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Author Topic: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed  (Read 45526 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2012, 07:01:50 PM »

The MPC is a civilian publication, as for airlines.  No hope that the Navy or Air Corps/Force got something better with their Electras?

The Navy and Coast Guard each had one 10A built as VIP transports but they were identical to the airline version. The Air Corps merely "drafted" existing commercial 10As except for the one-off XC-35 pressurized airplane which was a completely different animal.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 07:30:36 PM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
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Alan Harris

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2012, 07:39:15 PM »

The Navy and Coast Guard each had one 10A built as VIP transports but they were identical to the airline version. The Air Corps merely "drafted" existing commercial 10As except for the one-off XC-35 pressurized airplane which was a completely different animal.

Ooops, Wiki strikes again.  For 10A's they show 3 built for the Navy, 3 built for the Air Corps, and 1 for the National Guard; and then 1 10B for the Coast Guard.  Apparently all in the '30s but not clear.  Then for the Air Forces "impressed" ones they show a total of 27 A's, B's, and E's, apparently all in the '40s.  Also the XC-35 and the one built for the Japanese Navy (!)

I was about to suggest they could use a little correction, but keeping Wiki straight is much more than a full-time job, and you already have one of those.   :)
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 08:52:15 PM »

The best accounting of Model 10s is "Lockheed's Model 10 Electra,"  an article by Thomas E. Emmert and William T. Larkins in the summer 1978 issue of the Journal of the American Aviation Historical Society.  I don't know if it's available on line.
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Patrick Dickson

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2012, 04:32:44 AM »

what about....
 
Tom Roberts, EPAC:

There may be more than one Lockheed Martin archive, but much of the old (and not so old) Lockheed data is stored by Iron Mountain (an "information protection and storage" company) somewhere in Pennsylvania. It is indexed, to some degree at least.
I know that the old Electra drawings are kept there, and can be accessed by Lockheed Martin customer support personnel as required. Locating something there without having specific information about where it's stored might be difficult. I doubt that all of the indexing has been digitized.
 
has this avenue been traveled ??
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2012, 04:56:49 AM »

We have serial number 1037 over here in the science museum London. It was kept at the museums storage facility in Wiltshire before going on display at the London museum. I will search the , Wroughton, Wiltshire science museum facility to see if the aircraft had any associated Lockheed drawings, manuals, paperwork to accompany it. If so they will be at
Wroughton.
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects/aeronautics/1982-964.aspx


Another lead is the Royal Air Force Lockheed Electras. 24 squadron Brize Norton flew them so may still have something on file.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._24_Squadron_RAF

Operator of civilian Lockheed Electra Model 10's also found in the UK. Will chase that down as well.
This must be the place
 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 06:22:23 AM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2012, 06:19:34 AM »

Jeff, if you get to make a personal trip to the museum, see if you can get a measurement of the thickness of and a tracing of the triangular piece of aluminum just below the windshield of the electra (picture 2). We need to compare it to the artifact we saw at the symposium earlier this year (picture 1).
Woody (former 3316R)
"the watcher"
 
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2012, 06:25:04 AM »

I will have to take a ladder Woody, it's hanging from the ceiling :-[

http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/

The science museum are usually good at keeping paperwork, stuff that you and me would bin :)
This must be the place
 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 06:29:45 AM by Jeff Victor Hayden »
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2012, 07:17:02 AM »

Oh. That's the one. I posted a picture of it earlier to try to show there were no visable fuel fill ports on the wings. I didn't realize this was it.

You'd better take a tall ladder. ::) Sounds like a good place to look for documents anyway.
Woody (former 3316R)
"the watcher"
 
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Bob Lanz

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2012, 10:14:54 AM »

Jeff, if you get to make a personal trip to the museum, see if you can get a measurement of the thickness of and a tracing of the triangular piece of aluminum just below the windshield of the electra (picture 2). We need to compare it to the artifact we saw at the symposium earlier this year (picture 1).


Woody, more importantly, the rivet pattern i.e. precise distance in between them.  From what I see, they do not match as there are only 8 on the top pic and I count 11 on the bottom pic and perceptibly a difference in spacing.
Doc
TIGHAR #3906
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2012, 01:29:40 PM »

Jeff, if you get to make a personal trip to the museum, see if you can get a measurement of the thickness of and a tracing of the triangular piece of aluminum just below the windshield of the electra (picture 2). We need to compare it to the artifact we saw at the symposium earlier this year (picture 1).

The artifact is not triasngular and it's way too thick to be from anywhere on the nose of the Electra.
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Jay Burkett

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2012, 08:24:14 PM »

Just a cautionary note on comparing rivet patterns:  They are not exact.  The same part, from one aircraft to another, may have a different rivet pattern.  Mass produced parts may have had pre-located pilot holes or dimples in the original production parts which will set the fastener pattern.  Many parts have the fasteners located by the mechanic at the time of assembly.  If the part(s) in question were part of a repair the fastener pattern can be wildly different depending what the mechanic had to work with.  Fasteners in repairs quite often have to be located differently from the original fasteners to maintain edge distance on the repair and new parts, ability to get a bucking bar on the buck-tail of the rivet, etc.  You try to keep the original fastener pattern, but, this is not always possible.

What I am not sure of  "state of the art" that existed by the the time the 10E was built.  I believe the industry standards were pretty well set by then.  A friend of mine is building two Boeing P-26s from original plans.  It was the U. S. Army's first all metal fighter.  It was also the last open cockpit and fixed undercarriage fighter.  These were built in the early 1930's (1931-36).  The plans for these aircraft do not look like plans that I have seen from WWII era aircraft.  They looked like what you would generate if you were to build the aircraft out of wood!  By WWII the industry procedures and processes were very mature and look very much like they do today.  I think Lockheed was farther along than Boeing at that time.  The whole industry was changing pretty fast at that time.  At that time, in the middle of the Depression, drawing media, vellum and possibly linen, were probably expensive.  Because of this it was standard practice to detail multiple parts on a single sheet.  Once you have the drawings in  hand it may be a chore to find any one given part.  It will be interesting --- and FUN!
Jay Burkett, N4RBY
Aerospace Engineer
Fairhope AL
 
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Joshua Chaires

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2012, 07:06:09 PM »

Hey Ric, Great to hear from you a few days ago hope everything went well in Chicago. My friend Jeremy Weagley works for Lockheed Martin out in California. If it is possible I could ask him if there are any old diagrams, charts, magazines, or photos of a Lockheed 10E Diagram. It is quite possible one could be floating around his branch somewhere. Hope all is well.
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Mark Dannebaum

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2012, 10:59:19 PM »

Ric,

Maybe this would help.

The only flying Lockheed L10-E in the world. This airplane has 600 hours since major restoration to the configuration of Amelia Earhart's Lockheed. It has flown around the world.

Lockheed Electra L10-E for sale

My name is Mark Dannebaum and I have no other interest in the above ad other than to see if it can help you identify parts.


Edited to correct link.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 04:34:16 PM by Bob Lanz »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2012, 05:44:50 PM »

Just a cautionary note on comparing rivet patterns:  They are not exact.  The same part, from one aircraft to another, may have a different rivet pattern. 

Yes, and when you're talking about hastily made repairs the chance for variation increases.

What I am not sure of  "state of the art" that existed by the the time the 10E was built.  I believe the industry standards were pretty well set by then.

Yes, industry standards were pretty well set but the Model 10 predates the great explosion in aircraft production that began in 1939.  For the most part, part numbers were not stamped into parts and parts manuals did not include illustrations. 
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Michael Elliot

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Re: Lockheed Engineering Drawings needed
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2012, 09:30:26 PM »

Has anyone followed up the survivors and contacted current and former owners to see if a set of blueprints emerges?
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