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Author Topic: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?  (Read 312854 times)

Daniel Paul Cotts

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2011, 12:56:21 PM »

Another Brandis sextant on eBay.
It's number 565. No indication of U.S. Navy ownership - so not useful for our purposes.
Real Old Brandis
The other two Brandis sextants currently on eBay have been listed above in this thread.
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Daniel Paul Cotts

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2011, 09:02:33 PM »

Seller reports that Brandis 3320 has NO # 4799 on the arc. 4794 was a mistake.
Bruce, Can you modify the table to remove the (now know as false) discrepancy?
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2011, 09:21:43 PM »

Seller reports that Brandis 3320 has NO # 4799 on the arc. 4794 was a mistake.
Bruce, Can you modify the table to remove the (now know as false) discrepancy?
Table has been updated as you requested.
LTM,

Bruce
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Daniel Paul Cotts

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2011, 01:15:13 PM »

New eBay listing. Brandis #4994, NO #2741
eBay Brandis
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Bruce Thomas

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2011, 01:58:14 PM »

New eBay listing. Brandis #4994, NO #2741
eBay Brandis
Thanks for the info.  The table in Ameliapedia has been updated.
LTM,

Bruce
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Andrew M McKenna

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2011, 11:43:09 PM »

New eBay listing. Brandis #4994, NO #2741
eBay Brandis

I asked the seller if there were any numbers on the box as sometimes that yields a different number set.  Here is their reply:

"After looking again there is a very lightly stamped number above the hinge on the small strip of wood but it's hard to read. The last 2 numbers are 94 so it appears to match the sextant number."

Andrew
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John Ousterhout

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2011, 02:22:24 PM »

http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/navigation/type.cfm?typeid=11
lists several Brandis instruments in Smithsonian "Behring Center".  You may already list them all, but the photos are nice.
According to the Ameliaopedia, Harry Manning loaned FN a US Navy Pioneer Bubble Octant, #12-36, in a letter dated March 20, 1937.  When looking at the Smithsonian pictures of Brandis Aircraft Sextants, they are identified as "Octants" (the difference being that an Octant can only measure up to 90 degree angles, which is all that is needed for aircraft use).  These "Octants" have boxes essential the same as "sextant" boxes.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 02:53:15 PM by John Ousterhout »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2011, 05:53:10 PM »

http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/navigation/type.cfm?typeid=11
lists several Brandis instruments in Smithsonian "Behring Center".  You may already list them all, but the photos are nice.
According to the Ameliaopedia, Harry Manning loaned FN a US Navy Pioneer Bubble Octant, #12-36, in a letter dated March 20, 1937.  When looking at the Smithsonian pictures of Brandis Aircraft Sextants, they are identified as "Octants" (the difference being that an Octant can only measure up to 90 degree angles, which is all that is needed for aircraft use).  These "Octants" have boxes essential the same as "sextant" boxes.

That's a great explanation of why "octant" and "sextant" seem to be synonymous in some of the literature.

The three numbers that match the pattern we're following are:

One is on our list.  The other two have either not been examined or else don't have Naval Observatory numbers.

3193 (1068 in grease or etched?)
5296 / N.O. 2977
5675 / ?

We don't need maker's numbers; we need pairs of numbers.

Of course, what would really be definitive--either including or excluding the numbers on the box found on Niku--would be a catalogue from the N.O. containing the entire list.

If it still exists ...
LTM,

           Marty
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John Ousterhout

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2011, 09:12:43 PM »

The "Ludoph Sextant in Pensacola Box 3547/173"  appears to be an Octant (http://tighar.org/wiki/File:Moffettsext.jpg)
This raises my suspicions even more that the "Octant" (I initially said "sextant", oops)  FN borrowed from Manning would have been in a "sextant" box.
Moreover, we need to be looking for "Octant" numbers as much as "Sextant" numbers.
Martin: I'll gladly move this if it is inappropriate in this thread.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 07:05:01 AM by John Ousterhout »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2011, 05:32:47 AM »

The "Ludoph Sextant in Pensacola Box 3547/173"  appears to be an Octant (http://tighar.org/wiki/File:Moffettsext.jpg)

This raises my suspicions even more that the "Sextant" FN borrowed from Manning would have been in a "sextant" box.

I don't understand the nature of your suspicions.

Are you saying that you are inclined to believe that the instrument, however named, would have been in a box that the British would call a "sextant" box?

Or are you saying that the British identification of the box as a "sextant" box rules it out of consideration as part of the world flight?

Quote
Moreover, we need to be looking for "Octant" numbers as much as "Sextant" numbers.

OK by me.  If it's an instrument with a 4-digit serial number and a 4-digit Naval Observatory number, that's the kind of thing that we're seeking in order to understand the pair of 4-digit numbers recorded by the British on the "sextant" box found on Niku.

Quote
Martin: I'll gladly move this if it is inappropriate in this thread.

That's OK.  It's part of searching to clarify what is being sought.   ;)
LTM,

           Marty
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John Ousterhout

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2011, 07:53:17 AM »

"...the instrument, however named, would have been in a box that the British would call a "sextant" box?"
Martin - that's a better way to put it, thanks.  There might be no need for FN to have carried a second instrument to explain how a 1930's era Sextant box arrived on Gardner.  It might have held FN's borrowed Octant.
Note-Gary LaPook's web page claims that FN's Octant/Sextant would have looked like the A7 he shows.  I hope he will provide his documentation to clear up which form it followed.  If it was the "A7" form, then the box would NOT likely be confused with a sextant box.
Cheers,
JohnO
 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 04:54:19 PM by John Ousterhout »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2011, 06:54:36 PM »

There might be no need for FN to have carried a second instrument to explain how a 1930's era Sextant box arrived on Gardner.  It might have held FN's borrowed Octant.

OK.

An answerable question is: Would the octant that he borrowed from Manning fit into a Brandis-style sextant case?

Although I think this is answerable, I'm not in a position to answer it myself.   :P
LTM,

           Marty
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John Ousterhout

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2011, 08:52:04 PM »

"An answerable question is: Would the octant that he borrowed from Manning fit into a Brandis-style sextant case?"
If the instrument was a Pioneer model 206, aka Navy Mk.1, Model 4, which were still made by Brandis & Sons after acquisition by Pioneer.  If the instrument was a Pioneer model 342, aka Navy Mk. 3, Model 1, then is would look like Gary's A7.  The box might still look like it would fit a sextant, or might not.  I've found example photos of both style boxes fitting A7-style octants, so it's ambiguous until we know more details.

Cheers,
JohnO
 
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Daniel Paul Cotts

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2012, 12:21:25 AM »

Yet another Brandis on eBay. Brandis #3893 and NO #4569 with Certificate of Inspection date of 3/14/41. Box and instrument NO numbers match. Seller has not verified maker's number on instrument. Number stamped on box matches certificate. Sextant

Update Feb 3: Seller verified makers serial number on instrument is 3893.

Here's a Pioneer Octant type 342
Octant
There's a ruler in one of the photos that may help to determine the dimensions of the box.     Low starting price for anyone interested.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 12:39:26 PM by Daniel Paul Cotts »
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Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Re: Can you add to the list of sextant numbers?
« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2012, 06:25:37 AM »

Yet another Brandis on eBay. Brandis #3893 and NO #4569 with Certificate of Inspection date of 3/14/41. Box and instrument NO numbers match. Seller has not verified maker's number on instrument. Number stamped on box matches certificate. Sextant

Thanks, Daniel.

An interesting variant.  Marked as a "survey" instrument in 1941, sold as surplus in 1946.

Different location of maker's number compared to other photos of boxes.

N.O. number doesn't seem to be die-stamped onto the box.
LTM,

           Marty
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