Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed  (Read 53251 times)

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5318
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2012, 08:47:27 AM »

Has anyone followed up the survivors and contacted current and former owners to see if a set of blueprints emerges?

No.  Are you volunteering?
Logged

Michael Elliot

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 51
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2012, 08:36:14 PM »

Ric,
Let me take a quick pass at the survivors list, and get an idea of the task.
Will be back to you early next week.
In the meantime, think of who owners will most likely respond to -- whose name should be on the return address.
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5318
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2012, 05:48:39 AM »

In the meantime, think of who owners will most likely respond to -- whose name should be on the return address.

I'll be happy to send out the queries.  It's researching the contact information for the owners that takes time I don't have.
The owners who are most likely to have engineering drawings are the ones who did extensive rebuilds of their aircraft. I have good contacts at two of them:
- the National Museum of Naval Aviation
- the New England Air Museum
Logged

Michael Elliot

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 51
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2012, 10:49:20 PM »

Ric,
Regrets. The magnitude of digging out all of the names is considerable. I already have commitments to a local Air Museum, and a spouse with chronic illness. So, you need to find someone else – perhaps several – to get the names and addresses for you to write to.
      
I have a number of suggestions for your volunteers if you want them, and a prelim. list of survivors.  Should I post them, or do you want them off-list?

Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5318
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2012, 08:17:18 AM »

Regrets. The magnitude of digging out all of the names is considerable. I already have commitments to a local Air Museum, and a spouse with chronic illness. So, you need to find someone else – perhaps several – to get the names and addresses for you to write to.

No worries.

      
I have a number of suggestions for your volunteers if you want them, and a prelim. list of survivors.  Should I post them, or do you want them off-list?

I'll start a new thread.  There is value in assembling a list of current Electra survivors and their owners.  We'll include not only complete airframes, whether conserved or rebuilt, but also known wreck sites.
Logged

Ricker H Jones

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 110
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2012, 03:22:11 PM »

Bruce Kitt of Northwest Airlines History Centre sent the following reply to my enquiry regarding engineering drawings.  (Bruce had provided us with information and photos of the  Western Electric 631B microphones used by NWA which were the same type as used on the Earhart Electra.)
 
"I only wish the NWA History Centre had a set of drawing of the L-10. I think it's one of the most graceful commercial aircraft (next to the DC-3). I keep hoping that someone will includes both drawings, a parts list and maintenance manual, but so far, no such luck!
"The only place I can think of that may have drawings would be the New England Air Museum in Connecticut. They have a L-10 donated by a former North Central mechanic and may have also secured drawings and manuals. Otherwise maybe Pima County in Arizone but that would be all I can suggest right now. Good luck - and let us know if you are successful as our museum would like to approach the lucky holder to see about a copy. CAVU
Bruce Kitt
NWA History Centre, Inc."
 
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5318
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2012, 05:50:29 PM »

The NASM archive has a set of microfilm drawings.  I'm currently corresponding with them to see if they would cooperate in a project to digitize their set.  It would have to be done by a reputable vendor and it wouldn't be cheap, but once the drawings were digitized it would be easy to distribute them to anyone who wanted them.
Logged

Kristina Sackett RN

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2012, 06:42:31 PM »

Quote
Has anyone followed up the survivors and contacted current and former owners to see if a set of blueprints emerges?

I looked into this for three days, with little knowledge of what TIGHAR already had, and came up with tons of material but not what was needed.  I do have the time to this search if it is wanted by anyone at all.
Kristina Sackett
Logged

Michael Elliot

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 51
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2012, 10:01:25 PM »

This was originally posted to the Survivors List thread, but it really belongs here.

Ric,
POTENTAL SOURCES OF L-10 DRAWINGS, BLUEPRINTS, PARTS LISTS, etc.         
First source: the FAA N-list of OWNERS
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx
this tells you who to ask.

***An example:***
S/N 1026, N38BB - Originally delivered to Braniff Airways as NC14937. The N-list will give:
Owner
Frederick W. Patterson III
2 Entrada Cir.
American Canyon CA

you have to go add the zip code from elsewhere   94503-3111
same with phone.

Then, go to the successor of Braniff. From Wikipedia we find: “The remains of the original Braniff—including Braniff Airways original Tax ID number (FEIN)—are retained by a company named "Asworth" in Dallas. Asworth was formed out of the old "Dalfort" corporation and is responsible for paying pilot pensions according to the Braniff Retired Pilots Group, B.I.S.E.”

There were several other companies that operated this aircraft, and I suspect that Patterson will tell you which they were. It also had a different N number when operated by during earlier owners  Provincetown-Boston Airlines – N38PB.

Then, go to Provincetown-Boston Airlines.

Many  probably had several N numbers over the years. The FAA permits changes for whatever reason the owner has.

Some entries in the FAA Nlist show corporate, or partnership names. You have to search the financial and state company data for real persons involved.

***End of example.***


Second, See Operators under
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Model_10_Electra
For each US, UK, AUS, NZ, RSA, FR, and Canadian company, or its successor, have your volunteer locate the name of the current company HISTORIAN or ARCHIVIST. Write, or better, call, and ask if their records include the resources used by their maintenance departments, just for Lockheed L-10 aircraft, and if so, can you have a copy. If no historian or archivist, check SEC filings 10K etc., for names of directors – look for contacts.

Third, Air Museums
For all Air Museums that have an L-10, call by phone and ask for the name, address, and phone of the CREW CHIEF of the L-10. Then either call or write that crew chief person and say you are seeking blueprints, drawings, all illustrations for the L-10, and if they have some, can you have a copy. Note, AMs often have ex-military as staff – treat accordingly.

Fourth, South America
Find a person whose mother tongue is W. Hemi Spanish, and have them compose the same for Latin American historical carriers who used L-10s. If you have members in Chile, Argentina & Brazil, enlist them for research and tracking of L-10 graphics..

Fifth. Other Overseas
Because you have members in CAN, AUS & NZ you might ask for volunteers to follow up those airplanes. I do not know if they have public access to data as in US.

Sixth. The wrecks
Leave until last because tracking is difficult UNLESS there is a signpost in the data. See e.g., S/N 1216 in  the survivors list. For earlier wrecks, TIGHAR may have a list from when it did the Alaska wreck.
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5318
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2012, 08:16:35 AM »

Why not go to the source?

John Balderston already went that route.  No luck so far.

The assumption that a corporate descendant still has the engineering drawings for an aircraft designed and built by its predecessor 78 years ago does not reflect the reality of the aerospace industry.  In the current climate, corporate archives are rare.  Old records, if they exist at all, are usually to be found in museums or nonprofit historical societies.
Logged

Ted G Campbell

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 336
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2012, 10:37:41 AM »

To: Ric

I was wondering if a through review of William F. Harney’s drawing data base has been made in order to obtain dimensional detail of various L 10E subassemblies.

If Mr. Harney was able to dimensionally incorporate various subassemblies into his final “scale” drawing of the L 10E he must have very carefully measured such things as landing gear components, instrument diameters, control surfaces, etc.

I would think that these detailed subassembly drawings/photos etc. (if they exist) would give us ample enough dimensional detail to identify various suspected airplane components in the debris field around Niku.

Just a thought!

Ted Campbell
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5318
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2012, 11:01:45 AM »

I was wondering if a through review of William F. Harney’s drawing data base has been made in order to obtain dimensional detail of various L 10E subassemblies.

Bill and I worked closely together for ten years while he was building his model.  Before he died he donated all of his drawings and reference materials to TIGHAR.
Logged

Alan Harris

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2012, 01:42:28 PM »

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company holds the TC for the L10E and therefore should still have the data.

Jeff, your thought is very understandable, that fact does sound impressive.  As a practical reality, first, the TC holder's motivation to maintain the certificated data package essentially ends as soon as there are no remaining aircraft registered with the FAA/JAA and holding a Standard Airworthiness Certificate.  Second, there is no direct FAA obligation for TC holders to retain the data in perpetuity.  Although not the case here, the situation becomes increasing comical over time as smaller companies are absorbed by larger ones: Boeing, LM, and Northrop Grumman end up as the TC holders for aircraft their companies have never seen, and on which they wouldn't even know which way up to bolt the wings.

It's interesting that the records show the location for LM Aero as Fort Worth.  Of course that plant was successively operated by Consolidated, Consolidated Vultee, Convair, and General Dynamics before acquisition by LM relatively recently.  LM has used it mainly for fighter production.
Logged

Tom Swearengen

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 818
  • earhart monument, Hawaii
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2012, 02:06:25 PM »

Crazy and intrusive question---but how much real difference is there in a 10E, and a Beech C45? Yeah I know---but there are similarities, and we do have the Harney drawings to translate the differences.
tom
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
Logged

Kristina Sackett RN

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2012, 03:24:23 PM »

what is the cost of digitizing 38 pages of microfilm? I realize no  one wants to reinvent the wheel but so far all the possibilities are being shot down faster than Amelia could land on Gardner Island. As side from the alien contact instructions I couldn't understand because I don't speak aeronautical/code speak research language. All of my inquires have been in English and resulted in very nice replies with either the answer of "no" or please check with the Smithsonian. Although my Sr, airman Daughter did suggest the Library of Congress and that was a ton of fun yesterday. The list I found apparently is so old that it wouldn't even lead to new owners but probably dead people. Boeing is attempting to acquire a Lockheed, Raising funds but probably won't know about any drawing until they get it. That  bit of news was from May 2012 so I doubt it's that old.  So four + days into searching has brought me nothing but things I won't discuss on a forum! Cheers Fellows!
Kristina
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
 

Copyright 2018 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Powered by PHP