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Author Topic: Status of "the stick"?  (Read 45998 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2016, 09:23:37 AM »

Would you annotate one of the pictures with the supposed direction of flight?

See below. The circles represent one and two miles centered on the pond.
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Dale O. Beethe

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2016, 01:02:56 PM »

If it crashed in the water, I find it difficult to believe there wouldn't be a reasonable amount of debris left, even if it was partially salvaged.  The problem would obviously be locating any of that debris in six feet of silt (under ten feet of water).  Especially without knowing exactly where to look.  Does the "salvage specialist's" farmstead still exist fairly intact?  If so, has anyone checked there to see if any of the pieces of White Bird might still exist as "repairs"  to something else?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2016, 01:08:13 PM »

Does the "salvage specialist's" farmstead still exist fairly intact?  If so, has anyone checked there to see if any of the pieces of White Bird might still exist as "repairs"  to something else?

Doyle's house is gone. His adopted son Patsy Judge reportedly had a few pieces of the plane but his cabin burned after his death.  We excavated the site and found some melted lumps of metal but nothing identifiable.
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Dale O. Beethe

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2016, 01:45:18 PM »

Sounds like you've been pretty thorough (as usual) looking for any and all routes to an answer.  Nothing's ever easy, is it?!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2016, 01:51:47 PM by Dale O. Beethe »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2016, 03:44:21 PM »

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Dale O. Beethe

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2016, 04:44:47 PM »

I'll bet!  Unfortunately, I have no skills that would be useful in this search, other that being something of a cheerleader.
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2016, 09:51:36 AM »

I realize that more than 20 years has passed, but I'm suggesting that TIGHAR initiate steps to see where the artifact is. Hopefully it still exists.

Before we devote any effort to new technology or whatever, I think it would be a good idea to make the best possible use of what we already have.

Think about it for a moment.  Let's say we spent the time, effort, and money to track down the artifact, and let's say we were somehow successful in convincing the provincial authorities to release it to us for research (which they were not willing to do 20 years ago).  And let's say that after spending the time, effort, and money on forensic testing we were able to determine that there is something about the artifact that is consistent with it being from a 1927 French airplane, what would we do then?  We would look for technology that would help us search for the rest of the airplane.

Ummmm, I have thought about it. Twenty years have past. Might be new people with a new attitude in charge up there. As I see it, right now the Plane in the Pond theory is a roll of the dice. TIGHAR may have found a piece of the White Bird. If we are allowed to do some testing and it turns out positive, that will greatly strengthen TIGHAR's case for raising more money for another search. If the testing turns out negative or ambiguous, we really haven't lost anything, either. We might well have the proverbial bird in the hand.

Or so it seems to me.

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2016, 10:04:46 AM »

If we are allowed to do some testing and it turns out positive, that will greatly strengthen TIGHAR's case for raising more money for another search.

Positive for what?  What would you test?  We already know that the paint is the right color and the right chemical composition but it's generic paint.  Nothing unique to the White Bird.

If the testing turns out negative or ambiguous, we really haven't lost anything, either.

Just months of time.  I've learned over the years that deciding what to spend time on is the biggest factor in any investigation.  It's all about asking the right questions.
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Captain Andy

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2016, 06:14:13 PM »

Do you have any photos of the witnesses who saw airplane wreckage at gull pond
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2016, 07:24:44 PM »

Do you have any photos of the witnesses who saw airplane wreckage at gull pond

Yes. Some. Why?
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Captain Andy

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2016, 07:42:11 PM »

I want to see them
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2016, 07:34:52 AM »

This photo is Patrick "Patsy" Judge, adopted son of James Joseph  "Jim Joe" Doyle whom we suspect found the wreck and moved salvageable pieces of the plane to the island in the the Gull Pond.
In 1948, Patsy Judge wrote a letter to a local businessman C. Noonan (no relation to Fred Noonan) about airplane wreckage he had seen.  Noonan passed the information to the Newfoundland Civil Aviation Division which responded with the attached letter.
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Captain Andy

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2016, 09:41:30 AM »

Got any others
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Monty Fowler

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2016, 01:46:00 PM »

We already know that the paint is the right color and the right chemical composition but it's generic paint.  Nothing unique to the White Bird.


No arguments about the color, you can make a case that that might have come from the White Bird, but I have not seen anything on the chemical composition. Was any kind of country-of-origin analysis done, or whether the paint was sprayed on vs. brushed on, etc.?

LTM,
Monty Fowler, TIGHAR No. 2189 E
Ex-TIGHAR member No. 2189 E C R SP, 1998-2016
 
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Status of "the stick"?
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2016, 04:19:12 PM »

Got any others

This is Patrick McGrath when we interviewed him in 1992.  He was 69 at that time. He claimed to have seen airplane wreckage on the island in Gull Pond in 1940.  He was also with Hubert McGrath and Father McCarthy when they recovered an artifact on or near the island in 1971. 
I don't have photos of any of the other people who claimed to have seen pieces of "the plane in the pond."
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