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Author Topic: Electra Handling?  (Read 56472 times)

C.W. Herndon

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2012, 08:50:33 PM »

CORALtm -- Concretion Of Rusted Aluminum Lattice

Is that an Australian definition?

I won't blame you a bit if you come back with some type of put-down of us southerners.
Woody (former 3316R)
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2012, 09:49:45 PM »

Other than that it is quite straight forward and a joy to fly other than the roar of the engines in your ears.

Thanks for the info about the tail wheel and rudder management during takeoff.

Did you fly in the days before noise-canceling headsets?

Do you think your hearing would be affected by spending 20+ hours in the cockpit?

Did you ever experience any short-term degradation in your hearing after a long flight in the Beech?
LTM,

           Marty
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2012, 10:05:13 PM »

Ya gotta point me to the link concerning her lack of panic experiencing ground effect.

From James A. Collopy's letter:

"The take-off was hair-raising as after taking every yard of the 1000 yard runway from the north west end of the aerodrome towards the sea, the aircraft had not left the ground 50 yards from the end of the runway.   
   
"When it did leave it sank away but was by this time over the sea. It continued to sink to about five or six feet above the water and had not climbed to more than 100 feet before it disappeared from sight.     

"In spite of this however, it was obvious that the aircraft was well handled and pilots of Guinea Airways who have flown Lockheed aircraft were loud in their praise of the take-off with such an overload."     
LTM,

           Marty
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2012, 12:35:27 AM »

Other than that it is quite straight forward and a joy to fly other than the roar of the engines in your ears.

Thanks for the info about the tail wheel and rudder management during takeoff.

Did you fly in the days before noise-canceling headsets?

Do you think your hearing would be affected by spending 20+ hours in the cockpit?

Did you ever experience any short-term degradation in your hearing after a long flight in the Beech?

Marty, I flew Army U-8Ds, civilian designation Beechcraft Twin Bonanza, for several hundred hours. These had a tricycle landing gear so takeoff was not a big problem nor was visibility over the nose.

Noise, however, was a problem and we did not have noise-canceling headsets. Our longest flights were about 3 hours but we had a lot of short-term hearing degradation. Sometimes it would carry over to the next day but it was usually greatly reduced by then. I can't imagine what it would be like to fly one for 20 hours. Probably wouldn't be able to hear much at all for several days.

I have a lot of permanent hearing loss from my military flying. But it was mostly because of the helicopters. They are really noisy.
Woody (former 3316R)
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2012, 01:27:11 AM »

Did you ever fly the army version?
Woody (former 3316R)
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2012, 02:05:33 AM »

Did you ever fly the army version?

No I haven't Woody and now that I think about it, I suppose the Army version was more stripped down with less insulation.  So, I guess they would be much louder than the Civilian version I flew.  In any event I guess the question is did the noise in the Electra inhibit communications to AE and FN?

Now you have it right about the Army version. Those twin augmenter tubes on each engine would really rattle your brain. If I remember correcty, they were only 340 hp but the higher operating RPM, about 2400/2600, I think, helped to increase the noise level over the Wasp Jr. too.

I think you are right about the real question and I have no doubt that the answer is YES, YES, YES.

By the way, I was not trying to compare the Twin Bonanza to the Twin Beech. I've never been inside of a Twin Beech and have never even seen an Electra.
Woody (former 3316R)
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2012, 02:12:13 AM »

Woody,
The U8D's had a service ceiling of 30,000 ft. so they must have been pressurized or did you have to be on oxygen?

No, they were not pressurized and we did not have oxygen. We rarely flew above 10,000 ft. We didn't worry about a 900 mile range either. We had so much heavy radio gear in them, if we filled the fuel tanks, we could carry two 170 lb crew members and 40 lbs of baggage. I never will forget those numbers.
Woody (former 3316R)
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2012, 10:24:07 AM »

I always thought the 18 to be one beautiful airplane and "lusted" for one. But it wasn't to be and then the spar problems came along.

Most airplanes get a little touchy in a 20 knot xwind, but especially the tail draggers.

But we drift again I fear.
Woody (former 3316R)
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2012, 10:49:04 AM »

No Marty, never had any short term hearing problems.  Had noise cancelling headsets but the drone still came through.  I can only speculate that after 20 hours of that drone there would be some hearing impairment especially if you are speaking of the headsets used in 1937.

I speculate that, too, having been in some small aircraft with and without Bose ANR headsets.

Hearing loss is cumulative.  The longer the exposure to a loud sound, the more it affects the hearing.
LTM,

           Marty
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Bill Roe

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2012, 10:54:57 AM »


Woody, they only built 149 Electras ..........

 

Here's a link to one being restored during 2000.  Gives some specs on AE's airplane.
http://ind.gmnews.com/news/2000-11-08/Front_Page/19.html

Oh fer Pete's sakes - this is Grace McGuire - planning to recreate AE's fateful trip.  Did she ever do it? 

« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 11:02:26 AM by William Roe »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2012, 10:55:08 AM »

Marty, might I add that the Lockheed 10E Amelia flew had two Pratt & Whitney 600 HP engines as opposed to the Beech 18 with two 450 HP engines.

Our sources indicated that the engine was rated at 550 HP in 1937.  I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy in accounts about the rating.

Quote
I am sure those 9 cylinder smoke belching beasts in the Lockheed were considerably louder than the 450's in the 18.  Surely could after hours of listening to them have had something to do with communications if I am getting what your questions infer.

Yes, that's the point
LTM,

           Marty
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Bill Roe

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2012, 01:40:21 PM »



Emelia would have had to be as good as an Alaska bush pilot to land a tail dragger on a jagged water covered reef.  I somehow doubt that she was that good. 


Bingo - {this should be over in the "Electra Handling?" thread.......}

or even a smooth reef.  Based on what I've read and what little I know of her, I doubt that she would consider a gear up landing. 

It's difficult for me to set aside combat experience/training and put myself in her seat.  But I'll say it again - she was out of her element and should not have been on this sortie.  In addition to her lack of capability she appears to have been naive.  Naive - stupid innocence.

Sorry for getting off track on this thread - can this be moved to Electra Handling?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 03:53:32 PM by Bruce Thomas »
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Greg Daspit

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2012, 02:32:07 PM »

A picture of the reef suspected to be landing spot.
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2012, 02:54:10 PM »

I can post the link to my research but I am unable to figure out how to insert a link on this forum being so new to me.  If you could help me with that I would appreciate it.  Also, where the heck is the spell checker here?  I hate making typos.

I suggest you (and everyone else who hasn't done so!) spend some time looking at the Forum FAQ with lots of very succinct tips and techniques for inserting links, etc. 

As for spellcheck, well, read this thread ... you're in luck if you're using Firefox.  :D
LTM,

Bruce
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Electra Handling?
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2012, 03:19:50 PM »

A picture of the reef suspected to be landing spot.

Gregory, here is an overhead picture of the theorized landing area. The view is in nearly the same direction, toward the Norwich City, as your photo.
Woody (former 3316R)
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