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Author Topic: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance  (Read 59646 times)

Mark Pearce

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #75 on: July 11, 2012, 12:31:17 PM »

Yes, Jeff-  very good discovery.  I take my lumps.  I will accept that Betty had real flight experience. 

Earlier this morning I checked the FAA’s online “Airmen Certification” webpage and found four pilots named “Klenck”-

RAYMOND EDWIN KLENCK
RICHARD GORDON KLENCK
WILLIAM JOHN KLENCK
ROBERT EDWARD KLENCK

Two pilots can be found under the name “Earhart”-

AMELIA MARY EARHART
AMELIA ROSE EARHART

Betty’s records from the 1940’s may have fallen through the cracks.  I accept that as a very real possibility.

I do continue to see problems with the notebook however.   
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Matt Revington

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2012, 12:42:45 PM »

Thanks Gregory
I had seen that already, its ambiguous just like everything else in regard to Betty's notebook, tantalizing even, but ultimately I still don't see what is added to our knowledge of Amelia by this.
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Jeff Carter

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2012, 12:50:52 PM »

Well, it was worth a try.

She did solo in St. Petersburg and did announce her dream of getting a commercial license at the time:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=YCpPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fk0DAAAAIBAJ&dq=betty-klenck&pg=4628%2C7712006
(Scroll down to "Wings Sprout")

In the interview she says she got married shortly after meeting her husband (was it 23 days?).  She did indeed get married soon after her solo flight:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=tBtPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jk0DAAAAIBAJ&dq=betty-klenck&pg=5272%2C5609701

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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #78 on: July 11, 2012, 12:59:33 PM »

Two pilots can be found under the name “Earhart”-

AMELIA MARY EARHART
AMELIA ROSE EARHART

From her website,
Quote
Amelia Rose Earhart is a namesake and distant relative of the original Amelia Earhart. She is a private pilot, flying the Cirrus SR-20 at Independence Aviation at Centennial Airport in Denver, Colorado. She is a reporter at KUSA, the local NBC affiliate where she reports on traffic and breaking news.
LTM,

Bruce
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #79 on: July 16, 2012, 05:58:40 AM »

What did Betty's dad do for a living?

In the May 2002 AE Forum text file, Ric says this about Betty's father:
Quote
Betty's father worked for the power company and, in those days, power companies were
eager to encourge consumers to buy electrical appliances to boost demand.  To that
end, they had very attractive arrangements with manufacturers which made it possible
for power company employees to buy new high-end appliances at bargain prices. 
Getting these fancy new products out into the neighborhoods was an effective
marketing strategy.
LTM,

Bruce
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #80 on: July 17, 2012, 03:13:08 AM »

Gary, you're still thinking like a sixty-something.  You're looking for music, sweet, sweet music.

Betty was 15 years old at the time.  As I've noted before, kids are going to be kids.  Yeah, she loved music.  But she probably also loved playing with her father's sleek new radio.  Just because there may not be shortwave broadcast stations at the high end of the band doesn't preclude a 15 year-old from spinning that dial as far as it will go.  And, "Wow!  What's that?  It sounds like a voice.  It ain't music, but it sounds neat.  And it's weak.  Must be a long ways off.  Let me see if I can pick out what's being said."
You guys really love that Kool-Aid.

I was expecting Betty's notebook to show that she logged shortwave stations and it apparently doesn't. In her interview she said she wrote down the words to the songs she heard so that she could sing the songs without having to buy the sheet music, remember sheet music? On the day of the claimed Earhart reception, she said that she was doing the same thing and there is no reason that she would try to write down the words for songs heard on a station from, say Poland, since I doubt she spoke Polish or that she had any interest in any foreign language songs.
If there were notations that she had been trying to hear a very rare station from, say Outer Slobovia, that broadcast outside of the normal shortwave broadcast bands on 25,000 kcs, then I could accept that she had tuned the radio up to a point that she might have heard something on 24,840 kcs but her notes only show that she listened to domestic am stations in the normal medium wave broadcast band. And remember, in the whole hour and half tht Betty was listening Earhart never uttered the words "Gardner" nor "Phoenix," words that an authentic emergency message from Amelia on Gardner should have contained.
So I ain't buying it.

gl
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 04:21:37 AM by Gary LaPook »
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Gary LaPook

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #81 on: July 17, 2012, 03:40:13 AM »

FAA search results for

Betty Klenck Brown
Elizabeth Klenck Brown

"No records found based on search criteria provided above."
The Airmen Registry does appear to be incomplete. As a test, I searched for licenses for people I know had thme,
Florence Lowe (Pancho Barnes)
Robert Cummings (actor and holder of the first CFI certificate)
Fred Noonan (commercial pilot)
Eleanor Roosevelt (student pilot)
Herbert LaPook (my uncle)
and none of these showed up in the FAA Registry.

Also see:
http://www.cfidarren.com/r-famous.htm

gl

« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 03:48:53 AM by Gary LaPook »
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Hal Beck

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Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #82 on: June 17, 2014, 11:11:54 AM »

Hello,

I'm not sure where the best place is for this post, so moderator please move it as necessary.

The Betty story is told very clearly in various Tighar reports, but I'm hazy on where Tighar's investigations were, pre-Betty.  Had the reef landing hypothesis already been put forward?  Did Betty put Tighar's thinking in a new direction, or reinforce ideas it already had?

Thanks!
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #83 on: June 17, 2014, 04:23:03 PM »

Hal

The body of post loss signal receptions pre dates our discovery of Betty's notebook by many years, in fact it was the receptions that caused the Navy to send the Colorado down to the Phoenix Islands in 1937, so the landing on the reef theory is the oldest of all Earhart disappearance solutions. 

For any single reception to be genuine, she had to be on land in relatively good shape.  That dictates a successful landing somewhere, and the reef flat at low tide is one of the most logical places, so pre Betty we were thinking about her landing on the reef flat.

Betty's notebook pushed us to think about the possibilities of radio propagation and further look into and catalog the overall body of receptions which revealed the patterns that we see.  It also spurred a lot of research into what the content might mean.

I hope that helps your understanding.

Andrew

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JNev

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Re: Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #84 on: August 31, 2015, 11:17:47 AM »

It is a simple request that I make. If she was in the habit of listening to shortwave broadcasts then she should have notes in her notebook that supports that and, if they are there, adds further credence to her claim.

I posted this link earlier in this thread, but I guess you missed it.

TIGHAR has provided a summary of all of the films and songs referred to in the notebook.

Quote
It might be that her notebook will support her story, let's just see it.

It seems to me that her notebook does support her story.  This chart has been available for 12 years for folks to inspect.  Do you doubt the veracity of the report?  Do you think TIGHAR is lying about the movies and songs referred to in the book? 

There may be other things in Betty's notebook that she would not like to have posted on the internet for all to see. The eight pages shown here seem good enough for our purposes here.

Nothing essential to the Niku hypothesis hangs on Betty's notebook.  I guess you are thinking that she decided in her old age (78 in 2000, I believe) to make up a story about her childhood that would bring her riches, fame, and glory.  If so, she sure worked hard to fake the document.
Nothing shown indicates that she ever listened to shortwave broadcasts either before the Earhart event of after. These pages do support my point in that they show she did listen to local commercial broadcast of the current songs and so supports my point that whatever she heard on that day was most likely also on the standard AM broadcast band. See jury instruction 203.

gl

This has drawn fresh interest and perhaps time and events can bring us to a fresh view -

Is there truly any harm in TIGHAR releasing the notebook in it's entirety?  It is clearly vital reference material as to TIGHAR's report on the contents that are considered germane, but to the point here - Betty, the soul of integrity in my view, could reveal a great deal more to us if the full range of her 'scanning' habits were known.  No one would expect embarrassing private comments to be revealed - but that does not appear to be the nature of a document that she would release even to TIGHAR. 

Betty is also now deceased, bless her - a lady no doubt of the same fine integrity as that 15 year old girl she was in 1937.

The full context of Betty's listening habits as recorded in the full notebook does appear vital.  TIGHAR's attempt to summarize it are appreciated - but even the best such summary cannot convey all the important nuances therein - some of which may even support TIGHAR's view of the weight of this material.  Why not release this?

To continue to not release it breeds an unfortunate air of defensiveness, however unintended, as well.  It seems this would be a major credibility feather in TIGHAR's cap to step up to this.
- Jeff Neville

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JNev

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Re: Betty's Notebook - ethics of acceptance
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2015, 04:46:19 AM »

Additionally, it is noted upon review of Ric's last interview with Betty that TIGHAR is in possession of all of the correspondence that she wrote to people to try to get their attention as to her story / notebook.  What Betty said along the way in doing so could tell a great deal about her belief and how it may have evolved as she appealed to others along the way.  Can TIGHAR produce that material?
- Jeff Neville

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