft misunderstood that all of us are here ONLY at the discretion of TIGHAR. That's as it should be.
with appreciation,
dp
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Noted, I don't agree but i'm not going either :)
Still seems awful stiffled to me at the moment.
Maybe Democracy was the wrong word to use but we get a degree of freedome to post before 'censorship' and are/were fairly free to have some discussion.
Still maintain that many forums alow regurgitation of threads as they get older threads drift or get buried but if you feel that you can maintain a series of FAQ's that newbies etc can be led to drink from then fine.
On a plus note the new sub catogories help ;D
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Jeff, I generally like the changes that are being made but moving things around has caused one problem. When a topic is locked or moved it shows activity which moves it to the top of the topic list. This means items that have not been addressed for quite some time are now at the top which makes it harder to find topics that have been more recently addressed. I don't know if anything can be done about it. Just thought I would point it out.
Keep up the good work. :)
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Great! Thanks. ;)
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Jeff. Iam trying to get a message over to Monty how do I do that? I am asking how many monitors we have on this site?
Ted Campbell
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Can anyone tell me how the book Finding Amelia is? I love the book Amelia Earhart's Shoes, I have read it twice. I am finishing up the second time as we speak. Is Finding Amelia as good as Amelia Earhart's Shoes or better.?
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I believe 'Finding Amelia' (http://tighar.org/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=64) can be had through the 'company store' here at TIGHAR (http://tighar.org/store/) - and I for one hold it as a terrific read, well worth the specialty item price, IMO. Ric is a thorough researcher and excellent writer who recounts things-past in an easy and fascinating way to follow, as I see it.
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Can anyone tell me how the book Finding Amelia is? I love the book Amelia Earhart's Shoes, I have read it twice. I am finishing up the second time as we speak. Is Finding Amelia as good as Amelia Earhart's Shoes or better.?
Matt, I've read all 3 (including Dr. King's based-on-fact novel Thirteen Bones), and so the first thing to note is that they represent three very different genres.
The quartet of King, Jacobson, Burns, & Spading turned out a very entertaining book with Amelia Earhart's Shoes. The reader gets a nice all-encompassing review of the facts about Amelia's flight, the history of Nikumaroro, and the ongoing TIGHAR saga of testing the Nikumaroro Hypothesis. I can't wait for the next revision that picks up where the updated edition left off (in 2004). Like you, I pick up Shoes periodically and enjoy it again and again. It's light reading, even though it's so full of facts. King and his co-authors have produced a work that easily captivates anyone looking into the mystery of the disappearance of Amelia and Fred. The authors sure know how to entertain their readers.
Dr. King's Thirteen Bones is, as I said, a novel, which allows him to incorporate fictional characters and events surrounding the colonization of Nikumaroro not many months after the disappearance of Amelia and Fred. But it's all blended so well with known facts that the person steeped in those facts can have a good time nodding the head and acknowledging that, "Yup, it could have happened that way." But I'd reserve reading that until after tucking into both Shoes and Finding Amelia, ideally multiple times each -- and reading reams of Earhart Forum postings from over the past 15+ years -- above all, be able to always remember that Thirteen Bones is a work of fiction, cleverly written by Tom King.
Finding Amelia is a fine historical telling of the facts of Amelia and Fred's stories and the planning and execution of the two World Flights. Then there follows a thoroughly well-researched telling of the facts of all aspects of the search that began when they failed to arrive at Howland Island on July 2, 1937: details about USCGC Itasca; the aerial search of the Phoenix Islands by the aviators flying off the battleship USS Colorado, led by Lieutenant Lambrecht; and, the following search by the planes off the aircraft carrier USS Lexington. The details about the radio signals are laid out in detail, including the story about Betty's Notebook and other instances of people who said they heard Amelia calling for help. What you will not find is the plethora of detail about Nikumaroro that you'll find in the other two books. In that sense, the title can be misleading, since the bulk of it is about Amelia and Fred going missing, followed by the intense search for them that took place in 1937. I'm sure that the next companion volume will lay out in similar detail the latter day efforts of TIGHAR to test the Nikumaroro Hypothesis over the past 25+ years. Ric Gillespie (assisted well by his wife, Patricia Thrasher, I'm sure) is a first-rate writer of history. And if you're lucky, your hardcover copy of Finding Amelia will contain the DVD with lots of important documents, such as the deck log of USS Colorado.
So there are the three genres: Amelia Earhart's Shoes is light reading of the story of Amelia and Fred, with emphasis on TIGHAR's years of expeditions; Thirteen Bones is an enlightened fictional account of colonial life on Nikumaroro, written by a man with impeccable academic credentials to do so; and Finding Amelia is a very enjoyable but serious historical accounting of the story of the loss of Amelia and Fred and the 1937 search for them.
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Can anyone tell me how the book Finding Amelia is? I love the book Amelia Earhart's Shoes, I have read it twice. I am finishing up the second time as we speak. Is Finding Amelia as good as Amelia Earhart's Shoes or better.?
Finding Amelia is a very different sort of book than Amelia Earhart's Shoes. FA is a history book. Shoes is Tom King's personal take on the early years of the Earhart Project. You might also enjoy his novel "Thirteen Bones."
As to which book is "better," you'll need to form your own opinion.
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Thanks for all of the replies, very good detail about the books. I am just finishing up shoes for the second time. When I finished the first time I kind of thought that I wouldn't want to read another AE book just because I thought the book burnt me out for a while. Which it did and then I started to pick that book up again and before you know it I was reading it a second time. You know I have found things I missed in the first read, a lot of things. I figured I better find a knew book or people in my family are going to start thinking I am strange. I got one of the promotional books of 13 bones on like google books and started reading it. I did notice it was fiction, I kind of started to see where it was going but then stopped for what ever reason. I think summer came along. I really got the wrong impression of that book from the first pages of what they will let you see for free. I figured when I first got the book, that it was interesting and I kind of had a direction I thought I would need the book to go because it is fiction. I'm not such a big fan of fiction. Now that you guys have given your input, I see that, Thirteen Bones was going the direction I thought it should to hold my interest. I just didn't read enough pages, also I think the tryall google book didn't give any help. I seem to remember there was a lot omitted. I do understand why, everyone has to make something for their efforts. I love history, I might try finding Amelia next. One thing is for sure, now that there has been good remarks on all three books, I'll pick up Thirteen Bones again. I really do like the style in which King writes. I'm sure Ric's will be more than satisfactory as well.
When I was a kid no one knew I had ADD. So I never had read a book all of the way though from front to back. I had always been embarrased about this. About 5 years ago the doctor noticed I had symptoms of ADD. They put me on meds and it worked overnight like magic. I could finally read a book like other do and enjoy it. I could never get my mind to imagine along with the book. "Shoes" was the first book that I got to experience this with. Now I am hooked on books. I could never understand as a kid how people got hooked on reading books and now I have finally found out why. I keep going back to shoes because of the fond memories of finally being able to comprehend what I was reading. Now I'm always reading this site and looking for good reading, I really don't even watch videos on the computer anymore, I do more of this sort of thing, thanks to you guys.
Sincerely yours
Matt Barth
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Thanks for all of the replies, very good detail about the books. I am just finishing up shoes for the second time. When I finished the first time I kind of thought that I wouldn't want to read another AE book just because I thought the book burnt me out for a while. Which it did and then I started to pick that book up again and before you know it I was reading it a second time. You know I have found things I missed in the first read, a lot of things. I figured I better find a knew book or people in my family are going to start thinking I am strange. I got one of the promotional books of 13 bones on like google books and started reading it. I did notice it was fiction, I kind of started to see where it was going but then stopped for what ever reason. I think summer came along. I really got the wrong impression of that book from the first pages of what they will let you see for free. I figured when I first got the book, that it was interesting and I kind of had a direction I thought I would need the book to go because it is fiction. I'm not such a big fan of fiction. Now that you guys have given your input, I see that, Thirteen Bones was going the direction I thought it should to hold my interest. I just didn't read enough pages, also I think the tryall google book didn't give any help. I seem to remember there was a lot omitted. I do understand why, everyone has to make something for their efforts. I love history, I might try finding Amelia next. One thing is for sure, now that there has been good remarks on all three books, I'll pick up Thirteen Bones again. I really do like the style in which King writes. I'm sure Ric's will be more than satisfactory as well.
A lot of people are apt to think we who search for Earhart are strange anyway, I'm afraid. :P
When I was a kid no one knew I had ADD. So I never had read a book all of the way though from front to back. I had always been embarrased about this. About 5 years ago the doctor noticed I had symptoms of ADD. They put me on meds and it worked overnight like magic. I could finally read a book like other do and enjoy it. I could never get my mind to imagine along with the book. "Shoes" was the first book that I got to experience this with. Now I am hooked on books. I could never understand as a kid how people got hooked on reading books and now I have finally found out why. I keep going back to shoes because of the fond memories of finally being able to comprehend what I was reading. Now I'm always reading this site and looking for good reading, I really don't even watch videos on the computer anymore, I do more of this sort of thing, thanks to you guys.
Sincerely yours
Matt Barth
Don't be embarrassed - I used to read them from back to front, and just skim the content after fixing on the outcome... still do when I want to know the conclusion and can consider all leading to that to be 'nice to know'... ;)
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My ex wife thought I was strange because I would spend time on this forum. She would make fun of me a lot. She did that with Ham Radio as well. Now my new girlfriend understands, I think. She has listened to me tell the story the best I can. That is why people don't understand is that really the mystery is so big. I have tried so many different ways to tell the story to people who don't understand and I just can't break it down and keep the right points inserted to hold one's interest. I get frustrated because I want someone to sit and speculate with in person about the whole story. I just threw this out there to see if anyone feels the same.
Matt Barth
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I get frustrated because I want someone to sit and speculate with in person about the whole story. I just threw this out there to see if anyone feels the same.
Matt Barth
Only every other day or so, Matt ... this journey towards the truth can take hold of you, sometimes to the exclusion of just about everything else. It's because of what TIGHAR is and how it does things that has made it such a long running, emotionally-gripping saga.
LTM, who is just about ready to move on from dry paint,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 ECSP