Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Frank Cipriani  (Read 21521 times)

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2901
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2013, 06:51:59 PM »

For the Itasca to find a null, Earhart would have also had to have made those long transmissions on a frequency between 550 and 270 KHz.

Yes, exactly.  Her transmitter was crystal-controlled.  She could only transmit on three frequencies: 500, 3105, and 6210 kHz.

Of those three, 500 kHz would have been best, at least in theory.

Quote
Just for my own clarification, do we know if she ever made any attempt at transmission on 500 KHz?

None are mentioned in the logs found to date.  In theory, the Itasca and all other ships at sea should have had someone "guarding" the 500 kcs frequency at all times.  But it was for CW (Morse Code) transmissions only.  Even if she and Fred had a CW key aboard--which is in doubt--they had decided not to use CW but instead chose to rely on voice telephony.

I've never heard of AE testing whether people could get a bearing on any of her transmissions on any frequency whatsoever.  The tests made on her RDF equipment seem to have been conducted by professionals.  The one time that we have a record of AE attempting to use the RDF system, she failed to get a minimum.  That was on the day before she left Lae on the fatal flight. 
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5260
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2013, 08:13:49 PM »

To me one of the most baffling parts of Earharts' attempts at circumnavigating the globe was what appears to be her total lack of learning everything she possibly could about her radio equipment and its' capabilities and proper usage.

Perhaps the most difficult thing, and yet the most important thing, to accept in exploring the Earhart tragedy is the chasm between the public persona created by George Putnam and the real person who was Amelia Earhart. 
Logged

Dave Potratz

  • T2
  • **
  • Posts: 75
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2013, 01:00:52 PM »

To me one of the most baffling parts of Earharts' attempts at circumnavigating the globe was what appears to be her total lack of learning everything she possibly could about her radio equipment and its' capabilities and proper usage.

Perhaps the most difficult thing, and yet the most important thing, to accept in exploring the Earhart tragedy is the chasm between the public persona created by George Putnam and the real person who was Amelia Earhart.

...and that ultimately, this heroine's reach exceeded her grasp.

LTM,
dp
Logged

Dan Swift

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 347
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2013, 02:13:29 PM »

Narcissism.  I am Amelia Earhart....I don't have to prepare like others....I will get it done.....somehow....I always do.....  One will eventually run out of 'luck' with that attitude.  And she did. 
TIGHAR Member #4154
 
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2013, 03:38:55 PM »

Of those three, 500 kHz would have been best, at least in theory.


Marty, I don't know much about radios, but wouldn't she have been unable to transmit on 500 kHz if the belly antenna had been destroyed taking off from Lae?
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
Logged

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2901
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2013, 06:20:20 PM »

Marty, I don't know much about radios, but wouldn't she have been unable to transmit on 500 kHz if the belly antenna had been destroyed taking off from Lae?

The top ("dorsal V") antenna was used for transmission.

This article was intended to help sort out the history of antennas on the aircraft.  I'm not sure it entirely succeeds.  :-[
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2013, 06:28:22 PM »

Exactly, as quoted from your source.
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
Logged

Ric Gillespie

  • Executive Director
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 5260
  • "Do not try. Do or do not. There is no try" Yoda
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2013, 07:03:00 PM »

This article was intended to help sort out the history of antennas on the aircraft.  I'm not sure it entirely succeeds.  :-[

I'm afraid you're right.  The airplane's antenna history is complicated.  Let's take them in chronological order.

• As delivered in July 1936, the airplane had two antennas - a trailing wire that deployed through the extreme end of the tail and a wire antenna that ran from the starboard-side pitot tube along the starboard side of the belly supported by two masts on the belly, one roughly amidships and the other centered under the cabin window.  This latter - the starboard-side belly wire - is the only antenna that remained unchanged throughout the aircraft's service life.

• In October 1936, a small loop antenna in a translucent faired dome was added on the top of the cabin for the Hooven Radio Compass. A belly wire antenna was added to the port side, parallel to the one on the starboard side.

• Some time in January or February 1937, the dorsal vee antenna was added.  Around this time, the deployment position for the trailing wire antenna was moved from the extreme tail to a mast protruding from the underside of the cabin.

• In early March, the faired Hooven loop was removed and an open Bendix MN-5 loop was added to the top of the cockpit, slightly offset to the starboard side.

• In the rebuild following the Luke Field crash, the port side belly antenna and the trailing wire antenna were not reinstalled.

• At the time of the second world flight attempt the plane had three antennas - the starboard belly wire, the Bendix loop, and the dorsal vee.

• During the takeoff from Lae, the belly wire was lost.
Logged

william patterson

  • T1
  • *
  • Posts: 45
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2013, 09:24:45 PM »

To me one of the most baffling parts of Earharts' attempts at circumnavigating the globe was what appears to be her total lack of learning everything she possibly could about her radio equipment and its' capabilities and proper usage.

Perhaps the most difficult thing, and yet the most important thing, to accept in exploring the Earhart tragedy is the chasm between the public persona created by George Putnam and the real person who was Amelia Earhart.

I am not sure the Putnam version is what survives in public memory.
 I would bet if a poll were taken here,  few would place blame on Thompson or Cipriani and that is my point. It seems that the vast majority would follow along the lines of Marty's comment that even if the land based high frequency DF was working, she still would have been lost. The perception is she just didn't know, or take time to know her radio, follow training, and make proper planning.
Well today we know to a certain extent that is true.

However, we certainly do not know all the correspondence she may have had, we don't have minute notes of her training, but we do have a widespread perception of a "devil may care, flying by seat of the pants..." We have heard them all.
That is the surviving perception and it seems to have started from the time of Thompson's first comments afterwords.
That has been reinforced by authors through the years, and  I am not sure if Thompson or Cipriani and the Coast guard get their
fair share of blame.
As Ric pointed out in 1999 on this forum paraphrased " it was Thompson that slept on the island that night, perhaps he should been supervising Cipriani"
We know her system seemed to fail, but also know the backup failed as well.
Do we blame the primary system or the failure of the backup system for the event?

Three times she asked for a signal  within 200 miles on a high frequency. Was she just stupid? Did she not realize the Itasca could not locate her and was she indeed unaware of the land based set? Or was she reassured that even if her faulty system failed, the Navy(or coast guard) could guide her in?

For all the Devil may care attitude Earhart may have had, Noonan seemed no fool, nor suicidal. He knew his radio did not work, knew he did not know code, and must have known after Dakar that would have been catastrophic over water. Long before losing a belly wire, I have to believe Fred knew that radio was in trouble, in fact we know this because he wrote it was trouble. Yet, he is offers no misgivings we know about. For me, this indicates knowledge of a backup system.
If he has knowledge or doesn't, is the primary chute failure to blame, or the backup chute failure to blame?

Thompson quickly wanted everyone to know the backup chute was unknown, experimental, no good, and the Ditzy dame was to blame. You have to read a little deeper to find out about the personnel problems on the Itasca, their transmitter issues and overall radio problems, and add in the potential the Itasca itself as the primary system could have contributed to failure as well.

Does the general public know about all that? I think not so much.  Media has generally presented that Earhart bit off more than she could chew.
I think that is the majority perception that has survived rightly or wrongly. It is more than just assigning blame, it's getting the history correct, and assigning responsibility for the event.
I believe the Coast Guard got off easy in Historic  hindsight.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 09:57:33 PM by william patterson »
Logged

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2901
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2013, 09:57:05 PM »

Exactly, as quoted from your source.

"Unsuitable" doesn't mean "impossible."

And, since the belly antenna that may have been lost at Lae seems to have been solely for reception, either as part of the regular receiver or as a sense antenna for the RDF system, having it aboard would not have improved transmissions on 500 kcs.

Joe Gurr claimed to have installed a loading coil to allow transmissions on 500 kcs.  I imagine (without proof) that he would have tested the installation and found it somewhat usable, even if not as well-suited to 500 kcs as the trailing-wire antenna.
LTM,

           Marty
           TIGHAR #2359A
 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 09:58:37 PM by Martin X. Moleski, SJ »
Logged

Tim Mellon

  • T5
  • *****
  • Posts: 805
  • Blast off!
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2013, 05:11:05 AM »

Marty, thanks for the clarification.
Tim
Chairman,  CEO
PanAm Systems

TIGHAR #3372R
 
Logged

Gloria Walker Burger

  • TIGHAR member
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Frank Cipriani
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2013, 08:44:53 PM »

Ric wrote:
Quote
Perhaps the most difficult thing, and yet the most important thing, to accept in exploring the Earhart tragedy is the chasm between the public persona created by George Putnam and the real person who was Amelia Earhart.

This is all fascinating reading (as is everything on this site!). Sadly there are so many things we will never know. Ric, what is meant by your quote? What do you view as GP's public persona of AE and the real AE?

Cipriani definitely dropped the ball IMHO, but how much that mistake affected the loss of the flight...
Gloria
TIGHAR #3760
 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
 

Copyright 2018 by TIGHAR, a non-profit foundation. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be reproduced by xerographic, photographic, digital or any other means for any purpose. No portion of the TIGHAR Website may be stored in a retrieval system, copied, transmitted or transferred in any form or by any means, whether electronic, mechanical, digital, photographic, magnetic or otherwise, for any purpose without the express, written permission of TIGHAR. All rights reserved.

Contact us at: info@tighar.org • Phone: 610-467-1937 • Membership formwebmaster@tighar.org

Powered by MySQL SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Powered by PHP