TIGHAR

Amelia Earhart Search Forum => Artifact Analysis => Topic started by: Jeffrey Pearce on June 30, 2012, 11:23:18 PM

Title: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on June 30, 2012, 11:23:18 PM
As part of the pre wedding events for my nephew's wedding in Sarasota, Florida, a few years ago, there was a golf outting. My brother had just hit his approach shot onto the green. I was standing just off the green. A large black bird then swooped down onto the green and picked up my brother's ball and carried it up into one of the trees behind the green. We mentioned this to some people working in the pro shop. They told us that is not unusual. Others have lost such things as watches(Rolex) and car keys. Perhaps there could be something of Amelia's in one of the trees on Nikumaroro?

I edited my original post on March 14, 2013, by changing blackbird to black bird.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on July 03, 2012, 07:37:29 PM
As part of the pre wedding events for my nephew's wedding in Sarasota, Florida, a few years ago, there was a golf outting. My brother had just hit his approach shot onto the green. I was standing just off the green. A large blackbird then swooped down onto the green and picked up my brother's ball and carried it up into one of the trees behind the green. We mentioned this to some people working in the pro shop. They told us that is not unusual. Others have lost such things as watches(Rolex) and car keys. Perhaps there could be something of Amelia's in one of the trees on Nikumaroro?

That would be wonderful.

Strange things do happen, I suppose.

But I doubt very much that you will persuade folks who set foot on the island to search every part of every tree.  If there is something that got there by a very strange coincidence, it will probably only be found by an equally strange coincidence.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 03, 2012, 11:31:14 PM
It can get your juices flowing to think that Amelia's watch could be up in one of those trees on Nikumaroro. I'm wondering, if that bird in Sarasota had seen Amelia's watch on the ground on Nikumaroro with Amelia not in the immediate vicinity, I think I know what would have happened next. Onward and upward!
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 06, 2012, 08:13:13 AM
I have learned that the Bowerbird is known for collecting shinny objects, including spoons, possibly to attract a mate. This bird is found in New Guinea and parts of Australia. I have not been able to learn if it is on Nikumaroro.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on July 06, 2012, 08:25:56 AM
I have learned that the Bowerbird is known for collecting shinny objects, including spoons, possibly to attract a mate. This bird is found in New Guinea and parts of Australia. I have not been able to learn if it is on Nikumaroro.

The Ameliapedia is underdeveloped in its treatment of Niku's fauna.  Tom King wrote (http://tighar.org/wiki/Location_and_Geology_of_Nikumaroro#Fauna), "Common bird species include snowy tern (kiakia in I Kiribati), Frigate Birds (Boobie, Gannet), and Red-Tailed Tropic Birds."  That doesn't mean that there are no Bowerbirds, just that if they are present, they seem to be outnumbered by the other species.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 06, 2012, 08:31:23 AM
Thanks, Marty. I'll do more looking. I may try to find something shinny the next time I want to attract Julia.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Chris Johnson on July 06, 2012, 09:46:15 AM
Tough crabs can climb trees it kind of makes sense to hoist stuff off the ground and away from the critters (i love that word).
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Bruce Thomas on July 06, 2012, 10:00:21 AM
Thanks, Marty. I'll do more looking. I may try to find something shinny the next time I want to attract Julia.

Good luck!  I was sitting in front of her in full view, and all that my shiny bald head got from Julia was a copy of her DVD.  :D
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Tom Swearengen on July 06, 2012, 11:22:18 AM
LOL__----Bruce thats funny!!!! I was there!!
tom
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: C.W. Herndon on July 06, 2012, 05:36:54 PM
Thanks, Marty. I'll do more looking. I may try to find something shinny the next time I want to attract Julia.

Good luck!  I was sitting in front of her in full view, and all that my shiny bald head got from Julia was a copy of her DVD.  :D

Does the DVD have pictures?
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 07, 2012, 05:41:55 AM
Late night TV talk needs you badly, Bruce!

The satin Bowerbird finds blue objects, bottle tops were mentioned, to put in its nest. Also shells. Is this bird on Nikumaroro? Blue favorite color of AME? Blue watch would do just fine. Maybe other birds indigenous to Nikumaroro practice thieveory?
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 07, 2012, 08:21:33 PM
Amelia Earhart was flying toward Howland Island through skies that are the home of some champion bird flyers. Some stay aloft for weeks, only going to an island to breed. Some rest on ships for a few hours, then return to the sky.

The Frigatebird is a known thief of other's nest building materials. I have not found much information on the breeding process or information that goes into detail about the lives of the various species on land.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 11, 2012, 07:34:29 AM
The bird population may have been different on Nikumaroro in 1937. The introduction of man to the island might have had some impact although possibly not.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 11, 2012, 07:48:55 AM
It is known, page 377 in East To The Dawn by Susan Butler, that Mrs Earhart was wearing a gray, brown, and blue colored shirt on her trip from Oakland to Hawaii. A Bowerbird would have been interested in the blue.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Malcolm McKay on July 11, 2012, 09:22:14 PM
It is known, page 377 in East To The Dawn by Susan Butler, that Mrs Earhart was wearing a gray, brown, and blue colored shirt on her trip from Oakland to Hawaii. A Bowerbird would have been interested in the blue.

A bowerbird is unlikely as they are restricted to Australia and New Guinea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowerbird
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 12, 2012, 06:51:55 AM
Yes, Malcolm, that is what I also read. I just don't have enough knowledge, personally, to allow me to rule out this bird on Nikumaroro in 1937.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 13, 2012, 07:48:19 AM

There is another aspect to thievery or intimidation and that is the territorial aspect. A bird may be doing whatever it can to protect its territory. An arrival of newcomers to a location that hasn't been visited in quite some time could be troublesome. The longer the newcomers stay the more aggravating the situation may get for the birding community.

Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 14, 2012, 03:47:30 PM
The crow/raven is known to protect its territory in some interesting ways. Steal cigarettes in the Maldive Islands, a woman's ring carried to a rooftop but then amazingly enough returned to the owner. Also take a woman's pair of underwear. Rubber seems to be of interest. Windshield wipers missing from automobiles. Rubber molding around an entire windshield. Rubber radar absorbent material at Naval Air/Weapons Station China Lake, California.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 16, 2012, 10:38:42 PM
I think I should mention this now because, as time passes, it may get more difficult to determine. One way to determine whether or not thievery could have occurred on Nikumaroro is to ask previous residents or visitors to the island if they experienced or heard about such events happening.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on February 10, 2013, 09:10:14 PM
I have made an initial contact of a university that has a very good ornithology department. I am requesting this university's assistance regarding the bird population on Nikumaroro Island in 1937.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on March 08, 2013, 01:27:06 PM
The average lifespan of a palm tree can be up to 150 years. Palm trees on Nikumaroro Island that were living in 1937 can still be standing today. The question is, of the palm trees living on Nikumaroro Island, which ones were living in 1937.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on March 10, 2013, 11:17:28 PM
Several of the very last pictures taken of Amelia show a band on her left wrist. If this is a watch, the watch dial itself is on the inner side of her wrist. If the dial reflects light and this was seen, as it probably would have been, by a bird that has the interest and ability to retrieve the watch, then, the watch may well be somewhere else and possibly much higher in a nearby tree.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: C.W. Herndon on March 11, 2013, 04:02:23 AM
Several of the very last pictures taken of Amelia show a band on her left wrist. If this is a watch, the watch dial itself is on the inner side of her wrist. If the dial reflects light and this was seen, as it probably would have been, by a bird that has the interest and ability to retrieve the watch, then, the watch may well be somewhere else and possibly much higher in a nearby tree.

Jeffrey, that is indeed a watch as shown in the picture below which was found here (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/u?/earhart,516).
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on March 11, 2013, 11:50:22 AM
Thanks very much, Woody. She did wear her watch with the dial on the inside of the wrist. I have been going through some of the other threads and I noticed the remark that things like belt buckles, watches, and buttons, among other things, have not been found. The watches, as I have previously mentioned, along with a belt buckle and buttons could attract a bird's interest. Were these items carried off by the birds?
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on March 12, 2013, 12:09:29 AM
Is there a metal detection device, positioned just above a palm tree or other tree, that will zap the entire tree top with authority? A visual inspection would also be in order.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jimmie Tyler on March 12, 2013, 08:11:12 AM
  It is interesting to think about Mr. Pearce, but the top of a tree 75 years ago would not be the top presently. Exp with palm trees. They constantly de boot themselves and shed growth. I have 70 foot palms on my property. I pick up at least one or two fronds on a daily basis. Coconut palms that are on Niku may not shed as frequently, but tree tops def will change over the years. Have you researched the Buka trees that are on Niku? Wonder what there life span is? Another thing to think about is the weather. I imagine there is alot of natural pruning that occurs on Niku due to the winds.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on March 12, 2013, 04:11:31 PM
Jim, thank you very much. I have done just a little research on the lifespan of the Buka tree. I have not found any information as of yet. There is a Buka forest near the Seven Site. There is another tall tree of a different kind very near the Seven Site. Trees do grow as you mentioned. Does this mean that they eject foreign objects? If so, these objects may be somewhere beneath the tree. Trees of 1937 need to be found. Should these trees be analyzed?
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jimmie Tyler on March 12, 2013, 04:30:50 PM
 Jeffrey, your welcome. I honestly do not know if a foreign object would be ejected from a tree top, due to growth. I have seen where oak trees will grow around and envelop wire fences, and other tree's for that matter. I think I have seen photo's of TIGHAR expedition member's climbing trees on Niku.  :o   I'm still feeling bad for the poor fella that lost his Rolex on the green!!! Yikes!!  ;)
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on March 12, 2013, 05:40:48 PM
Poor fella, indeed! Maybe more than one because I was told "Rolex watches". I'd like to go find those myself. Yes, eject or consume the foreign object. The task of hunting down an artifact taken by a bird could be complicated? I have connections to the current World Hot Air balloon Champion and the current United States Hot Air Balloon Champion. They happen to be brothers! They are from my hometown. I think I can say that a hot air balloon or a gas filled balloon could possibly be utilized to search the treetops. Their mother was awarded the Amelia Earhart Memorial Scholarship and was presented the same, in person, by Muriel Earhart Morrissey.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on March 13, 2013, 08:51:40 AM
Below is an email I just received:

Hi Jeff,

 

I was not here the first time you posed the question.  On reading it this week, I did the requisite quick search on Google to see exactly where we were talking about…this led me to the video  (quite well done, I thought) of the person doing the flyover of the island, giving some history, and then some speculations about the subject which you are addressing below. And I realize that NatGeo has recently explored the topic as well.

 

We don’t have much historical information for birds there.

 

The bird populations in the Phoenix Islands were and are quite healthy due to absence/eradication of ground predators.  I don’t believe Nikumaroro itself harbored or harbors vast colonies, owing to the types of habitat available, but there certainly would have birds in the area at the time who might have been able “steal” things.   The stealing of golf balls in particular seems to be related to their similarity to eggs—It is hard to imagine that the birds would steal all traces of a human castaway—but then there couldn’t have been too much man-made that she (and her navigator?) would have possessed

 

The unending quest for the truth of reality is powerful driver… sorry I can’t offer more than a passing though on the subject

 

Best of Luck,

Marc

 

 

Marc Devokaitis

Public Information Specialist

 

Cornell Lab of Ornithology

159 Sapsucker Woods Rd

Ithaca, NY 14850
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Dave McDaniel on March 13, 2013, 09:08:40 AM
Perhaps a tree shaker such as the ones used in the California walnut orchards should be on the list for the next expedition to Niki. I say this tongue in cheek, but it would be effective. Just make sure you bring along your hard hat! Being bombarded by dozens of falling coconuts could really hurt! - Dave
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeff Lange on March 13, 2013, 10:12:22 AM
I can see the daily post from Niku, " We employed the tree shaker today at the seven site-had to abandon area due to flying crabs!" LOL  :D
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on March 14, 2013, 06:27:01 PM
This is a quote from John Hart's Aug 18, 2012, post:

we went over to the Eastern Island with the Wildlife foundation folks who were doing a bird count of Goonies.  While there the biologist pointed out multiple carcasses that were full of debris (cigarette lighters, chem lights, bobbers, and in some cases small containers).  Seems the larger birds ingest these items either thinking they are food or mere interest.  Usually they were brightly colored or flashy.

Birds have interest! They're not just sitting around sleeping the day away. They're with it.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on March 27, 2013, 10:56:40 PM
This is a picture of an Albatross in the vicinity of Midway Atoll that has ingested garbage from the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.

http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/abatross-midway-atoll-700x372.jpg

ONE THING FOR SURE: DON'T POLLUTE!
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Laura Gridley on June 04, 2013, 05:54:26 PM
Are the trees on the Nikumaroro able to be carved into and if so what is the lifecycle of these trees?
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on June 12, 2013, 02:35:15 PM
A very interesting two part question, Laura. I myself do not have the knowledge required to attempt to answer your question. I also do not know if this has been addressed previously or if trees on Nikumaroro Island have been examined during previous expeditions for the presence of carvings. I have never been on the island myself. Your question deserves a serious review and informed response by those in the know! Thank you.

The lifespan of a palm tree can be 150 years. Trees that were there in 1937 can still be there today. A palm tree may be somewhat hard to carve in?
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on June 12, 2013, 08:59:17 PM
Laura

Somewhere I think we have a report on the trees of Nikumaroro compiled by Josh Gillespie during the 2001 expedition.  Might be on the website, and if not Tom King or Ric surely has it.

There are trees on Nikumaroro capable of being carved, particularly the coconut palms, Kanawa, Buka, and Ren trees.  Most of the trees mentioned are fairly long lived as far as I can tell, so many of the existing mature trees were likely there at the time we're interested in.

In the Old colonial village, there are many palm trees that have foot holds cut into them so that the colonists could easily climb them for the nuts.  Most of the foot holds end about 15 ft up, and the rest of the tree above that has none reflecting the growth since 1963 when the colony was abandoned.

We've looked for carvings on trees, but not found anything that we'd consider a likely candidate for AE or anyone else for that matter.  I suppose there are some carved trees in the old village, but not legible to understand.  I don't recall anything around the 7 site that looked like a carved tree.  I do know that carvings on trees in general get pretty obscured over time as the bark tends to swell and overgrow the areas carved, so after 75 years, I doubt that any 1937 carving would be apparent or readable.

I hope that helps.

Andrew
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Laura Gridley on June 14, 2013, 09:23:23 PM
Thank you Jeff and Andrew for the replies. 

Andrew--very much appreciate that information!  I will go through the archives and see what I can find but of course, over the years, I know these ideas have already been thought by TIGHAR members/researchers so I know I'm not suggesting anything new.  Slim chance to find something carved in a tree so many years later anyway, but glad to hear that people kept eyes out for that sort of thing!
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 24, 2013, 02:17:53 AM
On a recent round of golf, I only do this about twice a year, in the Bradenton-Sarasota area of Florida I noticed after stepping onto the first tee a black colored bird leave the ground in front of the tee and fly up into a palm tree about fifteen feet in front and to the right of the tee.

I am in the Bradenton-Sarasota area now and I have noticed that the coconut palms are producing what appear to be nearly mature coconuts. If AE and Fred could have cracked open a coconut they could have consumed the interior which might have provided some substantial nourishment?
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on July 24, 2013, 08:49:28 AM
Yes, consuming coconuts would have certainly provided some nourishment, and some liquid.

The problem comes with first obtaining the coconut from the tree 15 ft off the ground, then opening it.  If you have ever tried either without the proper tools and technique, it can be extremely challenging and could easily consume more energy and moisture than you might derive from achieving success.

Then there is the issue that coconut milk and meat is pretty rich, and many people react by getting the runs, which would further dehydrate our already depleted castaway.

If you know what you are doing, and have the right tools, it can be easier.  See the video of Niku Richie on youtube.

Andrew
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Christine Schulte on July 24, 2013, 12:37:52 PM
Amelia Earhart was a very good climber. When she attended Columbia University for a brief span in the 1920s, she climbed to the roofs of several builings on campus with her friend, Luise de Schweinitz. There are also several anecdotes about her climbing trees, roofs and anything else as a girl.

However, if she was the castaway, I imagine she must have been in very bad shape by the time she got to the coconut trees.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Dan Swift on July 24, 2013, 01:27:17 PM
I don't think you can cut those coconuts with a pocket knife.  I had to use a hand saw on some of mine when I lived in S. Florida.  Was a lot of work without a device to hold it in.  Lost most of the water, but was putting Rum in it anyway. 
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Greg Daspit on July 24, 2013, 03:10:43 PM
In the Discovery show Naked Castaway (http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/naked-castaway), Ed Stafford punched a hole in the coconuts by banging them on a sharp rock.
He also used a long stick to knock them off the trees. He had no tools or clothing to start off.  He did have an emergency kit just in case, but tried to avoid using it.
He got sick and ended up taking medicine from it.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Gloria Walker Burger on August 31, 2013, 08:24:12 PM
In the Discovery show Naked Castaway (http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/naked-castaway), Ed Stafford punched a hole in the coconuts by banging them on a sharp rock.
He also used a long stick to knock them off the trees.

I've thought this before, but at the time of the Lambrecht flyover AE could've been banging away on a rock with a coconut which prevented her from hearing the planes right away. May have really slowed down her response time in getting out into the open, or in getting to her fire mound ready to light. (That is, of course, if FN was incapacitated by then)
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Greg Daspit on August 31, 2013, 10:49:56 PM
I've thought this before, but at the time of the Lambrecht flyover AE could've been banging away on a rock with a coconut which prevented her from hearing the planes right away. May have really slowed down her response time in getting out into the open, or in getting to her fire mound ready to light. (That is, of course, if FN was incapacitated by then)

You might be interested to read Reply 61 and 62 (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,517.60.html) by Chris Johnson and Albert Durrell regarding coconuts and what Lambrecht wrote.
Also, the shape of the island seems problematic to me for searching. Having an inner shore and an outer shore. The Colorado planes appear to have had time for only a few passes. If AE/FN were inland searching for more coconut trees, perhaps their only source of hydration by then, and happened to hear the planes circling the outer shore, do they go towards the planes?  And on the 2nd pass do the planes search the inner shore? Pick the wrong shore and they could be screened by the trees even if they got to the open while the planes were still at the island.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: John Ousterhout on September 01, 2013, 11:25:22 AM
A while back* I conducted a sort of test of how far away I could hear a Beach B18, and was surprised to discover it couldn't be heard somewhat less than 5 miles away.  Based on that experience I would guess that search planes flying over Gardner would not have been heard further than 5 miles away even if they were known to be there.  Add surf and wind noise and the masking effect of trees, and the expected distance an approaching plane might be heard could shrink to a mile or less.  It's a pretty big island for anyone on foot, and aircraft "zooming" over one part might literally be unheard and unseen by someone on the other part.  The masking effect of trees would also hide any maneuvers made by the aircraft while it was on the "other" side of the island, making it impossible to predict where it might next reappear.
I've also been under an impression that the zooming that elicited "no returning wave" might have been done only over the old village location, further restricting the area where the aircraft could be seen or heard.
These ideas give me the feeling that the search was not thorough enough to reliably spot a person on the ground if that person wasn't in a very convenient spot.

*See reply 477 at Re: The flight plan, magnetic course, headwinds. (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,555.465.html#lastPost)
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on January 12, 2014, 07:23:57 PM
John,

A very impressive and thorough narrative!

Here is something from my own personal experience. I have spent alot of time in a house located along the Braden River in Bradenton, Florida. Appproximately six tenths of a mile north of this house is an east-west trending highway. When the wind is coming from the north one can hear traffic on this highway as if someone turned up the volume. When the wind is coming from the south, particularly, or from some other direction than the north the audio of the traffic on the highway is for all practical purposes non discernible. Perhaps adding to the sound amplification is the fact that there is water immediately north of the house and furthermore the Braden River flows just west of the house and also flows NNW from there to the highway.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on February 18, 2014, 06:30:36 PM
This is the support mechanism for my bird feeder that is in a Magnolia tree. Hopefully you will see that the tree has absorbed some of the wiring(twistems)that I used to attach the bamboo to the Magnolia tree. This is where the branch is attached to the larger trunk. The twistem was wound pretty tightly to the tree. This encouraged the tree to absorb the twistem. If an object was carried to the top of a palm tree and deposited there(where new frons are coming out and thereby increasing the height of the tree over time) by a bird or other creature I believe it could be possible for the object to become mired in that area by succesive growth year after year.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 31, 2014, 01:37:56 PM
The results of my sunday classified newspaper question that was run twice over a three week period is as follows. Absolutely no responses were received. The only thing I can say for sure is that I received no suspicious responses. I think that if similar attempts were made in other newspapers there might be some interesting results?


Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Ric Gillespie on July 31, 2014, 02:16:39 PM
I think that if similar attempts were made in other newspapers there might be some interesting results?

Didn't someone define insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on July 31, 2014, 07:19:13 PM
It's insane only if there is no one living who heard distress calls from AE.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: JNev on August 01, 2014, 08:01:16 AM
This has been... fascinating.  ???
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Dan Swift on August 01, 2014, 08:45:46 AM
What? 
Oh, and it wasn't Einstein who defined insanity...although he gets credit for it.  He said he never said it.
Walter Hagen said it to Bobby Jones in the movie "Stroke of Genius".  And that match was about 1925, so that statement's been around a while......LOL! 
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on August 01, 2014, 10:01:09 AM
Concerning distress calls and the like, what kind of radio did Mrs Klenck's family have and where was it tuned regarding AE's purported distress calls? I plan to use this information for research.



Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 01, 2014, 10:16:15 AM
Concerning distress calls and the like, what kind of radio did Mrs Klenck's family have and where was it tuned regarding AE's purported distress calls? I plan to use this information for research.

The information you're looking for is in Bob Brandenburg's paper Harmony and Power (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/ResearchPapers/Brandenburg/HarmonyandPower.htm).  Unless you're conversant in radio propagation analysis you're getting in over your head.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: JNev on August 01, 2014, 10:36:28 AM
What? 
Oh, and it wasn't Einstein who defined insanity...although he gets credit for it.  He said he never said it.
Walter Hagen said it to Bobby Jones in the movie "Stroke of Genius".  And that match was about 1925, so that statement's been around a while......LOL!

As has the condition, which I have been told bears a 'legal' definition, but no true medical condition, per se.  Apparently whether one is competent or not is a matter of legal function, not whether they are free in sufficient degree from the spectrum of conditions that might interfere with that level of functionality.

---

As to the soup d'jour here, I believe Pearce's intent was to canvass the public such that a person with living recall might be found, as to the Earhart transmissions.  A noble thought, but given that we just lost Betty Klenck Brown - a contemporary and possible (likely, some of us believe) witness, IMHO it seems the odds may be vanishing.

By Ric's comment, I take it that he shares my sentiment to some degree - that such a thing is unlikely to surface at this point in time; hence, repeating the exercise further would not increase the chances of success, at least as some of us see it; were one to feel strongly enough about that lack of prospect then the Hagen-Jones prospect seems to fit (could one rationally expect a different result than that already realized). 

That said, I'd of not bet against Jones taking a second shot...

Mr. Pearce cuts to the obvious, if I interpret it correctly: if we knew no one remains alive who heard the broadcast, then indeed there's no rational way to expect a reply (and one presumably would not waste one's time and money with more ads).  But we don't know that none are alive, do we?  Some are - my dad was a child of 14 and is still with us at 91 (but does not recall having heard Earhart on the radio).

I, and perhaps Ric, seem merely to apply a different standard and expectation than Mr. Pearce: no doubt there are those who lived at the time, but the odds of them now coming forward to report having heard something seem dismally small, hence we might think it pure lunacy to run more ads, were I to state it harshly - which I don't mean.

---

But to return to topic... I wish we could lay our hands on THE radio (an 'above ground' artifact, were it known to exist) Betty used: it would firmly answer a few things, maybe.  An educated guess (or perhaps more than that, depending on your own interpretation) says it probably was a Zenith model 1000Z “Stratosphere.” (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/30_BettyHarmonic/30_Bettyharmonic.html)  "When shown a color photograph of a Zenith 1000Z that had been restored to new condition, Betty positively identified it as the model she had used." 

Or, what Ric just said...
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on August 01, 2014, 11:10:12 AM
Thank you to Ric for his link and to Jeff for his insightful words. I don't plan to work with the electronics myself, but, I plan to give this information to others. I am very sorry to hear the news about Mrs Klenck. I kind of suspected this could be in the offing. My mother was 23 in 1937. Her 1990 model car became unreliable just recently so she had to buy another one. We celebrated her 100th birthday on May 24 of this year.

I just want to find AE as soon as possible. I kind of think I have something in common with her. I try to think of things that could assist in this matter. I know odds are at play in some things, but.

One more question, did anyone in Mrs Klenck's family belong to an organization involved in radio communication?
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Ric Gillespie on August 01, 2014, 12:02:57 PM
One more question, did anyone in Mrs Klenck's family belong to an organization involved in radio communication?

Not that we know of.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on August 04, 2014, 12:15:02 PM
I took these pictures a couple days ago in Florida showing a large Osprey nest in a dead tree about 30 yards from a busy road. It is just an example of man made materials that the birds used in the construction process and, yes, the more prominent materials are blue. The nest is large. My camera is in need of replacement as a sharp focus is hard to obtain.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on August 04, 2014, 02:55:34 PM
These are the photos I referenced in my immediately previous post to this post.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: JNev on August 04, 2014, 06:27:02 PM
Beautiful pictures, Jeffrey P.

Creatures certainly do import what they can find, for sure.  We see that sort of thing around here with various birds, and I've had the very mischief with rats and mice doing it in storage areas over the years.  Nothing is sacred - all material becomes fair game to them - and they'll drag it off anywhere.

As to objects getting caught up in the growth of trees -

We had a local instance of a long lost ring being recovered from a tree that was cut down for a fence row in my home county: a tornado in 1929 destroyed several homes in the west end of our county and a number of people were killed.  One of those was a young lady who was tossed some big distance from her dwelling.  When they found the poor dead girl, her ring was gone from her finger.  Several years ago that same ring was removed from the growth of a hedge-row tree - it had become wedged into the tree somehow and growth overtook it; several decades left it completely concealed until the cutting happened - just fortune that the crew cut as they did.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on August 12, 2014, 01:03:01 PM
Your information about the ring is outstanding. Those that found it could very well have been at a loss to explain it? Is there information about this? I don't suppose that photographs were taken? Is it known where in the tree the ring was consummed?

Jeff P.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: JNev on August 13, 2014, 07:17:49 AM
Thanks, Jeffrey P.

I'll see what I can find in the archives - local library probably has the old article.

I don't recall a picture and am vague as to the details - but got impression that the ring was 'embedded' from being hurled in some fashion (tornado forces are HIGH).  It may be more that it came to rest in the crotch of a branch and ingrew over time.

But it is real - a tragic story, with a bittersweet 'closure' for the family in recovering that ring so many years later.

Here is an abstract that I found on the event (http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.northam.usa.states.georgia.counties.bulloch/1623/mb.ashx?pnt=1), which speaks to the human loss in several counties.  I called it a Bulloch County event, but actually neighboring Candler County is the apparent source of the storm.  There were deaths there and in Bulloch, and at least one other.

Nothing specific in this piece about the ring story - and that was to do with one of the Bulloch County families.  Perhaps you can sniff out a lead from here.  I will try when more able - it is a fascinating story.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Dan Swift on August 14, 2014, 08:47:06 AM
"in my home county" 
Jeff,
I am very familiar with Metter, Cobbtown, Vidalia, Lyons, Portal, Claxton, etc.  I used to have very good customers in Metter. 
Do you know the Petersons....Charles to be exact?  He owned a sewing factory there...Metter Manufacturing.  Gone, as they all are, now. 
Also a Bill Fonderin was plant manager for the Argo factory across the street for a while.  Metter is his home town. 
Georgia and South Carolina were awesome states for apparel textile companies. 
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: JNev on August 14, 2014, 05:28:41 PM
Small world, Dan - how about that.

I knew of Peterson, believe he and my brother were friends years ago.  I can't place Fonderin personally but would bet my brother knew him (lived there many years himself).

I've flown out of there many times over the years and the family still keeps a Cardinal RG at the local airport in Metter.  My dad lives a few miles away just into Bulloch County.  His home property still bears evidence of the tornado I've spoken of (and the lost ring was recovered within a very few miles of his place): some older trees still have branches that were damaged but recovered and grew back at odd angles and with pronounced elbows, etc. 

Strange stuff to see and realize you are gazing at weather history from 1929 (dad was 6 years old when that happened).  His place was an abandoned farm - scrub oak and wiregrass country which was poor for cultivation and grazing, so had been ignored for decades.  When he first got the place and started cleaning it up there was still a great deal of old tortured metal roofing caught and wrapped around tree trunks here and there where it had become stuck and somewhat ingrown in many cases.  It was clear that the tornado was quite an event.
Title: Re: Above ground artifact search?
Post by: Jeffrey Pearce on February 28, 2015, 08:39:11 PM
I took this photograph at a very popular and very crowded restaurant that is IMMEDIATELY adjacent to the Gulf of Mexico on the west coast of central Florida. I took it because I noticed what looked like a plastic cup in the light fixture attached to the top of a pole extending about 25 feet above the restaurant.There is at least one glass pane knocked out of the fixture. This restaurant has undergone renovation recently. If someone put the cup there, presumably one of the renovating workers, why would he do so and why would he leave the cup there knowing that the restaurant is paying his employer's company to work on the restaurant?

There are MANY birds constantly hanging around the restaurant looking for handouts. I think one of these birds is the  responsible party. I have additional photographs of this situation but for some reason was unable to download them.