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In Reply #24 to the "Summary of Debris" thread, there is a scale for the picture of the scallop shell.

 2 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 5 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
 8 centimeters
- 4 (25%)
13 centimeters
- 1 (6.3%)
18 centimeters
- 3 (18.8%)

Total Members Voted: 15


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Author Topic: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video  (Read 312372 times)

Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #150 on: December 15, 2012, 11:18:33 AM »

Here is another object, the battery previously documented, as seen in both the 2010 HD video (from below), and then again in the 2012 pass (from above). The position of the HF antenna seems to have shifted slightly with respect to the battery. I think this HF antenna has always been under tension from below, which may also explain why the 2010 video shows channels that the antenna has worn.
Tim
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william patterson

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #151 on: December 15, 2012, 10:44:12 PM »

To me "circumstantial" does mean "unproven" in the stricktest sense. But other explanations like flotsam and/or jetsam from the aircraft may be involved. Or Gallagher, as mentioned. Or even Coast Guard (or their "invitees"). Others may propose additional possibilities.

Ric Gillespie himself said the Artifact evidence and archaeolgy evidence was so great it was like the TV commercials for phone service, where Tighar is saying "can you hear me now, can you hear me now?" and this evidence has become too hard to ignore, hence, can you hear Tighar now? The evidence of a castaway(I thought) pointed to AE, since this was the only white European woman lost in the area. Likewise the seven site had documented substantial evidence of a 1930's woman castaway.
I guess we are on a new track now.

The eyes of Mr. Mellon ignore all of the hard work, and focus in on Freds pants at 800 ft and skeletons that look like rocks, fingers, and now housekeys.
So since 20 years of Archaeology is being ignored and labeled Flotsam, or Coast guard generated, let's all use our eyes are evidence.
I personally see in the lambrecht photo Amelia and Fred waving near a coconut tree with a sign saying they were rowing to Fiji in one of the lifeboats. The sign says "dont worry, we are in love, heading to Fiji, LTM", Yes, I can see that as well as any rock Mellon states shows a fuselage.
If we are going to speculate based on someone's poor eyesite, let's all pick a picture and interpret it at will, to hades with the archaelogical evidence I thought Tighar was based on.
They went to Fiji. 90% Fiji, 10% Mellons skeletons.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #152 on: December 15, 2012, 10:58:45 PM »

Mr. Patterson, I think it is both fair and accurate to say that neither TIGHAR nor I have ever yet called anything related to things at Nikumaroro "proof".
Tim
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 11:08:30 PM by Tim Mellon »
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JNev

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #153 on: December 15, 2012, 11:11:51 PM »

How about sick?

Lighten up. Don't you know it's all just coral?

Sorry William, coulda passed but have to say I'm with Tim on this (and he already knows I view this stuff as 'highly likely coral' but has the unfailing good manners to treat me as a gentleman none-the-less) -

Given the odds as I see them, for now at least I think I am safely more more tongue-in-cheek than 'sick' - but mean not to offend, certainly.  However, if we find those are human remains I'll be among the first to straighten up and pay proper respects; good raising requires nothing less, of course...

Meanwhile, however, a seeming minor genetic defect otherwise appears to prevent my escape from taking a poke at the 'bones' by throwing a 'shoe' onto the rock pile... nothing major I trust, just a mischievous streak shared by a mad uncle or two that seems to require a minor social atrocity on occasion -

And I appreciate Tim's humoring that slight flaw.  If Tim can humor it, I pray of you to forgive it - and to not really see it as a serious illness.

Now as to the twitch... :P
- Jeff Neville

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william patterson

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #154 on: December 16, 2012, 05:14:08 AM »

Mr. Patterson, I think it is both fair and accurate to say that neither TIGHAR nor I have ever yet called anything related to things at Nikumaroro "proof".

No, Tighar has never used words like proof. Unlike yourself who has made numerous claims of positive underwater identifications. However, That has zero to do with this mess created on mere speculation while dismissing possible viable evidence. The truth is if you were not a high dollar donor your actions would have consequences. Certainly, this irresponsible "seeing" project you are on would not be allowed. Now, it's to a new level where two decades of archaeology is dismissed with no supporting documentation. First build an argument, then support that argument. Merely saying "I am Tim Mellon, and I see it, so I trust my eyes, forget the seven site evidence", would get the normal poster in hot water very quick. I understand your value to Tighar, however to make dismissing claims about the seven site evidence and it being coast guard related needs support. Those claims should not be thrown asunder in a speculative sentence. Others have spent time and effort if critical of Tighar's evidence, or it was not allowed to be presented. Period. It was bad enough this seeing bodies out of rocks at 800 feet,but now trashing Tighar's work,(and make no mistake you were being dismissive because it doesn't fit your personal views) is plain wrong.
However, I expect nothing will be said to you, so no worries.
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william patterson

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #155 on: December 16, 2012, 05:19:21 AM »

How about sick?

Lighten up. Don't you know it's all just coral?

Sorry William, coulda passed but have to say I'm with Tim on this (and he already knows I view this stuff as 'highly likely coral' but has the unfailing good manners to treat me as a gentleman none-the-less) -

Given the odds as I see them, for now at least I think I am safely more more tongue-in-cheek than 'sick' - but mean not to offend, certainly.  However, if we find those are human remains I'll be among the first to straighten up and pay proper respects; good raising requires nothing less, of course...

Meanwhile, however, a seeming minor genetic defect otherwise appears to prevent my escape from taking a poke at the 'bones' by throwing a 'shoe' onto the rock pile... nothing major I trust, just a mischievous streak shared by a mad uncle or two that seems to require a minor social atrocity on occasion -

And I appreciate Tim's humoring that slight flaw.  If Tim can humor it, I pray of you to forgive it - and to not really see it as a serious illness.

Now as to the twitch... :P

"I found 4 fingers, somebody found a thumb" is poor taste. If that is Mr.Mellon's "humor", and you like it, that is your perogative of course.
I do not think the reality of lost lives and suffering deserve that level of humanity. There are still grandchildren alive, relatives alive that may actually read the forum for Tighar updates.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #156 on: December 16, 2012, 05:35:30 AM »

No, Tighar has never used words like proof. Unlike yourself who has made numerous claims of positive underwater identifications. However, That has zero to do with this mess created on mere speculation while dismissing possible viable evidence. The truth is if you were not a high dollar donor your actions would have consequences. Certainly, this irresponsible "seeing" project you are on would not be allowed. Now, it's to a new level where two decades of archaeology is dismissed with no supporting documentation. First build an argument, then support that argument. Merely saying "I am Tim Mellon, and I see it, so I trust my eyes, forget the seven site evidence", would get the normal poster in hot water very quick. I understand your value to Tighar, however to make dismissing claims about the seven site evidence and it being coast guard related needs support. Those claims should not be thrown asunder in a speculative sentence. Others have spent time and effort if critical of Tighar's evidence, or it was not allowed to be presented. Period. It was bad enough this seeing bodies out of rocks at 800 feet,but now trashing Tighar's work,(and make no mistake you were being dismissive because it doesn't fit your personal views) is plain wrong.
However, I expect nothing will be said to you, so no worries.

Mr. Patterson, I am sorry that you mischaracterize my posts and misquote me all together. You, of course, are entitled to your opinions about everything that is said on this Forum. But I think that resorting to vituperation and trashing efforts of others is neither productive nor helpful to this cause.

Why don't you go out and find something that adds to the effort of proving or disproving the Hypothesis?
Tim
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #157 on: December 16, 2012, 07:14:53 AM »

I find it extraordinary that Seer Jeff Neville contemplated almost two years ago the very scenario that we seem to see today unfolding before our eyes.
Tim
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« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 07:40:42 AM by Tim Mellon »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #158 on: December 16, 2012, 10:08:19 AM »

However, I expect nothing will be said to you, so no worries.

Tim Mellon, like anyone else on this forum, is free to disagree with any or all of TIGHAR's views on the available evidence. And like everyone else, if he expects to be taken seriously he will have to produce more than personal opinion and he cannot argue his case with invalid methodology. There's nothing new about seeing shapes in the coral.  Jeff Victor Hayden, Richie Conroy and others expounded for months about objects they see in underwater imagery before Tim began posting. 

Tim Mellon has been a generous supporter of TIGHAR's efforts to solve the Earhart mystery.  Without him, the 2012 underwater video that is the subject of so much controversy would not exist. Tim sees things that I don't see, but I can't prove that he is wrong. Jeff Glickman is now familiar with what Tim sees but he needs to do more analysis before he can offer an opinion.  Yes, Tim's generosity buys him some special courtesies, such as meeting with Jeff Glickman, but Tim has often made it clear that his views are his own, not TIGHAR's.

For the record, TIGHAR has not changed its view that the best explanation for what has been found at the Seven Site - from 1940 to the present - is that the site is where Amelia Earhart spent her final days.  The available evidence points overwhelmingly to the Electra having landed on the reef north of Norwich City and sent radio distress calls for several days before being washed over the reef edge.  What happened then remains a mystery that we hope to be able to solve through more research, analysis, and field work.
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #159 on: December 16, 2012, 11:24:04 AM »

For the record, TIGHAR has not changed its view that the best explanation for what has been found at the Seven Site - from 1940 to the present - is that the site is where Amelia Earhart spent her final days. 

I agree that this may be the best available explanation, but not necessarily the only explanation.
Tim
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #160 on: December 16, 2012, 11:52:56 AM »

The landing gear assembly, in my opinion, is another component common to both 2010 and 2012 High Definition videos. The 2010 is seen from directly above, looking down (fork visible to the right), while the 2012 shows the object somewhat down the hill (no fork visible). I think that the distictive upside-down configuration of the fender is an important clue, as hard as it might be to explain how it got that way.

CORRECTION: The 2012 SD video shows the fender to be in the proper position, and not inverted as previously thought.
Tim
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« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 05:47:34 PM by Tim Mellon »
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Ric Gillespie

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #161 on: December 16, 2012, 09:11:39 PM »

I have removed a whole string of posts that are off-topic for this thread and beneath the dignity of this forum. 
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Tim Mellon

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #162 on: December 17, 2012, 01:24:12 AM »

Well done, including some of my own - thanks!

Back to the summary...
.                   

Ditto.                                   
Tim
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« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 05:18:48 AM by Tim Mellon »
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John Joseph Barrett

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #163 on: December 17, 2012, 05:19:20 AM »

Tim,

If that is a fender turned backward on a gear assembly, it is not unreasonable to think that it may have occurred during the landing itself. Picture this:   After finally spotting some place dry to set down our duo circles the island looking for what they feel is the best place to try to land. Deciding to put down near the Norwich City they make their approach. On touch down or roll out one of the wheels hits something sharp and blows. The tire is shredding and the plane moving at a fair speed, causing the shreds to grab the rear of the fender and pull it forward as the tire rolls. With the tire deflated, or maybe even a big hole in it or chunk gone, the fender tears loose and flips without being totally destroyed and ends up inverted and somewhat distorted. Just a possibility if what it looks like it might be really is.  LTM- John
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Tom Swearengen

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Re: Summary of Debris from 2010 Video
« Reply #164 on: December 17, 2012, 07:20:42 AM »

John---that scenario is very plausible to me. We all see what kind of damage a blown tire can do on race cars, and even our own passenger cars (ask me how I know). So, landing the Electra on a reef, and then hitting something could be catastrophic for the tire, and for even a possible take off in the even that AE was found on Niku, and fuel was transported to her.
Tom Swearengen TIGHAR # 3297
 
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