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Author Topic: Possible Rope video (2012)  (Read 83662 times)

Martin X. Moleski, SJ

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Possible Rope video (2012)
« on: December 08, 2012, 09:21:56 PM »

New YouTube upload on the TIGHAR channel.
LTM,

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Chris Johnson

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 02:34:22 AM »

Thanks Marty,

Only had a quick view but interesting to note that the ‘rope’ doesn’t look or act like the whip (rope) coral in the video.  It remains static like it’s either heavier than the coral or lodged/snagged.

In the last 30 secs or so when there is the blizzard you  can see some whip (rope) coral floating free and earlier you can see it move.

Look very similar to the ‘rope’ from 2010?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 09:59:46 AM by Chris Johnson »
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richie conroy

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 03:02:25 AM »

Hi All

In my opinion the wire is man made, What it's from is the question ?

Just thought i would add this link as some of these pictures i have never seen  :)


http://www.etsy.com/listing/48315250/rare-photos-of-amelia-earhart-and-the
We are an echo of the past


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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2012, 08:22:26 AM »

Since I was the one who asked Ric to post this footage, I had better explain:

Yesterday I was reviewing Bulletin #63 regarding the Niku VII expedition. I noticed in the table of "Found Objects"  (no longer there) that the first item was called "Cable/Wire". Since its position was more or less directly West from Nessie, and near the 250 meter contour (i.e. about 800 feet deep), I thought there might be some likelihood that it lay close to what appears in the 2010 "entire" video. So I asked Ric if he could post some 2012 footage that showed this particular item.

When I looked at the two frames he sent, the terrain immediately looked familiar. I was able to produce a similar frame from 2010 showing similar details. Once the 5 minute "Possible Rope" was posted just before midnight EST, I was able to recognize that the Site labeled #1 in the Found Objects was, in reality, the same area corresponding to the uphill portion of the 2010 "entire" debris site.

I have attached a "panoramic" view of the area, looking "downhill", as well as frames showing particular components.

CORRECTION:  I have removed the picture of what I thought might be a propeller. When I viewed this brief portion of the video on Jeff Glickman's High Definition screen, it became immediately apparent to me that the "propeller" was not actually attached to the "engine", and that the "engine" itself was likely something else, and perhaps a rock.
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« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 06:34:17 AM by Tim Mellon »
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Chris Johnson

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2012, 10:00:29 AM »

Cheers Tim,

thought it looked familier.  Have you got a better image of the prop?
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2012, 10:39:49 AM »

  Have you got a better image of the prop?

No, Chris, unfortunately it was up in the far left hand corner, and only for about 2 seconds. Maybe if Ric has more footage, before and after, a better glance might be had.
Tim
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 08:21:18 AM »

I noticed in the table of "Found Objects"  (no longer there) that the first item was called "Cable/Wire".

To be clear - the table of Objects Found provided by Phoenix International is still there in Research Bulletin #63 titled Debris Field Analysis. The first item is labeled "Rope/Cable.
The object was seen during Dive 3 on 7/14/12.  The Phoenix Dive Log for that day is included below.  Note that at 2315 the log records "possible cable/wire sighted at 980' (identified as whip coral)". I don't know who identified it as whip coral. We did not have a marine biologist aboard KOK.

Is this the same place seen in the 2010 video?  In 2010 the ROV had a maximum tether length of 300 meters (984 feet) but you can't really go that deep because you have to have some slack in the tether.  The rope-like object seen in the 2010 video was at about 800 feet.  That depth was possible with the 984 foot tether.  The rope-like object in the 2012 video is at 980 feet - only four feet shorter than the 2010 tether length. I don't think the ROV could get to that place in 2010.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 11:42:10 AM »

Thanks for restoring the tables. Maybe I was looking at a different version of Bulletin #63.

I don't see any depth indication on the HD video like there was on the SD. So maybe Phoenix was refering to a different piece of wire at another point on the dive #3, which went all the way down to about 360 meters. My trust in Pheonix is on a very short tether.

Update: the depth of #1 in Objects Found is 284.9 meters, about 935 feet, which is within the scope of the 2010 tether by 50 feet.

Since both the landing gear assembly and the WC vent pieces are common to both 2010 and 2012 videos, I'm pretty sure this is the same place.
Tim
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« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 07:08:01 AM by Tim Mellon »
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 03:50:19 AM »

A close comparison of the Phoenix table and chart of Objects Found with the track of ROV dive #3 shows that Object #1 lies at the intersection of the 300 meter contour with the dive track. Since we have seen in "Summary of Debris" that this Object may also have been seen at the top of the 2010 debris field, it may be reasonable to assume that other items of interest might be found at greater depths along the track of the ROV dive #3.

Ric, I therefore respectfully request that additional HD footage be made available showing, say, the next deeper 20 meters along this track, both descending and ascending.                               
Tim
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« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 01:58:00 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Jeff Victor Hayden

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 10:08:23 AM »

Sounds logical Tim. Any wreckage is likely to take the route of least resistance when sliding down the side of a seamount i.e. a fairly direct route from the top to the bottom, grooves and ledges permitting.
There are a couple of similarities with this footage and the 2010, not the same but, a similar formation and pattern of 'coral/objects' as in 2010. Plus something really strange amidst the blizzard apart from the snowfall that is, well, it's nearly Christmas.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 10:24:44 AM »

I'd like to propose an experiment.  How about if I put up on the TIGHAR Youtube channel, several video clips of 2012 HD footage, each at least one minute long?  Some of the clips will be from the area where some see airplane wreckage and human remains.  Other clips will be from nowhere near there - but only I will know which is which.  It should be interesting to see who sees what and where.
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 10:43:35 AM »

that sounds fair
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Lauren Palmer

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 11:04:39 AM »

All this talk about whether objects are coral or coral-covered plane parts is very interesting, but I keep thinking we're forgetting what we discovered Way Back When -- When the settlers arrived, they found enough plane parts ABOVE WATER/ON-SHORE to state that there was an airplane wreck on Gardner, NOT that there was a lot of flotsam that could have floated in from somewhere else.  They claim to have made many items from the wreckage, so there may not be a big-enough segment in the ocean ever to identify which plane crashed.  I think it's important to keep trying to view the underwater slopes, though, and I wish I had a lot of money to contribute.
On a side note, my ex-husband was a pilot and took me on several plane trips, and was very upset that I could not recognize items on the ground.  I find it very understandable that the rescue plane could fly over the island and see no-one signaling him, and assume that all the mess he saw was from the ship.  (He got upset at everything, which is why we are divorced!) ;D
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 12:01:35 PM »

I keep thinking we're forgetting what we discovered Way Back When -- When the settlers arrived, they found enough plane parts ABOVE WATER/ON-SHORE to state that there was an airplane wreck on Gardner, NOT that there was a lot of flotsam that could have floated in from somewhere else.  They claim to have made many items from the wreckage, so there may not be a big-enough segment in the ocean ever to identify which plane crashed.

People forget a lot of things, but if the many accounts of there being an aircraft wreck already present when the first settlers arrived are true, there is only one aircraft it could possibly be.
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Possible Rope video (2012)
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 12:14:40 PM »

Does kinda narrow it down, doesn't it?

You pays your money and you takes your choice.  Either the multiple independent anecdotal accounts of a "downed plane" that was already there are all bogus - or - the Earhart Electra is the "downed plane" of
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