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Author Topic: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream  (Read 425093 times)

Mark Pearce

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #180 on: August 22, 2012, 01:23:55 PM »



ahh yes. the "dilapitated shack" may well have been the tin roofed leftover from the coconut plantation

...and maybe not.

See replies #8 and #15 in 'Join the Search'-
 
Re: The castaway -- ships and boats lost between ~1919-1939

http://tighar.org/smf/index.php/topic,900.msg17825.html#msg17825
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #181 on: August 22, 2012, 01:34:31 PM »

well, I'm not sure. Has the sextant box #'s been able to date the castaway to a certain date period?? I thought they were calling them surplus wwi sextants but I cannot be sure off the top of my head.

Here is a very detailed article on the sextant box numbers, which provides data for you to make your own guesses as well as some guesses by Ric Gillespie and Art Rypinksi.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #182 on: August 22, 2012, 02:50:15 PM »

Mark,

My compliments on an excellent piece of research.  We had not seen the 1924 newspaper article.  Let's take a close look at it.

"Seven islands comprise the group, which is held under Crown lease by a wellknown Island identity."

There are eight islands in the Phoenix Group - McKean, Gardner, Hull, Sydney, Enderbury, Phoenix, Birnie and Canton.  According to Harry Maude's history of Gardner Island prepared as part of his proposal for the Phoenix Islands Settlement Scheme, the "well-known island identity" was the Samoa Shipping and Trading Company, Ltd. who were issued an Occupation License for a term of 87 years on January 1st, 1914.  The manager of the company, Captain Allen, "made several visits to Gardner for the purpose of cutting and loading timber for ship repairing but no other use was made of the island."

"A dilapidated shack told of a probable castaway. Here and there were small clusters of coconut palms,"

In 1924 the only coconut palms on the island were in five small clusters at the west end - three on Nutiran and two in Ritiati.  They were the survivors of the Arundel plantings in 1890-92.  The dilapidated shack was in all likelihood the remains of the well-documented Arundel barracks on Nutiran.



==============================
Auckland Star, December 2, 1929, page 7

Aucklander’s Memories

“Gardner Island is well known to Captain William Ross, Auckland’s veteran mariner, who was ashore there 30 years ago, when he landed Mr. George Ellis, of Auckland, so that a survey might be made with view to establishing a coconut plantation…"

Thirty years ago would be 1899.  The survey by Mr. Ellis may have been done for Lever's Pacific Plantations Limited who were considering taking over the lease around that time.

“…Many vessels were wrecked on Gardner Island in the old days, the survivors dying lonely deaths. Captain Ross found mounds above the graves of sailors when he visited the island 30 years ago, but the skeleton of the last to die was nowhere seen..."
[/quote]

We've found no record of wrecks prior to Norwich City - and not for want of looking - but we could have missed some.  The American Exploring Expedition aboard USS Vincennes visited the island in 1840 and saw no wrecks. The mounds found by Captain Ross circa 1899 may have covered sailors but may also have been the graves of Arundel workers.  In any case, sextant boxes made circa 1918 and products marketed to American women in the 1930s were not commonly available at the turn of the 20th century.

In short, there is nothing in these newspaper accounts that suggest an explanation for anything found at the Seven Site.

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Kevin Weeks

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #183 on: August 22, 2012, 04:41:11 PM »



We've found no record of wrecks prior to Norwich City - and not for want of looking - but we could have missed some.  The American Exploring Expedition aboard USS Vincennes visited the island in 1840 and saw no wrecks. The mounds found by Captain Ross circa 1899 may have covered sailors but may also have been the graves of Arundel workers.  In any case, sextant boxes made circa 1918 and products marketed to American women in the 1930s were not commonly available at the turn of the 20th century.

In short, there is nothing in these newspaper accounts that suggest an explanation for anything found at the Seven Site.

Ric, what are you referring to in the bold??
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dave burrell

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #184 on: August 22, 2012, 05:13:59 PM »

Well a hurricane might account for some of what was found at the 7 site. They tend to leave debris.
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #185 on: August 22, 2012, 05:43:37 PM »

Was doin some research last night at the college library and went back into the old Saturday Evening Posts and Ladies Home Journal. On both accounts, I searched in the years 1916, 1917, 1921, and 1937. Both the Saturday Evening Post and Ladies Home Journal had books that archived the entire year. Pretty interesting, and how times have changed. What I really found interesting was that during the month of December...I could not find one account of an ad leading to Dr. C.H. Berry Freckle Ointment in both magazines. I even went as far as searching the latar year of 1937 and nothing. So I'm wondering how readily available this product was to the American public. If you couldn't find it in the Ladies Home Journal or Saturday Evening Posts on different years...then how would a person go about finding it from state to state?  I'm assuming this product wasn't that easy to come by. Any Suggestions???
 
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Malcolm McKay

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #186 on: August 22, 2012, 06:39:51 PM »

Well a hurricane might account for some of what was found at the 7 site. They tend to leave debris.

Apropos of which, I once did some survey work in a coastal part of northern Australia which being tropical is subject to the usual types of extreme weather. On a low lying area which while covered in light vegetation was in fact part of the flood plain at the mouth of a river I noted what at first sight were shell middens of what I thought was human origin. Such middens are extremely common in those parts of Australia and as such not all that noteworthy - just the usual background noise of human occupation.

But I also extended my research through the literature to ascertain if there were any distinctive features that might be of special interest - just normal belt and braces work. I found an interesting paper on the creation of false middens in tidal areas which are a result of high tides, storm surges etc. accumulating the usual natural debris of shell fragments in piles that can mimic a human created midden.

Now as there are some depressions at the Seven Site I wonder if some of the material like the bones etc. could have been accumulated in them as a result of tidal or storm surges that washed over that part of the island. These surges might not remove deeply rooted plants (I worked in area with mangroves) but would carry light loose material to any depressions which would be natural traps. If this happened it may create an unrecognised bias in the material found in these depressions, if one is working solely from the premise that the material is largely of human origin.
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Alan Harris

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #187 on: August 22, 2012, 06:41:29 PM »

If you couldn't find it in the Ladies Home Journal or Saturday Evening Posts on different years...then how would a person go about finding it from state to state?  I'm assuming this product wasn't that easy to come by. Any Suggestions???
 

IMO that is a valid question, and (again, IMO) there does not appear to have been much national advertising.  The only obvious, and supportable, answer is that it appears quite regularly in the Sears Roebuck catalogs over those years.  One could, from that, speculate that it may also have been in the similar Montgomery Ward catalogs; unfortunately those seem to have more copyright protection than Sears' and are less available for examination.

Other suggestions/speculations (only) are:
•  Dr. Berry's was a small outfit that could not afford advertising in the "slick" magazines with wide circulation.
•  In the earlier years, especially, advertising may have primarily been in local newspapers, I think I have seen examples but can't lay my hands on a reference right this minute.
•  It may well have been marketed directly to druggists through salesmen, mailings, or in trade publications, such that the druggist would then "push" the product to his customers.  However, I don't have a specific example or reference to confirm that.
•  Moving through the '20's and into the '30's, there was increasing public awareness of the dangers of toxic products like this, including several "muck-raking" public-interest books and articles, and the larger magazines may not have wanted the potential liability associated with advertising them.

Just to repeat, all the above except the Sears catalogs are simply my own thoughts and no proof is offered.  Also, as I typed the last point above, about public awareness of the dangers, it brought another of my personal opinions (only) to mind.  I have a mental image of AE as a thoroughly "modern" woman who kept up with the times, and I think it very possible that she was aware of what was in the freckle cream and how dangerous it was, and would therefore not be all that likely to smear it on her face.  But that's just me.
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Matt Revington

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #188 on: August 22, 2012, 07:57:12 PM »

Kevin , beyond the freckle cream jar there was bottle patented in 1933 for campana balm and of course the compact remains , among other stuff
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John Kada

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #189 on: August 22, 2012, 08:32:15 PM »

At the start of this thread, Ric said that the markings embossed on the bottom of this jar show that it was made by the Hazel-Atlas Glass Company, and that further research has shown that it matches Hazel-Atlas design No. 1995.

Can someone point me to a more detailed discussion of how these conclusions were arrived at? I found no Ameliapedia article on this jar; perhaps there is an as-yet-to-be-published Tighar report of some type in the works?...

Assuming the information I'm seeking hasn't already been provided somewhere on this web site (if it has, thanks for pointing it out) I'm wondering if someone in the know might be so kind as to briefly explain how it is known from the embossing on the bottom that the jar was made by Hazel-Atlas, and that it is their style 1995 jar.

Thanks to Randy Conrad for posting a picture (reply #195 above, glass4.jpg) showing the embossing on the bottom of the jar.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #190 on: August 22, 2012, 10:43:37 PM »

I found no Ameliapedia article on this jar; perhaps there is an as-yet-to-be-published Tighar report of some type in the works?...

Thanks for searching.

Your impression that there is no article or Research Bulletin is correct.  Joe Cerniglia is still working on various and sundry details.  I've read dozens of e-mails from him to the Earhart Project Advisory Committee, but it's up to him to decide how to organize what he has learned and present his conclusions.

It's a work-in-progress.
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John Kada

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #191 on: August 22, 2012, 11:28:40 PM »

Ok--looking at the photo Randy posted showing the marking on the bottom of the jar, I realized that what initially looked to me like Babylonian cuneiform actually was decipherable. Part of the mark looked like an 'A', not a very neat A, but an A, i.e., the letter 'Atlas' begins with. This web site shows the Hazel-Atlas bottle mark to be a curved 'H' with a block-style 'A' between its legs. So, from the portion of the bottle in Randy's picture I think we are looking at the 'A' and the legs of the 'H'.  The web site I referred to by the way says that the mark was first used in 1923; if true, that piece of information provides a dating point for the jar that haven't seen discussed on this thread. The mark apparently remained unchanged for decades, according to another web site whose url now escapes me.
 
I am still curious to know how certain Joe et. al. are that the jar is style #1995.

Also of interest from the above web site: "Hazel-Atlas manufactured tremendous quantities of "depression" pressed glassware in a wide variety of patterns throughout the 1920s, '30s and '40s. They also produced many of the white milkglass "inserts" used inside zinc fruit jar lids, as well as many types of milkglass cold cream jars and salve containers. Also an important maker of a very large variety of bottles and jars for the commercial packaging industry."


« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 12:41:28 AM by John Kada »
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John Kada

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #192 on: August 23, 2012, 12:05:12 AM »

products marketed to American women in the 1930s were not commonly available at the turn of the 20th century.

Ric,

If you're referring to Campana Balm and Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream (if indeed that is what was in the Hazel-Atlas jar), it's not clear that either product was marketed exclusively to women.  Mark previously discussed the Campana Lotion bottle and Diego Vasquez found a mention in the Carey Diary of the Itasca crew having sweet scented lotions and sharing some with Gilbert Islanders during the Earhart search. To me, these two artifacts are as likely to have been left at the Seven Site by the Coast Guard guys as by a castaway.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 01:20:08 AM by John Kada »
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Alan Harris

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #193 on: August 23, 2012, 02:02:01 AM »

Ok--looking at the photo Randy posted showing the marking on the bottom of the jar, I realized that what initially looked to me like Babylonian cuneiform actually was decipherable. Part of the mark looked like an 'A', not a very neat A, but an A, i.e., the letter 'Atlas' begins with. This web site shows the Hazel-Atlas bottle mark to be a curved 'H' with a block-style 'A' between its legs. So, from the portion of the bottle in Randy's picture I think we are looking at the 'A' and the legs of the 'H'.

The view we just got from Randy is a bit surprising in terms of the distorted logo, apparently:
1)  the jar was made on a Monday morning  :)
2)  it is a result of fire damage
3)  it is actually a portion of some other, different logo that we haven't recognized (offered for completeness, I doubt if anyone believes this)

Quote
The web site I referred to by the way says that the mark was first used in 1923; if true, that piece of information provides a dating point for the jar that haven't seen discussed on this thread. The mark apparently remained unchanged for decades, according to another web site whose url now escapes me.

This was first raised in Reply 110 on this same thread.  As far as I know, no one so far has really explained the 1923 date.  The company first started calling itself "Hazel-Atlas" long before that, in 1902.  My personal thoughts:
1)  The source of the 1923 logo dating may be in error.
2)  Or if not in error, it may be a partial story.  Almost all of the web sites talking about HA are for collectors concerned with their dinnerware and table glassware, not with commercial products.  The logo could have first appeared on dinnerware in 1923 but been used earlier on jars?
3)  1923 could be the date of a formal, legal copyright/trademark procedure, but the logo could have been in use before that.

. . . Or add your own.  IMO the 1923 date hanging out in space is not reliable enough to be used as a firm dating point for the artifact.  This may be one thing that will be cleared up in the report from Joe C.

Quote
I am still curious to know how certain Joe et. al. are that the jar is style #1995.

Again, the forthcoming Joe report should cover that.  Presumably, they started from the logo identifying it as HA, and then examined HA catalogs and advertisements to see which HA style(s) visually matched.  I further presume that, had there been significant uncertainty, they would have given a group of possible numbers instead of just the one.  From the HA advertisements I have seen there is no reason to doubt the style identification.
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C.W. Herndon

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Re: Dr. Berry's Freckle Cream
« Reply #194 on: August 23, 2012, 09:38:42 AM »

John Alan, here is an easy to find reference for the Hazel-Atlas Glass Company that states "The Hazel-Atlas mark, usually placed on the back of the product, is an 'A' nested underneath an 'H'. The mark was reportedly first used in 1923, according to trademark office records quoted by Peterson (400 Trademarks on Glass)".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazel-Atlas_Glass_Company  Also the mark is not distorted as shown in this reference.http://glassloversglassdatabase.com//marks/ats00002.html
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« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 09:40:26 AM by C.W. Herndon »
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