TIGHAR
Amelia Earhart Search Forum => Artifact Analysis => Topic started by: Brad Beeching on February 24, 2011, 11:31:00 AM
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Have these two artifacts (http://tighar.org/wiki/2-6-S-03a_and_2-6-S-03b) been identified? I read that the current thinking was that they may be from a sextant box? What about a small suitcase? Some of the other artifacts found are thought to have come from cosmetic and toilet items, such as the odd shaped bottle fragments, compact case fragments, mirror shards etc. etc. Is there any documentation as to what AE might have stored these items in, such as a small case or a small flight bag? A flight bag may also explain the zipper fragments as well.
Just a thought...
Gums
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Have these two artifacts (http://tighar.org/wiki/2-6-S-03a_and_2-6-S-03b) been identified?
The two artifacts in question (known to their friends as "gidgies"):
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/6/61/2_6_S_03a_01.jpg)
(http://tighar.org/aw/mediawiki/images/5/51/2_6_S_03b_01.jpg)
They have not been identified.
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... and you can read what little is known about the gidgies (including a link to the article in an old issue of TIGHAR Tracks) by clicking here (http://tighar.org/wiki/Gidgies).
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I have seen items simular to these before and have been racking my brain trying to remember just where I've seen them. I used to work at a furniture auction house years ago and we would get in antique steamer trunks, suitcases and other such items from all over the British Isles. But I keep coming back to a suitcase, so I was hoping to find out if anyone knew what AE might have kept her unmentionable items in? A picture of the ointment bottles, compact, etc and a small travel case keep floating around in my minds eye, so I was going to look in some of the shops we have in the area to see if there are items like the "Gidgies" in a period suitcase or trunk. I seem to remember the shape in conjunction with a false bottom or a panel inside a case. The "Gidgies" remind me of the little swivel locks that held the panel in place.
Gums
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The serrations remind me of a clasp used to hold an elastic strap in a garment bag, but whenever I try to orient the gidgie into something useful, the geometry doesn't work out. The teeth are on the wrong end, the screw is in the wrong hole, the bend doesn't belong, etc. More frustrating than golf.
At first they struck me as something used to hang a picture on a wall where you level the picture by hanging the gidgie on a nail and picking the right notch for balance, but I think the luggage idea makes a lot more sense.
Didn't she ditch her suitcase at Lae and ship it home? Seems to me she had a couple of nights on the road left and might have kept a small bag of some sort.
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Just a thought but, while examining these 2 artifacts last night my wife, who is from South East Asia, said that they are from a home made fish de-scaler. She remembers her mother using similar home made versions, bits of worked metal screwed and nailed to wood, see pics below of home made versus modern.
http://tighar.org/wiki/2-6-S-03a_and_2-6-S-03b (http://tighar.org/wiki/2-6-S-03a_and_2-6-S-03b)
(http://)
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Just a thought but, while examining these 2 artifacts last night my wife, who is from South East Asia, said that they are from a home made fish de-scaler. She remembers her mother using similar home made versions, bits of worked metal screwed and nailed to wood, see pics below of home made versus modern.
That's a great idea--best yet, I think.
Our gidgies seem to be on a much smaller scale.
Perhaps they were back-scratchers.
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Our gidgies seem to be on a much smaller scale.
Must be for smaller fish. ::)
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Our gidgies seem to be on a much smaller scale.
Must be for smaller fish. ::)
[/quote
Yes, I noticed that but, in the first pic I posted James they use a row of them to give the required size. Did you notice that in the first pic it is made from bottle tops, how ingenious is that! Use stuff you find lying about on the ground is the way to survive and, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Gilbertese Islands settlers did just that. fishing lines from aircraft cables, combs from aluminium bits of aircraft, a cottage industry at it's best. Years ago I recall seeing a hooch made from empty beer cans in S E Asia, brilliant!
Jeff
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(https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRZ0fu-Xlt5xPNV-GjqY4V_Mr3LLres6QYgVjh9dZE_mguK1s9PqA) These are widely known as BODY MOLDING CLIPS,, The hole would have had a strong wire threw it bent to fit under the Chrome or Alluminum Trim Moulding inside a thin valley similar to a windshield wiper blade. The photo is a later version of the one pictured with the penny,, it would have been mounted flat on a chrome cover around possibly a windshield trim used to keep weather out from where the windshild glass meet's the cowling on cars--aircraft but never heard of one used on a boat unless used on a special made yacht. The latter would be a wall base trim molding clip which would have been screwed into a floor up against the wall and base trim would have snapped over it and locked into place by the teeth at top into a slotted groove inside the chrome or alluminum molding or trim,,,,the hieghth of placement would have been slightly higher than the bent trim that snapped over it with the trim on the floor or base and the teeth slightly above the trim edge to allow it to be snapped solidly into place. HOPE THIS HELPS,,,The older automobiles had the under the side-moulding and on the windshields,,aircraft would have used them too seal chrome covers over the windshield cowlings to keep weather out of the gap between the windshield cowling and the glass its-self.
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Someone else suggested the said same thing in this thread Can you explain.... (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,17.60.html) -- top post with attachment.
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Maybe parts of a homemade coconut scraper?
(http://culinarysupplies.org/images/Coconut%20grater%20twin%20tips.gif)
(http://culinarysupplies.org/images/Coconut%20Grater%20Table%20Top.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3334/3190103177_2bd7ceefdb_z.jpg)
(http://australianmuseum.net.au/Uploads/Images/16527/iE010000b_big.jpg)
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Could well be a homemade coconut scaper Derek. I sent the images of the two artifacts over to the in-laws in Cagayan-de-oro and they said that's most likely what they were used for. Screwed to a short length of wood, one at either end. They sent me one of their home made ones. Now, the mother in law is 85 years old and she's had this since she can't remember when. Here's some images of said item, notice the similarities.
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Here's something similar I found today while working in the garden. It's used to prevent rotation of an adjuster, not that I'm suggesting the gidgies were from clippers, but rather that they might have locked something from rotation in similar fashion.
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Here's something similar I found today while working in the garden. It's used to prevent rotation of an adjuster, not that I'm suggesting the gidgies were from clippers, but rather that they might have locked something from rotation in similar fashion.
The screw is a wood screw so the mechanism was mounted on wood. The mechanism probably rotated around the screw. The second hole in each gidgie may have been for a pin to lock the gidgie in place when rotation was not desired.
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The screw is a wood screw so the mechanism was mounted on wood.
How can you unequivocally say that? What is your evidence for this other than it's a wood screw? Was there a piece of wood attached to them when they were found? Were there traces of wood found on them? Just trying to keep things honest with the facts that's all.
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I'd be interested to see if anything similar has been found in the village. I'm thinking of these as 'latches' for screens/windows on houses like the village and also for Gallagher/Planters over near the 7 site.
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The screw is a wood screw so the mechanism was mounted on wood.
How can you unequivocally say that? What is your evidence for this other than it's a wood screw? Was there a piece of wood attached to them when they were found? Were there traces of wood found on them? Just trying to keep things honest with the facts that's all.
I choose to think that you meant to say "Just trying to keep things accurate...."
Nothing was attached to either artifact when they were found. The wood screw associated with the bent "gidgie" has material that appears to be wood imbedded in the threads. Curiously, the threads of the identical wood screw associated with the round "gidgie" have no such impactions and are quite clean.
My interpretation is that the screw on the bent artifact was pried out ( thus bending the artifact) and the other one was unscrewed.
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...and now for the sake of brainstorming (and hoping some might dig into old photos to look for possibilities, etc...) - I've long 'seen' these things as some sort of improvised combination anti-rotation / anchor that might have been mounted to the wood flooring in the Lockheed...
Reckless of me, pure conjecture - I know, but in the interest of spurring interest and a review of whatever material might be seen...
These things REEK airplane - and makeshift to meet some impromptu need, as well - such as could EASILY be the case for a one-off use mission, like produced by hand in a shop somewhere along the way to secure some oddball something while flying around the world in an overloaded Lockheed...
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These things REEK airplane - and makeshift to meet some impromptu need, as well - such as could EASILY be the case for a one-off use mission, like produced by hand in a shop somewhere along the way to secure some oddball something while flying around the world in an overloaded Lockheed...
But why would she/he remove them from the airplane and take them all the way to the Seven Site? What possible utility could they have to a castaway?
I see them as being a home-grown modification to the sextant box (which we KNOW was at the Seven Site). Recall that Harold Gatty, a world class navigator, said of the sextant box, "... that it was used latterly merely as a receptacle." Why would he say that? What was there about the box that told Gatty that it had been used not to carry a sextant but merely as a box to carry things in?
Brandis sextant boxes are outfitted with all kinds of wooden compartments and dividers. If you wanted to use the box "merely as a receptacle" they would get in the way. Did Gatty see a box that had been gutted of its interior features?
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A home grown modification to the Sextant Box that was found in the same area makes sense to me.
As for the modification
I'm thinking outside the box (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,1187.msg24832.html#msg24832). ;D
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The screw is a wood screw so the mechanism was mounted on wood.
The wood screw associated with the bent "gidgie" has material that appears to be wood imbedded in the threads. Curiously, the threads of the identical wood screw associated with the round "gidgie" have no such impactions and are quite clean.
My interpretation is that the screw on the bent artifact was pried out ( thus bending the artifact) and the other one was unscrewed.
A few different ideas for why one may have been pulled out and one unscrewed (shoulder strap hypothesis related):
1. The strap may have been meant to be used over one shoulder in a casual way and was a short length, but if the castaway wanted to carry other things or was injured and traveling with a crutch, then he/she may have pulled it over their head and under one arm and bent out one by stretching the strap away from the box. The longer one would bend easier due to more leverage.
2. Based on the bird and fish bone evidence, the Castaway seemed to have stopped moving for some time. The strap no longer useful for to carry places, may have then been removed for some other use.
3. Pulling one out instead of unscrewing it could mean a lack of time to unscrew both. A strap could be used in an emergency to stop bleeding. Lots of small sharks in the Lagoon
4. One may have eventually failed, or partially failed, by pulling out so the other became useless and was unscrewed.
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These things REEK airplane - and makeshift to meet some impromptu need, as well - such as could EASILY be the case for a one-off use mission, like produced by hand in a shop somewhere along the way to secure some oddball something while flying around the world in an overloaded Lockheed...
But why would she/he remove them from the airplane and take them all the way to the Seven Site? What possible utility could they have to a castaway?
I see them as being a home-grown modification to the sextant box (which we KNOW was at the Seven Site). Recall that Harold Gatty, a world class navigator, said of the sextant box, "... that it was used latterly merely as a receptacle." Why would he say that? What was there about the box that told Gatty that it had been used not to carry a sextant but merely as a box to carry things in?
Brandis sextant boxes are outfitted with all kinds of wooden compartments and dividers. If you wanted to use the box "merely as a receptacle" they would get in the way. Did Gatty see a box that had been gutted of its interior features?
Certainly possible, Ric, as are lots of things. I'm not throwing darts at the sextant box idea - I remember that and of course it is possible.
But so might someone remove a floor board and transport it for some reason - something to sit or sleep on, or for rudimentary shade - or any number of other reasons, and organic stuff like wood doesn't last long on Niku, does it? So we could be seeing the remnants after the wood 'went away' -
Which doesn't fully account easily for the presence of wood fibers still evident in one piece, but not the other - unless they were removed from the wood deliberately by different means (unscrewing in one case, prying in the other). Or perhaps that was happenstance - one screw could have had a somewhat loose fit originally and never 'took up' much bite from the wood, whereas the one with fibers remaining may have been more tightly bound into the parent structure.
All ideas at this point in my view. And I've heard from one fellow off-forum who says he seen this kind of stuff all over the place... but what continues to stick out to me is 'yeah, but aircraft aluminum?' OK, could have been made from aircraft scraps (I'd say 'it is') and we have a number of examples of that from Niku, not necessarily from the Electra - but despite that wise fellow's general observation, these are still peculiarly 'purpose built' for something that may have well been a bit more athletic or dynamic than ordinary household use -
And a sextant box might fit that, as might securing something to the floor of the Electra - or any number of similar things.
My point was simply to stir interest in looking at possibilities: there could yet be a photo clue out there somewhere.
And the sextant box idea makes sense - it would be far more easily transported and would have far more obvious utility value, in my opinion, than a floor board.
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And I've heard from one fellow off-forum who says he seen this kind of stuff all over the place...
Lots people say that but, so far, nobody has come up with anything that has:
- a wood screw in a hole in
- an aluminum plate with
- little saw teeth and
- a second smaller, but empty, hole
This is reminiscent of the discussions about 2-2-V-1 and the lotion bottle. To have a viable ID all the features must be present.
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And I've heard from one fellow off-forum who says he seen this kind of stuff all over the place...
Lots people say that but, so far, nobody has come up with anything that has:- a wood screw in a hole in
- an aluminum plate with
- little saw teeth and
- a second smaller, but empty, hole
This is reminiscent of the discussions about 2-2-V-1 and the lotion bottle. To have a viable ID all the features must be present.
Agreed, and with due respect to the fellow, my point exactly: these things remain oddly unique among all else I've seen suggested, no one has put up anything close "from the outside".
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Has the wood sample found with the screw been checked out (if possible) to determine type of wood. I guess a sextant box would be made from a hardwood, which in itself would be rarer on the island as most trees except Kanawa are softwood.
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All,
Do we have a picture of the note passing pole used by AE/FN?
Ted Campbell
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Good thought, Ted... we need to look at that.
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There is a pretty good view of it in this video @ 2:30
http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675063657_Amelia-Earhart-Putnam_Fred-Noonan_transatlantic-flight_Fred-Noonan (http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675063657_Amelia-Earhart-Putnam_Fred-Noonan_transatlantic-flight_Fred-Noonan)
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Nice find, Jeff Victor.
Was that pole bamboo?
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I beleive it is often refered to as Bamboo.
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I beleive it is often refered to as Bamboo.
As I looked at this it seemed to be, and now I recall what you say - yes, believe it was.
Therefore, if the wood fibers evident in the gidgy screw are not bamboo, we may have a dead-end on the schtick, as it were. But it was a cool idea.
What kind of wood are sextant cases typically made of?
I'm sure there may have been variants, but is there a predominant type? Are there only a very few types that would have been used?
Can the fibers in the screw threads be identified as to type?
Can trace elements of 'other stuff' in the wood fibers be determined, i.e. are there elements of stuff used in plywood, or would these have been screwed into a solid piece of wood perhaps?
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Typically it was referred to as a 'fishing pole'. I guess that is an American term for a 'fishing rod'. In the 1930's these were invariably made from wood called split cane, very durable and tough. I used to own one which I used for carp fishing and it comfortably managed to handle 30+ pound carp without any problems.
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These are all questions that can probably be answered but, to invoke Fowler's Maxim, "Questions are cheap. Answers are expensive."
In the absence of unlimited funding we're always having to ask ourselves, "Is it worth the cost of finding out?"
Let's say we were able to identify the material that is stuck in the threads. If it is bamboo that would be interesting. (Bamboo is not wood. It's a grass.) If it's the same kind of wood that Brandis sextant boxes are made from that would also be interesting. But would either finding move the investigation forward? Yes, a little bit. Enough to justify the cost in time and money? Probably not.
These photos show the putative wood jammed in the threads of the one screw. Not much to go on.
Another interesting observation: The slots on the screws show damage from tightening. Somebody really honked down on them.
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Good points.
Is that old silver paint on these, or just a slight illusion suggesting that?
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Good points.
Is that old silver paint on these, or just a slight illusion suggesting that?
I don't see any indication of paint. They seem to be bare metal with dirt on them in places.
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There appears to be a filament caught under the screw of the smaller one. In "screw-heads" image attached to this post (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,308.msg31749.html#msg31749)
How soon after discovery was that picture taken?
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How soon after discovery was that picture taken?
About 13 years. That's a scan I did this morning.
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Do I see remnants of solder on the more round one? Suggestive of having wire attached to it at some point?
Re having seen this kind of stuff all over the place: I as well could say that, as I'm sure many could. Looks just like something I remember seeing, or rather more to the point, would have seen, in the boxes and piles of miscellaneous crap on my dad's work bench when I was growing up. There's just something so familiar about them.
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There appears to be a filament caught under the screw of the smaller one. In "screw-heads" image attached to this post (http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,308.msg31749.html#msg31749)
How soon after discovery was that picture taken?
Not sure about significance of filiment (whether original to the find or something picked-up along the way), but as to the 'eye' effect on the smaller, open holes (both parts exhibit this) - this is an effect of hand-drilling with a power tool. I commented on this feature some time ago regarding these parts.
When hand-drilling with a high-speed bit it is common to get 'chatter' - a rapid oscillation of the drill bit tip as it begins to purchase into the material. As the hole deepens the bit tip tends to stabilize and the end result is the mostly round hole we see that goes all the way through.
Having done a good bit of hand-drilling on small pieces that are also hand-held with grips (or a vice if one has it handy enough, but not always near when needed) these parts appear to me to have been drilled with a power tool (how much of that was happening on Gardner?). Further, this appears to have been done 'on the fly', i.e. someone needed an improvised 'gidgy' for some reason and roughed these out very nicely but in quick fashion on a limited workbench, if not plane-side. The teeth could easily be produced with a common bastard file of some fairness - the apex of the notches is not acute beyond 90 degrees.
These don't seem like they were produced on Gardner for at least some of these reasons. There are examples of things that were apparently done on Gardner, like a metal comb, etc. Maybe some of the tooling marks among these things can be compared to determine more about possible cottage-origins for the 'gidgies' on Niku, or not, but my strong suspicion is they were not made there.
So, IMO - not only are these made of aviation-grade material (wood screws excepted), they bear the marks of aviation hand-work including hand-drilling with a high-speed bit in a power drill.
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Do I see remnants of solder on the more round one? Suggestive of having wire attached to it at some point?
Re having seen this kind of stuff all over the place: I as well could say that, as I'm sure many could. Looks just like something I remember seeing, or rather more to the point, would have seen, in the boxes and piles of miscellaneous crap on my dad's work bench when I was growing up. There's just something so familiar about them.
Sharp observation, Tim.
What you refer to as 'remnants of solder' was part of what suggested 'paint' to me - it does look like some material caked-onto the surface and not migrated metal from rough handling.
As to solder - I don't think aluminum alloys accept solder tinning well - one wouldn't solder to aluminum in my experience. The norm is to use some mechanical means to bond to aluminum.
As to 'commonality' - having wracked my own small brain for 'where I've seen these before' all I can add is that I too have more than one junk box chock full of 'useful odds and ends' that seldom find true life again, but lie dusty in a bin somewhere. Those kinds of things are irresistible to the mechanically-minded: once we've had to improvise a few things along the way we learn to hoard 'useful little things' as we can imagine all sorts of useful applications - and tend to remember the pain and time spent to fabricate some special little widget to fix some need.
I've got some old rusty anti-rotation flap roller lock tabs among my stuff that are similar - discarded when new rollers installed on some transport many years ago. The new rollers always came with fresh lock tabs - the big hole is 'keyed' to lock the roller shaft from rotation, and the extended tab has a small hole for safety wire. On quick examination, not the 'same thing', but close in concept. Hence I believe the memory of many little gidgies along the way crawl to the fore as we rifle our memories and imaginations for 'what these are'.
They remain mysterious to me - but clearly hand-fashioned by someone with some aviation grade skills and tools: attention was paid to edge distance, radii and uniform teeth-cutting, de-burring is evident and the tool marks, including drill chatter consistent with high-speed bit, etc., all suggest quick but good hand-work by a good smith on a somewhat limited bench.
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Did these two artifacts come, separately, from the Norwich City whilst attached to broken timber? Blown across the lagoon to run aground at the far side. Amelie saw a use and retrieved them.
Therefore its a question of where were they used on a freighter? There are many possibilities. Laundry and drying equipment, or galley crockery/utensil/equipment storage racking? Early 1900s vessels used a lot of timber raking, drawers, shelves, etc all made with rough-weather features/securings.
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The oval gidgie appears to my eyes to have a faint "star" outline, just visible centered on the screw-hole and continuing the same tooth pitch as the teeth filed into the edge. Is this just my imagination, or do others see the same thing? If it's a real mark, it means something with that shape was held against the aluminum surface but didn't leave indentations. What does that imply? A modern star-washer would have left indentations, and actually has a different shape.
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Has anyone noticed that the other hole in each peice dosn't have evidence (to me) of having anything screwed through it whereas the holes with the screws in them have what looks like wear from the screw being turned?
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Has anyone noticed that the other hole in each peice dosn't have evidence (to me) of having anything screwed through it whereas the holes with the screws in them have what looks like wear from the screw being turned?
Yes. I've long thought that the second hole was for a removable pin that may have been used to lock the device in place.
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I've always thought of the second hole being for a brad. In any case the purpose would be to prevent rotation. Removing the screw would allow the gidgie to rotate about the brad/pin/whatever. The wear marks around the screw hole may be from repeated removal, which implies occasional need to do what? Adjust something? Remove something?
I find it curious that the teeth don't appear to be bent. If they were supposed to hold something down, like a claw, then I would expect them to be bent slightly.
They remind me of a picture-frame hanger, except they're too small and the teeth are spaced wrong. The hanger I'm reminded of engages a nail in a wall, the teeth allowing repositioning left and right to get it to hang straight.
Intriguing indeed.
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These two brackets/gidgies appear to have been screwed to wood, it follows, given their size, the wood would have been significantly larger thus offer positive buoyancy and facilitating their dispersion across the lagoon. It is therefore very possible that these brackets/gidgies came from the Norwich City.
Looking for a likely use on a freighter could focus the source-search. Laundry room, drying rack, crockery storage shelving/racking, etc. They do not look as though they were originally high quality, thus less likely to have been associated with anything in, or from, chart/navigation/radio/bridge room equipment.
A superb project, Roger
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These two brackets/gidgies appear to have been screwed to wood, it follows, given their size, the wood would have been significantly larger thus offer positive buoyancy and facilitating their dispersion across the lagoon. It is therefore very possible that these brackets/gidgies came from the Norwich City.
It's possible, but previous analysis on EPAC didn't seem to point in the direction of the Norwich City, a British-built freighter. In 2002, A British researcher observed the gidgies appear American in origin.
"The nature of the plates make it virtually certain that they
were amateur made and used American screws...
The thicknesses are reasonably consistent with an American origin, either
Brown and Sharpe gages (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge) or "preferred thickness" gages. The thicknesses do
not tie in so well with a British origin as this would mean an SWG (Standard
wire gauge) thickness which lies in both cases just outside the maximum and
minimum thicknesses. It has to be said that the variation in thickness over
the plate makes a nominal thickness difficult to be certain of or even if it
is relevant, but ... The American gage (B & S) of the plates would be 17 (0.0453) and 19 (0.0359) .
Equivalent preferred thickness would be 0.036 and 0.045."
He suggested the LORAN station as one probable source but neither did he rule out the hypothesis that it was for a modification to a sextant box.
Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078C
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Yes agreed Joe, the gidgies appear to be US made. Or Canadian? Thus pointing to when the Norwich City was repaired locally after her bridge collision near Vancouver. The masts and funnel were smashed, along with bridge damage. The accident pictures, whilst good, do not clearly show what damage may have occurred below decks especially when the masts were smashed.
A brilliant project, Roger
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The gidgies are aluminum and hand-crafted. That does not seem like shipboard fare to me.
Hand-crafted may be 'amateur' - or the work of a craftsman with limited time and resources.
Other than having American screws and possibly American gage material, I couldn't begin to assume with any reliability that they are American (or Canadian) made, and obviously I personally don't see the N.C. connection anyway.
The sextant box modification seems plausible as a line of pursuit - however one can pursue it without the box. Same for these things turning up as a make-do do-dad for the interior of NR16020 if it could only be found so (maybe will surface in a picture one day that happens to capture some odd detail with these in it. Maybe they were meant to retain soft goods in the cockpit or cabin somehow. The Cabin had an expanse of what appears to have been wood decking.
Other than those guesses, it seems like a big, fat... guess, for now.
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In addition to the various uses others have suggested, the gidgies, wherever they came from, whilst still attached to a piece of timber batten, would have made a wonderful crab-killer or crab-deflector. In particular whilst laid prone sleeping such an armament would have been very effective meted out with venom when attacked. Once too weak to move however, these gidgies might have been a very sad cutting-last-stand against the crabs’ war of attrition.
A brilliant project, Roger
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They'd make good back-scratchers, too.
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This artifact has puzzled me for a long time. The Luke field inventory lists AE's radio headphones as model WE 588A which I have not been able to find a picture of online but I did find WE 528 headphones (that I hope are similar) for sale on eBay, I have attached a photo from that ad. The hook on the incoming wires to the headphone goes through a part that seems to me to be very similar to 2-6-S-03B. (edit) I added a second copy with an arrow indicating what I am talking about.
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The hook on the incoming wires to the headphone goes through a part that seems to me to be very similar to 2-6-S-03B.
That is one of the best guesses I've ever seen.
Even if it isn't the actual source of the "gidgies," it may show the kind of application they may have come from.
I've moved your post down to this thread for the sake of continuity.
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Bear in mind that the screws are wood screws and the aluminum pieces are not manufactured but are crudely fashioned. These things were make-shift homemade additions or modifications to a wooden object. My guess has always been that they are from rotatable wooden "keepers" Noonan installed in the sextant box. Earhart, as a castaway, was using the box to carry stuff and she ripped out keepers because they were in the way - bending one of them in the process. The wooden blocks they were originally attached to eventually rotted away leaving only the aluminum plates and brass screws.
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Wood screws don't have to mean wood was used, I assume the cup of those earphones were bakelite, if you google "wood screws and bakelite" you get links to a host of articles from Popular Mechanics and Popular Science from the 1920s and 1930s which outline how to build different types of radios etc, in almost every case they suggest that the bakelite parts be attached using wood screws after drilling an initial pilot hole.
However, Ric, I admit your idea makes more sense. I cannot picture a reason why AE or FN would have taken the headphones from the plane and if they had why would they have dismantled it and why was no bakelite and other headphone parts found at the 7 site with the gidgies.
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It's more than 120 days but revisiting these “Gidgies” and the previous theory they might be related to the Sextant Box.
We know now the Sextant Box was left behind during the Bushnell Survey, but their survey team didn’t report seeing a body or camp.
So let’s assume the Sextant Box was left behind some distance away from the Seven Site. Possibly close to the nearest point marked along the lagoon on the Bushnell survey map.
A scenario could be the Gidgies, handmade from aluminum sheet, are related to work done on the island by colonist after the search. Possibly salvaged a crashed airplane, on Gardner or another island.
A second scenario could be a colonist in the work crew found the Bushnell sextant box. He moved it a short distance to the Seven Site where they found the skull. He unscrewed the “Gidgies” there. Then he started to use it as merely a receptacle. When an extensive search was ordered he realized it was important and reported he had found the box earlier. He also added information that he threw away what might have been part of an eyepiece. In that scenario the sextant box and these artifacts could still be related. But the extensive search party didn’t find the parts he unscrewed, and there are no reports that the finder told them about unscrewing them.
A third scenario could be that the Bushnell Survey team was using one of their older sextant boxes as merely a receptacle for odd parts from the start. It wasn’t missed by the survey party at any of the other survey points marked near the lagoon because it didn’t contain a sextant for their survey work. The box was found by colonist during their extensive search near the survey point along the lagoon shore where the Bushnell team left it. The finder claims he threw away part of a broken eyepiece that was with it. In this scenario the “Gidgies” artifacts found decades later, don’t seem related to the old Bushnell sextant box.
If related to Earhart, what wood object might Earhart haul across the island that could have the Gidgies? Possibly a repurposed wood toolbox on the plane that may have been taken or floated to shore?
The Gidgies still seem like strap fasteners for a wood box to me. There are two of them. They have wood screws. The jagged teeth with slightly rounded tips intended to spread out the forces on the leather strap so a single hole doesn’t stretch too wide like on the average worn out leather pants belt.
As noted before, the image with Earhart and Noonan sitting under the tail of the Electra has a box with a strap.
https://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/digital/collection/earhart/id/327/rec/348
Commenters on the theory that this box may have strap fasteners noted that it made no sense for it to be the sextant box. It seemed like it was just a toolbox. I was never married to the Sextant Box theory. The Gidgies could be from another box. That toolbox.
That theory still intrigues me because of one of the Gidgies is bent and the strap on the box in the Earhart/ Noonan image looks forced out, like its fastener is bent.
I’m interested to hear what could be possible uses for these Gidgies now that we have new information regarding the circumstances of the Bushnell sextant box?
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While I'm inclined to think the gidgies have nothing to do with the sextant box, the idea that the box's re-use as a receptacle may have been done by the Bushnell crew is interesting. While we know that a sextant bearing that number was issued to the Bushnell, we don't know what happened to it, or to any of the ship's other sextants. If there is a record, it hasn't been found.
Examination of the gidgies, as described in this thread, suggests an origin in an aircraft repair shop, by someone who was skilled and using hand tools to make them. We know of one instance in which the Electra was worked on in such a shop, which is when the window was replaced by the patch in Miami. Could these be associated with that, or made for some other purpose at that time? This doesn't answer what they were for or how they got to where they were found. Just a thought.
LTM,
Don
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Examination of the gidgies, as described in this thread, suggests an origin in an aircraft repair shop, by someone who was skilled and using hand tools to make them. We know of one instance in which the Electra was worked on in such a shop, which is when the window was replaced by the patch in Miami. Could these be associated with that, or made for some other purpose at that time?
Made in a shop makes sense.
Let’s consider the scenario where a Colonist or a Loran Station USCG member made the Gidgies in a shop.
Colonist made combs and inlays from salvaged aluminum sheet, so the material, skill and tools were available.
However, these Gidgies seem made for a very specific purpose and some time was expended making them in a shop.
They were then moved some distance away from the shop and were left in the same small spot that a compact mirror, 1930’s era zipper pull, pocketknife, Freckle cream jar were found?
Based on its provenance I think it is very unlikely that after making them for a very specific purpose they just happened to be left at that exact spot.
If not from a Colonist, USCG or the Bushnell sextant box (being from the Bushnell Survey suggests it was not in sight of Castaway body), I think the leading candidate is The Castaway.
Since The Castaway didn’t have a shop, it must have been brought there having already been made elsewhere.
One of Earhart’s airplane mechanics seem to be good candidates for making them.
In considering the Miami patch work. There may have been an opportunity to secure something to that panel on the inside after it was installed. Maybe something that hooked on or latched on to a stringer that could also be easily detached.
So what object, possibly wood (wood screws), would an airplane mechanic make aluminum latches or grips for that Earhart would want to haul across the island?
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As was thought regarding the Sextant Box, any repurposed wood box could be used to keep small crabs away from food and therefore useful to carry around the island.
If once at the Seven Site, the strap fasteners or securing clips were removed from a wood box for another purpose, could larger crabs carry it off?
Have the Coconut crabs tried to carry off food containers in previous expeditions?
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Well, the crabs will pretty much try to carry off anything they can that has any kind of food value - tin foil, wrappers, cardboard food boxes, etc, but I don't think they have much interest in a sextant box by itself unless there was some residual food still attached. I don't see crabs moving a sextant box very far, and a bigger box would be very difficult for them to move. When everything dries out, they'd loose interest.
The Gigdies are a conundrum. On one hand they seem to be well crafted, which does not speak castaway to me. On the other hand, we can't figure out what they were used for, so could be related.
Personally, I think they were used to hold screening in place on a wood frame, with an action where the teeth are rotated into place to hold the screen. That says colony to me, and I'm imagining the island carpenter making a screens for "Gallagher's House" at the 7 site, and using some aluminum he found to make the screen holding gidgies.
Then there are the US made wood screws, so that shifts my thoughts to screens at the Coast Guard station.
Andrew
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The possible scenario I was considering was there may have been a second wood box, possibly a toolbox configured by American aircraft mechanics to be strapped or secured to the plane by the gidgies. They would have access to both aluminum skin and American screws. The theory being the box was taken off the plane and used by Earhart as a food container after becoming a castaway.
One of the problems with that theory is no 2nd box was found in the search by the Colonist. But if small enough, and it had food in it, maybe Coconut crabs carried it off after the gidgies were removed. Or it was burned.
We now know the Sextant box had nothing to do with Earhart. It may still have a relation to the gidgies.
Another thing that bothers me about the box in the photo of AE and FN under the tail is that box has a strap that we can see is not centered on any axis of it. If it is the only strap (the box looks kind of small to need two straps), carrying the box would be very awkward. If the strap was just intended to hold the box to a web or stringer while sitting on the cabin floor that would not be an issue. It could be a can though. Would be interested to know what work they were doing to the tail wheel.
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Studying that photo closely including clicking on it to enlarge it, I don't see a box with a strap. Maybe I am missing something. I do see, at the left edge and cut off by the edge, what looks to me like a square tin of oil, possibly with an attached handle to make pouring easier.
There are two white cylinders I can't identify. At first I thought they were tea mugs (as the empty Coke bottle show that the people were enjoying some refreshment in the shade of the wing) but the upper one looks more like it might be an open tin of grease. This might indicate what was being done to the tail wheel, which has been lifted up on stacked blocks of wood so it can be moved while being worked on.
Most interesting in light of the present discussion, there is a pair of tin snips on the ground, such as would be used to cut thin sheet metal, such as aluminum. What service on the tail wheel would require those?
LTM,
Don
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Don, I don’t think you missed anything. You gave a very helpful breakdown. The “box” could be a tin or “can” as others have said.
If you imagine the light colored area where a fastener might be as not actually being anything (a possible digital artifact), then to me the handle for pouring or strap becomes a possible cap resting on the concrete in the background .
Years ago I ordered 2 additional scans of this photo from Purdue. Each one having a higher resolution. Each one of the 3 images showed something there but were simply different blurs.
Despite all the tools around I now don’t think that box/ can is a toolbox. Maybe there is one just off frame. I’ve searched other photos on the Purdue Archives for what might be a toolbox and there are a few possibilities. One of them looks like a large flimsy cardboard box is being used. A possible weight savings but not a very secure thing if just placed at the back of the plane.
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"Would be interested to know what work they were doing to the tail wheel."
Possibly working on the swivel bearings in the tailwheel strut assembly?
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In addition to a tool kit, the Luke Field inventory lists a 5lb and 10lb can of mobilgrease.
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The (approximately) gallon-size oil can at the left edge has sides that come up above the top, and the cap is just at the edge of the frame. There are photos of Earhart and Noonan next to the airplane (loading or unloading) that show this type of can. What I haven't seen elsewhere is a can with a handle on the side as this one appears to have. This includes my 55 years of experience around 1920s-30s cars and things that go with them, and some web research I did just now looking for images. Whether it is part of the can, or an attached strap around it, or something else looking like part of it, I can't say for certain, but it looks like something attached to the can, based on reflections I can see (I enlarged the image as far as possible, which is quite a lot). It seems like it would be a useful addition to a big oil can, to hold when pouring, and it's where I would want it to be, where the cap would be at the upper edge of the front (it's easier to control the pouring in that position). The airplane (I assume) needed engine oil, grease for wheel bearings and anything else that was greased (possibly a different grease from wheel bearing grease), hydraulic fluid, and whatever fluid the landing gear shocks used. They had at least some of this along for at least some of the trip.
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https://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/digital/collection/earhart/id/904/rec/389
Don, Is the photo in the link above the photo you are referencing with same type of cans?
Regarding the sides extending up like on a can. Before I had thought the shadow of the extended edge of one side was a shadow of a white cylindrical object on top of the container. And a white label was on top of the box. I can see it being the shadow of the edge of the can extending up though. And what I thought was a label just the shiny top of the can.
I've never seen a can with a thick(not the wire type) handle or strap on the side either. I have seen many with thick metal handles on the top. I imagine a thick protruding handle on the side would not be good for packing units from the manufacturer in a larger case for shipping.
So if it is a handle, it seems like a custom modification. Maybe this modification includes some kind of wrap that is hiding labels of the can as well. The offset location does make sense for pouring. To be related to the artifact, a wrap around the can would have to be thicker than it appears possible due to the length of the wood screws. And it would make sense if the can had something you could drink. Maybe for the cup you noticed, a stretch I know. It does seem like they really want to get out of the sun and were hydrating.
https://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/digital/collection/earhart/id/327/rec/348
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I think the photo of AE holding the Mobil grease can is the one that Tighar used to estimate the length of her arm bones and was part of Dr Jantz’s analysis that provided strong evidence that bone measurements were consistent with AE’s bones. As part of that research Tighar obtained one of those cans.
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https://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/digital/collection/earhart/id/904/rec/389
Don, Is the photo in the link above the photo you are referencing with same type of cans?
No, the can in the under-the-wing photo looks like a gallon can such as you see today with solvents in it. Think of a can of mineral spirits at your local paint store. The can of Mobilubricant held by Amelia is square seen from above, and not as tall. It also has a wire bail handle and a large pry-out lid to the grease can be scooped out. At the far right on the ground in that same photo is a gallon "paint" can also containing lubricant, and inside the airplane can be seen what looks to me like a quart of engine oil. As I recall in this picture they were removing things "not wanted on voyage" for the last legs, to save weight. It appears that they had brought along some spare parts as well as some supplies that they could not be certain of finding en route. This is interesting (that they carried supplies such as heavy cans of grease), since their stops were often places with aircraft service facilities, of which they made use as needed.
I've never seen a can with a thick(not the wire type) handle or strap on the side either. I have seen many with thick metal handles on the top. I imagine a thick protruding handle on the side would not be good for packing units from the manufacturer in a larger case for shipping.
That hadn't occurred to me, that the handle would interfere with packing, but makes sense why handles would only be on the top.
So if it is a handle, it seems like a custom modification. Maybe this modification includes some kind of wrap that is hiding labels of the can as well. The offset location does make sense for pouring. To be related to the artifact, a wrap around the can would have to be thicker than it appears possible due to the length of the wood screws. And it would make sense if the can had something you could drink. Maybe for the cup you noticed, a stretch I know. It does seem like they really want to get out of the sun and were hydrating.
https://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/digital/collection/earhart/id/327/rec/348
I don't think the cup was used for drinking -- it just looked at first glance like a tea mug. And I'm thinking there might have been a removable strap around the large can, but again I've not seen those either. So I don't know what it is.
LTM,
Don
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I’ve searched other photos on the Purdue Archives for what might be a toolbox and there are a few possibilities. One of them looks like a large flimsy cardboard box is being used. A possible weight savings but not a very secure thing if just placed at the back of the plane.
I went looking through all the photos in the Purdue Archive online for anything that showed cans or boxes or whatever. I did see the one with a cardboard box apparently containing tools. I doubt they would routinely keep tools in a cardboard box. What it looks like to me is that the spare parts they needed came in that box, and they put the tools they would need in the box with the parts to keep everything together. I do this when I'm working on a car, especially when I am not working in or near my own workshop.
I was interested to see, in the photos, that her fuel drums were stenciled with her name. Also note the variety of people working on or around aircraft in the far reaches of Empire.
LTM,
Don
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David Billings has these thoughts:
In the photo, look over AE's right shoulder and by her right arm. There are skid marks on the concrete.
Could it possibly be that the Tailwheel castoring Lock-pin refused to release after landing and roll-out and that in parking the Electra in a right-hand turn she deposited rubber (or possibly worse) and/or bent the Lock-pin ?
Could the mystery box on the extreme left be a toolbox, specifically containing 'special tools' required for servicing the tailwheel assembly ?
The back-end has been lifted up and rests on the jacking/tie-down point. I suspect Lock-pin trouble....
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David Billings has these thoughts: ...
The back-end has been lifted up and rests on the jacking/tie-down point. I suspect Lock-pin trouble....
It may be pareidolia, but I think someone is lying on the ground and fussing with something aft of the tie-down point while the other three folks are enjoying the shade.
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It may be pareidolia, but I think someone is lying on the ground and fussing with something aft of the tie-down point while the other three folks are enjoying the shade.
Unless the mechanic in the foreground has a very long and oddly jointed left arm there is definitely someone lying on the ground and fussing with something aft of the tie-down point.
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This may seem like an odd question but how did they flush and how did they wash hands in the lav?
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This may seem like an odd question but how did they flush and how did they wash hands in the lav?
According to the Lockheed sales description of the Model 10:
"The lavatory aft of the cabin is lighted, ventilated and heated. Communication from this compartment may be had with the pilot by means of a call button. Venting is so arranged that no odors can be transmitted to the cabin. Equipment of this compartment includes a wash basin, water tank, large mirror, towel rack, paper holder, and a stool that closes automatically and is vented separately to the outside air."
So there was no flush provision. The stool was in the left (port side) rear corner of the compartment. The wash basin and water tank were normally in the right (starboard side) forward corner of the compartment but they may not have been present in NR16020 to make room for the big navigator's window (later patch). I can also see Earhart not wanting the weight of a tank of water.
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I wonder if after the window was patched, or maybe before, there was a need to strap a small can to at least wash hands. A small detachable water can is something that would make sense to haul across the island.
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I wonder if after the window was patched, or maybe before, there was a need to strap a small can to at least wash hands. A small detachable water can is something that would make sense to haul across the island.
Nothing like that has been found at the Seven Site. Aluminum should have survived. A can of thin steel would be long gone.
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Assuming there was a metal water container that was taken there and understanding that the colonist didn't report finding it, it could have been left somewhere else to collect water, like at an existing water catch, when it rained.
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That bottle just left of the gentleman in the white coverall and to the right of the shears/snips sure looks like a Coke bottle.
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So there was no flush provision.
According to an old aviation magazine....well, I read it along time ago and it was a current copy at the time but I digress...in an article on the Ford Tri-motor, the author remarked the lavatory gave the user a "bombardier's view of the countryside below".
Eeeep!
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That bottle just left of the gentleman in the white coverall and to the right of the shears/snips sure looks like a Coke bottle.
There are two unmistakable Coke bottles in the picture. The other is in shadow a few inches to the left of the one in sunlight, both close to the wood blocks under the tail. Their presence is one reason I thought the white cylinder on the ground nearby might be a mug.
LTM,
Don
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It may be pareidolia, but I think someone is lying on the ground and fussing with something aft of the tie-down point while the other three folks are enjoying the shade.
Unless the mechanic in the foreground has a very long and oddly jointed left arm there is definitely someone lying on the ground and fussing with something aft of the tie-down point.
I see five people in the picture. Two are lying down under the tail and working on the tail wheel, two are Earhart and Noonan, and the fifth is the man in white with his back to the camera.
Is it known where this was taken or who the three people besides Earhart and Noonan are? The man in white looks like he could be the same man in white who is in the picture of Amelia holding the Mobilubricant, standing with his hand on the cabin door, which is stated (by Purdue) to have been taken in Darwin.
LTM,
Don
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David Billings has these thoughts:
In the photo, look over AE's right shoulder and by her right arm. There are skid marks on the concrete.
Could it possibly be that the Tailwheel castoring Lock-pin refused to release after landing and roll-out and that in parking the Electra in a right-hand turn she deposited rubber (or possibly worse) and/or bent the Lock-pin ?
Could the mystery box on the extreme left be a toolbox, specifically containing 'special tools' required for servicing the tailwheel assembly ?
The back-end has been lifted up and rests on the jacking/tie-down point. I suspect Lock-pin trouble....
In TIGHAR's vast library of Electra information, is there a service manual or the like, describing the procedures for working on the tail wheel? So that we would know what they needed to do and what parts, supplies and tools were required. Also is there any record of this being performed on this Electra?
LTM,
Don
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This thread started with at attempt to identify the gidgies, and included speculation about where they might have been made, including that the Coast Guard Loran station personnel might have made them. I had the opportunity recently to ask my father, a retired Coast Guard officer whose career began a few years after these events (1943), about this possibility. His first command was a Loran C station at Cape Christian, Baffin Island. While later in time and far in distance and different in climate from Gardner Island, I explained what we were investigating and asked if they had a workshop or facilities to make such things. Unfortunately he is nearly totally blind now and I could not show him a picture of the items. He said they had no workshop as such and the station and equipment were brought in ready to assemble. His crew did not build the station itself (a construction crew was sent in to do this), but set up the equipment that they were going to operate and maintain.
Which brings up --what is known about the buildings that the Gardner station had? I know this information may have been gathered as part of the interviews that were done with station veterans.
My theory is still that these artifacts were made in an aviation facility, either as part of building the Electra or as a subsequent modification or repair.
LTM,
Don
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There is this photo from the Ameliapedia and this information
"Two storage huts, a galley, and a mess hall, the crew‟s quarters, and the officers‟ quarters, and a tower of creosoted piling 20 feet long, for two 3000-gallon wood storage tanks was erected as a water supply system. This provided a gravity-feed fresh water supply to the galley and lavatories. Brackish water, from a well blasted in the coral, was evaporated, and pumped to one of the elevated tanks, to supply the water closets. Rain water was caught in gutters on four huts and stored in a 7000- gallon concrete cistern, constituting an additional source of fresh water.
Electric power for the Loran equipment and the station buildings was provided by three 13.75 KVA diesel driven generators, and one 15 KW direct current generator, using a bank of batteries for starting purposes. All cable was buried, with the lines to the huts running along the front of the buildings."