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Author Topic: Did the dogs find the spot?  (Read 7421 times)

Matt Revington

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Did the dogs find the spot?
« on: July 08, 2017, 06:50:36 AM »

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/forensic-dogs-amelia-earhart-spot-where-died/

As well as describing the dogs Tom King is quoted as wanting to investigate a story that the bones from 1940 ended up the Tarawa post office.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 08:03:05 AM by Matt Revington »
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Bill Mangus

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 08:33:46 AM »

Nice story.

Was the carin from 2015 found and did the doggies get a chance to visit?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 10:02:58 AM »

Was the carin from 2015 found and did the doggies get a chance to visit?

They found something that they thought might be the "cairn" but I don't think they ever put the dogs on it or investigated it further. 
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2017, 07:27:51 AM »

Ric, Tom, and Matt...Good Sunday morning! I too just finished reading the nice article National Geographic put out about the hits on the seventh site beneath the ren tree. My question and please remember I'm no anthropologist...but my question is how are they able to get a breakdown from soil samples and are able to collect DNA after 80 years? Also, let's just say for example that indeed she died beneath the ren tree and the snow crabs carried some of her remains away. Is it feasible to this day to retrieve such bones with the dogs? Would there be enough DNA left on the bones, or is there something else that the dogs pick up. Really curious and this is truly exciting for Tighar!
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2017, 09:56:36 AM »

...but my question is how are they able to get a breakdown from soil samples and are able to collect DNA after 80 years?

A recent news article, about being able to extract Neanderthal DNA from ancient cave dirt,  tells about exciting advances in being able to study about those ancient peoples even in the absence of human bones. There's no telling what might be discovered in analyzing that matter put in those Ziploc® bags from under the ren tree at the Seven Site!
LTM,

Bruce
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« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 12:10:39 PM by Bruce Thomas »
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Matt Revington

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2017, 02:27:45 PM »

The searching for DNA in the soil is a long shot but if that Neanderthal DNA was identified it is worth it to try this.  However the conditions for preservation of DNA on  Niku are much worse than in dark cool cave.  Heat and UV light are very bad for DNA .  This quote is from a review of forensic DNA recovery,admittedly it is from2004 and techniques have improved greatly since then.

"The results obtained from the analysis of DNA from ancient human bone tissue, horse bones, and mummified soft tissues (from 40 years to 50,000 years old), indicate that all samples with low levels of damage and from which the DNA could be amplified originated from regions where low temperatures have prevailed throughout the burial period of the specimens.29,33"


While it was very cool to hear that all the cadaver dogs selected the same depression near the Ren tree  what does it mean for the Niku hypothesis.  In my opinion it confirms the quality of the work of previous expeditions in identifying the seven site and eliminates any reasonable doubt that the seven site is also the bones site. That is important as many of the most significant artefacts have been found there and tying the bones and artefacts together gives a more complete picture but it doesn't advance efforts to prove it was AE or FN who died there.  Hopefully  DNA can be found that would do this.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 06:57:37 AM by Matt Revington »
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Jim M Sivright

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2017, 05:15:27 PM »




As well as describing the dogs Tom King is quoted as wanting to investigate a story that the bones from 1940 ended up the Tarawa post office.
[/quote]

Can the source of the story be told yet?

Jim
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2017, 09:28:41 PM »

Ric,

Getting back to the finger/turtle bones, if DNA can be extracted from the soil why can't DNA be extracted from the bones we have in storage?  How much would it cost to pursue this research?

Ted Campbell
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 09:49:36 PM by Ted G Campbell »
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Jon Romig

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2017, 04:24:24 PM »

Apologies for taking the easy way out instead of looking in the archives:
Is the site under the ren tree where the dogs alerted the same site as previously identified by TIGHAR?
Is it where the bones were suspected of being found by Gallagher,  or is it the "empty grave"?

The question is potentially interesting (if I have my facts straight) because the site of a reburial of weathered, 3 year old bones is likely to have less DNA than the soil that was beneath a decomposing body.

Jon
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 04:53:40 PM »

I don't know of any "empty grave."  Gallagher found the bones under a Ren tree.  There's a big Ren tree on the site. We have no way of knowing whether it's the same tree that was there in 1940, but I doubt it.  However, the tree that is there know could have grown from seeds of the tree that was there then.  So, yes, the dog alerted on the spot where we have speculated that the body's found.
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Jon Romig

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 05:00:32 PM »

Thanks, Ric.
Is any information related to the National Geographic story still embargoed?
Is/was there a moment when we were/are allowed to fully discuss/disclose findings? Or is TIGHAR prohibited from saying?
Thanks again,
Jon
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 05:04:39 PM »

Is any information related to the National Geographic story still embargoed?
Is/was there a moment when we were/are allowed to fully discuss/disclose findings? Or is TIGHAR prohibited from saying?


We can't say anything about what the dogs found but Nat Geo has publicly said they didn't find any bones.
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Steve Lyle Gunderson

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 07:20:21 PM »


As well as describing the dogs Tom King is quoted as wanting to investigate a story that the bones from 1940 ended up the Tarawa post office.


Has anyone returned from the Tarawa Post Office yet?
[/quote]
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2017, 07:39:02 AM »

Has anyone returned from the Tarawa Post Office yet?


Yes, everybody is back home.  No bones came back with them.  That's about all I know.  Tom King has yet to make his report.
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Randy Conrad

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Re: Did the dogs find the spot?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2017, 05:46:39 AM »

The other day I was sitting here at home and pondering if its feasible after 80 years to extract DNA samples from coral or sea shells that might have been where Amelia or Fred died. We know the dogs made a significant hit on the same spot where the bones were found...but lets just say that blood and fluids covered the ground and shells and coral as well. You would think that with those kind of temperatures on Nikumaurro that blood in itself would have easily baked on anything. And we know from watching crime shows and forensics that its very hard to get rid of blood. So would this be the case?
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