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Author Topic: Mapping Coordinates  (Read 9595 times)

Randy Conrad

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Mapping Coordinates
« on: July 23, 2011, 07:20:28 AM »

Ric.....Hey!!! Just wanted you to know that I had a wonderful time listening to your seminar there in Atchison, Kansas. Overall, it was a very rewarding weekend! For those of you who missed it...Ric talked for about two and a half hours. Very informative and let me say that Ric has all his ducks in a row. Anyway, as I was glancing at things in the birthplace museum I caught where the museum had the actual document of Amelia's purchase of the Electra and where she clearly stated that the Electra had to have the gasoline capacity of 4500 miles. I was rather overcome by Amelia's persistance on making sure that all the details were done to a T. Basically, people's overall attitudes in Atchison almost let me know what kind of woman Amelia might have been. Stubborn and bullheaded and things are goin to be done my way!!! But, overall its a good attitude to have. Anyway, I was really amazed that the Electra only lasted a year. Almost to the anniversary date of her disappearance! Anyway, this past week I have been doing some research and been talking to a lady from Lexington, Nebraska who is related to Amelia through the Earhart family tree. As we were talking about things in Atchison, Ric's seminar, and just stuff in general...she pointed me to a website that had pictures of Amelia and Fred looking at maps before her maiden voyage around the world!!! As I was glancing at them, I caught something that your team may have caught already, but has led me to believe that a great mistake had happened. In this particular map, it shows a greater part of the phoenix islands, with howland island and gardner island all in one big picture. On this map it appears that Fred may have erased or crossed out a portion of their itenary going from Howland Island to Hawaii...but however retracing the map to where they were going to Gardner and the phoenix islands region, and then on to Hawaii. It shows where two flight patterns were used. My question is...did Fred Noonan give Amelia coordinates for Gardner Island instead of Howland Island by mistake, and did Amelia think she was going to Howland Island as planned! Also, as some of you may have noticed...you can almost fit the two maps of Howland and Gardner Island on top of each other. They are so close in similarity! Also, in my research I learned that Amelia had enough fuel left in the Electra to last another 4 hours had she landed at Howland!!! My other question is if this is the case scenario...and she was headed to Gardner after passing over Howland...is the trip about an additional 4 hours...If this is such the case...then the Electra may have indeed landed on Gardner Island (Niku). Anyway, sending pics of the map and a letter that readers may find interesting on Fred Noonan! thanks!!!!!
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Mapping Coordinates
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 07:31:26 AM »

Atchison was a hoot.  We'll do it bigger next year.

That map is very strange.  I've never seen it before.  Where did it come from?
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Mapping Coordinates
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 07:51:10 AM »

Ric....Good Morning!!! I got this from a website that Sharla Wattier House sent me through facebook the other night. She is related to Amelia through the grapevine and has informed me that you and her have spoken before!! Anyway, the website is http://www.e-southerndata.com/earhart  Hope this helps!!! Also, just curious...is your assistant Karen married???
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Mapping Coordinates
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 08:09:31 AM »

Anyway, the website is http://www.e-southerndata.com/earhart  Hope this helps!!!

Thanks.  It sure does.  The map and the website are total nonsense.

Also, just curious...is your assistant Karen married???

Karen is a TIGHAR member volunteer and a dynamite researcher.  She is not married.
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Mapping Coordinates
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 09:48:21 PM »

Can someone say why the map and website are total nonsense?  What about the letter?

We aren't supposed to put forward opinions without some form of evidence so if we call something nonsense or total nonsense then what evidence backs that up? 

I may be missing something important here but doesnt this map lend credibility to AE and FN having a plan B when they failed to find Howland?  At least suggests they knew going south on line 157/357 would bring them to several islands.  Please help me understand why they are "total nonsense".  Thanks in advance.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Mapping Coordinates
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2011, 05:03:47 AM »

The picture with the charts is well known , probably the alternative routes are erased c.q. traced in by manipulation . The siteĀ“s content on the subject is nonsense .

The Phoenix route looks like someone has drawn a line using MS Paint and a mouse ratherthan by pencil/pen and hand
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Mapping Coordinates
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 10:33:14 AM »

Can someone say why the map and website are total nonsense?  What about the letter?

We aren't supposed to put forward opinions without some form of evidence so if we call something nonsense or total nonsense then what evidence backs that up? 

I may be missing something important here but doesnt this map lend credibility to AE and FN having a plan B when they failed to find Howland?  At least suggests they knew going south on line 157/357 would bring them to several islands.  Please help me understand why they are "total nonsense".  Thanks in advance.
To respond as delicately as possible:  You're correct that things should not be simply dismissed "without some form of evidence."  The map and its surrounding story came up about 8 years ago and were investigated and quickly seen to be the product of an overactive imagination.  To say more would dredge up matters unnecessarily.  Ric's characterization of this as "total nonsense" is charitable.
LTM,

Bruce
TIGHAR #3123R
 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 06:26:24 AM by Bruce Thomas »
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Mapping Coordinates
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 01:51:59 PM »

I was merely trying to make a point and not leading the website and the pic of the map to be the center of the controversy. What I was merely trying to say is that it's possible that Fred could have given Amelia the wrong  set of coordinates and thus Amelia taking the Gardner route by accident instead of going to Howland like she should have. What I really want to know is and someone help me out here...but how far in hours and miles is it from Howland to Gardner...Just trying to answer a question of my own and trying to figure out if this is where her remaining fours hours of fuel went to!!! Thanks!!!
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Mapping Coordinates
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 03:02:08 PM »

Fred didn't give Amelia coordinates for anything. He was the navigator.  All she did was fly the heading he told her to fly.

It's 350 nautical miles from Howland to Gardner.  At 130 knots (the Electra's normal cruising speed at altitude), that would take 2 hours and 41 minutes.  But that doesn't mean much.
We don't know how close she was to Howland and we don't know what speed she was using when she was "running on line."
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Irvine John Donald

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Re: Mapping Coordinates
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2011, 03:18:17 PM »

Thanks to all for the responses. Knowing the information you provided in your answers helps readers understand the history of this map and gives them more information to understand Ric's response and formulate their own opinions. 

When I see something like this that is new to me, and likely to many other readers, then it helps to know the background, if there is one.
Respectfully Submitted;

Irv
 
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