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Author Topic: So Where Are Fred's Remains?  (Read 8064 times)

Mark Appel

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2018, 10:22:24 PM »

Is it possible that Fred's "delirium" wasn't actually delirium at all? There has been lots of speculation that Fred had suffered a head injury but it was stated that her navigator "was severely injured" and only alluded to a head injury.  Lots of ways to get hurt in a bad landing. Could it be possible that his agitation, abruptness, and storming out of the cockpit were actually just a hot, tired, thirsty, hungry, hurt and frightened navigator, who recognized the full gravity of the situation,  trying to reason with a pilot who is playing with the radios under false hope of an imminent rescue rather than grabbing what they could and boot scooting out of there while they still could? Could Amelia, in fact,  have been the delirious one?   

Of course, anything is "possible." But is it reasonable? No. It's not reasonable that Fred (in his right mind) did not recognize that their first priority was to communicate with rescuers. From the time they landed, that was certainly the priority. It was--by far--their greatest hope for survival.
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« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 10:26:03 PM by Mark Appel »
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Mark Appel

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #61 on: March 21, 2018, 10:38:58 PM »


In these extreme circumstances, it is far more likely that Fred should be the one on the radio, not Amelia. Why wasn't he?

If Fred had any experience at all with radio it has escaped my notice.  His professional expertise was in navigation.  Your comment comes dangerously close to being a sexist assumption that the man would surely take over in an emergency.



Hey! Whoa! No sexism in thought, intended or implied. The references on this very site are replete with descriptions of Amelia's "disinterest and incompetence" with communications equipment and practices. Yes. I made the inference that given Fred's considerable experience in the air and on the sea that he would at least have some basic competence on the mic. And--importantly--as the navigator, he had the most important information to convey to rescuers. And that information would be more efficiently given first-hand.

Could I be wrong? Sure. But it seems to be reasonable, not sexist.
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Krystal McGinty-Carter

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #62 on: March 23, 2018, 04:43:40 PM »

I'm sure Fred was very concerned with the radios....for a few days. But even in the transmission of Betty's notebook, you can hear references to the depth of the water and that the airplane is slipping. I'm not saying that Fred was sitting around and rolling his eyes while Amelia was on the radios. More that his "delirium" could be attributed to the fact that the high tide was coming in, the airplane was slipping and she was still firmly planted in the pilot seat and refusing the move. His "I need to get out" could have been "YOU need to get out" or "WE need to get out."  I don't think she was incompetent at all. But I think that in the last hours of the Electra, she had to have been growing desperate. As I said, that airplane was the means to secure her future. Everything she had was riding on completing that flight and without the Electra, it was all over. Even if she was rescued. I'm sure she was thinking over and over and over "If we could just get some gas and repairs, I could probably take off right from this island. Howland isn't that far away."  Everyone seems to be placing the irrational or delirious behavior on Fred. I'm just saying...what if Fred was actually being the voice of reason?
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Mark Appel

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2018, 11:22:46 PM »

Of course, no one can predict how one or another will act in a desperate, life-threatening situation.

All we can do is speculate around what seems, given the evidence and facts, reasonable.

Fred was, by far, the most experienced professional of the two. He was older. He was male (therefore inculcated with male expectations) and his job was to KNOW WHERE THEY ARE.

Amelia was not accomplished, nor apparently comfortable with radio communications.

There is NO QUESTION, their best hope for survival was communication with rescuers.

It seems unlikely to me, that Fred would be the one hysterically advocating for egress of the Electra, while Amelia was calmly trying to communicate via radio.
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Jennifer Hubbard

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2018, 11:20:16 AM »

AE was the pilot and owner of the plane. In all the coverage of communications during and after the last flight, I don't recall any messages that were reported to be from FN. (At least voice transmissions; not sure about Morse code.) As far as we know, for better or worse, AE was the one on the radio.

As for what might cause debilitation in either of them, dehydration is also a strong possibility.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2018, 12:38:22 PM »

AE was the pilot and owner of the plane. In all the coverage of communications during and after the last flight, I don't recall any messages that were reported to be from FN.

I believe that the cockpit was set up so that only AE could control the radio.

Don't have time to check whether that memory is fer real.



Oh, wait ...

It may be that the controls for the rotating antenna were on her side of the cockpit ...

Will try to track this down later.
LTM,

           Marty
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2018, 03:35:44 PM »

I believe that the cockpit was set up so that only AE could control the radio.

The controls for the transmitter and receiver were on the "knee panel" at the base of the instrument panel on the copilot side.
The knob for manually rotating the loop was on the ceiling of the cockpit roughly in the middle between pilot and copilot.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2018, 09:01:34 PM »

The controls for the transmitter and receiver were on the "knee panel" at the base of the instrument panel on the copilot side.
The knob for manually rotating the loop was on the ceiling of the cockpit roughly in the middle between pilot and copilot.


Isn't the box to the left of the eyebrow panel part of the DF setup?

LTM,

           Marty
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2018, 07:39:53 AM »

Isn't the box to the left of the eyebrow panel part of the DF setup?

It was, but it was removed before the aircraft left Miami on the second world flight attempt.  See "The Miami Cockpit Photo"

We didn't figure that out until after the Harney Drawings were done.
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2018, 07:56:24 AM »

It was, but it was removed before the aircraft left Miami on the second world flight attempt.  See "The Miami Cockpit Photo"

We didn't figure that out until after the Harney Drawings were done.

OK.

Any idea where the microphone was?  Left, center, right?  AE was the only one who transmitted.  Could Fred have done so if he wished?  Did they both have headsets?

If Fred had the tuning responsibilities, could he have mucked up the receiver settings?

You have the right to remain silent.  There must have been answers to these questions when the flight got lost.  Answering them will not change the search strategy.  It's just idle curiosity.
LTM,

           Marty
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: So Where Are Fred's Remains?
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2018, 08:29:13 AM »

Any idea where the microphone was?  Left, center, right?

Not sure, but it's a small cockpit and the mic cord was fairly long, so I would think the mic would be easily usable from either seat.

  AE was the only one who transmitted.  Could Fred have done so if he wished?

 
Did they both have headsets?

I don't know for sure, but I doubt it.  There was no planned need for Fred to use the radio.

If Fred had the tuning responsibilities, could he have mucked up the receiver settings?

I'm quite sure that Fred did not have tuning responsibilities.  The pilot could easily reach across and use the receiver and transmitter remotes.  Could Fred have fiddled with the settings and mucked them up?  Sure.

You have the right to remain silent.

A right some would say I should more often exercise.
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