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Author Topic: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream  (Read 408286 times)

Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #465 on: January 30, 2013, 11:54:41 AM »

Thanks.  One point to keep in mind is we've never had an Italian Balm bottle with intact product inside to test.  All we have had to work with are faint remnants the lab can scrape off the sides of the interior of one of the bottles.  Most sellers wash them thoroughly before offering them for sale.  If a bottle of Italian Balm ever appeared with ample contents inside, I think we'd have more than just the close match we obtained.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR

Well please explain report #1180 which states Dr.Mass has a "partially filled bottle of Campana", for comparison to the artifact.  see description below.

"The fragment contains two dark brown residues and one white residue in its base, as well
as a reddish-brown residue near the top. The FTIR spectra from these residues were
compared to those from a non-archaeological and partially filled bottle of Campana
Italian Balm conducted by the Evans Analytical Group
(David Saperstein, PhD
Scientist, FTIR, GCMS and Raman Services)"

Clearly a partially filled known bottle of Campana Balm is a lot different that the one you just described with faint crusty scrapings inside.
Scientists speak in very literal, as opposed to colloquial, terms and it's important to interpret them as such. Her description of "partially filled" is accurate in the literal sense, since any amount of material partially fills it.  My statement is also accurate.  The material inside the authentic bottle was scant, but enough to provide a picture of what had been inside it. My point is I would prefer to have a more fully intact product inside because I believe this would have yielded an even better match than the close match obtained.  I spotted such a bottle on a website, contacted the owner, but he did not wish to part with the bottle or a sample of its contents.  Should such a bottle ever appear for sale, I would purchase and test it as well.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 12:42:46 PM by Joe Cerniglia »
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william patterson

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #466 on: January 30, 2013, 01:22:25 PM »

Joe, that seems to be a problem in communicated details to the reader. In one of your reports it does indeed show a picture of a partially filled campana bottle, with label. While you never state that particular bottle was the "known bottle tested", it gave the impression to me and probably others.

If I understand you correctly today, you are stating the empty(with traces), non labeled bottle was sent to the lab to be tested against the broken artifact found. Correct?
That empty, non labeled bottle does not have the same curves of an orginal campana bottle, nor can it be said positively 100%  is a known campana bottle. That is a very important point, and is alarming in that there is no known base sample being tested.
Therefore you have been arguing and testing an unknown bottle sample against an unknown artifact sample?
 
Until you have a known campana sample to test, I really do not see the point in trying to prove the artifact is campana balm.

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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #467 on: January 30, 2013, 02:27:17 PM »

I understand what you are saying, but could you let me know why you say that the non-artifact bottle was unlabeled?  Did I say it was unlabeled?  The Campana Italian Balm bottle that was tested was labeled Campana Italian Balm.

The non-artifact bottle that was partially filled is of a larger size than the artifact, as has been stated many times. We know there were several sizes but have only been able to locate 2 of these known sizes, one of which was empty, the other of which was partially filled.

Joe Cerniglia
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william patterson

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #468 on: January 30, 2013, 04:11:40 PM »

At this point you are confusing me with the number of bottles. I am sure I am not alone.
If trying to prove the found artifact is campana balm it must be tested against a known sample of campana balm.
In any size.

In your research we have a picture of a near full bottle labeled campana balm with crust near the top.
You have now stated that bottle was not used. That you could not obtain it.
In your research we also see a basically empty bottle(with residue) that resembles a campana bottle. A Tighar member provided it, and that bottle is unlabeled.

So where is the picture of the empty Campana bottle with label that was tested against the artifact?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 04:13:52 PM by william patterson »
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Alan Harris

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #469 on: January 30, 2013, 06:33:05 PM »

I am sure I am not alone.

Not quite alone, at least; this current dialogue has now gotten me confused as well.  I admit that is not a rare event or a feat very difficult to accomplish.   :)
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #470 on: January 30, 2013, 07:39:03 PM »

So where is the picture of the empty Campana bottle with label that was tested against the artifact?
I'm having difficulty posting photos in response to the above question.  Is the server having issues?  I notice mobile internet is very spotty as well.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR
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william patterson

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #471 on: January 30, 2013, 08:05:48 PM »

Yes, I found it in your original Notion paper, 3rd bottle, looks like label upside down.
It doesn't look like anything is in, and does look washed, I am surprised anything was found.
I had always thought the 95% full one was the one tested since it actually has fluid in it.

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/62_LotionBottle/62_LotionBottle.htm
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #472 on: January 30, 2013, 10:50:28 PM »

I'm having difficulty posting photos in response to the above question.  Is the server having issues?  I notice mobile internet is very spotty as well.

Four images were posted today.

1. What size image are you trying to post?

2. What resolution?

3. What is the error message you receive, if any?

If we don't pick up a clue there, then we will move on to other standard questions:

1. What browser?  Version?

2. Operating system?

3. Kind of connection--wireless or wired?
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #473 on: January 31, 2013, 04:48:37 AM »

I was trying to post some new images for the Dreskin, which arrived yesterday, Marty.  They were small, < 200 kb.  I'll try again later.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 04:54:57 AM by Joe Cerniglia »
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #474 on: February 09, 2013, 07:30:49 PM »

Mark Pearce asked that I post scanned images of the little flyer that shipped with the box of Campana Dreskin in 1934.  The flyer shows that Dreskin in certain instances was marketed as a product for both genders in 1934.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #475 on: February 09, 2013, 07:34:23 PM »

Even Italian Balm had a few men's uses listed on the flip side of the Dreskin flyer from 1934.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #476 on: February 09, 2013, 07:36:00 PM »

Mark also came across this 1945 newspaper ad, listing Dreskin under "Men's Needs"

http://www.torranceca.gov/archivednewspapers/Herald/1944%20Sept%2014%20-%201946%20Jan%203/PDF/00000494.pdf

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR

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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #477 on: February 09, 2013, 07:45:00 PM »

But Billboard Magazine from Nov. 27, 1943 says, "Campana Serenade, with Dick Powell, sells not only the balm that started the Campana fortune, but Dreskin, Coolies, DDD, and Solitaire make-up, all in the femme beauty line."  The marketing was obviously not always consistent and could be changed to suit the opportunity or however the marketers thought Dreskin might be used. 

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #478 on: February 09, 2013, 07:49:24 PM »

The Dreskin 1934 flyer may have noted some men's uses for their flagship Italian Balm, but this advertisement from the Woman's Home Companion of Jan. 1935 is obviously targeting women primarily.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR
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Joe Cerniglia

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #479 on: February 09, 2013, 07:50:51 PM »

Same image from Woman's Home Companion, showing the "punch line" at the top.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078 ECR
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