Date:         Sat, 1 Sep 2007 19:04:51
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      Electra photos

    For a good view of an electra engine w/o covers, to compare with
"The Wreck Photo" visit

www.adastron.com.  click The Lockeed file, click  electra, click VH-
UZO, find pic of engine.

   There has been a lot of people restoring electras in the past, I
wonder if there is a dado on any of them.

   Mike Piner
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Sep 2007 12:38:15
From:         Pat
Subject:      Photo gallery

The entire photo gallery for Niku V is now up, for those who would
like to see the nitty-gritty details.

We are also putting together a photo CD of 100 to 200 photos from the
expedition for sale to members. The newsletter and flyer go out
today, so watch your mailbox.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 5 Sep 2007 20:02:41
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Re: Separated at birth

So I wasn't the only one to notice the matched set of bookends in the front
row of the Niku V team photo.  The avuncular "Toms" are most distinguished
with their matched tonsorial attributes.  And by the way, please use my CC
number on file to send the photo CD. The photos give a fascinating glimpse of
the expedition's operations (sans 115F heat), and are superb.

LTM, who tried to avoid close shaves, too.

Rick J #2751

**********************************

I will be working on the CD between now and Monday and (I hope) will
be able to start shipping it out on about Wednesday next week.
Thanks, Rick.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 6 Sep 2007 07:55:30
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Photo gallery

As at 4.15pm Thurs 6th Sept Brisbane Australia time the photos on the
"Island" link are not loading.

All other images on the rest of the pages seem to be fine.

Th' WOMBAT

***********************************

All fixed, just forgot to change a prefix.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:22:54
From:         Tom Doran
Subject:      Fossett's plane

Public radio this morning had a story about a scheme to allow 
volunteers on the Internet to search satellite photos for signs of 
Steve Fossett's plane. Whether that might be helpful, I don't  
know.

The NPR storey is at:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3D14332329

The link to join the search is:

http://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview? 
groupId=3D9TSZK4G35XEZJZG21T60&kw=3DFlash

One thing I thought interesting about the Fossett search was to hear 
that by the weekend searchers had found a half dozen unknown plane 
crash sites, none related to Fossett. I wonder how many other unknown
wrecks there might be out there. How often do planes go missing 
without a trace? Some of these might be sixty years old or more. I 
suppose it's possible they were discovered years ago but never 
documented.

Tom Doran #2796
Atlanta
======================================================================== 
Date:         Wed, 12 Sep 2007 18:58:59
From:         Marty Moleski
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

> From Tom Doran
>
> Public radio this morning had a story about a scheme to allow 
> volunteers on the Internet to search satellite photos for signs of 
> Steve Fossett's plane. Whether that might be helpful, I don't know. 
> The NPR storey is at:
>
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3D14332329
>
> The link to join the search is:
>
> http://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?
> groupId=3D9TSZK4G35XEZJZG21T60&kw=3DFlash

I've done 539 "hits" over the last few days.

Each "hit" is an image of about 85 square meters.

I've reported 3 oddities--with not much hope for success.

The suggestion to use Google Earth to double-check a hit
isn't working for me.  I'm blaming my college connection,
but it may be overload of the Google server, too.

				Marty #2359
======================================================================== 
Date:         Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:40:27
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

  From Tom Doran #2796

> One thing I thought interesting about the Fossett search was to hear
> that by the weekend searchers had found a half dozen unknown plane crash
> sites, none related to Fossett. I wonder how many other unknown wrecks
> there might be out there.

This is a classic example of the press and even search officials getting
facts wrong.

None of these crashes were unknown crashes or planes that were still
missing. They were simply crashes that have long been forgotten about
and not on the "Wreckage Locator List." These lists are lists the CAP
use to record old crash sites. Unfortunately they are horribly
inaccurate and incomplete. On average the crash site location given by
the list is off by 2 to 3 miles and 10 plus miles are not uncommon.

Another fact I have seen in the Fossett article are that there are 150
to 300 missing planes in Nevada. There are 300 (or more) old wrecks with
some wreckage in the hills and deserts of NV, but not missing aircraft.
I have been working with a CAP historian who specializes on missing
aircraft and he is pretty sure that other than Fossett's plane there are
no aircraft currently still missing in NV. (We have 4 missing here in
AZ)

Craig Fuller
AAIR Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
www.AviationArchaeology.com
======================================================================== 
Date:         Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:41:13
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

> The suggestion to use Google Earth to double-check a hit
> isn't working for me.  I'm blaming my college connection,
> but it may be overload of the Google server, too.

Google maps were made one, two and three years ago. Some have been
updated this year but I don't know of any section updated in the last
two weeks.

Alan
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:31:55
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

Did he have an ELT?  If not, why not?

Also, I had assumed the CAP had mapped the crashed planes with GPS.
I guess not; it would sure save a lot of future false reports if that
was on a data base somewhere.

LTM, who remains found
Dennis O. McGee #0149EC
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:34:15
From:         Marty Moleski
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

>  From Alan Caldwell
>
>> The suggestion to use Google Earth to double-check a hit
>> isn't working for me.  I'm blaming my college connection,
>> but it may be overload of the Google server, too.
>
> Google maps were made one, two and three years ago. Some have been
> updated this year but I don't know of any section updated in the
> last two weeks.

The instructions given on the Mechanical Turk page ask participants
who want to use Google Earth to download this file and open it
in G.E.:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/fossett/geoeye-color.kml

These images were made AFTER the crash.

The small photos presented in Mechanical Turk are
from those post-crash films.

				Marty #2359
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:34:46
From:         Jim Preston
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

I am at the Air Races and today I spoke with 2 Sheriff's Deputies and
they said that Waker Lake had been cleared but not Mono Lake. Some
speculation about ravines around Lake Tahoe. But they are still
loking. I am working at the National Heritage Foundation and
yesterday we had a Biplane crash right in front of our Hospitality
Tent with the Pilot getting killed. The wreakage is supposed to be
still there waiting for the NTSB. Engine went bang and the a/c
stalled and fell about 100 feet to the ground.
Jim Preston
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:37:59
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

>> The suggestion to use Google Earth to double-check a hit
>> isn't working for me.  I'm blaming my college connection,
>> but it may be overload of the Google server, too.
>
> Google maps were made one, two and three years ago. Some have been
> updated this year but I don't know of any section updated in the
> last  two weeks.

As he says, Marty is just using Google Earth to eliminate possible
contacts by comparison with their older images.
The Fosset search sat. images will obviously be current.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:38:36
From:         Greg Kettman
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

Just a small point of clarification.  Google Earth is the program.
As indicated it pulls images which are very old, as in not useful for
a search in the last week.  However, the instructions actually have
you load a different file (geo-eye.kml) which loads the black and
white imagery used for the search.  Google Earth has the advantage of
being able to look outside of just the little box they give you and
see the section in context.  You can also move up and down and side
to side and get an idea of slope, altitude, etc.  On many of the
squares they give you it's very easy to indicate that nothing is
found but on others it's hard to tell.  I use Google Earth with the
supplied images to get a better look of the same area.  Note that
Google Earth running geo-eye.kml images look exactly like those in
the search, only Google Earth gives you a larger viewing area and you
can see more.
GGK
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:49:18
From:         Marty Moleski
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

> Did he have an ELT?  If not, why not?

The plane had an ELT.

Fossett had a Breitling watch that could put out a low-power
locator signal.

<http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/2007/09/if-hes-landed-a.html>

The ELTs that broadcast on 121.5 MHz are being phased out:

<http://www.equipped.org/uscgsarsat.htm>.  They seem
to be more trouble than they're worth.

I haven't heard whether Fossett's plane had a 121.5 MHz
or a 406 MHz ELT.

				Marty #2359
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:49:49
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

Dennis, Fossett's plane had a transponder which was not activated or
more accurately was not picked up. It also had a crash beacon which
should have gone off if the plane crashed or even had a very hard
landing. That was not picked up either. Fossett, himself, wore a
device he could activate which would have set off a tracking beacon.
That was not picked up. The plane had radios and no transmission was
picked up.

Three possibilities occur to me. First and extremely unlikely is he
just landed somewhere and is OK and doesn't know anyone is looking
for him. I can't see that at all. Second and most likely in my
opinion is that the plane experienced a catastrophic break up in
flight. The plane was an acrobatic plane and may have, over time,
been over stressed. If he was over a lake when it happened that could
explain no signals.

The searchers have thought of all this and they have been using sonar
on at least one lake.

I suppose a third possibility is that he lost consciousness soon
after take off and the plane flew straight and out of the search area.

Alan
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:50:17
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: Fossett plane

I checked out the new file for the Fossett search. It ends a little
more than half way to Mono lake. It doesn't cover the more likely
event he went further south from Flying M or even eastward.

Alan
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:06:30
From:         Tom Doran
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

CNN is still reporting that a half dozen unknown wrecks were discovered
and "there might be as many as 200 more."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/13/fossett/index.html#cnnSTCText

If they are carelessly repeating rumors and ill-informed speculation,
they ought to be called on it.

Tom Doran #2796
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:10:16
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

First possibility doesn't appear very likely.

Third possibility very unlikely, I've never seen  a Citabria with an
autopilot installed, I don't think it is even possible.

Bottom of lake, not too many lakes out there so much more probable
that a crash would occur on dry land, it is a desert after all.

ELTs are notoriously unreliable. They are supposed to transmit
automatically following a crash but it is very common for them to
fail to do this.

The ELT can, however, be activated manually as can the locator in his
watch so, if  he survived the crash, you would expect that he would
have activated both the ELT and the watch.

So, most likely, a crash that was not survivable.

 (ELT = Emergency Locator Beacon.)

> From Alan Caldwell
>
> Dennis, Fossett's plane had a transponder which was not activated
> or  more accurately was not picked up. It also had a crash beacon
> which  should have gone off if the plane crashed or even had a very
> hard  landing. That was not picked up either. Fossett, himself,
> wore a  device he could activate which would have set off a
> tracking beacon.  That was not picked up. The plane had radios and
> no transmission was  picked up.
>
> Three possibilities occur to me. First and extremely unlikely is
> he  just landed somewhere and is OK and doesn't know anyone is
> looking  for him. I can't see that at all. Second and most likely
> in my  opinion is that the plane experienced a catastrophic break
> up in  flight. The plane was an acrobatic plane and may have, over
> time,  been over stressed. If he was over a lake when it happened
> that could  explain no signals.
>
> The searchers have thought of all this and they have been using
> sonar  on at least one lake.
>
> I suppose a third possibility is that he lost consciousness soon
> after take off and the plane flew straight and out of the search area.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:24:11
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

Or, he could be intentionally trying to disappear, buth this doesn't
appear to be in character.   Dan Postellon

> From Alan Caldwell
>
> ...Three possibilities occur to me. First and extremely unlikely is
> he  just landed somewhere and is OK and doesn't know anyone is
> looking  for him. I can't see that at all. Second and most likely
> in my  opinion is that the plane experienced a catastrophic break
> up in  flight. ... I suppose a third possibility is that he lost
> consciousness soon  after take off and the plane flew straight and
> out of the search area. Alan
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:50:56
From:         Amanda Dunham
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

Tom Doran wrote:

> CNN is still reporting that a half dozen unknown wrecks were
> discovered
> and "there might be as many as 200 more."
> If they are carelessly repeating rumors and ill-informed speculation,
> they ought to be called on it.

No kidding.  That sort of inaccuracy seems to be getting worse
lately, and not just CNN.

::  CAUTION - RANT AHEAD ::

For example, the next time I hear a CNN talking head, or any
broadcaster for that matter, refer to 9/11/01 as "the first time the
U.S. was attacked on its own soil," I'm going to smack them upside
the head with a great big history book.  Even ruling out the Civil
War on a technicality because it was ourselves vs. ourselves, that
still leaves General George Washington with a little something to say
about Manhattan as a battle ground.  Not to mention the White House
being pretty well gutted by fire in 1812.  (I guess that's why it was
so comforting when Queen Elizabeth II had "The Star Spangled Banner"
played at the changing of the guard.)

Rant over.  Sorry for the detour off topic.  I'll go email CNN.
LTM,
Who always said to turn that thing off and do your homework otherwise
the Hessians have already won.
--
#2418CE
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:53:04
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

Tom Doran wrote

> If they are carelessly repeating rumors and ill-informed speculation,
> they ought to be called on it.

The details of almost all press reports on all topics are for the
most part riddled with errors and have been that way throughout the
history of journalism. To researchers who use press reports in
historical research, this is unremarkable. Meanwhile, don't get me
started on the errors in history books, which is a whole 'nother thing.

LTM, William Webster-Garman

*****************************************

And, if I may drag this topic kicking and screaming towards Earhart
-- a problem for people who rely on the newspaper reports of the time
concerning her disappearance is the contradictions, errors, elisions,
and plain ol' lies contained therein. Which is how some of the
history books end up as wrong as they are.

Pat
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:22:42
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

Also, don't forget Pearl Harbor and Attu, Alaska during World War II.
Oregon also received one or two balloon bombs from Japan during WWII as
well.

> From Amanda Dunham
>
> For example, the next time I hear a CNN talking head, or any
> broadcaster for that matter, refer to 9/11/01 as "the first time the
> U.S. was attacked on its own soil," I'm going to smack them upside
> the head with a great big history book.  Even ruling out the Civil
> War on a technicality because it was ourselves vs. ourselves, that
> still leaves General George Washington with a little something to say
> about Manhattan as a battle ground.  Not to mention the White House
> being pretty well gutted by fire in 1812.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:23:33
From:         Tom Doran
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

<<drag this topic kicking and screaming towards Earhart  >>

I sort of thought it was related to "Historic Aircraft Recovery."

Tom Doran #2796

*********************************

Yes -- but this is, after all, the EARHART forum <G>.

P
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:24:10
From:         Monty Fowler
Subject:      Now you too can own the Itasca!

Or at least a really small representation of her. White Ensign Models,
an very fine English hobby firm, has come out with a 1/700 scale kit of
the Itasca as she was in her guise as HMS Gorleston in WW II as part of
Lend-Lease. Leaving off a few of the guns and other armaments will give
you an faithful representation of this important (to us, anyway) ship.
More information is at:

http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//
www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/catalogbody.html&CatalogBody

and then scroll down to the 1/700 Banff Class Sloop (Reference #K 743).

LTM, who revels in all things resin,
Monty Fowler, No. 2189CE
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:24:29
From:         Mike Piner
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

I heard or read some short blurb about Fuel onboard the airplane,
and I don't recall what.  Does anyone have information about the
amount of fuel he had?

Mike
======================================================================== 
Date:         Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:27:53
From:         Med Godlewski
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

There are hundreds of wrecks in the area. The NTSB data base confirms
this.

Tom Doran wrote:

> CNN is still reporting that a half dozen unknown wrecks were
> discovered and "there might be as many as 200 more."
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:25:38
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

Mike, the plane holds 39 gallons usable fuel and has a flow rate of
about 9.5 gph at 5,000' and 147 mph. I figured, practically, Fossett
had about 3 hours of fuel and ought to be found inside of a 400 mile
radius. Most likely he was at a low altitude agl and a slow airspeed
as he was searching dry lake beds. He was also getting ready to
compete in a sail plane so he might have been checking out thermals.

Alan
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:26:09
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

The AF wreck registry shows about 136 in Nevada. They showed one at
N38 degrees 52' W119 degrees 28' which I couldn't find. I DID find
one at N38 degrees 52' 30.82" W119 degrees 21' 48.65" but it wasn't
Fossett's plane. It isn't identified but the Decathlon Fossett flew
had squared off wing tips and my wreck had tapered tips. Yes, I
reported it anyway.

Alan
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:26:51
From:         Marty Moleski
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

>  From Mike Piner:
>
>    I heard or read some short blurb about Fuel onboard the
> airplane, and I don't recall what.  Does anyone have information
> about the amount of fuel he had?

The first wave of AP articles say:

"The retired trader was described as a meticulous and careful planner
who left nothing to chance; rescuers said they had been told that
even for a flight of a few hours, Fossett had four full tanks of fuel
on board."

<http://64.233.167.104/search?
q=cache:CbRorFh42Q8J:www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-
fossett_wedsep05,0,7716437.story%3Fcoll%3Dchi-business-utl+fossett+%
22fuel+on+board%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us>

As Pat said early today, newspaper accounts need to be taken with
a grain of salt.

					Marty #2359
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:28:12
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

At least one of the Fu-gos balloon bombs made it to Michigan, but it
was a dud.  If the guy who had everything he needed to make a dirty
bomb, except the explosives and the radioactive matter, counts as a
terrorist, then I guess this one counts too.   Dan

> From Randy Jacobson Also, don't forget Pearl Harbor and Attu,
> Alaska during World War II.
> Oregon also received one or two balloon bombs from Japan during
> WWII as
> well.
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:31:46
From:         Russ Matthews
Subject:      Re: Now you can own the Itasca

Monty Fowler wrote:

<< White Ensign Models, a very fine English hobby firm, has come out
with a 1/700 scale kit of the Itasca as she was in her guise as HMS
Gorleston in WW II as part of Lend-Lease. >>

Neat. I notice that they are soon to release a larger 1/350 scale
version of the Banff class sloops/Lake class cutters (which should
result in a model about 8 and a half inches long). Check it out at...

http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//
www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/
Online_Catalogue_White_Ensign_Models_Products_3.html&CatalogBody

and scroll down to HMS Landguard/USCGC Shoshone 1941 (Reference #K 3563)

LTM,
Russ
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:26:27
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Japanese bombs

Actually more than 300 bomb laden balloons made it to the U.S, most
landed in Oregon and Washington. This was kept secret during the war
to avoid panicking Americans. They were not successful in igniting
forest fires because the Japanese forgot that it rains a lot in the
Northwest.

However, one group of six picnickers were killed when they discovered
one of these devices and it exploded and this was kept secret for
many years..

" The most tragic incident involving balloon bombs also found a place
in history as yielding the only deaths due to enemy action on
mainland America during World War II. The events unfolded on May 5,
1945 as a pastor and his wife took five children for a picnic on a
beautiful spring day east of Bly. As Reverend Archie Mitchell parked
the car, he heard his pregnant wife, Elsye, call out: "Look what I
found, dear." One of the children tried to remove the balloon from a
tree and triggered the bomb. The force of the blast immediately
filled the air with dust, pine needles, twigs, branches, and dead
logs. The mangled bodies of Elsye and the children were strewn around
a crater that was three feet wide and one foot deep. Elsye lived
briefly but most of the children died instantly."

http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/exhibits/ww2/threat/bombs.htm

In addition, the Jap submarine I-25 also shelled the coast and on
September 9, 1942 Japanese pilot Nobuo Fujita catapulted from the
I-25 and dropped four bombs on Oregon.

http://www.wolfendenpublishing.com/haroldstephens/
bangkokpost_japanamericanbomb.htm

Now for the rest of the story:

"Brookings, Oregon - Japanese Bombed Here
In the mountains east of Brookings, Oregon, you can hike a trail and
see where a Japanese bomb landed during WWII. There were no people
there then, and there aren't any now, on 1/7/00. [Janebird, 01/08/2000]
[RA: One incendiary bomb was dropped on Sept 9, 1942 by the same
intrepid sub-launched seaplane pilot who bombed Port Orford (that
bomb didn't explode). In the 1960s pilot Nobuo Fujita was invited to
Brookings, where he presented the town with his 350-year old samurai
sword.]"
He rode in a parade through the town he bombed. He was a successful
businessman and he set up a scholarship for kids from Brookings and
sponsored trips for Brookings kids to Japan.

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/getAttraction.php?
tip_AttractionNo==1042

http://www.wolfendenpublishing.com/haroldstephens/
bangkokpost_japanamericanbomb.htm

gl
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:36:33
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Japanese bombs

Obliquely related to both AE and FN, the Japanese bombed Howland
Island on 8 December 1941 (putting craters into the airstrips which
had been built for the world flight stopover) and a few days later a
Japanese submarine shelled what was left of little Itascatown. Two
colonists were killed, the two terrified survivors lived in a ditch
for almost two months until they were evacuated by the US Navy,
returned to Hawaii and sternly told to keep their mouths shut about
what happened (which they did).

ttp://kapalama.ksbe.edu/archives/historical/huipanalaau/end.php

So far as I know this was never reported by newspapers or wire
services throughout the war (or afterwards for that matter).

The airstrips were further damaged during the war, weren't kept up
and gradually eroded away to nothingness. By the early 1980s Howland
was long abandoned but was home to hundreds of feral housecats, grand-
kitties of pets kept by earlier guano and US government colonists.
These were "cleared" and the place is now a desolate bulldozed flat
of coral rubble with some scattered traces of low ruins. It's a bird
sanctuary managed by the US Fish and Wildlife Service. They have
sometimes coordinated their official visits to the island with ham
radio operators because the cost of chartering a safely equipped boat
there (as to Nikumaroro) is so very high.

There is no record of any fixed wing aircraft ever having managed to
land on Howland Island.

LTM, William Webster-Garman
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:37:30
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

>> From Meg Godlewski
>>
>> There are hundreds of wrecks in the area. The NTSB data base confirms
>> this.
> Tom Doran wrote:
> CNN is still reporting that a half dozen unknown wrecks were
> discovered
> and "there might be as many as 200 more."

There is no argument that there are many wrecks in the area, the key is
UNKNOWN wrecks. To save bandwidth-- and Pat from completely pulling her
hair out-- for those interested my rant is posted at:
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/fossett.htm

Craig Fuller
AAIR Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
www.AviationArchaeology
======================================================================== 
Date:         Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:18:07
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Fossett's plane

Craig is absolutely correct.  The words "Unknown wrecks" should
not be used.  The term "forgotten wrecks" would be more appropriate.
Some of you may remember the story last year about the  B-24 that
crash near Mojave, California in which 10 men were killed.    When I
began searching for it nobody locally knew anything about it.  Many
wreck chasers knew about it from the crash report, but nobody knew
where it was. When I finally located the site, it turned out to be
only 1 1/2 miles out of town, and in plain view.  One paper out here
referred to it as an unknown wreck.  None of the locals knew it was
there, and those who did, had long since passed away.  JPAC came out
and recovered 10 bags of human remains from the site.  The Army had
recovered what they could at the time of the accident, and then it
was just forgotten.  Those human remains had been out there  for over
60 years while motorcycle tracks criss-crossed the area and people
dumped trash in the impact crater.  It was a forgotten wreck, not an
unknown wreck.

Don Jordan
Cal City, CA
======================================================================== 
Date:         Sat, 15 Sep 2007 12:22:54
From:         Andrew McKenna
Subject:      Re: attacks on the U.S.

In the interesting attacks on the US, try googling Black Tom, or
Black Tom Explosion.

that one is mostly forgotten, but at the time was estimated to have
caused $20 million in damages, and those were 1916 dollars.

amck
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:38:16
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Japanese bombs

Somehow two of the links in this post got mangled. Here are links
that work:

http://www.wolfendenpublishing.com/haroldstephens/
bangkokpost_japanamericanbomb.htm

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/getAttraction.php?%
20tip_AttractionNo==1042
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 16 Sep 2007 08:10:39
From:         Doug Rainger
Subject:      Re: Attacks on the U.S.

Don't forget the short visit paid us by Pancho Villa.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:35:23
From:         Ron Bright
Subject:      George Putnam at Saipan

   While assisting in the biography for a book on GP, the claim that
GP actually visited Saipan, perhaps late 1944 , to search for Amelia
has been difficult to prove and pinpoint the source. So far:
   1. Lovell mentions the claim on p. 326, that GP drove about the
island looking for AE evidence. She has no cite or reference.
   2. A few years ago, Gordon Vaeth, longtime AE researcher, said he
talked to a colleage at NOAA, a "Chuck" Cushman, who recalled that as
an Air Force Capt, he drove GP around the island in a jeep. Cushman
is dead, thus we can't check out how sure he was that it was GP.
   3. Goerner lists an interview with Cushman but I haven't found the
file yet. (It seems if Goerner could confirm GP was there he would
have written about it in the book or in later years in his prolific
correspondence)

     I haven't seen any other biographer or researcher report this
Saipan visit. It was certainly possible when GP returned from China
to the US by early 1945 that he could have stopped off at Saipan. In
fact he did stop or his squadron was at Tinian.

     Importance? If GP did stop in 1944, that search would indicate
he may have given some credence to a Japanese capture as by then
stories of her survival there were published, and the "Flight to
Freedom" had been released in which GP had some role in the script.
GP never reported that visit as far as I can tell in subsequent books.

    Thus I am asking the forum, if anyone has found any reports ,
documents,etc, that GP did drive around Saipan looking for Earhart
evidence. (Maybe he should have diverted to Niku!)

LTM,
Ron Bright
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:20:20
From:         George Werth
Subject:      Look Alikes

Re: Look alikes on the 2007 Niku Crew

Tom Roberts and Tom King sure look like peas from the same pod!
There definitely is a resemblance between Josh and Ric Gillespie.
And if one rearranges the hair on Ric's head putting in on lower facial
areas Ric could join the club the two Tom's.

George Werth
TIGHAR Member # 2630