TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Gary LaPook on March 19, 2012, 11:26:31 PM
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Now we know what Ric has been doing. (http://www.ketknbc.com/news/us-reportedly-to-search-again-for-amelia-earharts-plane)
gl
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see the story in the Wall St Journal
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303812904577291990571497740.html
and State Department webiste
http://www.state.gov/index.htm
Andrew
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The ironic thing about this is that 'Nessie' was under TIGHARS nose for ages!
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The event will be streamed live by the State Department at 9:00 AM EDT from Washingnton, D.C. (http://www.state.gov/index.htm)
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is there a way i can watch the event here in uk an will it be 1pm uk it is on ?
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is there a way i can watch the event here in uk an will it be 1pm uk it is on ?
When I said in my previous post that "the event will be streamed live by the State Department at 9:00 AM EDT from Washingnton, D.C. (http://www.state.gov/index.htm)," what I had hoped to communicate was that people can watch the event on their computers by clicking on the words, "streamed live by the State Department at 9:00 AM EDT from Washingnton, D.C. (http://www.state.gov/index.htm)," at 9:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time.
If you happen not to live in the Eastern time zone for the United States, you need to do a time zone calculation (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?month=3&day=20&year=2012&hour=9&min=0&sec=0&p1=422&p2=136) to find out when the event will be streaming live on the internet. If you are in the same time zone as London, yes, it will be 1:00 PM. If you are in the time zone east or west of London, it will be 2:00 PM or 12 noon.
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thx marty :)
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"The State Department said it is "working closely" with Mr. Ballard in what will be a sophisticated sonar search."
So Ballard is getting involved. Am I wrong in sensing that this isn't necessarily a good thing? There's a lot of personality to deal with there.
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I had the pleaseure of meeting Dr. Ballard once and found him to be very personable and down to earth. He didn't come across as having any type of ego at all. Just someone who truly loves the ocean and discovering the secrets that it holds. The only part of this that I am not thrilled about is the anti-climatic feeling that the discovery/recovery of conclusive proof will bring. Kind of like when you are a kid and have opened the last present on Christmas morning. You may have gotten something really neat, but there is still a let down feeling that it's over. The good part of this is that once this mystery is resolved and TIGHAR's theory and methodology proven sound, it might be easier to fund other searches. What's next? LTM, who loves to plan ahead. -John
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Saw news on front page of MSN this morning..
Well atleast couple high place people in this field appear to think all the hard work all of you all done over the years has been correct. Or atleast your theory is the best one out there..
Hey I think this worth a good thank's to all of you invested your money and time into this effort..
LTM
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The live press conference is over. A replay of the video feed (http://video.state.gov/) is supposed to become available eventually.
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Congratulations Ric, what a coup! I got up very early to watch the presentation. Good luck, I hope you find the plane.
Gary LaPook
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well done Tighar, excellent work yet again by Ric an Co :)
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I take some time off from the forums for a few day's and you go and do this!
Good Job guys!
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Two tidbits from the press conference via Fox News (http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-photo-may-be-key-to-finding-what-happened-to-aviator-amelia-earhart-20120320,0,3293075.story):
1. "On July 2, 75 years to the day after Earhart was last heard from, Gillespie will depart Honolulu on a University of Hawaii research vessel to try to find that plane in the deep waters off a flat reef on Nikumaroro."
I believe that the ship is the Ka`imikai-o-Kanaloa, (http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/technology/vessels/kok/kok.html) affectionately and thankfully known to English speakers as the "KoK." More details from U of H (http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/UMC/RVKOK.htm) on the KoK.
2. The privately funded effort will use robotic submarines from Phoenix International, the U.S. Navy (http://www.fox43.com/topic/unrest-conflicts-war/defense/u.s.-navy-ORGOV0000126141144.topic)'s primary contractor for deep ocean search and recovery, to comb the area. The Discovery Channel (http://www.fox43.com/topic/economy-business-finance/media-industry/television-industry/discovery-communications-inc.-ORCRP0000017176.topic) will film the exploration for a TV presentation, Gillespie said.
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What great news!! Great to hear Nessie turned out to be the real thing. Let me know if any of y'all make it out to the Pacific Aviation Museum while you're on Oahu - they have a little Amelia exhibit there and it would be great to get to meet some of the TIGHARs in person. ;D
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For those who missed the live event, the video and transcript of Clinton's remarks from the Press Conference are available from the State Department (http://video.state.gov/en/top-stories/video/1520686068001/event-celebrating-amelia-earhart-and-the-united-states-ties-to-our-pacific-neighbors/s%7EcreationDate/p%7E1/).
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sure bombed the site out for a while.
Love the video and fantastik news
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sure bombed the site out for a while.
Yes, it did.
Sorry about that.
Everything was fine around 11:20 AM, when I left to proctor an exam for my Tuesday-Thursday course. By the time I reached the classroom across the street and got the computer running there, the Forum had collapsed. I was able to hack out the "leave me alone" message using VI and SSH while I was in the classroom. When I got home, I authorized the quadrupling of our resources. That wasn't enough. I also had to tweak the number of servers allowed by Apache. Things seem back to normal for me now. I imagine we may get more hits after the evening news. We may need another tweak if things bog down again.
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more interest, more members, more debate and more money?
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The most frequently asked question today is, "What was the picture that kindled interest in the new expedition?"
- "The Nessie Hypothesis" (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/58_NessieHypothesis/58_NessieHypothesis.htm)
- "Hiding in Plain Sight" (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/57_Bevingtonphoto/57_HidinginSight.htm)
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Marty, Any chance of seeing the enhanced version of the photo that stirred up so much excitement? I know what I thought I saw in the original. I would love to see the enhanced. LTM -John
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Ric
Kudos to you and all the TIGHARS. An excellent job of getting the search to the attention of people that can help in the right areas.
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" . . . fair winds, and a following sea, and a little luck!"
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Any chance of seeing the enhanced version of the photo that stirred up so much excitement? I know what I thought I saw in the original. I would love to see the enhanced.
I don't have anything better than what appears in the two research reports.
Even if I did happen to have a higher-resolution picture, I wouldn't put it up without Ric and Pat's permission. They may have all kinds of contractual obligations that they have to meet.
Ric and Pat have a very full plate today, as I'm sure you can imagine. I expect that they will do a full writeup on the proposed expedition. If all goes well, the ship will depart for Niku on July 2nd.
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i think the pic we caught glimpse of in today's announcement, is same resolution pic, as in the link to nessie that Marty posted earlier,
it's no clearer higher resolution than what were seeing standard size :)
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Congratulations on the new search effort. This is going to be an interesting summer and I cannot wait to see the side-scan sonar data. If the Electra is there, I cannot imagine how this high-tech autonomous sub could miss it. It is going to be a real nail biter.
Will we have to wait until the documentary is out before we know the answer as to whether something was located?
As to the analysis of Nessie, I would also be very interested to see higher resolution copies of they exist. I had the impression that Ric had taking photos of a photo while visiting the guy who originally snapped the shot. Putting the original photo under a high resolution scanner might yield better results. Just for kicks I have attached a couple images where I attempted to enhance the Nessie image using adaptive equalization that can bring out details where they are not readily apparent. It sure would be interesting to see what the State Department was viewing for their blind study that declared this to be from a 1937 Electra.
I would also like to pose the question that will be asked sooner or later. What happens if the Electra is not found around Niku? Will TIGHAR remain convinced of the presence of AE and FN on Niku and continue the search on land? Would there perhaps be a reconsideration of the Niku theory? I suppose that one could suggest that once the Electra cleared the reef, it could have floating for many miles before sinking.
Thanks.
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Will we have to wait until the documentary is out before we know the answer as to whether something was located?
Time will tell. We won't be told the details of Discovery's contract with TIGHAR; if I were writing a non-disclosure contract, one of the things that I would not want disclosed is the fine print in the contract itself.
As to the analysis of Nessie, I would also be very interested to see higher resolution copies of they exist. I had the impression that Ric had taking photos of a photo while visiting the guy who originally snapped the shot. Putting the original photo under a high resolution scanner might yield better results. Just for kicks I have attached a couple images where I attempted to enhance the Nessie image using adaptive equalization that can bring out details where they are not readily apparent. It sure would be interesting to see what the State Department was viewing for their blind study that declared this to be from a 1937 Electra.
In the press conference (http://video.state.gov/), Ric gave the impression that Jeff Glickman was working from a negative. I haven't replayed the video, so I'm relying on my memory and may be mistaken. It may have been a negative derived from a print rather than the original negative.
I would also like to pose the question that will be asked sooner or later. What happens if the Electra is not found around Niku? Will TIGHAR remain convinced of the presence of AE and FN on Niku and continue the search on land? Would there perhaps be a reconsideration of the Niku theory? I suppose that one could suggest that once the Electra cleared the reef, it could have floating for many miles before sinking.
Proving some kinds of negatives is notoriously difficult. Determining the meaning of an apparently negative result from this search will have to wait until this search is complete. Then we may be able to choose from among the various alternatives:
- The negative result shows that the aircraft never was on Niku.
- The negative result shows that the search didn't cover enough ground.
- The negative result shows that the aircraft was pulverized into aluminum sand (a hypothesis suggested years ago by Howard Alldred, may he rest in peace).
- The negative result only shows that the aircraft was not in the area searched.
- The negative result shows that any aircraft remains in the area were too small to be identified by the technology used.
- etc.
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I have been following Tighar's 'search' for Amelia since I unfortunately had time three years ago when I became unemployed for the first time in my life. And I WOULD be a member....and will be as soon as I can get back on my feet.
This news is so exciting!!
Way to go Tighar!!! Way to go Ric and company!
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My congratulations to TIGHAR and to Ric. How you could keep a straight face for the past several months is beyond me! Your credibility is off the chart as far as I'm concerned. I dont know how you were able to convince State, and Bob Ballard to climb aboard, but I think I can speak for alot of members and say thank you. You and TIGHAR took a major step forward with this announcement. When parts of the Electra ARE found, and brought home, it may be resources from Bobs group, or Unvi of Hawaii, or something else, but its the TIGHAR team that will get the credit.
I'm proud of you my friend----see you in DC!
Tom
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Well said Tom!
This is Ric and Tighar's deal for sure...not to be denied.
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And I am laughing to myself ... no, heck, I'm laughing out loud!
Not at TIGHAR, this is a fantastic coup and I think it could really be the "tipping point," as it were, that finally gives us that "any idiot artifact" that all the detractors keep demanding.
I'm laughing at a couple of the comments in the Wall Street Journal article ... he's in there ... yep, our buddy H.A.C. Van Asten makes a rather lengthy appearance. He just can't let it go ...
LTM, who doesn't have any letting go "issues,"
Monty Fowler,
TIGHAR No. 2189 CER
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Marty do u know if any of the rov video still's have been used in any evidence provided ?
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Marty do u know if any of the rov video still's have been used in any evidence provided ?
No, I don't know.
The information on the website and in the Forum is available to the public.
Some folks from the State Department or other government agencies may have browsed here--or they may not have.
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:) congratulations! Excellent news! I have just signed up as a member. I am glad to contribute!
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Marty do u know if any of the rov video still's have been used in any evidence provided ?
Richie I was wondering the same thing today. I am amazed at some of the things you posted, great work. Thanks! 8)
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Congratulations to Tighar for this high level recognition of all the outstanding work done over the last couple of decades!
Just watched the press conference, and have a couple of questions:
As I understand it from what was said, Ballard's involvement was and is limited to acting as independant verifier of the Nikumaroro Hypothesis on behalf of the State Department, and he will not be involved in the actual expedition - is this correct?
Secondly, Ballard mentioned that the State Department photo analysts identified 'Nessie' as possibly being the undercarriage of a 1937 Lockheed Electra on the basis of a blind study. How blind was this exactly? Were they given the photo with the simple question of identifying the object, or were they asked to give their opinion on whether or not the object was consistent with the undercarriage of an Electra?
In any case, I am looking forward to seeing the results of the coming expedition, and hoping (as many here are, I wager) that we will be able to follow some of the progress through this forum as it happens!
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Bessel,
Bob Ballard said he'd be in the Black Sea during the Niku expedition. He's been there before looking at wrecks and evidence of the biblical flood (Noah)
As for your other question i'd like to know how they approached the identification aspect of the photo.
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Bessel,
Bob Ballard said he'd be in the Black Sea during the Niku expedition. He's been there before looking at wrecks and evidence of the biblical flood (Noah)
As for your other question i'd like to know how they approached the identification aspect of the photo.
True, he did say that, but it would appear that he is also not providing any technological or logistical support from his (probably) huge support organisation - leaving it all in the capable hands of Tighar!
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Jeff--very well said. As for the other question on whether Ballards team would provide more direct support or more of a consulting gig---I look at it like this. I'll bet that when images of the electra start showing up in video from the submirsibles, Bob Ballard will be close by. If there is another, more experienced, deep-dive explorer on the planet, let me know. The fat that Ric was able to put this incredible package together is mind blowing. You would think that only some one sitting in an oval office could make this happen. Gee Ric---naa bad idea--keep seaching for Amelia.
Hopefully many more details will be availible in DC at the symposium.
I'll guess that Ric didnt get much sleep last nite!!!!
Great job my friend-
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I've been out of town but not out of touch about these latest developments. I was finally able to watch the press conference last night and what an incredible event it was! Kudos to all who have supported the search (and continue to do so) and especially to Ric, Pat and other key Tighars for their perseverance. Coworkers and friends of mine have commented on this latest turn of events; maybe now some have a greater insight into why we are so intrigued by the mystery and the science behind our quest. Congrats all the way around, especially to Ric, et al, for their tireless efforts!
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What a thrilling development! Congratulations to the TIGHAR team responsible. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that we are on the brink of the resolution of a decades-long mystery and closure for AE's and FN's family and friends, not to mention a nation and the world.
My wife got a big promotion at work, and once her new paychecks start rolling in, I'm sending in my membership to TIGHAR. It's amazing to be even aware of the people pushing this search through to its inevitable conclusion, To be a member of the organization will be even moreso. Can't wait.
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Re: Jeff Neville's discussion of the conference transcipts -- the transcripts I found must have just been part of the conference. Would you please post links to the ones you read?
Also, it would sure be interesting to see a Research Bulletin about the Photek/State Department analysis. That might help tide me over until the real search begins.......................
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I don't know about transcripts, but you can watch the whole thing by going to video.state.gov http://video.state.gov/ (http://video.state.gov/) and looking for Earhart.
Right now it is still one of the top videos shown on the landing page, but you can search by name as well.
Andrew
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Way to go Ric. Good hunting!!!
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Re: Jeff Neville's discussion of the conference transcipts -- the transcripts I found must have just been part of the conference. Would you please post links to the ones you read?
So far as I know, the State Department transcript (http://video.state.gov/en/top-stories/video/1520686068001/event-celebrating-amelia-earhart-and-the-united-states-ties-to-our-pacific-neighbors/s%7EcreationDate/p%7E1/) only contains Hillary Clinton's opening speech. But the video on that page shows the whole event.
Also, it would sure be interesting to see a Research Bulletin about the Photek/State Department analysis. That might help tide me over until the real search begins.......................
Ric and Pat are the authors of most such Research Bulletins. They are preoccupied at the moment with other things. I imagine that they will try to get out at least one TIGHAR Tracks before the Symposium in June. That is where they are most likely to discuss the new analysis of the photo.
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Here is a little different look at the enhanced photo that Mr. Smith posted. I have not enhanced it any further but I have super over-exposed it. This was done using Microsoft Office Picture Manager. To achieve this, brightness was increased by +50%, contrast increased by +100% and midtones were decreased by -100%. No other alterations to the photo were made. They are best veiwed at a zoom of +400% to +800%.
Just out of curiosity, I applied the same effects to both the Brevington and Nessie photos found in " Hiding in plain sight " dtd: 12 apr 2010. Although the results were simular, they did not produce quite the detail as Mr. Smith's photo nor was I able to enhance them to the level that he was able to. I would love to see the level of enhancement that the the State Department was able to obtain!
LTM,
Dave
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yes it's hard to get clear image of nessie due to picture resolution ::)
even the over head image, i have of Nessie is bad due to resolution
so in process of enhancing :)
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Here is a little different look at the enhanced photo that Mr. Smith posted. I have not enhanced it any further but I have super over-exposed it. This was done using Microsoft Office Picture Manager. To achieve this, brightness was increased by +50%, contrast increased by +100% and midtones were decreased by -100%. No other alterations to the photo were made. They are best veiwed at a zoom of +400% to +800%.
Just out of curiosity, I applied the same effects to both the Brevington and Nessie photos found in " Hiding in plain sight " dtd: 12 apr 2010. Although the results were simular, they did not produce quite the detail as Mr. Smith's photo nor was I able to enhance them to the level that he was able to. I would love to see the level of enhancement that the the State Department was able to obtain!
LTM,
Dave
It look like another Rorschach blot to me, I see horsies and a rainbow, what do you see?
gl
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Hi Dave. I have to agree with Gary on this enhanced picture. Can you outline or highlight what you are seeing?
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I gotta agree with you, it is very abstract looking! And I apolize for not being more specific in my earlier post. The method here is to washout all back-scatter except for the the item in question. I left the most prominet back ground in to give a sense of scale to the landing gear, which is in the foreground or bottom of the picture. Gone are the surf, beach and reef. This over-exposure technique was something I learned while attending The Naval Postgraduate School's Aviation Safety Officer crs. back in the 80's.
What I see are components consistent to that of a main landing gear. Of note specificly is the large ballon tire with a rather small wheel hub assy. attached to what appears to be a pretty much intact landing gear strut assy. Due to the over-exposure some of the detail of the upper portion of the strut was washed out. Not enough resolution.
I am posting a cropped picture that only shows the item in question. It is best viewed using a magnification of 200% - 800%
BTW if anyone finds any psychological or artistic value to the pictures by all means use them to every advantage! LOL!
LTM,
Dave
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I see both a landing gear stut and a key hole.
:P
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Dave---I have to admit I'm probably not the one best to speak of this, since my brain is clouded by what I want to see. But---the top certainly resembles the trunnion pivot point, and the bottom the big Goodyear turf tire. I think after seeing the picture that was taken and initially posted here some of us walked the plank and said it looked like a gear strut. Looks to me that most everyone agrees that it is worth investigating.
HUM------I wonder (aloud) if the stills that Richie and Jeff processed from the ROV video were of THIS strut? We wont know that until the submirsibles go down, find it, plot the GPS location, and we can corrolate that location with the picture. Any bets?
Tom
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Dave---I have to admit I'm probably not the one best to speak of this, since my brain is clouded by what I want to see. But---the top certainly resembles the trunnion pivot point, and the bottom the big Goodyear turf tire. I think after seeing the picture that was taken and initially posted here some of us walked the plank and said it looked like a gear strut. Looks to me that most everyone agrees that it is worth investigating.
HUM------I wonder (aloud) if the stills that Richie and Jeff processed from the ROV video were of THIS strut? We wont know that until the submirsibles go down, find it, plot the GPS location, and we can corrolate that location with the picture. Any bets?
Tom
Tom u have seen what we have been able to do,
to enhance Rov still's, so u can imagine the detail i have been able to achieve of Nessie
However as Marty stated if Ric an Co have terms to keep too, due to upcoming trip then nothink we can do :(
what i would give to be on the Trip :D
erm
the wife
kids
dog's
only kiddin :)
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Tom- Sorry but I'm not familiar with the particular ROV picture you are referring to. I tried to keep up with the thread but after the first fifty or so pages it kind'a got away from me. If you want to refrence a page I would be more than happy to check it out.
My guess is, if this is in fact a landing gear with tire attached, which it appears to be, it would not stray far from the piont in the original picture. It is obviously being held in place by something, most likely the reef. Sand could do it but there seems to be alot of tire showing so I doubt it. Also the picture shows the strut standing upright. Seems kind'a strange since the trunnion is attached to a fortified area of the airframe. Given the elastitivity of rubber and the applied energy of force it would take to tear the landing gear away from the airframe. landing gears are not designed to take excessive torsional stress, I would expect see something different. I will say this: the bouncy of a landing gear is some what less than that of a manhole cover. Even though it would have compressed air and oil in the oleo, it would not make a differnce. While the tire may or may not have been torn from the rim it would surely be saturated over time. Another thing that is not discernable from the photos is the scissors linkage. Since the gear seems to be intact at the time the photo was taken it's reasonable to assume that it was, at least in part. However, it or the hardware attaching it would be the weakest parts of the assy., even as tough as they are. When found it may not be in one peice.
IMHO, if it is the landing gear, it will be found not far from where the picture was taken. At what debth I couldn't say. If the reef has as steep a dropoff as I have gathered from the information on this site over the years, I would say very deep. Think large anchor!
LTM,
Dave
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Dave---here are the pics I was talking about. First is Richies's still from the ROV video showing a potential submerged gear strut. 2nd---a 10E gear froma crash site in Idaho--I think-shows clearly how its made. 3rd-Richie & Jeff's enhanced pis of the submerged target. 4Th--pic of AE next to the landing gear.
I thought the same thing about being near where Nessie's location was. But what made me rethink that theory was the large steel parts of the Norwich City that have been redeposited on the reef and beach from wave and tidal action. The parts are pretty large and weigh alot more than a gear strut. These are shown in the helicopter video of the island. So, imagine a gear strut, or some other parts of the Electra now being tossed around by currents. Literally they could be anywhere, but the ROV video, and Richies still show a pretty good location. I suspect the the ROV crews on this expedition have a pretty good place to look. Its there---I can feel it
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Been away from the net for a while and the first I saw of this was a release that I just read from Flying Magazine:
http://www.flyingmag.com/pilots-places/pilots-adventures-more/state-department-joins-earhart-search#comment-20277
Most of the comments were not factual or nice, so I placed a comment of information that I have mostly learned from TIGHAR and Rick's Book.
I have yet to have a chance to follow any of the links posted in this thread, but look forward to that soon; looks interesting and best of luck with it all.
Art
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Tom - I took alittle time and went over the pictures in your post. Thanks for posting them. As far as the ROV stills go all I can say is that there is definitely a shape there that does not fit. It is angular and does not fit the surounding enviorment. It is simular in shape to the lower half the Electra 10E landing gear. But without a sense of scale it is impossible, for me anyway, to tell if it is an airplane part or a lost anchor. I disregaurded the black rope or whatever it turns out to be as a distraction as it was not aircraft related. However it does appear to be laying under the gear shaped object and that would indicate that it got there first. Or there is another object on top of it that gives the photo this appearance. Without some measurement of scale and much higher resolution it's impossible for me to make a qualified guess. Irregaurdless of scale I do think that, in proportion, a outcrop of that size ( landing gear:outcrop) could snag and support a landing gear before it hit the sea floor.
I tried my best to keep up with Richies' threads but time got the best of me. I commend him on his eye for detail, diligence and determination. This is how things get done.
As far as the landing gear parts being wisked away buy the sea/tidal currents I really don't think that's too much of a concern.
the aero/hydrodynamics of landing gear is pretty much that of a brick. Gravity prevails. Where as large, heavy, flatplate objects tend to pitch, roll and yaw while fighting gravity. And you're absolutely right, they can be displaced greatly given enough altitude or height above sea floor. But landing gear parts and radial engines, they may roll, but only on the way to the bottom. Not alotta drift there!
Which brings me to a place I really didn't want to go. The close proximity of the landing site and the wreck/debris of the Norwich City.
LTM
Dave
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Dave,
don't get hung up about the Norwich City Wreck. Nessie is to the North of the wreck and the prevailing tides flow from North to south so wreckage from the ship would not be moved towards Nessie.
However this dosn't stop wreckage from the electra being mixed with the Norwich City if it remained on the reef edge.
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All
Virtually all of the NC wreckage is to the south of the wreck, within only a few meters, nothing moves to the NW.
We surveyed the reef via SCUBA from where Nessie is seen, following each underwater channel from offshore to the surf line and back, and down to about 60 ft, so I don't think we're going to find it in the shallow water on the reef face.
My guess is that Nessie would have eventually have initially been driven shoreward, and later scavenged, discarded, or washed into the lagoon, or back out to sea, so the odds of finding it are pretty small. The importance is that IF it is a Lockheed Electra landing gear, the rest of the aircraft is not far away, and that "collapses the search box" in the words of Dr. Ballard, into a size that significantly increases the odds of discovery. Every search wishes for a definitive "Last Known Position" from which to work from, and this gives us one that is reasonable to base a search on.
Andrew
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don't get hung up about the Norwich City Wreck. Nessie is to the North of the wreck and the prevailing tides flow from North to south so wreckage from the ship would not be moved towards Nessie.
The movement of air and water over and around an island is complex.
See, for example, the phenomenon of "longshore drift" in the article on the boat channel (http://tighar.org/wiki/The_boat_channel).
Howard Alldred (RIP) theorized that all movable materials would tend to go ashore (as so much trash does) or else move into a "sand river" (my memory of his term--I don't think it's a technical oceanographic term) on the lee side of the island where the two longshore currents would meet and counteract each other.
So far as I know, TIGHAR has not tested this idea about a kind of "drainage system" for underwater debris. If it exists, much of the airframe material may well have been mixed with the remnants of the Norwich City.
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Thanks Pilotart for sharing the link to the Flying Mag article. That may be one of the worst written articles I have read in a while. States "no evidence"...then contridicts himself in the very next paragraph. Bottom line is...there is enough evidence to warrant the search. End of story!
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Agreed Dan! well said
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This statement is on the Tighar Site:
"Following the event at the State Department, Kiribati Secretary Lambourne and TIGHAR’s Ric Gillespie signed an Antiquities Management Agreement that grants TIGHAR an exclusive license and right to search for, study, recover and preserve objects, including plane parts or wreckage, relating to or which tend to suggest the presence of Amelia Earhart and/or Fred Noonan within the territorial boundaries of the Republic of Kiribati."
What does this mean for other future expeditions? Like Waitt or Nauticos or any other future search team that carries out deep ocean searches around Howland island which falls within the boundaries of Kiribati.
Im all for the discovery of Earharts electra but on the grounds of fair competition and discovery surely this could not block any further search outside of Nikumororo by other search parties.
can anyone shed light on this?
Colin Cobb
Titanic's Dock and Pump-House
Titanic Walking Tours
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i think they base the agreements on Kirbati being a protected enviroment,
an i dont think they just deal in given permission to search 1 island so to speak
also waitt have searched the area's were they wanted, so dont see the problem :)
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... an exclusive license and right to search for, study, recover and preserve objects, including plane parts or wreckage, relating to or which tend to suggest the presence of Amelia Earhart and/or Fred Noonan within the territorial boundaries of the Republic of Kiribati."
What does this mean for other future expeditions? Like Waitt or Nauticos or any other future search team that carries out deep ocean searches around Howland island which falls within the boundaries of Kiribati.
Howland and Baker are in the same island chain as Kiribati, but are unincorporated territories of the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Islands) and therefore are not "within the territorial boundaries of the Republic of Kiribati."
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Thanks, that clears that one up.
Colin Cobb
Titanic's Dock and Pump-House
Titanic Walking Tours
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CBS news report of new search. (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50121919n)
gl
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Blimey! Just got back from the middle of nowhere to find that everything has kicked off. Well done guys!!!!!!
You now have the tools to complete the task, good work. You know what to look for and, where it is. Let's hope it's an Electra when you find it. There's a plethora of scrap metal etc... down there, just be careful when you bring it up, it's got to take pride of place in American institutions hopefully.
Tons of work to finish off before retirement due to, they won't let me say, but will get back to the Rover imaging soon.
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Just saw a good account on the AOPA's website:
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2012/120320expedition_seeks_to_recover_earharts_electra.html?WT.mc_id=120323epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
Photos of Rick giving an address and other TIGHAR's as well as the photo in question 'nessie?'
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The Nessie photo that was enhanced is the high resolution one, not the one the public has access to. The high resolution version is strictly copyrighted so, in compliance with the copyright it can't be bandied about willy-nilly.
Full marks to Ric and co though for being able to persuade everyone to muck in based on that photo, I wouldn't have put money on them being able to do it :)
Still, with the clues from the groundwork on the island, the Nessie photo, the ROV footage and the Gilbertese islanders eye witness accounts of airplane wreckage it does look very likely that there is aircraft wreckage at this location. What plane and, who flew it there remains a mystery but, not for much longer methinks.
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The Nessie photo that was enhanced is the high resolution one, not the one the public has access to. The high resolution version is strictly copyrighted so...
By whom if I may ask?
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I tried my best to keep up with Richies' threads but time got the best of me. I commend him on his eye for detail, diligence and determination. This is how things get done.
Dave,
I created a montage out of the image found by Richie that created a all the fuss. I feel the black squigly thing may be oleo strut fluid finally bursting out after all these years.
Here's a link to the orignal thread. Click HERE (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,571.msg8661.html#msg8661), where a very large version of the picuture can be downloaded.
Here's a small thumbnail for the curiosity seekers....
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6694920881_af3ab79ed0_z.jpg)
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The Nessie photo that was enhanced is the high resolution one, not the one the public has access to. The high resolution version is strictly copyrighted so...
By whom if I may ask?
It's the University of Oxford Tim so, understandably it's wise to stay within the copyright boundaries. It's obviously done the trick though being the vehicle which brought in the State Department?
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It's the University of Oxford Tim so, understandably it's wise to stay within the copyright boundaries. It's obviously done the trick though being the vehicle which brought in the State Department?
I believe that the picture was taken by Eric Bevington (http://tighar.org/wiki/Eric_R._Bevington) while he was serving in the British Foreign Service. It may well still be protected under British and/or international copyright law. Better safe than sorry. :-\
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Erik,
Sorry to disappoint, but I have no idea as to how 75 year old strut fliud under pressure would react to salt water. My experience is limited to surface slicks. I suppose it's a posibility. Never rule out anything until it can be proved or disproved.
LTM,
Dave
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Erik, it is interesting how the drawing drops right onto the object, almost as if that is really what it is. I do hope that the object is the strut assembly. Again, scale is an issue. Hopefully, the object will be re-located and maybe recovered later this year and found to be a strut assmbly from AE's Electra. It sure looks like it could be. LTM- who always hated scales- John
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Erik, it is interesting how the drawing drops right onto the object, almost as if that is really what it is. I do hope that the object is the strut assembly. Again, scale is an issue. Hopefully, the object will be re-located and maybe recovered later this year and found to be a strut assmbly from AE's Electra. It sure looks like it could be. LTM- who always hated scales- John
Any plane would be a relief :-\
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The only part of this that I am not thrilled about is the anti-climatic feeling that the discovery/recovery of conclusive proof will bring. Kind of like when you are a kid and have opened the last present on Christmas morning. You may have gotten something really neat, but there is still a let down feeling that it's over. The good part of this is that once this mystery is resolved and TIGHAR's theory and methodology proven sound, it might be easier to fund other searches.
John,
you said exactly what I'm feeling. The MYSTERY was in our minds for such a long time - and soon it's going to be resolved? All presents opened? But there's a hope: That in July there will be found - nothing! (LOL!) ;D
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I tried my best to keep up with Richies' threads but time got the best of me. I commend him on his eye for detail, diligence and determination. This is how things get done.
Dave,
I created a montage out of the image found by Richie that created a all the fuss. I feel the black squigly thing may be oleo strut fluid finally bursting out after all these years.
Here's a link to the orignal thread. Click HERE (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,571.msg8661.html#msg8661), where a very large version of the picuture can be downloaded.
Here's a small thumbnail for the curiosity seekers....
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6694920881_af3ab79ed0_z.jpg)
it was jeff hayden that posted that image an what it appears to be
but hay the scouser always gets blamed first haha ;D
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I agree Jeff, I hope the search can re-locate whatever all this stuff is down here. I'm more curious as to what exactly this black stuff is as opposed to finding an Electra, just kidding.
When we all first started having stabs at what it could be way back we didn't know then how much black squiggly stuff was actually on the plane (if it is THE plane).
Thin strips of rubber as gravel guards on the rear surfaces
Thin strips of rubber to protect the extra fuel tanks from their restraining assemblies
Could be more for all we know.
It's pretty obvious it's a debris field but, of what and who remains a mystery for a while longer.
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Once again I would like to congratulate the team for selling the idea to the state department using the Nessie photo, that was a coup in itself. Maybe a few of the stills from the ROV footage and we could have got God himself to pitch in (or herself) :)
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Have you guys ever seen the movie Spinal Tap where the band is playing and the Stonehenge set is being lowered to the stage, only it is ridiculously small compared to their expectations? The set guy got the scale all wrong.
That is what is going on here, you are the set guy, and your sense of scale is way off. These photos that the ROV took are taken from from say 1-3 ft away from the objects you are looking at. Any farther and the light becomes too diffuse to see. The strut you superimpose, would be maybe 6 inches long instead of the 6 ft you imagine it. If the object were 6 ft, the camera would have to be a good 20 ft away, and at that distance there simply wouldn't be enough light to light up the bottom. I don't know what the wattage of the lamp on the ROV is, but it isn't big enough to light up the bottom of the ocean from 20-30 ft away.
Given random pattern, and no scale, we can see all kinds of stuff in these photos, but I really think it is not a productive enterprise. If there were a real object there, like the rope, we'd recognize it immediately. Trying to find other stuff that is not obvious may be fun, but is similar to seeing bunnies in the clouds, everyone can see one if they look hard enough.
We went through this with images in the lagoon that people thought represented the Electra. We even went to some of the locations just to rule them out, an in every case where someone was sure they could see some sort of object, it wasn't there.
With the upcoming expedition, there will be plenty of images of real stuff to look at - keep in mind the NC wreckage needs to be surveyed to ensure that there isn't an Electra mixed up with that debris, so save your effort for reviewing that footage with a critical eye.
Andrew
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No, I haven't seen the spinal tap movie set of stonehenge Andrew but, I do live only 5 miles from the real stonehenge in Witshire and, it's not as big as people are led to believe, rather disappointing in fact. Still, it brings in the tourists ;) (I don't think that was its original purpose though)
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Trivia injection re spinal tap
The said same problem occured in 1982 when Black Sabbath (with Ian Gillan) ordered a stonehenge type set which was too big for any stages for the supporting tour.
Jeff - Have always loved Avbury (sp) much more than Stonehenge that is much smaller than you imagine.
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Not sure where you got the "instead of the 6 ft you imagine it" from Andrew? At no point ever have I claimed the object to be 6ft. In fact if you compare the image of the wheel being measured with a tape measure and then scale the fork section of the Oleo strut from that the figure is 24 to 36 inches max. The photo with AE next to the landing gear will help you scale the fork section of the strut, if the strut fork was 6ft then that would make AE at least 12 ft tall.
(http://)
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OK, OK, I should have said 3 ft not 6 ft, but my point is that without proper scale, we're just making stuff up out of the ROV images that doesn't exist. I'm not trying to be offensive, or overly critical, it just doesn't seem to be productive in my opinion.
Keep in mind that when the video was obtained, it was being seen by a professional operator and perhaps several others in real time, so if there was something there to investigate, he did it right then. Doesn't mean it isn't possible to miss something, but I would consider his trained eye looking at this stuff to be superior to what's been going on here on the Forum.
Andrew
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ok---I have a suggestion------we all can agree that the scale of the ROV video is creating problems for us. Lets let the new expedition and ROV/submirsible teams find whatever is down there. I certainly hope that we have the origional ROV "area" to start with, along with the other areas. I might be overstepping my bounds, but I think Ric and CO. have done their homework, or the other floks would not be on board. We'll know soon.
Tom
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ok---I have a suggestion------we all can agree that the scale of the ROV video is creating problems for us. Lets let the new expedition and ROV/submirsible teams find whatever is down there. I certainly hope that we have the origional ROV "area" to start with, along with the other areas. I might be overstepping my bounds, but I think Ric and CO. have done their homework, or the other floks would not be on board. We'll know soon.
Tom
i agree Tom
lets just see how the new search goes, an if they find stuff in the area's we have highlighted an that we said was there then sound,
if not i myself, will be glad Tighar got state backing thru nessie photo an not Rov video still's :)
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I'm happy with scale being an issue, who wouldn't be (apart from the state department). The elephant in the room that is being ignored here is this, there's something down there that isn't 'coral' and, unless there was also a model RC aircraft club on Gardner island then, it's something that logically shouldn't be there. Again, if it's parts from the SS norwich City then they were decades ahead of ship construction when they built it in 1911. As for the fishing fleets from Korea and China either they were fishing for the largest sharks in history or the smallest, depending on which bit of wire you want to examine. Plus, they were also the unluckiest fishing fleets in history when all of this junk landed on top of their lines or, they were using lures that resemble methods of airframe construction (what they expected to catch with wheels, aluminium sheets, alloy forks, RDF antenna etc... remains a mystery)
I'm happy to go along with any reasonable and sensible explanation for all this junk but, as yet, I haven't heard one.
On the positive side though Nessie has been confirmed by the 'experts' as being from an aircraft, where's the rest of it?
All of the above is of course IMHO :)
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Trivia injection re spinal tap
The said same problem occured in 1982 when Black Sabbath (with Ian Gillan) ordered a stonehenge type set which was too big for any stages for the supporting tour.
Jeff - Have always loved Avbury (sp) much more than Stonehenge that is much smaller than you imagine.
Me too Chris, the Avebury circle is more spectacular than stonehenge due to the area it covers and, it has a pretty little village INSIDE the stone ring, just goes to show how big it is.
(http://)
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No, I haven't seen the spinal tap movie set of stonehenge Andrew but, I do live only 5 miles from the real stonehenge in Witshire and, it's not as big as people are led to believe, rather disappointing in fact. Still, it brings in the tourists ;) (I don't think that was its original purpose though)
I first visited Stonehenge in 1984, I parked on the side of the road, it was wide open and we just wandered among the stones with no restrictions. It was a quiet place. We were back there in 2009, there is now a large bus parking lot and they won't let you get close. It was disappointing.
gl
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No, I haven't seen the spinal tap movie set of stonehenge Andrew but, I do live only 5 miles from the real stonehenge in Witshire and, it's not as big as people are led to believe, rather disappointing in fact. Still, it brings in the tourists ;) (I don't think that was its original purpose though)
I first visited Stonehenge in 1984, I parked on the side of the road, it was wide open and we just wandered among the stones with no restrictions. It was a quiet place. We were back there in 2009, there is now a large bus parking lot and they won't let you get close. It was disappointing.
gl
Disappointing is an understatement. Every time I visit the place the rain is coming in sideways, as it does on Salisbury plain, the British Armys main training area. They're planning to put a visitor centre 'nearby', about a mile and half away! A fair old yomp for the tourists. Avesbury is much more friendly and impressive, so is the pub.
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The said same problem occured in 1982 when Black Sabbath (with Ian Gillan) ordered a stonehenge type set which was too big for any stages for the supporting tour.
"The Stonhenge Connection--Black Sabbath and Spinal Tap." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVxp58fUNmA) 8)
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Saw that lineup at Reading Festivel 83 when Sabbath did Smoke on the Water as an encore - that did not go down very well at all :D
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Stonehenge is just one part of a very large and complex collection of relegious and habital pre historic sites including Stone and wood henge, Avebury (fantastic place to visit if your over in the UK) and many other archeological sites.
Going back to Garys visit, they had to change the access to stonehenge in the early 80's after damage caused by a number of free festivels were held there (you've got to have seen a most excentric English Band called The Enid playing as the sun come up on the longest day)
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I've been past Stonehenge many-a-time going on vacation and to my brother-in-law's place in Yeovil, but have never stopped.
Nearly rented a cottage inside the Avebury ring one year, but they didn't have a vacancy for the weeks we wanted.
You have to love a de-rail! ;D
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A.E. and F.N. did not land at Gardner, but at STONEHENGE, or did I understand something wrong? :o
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Women and sheep? I just like to cook them (sheep that is!!!!)
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Videos from the press conference available on the TIGHAR YouTube Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/TIGHARchannel?feature=mhee).
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Marty
Is the link to TIGHAR's youtube in some place other than this thread? Like in the Ameliapedia?
My Bad, but I always forget where some important links are when they are in a thread.
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I'm happy to go along with any reasonable and sensible explanation for all this junk but, as yet, I haven't heard one.
On the positive side though Nessie has been confirmed by the 'experts' as being from an aircraft, where's the rest of it?
All of the above is of course IMHO
Pretty much stated this in the ROV topic, but again, I spent a few years diving coral reefs, Andrew has also seen those coral reefs. It is amazing how many right angles, perfect circles, and geometric shapes, you see in those areas that are completely natural. You all spent countless hours going frame by frame on the ROV video and for that I commend you, but other then the wire I saw nothing that stuck out in my mind as anything that is not natural in a coral reef environment. If there was a portion of the object showing through in its true form (i.e., some of the metal) I would give it to you, but I didn't see anything unusual that I had not seen dozens of times before on other coral reefs. Some of the original material would not have been completely covered and showed through just like the cable.
LTM,
Don
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Is the link to TIGHAR's youtube in some place other than this thread? Like in the Ameliapedia?
OK, I've added it to the "Media" category (http://tighar.org/wiki/Category:Media) on the wiki.
Hope that helps.
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"Pretty much stated this in the ROV topic, but again, I spent a few years diving coral reefs, Andrew has also seen those coral reefs. It is amazing how many right angles, perfect circles, and geometric shapes, you see in those areas that are completely natural. You all spent countless hours going frame by frame on the ROV video and for that I commend you, but other then the wire I saw nothing that stuck out in my mind as anything that is not natural in a coral reef environment. If there was a portion of the object showing through in its true form (i.e., some of the metal) I would give it to you, but I didn't see anything unusual that I had not seen dozens of times before on other coral reefs. Some of the original material would not have been completely covered and showed through just like the cable."
Let's hope not Don otherwise this could be the most expensive wild goose chase in history. Time will tell and, if it's not AE's Electra it would be interesting to see what and whose it is. I have the ROV videos on file and, 100+ stills, they can be deleted if it turns out to be coral no problem. Where to search after that scenario though, that would be the next question, any ideas?
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Marty
Thank you.
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Deen.
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Let's hope not Don otherwise this could be the most expensive wild goose chase in history. Time will tell and, if it's not AE's Electra it would be interesting to see what and whose it is. I have the ROV videos on file and, 100+ stills, they can be deleted if it turns out to be coral no problem. Where to search after that scenario though, that would be the next question, any ideas?
You misunderstood what I was trying to say so I will clarify. I totally believe that they will find at least some of the Electra somewhere in the deep and probably very near where they believe it to be. BUT, I dont believe that it slowly slide down the reef face strewing parts as it went. Everything that had a right angle or a concentric circle someone would try to identify it as a particular aircraft part. While diving I have seen shapes that in your minds eye you would say ain't no way that it could be natural, must be something encrusted in coral, and it is a natural formation. IMHO most of what was identified as parts (other then the rope/cable/wire) are most probably natural reef formations. The fact that I do not believe there is a Hansel and Gretal breadcrumb trail in no way negates my belief that on the bottom however deep it may be, sits a few big pieces like the engines and the substructure that will be able to be positively identified as being from AE's 10E.
LTM,
Don
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Don are u telling me the pipe object and grid in circled area, could well be coral ?
my opinion is, its man made but it could well have have come from the Norwich city an not the Electra but it deffo not coral
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I dont believe that it slowly slide down the reef face strewing parts as it went.
Neither do I as stated in the ROV thread. I suggested it was ground up on reef and, the remains scattered down the reef slope.
Everything that had a right angle or a concentric circle someone would try to identify it as a particular aircraft part.
No, not everything just possibly the bits we have been looking into. There are some lovely spectacular bits of coral down there for sure but, not being a diver or expert on coral I'll leave that to the 'experts'.
If it had been a ditch or crash and sink I would expect to see larger bits of wreckage for sure but, that's not the hypothesis in this case. A reef landing is great but, the sand on the beaches used to be solid stone and rock and one time, that's the power of the sea, take a look at the wreck of the SS norwich City. That was built like a brick outhouse, now look at it. The sea and the reef would make short work of airframes (if that's what it is)
Also you must consider the fact that we don't have much to go on in the ROV footage, 3 mins? so, we're trying to make the most of what there is.
Scale, resolution, focus etc are all an issue but, you can only work with what you have. As I pointed out with the Nessie photo, if the original image capture device (camera) didn't capture the detail then, no amount of enhancing will add detail that isn't there.
Only time will tell and, hopefully this fall there will be a definitive yes or no, aircraft remains or no aircraft remains. But one thing is certain, it's a coral reef and, it has coral, but, what else?
All of the above IMHO, not written in stone and, time will tell ;)
Shouldn't this debate be in the ROV footage thread, I'm sure there were similar ones there ?
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We went to see Laurie Anderson at Salisbury Playhouse many years ago. I have always been a great fan of Laurie Anderson, still am, so was pleased when she acknowledged the achievements of AE in song and music. Three pieces, this is the third, it covers the Lae to howland leg of the journey. Probably not accurate but, very moving. Hopefully she might need to add a fourth piece, we shall see.
http://youtu.be/Nn1emsTpWNk (http://youtu.be/Nn1emsTpWNk)
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Jeff,
Excellent stuff - that'll be another afternoon I spend you-tubing! ;D
Try this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xzcOF_JoMw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xzcOF_JoMw), Heather Nova "I Miss My Sky". It has been used on some video (available, on this site, somewhere, I think). Also quite moving.
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Don are u telling me the pipe object and grid in circled area, could well be coral ?
my opinion is, its man made but it could well have have come from the Norwich city an not the Electra but it deffo not coral
Must admit, had not seen that one earlier. Too be honest with you after about 15 pages in that forum I purposely missed quite a few. That one would pique my interest but I would not be at all surprised if it was simply coral. This not the right forum for this, it will be my last comment concerning this. If they find something in those areas that was previously identified by you all, I will eat my words. Like I stated previously, I commend you for the amount of time and effort that you all expended on that but IMHO I just think that you are reaching for the golden ring where it doesn't exist. Lastly, it will be pretty hard to figure whether those things exist in reality anyhow because the GPS was broken and I'm thinking it would probably be quite difficult to find those exact areas again.
LTM,
Don
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Jeff,
Excellent stuff - that'll be another afternoon I spend you-tubing! ;D
Try this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xzcOF_JoMw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xzcOF_JoMw), Heather Nova "I Miss My Sky". It has been used on some video (available, on this site, somewhere, I think). Also quite moving.
Chris, thank's for posting that link it's an astounding piece of songwriting and music. My son graduates this fall, BSc Hons Music classical guitar and is now, thanks to you, a Heather Nova fan. He is now trying to purchase the sheet music for this song at this time. Good stuff Chris!
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Too be honest with you after about 15 pages in that forum I purposely missed quite a few
Don, there's quite a lot of stills in the ROV thread and, lots of posts and wiews. It would probably not be possible to go through everyone in one sitting.
I think the main point of the thread is that there's something there on that coral reef that just doesn't belong there. Be it debris from fishing, LORAN station, colonists, wrecked ships or, just possibly, an airplane. Now, 3 mins of video footage, not much to go on but, enough to give a hint that something isn't as it should be down there. Who knows? well, at the moment, no one. Shame about not having the exact GPS co-ordinates but hopefully the sonar will pick up something that the ROV's will be able to investigate further.
I always tend to think of the glass being half full as opposed to half empty. Tighar have invested a lot of time, money and energy into this project and deserve their just rewards of solving one of the greatest mysteries of our time. I am confident they will find airplane wreckage, can't say which or whose though for sure.
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So sorry folks (don't ban me) but was doing a you tube search ref Stonehenge and a band called "The Enid" who used to do the solstice gigs in the early 80's and they've got some footage
The Enid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXWoaCDbho0)
OK the guy with beard and white pants may look seriously weird but is in fact a fantastic composer and player.
BTW start at about 4.30 mins for the wild thing rendition not the US Protest Song ref the Contras
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My accappella group, the "Lilies of the Alley" used to sing an AE ballad--the one that ends, "Happy landings to you, Amelia Earhart - farewell, first lady of the air!" Trying to remember who wrote it...
"Amelia Earhart's Last Flight" by Red River Dave McEnery.
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I think I have found the true explanation for Nessie, it is Kingsford-Smith's other landing gear.
gl
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;)
Thats some float by the other landing gear to get to Niku
;)
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Are the currents right? ::)
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Kingston-Smith's 'Lady Southern Cross' was a Lockheed Altair. Whatever the currents (caught the tongue-in-cheek ;)) it appears there'd be little similarity to an L10 gear.
Too bad - it would be interesting to at least have a look at the failure mode of that 'found' gear to understand possible failure modes for NR16020 - but I don't think a fair comparison can be drawn. The Altair was a substantial, but lighter, single-engine bird - completely different from the later twin L10 series.
Very interesting story, though and now I'm determined to seek out more about Kingsford-Smith - very interesting man!
LTM -
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Kingston-Smith's 'Lady Southern Cross' was a Lockheed Altair. Whatever the currents (caught the tongue-in-cheek ;)) it appears there'd be little similarity to an L10 gear.
Too bad - it would be interesting to at least have a look at the failure mode of that 'found' gear to understand possible failure modes for NR16020 - but I don't think a fair comparison can be drawn. The Altair was a substantial, but lighter, single-engine bird - completely different from the later twin L10 series.
Very interesting story, though and now I'm determined to seek out more about Kingsford-Smith - very interesting man!
LTM -
There was a stir in the press about finding the rest of the Altair 2 years ago -
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/ive-found-kingsford-smiths-plane-damien-lay/story-e6frg95x-1225913463098
As far as I know nothing came of it - like most of these hunt the missing aviator things, 99% speculation 1% publicity. ;)
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As far as I know nothing came of it - like most of these hunt the missing aviator things, 99% speculation 1% publicity
Not forgetting of course that aviators aren’t the only people or objects that go missing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_disappeared_mysteriously
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_disappeared_mysteriously)
In much of society, research means to investigate something you do not know or understand.
Neil Armstrong
If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?
Albert Einstein
Personally I wouldn’t disagree with the statements these two gentlemen made
considering their achievements.
99% hard work 1% luck
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Believe it can be done. When you believe something can be done, really believe, your mind will find the ways to do it. Believing a solution paves the way to solution.
David Joseph Schwartz
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Personally I have long held that when we sink to motivational generalities all science has gone out of the window. ;)
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nothink is impossible
obviously the apparent radio message in the search for amelia,
the 281 miles north, was meant to be south
an it only takes looking at a map to see that there aint no island 281 north of howland yet there is south of howland
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nothink is impossible
obviously the apparent radio message in the search for amelia,
the 281 miles north, was meant to be south
an it only takes looking at a map to see that there aint no island 281 north of howland yet there is south of howland
Believe it or not a great many things are actually impossible, one of which is the belief that motivational slogans will replace finding hard data. Perhaps on this upcoming trip something a bit more compelling in the hard data department will be found.
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On the up coming trip I am sure something in the hard evidence department will be found. Whether it's AE's Electra is another matter but, it's the remains of someone's plane. Most people are motivated in achieving their goals, that's how they Succeed.
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nothink is impossible
obviously the apparent radio message in the search for amelia,
the 281 miles north, was meant to be south
an it only takes looking at a map to see that there aint no island 281 north of howland yet there is south of howland
Really? What island is 281 miles south of Howland?
gl