TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => Join the search => Topic started by: Sheila Shigley on January 14, 2012, 01:40:44 PM
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Forwarding this:
JL28Moore@aol.com
Sent: Fri, January 13, 2012 11:21:46 PM
Subject: Amelia Earhart Rim
Hi, I'm wondering how would I go about finding information on a rim that was possibly on Amelia Earhart's plane in 1937? It was changed during a stop in Oakland by my great grandfather. I have pictures of it, and it also has a metal plaque with model number and other information such as Hayes Industries Inc. Date Manufactured - 2/8/1937, Model # 1102 A, Static Ld. (max) 5000, A.T.C.# 10.
My name is Jennifer Cheshier
My number is 661-342-3830.
Thank you!
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Rim?? What kind of "rim?" A wheel rim? NR16020 didn't have wheel rims unless she's talking about the wheel itself. "Static Ld. [Load?] (max) 5000 [lbs?]" sounds about right for an Electra wheel. But why would a wheel need to be changed in Oakland?
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Says she has pictures of it! I wanna see 'em!
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Says she has pictures of it! I wanna see 'em!
Check them out here ...
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44071
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Says she has pictures of it! I wanna see 'em!
Check them out here ...
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44071
I don't think that rim shown in the links above are the same diameter as the ones shown on the Electra. Look at the pictures shown in the above link. I believe diameter would be 14" based on second photo showing a 12" ruler not quite making the distance. The link below is from another thread, the ROV stills, and shows an 8" diameter rim.
http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,571.msg8389.html#msg8389 (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,571.msg8389.html#msg8389)
Unless the Electra had a different rim for slimmer tires than the ones she used for the world trip. Could that be why rims were changed? Prep for the world trip?
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It is interesting that there is a serial number along the edge of the wheel. I do a lot of work on old cars and have never seen a serialized wheel. Is that common for aircraft parts and would anyone have recorded the serial numbers on the wheels installed on AE's craft? I don't see where this wheel, if in fact from AE's plane, does much for the search as it would have been removed prior to the flight and we already know the type of wheels she had. It would be an interesting family heirloom and possibly valuable to a collector if it could be documented. LTM- John
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The ruler is lying across what looks to me like an attached brake drum. I can't believe a plane of that size would have an 8 inch brake drum, an 8 inch rim to mount the tire sure, but it's going to be hard to stop with brakes that small. Looking at that photo, it appears that the other side of the assembly has a smaller diameter to it. Did the airwheel rim have an attached brake drum?
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The ruler is lying across what looks to me like an attached brake drum. I can't believe a plane of that size would have an 8 inch brake drum, an 8 inch rim to mount the tire sure, but it's going to be hard to stop with brakes that small. Looking at that photo, it appears that the other side of the assembly has a smaller diameter to it. Did the airwheel rim have an attached brake drum?
If you do a google search on "Lockheed Electra 10 images" you get this page.
http://www.google.ca/search?q=lockheed+electra+10+images&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=8cMST66HLKLg0QHJj8GyDA&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=644 (http://www.google.ca/search?q=lockheed+electra+10+images&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=8cMST66HLKLg0QHJj8GyDA&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=644)
On this page you can see images of Electras with two different wheels and rims. The slimmer hard surface tires appear to have a larger diameter rim. The softer "fat tires" shown in most AE photos have the smaller diameter rims.
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The question is:
Did cn1055 (the Earhart Electra) ever have wheels that look like the wheels Ms. Chesier says her grandfather took off the airplane in Oakland at some time.
The photos here show the wheels on 1055 from an early date prior to October 1936 (only one belly antenna, no loop) until Bandoeng, Java in late June 1937.
They all show the same type of wheel and it is unlike Ms. Chesier's wheel.
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Background bits on Hayes (now Goodrich) company:
The Evolution of Goodrich Aircraft Wheels and Brakes
The Goodrich Aircraft Wheels and Brakes facility is located on the grounds of the original WACO Aircraft Company in Troy, Ohio which flourished in the late 1920s and set the stage for aviation to continue here well into the future.
Goodrich milestones since the 1930s:
In 1937, Goodrich provided expander tubes to Hayes Industries. The company took over the expander tube brake business, together with a number of disk brake designs, test data and patents from Hayes Industries Inc.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1943-Hayes-Aircraft-Wheels-Brakes-Jackson-MI-Ad-Boeing-B-17-Flying-Fortress-/00/s/MTM5NVgxMDAw/$(KGrHqZHJ!wE7))0EmGDBPClnPJPMg~~60_3.JPG)
http://goo.gl/d6TYQ
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I guess it would be important to find out if "changed during a stop in Oakland" could possibly have been misconstrued from "changed when plane was reassembled in California," etc.
At any rate, here's Tighar's inventory of what was inventoried at Luke Field, HI, March 26, 1937, and listed as shipped to California [to the Lockheed facility in Burbank, California?] for repairs.:
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/Luke_Field.html
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From a different aircraft, but in case it gives clues to which type of wheel this lady has in her possession - here's an ad for Spitfire parts, including: "Fleet Fort Model 60K Wheels ... "
Actually, the ad is for parts from a variety of vintage plane types (including Spitfires). However, the wheels listed for sale apparently come from a Fleet Fort Model 60K (a WWII era intermediate training aircraft designed and built in Canada) like the one pictured in the link below ...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36702396@N00/6273680179/in/photostream/
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Really proving difficult to find info on that particular rim; have been able to ferret out that BF Goodrich did indeed have facilities in Oakland. Interestingly, BF Goodrich first synthesized rubber in 1937.
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I believe the guys at this link have it sorted out......wheel appears to be from a Model 12 (http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q425/PinkFloydCa/004.jpg)
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44071 (http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44071)
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I'm still thinking that "stop in Oakland" could refer somehow to the reassembly/repair, post-crash in Hawai'i. Doesn't seem that something as drastic as changing out an entire wheel would be more likely to refer to the latter? Also, where's the tire? If this wheel was a keepsake, wouldn't the tire most likely be with it still, unless it was already blown off? Is it safe to postulate--theoretically only--that if this wheel is somehow connected to AE, it came out of box #5 shipped from Luke Field, HI to California, containing "Two (2) landing gear forks with wheels & tires?"
Or is this thing absolutely (as close as we can tell) not what was on Electra before the Hawai'i crash, and would therefore have to be some replacement/upgraded wheel that was tried during repairs, and swapped out for some reason [higher takeoff weights, as someone else suggested?], in the end?
Or, of course, something from another bird altogether.
New pics have been posted, including: Wheel
(http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q425/PinkFloydCa/004.jpg)
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And this is a hard one, given the wheel (http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q425/PinkFloydCa/004.jpg) continued to age after it was retired from service, but can any crewchiefs here tell how much wear this wheel appears to have...i.e. does it look like a wheel that was used only once or twice and then taken off, or is it just not possible to tell?
Sadly even in six years of chiefing I didn't change that many wheels, nor get good looks at the insides of most of them.
With a manufacture date of Feb '37, it may not have gotten that much use regardless, unless it was swapped in from some other high-use plane.
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Hmm...does anyone have more on this crash/mishap? Searching TIGHAR now to find a date.
(http://www.irene-amelia.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/ElectraCrash.jpg.w560h420.jpg)
Photo caption: "Amela Earhart escaped injury in this pile-up off the end of Lockheed's runway at Burbank, CA. Shortly after this photo was made, Earhart and Noonan disappeared on their Round the World flight, May 20 - 3 July, 1937."
In the Warbirds thread, the woman asking about the "rim" recently said it could have been Burbank rather than Oakland where her g-grandfather says the work took place; she's going to ask her grandfather.
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Photo addressed here:
http://tighar.org/Publications/TTracks/1995Vol_11/logosandlegs.pdf
Wow. Phenomenal detective work.
If that wheel is indeed from an Electra 12 instead of 10, would that lend credence to the theory that AE might actually have been associated in some way with the Burbank "mishap" after all?
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If that wheel is indeed from an Electra 12 instead of 10, would that lend credence to the theory that AE might actually have been associated in some way with the Burbank "mishap" after all?
No. It would simply indicate that the person who thinks the wheel has some association with Amelia Earhart is mistaken. Happens all the time. Objects linked to Earhart are worth money.
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Hmm...does anyone have more on this crash/mishap? Searching TIGHAR now to find a date.
I have a dim recollection of having seen this photo on the Forum before, but I cannot find it now. But I recall that it was noted at the time that just aft of the open cabin door there were signs of some kind of Photoshopping to obliterate a logo, and that this is not an aircraft having anything to do with AE. Maybe Ric has seen this picture elsewhere.
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Hmm...does anyone have more on this crash/mishap? Searching TIGHAR now to find a date.
I have a dim recollection of having seen this photo on the Forum before, but I cannot find it now. But I recall that it was noted at the time that just aft of the open cabin door there were signs of some kind of Photoshopping to obliterate a logo, and that this is not an aircraft having anything to do with AE. Maybe Ric has seen this picture elsewhere.
Yes - it was addressed in this Tighar pub: http://tighar.org/Publications/TTracks/1995Vol_11/logosandlegs.pdf
Apparently an Electra 12 used at some point for the film Rosalie, and according to analysis in the article, called the date into question as being too late to have anything to do with AE.