TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => The Islands: Expeditions, Facts, Castaway, Finds and Environs => Topic started by: Jeff Scott on May 22, 2011, 03:36:16 PM
-
I have a question on this map showing an overview of Nikumaroro and potential Earhart-related evidence found there.
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/3/3e/Nikumapevidence.jpg)
This image appears primarily on the page Place names on Nikumaroro (http://tighar.org/wiki/Place_Names_on_Nikumaroro). The item that puzzles me is the reference to an engine recovered from the reef and taken to Kanton. I was under the impression that story had been debunked, as summarized on the Kanton Island (http://tighar.org/wiki/Kanton_%28Canton%29_Island) article:
"Subsequent investigation revealed the story to be, although well intentioned, almost certainly apocryphal"
Is the image simply outdated?
-
Is the image simply outdated?
Yep. Nessie isn't on there either.
-
I have a question on this map showing an overview of Nikumaroro and potential Earhart-related evidence found there.
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/3/3e/Nikumapevidence.jpg)
This image appears primarily on the page Place names on Nikumaroro (http://tighar.org/wiki/Place_Names_on_Nikumaroro). The item that puzzles me is the reference to an engine recovered from the reef and taken to Kanton. I was under the impression that story had been debunked, as summarized on the Kanton Island (http://tighar.org/wiki/Kanton_%28Canton%29_Island) article:
"Subsequent investigation revealed the story to be, although well intentioned, almost certainly apocryphal"
Is the image simply outdated?
My bad. Any Day Now I could work on a replacement that only shows place names ...
-
The list of stuff we've found at the Seven site is now too long to put on a map anyway.
-
This is a case of a picture worth a thousand words. I have never seen this map before. It answers a lot of questions for me. I searched "Loran Station" and got more info. It seems the C. G. men did have opportunities to visit the rest of the island, maybe not regularly, of course. I wonder if maybe they could have walked the short distance to the nearby clearing where the artifacts were found, and used it as a getaway spot, perhaps to gather to cook up some local birds or turtles to relieve the monotony of the military food? I don't believe there was a high fence around their compound to prevent them from doing this. I picture in those days some of the men having the knowledge to clean & cook some of the local wildlife. This would just give a reason for firepits and the like, would not rule out anybody else using the area, of course. Also, from my military experience they might have been conscientious enough to remove all their debris, beer cans, cigarette butts, or whatever, so there would be no sign that would identify the C.G. as using this area. I'm sure this topic has been raised somewhere in the forum, but I have not seen it.
-
The Coasties did visit the Seven Site on at least a few occasions (we're not sure how many). In fact, the ten-year process that resulted in locating the site and identifying it as the place where Gallagher found the bones began with a story told by a Coast Guard veteran. See the ancient TIGHAR Tracks article "Nor any Drop to Drink" (http://tighar.org/Publications/TTracks/1990Vol_6/NorAnyDropToDrink.pdf).
Over the years we've interviewed as many of the surviving members of Coast Guard Unit 92 as we could find and we have a large collection of documents, photos and stories. Based on what they've told us and what we've found at the site, their activity at the site consisted mostly of some impromptu target practice. They certainly didn't worry about picking up their trash - brass cartridges, broken crockery and pieces of vacuum tubes used as targets. No tales or evidence of any Coast Guard picnics. They occasionally caught fish from the lagoon and lobster from the reef (eaten at the main base) but they do not seem to have eaten birds, turtles, small fish, or clams.
Like many if not most archaeological sites, the Seven Site has artifacts and other material from several different periods or episodes of occupation. We spend a great deal of time and energy trying to sort them out.
-
Thanks, Ric, for answering my questions. Would I be correct to say that the Coasties had NO knowledge of the possibility that Amelia mmight have landed on Gardner? That the natives had NO conception of this possibility to share with the Americans? I know this is getting away from relevancy, but wouldn't this lack of knowledge tend to dampen any curiosity they might have about any odd piece of possible airplane wreckage they might have found or seen? Which, apparently, they did not find or see anyway.
-
Thanks, Ric, for answering my questions. Would I be correct to say that the Coasties had NO knowledge of the possibility that Amelia mmight have landed on Gardner? That the natives had NO conception of this possibility to share with the Americans? I know this is getting away from relevancy, but wouldn't this lack of knowledge tend to dampen any curiosity they might have about any odd piece of possible airplane wreckage they might have found or seen? Which, apparently, they did not find or see anyway.
Coasties:
Floyd Kilts (http://tighar.org/wiki/Kilts) published an account in 1960 that has proven to have some grains of truth in it.
John Mims (http://tighar.org/wiki/John_Mims) flew supply flights for the station.
"Prior to the interviews on Funafuti, the only account of a plane wreck on the island was from former PBY pilot John Mims (see TIGHAR Tracks Vol. 11, No. 3 “Catch Of The Day”) who told of seeing an airplane control cable being used as heavy-duty fishing tackle during a visit to Nikumaroro in 1944 or ’45. The Gilbertese fishermen told him that the cable had come from a plane that been there when they first came to the island. When Mims asked where the plane was now, they just shrugged" TIGHAR Tracks, 13:1. (http://tighar.org/Publications/TTracks/13_1/corroboration.html)
Emily Sikuli was interviewed by TIGHAR three times (http://tighar.org/wiki/Emily) about airplane wreckage on Niku.
-
Would I be correct to say that the Coasties had NO knowledge of the possibility that Amelia mmight have landed on Gardner?
I don't know. We've only been able to interview about a half dozen of the fifty or so Coasties who were on the island at various times.
That the natives had NO conception of this possibility to share with the Americans?
There were no natives on Nikumaroro. Everyone there came from someplace else. According to Kilts (see link in Marty's post above), at least some of the colonists were aware that Earhart had been on the island and, in fact, shared that information with a Coastie (Kilts).
-
That Kilts article is fascinating.
Next month (Kilts) will fly to the Philippines to visit his daughter and, perhaps, stop off at Gardner in the middle of nowhere and nothing to hunt for an airplane and do a little theory proving of his own.
Did he ever do this, or is that a joke? It seems a little ludicrous. Wouldn't he need a float plane, unless he wanted to meet the same demise? I guess it would be hard to know if he ever did try to search around again without interviewing him.
-
That Kilts article is fascinating.
Next month (Kilts) will fly to the Philippines to visit his daughter and, perhaps, stop off at Gardner in the middle of nowhere and nothing to hunt for an airplane and do a little theory proving of his own.
Did he ever do this, or is that a joke? It seems a little ludicrous. Wouldn't he need a float plane, unless he wanted to meet the same demise? I guess it would be hard to know if he ever did try to search around again without interviewing him.
The operative phrase is "in the middle of nowhere." You don't just "stop off" there without a fair expenditure of time and money. Have you read any of TIGHAR's expedition reports? (http://tighar.org/wiki/Category:Expeditions)
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/c/c5/Oceania.jpg)
It's not like looking around a shopping mall or even a small town.
-
That is one weird map. The Phoenix Islands are north of Samoa and closer to Howland than the Gilberts.
-
That is one weird map. The Phoenix Islands are north of Samoa and closer to Howland than the Gilberts.
Probably due to the kind of projection used. You can see the curved longitude lines, as if you were looking at a globe. That's why the flight path looks curved, too, I think. I got it from "TIGHARS on Tinian," (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Tinian/tigharstinian.htm) FWIW.
Here is one from the the CIA. (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/graphics/ref_maps/pdf/oceania.pdf)
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/f/fe/CIA-Pacific.png)
-
My bad. Any Day Now I could work on a replacement that only shows place names ...
I agree a place-name map of its own is probably the better way to go. An updated version of the evidence map would also be valuable since I've found it one of the more powerful methods to summarize the "case for Nikumaroro" in one simple diagram.
-
I agree a place-name map of its own is probably the better way to go.
One of your wishes is my command--because I wish it, too!
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/thumb/b/b1/Niku-placenames.png/694px-Niku-placenames.png)
An updated version of the evidence map would also be valuable since I've found it one of the more powerful methods to summarize the "case for Nikumaroro" in one simple diagram.
The best stuff so far has come out of the Village (http://tighar.org/wiki/Village) and the 7 site. (http://tighar.org/wiki/Seven_site) The shoe parts found in 1991 (http://tighar.org/wiki/2-2-G-7/1-9) are in limbo right now.
This is an updated evidence map, I believe:
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/thumb/4/44/Nikuevidence.jpg/800px-Nikuevidence.jpg)
DOH! And an exceedingly clear map with placenames:
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/thumb/3/35/Nikumapplain.jpg/800px-Nikumapplain.jpg)
That's the trouble with the TIGHAR website--it's hard to keep track of what has already been done!
-
Wow, thanks for the new maps! Those are great.
Have you read any of TIGHAR's expedition reports? (http://tighar.org/wiki/Category:Expeditions) It's not like looking around a shopping mall or even a small town.
Yeah I've read most of those, that's why I thought it was kinda ludicrous the guy would just "stop off" again at Nikumaroro to search again, but you never know what people with Ameliamania will do.
Having not been intimately involved with TIGHAR for very long, I had not read some of the old issues from the 1990s (mail fraud, etc, seriously wow...), so I'm catching up with that.
-
Wow, thanks for the new maps! Those are great.
My pleasure!
Yeah I've read most of those, that's why I thought it was kinda ludicrous the guy would just "stop off" again at Nikumaroro to search again, but you never know what people with Ameliamania will do.
Agreed. One of the odd events in the history of the Phoenix islands was the voyage of the Yankee. (http://tighar.org/wiki/Yankee) We also have some evidence from an island police officer (http://tighar.org/wiki/Eni_Etuati) and from the activity of a tuna trawler (http://tighar.org/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=36&product_id=97) that boats can and do visit Niku without permission and without leaving a record.
One last piece of evidence along these lines from the old Forum: (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Forum/Forum_Archives/200704.txt)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:42:20
From: Rick Jones
Subject: TIGHAR's everywhere
Here is a posting made today on Google Earth Community (board) on Google
Earth's "Gardner Island Theory". ...
Rick J #2751
"Gardner Island Theory [Re: A30]
I worked on Canton Island, Phoenix islands 1972-1975. This was an
operational location for SAMTEC and supporting SDC and NASA. We had
several helocopters operated by a contractor that ferried me and my
suppervisor to Enderbury Island. Hull Island had a crew to operate
the tracking equipment located there.
In their rare visits to the the other islands, they would drop off emergency
fuel and supply caches in case the case an emergency landing was required.
They would do some exploring. We later found out that the 65' Korean tuna
fishing boats that worked these waters raided these emergency caches. So it
was discontinued. A loss to all. The flight operations to these island where
discontinued in "late 73." ...
-
Delving into the voyage of the Yankee (http://tighar.org/wiki/Yankee) I looked up the address of Johnson's Bookstore, and it is still there. That was given as the address of the ship's owner, I believe. Maybe somebody should call them to see if they remember the Yankee. I wouldn't know exactly what questions would be most useful. When I refer to the "natives" in my posts, I just mean the Natives of the Pacific Islands in general. I'm just curious why Kilts and the PBY pilot got info possibly pertaining to Amelia, and the regular Coasties apparently did not. Not that I think they would have swum out to look for plane parts, but maybe they had a boat they could have searched with. Or did they? When I let my mind really wander, I speculate on the possibility of there being someone on the island if and when Amelia landed there. Especially in the days when there was probably little or no control of whoever wanted to go there. They might not have been friendly.
-
Yankee (http://tighar.org/wiki/Yankee)
-
Yankee (http://tighar.org/wiki/Yankee)
I've modified your post for you.
You can do the same for any of your old posts.
Look at the post. The "modify" button is up toward the right-hand corner.