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Author Topic: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund  (Read 475671 times)

Ric Gillespie

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TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« on: June 16, 2013, 01:28:36 PM »

It seems beyond belief that, at a time when a conclusive answer to the Earhart riddle appears increasingly within reach, we must spend time and money defending ourselves from a groundless attack by someone who can afford to sue those who don't agree with his opinions.  Although utterly without merit, Mr. Mellon’s suit must still be fought, and fighting lawsuits – even groundless ones – is expensive. We are therefore establishing a TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund to solicit contributions to help us meet the legal fees necessary to answer Mr. Mellon’s suit.  There is now a simple “click here” feature on the TIGHAR website homepage to accept donations earmarked for the fund.

We tried to avoid this.  As soon as we became aware of the complaint, TIGHAR’s legal team reached out to Mr. Mellon’s attorneys offering to get together to clear up factual errors or misunderstandings and arrange an amicable termination of the suit.  I must tell you now that those overtures were rebuffed.  Mr. Mellon appears to be intent upon continuing his suit.  This is not a fight we sought, but with your help, it is a fight we’ll win. We’ll never be able to match the financial horsepower of our adversary but, with your support, we can bring a more valuable resource to bear – the truth.

Because you, the members of this Forum, have spent time and effort conducting important research and, in many cases, have joined TIGHAR and donated your hard earned money, it is only fair that you be given the opportunity to comment on this threat to all of our hard work.  I am, therefore, opening this topic to comment and discussion about the Mellon lawsuit.  I will not personally participate in this thread except to monitor postings closely to enforce the usual Forum Rules

In particular:
“Avoid ad hominem remarks: insults, stereotyping, sarcasm, or ridicule.  If you have nothing objective to say, don't say it.  Please pass over the character defects of other posters in silence.  Deal with the substance of an opponent's position, not with the moral shortcomings, character defects, or motives of the other person.  "Even a blind pig finds the occasional acorn."  What matters is the objective content of a claim being made, not the claimant's qualities of character.”

Mr. Mellon has chosen to remain active on this Forum.  Feel free to ask him questions but, of course, it his prerogative whether to answer.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 02:04:32 PM by Ric Gillespie »
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Michael Calvin Powell

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2013, 03:42:47 PM »

I have been involved in a lot of litigation between people who have strong opinions (it is what I do for a living) and one of the things I have observed is that no one, even those who win, are ever happy to have gone through the experience.  The solution, of course, is to talk before too much is invested in the confrontation.  If Mr. Mellon continues to refuse the opportunity to talk then it doesn't speak well of him and, more importantly, puts him in a position where he may have much to regret some day.
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Ted G Campbell

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2013, 06:56:51 PM »

Ric,

Post the actual complaint so we can see the arguments and possibliy offer suggestions.
Ted Campbell
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Tim Mellon

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2013, 07:51:15 PM »

I have been involved in a lot of litigation between people who have strong opinions (it is what I do for a living) and one of the things I have observed is that no one, even those who win, are ever happy to have gone through the experience.  The solution, of course, is to talk before too much is invested in the confrontation.  If Mr. Mellon continues to refuse the opportunity to talk then it doesn't speak well of him and, more importantly, puts him in a position where he may have much to regret some day.

Mr. Powell, would you trust an offer from the attorney that represents Bodybuilding.com (Bill Carter)?

Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 07:54:15 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Charlie Chisholm

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2013, 10:34:53 PM »

Mr. Mellon -

Are you able to discuss anything about the subjects in the lawsuit?

Like can you answer questions from forum members?

Or are you required to remain tight-lipped because there is a court case pending?

- Charlie
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Mark Appel

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2013, 10:56:01 PM »

It was my pleasure to make a donation tonight to the TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund. It is indeed sad and quite pathetic that precious time, resources, and both physical and emotional energy must be diverted to defend against the absurd. It is an unfortunate artifact of our otherwise superior legal system that those of sufficient resources, inclinations, and or pathologies can wage such actions with virtual impunity.

No question though. The only road to take is the high road...

"Credibility is Everything"
 
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Tim Mellon

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2013, 12:24:21 AM »

Mr. Mellon -

Are you able to discuss anything about the subjects in the lawsuit?

Like can you answer questions from forum members?

Or are you required to remain tight-lipped because there is a court case pending?

- Charlie

Of course not, Mr. Chisholm. The Complaint speaks for itself.

Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
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richie conroy

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2013, 04:43:01 AM »

Hi Tim

As you know, I too believe that there is stuff in the 2010 video apart from wire and rope that is not natural, Myself and another person off the forum took a lot of flak for what we claimed to see in the video, However if everyone believed us Tighar included the headlines 2 years ago would have read some thing like" Amelia Earhart's plane found after 75 years" the money that would have come in from interviews etc would pay to go back many times more.

The thing is only a few, us included believe there is man made objects in the video, So for Ric to come out and say we have found the Electra based on the 2010 would be suicide for Tighar an anyone connected to it.

As of now thanks to yours and others donations in 2012 Tighar. Found the best evidence to date that Amelia Earhart did in fact land on Niku, And in reality depending on how you look at it, out ov the 2010 video and 2012 sonar image. The sonar image is our best evidence yet.

So my question is. Would you not consider putting this lawsuit on hold until after the 2014 expedition, Because the only way to prove the electra is indeed were the wire rope is, Is to go back and look.

This way if the 2010 video does fall in area Electra is, there is your evidence to back up your claim, If the electra is found else were then that proves you were wrong an you will have to take it on the chin, If the Electra is not there at all then no one wins

Just my 2 pence worth as I believe there is always a solution

Thanks Richie
We are an echo of the past


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Randy Conrad

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2013, 08:29:55 AM »

Hey Tim....

  I don't know you personally, and at the same time I can understand your frustrations. Put yourself in Ric's shoes for one moment. Here is a man who has given over twenty years of time and research to look for this plane (Electra). I don't think he is the type of man, who literally would take people's money if it wasn't going to where it was supposed to go. Yes, it takes funds and monies to do this kind of research and expedition. As most of the Tighar members, we are thankful for your support and contribution to this cause. But, my friend as we speak....you're case against Ric and Tighar is not touchable. I don't know if this will make things any easier...but as I see it and with many others...no court in the land is gonna touch this case...simply for the fact that the video you deemed was evidence of a plane and remains is not there. Anyway, I agree with Richie...our strongest evidence yet is the anomaly sonar image that was shown. I would suggest waiting until 2014...and like he said if your video proof does conclude that you were right then you have your case...but if you're wrong then it can really backfire on you. I, like alot of others feel that you should wait...We're all hoping and praying that this will be the last time we have to go to Niku...I feel that we are that close to solving one of the biggest mysteries of the 21st century. Wouldn't you like to be a part of that celebration??? Anyway, please give Ric and company a chance to solve the sonar image and underwater imagery 100% before you make any hastey judgements. Thanks!!!!
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Charlie Chisholm

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2013, 09:04:04 AM »

Mr. Mellon -

Are you able to discuss anything about the subjects in the lawsuit?

Like can you answer questions from forum members?

Or are you required to remain tight-lipped because there is a court case pending?

- Charlie

Of course not, Mr. Chisholm. The Complaint speaks for itself.

Thank you for taking the time to try to answer my questions.

And excuse me for being dense, but "of course not" what?

"Are you able to discuss anything about the subjects in the lawsuit?"

Of course not.

"Can you answer questions from forum members?"

Of course not.

OR

"Are you required to remain tight-lipped because there is a court case pending?"

Of course not.

Would appreciate a clarification if you have the time.
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Dan Swift

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2013, 10:36:57 AM »

Of course the lawyers are going to be the only winners in this.  I am shocked any lawyer in his right mind would take this case.  But then again, this is why there is such a negative opinion of them in general.  And I will be shocked if a judge doesn't throw it out and allows it to go to court and eat up our tax dollars unnecessarily.  But, then again, I have been shocked and disappointed in these things before. 
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James G. Stoveken

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 10:48:13 AM »

At first I wasn't able to decipher Tim's reply either Charlie.  But after thinking about it for a while, if you take it in it's entirety... "Of course not, Mr. Chisolm.  The complaint speaks for itself."... the reply makes sense for your first two questions but not the third.  I think. 
Jim Stoveken
 
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Dan Swift

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2013, 01:17:54 PM »

Richie,
Nice thought.  Problem is, the lawsuit is not whether or not the Electra is there, but claiming that there was proof it was there and further claiming that Tighar withheld the proof for the sole purpose of raising money for the next expedition.  Now understand how crazy that is!  I too see things that are shaped similar, could be, there's a chance of, but NONE are proof until one item that can be proven belonged to NR16020.  And NOTHING is close to that yet. 
TIGHAR Member #4154
 
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Joshua Doremire

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2013, 04:15:56 PM »

From the AP article on the lawsuit: “As a layman, it is hard to see, unless you know what you're looking at it," Stubson said of the footage, which he said he couldn't share. "Much of it relates to the landing gear and parts that are unique to the landing gear”

Tim,
The video is shared on this website and has been on YouTube for a while, so the footage is something available to look at.   Your lawyer said “As a layman, it is hard to see, unless you know what you're looking at” and then he says what some of it is supposed to be. So now that we know what we are looking at, “the landing gear”, it should be easier to see. (Images and drawings of the landing gear are in the latest TIGHAR Tracks). You have also posted several screen captures in different threads from the video.
Please indicate the reply# and thread where you posted an image of these parts that are unique to the landing gear.  Or reference the time it shows up in the available video, if not already posted as an image frame.
Thank you,

This is the exact problem Tim has to convince a jury the aircraft was found in the 2010 video. Public opinion still holds this as a theory. Evidence being a clear underwater picture of the aircraft that can be 100% identified by 12 people unable to get out of jury duty, a specific part that would only fit the aircraft, serial numbers from the aircraft, or related parts that can be proven to have been on it. Otherwise we are looking at maybe rocks, dead fish, shipwreck debris, lost WWII or other plane with similar lost paperwork...   

Tim, you are welcome to come up with better ways to go about finding Amelia Earhart. I am sure TIGHAR is listening especially with the donation level you are at. Your time may be better spent on convincing the world that Amelia Earhart's plane was indeed found rather than suing this outfit. Quite frankly I see a good theory. However I don't see any proof or evidence that would convince me beyond a reasonable doubt.   

The other problem you are running into is the theory itself saying the aircraft is in the area. Someone is going to trip over it sooner or later. Knowing what you tripped over is the real trick.

Sure I am wondering what kind of experts TIGHAR has when someone points out a good target on the forum. Yet, it is better to be lucky than an expert.

The bright side is you did get a return on your investment/donation with the 2012 trip and the interesting sonar find. You also got a nice Discovery program about Amelia Earhart made possible. Thanks Tim, I really enjoyed the program. 

You may have the same luck suing the Coast Guard and the Navy for the failed 1937 search and cover up. Total waste of the court's and jury's time let alone money that could be better used to find convincing proof Amelia Earhart did better than history tells us by making it to this island.
TIGHAR # 4274R
 
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Leon R White

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Re: TIGHAR Legal Defense Fund
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2013, 05:18:06 PM »

According to the complaint, Mr. Mellon donated "stock" equal in value to $1 mill roughly.  Why stock, I wonder?  Let's follow the money. Using simplified numbers for those of us not in the 2%: 

The stock was donated at present day value.  Mr. Mellon received a tax deduction for the donation.  The stock had appreciated from the original value, otherwise he wouldn't have donated it as stock. He'd have sold it at a loss or held on to it.  So.  Mr. Mellon purchased/inherited/owned $5 worth of stock which appreciated to ? $20?  He then donated the stock valued at $20 and got a tax deduction of $20 for stock he paid $5 for. His donation is much appreciated of course, but is that what's going on here?  Perhaps we can look forward to reading the tax returns during the discovery phase.

I'm sure many are disappointed.
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