TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => Alternatives to the Niku Hypothesis => Topic started by: Martin X. Moleski, SJ on February 28, 2011, 04:33:59 PM
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Read the full article in PACNEWS--Pacific Islands News Association. (http://www.pina.com.fj/?p=pacnews&m=read&o=8102597514d6c0eb1501168a35e92c)
"The discovery of an aircraft wreck at the depth of 70 metres north-west of Buka in Bougainville may hold some answers to the 74-year mystery of the disappearance of world-famous aviatrix – Amelia Earhart.
"There are strong indications that the aircraft is a Lockheed Model 10 Electra which took off from Lae on July 2nd 1937 destined for Howland Island. The crash site is in direct alignment with Earhart’s flight path out of Lae, past north of Buka Island in a straight northeast direction to Howland."
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Reminds me of dialogue from "Raiders of the Lost Ark":
Indiana: There's a big snake in the plane, Jock!
Jock: Oh, that's just my pet snake Reggie.
Indiana: I hate snakes, Jock! I hate 'em!
Jock: Come on! Show a little backbone, will ya!
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"reported gold bullion sitting in the aircraft"
WooHoo! The conspiracy thickens! Obviously the U.S. govt. was sending AE on a mission to deliver the gold to some foreign government. Now we just need to figure out who the intended recipient was. :D
Mona
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Not new news but at least an update. Gold and snakes! Bet there's some on board cameras and flight plans to the Marshalls ;)
Earharts Electra found in Papua New Guinea (https://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,201.0.html)
Claims Amelia Earharts plane found (http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/4070865/Claims-Amelia-Earharts-plane-found)
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after 24 hours of flying they crashed there ?
doubt it
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No pictures! Can't we get our gov. to force them to release what they have? Probably not!
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Oh yea, and there is that other little fact that AE reported her position the morning after within listening range of Howland. Shoots ANY chance that this is AE's plane fight in the foot! Unless, she turned back and got that far on the few gallons of fuel she had left. This story regarding Buka is stupid and an insult!
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Oh yea, and there is that other little fact that AE reported her position the morning after within listening range of Howland. Shoots ANY chance that this is AE's plane fight in the foot! Unless, she turned back and got that far on the few gallons of fuel she had left. This story regarding Buka is stupid and an insult!
Just as every white woman seen from a distance in the custody of the Japanese seems to have become Amelia Earhart in later recollections, it appears that every lost aircraft in the Pacific becomes hers.
"Nature abhors a vacuum." The disappearance of the aircraft on July 2, 1937, has left a huge hole in the historical narrative. Many people--TIGHAR included!--would like to fill that emptiness with a satisfactory account of What Really Happened.
The folks backing the sunken plane seem to me to be suffering from Helpful Witness Syndrome. (http://tighar.org/wiki/Helpful_Witness_Syndrome) Probably the only cure is to get divers down to the wreck (if there is a wreck) to show what the aircraft really is. But I'm not willing to donate any money for that cure. 8)
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That's strange, the article mentioned the bullion (though they forgot to say it was Nazi gold) and the snake but not the curse...
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"Bougainvilleans warn visitors to island" (http://bougainvilletourism.blogspot.com/2011/03/bougainvilleans-warn-visitors-to-island.html)
"02 MARCH 2011 BUKA ( POST COURIER) ---- No one is allowed to travel to Bougainville and make an attempt to visit a plane wreck of Amelia Earhart, locals warned yesterday.
"An aircraft said to fit the description of Earhart's Lockheed 10E Electra is resting at the depth of 70 metres on a reef at Matsungan Island, northwest of Buka.
"The group carrying out the confirmation expedition headed by David Mona and businessman Cletus Harepa have warned that any divers from overseas or outside Bougainville planning a 'diving' trip to the crash site would have to seek permission from them. ..."
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Is sounding more and more like a good sci-fi/action movie plot. Wrecked plane of fame aviatrix, mysterious gold bullion, and it is all guarded by a 6 metre long killer snake. Once they get the coral off the side of that plane they will see the metal plate with the the curse written on it... ::)
BTW: Not a marine biologist but would really like to know, what would be the species of a large sea snake that dwells at a depth of 70 metres?
LTM,
Don
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BTW: Not a marine biologist but would really like to know, what would be the species of a large sea snake that dwells at a depth of 70 metres?
Perhaps they've found a new species as well as gold? :D
This article (http://www.mrcrimella.com/web_documents/seasnakes.pdf) suggests that most sea snakes live in shallow water. It kind of makes sense to me (NB: I'm not a marine biologist either, nor do I play one in my dreams): snakes are air-breathing reptiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_snake).
Now, if it is a poisonous eel, that's a horse of a different color. :P
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But IF AE HAD managed to crash there (reverse course and fly at 1,100 MPH until fuel gone after speaking to Itasca, etc.), just who might have left all those marvelous things found at the 7 site?
I love TIGHAR. I've paid my dues. I serve as the root admin on the site. I appreciate what TIGHAR has accomplished. But I don't think we're at the point where we can say "There is no other explanation of the materials found at the Seven Site other than AE."
Strange things do happen.
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BTW: Not a marine biologist but would really like to know, what would be the species of a large sea snake that dwells at a depth of 70 metres?
Perhaps they've found a new species as well as gold? :D
This article (http://www.mrcrimella.com/web_documents/seasnakes.pdf) suggests that most sea snakes live in shallow water. It kind of makes sense to me (NB: I'm not a marine biologist either, nor do I play one in my dreams): snakes are air-breathing reptiles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_snake).
Now, if it is a poisonous eel, that's a horse of a different color. :P
Now I know Wikipedia isn't the fount of all human knowledge but Wikipedia, sea snakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_snake) would suggest that some species can be found in depths of upto 90M. However it also indicates that most species of sea snake are docial.
Could be an aggresive Eel though!
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Now I know Wikipedia isn't the font of all human knowledge but Wikipedia, sea snakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_snake) would suggest that some species can be found in depths of up to 90M. However it also indicates that most species of sea snake are docile.
OK, I stand (well, sit) corrected. I had missed that line when I scanned the article. I guess if they've been seen swimming at 90M, they could nest at 90M (do snakes nest?).
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Now I know Wikipedia isn't the fount of all human knowledge but Wikipedia, sea snakes would suggest that some species can be found in depths of upto 90M. However it also indicates that most species of sea snake are docial.
Docile, docile...come on your ruining my whole movie plot here. KILLER SNAKES can not be docile...
Seems awfully large (6 metres), isn't that like around an 18 footer. Must be a relative of the Loch Ness Monster. If it is an eel, do they get that large, were talking Anaconda size here... ;D
Seems from the story that they have been working the site for a very long time (years), would seem that they would have been able to at least verify who the damn plane belonged to by now. My conspiracy theory mode is telling me that they want everyone to believe that it is AE's plane so no one is gonna pop-up and try to put a claim against their "found" lode of gold.
LTM,
Don
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Now I know Wikipedia isn't the fount of all human knowledge but Wikipedia, sea snakes would suggest that some species can be found in depths of upto 90M. However it also indicates that most species of sea snake are docial.
Docile, docile...come on your ruining my whole movie plot here. KILLER SNAKES can not be docile...
Seems awfully large (6 metres), isn't that like around an 18 footer. Must be a relative of the Loch Ness Monster. If it is an eel, do they get that large, were talking Anaconda size here... ;D
Seems from the story that they have been working the site for a very long time (years), would seem that they would have been able to at least verify who the damn plane belonged to by now. My conspiracy theory mode is telling me that they want everyone to believe that it is AE's plane so no one is gonna pop-up and try to put a claim against their "found" lode of gold.
LTM,
Don
Maybe its dosn't like divers or is a loyal Papuan?
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Read the full article in PACNEWS--Pacific Islands News Association. (http://www.pina.com.fj/?p=pacnews&m=read&o=8102597514d6c0eb1501168a35e92c)
"The discovery of an aircraft wreck at the depth of 70 metres north-west of Buka in Bougainville may hold some answers to the 74-year mystery of the disappearance of world-famous aviatrix – Amelia Earhart.
This is obviously not N16020. In the 1930's Lockheed was building aircraft to the US system of units and this one is apparently metric.
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this is all hooey. I think that whoever is orchestrating the PR is intent on getting someone to pay big bucks for the right to recover the aircraft and it's "valuables" along with the "gold bullion", which in the end won't be there. There is no reason that AE would be carrying gold, it simply weighed too much and they needed the fuel more than gold. This is going to turn out to be a wartime wreck, they - whoever they are - are just trying to capitalize on the situation either through greed or ignorance.
amck
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Serously, forget all that. Can't be AE's plane as it was close to Howland the following morning. NO ONE can dispute that fact. Radio evidence. End of story!
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I think that whoever is orchestrating the PR is intent on getting someone to pay big bucks for the right to recover the aircraft and it's "valuables" along with the "gold bullion", which in the end won't be there.
I thought Cletus and company were recovering it?
LTM,
Don
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From Art Rypinski, a member of the Earhart Project Advisory Committee (EPAC) (http://tighar.org/wiki/EPAC):
At some point I discovered that there was an airfield on Bougainville, right underneath AE’ track to Howland. Gasmata was built by the Australians circa 1940, captured by the Japanese in 1942, and used as a satellite strip for Rabaul. Anyway, the RAAF repeatedly bombed Gasmata using Lockheed Hudsons (Super Electra) flying out of Port Moresby. Here is a description (with photos) of one Hudson wreck right on AE’s flight path. Possibly the origin of the Bougainville stories?
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/hudson/A16-91.html
This database indicates a Lockheed PV-1 Ventura, s/n 440203 (aka militarized L-14 Super Electra) was lost in the Buka passage! No details or aircrew names, which may indicate the aircrew survived.
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/USN/PV.htm
In any case, the neighborhood was thick with twin engine, twin tail Lockheed products during WWII.
Russ Matthews, also a member of the Earhart Project Advisory Committee (EPAC) (http://tighar.org/wiki/EPAC), then corrected Art's report:
Ooops .. that's a date, not a serial number. It should read a US Navy PV-1 Ventura (unknown Bu No) lost in Buka Passage on February 3rd, 1944.
I found the reference in a handy online database at Craig Fuller's Aviation Archaeology website ...
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/USN/PV.htm
A little more info is included in an entry on Justin Taylin's excellent "Pacific Wrecks" reference site (http://www.pacificwrecks.org). He states that it was a US Marine Corps aircraft (Bu No 33254) based out of Piva Airfield and lost "20 miles off the Buka Passage" (which seems a loooong way out for SCUBA divers). Curiously, he also lists the plane as belonging to VMF-215 .. a Marine Fighting squadron which so far as I can tell) was never equipped with the PV-1. Maybe it's a typo.
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From Art Rypinski, a member of the Earhart Project Advisory Committee (EPAC) (http://tighar.org/wiki/EPAC):
A little more info is included in an entry on Justin Taylin's excellent "Pacific Wrecks" reference site (http://www.pacificwrecks.org). He states that it was a US Marine Corps aircraft (Bu No 33254) based out of Piva Airfield and lost "20 miles off the Buka Passage" (which seems a loooong way out for SCUBA divers). Curiously, he also lists the plane as belonging to VMF-215 .. a Marine Fighting squadron which so far as I can tell) was never equipped with the PV-1. Maybe it's a typo.
I second the idea of a typo. The Pacific Wrecks (http://www.pacificwrecks.org) website also shows that at the same Piva airfield during that period there was another Marine Corps squadron, VMF(N)-531 "The Grey Ghosts" (http://www.pacificwrecks.com/units/usmc/VMF(N)-531.html), and it was equipped with PV-1 (Ventura) aircraft. Typo? ... 215 versus 531 (http://www.pacificwrecks.com/airfields/png/piva_uncle/index.html) ... you be the judge.
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This cant be AE's Electra. It's off the reef at Nikumarro.
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I can believe that its a Marine Aircraft BUT why would a military aircraft be hauling a lode of gold in the Pacific? If they were hauling a lode of gold they definately would not be on a bombing mission with it. Looking more and more like Andrew stated that there is no gold.
LTM,
Don
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I received an e-mail today from ACZ that expands the list of possible types of aircraft that might be found in the Bougainville area:
I have been following the "Earhart Discovery" off Buka Island with great interest for the past few days. Obviously it is not the Electra, but, with Matsungan island being about 8 miles northwest of Buka Airfield, I think it's a probability that this is an MIA combat loss.
I believe that TIGHAR's Navy PV-1 suspect is a good possibility, although the location relative to the straits would be overestimated. Let me add a couple more, beyond a forgotten RAAF Hudson or RNZAF Ventura.
Refer to http://PacificWrecks.com account of "The Alpine Milkman," (http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-25/the_alpine_milkman.html) which was a B-25D with S/N 41-30566. (http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-25/41-30566.html)
This B-25 gunship was lost (as in 'vanished') on the night of January 13/14 1944 flying from an island airfield (Stirling) off the south end of Bougainville tasked with the mission of navigating up the west side of Bougainville/Buka to bomb Lakunai airfield near Rabaul. This Mitchell of the 70th Bomb Squadron/42nd Bomb Group was never seen or heard of again after takeoff. Even the Missing Air Crew Report was lost in 1948!
A further clue is reported in the account regarding the radar station at Torokina (west central coast of Bougainville, and south of Buka) 'painting' a distress IFF target "from a position toward Rabaul."
I am theorizing that the PNG divers are probably making their identification by twin engines and twin tails. A B-25 wreck, in heavily encrusted poor condition could possibly qualify as an Electra for them perhaps?
Of course, the above possibilities do not feature gold bullion as cargo. Let me suggest one more possibility that might, and would involve long lost bones too.
The Japanese operated a copy of the Lockheed Super Electra as a transport in significant numbers called the Kawasaki Ki 56. This would add another candidate to a Lockheed Hudson type wreck, and there would probably be no accounting for it today except as a kill for an allied pilot, and possibly in the last days of the Japanese occupation of New Guinea. Perhaps these JAAF pilots might have been trying to evacuate the AO including some bullion in the back?
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More information from ACZ:
Thanks for posting my blurb on the forum.
You will want to edit the link for the B-25 to this one:
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-25/41-30566.html
And here is another obscure detail about this aircraft. This bureau
number IS associated with The Alpine Milkman nose art, but
pacificwrecks has two different accounts for the airplane!
Anyway, read the page above and my interest will make much more sense.
Also, check out the mission map I made for this incident.
Of course, another possibility is that it was just a couple of blokes flying some
gold out in a twin Beech in the 50's, and they ran out of gas, or something less exotic!
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Ric has a new Research Bulletin up: "Too True to Believe." (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/60_TooTrue/60_TooTrue.htm)
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Ric has a new Research Bulletin up: "Too True to Believe." (http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/60_TooTrue/60_TooTrue.htm)
Quote Ric "we'd love to see the eel"
Its better than Python (no pun intended) :D
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;D I know! The gold bullion that was stored under the floorboards interfered with the AE's radios on a secret frequency that the Japanese unloaded from the wreck and put on a submarine then loaded on a copy of the L10E and shipped it all to Saipan just to have it shot down on the way out of Rabaul decades later! WOW! see! we solved it for Cletus!
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Well that explains the problem of it being overloaded when it left Lae, it wasn't all that fuel it was all of that gold. ;D
Obviously someone found a copy of the script of the new Harrison Ford film coming out, "Indiana Jones and the Snake Gold of Buka Island".
LTM,
Don
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Well...it's patently obvious, actually.
They had all that gold on board to pay for the fuel at Howland. I know that's about how much it cost to fill my Chrysler the other day. ;D
....TB
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Has there been any latest word on the plane wreck reportedly found off Bougainville? In light of the debris field found off nikumaroro, we see no reason to think that AE made navigational errors and went back to New Guinea.
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Has there been any latest word on the plane wreck reportedly found off Bougainville? In light of the debris field found off nikumaroro, we see no reason to think that AE made navigational errors and went back to New Guinea.
She was too close to Howland Island to have turned back and made it back to Lea with the low fuel load she had left. She was past the point of no return.