Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 19 20 [21] 22 23 ... 39   Go Down

Author Topic: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream  (Read 444450 times)

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5445
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #300 on: October 04, 2012, 06:35:35 AM »

From what TIGHAR know about the coastguards, how likely is it?

About as likely as Terry-the-Transvestite to explain the gender-specifc artifacts.
Logged

JNev

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 778
  • It's a GOOD thing to be in the cornfield...
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #301 on: October 04, 2012, 06:56:10 AM »

Ooops...

Ric, I keep an old compact mirror in my guitar shop tool kit... not sure then just what your comment might suggest about me...  ;D
- Jeff Neville

Former Member 3074R
 
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5445
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #302 on: October 04, 2012, 07:03:43 AM »

Ric, I keep an old compact mirror in my guitar shop tool kit... not sure then just what your comment might suggest about me...  ;D

We also found cosmetic. Do you also keep some rouge in the tool kit?  The Seven Site as guitar shop ... I'll admit it's not an alternative hypothesis that we've considered.
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5445
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #303 on: October 04, 2012, 10:03:11 AM »

Quote
About as likely as Terry-the-Transvestite to explain the gender-specifc artifacts

Lets not open that debate up again please  ;D

Agreed!
Logged

Mark Pearce

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 163
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #304 on: October 04, 2012, 11:15:09 AM »

Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5445
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #305 on: October 04, 2012, 12:01:18 PM »

Gentlemen, there is still a huge problem identifying the Campana’s Italian Balm bottle as “gender specific”

Point taken.  Campana Italian Balm, although undoubtedly popular with women, also appears to have been marketed to men.  The small bottle found at the Seven Site therefore should not be considered to be gender-specific in the same way as, for example, the compact mirror and cosmetic.

Sorry, but I don't see how TIGHAR"S claim, "Campana Italian Balm, and hand lotions in general at the time, were marketed solely to women," holds up under scrutiny.

I don't know who said that. You haven't provided a source.  I speak for TIGHAR on matters of evidence, either by my own writings or by approving the publication of the writings of others on the TIGHAR website or in press releases. 

TIGHAR's is an on-going investigation.  We report the results of our research as we go along.  Sometimes further research brings in new information that allows us to correct previous impressions that were not correct.  We're grateful when that happens.  When new research appears to be legitimate we happily incorporate it into our understanding and interpretation of the evidence.  We do it all the time.  But language like, "Sorry, but I don't see how TIGHAR"S claim...holds up under scrutiny." is hostile and accusatory in tone.  It is detrimental to the maintenance of this forum as a place for reasoned discussion and research.

Logged

Joe Cerniglia

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 278
  • Niku in a rainstorm
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #306 on: October 04, 2012, 12:47:29 PM »

Wow, nice piece of research, Alan. 

Ric, the quotation Alan references is from the Research Bulletin I wrote in February.  True, the source should have been cited.

Still, an excellent piece of cultural research.  I did not catch these ads, nor did the EPAC.  You did.  Based on your earlier research, I am impressed but not surprised.  I've seen your tenacity in earlier posts.

In the spirit of a defense of my claim Campana's focus was women, which I hope you will not mind me making - and is in no way meant to undermine your research - in America of the 1930s, the Campana story may have been far different.  The U.S. 1930s ads I've seen include nude female silhouettes, women sponsors, and women's narratives.  Their factory entrance featured an art deco mural of stylized women in various depictions.  The radio ads I've heard from the First Nighter Program are all aimed at women. (I will provide links and files when I get back to the laptop.)

Granted, you have one 1959 Boston Globe ad that pitches to men and women, but this date is 26 years after the date code on the bottle itself, which is 1933. By then the product, which had experienced drastic sales declines, could well have tried a new advertising approach.

I have a question in to Bill Lockhart as to whether a U.S. to Canada bottle supply chain may have existed for Canadian versions of Campana. (The artifact is stamped with a Bridgeton, New Jersey factory stamp.) To my knowledge, there was a  sizable Toronto base of operations.

If you can find a U.S. ad from the 1930s that specifically mentions men, you've got something even more interesting, but I would still say that a random sampling of the U.S. ads would show a target market for women, and that U.S. hand lotions in the 1930s followed this trend.

But who knows?  It would be a balanced approach as well, if you find something, to mention whether you ran into any of the kinds of ads that I saw.  Give us your impression of the ratios encountered.

Still, nice work.

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078CER
Logged

Alan Harris

  • T3
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #307 on: October 04, 2012, 01:43:13 PM »

Wow, nice piece of research, Alan. 

Ric, the quotation Alan references is from the Research Bulletin I wrote in February.  True, the source should have been cited.

Joe, I appreciate any and all credit (and accept blame) when it is due, however, in this case the person you should be responding to is Mark Pearce, it was his post.
Logged

Jeff Carter

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 78
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #308 on: October 04, 2012, 01:54:43 PM »

Potentially silly question, but if one never asks, one never learns...  I did not find the answer in any Google searches of tighar.org.

How is the Date Code "3" on the bottom of the Campana jar known to represent "1933" and not "1943".  I did find some debate online of when Owens-Illinois switched from 1-digit Date Code to 2-digit Date Code, but did not find a definitive answer to the question for 1933/1943 years.
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/62_LotionBottle/62_LotionBottle.htm
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/62_LotionBottle/03bottlebottom.jpg

Thanks in advance.

Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5445
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #309 on: October 04, 2012, 02:30:06 PM »

How is the Date Code "3" on the bottom of the Campana jar known to represent "1933" and not "1943".

Not a silly question at all. Thanks for paying such close attention.  A paper on the Society for Historical Archaeology website by bottle guru Bill Lockhart explains:

"At some point in 1940, someone in the Owens Illinois Glass Co. seems to have realized that a zero could indicate either 1930 or 1940, so a new code needed to be
developed.  The answer was to add a period indicating a manufacture of 1940 or later."

 Our bottle has no period after the 3.  The bottle was therefore manufactured in 1933.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 04:48:28 PM by Bruce Thomas »
Logged

Jeff Victor Hayden

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #310 on: October 04, 2012, 02:30:12 PM »

Potentially silly question, but if one never asks, one never learns...  I did not find the answer in any Google searches of tighar.org.
How is the Date Code "3" on the bottom of the Campana jar known to represent "1933" and not "1943".  I did find some debate online of when Owens-Illinois switched from 1-digit Date Code to 2-digit Date Code, but did not find a definitive answer to the question for 1933/1943 years.
http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/62_LotionBottle/62_LotionBottle.htm

http://tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Archives/Research/Bulletins/62_LotionBottle/03bottlebottom.jpg

Thanks in advance.


This may help Jeff
http://www.sha.org/research/owens-Illinois_article.cfm 
This must be the place
 
Logged

Joe Cerniglia

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 278
  • Niku in a rainstorm
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #311 on: October 04, 2012, 02:33:31 PM »

My apologies to Mark.  I'm still getting acquainted with names here, and typing quickly as I do.  Congratulations to Mark Pearce.

Here's a link to a radio spot for Campana from 1944 from the First Nighter, a coast-to-coast radio program. One can hypothesize a Coast Guard connection to the Campana Italian Balm bottle, but one also must assume that the Coast Guardsman had been exposed to these stateside ads:

Link:
www.vstreff.org/Scripts/Chinese_Gong.pdf

Announcer:
Everywhere you go, women are doing extra work subjecting their hands to
extra punishment. Yet, have you noticed how some women keep those busy
hands well groomed? Soft and youthful looking?
 
Woman:
You can do it too, by choosing Original Campana Balm when work and
weather threaten to make your hands look coarse and unlovely. Beginning
tomorrow, use Original Campana Balm before you start work. It’s
protection against dirt and grime. And be sure to use it every time after
your hands have been in water, also, to help bring back the adorable
smoothness that your [skin] loses when you scrub frequently with soap and water.
Original Campana Balm acts so quickly and with such positive results, that
you too will soon be calling it the before and after lotion. Remember that
smooth, protected, un-chapped hands add to your efficiency, bolster your
morale, and please the man who holds them.
 
Announcer:   
Lack of certain basic ingredients, for a while, caused a shortage of Original
Campana Balm. We’re happy to say that these ingredients are again
available, and your dealer can now obtain supplies of Original Campana
Balm. If he does not have it, ask him to order it from his wholesaler.
 
Woman:
If you prefer a lighter lotion, ask for the new Campana Cream Balm, the
creamy lotion with Lanolin.
 
Announcer: Be sure you get either the Original Campana Balm in the green and white
carton or the new Campana Cream Balm in the yellow and white carton.
###

I see evidence, too, however, that there were various angled pitches aimed at those worried about sun protection.  Clearly, they weren't trying to exclude men.  Maybe the Company was even trying to pick up a male clientele, while all the while maintaining the customer base of females. 

I'd also say that the context of other artifacts found nearby - the possible compact case piece, the mirror, the rouge, the feminine-styled ointment pot - establish a contextual point of reference that help establish plausibility that this was a hand lotion, belonging to a woman. It would have been handy as a powder base or a sunscreen.

But...Mark Pearce's analysis once again makes clear why establishing a single smoking gun artifact, or even excluding whole segments of the population from such an artifact indisputably, is fraught with difficulty.  The patterns of evidence will always make the stronger case.


Joe Cerniglia
#3078CER

Joe Cerniglia
TIGHAR #3078CER
Logged

Jeff Victor Hayden

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1387
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #312 on: October 04, 2012, 02:46:07 PM »

Would it be likely then that one of  the coastguards at the Loran station in 1944 brought with him a 1933 bottle of Campana Balm? The contents of the 11 year old bottle of balm must have been used even more sparingly than the freckle cream.
This must be the place
 
Logged

Jeff Carter

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 78
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #313 on: October 04, 2012, 03:44:23 PM »

In googling for other bottles manufactured under Design Patent 85925:

Logged

richie conroy

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 1412
Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #314 on: October 04, 2012, 06:41:05 PM »

is this jar the same one Tighar purchased a while back ?

 http://www.junkwhat.com/antique%20vintage/6204n5%20lot%20of%205%20pcs.htm
We are an echo of the past


Member# 416
 
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 19 20 [21] 22 23 ... 39   Go Up
 

Copyright 2018 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Powered by PHP