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Author Topic: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?  (Read 24137 times)

JNev

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In the interest of understanding the potential qualities of long-lost possible sub-sea artifacts, origins and presence not proven but possible, this string is begun for the purpose of preserving and furthering the most interesting study of a most durable brand of toilet paper.

Read at your own risk, amusement or for serious study, at your pleasure.  I'm dead serious...
- Jeff Neville

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JNev

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2013, 07:24:43 AM »

Quoted from 'Legal Defense Fund' string - by Rob Seasock -

"...75 years old toilet paper on the sea bottom."


 ....mmm....that have to be some pretty tough toilet paper... no way it could...but wait!

 ;D Lets turn the other cheek so to speak.

"My Experience With Her Majesty's Ministry Of Supply Toilet Paper" (I have a feeling that many of our Englander cousins across the pond can relate to this story) it goes something like this.

No Sh#t there I was, a young American airman at RAF Sculthorpe for exercise Flintlock 82, in this WWII hangar.  Ah, in the mens room specifically, ya know sittin down in a stall sending a message to higher headquarters.  Well paperwork time came and I reached over for the TP, it was like thin wax paper, the horror ( :o thinks how's this gonna work ???) and started laughing, sort of.  Stenciled on each and every 1 ply square was "HM Government Property".  To this day I wished I'd have liberated that roll as a souvenir.  End of story.

Turns out this stuff was tough, used from the 1930's to 1989, especially during the UK's time of postwar Austerity, in public facilities, government offices, schools and wasn't very popular with the Brits either. Many users had their own stenciled rolls. Being the diligent Tigharian researcher I've provided some links: 

IZAL Toilet Paper
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/household-products/izal-toilet-paper/422529/
Click on the 18 reviews some of which are quite humorous such as:
"Best paper in the world provided you know how to use it. Rather than dabbing and mopping with it as you would with conventional "Nancy boy" soft paper you need to do a bit of origami and form it into a small shovel and scoop away at your bum until it is sparkly clean and because of the medicated magic of Izal totally free of all known germs."
 :D Gotta love the English way with words "bit of origami"  "form it into a small shovel"


Lavatory Paper History & Stencils
http://www.ephemera-society.org.uk/articles/cloacopapyrology.html
My favorite TP square stencil ""Edinburgh Cleansing Department", posh, very posh.
WWII propaganda stencil-Hitler "Now I'm brownshirt all over".


TP Sheets inscribed by manufacturers or institutions.
http://bookhistory.blogspot.com/2008/02/collectanea-cloacopapyrologica-1.html


Manufactures List & Suppliers
http://bookhistory.blogspot.com/2005/12/cloacopapyrology.html
;D The manufactures list might be a crucial resource when  we find a screen capture of the toilet paper rolls in the 2010 ROV video.


 ;) Just think folks, we could have a whole CORAL ENCRUSTED DEBRIS FIELD OF TOILET PAPER down there!  :o  There could be rolls stenciled Gallagher, SS Norwich City (probably all burnt in the fire), PISS, NZ Survey.

Martin this is going to take some serious research, we might need a new thread or at the very least transfer this to Artifact Analysis: FAQ Fecal Material  & Coprolite.

LETS ROLL!
Rob
- Jeff Neville

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JNev

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 07:26:07 AM »

Quoted from 'Legal Defense Fund' - by Chris Johnson -

You can still get it! IZAL

Me thinks for the purpose of scientific research that i'll do the following.

  • Purchase 1 pack IZAL and 1 pack normal.
  • Leave both in wrappers
  • Imerse in tepid bath water for 12 hours and see what happens

Sure the wife won't mind in tthe least  ;D

Do not read This!if you are offended by toilet humor  :D

Good old ebay
- Jeff Neville

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JNev

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 07:27:52 AM »

Quoted from 'Legal Defense Fund' - by Brano Lacika -

"My Experience With Her Majesty's Ministry Of Supply Toilet Paper" (I have a feeling that many of our Englander cousins across the pond can relate to this story) it goes something like this.

No Sh#t there I was, a young American airman at RAF Sculthorpe for exercise Flintlock 82, in this WWII hangar.  Ah, in the mens room specifically, ya know sittin down in a stall sending a message to higher headquarters.  Well paperwork time came and I reached over for the TP, it was like thin wax paper, the horror ( :o thinks how's this gonna work ???) and started laughing, sort of.  Stenciled on each and every 1 ply square was "HM Government Property".  To this day I wished I'd have liberated that roll as a souvenir.  End of story.


With all respect to His Majesty´s property... this would still be not good enough to survive 75 years submerged at sea. If you really want to reach that characteristics, I would suggest KEVLAR or NYLON fabric, or better the HDPE foil...   8)
- Jeff Neville

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JNev

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 07:29:33 AM »

You can take the man from England but you'll never remove that little part thats English from the man   ;D

We used to use it a tracing paper at school.

I stand amazed at the tenacity of the man from England - some things are larger than life, for sure!

I also stand amazed at the resourcefulness of H.M.'s subjects in finding so many fine uses for ordinary things - not that Izal seems to be 'ordinary' in any sense of the word.
- Jeff Neville

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JNev

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 07:39:24 AM »

You can take the man from England but you'll never remove that little part thats English from the man   ;D

We used to use it a tracing paper at school.

I stand amazed at the tenacity of the man from England - some things are larger than life, for sure!

I also stand amazed at the resourcefulness of H.M.'s subjects in finding so many fine uses for ordinary things - not that Izal seems to be 'ordinary' in any sense of the word.

That Jeff is a back handed complement to your goodself and your ancestry  :P

I stand further amazed at English depth of perception...  ;)

Compliment accepted!
- Jeff Neville

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Brano Lacika

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 07:59:12 AM »

In the interest of understanding the potential qualities of long-lost possible sub-sea artifacts, origins and presence not proven but possible, this string is begun for the purpose of preserving and furthering the most interesting study of a most durable brand of toilet paper.

Read at your own risk, amusement or for serious study, at your pleasure.  I'm dead serious...

 ;D... Toilet paper survability research sounds like a lot of fun science... But now seriously: Some time ago I came across some study carried out for environmental reasons - the resistability of different materials - glass, metal, plastics, biodegradables etc. disposed at sea. By that time I was interested as we had many discussions with my friends what can we throw out from the boat and what can we not...  There was also something done for forensic reasons regarding the human remains. I can´t find it now..  ???, but keep trying.
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Brano Lacika

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 08:15:18 AM »

It came in either rolls like 'normal' toilet tissue but was packaged in paper, not plastic or cardboard boxes held in a dispenser.

The rolled version didn't seem to be tightly packaged if memory serves me right.

I think there was some idea that the paper could help with haemeroids  :o

We had very similar product in old good czechoslovakia... Almost useless for it´s primary purpose, but perfect for making small aeroplane models to be thrown out from the school toilet window...  ;D
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Greg Daspit

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2013, 08:22:54 AM »

It usualy came in cardbord boxes so I doubt that the packaging would survive 75 days let alone 75 days. years.
Greese proof paper used for cooking was very similar in texture, wonder what happens to it under water?

The box may disintegrate, but would the outer packaging of the roll itself?

Was it celophane, wax paper or similar?  How survivable might an intact, unopened single roll be?  How compressible might it be in say, 300 meters of water?

Sounds like it was a fairly dense film and if tightly rolled, might not be terribly compressible - especially if the outer jacket survived but leaked allowing pressures to equalize and thereby keep the roll intact.

Most interesting, sincerely and with a dash of good humor.

World War II German U-boats generally had collapse depths in the range of 200 to 280 metres "300 metres (1,000 feet), the hull is supporting thirty atmospheres (30 bar, 441 psi, 3,000 kPa) of water pressure"
Assume a 6 inch by 6 inch roll = 36 square inches. 36 x 441lbs per inch = 15,876 pounds on the roll! 
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Chuck Lynch

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2013, 10:57:36 AM »

With all due respects to the Titanic researchers, I found it amazing that bones remain from shipwrecks dating hundreds of years before the Great Ship went down. Maybe some have been seen, but to protect the dignity of the victims, they have not been made public. Yes, many pair of shoes and boots lie side by side, but I find it amazing that absolutely no recognizeable remains have been spotted.

Bodies on the floor of the Great Lakes are very well preserved, where there is no oxygen. And I'm sure there's very little O2 at 12,500 feet below the North Atlantic.
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R F Wade

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2013, 12:03:06 PM »

Just curious, so I did a little browsing ( and yes, I'm fully aware that I shouldn't trust the WorldWideWeb for much) but:   Niku - ~90 deg  vs.  HMS Titanic resting place ~ -1 deg
Wouldn't the difference in the type of water (salinity, 02 levels, etc.) and ambient water temperature have a very opposite effect on any type of remains, organic or otherwise, and their disintegration or preservation? I only mention this because I'm not sure the state of any remains and their processing (for lack of a better word) at the Titanic gravesite could be compared comfortably to those possibly at our Niku.          (covers head ready for pummelling)
/grin
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Brano Lacika

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2013, 12:11:55 PM »

Just curious, so I did a little browsing ( and yes, I'm fully aware that I shouldn't trust the WorldWideWeb for much) but:   Niku - ~90 deg  vs.  HMS Titanic resting place ~ -1 deg
Wouldn't the difference in the type of water (salinity, 02 levels, etc.) and ambient water temperature have a very opposite effect on any type of remains, organic or otherwise, and their disintegration or preservation? I only mention this because I'm not sure the state of any remains and their processing (for lack of a better word) at the Titanic gravesite could be compared comfortably to those possibly at our Niku.          (covers head ready for pummelling)
/grin

Pummelling? Why? I would say that you have made a good point. Just to add on the top of salinity and O2 content - also the differences, in depth, pressure, and most of all in the level of microorganic life...
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Lauren Palmer

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 12:27:05 PM »

Yes, micro-organic life has a lot to play on the Titanic Site, just look at the rusticules.  The Great Lakes, like the Baltic and Black Seas are more conducive to human remains remaining.
"Macro-organic" as well - we've found more large life at the bottom of the sea than we've previously thought possible.  There were lots of large-worm tracks found around the Titanic sight, I believe ...
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Brano Lacika

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2013, 12:43:47 PM »

However, there is one important thing that differenciate the Niku evironment from the Titanic lattitudes - the coral. This makes the place much more dynamic with much faster of all processes under way...
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JNev

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Re: His Majesty's Izal TP - can toilet paper survive 75 years at sea?
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2013, 10:56:45 AM »

Here's a tidbit from National Geographic on organic material found preserved due to embedment in sand on the ocean floor - a gold-guilded deer antler sword handle -

To quote -

Quote
The unusual gilded handle contains both organic material—deer antler—and metal. The antler was preserved during the handle's nearly 300-year stay on the bottom of the ocean because it was safely buried in sand and silt in an oxygen-free environment where it didn't deteriorate.

Obviously circumstances exist where bone or bone-like material may last for a very long time in the sea - but it seems to happen where it happens, and is not a given for all places... or circumstances.

If you 'leaf' through the site at that link you can also see other examples - some random animal bones that were found and concretions of coral / coral-like stuff on some objects, including sword handle.  Interesting - and this was off the east coast of the U.S. - Beaufort, N.C.
- Jeff Neville

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« Last Edit: July 31, 2013, 11:05:08 AM by Jeff Neville »
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