TIGHAR
Project Midnight Ghost => General Discussion => Topic started by: Oskar Erich Heinrich Haberlandt on October 28, 2012, 10:36:39 AM
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Hi!
Found this:
http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Charles_Nungesser_and_Francois_Coli (http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Charles_Nungesser_and_Francois_Coli)
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Results: Solved. Since the segment, most of the craft and partial remains of the craft was located in the thick Maine wilderness on November 13, 2011. An analysis reveals that the pilots ran out of fuel and were forced to crash the plane.
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What happened November 13, 2011? Any information?
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I find it interesting that there are no links in the article to any reports of the 2011 "findings". I'll believe it when I can see it.
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Jeff,
that's exactly what I think. I can't believe the mystery is solved and Ric doesn't know....
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Why hasn't it made headline news anywhere?
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Well, Nungesser isn't Amelia Earhart. I'm living in Europe and I can imagine nobody cares if the L'Oiseau Blanc (that means the remains of its engine) is found. Europe isn't as interrested in its aviation pioneers as the US is.
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Shame though Oskar. We have quite a lot of interest in the UK for aviation history, ww2 and all. Maybe there is a Market for TIGHAR's expertise over here in Europe after all, no one else seems to be interested.
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Sure Ric was suggesting a new TIGHAR search soon?
Marty - Could there be a Midnight Ghost section like we have the Maid of Harlech and the Devastators ?
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Hi!
Found this:
http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Charles_Nungesser_and_Francois_Coli (http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Charles_Nungesser_and_Francois_Coli)
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Results: Solved. Since the segment, most of the craft and partial remains of the craft was located in the thick Maine wilderness on November 13, 2011. An analysis reveals that the pilots ran out of fuel and were forced to crash the plane.
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What happened November 13, 2011? Any information?
I'm pretty skeptical. Right now I'm reading a new book published in 2012, "Atlantic Fever" by Joe Jackson. (Which I recommend, by the way.) In the Nungesser section it says:
1. There are witness accounts saying that at the time the White Bird was leaving Newfoundland, over water, a bootlegger's rum boat in heavy fog heard an airplane overhead and feared it was US Treasury agents. They fired their guns blindly upward toward the sound, and heard a loud "bang".
2. Coming down in the water is somewhat corroborated by a recently discovered Coast Guard message from 8/18/1927 saying that remains of a "white aircraft" were spotted roughly 200 miles off New York. That is approximately where it could have drifted in the prevailing currents.
I can offer no opinion as to whether any of that is true, but my point is that this 2012 book mentions some "recent" findings but says nothing about the supposed event in November 2011 or the mystery being "solved".
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Could there be a Midnight Ghost section like we have the Maid of Harlech and the Devastators ?
Great idea!
If you are reading this, you have arrived in the new Midnight Ghost section. If you can't read this, well, there's no point in typing any more, is there? ;D
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Could there be a Midnight Ghost section like we have the Maid of Harlech and the Devastators ?
Great idea!
If you are reading this, you have arrived in the new Midnight Ghost section. If you can't read this, well, there's no point in typing any more, is there? ;D
Thank's, Marty, I always thought MIDNIGHT GHOST should have a section by its own!
It would be interesting to know what Ric can tell us about the case ("solved")
Oskar
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Many thanks Marty :)
Something else to whet the appetite!
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I read a recent blogpost detailing the possible discovery of L'Oiseau Blanc (http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/nungesser-and-coli-plane-found-at-last-or-not). As described in the blogpost, in 1961, a fisherman retrieved a large section of plane debris off the coast of Maine and the wreckage itself was ferried to Paris. I haven't heard of whether the wreckage still exists in a collection at Le Bourget Airport, but photos of the wreckage suggest that those pieces fit over the plane on photographs which were taken of it during its construction.
This long-forgotten development is apparently the elephant in the room when it comes to solving the mystery of nungesser and Coli's disappearance. It would provide the best evidence that nungesser and coli crashed their plane in Maine, and it might spell the end of Project Midnight Ghost.
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This long-forgotten development is apparently the elephant in the room when it comes to solving the mystery of nungesser and Coli's disappearance.
There is no elephant in the room but there is plenty of bovine manure.
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This long-forgotten development is apparently the elephant in the room when it comes to solving the mystery of nungesser and Coli's disappearance.
There is no elephant in the room but there is plenty of bovine manure.
You're just being silly, Ric. When I say "elephant in the room", I'm talking about an obvious truth that is either being ignored or going unaddressed. In the case of the trying to find out why Nungesser and Coli disappeared, the discovery of aircraft wreckage off the cost of Maine in 1961 (see http://www.marilynztomlins.com/articles/nungesser-and-coli-plane-found-at-last-or-not for more details) has been virtually overlooked by almost all researchers who consider Maine a possible crash site of L'Oiseau Blanc. The fact that the fisherman in Maine saw aircraft wreckage off the coast and retrieved it a long time ago helps explain why TIGHAR couldn't find any aircraft wreckage in Gull Pond in Newfoudland or the Maine wilderness as part of Project Midnight Ghost.
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I am familiar with Decre's investigation of l'Oiseau Blanc and I am not impressed. Last year he got some publicity by totally misreading and misinterpreting a U.S.Coast Guard telegram.
This latest claim sounds like classic Decre. Show me one scrap of documentation that the discovery of aircraft wreckage off the coast of Maine in 1961 ever happened. Show me a newspaper article from that time. Show me the photo Decre says he has seen.
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There's a lot of confusion over the significance of the Nungesser/Coli flight. L'Oiseau Blanc is, in my opinion, history's most important missing aircraft - far more important than Earhart's Electra - but not for the reasons most people think. Nungesser and Coli probably did succeed in crossing the Atlantic. The evidence that they got as far as Newfoundland is very strong, but the Atlantic had been crossed by air many times before. Alcock and Brown did it first in 1919. What Nungesser and Coli were trying to do, and what Lindbergh succeeded in doing, was win the $25,000 Ortieg Prize for the first nonstop flight between New York and Paris, in either direction. Wherever N and C ended up, their flight was not a success and did not set any kind of record.
The historical significance of the White Bird is that, if it had arrived in New York as everyone including Lindbergh was quite sure it would, Lindbergh would not have flown the Atlantic and everything that happened because he did would have happened differently.
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The historical significance of the White Bird is that, if it had arrived in New York as everyone including Lindbergh was quite sure it would, Lindbergh would not have flown the Atlantic and everything that happened because he did would have happened differently.
I'm not arguing with that, but I'm interested to hear your reasons for saying it. Of course the historical impact would be quite different, but might not Lindbergh have flown anyway? Two other Orteig-competing groups went ahead and flew after Lindbergh (Chamberlain's and Byrd's). Also, Lindbergh could still have claimed the first solo Atlantic flight, and thus salvaged something from the money already spent by his backers. Or perhaps a different challenging flight might have been selected . . . it's interesting to speculate.
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Lindbergh was still in San Diego testing the Spirit of St. Louis when he got word that Nungesser and Coli had succeeded in taking off with enough fuel to reach New York.
"I spend most of the day studying charts and data I've assemble for the westward, Pacific flight." (The Spirit of St. Louis, page 129) Contrary to the 1957 Jimmy Stewart movie, he didn't leave for New York until it was clear that Nungesser and Coli were missing.
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My 2 cents. If TIGHAR is going to be held to the "any idiot artifact" standard with regards to a certain Electra, why no hold Mr. Decre to a similar standard? *waits for the howls of "That's different!" to errupt*
LTM, who has enough trouble with the idiots in his own head,
Monty Fowler, TIGHER No. 2189 CER