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Author Topic: 2-2-V-1 - patch?  (Read 1124747 times)

Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #135 on: July 02, 2014, 05:55:13 AM »

Just realized (duh).  News about this new research is breaking on the 77th anniversary of the disappearance.  That may be why we're getting so much coverage.  People are going to assume we planned it this way but you guys know I'm not that clever.
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Tim Collins

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #136 on: July 02, 2014, 07:18:13 AM »

Re window in Miami photo - Boy that plane seems like it was a patchwork of skin panels.  What's with the apparently recessed panel just above AE's head?
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Tim Collins

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #137 on: July 02, 2014, 07:20:29 AM »

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JNev

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #138 on: July 02, 2014, 08:51:40 AM »

Just realized (duh).  News about this new research is breaking on the 77th anniversary of the disappearance.  That may be why we're getting so much coverage.  People are going to assume we planned it this way but you guys know I'm not that clever.

Unusual for you to be that sleepy, Ric... I guess we can forgive you!  It must be organic by now, you didn't even have to consciously plan it...

77 years... Don't worry Amelia, a bunch of us are still looking for you, even if a bunch of us (not here  ;)) are wrong about 'where'...

Well, she's past being hungry, but who wants to be forgotten?
- Jeff Neville

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Greg Daspit

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #139 on: July 02, 2014, 09:15:11 AM »

Does this look normal or could it be possible damage from the hard landing?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #140 on: July 02, 2014, 09:15:29 AM »

Re window in Miami photo - Boy that plane seems like it was a patchwork of skin panels.  What's with the apparently recessed panel just above AE's head?

Yeah, I noticed that.  It's non-standard (other Electras don't have it) but it seems to have been there from the start.  No idea why.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #141 on: July 02, 2014, 09:18:51 AM »

Does this look normal or could it be possible damage from the hard landing?

Damn you're good!  Let's see if we can find that spot in pre-Miami photos.
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Dan Swift

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #142 on: July 02, 2014, 09:33:41 AM »

Extra attention probably due to the current "world flight" taking place in addition to the anniversary.   As most of you have, I have noticed it only resembles the original flight.  Not the number of stops...and in different places...most likely due to lack of relations and/or permissions, safety, etc. for some locations.  But, it has brought some extra attention and that is a good thing.
These new pics and info regarding this artifact is getting exciting!!   
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #143 on: July 02, 2014, 09:37:56 AM »

These new pics and info regarding this artifact is getting exciting!!

Yes, but let's remember how often we've been disappointed.  The light at the end of the tunnel is usually an oncoming train.
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Paul March

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #144 on: July 02, 2014, 09:38:30 AM »

Does this look normal or could it be possible damage from the hard landing?
Well done Greg! That may assist in an explanation of why the patch was made. Which at the end of the day proves nothing of 2-2-V-1, however is very interesting nonetheless. Although the media is FULL of inaccuracies, may the interest spark membership/support to further the cause. Right or wrong, media coverage is vital to interest.
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Tim Collins

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #145 on: July 02, 2014, 09:42:05 AM »

Does this look normal or could it be possible damage from the hard landing?

Could that also be just another recessed panel?
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #146 on: July 02, 2014, 09:45:26 AM »

Could that also be just another recessed panel?

No.  That's the skin juncture at Sta. 293 5/8.
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Dave Peterson

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #147 on: July 02, 2014, 10:23:52 AM »

So many pictures - so many thoughts - not enough time!

Something that sticks out to me: the two rivets above the upper right corner of the window in the Miami detail. Not sure of the correct terminology, but the installer of the window added a vertical 'stiffener' at station (approx) 294-294.5? Note the small strip of metal left rearward of station 293 5/8. Not represented accurately in the Harney drawing. I do realize this was based on educated guesses and this picture wasn't available. Just noting in the interests of validating/invalidating the patch as an origin of 2-2-V-1.

The Pensacola reconstruction shows all sorts of wonderful details - especially around windows and partial circumferential stiffeners. Are the tapers at the ends of the partials a cap? A separate piece riveted onto the actual stiffener? Note the rivets attaching the 'cap' at the far right of the Pensacola picture. If the original partial at station 307 has a cap, does removing it result in a natural upper edge to the added lav window? How does this play out with the framing of the new window? Was the new window framed like an original window, with a rounded rectangular channel? Or was it just straight channel? That is, given the vertical channel that seemed to be added at station 294(ish), would there be a horizontal channel at the top edge of the new window? How is this actually constructed to hold a window. I know, these are not necessarily known details. But how does this play into the inclusion/exclusion of 2-2-V-1?

Finally, while the Purdue picture(s) don't give good indication of rivets, it does show pretty well the extent of the patch. You can count rivets in the Miami detail and see exactly where the upper edge of the new window is. From the Purdue picture this seems to coincide precisely with the upper edge of the patch. Something that I seem to notice, though it could just be illusions from the various angles involved, but is the rectangular patch out of line with the conical shape of the plane? That is, is the rear edge going farther up the plane than the front edge? The 'tapper' isn't matched? Does that have any bearing on including/excluding 2-2-V-1? Also, I wish Ric could have turned 2-2-V-1 180 degrees in the pictures he took at the New England air museum. I know that double row of rivets is trying to be matched to the bottom of the window, but it doesn't - at all. Would the upper edge of the patch have been double riveted to the upper skin of the aircraft? Does the wonky rectangle against the tapered fuselage and a horizontal stringer-cum-window-frame piece explain the odd pitch of the 2-2-V-1 double rivets?

Just things noticed that I thought I'd share.
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Dave Peterson

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #148 on: July 02, 2014, 10:31:41 AM »

Oh, one more thought that came to mind:

Note the partial stringers at the front and rear edges of removed windows in the Pensacola reconstruction. They divide the window opening into four rows - five rows of riveting. If you divide the new window opening by four, do you get the rivet spacing of 2-2-V-1?
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Jay Burkett

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Re: 2-2-V-1 - patch?
« Reply #149 on: July 02, 2014, 11:05:47 AM »

Dave,

Those are the stub intercostals I was refereing to earlier.  I wonder if the spacing between those is any where near waht is found on the patch?

I really don't think Lockheed installed that window.  The visible window "frame" is well done, but, you can tell that it is a "one off" hand produced part.  You can see that on the blow-up of the forward edge.  I guess the question is there enough rivet holes remaining on the patch so that we can correlate them to any of those visible in these photos.
Jay Burkett, N4RBY
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