TIGHAR

Amelia Earhart Search Forum => General discussion => Topic started by: Ric Gillespie on February 07, 2018, 09:50:28 AM

Title: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on February 07, 2018, 09:50:28 AM
Dr. Jantz's paper has been published. 

“This analysis reveals that Earhart is more similar to the Nikumaroro bones than 99% of individuals in a large reference sample.”

“Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - A 1941 Analysis versus Modern Quantitative Techniques” is open access and can be downloaded at http://journals.upress.ufl.edu/fa/article/view/525

Richard L. Jantz PhD, is Professor Emeritus and Director Emeritus at the University of Tennessee Forensic Anthropology Center. The university’s Anthropological Research Facility, famously known as “The Body Farm,” was founded by Dr. William Bass. The donated body program was established in 1981 as a means of studying factors that affect human decomposition and to develop a skeletal collection of modern Americans. Many of the skeletons used to characterize Amelia Earhart were from the donated collection.

In 2005, Richard Jantz and Stephen Ousley created Fordisc, a computer program for estimating sex, ancestry, and stature from skeletal measurements. Now in version 3.1, Fordisc, is used by nearly every board certified forensic anthropologist in the United States and many around the world.

The full press release is on the TIGHAR homepage.  (https://tighar.org)
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Matt Revington on February 07, 2018, 11:32:01 AM
I just  finished my first read through of the paper, very impressive both in the explanation of the source of possible errors in Hoodless's work and in the high degree of probability that the bones were AE's.  Unless a qualified forensic anthropologist can find significant errors in Jantz's methodology it is very hard to conceive of a reasonable argument against AE being on Niku. In particular when this data is combined with the other archaeological evidence gathered by TIGHAR over the years it is really  overwhelming.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on February 07, 2018, 11:52:58 AM
Unless a qualified forensic anthropologist can find significant errors in Jantz's methodology it is very hard to conceive of a reasonable argument against AE being on Niku. In particular when this data is combined with the other archaeological evidence gathered by TIGHAR over the years it is really  overwhelming.

I agree, and it's hard to imagine anyone more qualified than Jantz to make this assessment.  It will be interesting to see how the media respond.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jon Romig on February 09, 2018, 01:04:45 PM
The paper is extraordinary and quite authoritative. Everything that was promised and more. I have this odd feeling that TIGHAR's job is now complete, even though I know it is not.

Unfortunately early media reports are positioning this as just another bit of noise in the AE cacophony. We will see if later, more considered articles will recognize the extraordinary significance of this analysis.

I wish there were a summary of the issues addressed in the paper, with a key to their significance, determinative probability, etc. I may try to create one myself.

I do have a question about the body weight: why would we trust people's judgement of what she "should" weigh based upon a few mostly-clothed images, over the weight on her pilot's license? And how important is her weight to the analysis after all - is it just to suggest her bone structure may have been more stocky than expected?

The waist size from her trousers was a great find, by the way. Kudos to the team.

Rick, I believe that you mentioned a few weeks ago that TIGHAR would be publishing additional related material concurrently with the paper. Are we still to expect that?

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this. I can't express enough my satisfaction.

Jon
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on February 09, 2018, 01:47:22 PM
I do have a question about the body weight: why would we trust people's judgement of what she "should" weigh based upon a few mostly-clothed images, over the weight on her pilot's license?

We wouldn't trust just anyone's judgement but Richard Jantz does this all the time as part of his work.

And how important is her weight to the analysis after all - is it just to suggest her bone structure may have been more stocky than expected?

Yes, it's an important point.

The waist size from her trousers was a great find, by the way. Kudos to the team.

Thanks. It was a team effort.  Richard said it would be good to have her waist size.  I remembered that Purdue has a pair of trousers.  Fortunately, I've established an excellent relationship with the archivist and she agreed to let us take measurements of the trousers and a jacket.  Gary Quigg recruited a friend who is an experienced seamstress and expert in historical clothing.  They went to Purdue and got extensive measurements of both garments. We. of course, gave a copy to Purdue so that they won't have to handle the garments again for that purpose.

Rick, I believe that you mentioned a few weeks ago that TIGHAR would be publishing additional related material concurrently with the paper. Are we still to expect that?

All three papers - Jantz's, mine, and Tom King's are in the new TIGHAR Tracks. Members who get it as a PDF already have theirs.  The paper journal will go out early next week, but we've put the three papers plus the infamous Cross/Wright critique on the TIGHAR website at https://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/BonesForensicAnalysis/BonesForensicAnalysis.html
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Joe Cerniglia on February 09, 2018, 03:07:04 PM
As a listing of papers specifically about the bones, the new web page is accurate enough, but Tom King's "The Archaeological Context of the 1940 Nikumaroro Bones Discovery" was omitted from the list. I don't make those decisions, and I'm guessing it was simply an oversight. But I'm curious as to whether that was meant to create exclusivity to members, or some other reason.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078R
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on February 09, 2018, 03:40:18 PM
But I'm curious as to whether that was meant to create exclusivity to members, or some other reason.

Normally we don't put the contents of TIGHAR Tracks up on the website until a month after the members get their copies, but in this case, due to the high level of interest in the Jantz paper, we decided to put all of the papers associated with the bone measurements and the British investigation up on the website in one place right away.  Tom King's paper is about archaeology and will go in the archaeology section in the next few days.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Joe Cerniglia on February 09, 2018, 04:11:45 PM
Thank you. That sounds reasonable.

I've enjoyed this edition of TIGHAR Tracks and highly recommend anyone with a lapsed membership to renew so they can receive one.

Curious as to whether pilots on the Forum remember having been measured for height as a license requirement. Documents I've found seem to indicate height is just something you fill in on the form, and the 1928 agenda for pilot medical exams doesn't even mention height. Just curious.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078R
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on February 09, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
Curious as to whether pilots on the Forum remember having been measured for height as a license requirement. Documents I've found seem to indicate height is just something you fill in on the form

This will provide a data point.  This old copy of my airman's certificate (aka pilot's license) dates from 1971 when I was in the Army at Ft. Hood.  My birth date is correct, but my height is actually 70 inches (6ft just sounded better). My hair was blond back then but my eyes are actually blue.  I was, and still am, male.  The USA is still good.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on February 12, 2018, 11:36:59 AM

[/quote]
 my height is actually 70 inches (6ft just sounded better).
[/quote]

Certainly improved your BMI...

amck
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Bill Mangus on February 18, 2018, 12:20:31 PM
A short article about Dr. Jantz's paper has appeared in The Economist Magazine:

     https://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21736428-bones-found-1940-may-have-been-those-lost-aviatrix-new-evidence
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jon Romig on March 07, 2018, 02:55:48 PM
Finally this has taken off in the media today - New York Daily News, Time Magazine, Newsweek, New York Post, etc. and a top slot of Google News home page.

I was beginning to wonder at the silence.

Jon
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on March 07, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
I was sent this link by a friend

https://phys.org/news/2018-03-forensic-analysis-bones-amelia-earhart.html (https://phys.org/news/2018-03-forensic-analysis-bones-amelia-earhart.html)

does seem like it is gathering some traction.

amck
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 07, 2018, 06:33:23 PM
Jantz and I were interviewed this evening for the TODAY show.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Bill Mangus on March 08, 2018, 06:23:05 AM
The Today Show interview is up on the Today website:

       https://www.today.com/video/amelia-earhart-mystery-could-be-solved-at-last-1180141123509

Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 08, 2018, 06:50:22 AM
Thanks Bill.  I'm happy with the way that came out.  Pat's young Morgan "Ash" even made his national television debut on my screensaver.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Pat Fontaine on March 08, 2018, 06:59:06 AM
I thought it was a good interview - know they don’t have a lot of time to go in to the details, but thought they hit it pretty hard.  Well done!
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Bill Mangus on March 08, 2018, 11:04:28 AM
I agree.  Balanced and fair without overstating the evidence.  I hope they replay it tonight on "Nightly News".
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 08, 2018, 11:27:07 AM
Here's an interview I did with a radio station in Toronto

 https://omny.fm/shows/the-exchange-with-matt-gurney/scientists-believe-bones-found-on-island-belong-to
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Paul Mitcheltree on March 08, 2018, 02:58:04 PM
and more BBC coverage , good details . . .

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43323944
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 08, 2018, 03:12:45 PM
It's amazing what you can learn from the BBC.  Benedictine is an herbal liqueur that Earhart was known to carry.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Andrew M McKenna on March 08, 2018, 05:30:25 PM
Never mind the BBC, get the real story here!

https://www.theonion.com/report-human-bones-found-on-remote-pacific-island-most-1823623725 (https://www.theonion.com/report-human-bones-found-on-remote-pacific-island-most-1823623725)

You know you've made it when The Onion wants to make fun of you.

AMcK
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Matt Revington on March 08, 2018, 05:33:22 PM
Never mind the BBC, get the real story here!

https://www.theonion.com/report-human-bones-found-on-remote-pacific-island-most-1823623725 (https://www.theonion.com/report-human-bones-found-on-remote-pacific-island-most-1823623725)

You know you've made it when The Onion wants to make fun of you.

AMcK

More credible than some of the Saipan theories
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 08, 2018, 05:43:53 PM
More than one of the Middle School groups I've talked to were sure that Noonan's remains were not found because Amelia ate him.

Some stuff we recovered from the Seven Site in 2010 proved to be human feces that contained human DNA (but too degraded to sequence) from more than one person. One explanation is cannibalism, but nobody wanted to go there.

Burn this posting after reading.  ;D
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Peter B on March 10, 2018, 11:28:08 AM
Hello AE group,

What a phenomenal collection of information and research this is. Truly a tour de force.

I have a couple of questions regarding the bones that I am guessing may have already been discussed. However, I have not been able to find this information. If someone could address this I would be grateful:

1. Are there any plausible explanations as to how the bones ended up on the island, if they are not AE's (or FN's) bones?
2. Do we know that the bones were disposed of/buried and are they lost for ever or are there efforts to locate them?

Best, Peter
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Pat Fontaine on March 10, 2018, 11:47:13 AM
Hello Peter,
To the best of my knowledge, there really isn’t a better explanation to the presence of bones.
The island was uninhabited, and while the Norwich City lost some crewmenbers (I think six, if I recall correctly) they were accounted for.  I may have that wrong, but what I took away was that we can discount the bones being from any crewmembers.  Gallaghar’s grave is accounted for.
So it all begs the question, if not hers, then whose?  Reinforce this with the recent Dr. Jantz report that puts her being the ‘person of the bones’ at 99% and that leads us to where we’re at today.

As to the location of the bones - the short answer is they were set aside and lost somewhere.  Here’s a post that gives an excellent summary of the search for the bones:
https://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/42_FijiBoneSearch.html


Thanks,
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 10, 2018, 12:14:44 PM
1. Are there any plausible explanations as to how the bones ended up on the island, if they are not AE's (or FN's) bones?

As Pat Fontaine said, not that we've been able to find.  There's nobody else missing in the region.  Norwich City had a
crew of 35 men, all of whom went into the water in the storm. Twenty-four made it to shore alive.  Of the 11 who didn't, 3 bodies washed up and were buried by the survivors.  The other 8 are unaccounted for and were presumed drowned or taken by sharks.
The castaway whose remains were discovered in 1940 were found with part of a woman's shoe. Forensic analysis of the skull suggests the castaway was female.  Several of the artifacts TIGHAR has found on the site which appear to be associated with the castaway are female gender-specific (mirror and make-up from a compact, hand lotion bottle, freckle cream ointment pot).  There were no women aboard Norwich City.


2. Do we know that the bones were disposed of/buried and are they lost for ever or are there efforts to locate them?

There is no record of the bones being discarded but exhaustive effort to find them (three expeditions to Fiji) have failed to find any trace of them.  Hope springs eternal but when you consider that the bones were ultimately judged to be of no significance, it seems most likely to me that they laid around until they eventually got in somebody's way and simply got pitched.  Why would anyone hang on to them?
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 13, 2018, 12:23:24 PM
Forensic analysis of the skull suggests the castaway was female.  ]

What details of the skull examined by Hoodless suggest female?

I have wondered why Hoodless didn't include any details of the skull that indicated sex. Details like forehead slope, eyebrow detail,etc .... https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/forensic-facial-reconstruction/0/steps/25656

Regarding clothing, would the measurements of the cranial vault given by Hoodless help in determining what size hat the individual may have worn for a comfortable fit? And do we know Earhart's hat size from available sources?
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 13, 2018, 01:17:04 PM
What details of the skull examined by Hoodless suggest female?

I'm not an anthropologist, but it's my understanding that the combination of skull measurements and ratios provided by Hoodless, when plugged into Fordisc, suggest female.

I have wondered why Hoodless didn't include any details of the skull that indicated sex. Details like forehead slope, eyebrow detail,etc .... https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/forensic-facial-reconstruction/0/steps/25656

It was 1941.  The link probably didn't work.

Regarding clothing, would the measurements of the cranial vault given by Hoodless help in determining what size hat the individual may have worn for a comfortable fit? And do we know Earhart's hat size from available sources?

I don't see a measurement of the cranial vault in Hoodless' notes.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 13, 2018, 02:55:00 PM
Items 3 & 4 in the hoodless report,  Mentions the length and breadth of skull at 182mm and 137mm, ..Cephalic index at 75.3 which indicated by Hoodless favors a person of European decent and seems to be backed up by this article; https://www.britannica.com/science/cephalic-index

This hat guide;  https://www.villagehatshop.com/content/38/how-to-determine-your-hat-size.html gives some ideas on how to measure for a hat,...a geometrician might possibly use Hoodless's measurements to arrive at a relatively close circumference size, adding in the soft tissues. 
Do we have an example of Earhart's hat size?
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 14, 2018, 11:20:43 AM
The flying helmets (or CLOSE fitting hat) https://www.flightmuseum.com/amelia-earhart/ used by Earhart may be good candidates to use in trying to determine Earhart's cranial circumference. They usually fit pretty tightly, used in open cockpits.
 If one could shape a piece of material ( Styrofoam?) into a likeness of the Niku cranial vault, factor in extra material for soft tissues and allow for a bit of hair compression, one may arrive at a relatively close helmet/hat size, an individual with those measurements would have felt comfortable wearing.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 14, 2018, 11:53:53 AM
Jerry, I think what you'd end up with is a flying helmet that anyone of Amelia's general size could wear.  There is nothing gender or ethnicity specific about hat size. The useful thing about the work Jantz and Glickman did is that the measurements were specific to the castaway bones and Earhart.  Jantz used the clothing measurements from Purdue primarily to estimate Earhart's weight and build to get an approximate Body Mass Index (BMI).
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 14, 2018, 02:02:07 PM
I was hoping the skull measurements usage would fall along the same lines, that being measurements specific to both the castaway and Earhart. Reading up on her skull caps ( flying helmets)...I suppose the soft leather would allow for a fit onto any number of heads, if the dome were large enough to allow, so maybe using a standard hat would be more preferable, should one decide to conduct such an experiment to whittle away at the 1% doubt.
The one thing I reason is, if the Niku skull measures too large, to fit into one of Earhart's hats, it could pose a problem,....too loose, maybe not so much, as many photos I see of her, her hat is almost ear touching, too well below top of ear.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jon Romig on March 14, 2018, 03:30:20 PM
I think the hat size issue is a worthwhile research topic. Perhaps it deserves its own thread.

I had a concussion recently and my CT scans could easily be used to quantify the relationship of my scull dimensions to my hat size. A few dozen of these from various individuals should be sufficient to determine a typical relationship and allow us to apply that relationship to the Niku bones (if this research does not already exist).

AE spent a lot of time on windy aprons and had compact, curly hair, so I expect she wore her hats rather tightly, which could reduce the variable of tight vs loose fit. Most hats, perhaps unlike flying helmets, fit only a close range of head sizes such that often only a single size will fit. It seems to me we have a metric that could be fairly precise.

I assume that examples of her hats exist?

Jon
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 14, 2018, 03:57:31 PM
I assume that examples of her hats exist?

Not that I know of.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 17, 2018, 03:42:29 PM
Amelia makes it tough in every aspect of research it seems, for such a popular figure, it is difficult to find information.
Thus far, I have struck out in finding an extent hat once owned by Amelia, and any information in literature pertaining to a size mentioned,..will keep trying. Could any information be gleaned from the leather skull cap in Purdue; http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/earhart/id/28/rv/singleitem/ ...size inside, or possible measurements taken that would give a relatively close circumference of the famous head that once fit inside?
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 18, 2018, 10:43:08 AM
Could any information be gleaned from the leather skull cap in Purdue; http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/earhart/id/28/rv/singleitem/ ...size inside, or possible measurements taken that would give a relatively close circumference of the famous head that once fit inside?

Maybe.  It would take another visit to Purdue.  I'll ask Richard Jantz if knowing the dimensions of the flying helmet would be useful.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 18, 2018, 12:31:47 PM
I am thinking if we could pin down the same location Earhart placed this skull cap/helmet onto her head during photos, ....and if the skull cap/helmet could be placed onto something like a wig holder shape, or other head shaped object (adjustable mannequin head?) and measured there, it may be pretty close to what Earhart's head circumference may have been. Donations needed for trip?
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 18, 2018, 12:35:43 PM
Let's see what Jantz has to say.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 18, 2018, 04:44:17 PM
Richard says,
"Funny about the helmet. I was just wondering if some sort of head gear existed. I think we should try it. There will be some estimation. Head length would have been taken from just above the nasal notch (glabella), the most prominent part of the lower forehead. The posterior point is the one most distant from it. I think the helmet would be above glabella, and in the back would have  been below the max length point. Maybe there is a side view photo of her wearing the helmet so we could estimate about where that max point would  be on the helmet. Maybe the easiest, at the out set, is to get the circumference. We can estimate circumference from the skull. There will be a lot of estimation,  but I think it is worth a shot."

So there's the first mission.  Let's find a good side view of her wearing this helmet.  Purdue dates it to 1932 so it's probably associated with the solo Atlantic flight.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jim Zanella on March 18, 2018, 06:54:27 PM
Be aware that human head shape varies by ethnicity. I am an avid motorycle rider and through the years have bought many helmets. Shoei motorcyle helmets inside shape are made for Asian head shapes which tend more to flatter with respect to the foreheads than the common Europeans. I always ended up with a red pressure point on my forehead after a long ride. I finally went to Aria helmets which are designed for the more peaky forehead of the europeans and no red dot.
Just an observation.
Jim
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 19, 2018, 11:33:50 AM
That's great news, concerning the attempt to discover the circumference of Amelia's head, and having Dr Jantz on board with the attempt to compare the two (or one) skulls with each other.
I was trying to go through the papers presented by both sides of the argument of the Niku bones, and found it difficult to access the Cross/Wright paper without paying for it or signing up for an account... I found this free link that may be of help to others in comparing.

https://bradscholars.brad.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/10454/7286/cross_nikumaroro_bones_journal_of_archaeological_sciences.pdf

 From Ric, "All three papers - Jantz's, mine, and Tom King's are in the new TIGHAR Tracks. Members who get it as a PDF already have theirs.  The paper journal will go out early next week, but we've put the three papers plus the infamous Cross/Wright critique on the TIGHAR website at https://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/BonesForensicAnalysis/BonesForensicAnalysis.html

Will begin a search for cap photos....I found one with Harpo Marx and Amelia, in which the hat she holds in her hand is positioned so as to see the inside brim ( though a bit mis-shapen) ...and was wondering if Jeff Glickman could use her fingers to help scale it. Scale taken from her ink blot hand print. Also looked in the Luke field inventory and found the pith helmet mentioned, and the critical past video; http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675063657_Amelia-Earhart-Putnam_Fred-Noonan_transatlantic-flight_Fred-Noonan shows Putnam jokingly putting the helmet on Earhart, but no sizes mentioned, but it is also positioned at times to see the inside brim.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 19, 2018, 01:23:39 PM
found it difficult to access the Cross/Wright paper without paying for it

The Cross/Wright paper is on the TIGHAR website along with Jantz's paper, my paper, and Tom King's paper.
https://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Documents/BonesForensicAnalysis/BonesForensicAnalysis.html
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Steve Oster on March 19, 2018, 07:30:02 PM
So there's the first mission.  Let's find a good side view of her wearing this helmet.  Purdue dates it to 1932 so it's probably associated with the solo Atlantic flight.

Purdue University Amelia Earhart Collection lists a leather helmet as part of the collection on page 41 of the pdf file:

PERSONAL BELONGINGS
Gavel in appreciation of AE’s visit to the Oakland, California Chapter of the National
Aeronautic Association, September 25, 1928 [metal wings plaque attached]
Flight suit worn on the 1932 solo Atlantic flight [Grenfell brown cloth, made in England]
Slacks worn on the 1932 solo Atlantic flight
Suede jacket worn on 1932 solo Atlantic flight, Abercrombie & Fitch, medium brown leather,
six buttons with two side pockets, ca. 1930s
Leather helmet worn on the 1932 solo Atlantic flight

Seems like it may be available for the asking.

http://collections.lib.purdue.edu/fa/pdf/earhart.pdf
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Steve Oster on March 19, 2018, 07:48:37 PM
Here's a link to the Pudue Collection that shows Amelia in helmet and flight gear.  Reportedly in Boston ca. March 18, 1928.  The link will take you to a high resolution copy of the photograph; looks easy to get some measurements here.

http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/533/rec/6 (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/533/rec/6)

And here's a link to a photo of the 1932 leather helmet in the Pudue Collection.

http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/28/rec/2 (http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/28/rec/2)

Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Steve Oster on March 19, 2018, 08:25:08 PM
Other interesting items contained in personal belongings section of Purdue Collection; also on p. 41 of the pdf file (http://collections.lib.purdue.edu/fa/pdf/earhart.pdf):

Compact, leather with mirror and makeup inside; stamped Mondame [or Mondaine?], New York, NY, ca. 1930s

Smelling salts, probably used by Earhart to stay awake during her 1932 solo flight across the Atlantic, green glass bottle, The Crown Perfumery Company, London

Suitcase, leather engraved with initials “DBP” [Dorothy Binney Putnam? David Binney Putnam?], ca. 1930s [Poster's comment: Might this be "the suitcase in the closet" recorded in Betty's notebook?]
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Steve Oster on March 19, 2018, 09:07:59 PM
Sorry, Jerry.  Totally missed your earlier links to the Purdue Collection.  I do think that helmet is an actual artifact in the collection rather than just a photo.  Also, see my link to profile photo of Amelia in a similar (same?) helmet; also available in the Purdue Collection.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 20, 2018, 11:20:03 AM
That's ok, I often do the same.

That is a nice link;
http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/533/rec/6

I believe it is what is needed, however, I believe it is a view of her in 1928 and the skull cap is a bit different than the 1932 version that Purdue has in it's collection,...still, could anything be gleaned from the way she wears that 1928 cap and how it fits her head?
It seems Earhart had this little habit of grabbing a small tuft of hair and pulling on it to allow it to reside outside of the front of her cap.
 http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675063651_Amelia-Earhart-Putnam_Wilmer-Stultz_transatlantic-flight_Louis-Gordon
Several other sources, photos and the like show same result after cap placement.

Still looking for some good 1932 stuff.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 20, 2018, 01:57:20 PM
Will keep looking for items in the states,....but wonder what is over on the other side of the pond in Derry or elsewhere;

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/P2270017.JPG

Any members close by?
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 20, 2018, 03:01:46 PM
It seems several items were taken out of storage and displayed during Women's History Month about a year ago,...and we see our skull cap there; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsyWkKLVh3g&t=2s 
Hoping results will be forthcoming, but we do have one more feature to study, should the cap study prove inadequate to help provide proof or non-proof.
The one feature Hoodless measured on the skull, that may help indicate sex was the orbits. It seems male and female differ a bit,....but one thing at a time is already a lot.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 20, 2018, 09:42:35 PM
Finding a few angle shots of the 1932 cap;

Heres one;

http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/394/rec/600

Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 21, 2018, 09:12:04 AM
Photos show that in the course of her flying career Earhart, not surprisingly, had several flying helmets (heck, so do I). The helmet we're interested in is the one now in the Purdue collection.  That helmet has several features that distinguish it from others AE wore.
•  The chin strap fastens on the right side and is adjustable by means of two metal loops.
•  The fit of the helmet is adjustable by means of leather straps anchored above leather patches over the ears. The straps extend forward and are tightened over the forehead by means of the same type of two-loop fastener on the chin strap.
•  There is no loop for a goggles headband.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 21, 2018, 09:18:32 AM
Earhart wore this helmet for some, but not all, of her autogyro flights in 1931 and on her 1932 solo transatlantic flight.  I'll ask Richard Jantz if these photos are adequate for his purposes.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 21, 2018, 09:20:47 AM
In this autogyro photo, note that there are no forehead straps, the chin strap fastens on the left with a buckle, and there is a loop in the back for the goggles head band.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 21, 2018, 12:34:32 PM
I've often wondered if any pairs of glasses she may have worn could be of any additional help in determining Earhart's skull features.

 This pair in the Purdue collection; http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/cdm/singleitem/collection/earhart/id/32/rec/1803

Could they be of help in any way, in Dr Jantz's studies? They are a bit broken it seems,however; I think the most important part of these glasses may be the bow lengths.  Earhart may have bent the metal bows to create her most personal comfortable fit behind the ears, as most folks do. Any other glasses available anywhere, if this item could be of help?
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 21, 2018, 06:33:31 PM
Was wondering if the bones data base used by Dr. Jantz is available to download.
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Ric Gillespie on March 22, 2018, 08:53:06 AM
Was wondering if the bones data base used by Dr. Jantz is available to download.

What would you do with it if you had it?
Title: Re: Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones - Richard Jantz
Post by: Jerry Germann on March 22, 2018, 09:12:15 PM
I assume that examples of her hats exist?

Not that I know of.

This ;  Women and Museums: A Comprehensive Guide - Page 33

https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0759108552
Victor J. Danilov - 2005 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
The Amelia Earhart Birthplace Museum is owned and operated by the Ninety-Nines, Inc., an international organization of women pilots founded by Earhart and 98 other women. It contains period furnishings, memorabilia, and exhibits on Earhart and other women pilots. Life-size statues of Earhart are also located in downtown Atchison and a memorial park (see Memorials to Women). ... A glass case also displays her valise, hat, purse, and a hatchet pin she sold to help pay her fines.

I can't say what type of hat her birthplace museum houses,....looking through some photos, I see what looks like another flying helmet, but hard to see everything within the cases. I don't know if the skull cap is a gift shop item or???
http://www.ameliaearhartmuseum.org/