Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:07:01 From: Ron Bright Subject: Re: Grace McGuire and Howland For Jackie Tharp, Grace it turns out is a long time fascinating character in the Earhart saga. Her biography is on WILDERNET.ORG. Her goal may be somewhat unrealistic but nevertheless an interesting story in goal setting. Like Linda Finch and Ann Pellegreno, she wants to do it her way, but with an original 10E. A photo of her appears in her bio standing on Howland Island, with two flags, in 1986. No she didn't fly there, but flew into the Gilberts and ferried over with an Army Corp of engineers. I asked if anyone has done a bio on her, and so far, no. It seems to me that she has become more friendly now then in years past. She might even let Tighar look inside the "Muriel" her 10E. Ron Bright ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:23:27 From: Tom King Subject: Re: Grace McGuire and Howland For Ron Bright Ron -- "Wildernet.org" brings up -- for me -- a site with info on hiking in the various states. Am I missing something? How original IS "Muriel?" If its interior hasn't been changed out too much, it would certainly be interesting to take a look at, especially if we come back from the next visit to the island with obscure artifacts from the Carpenter's House. LTM (definitely an original) ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:47:36 From: Tom Doran Subject: Re: Grace McGuire <> Try http://www.wildernetwork.org/Grace.html Tom Doran, #2796 ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 10:50:38 From: Terry Thorgaard Subject: Re: Grace McGuire and Howland Agreed WRT "Muriel" (Grace McGuire's Electra 10E). A selection of pics (interior particularly) of an Electra is really neeeded at the Tighar website. A detailed 3-D diagram would be good too, showing the crew positions, location of fuel tanks (But Muriel's fuel tank layout is probably different than that of the AE Electra, unfortunately), etc. When I began following this endeavor a month or so ago, one thing that puzzled me was the issue of where Noonan could have been located in the cockpit; up front next to AE, or in back somewhere, at the "navigator's position". "Muriel" could help to clear some of that up. ************************************* From Pat I am working on the diagrams as time permits. As I understand it, the 10E Grace owns was badly damaged in a fire and had to be completely rebuilt. It is clear from photos, writings, and so on that Noonan spent the vast majority of his time in the right seat, next to Earhart, only going to the back if he needed to spread out a chart on the table. Pat ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:10:21 From: Ron Bright Subject: Re: Grace McGuire and Howland For Tom King, I gave the wrong web site, It is WILDERNETWORK.ORG. Very interesting, and you will see her standing on Howland with two flags. It gives a bit of history of her restoration of the last remaining 10E. Ric G knows about this Electra, C/N 1042, I believe and its restoraton.As I recall she wouldn't let Ric look inside. Of course she is having trouble getting parts and making new tools, etc . She declined to tell me where the Electra is now, only that her goal is to try the World Flight in 2008. Ron ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:10:46 From: Ron Bright Subject: Re: Grace McGuire and Howland If it seems significant, I can ask McGuire if she has interior photos before the restoration, the type of damage, and what was changed etc., re the configuration. My impression is she wants the "exact" replica of the 10E that Amelia flew, right down to having a PAA navigator! REB ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 19:24:12 From: Hue Miller Subject: Re: Grace McGuire and Howland This is just daydreaming at this point. But i wonder if it would be possible somehow, sometime, to access the plane to set up a temporary, original-like wire antenna on it. This could be light wire, like 28 gauge, so it could be attached to supports maintained non-invasively by duct tape. Then to determine the antenna's actual electrical specs by use of an antenna analyzer ( standard item available as ham radio accessory. ) Those specs might throw some light on the probability of the 'Harmonic Theory'. In fact, i'm thinking, with the "numbers" one could replace the antenna with discrete components at a workbench, and determine the actual power accepted by the antenna at specific harmonic points, either by using a Western Electric transmitter of same type, or a "scaled" model. A spectrum analyzer or Frequency Selective voltmeter would be used to determine the actual harmonic power on the "radiation resistance" component of the antenna. I am just thinking out loud here and fishing for possible yea/ nay comments. -Hue Miller ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 19:24:32 From: Hue Miller Subject: Re: Grace McGuire and Howland Maybe i missed this - but what's the thinking behind the level of secrecy regading the plane? -Hue Miller ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 10:07:07 From: Ron Bright Subject: Re: Grace McGuire and Howland Hue, A good idea, but unlikely McGuire would allow that prior to the flight. I would keep that in mind afterwards, if it really happens, as an experiment. R.Bright ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 21:26:59 From: Ron Bright Subject: Amelia's shoes -- reprise As perhaps unimportant or boring as this is, bear with me. I found an article in the Atchison Daily Globe, dated 12 July 1992, in which Carol Osborne, aviation historian and author, described the "slippers" at the Atchison Historical Museum as size 6. In an article on 10 July, she is pictured examining the pair of slippers in her hands. (The curator must have been more cooperative). The article does not report whether there as a size engraved on the inside of the shoe as Joe Klaas recalls. In a separate conversation, Carol told me she tried them on and believed the size was no more than 6 1/2 because the were "too tight" for her size 6 shoe. The issue came up as Carol was trying to prove that the shoe found on Niku was too big for AE's shoe size, namely. a size 9. Gillespie said he didn't care what size this shoe is as it wasn't necessarily the size of the blucher oxfords AE was wearing.The newspaper also included their dispute over the piece of aluminum found on Niku reportedly from the Electra. It was a real donnybrook! Where does this leave us. Nowhere, because to date no one can authenticate the origin of the shoes. Osborne did not know where they came from. Someday, someone can persuade the curator to check the acquisition card to determine who, when and how the shoes got there! Maybe open the glass case. LTM, Ron B ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 08:25:41 From: Ala Caldwell Subject: Re: Amelia's shoes -- reprise > Someday, someone can persuade the curator to check the > acquisition card to determine who, when and how the shoes got there! > Maybe open the glass case. Ron, if a museum curator will let someone walk into his museum and try on a pair of shoes supposedly from Amelia Earhart I would be absolutely stunned. Alan, the cynic ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:31:42 From: Peter Boor Subject: Re: Amelia's shoes -- reprise Ron and Alan - I know a little about museum work. If a legitimate research group wanting to examine an object is denied, it makes me wonder if the object is really what it is supposed to be. I think we are wasting our time with these "shoes" - pmb. ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 13:45:10 From: Ron Bright Subject: Re: Amelia's shoes, reprise Alan, I don't know if you are referring to todays curator about allowing a person to come in off the street to try on the shoes, but no doubt that Carol, a published Author and aviation historian, did it. Photo has her holding the two shoes, and she had a witness, That was in 1992 when I would guess the topic was hot, and the curator different. Ron ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 13:45:30 From: Ron Bright Subject: Re: Amelia's shoes, reprise Peter Boor, Yes it is a time waster, but a lot of material was based on the size of these shoes! It is a waste of time now. Who knows who shoes they are. It seems to me that somewhere on this planet a pair of AEs blucher oxfords would be around, or any pair of shoes. I only brought up the shoes as one of the many curiosities of AE research. Maybe the next Niku expedition will find a mummified shoe by the 7 site!!! Ron B ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 16:01:56 From: Alan Caldwell Subject: Re: Amelia's shoes, reprise Ron, hardly anything on this subject is a time waster. I suspect every time we revisit an issue we will find something we didn't find before. There is nothing wrong with the shoe issue. We just have some missing information is all. Each time it is brought up there is a chance someone might fill in one or more pieces of that missing information. Alan ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:19:33 From: Mike Piner Subject: Kanton engine I have been thinking about that Engine on Kanton Island. It is pretty sure that that engine is there, so it would be money well spent to get a backhoe, maybe two backhoes, down there, and find that engine. It is sad for that engine to not have it's day in the sun. a 50% chance it is Amelia's Engine. A better percentage that a pair of slippers ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 10:38:34 From: Tom King Subject: Re: Kanton engine For Mike Piner Considering all the airplanes that have passed through Canton, I think saying the engine we've looked for there has a 50% chance of being Earhart's is pretty adventurous. Digging it up would be better than slipper speculation, but not nearly as useful as a number of other things on which we could spend our limited resources. And with the recent creation of the Phoenix Islands Protected Area (PIPA), the requirements for caution to avoid environmental damage have been racheted up to a point at which digging a big hole in Canton might be a pretty complicated undertaking. ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 17:12:38 From: William Webster-Garman Subject: Re: Kanton engine I think the tale's likely sincere enough but mind, the only support for digging up stuff from more or less toxic military dumps on Canton is thoroughly anecdotal. As Tom implies, it's not a lock and an expensive grope for something which might not even be there doesn't seem to be worth the burn. LTM, who didn't like fishing, much. ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 17:14:01 From: Marty Moleski Subject: Re: Kanton engine > From Tom King for Mike Piner > > Considering all the airplanes that have passed through Canton, I > think saying the engine we've looked for there has a 50% chance of > being Earhart's is pretty adventurous. ... Has TIGHAR ever published Art Rypinski's talk on the engine? I think I heard it in 2003. It is a masterpiece of investigative history. For me, it left me persuaded that there is practically no chance that the Canton engine came from Niku. Art's case involved weaving several different threads together. I can't remember all the details but I will never forget the impression it left that Art had covered all the bases. Marty **************************************** So far as I know, the talk exists (existed) in complete form only in Art's fertile brain, not as a paper or even a PowerPoint. Pat ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 08:40:06 From: Art Carty Subject: Re: Kanton engine I agree with Tom and Marty; the Canton engine rumor was effectively demolished by Art in a masterpiece work of investigative reporting. The Other Art (Carty) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 08:52:06 From: Tom King Subject: Re: the Kanton engine > the Canton engine rumor was effectively > demolished by Art in a masterpiece work of investigative reporting. I agree that Arthur's work was masterful, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Canton engine story has been demolished; I'd just say it's been thrown into enough question that I wouldn't invest a lot of scarce resources in pursuing it. We've had enough old abandoned hypotheses come back to life to make me leery of utterly rejecting anything. LTM (who hates feeling rejected) ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 14:02:04 From: Dave Porter Subject: Re: Kanton engine Just to review: (and any errors are my own) TIGHAR member Bruce Yoho who worked for (I think) SAMTEC on Kanton/ Canton back in the 1970's (or 1960's?) claimed to have helicoptered a radial engine found during an island hopping sightseeing expedition to Nikumaroro/Gardner back to Canton/Kanton to tinker with. Sometime after Bruce's departure, the USAF abandoned the island, and "tidied up" by bulldozing a large trench and shoving into it everything that didn't look like the island. TIGHAR visits have found various items of dubious non-toxicity half buried, but no sign of a radial engine. More recently, there was some discussion here on the forum regarding the Kanton engine a year or so ago, whether based on Rypinski's theory or not, I don't recall. Other SAMTEC vets had been unable to corroborate Bruce Yoho's story, but there was some recollection of a radial engine that had come from elsewhere on the island, where there is/was known WW2 aircraft wreckage. Also, much discussion and description of the current state of the USAF dumpsite. I'll trust the opinions of those on this forum whose expertise in the matter far outweighs my own regarding the safety, feasibility, and negotiability of an excavation on Kanton. However, I would like to know if Bruce Yoho is still active on the Forum or in TIGHAR, and if he has any thoughts on the current Kanton Engine Debate. Bruce?..... Pat?..... LTM, Dave Porter, 2288 ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 14:02:28 From: Terry Thorgaard Subject: Re: Kanton engine Is Canton currently inhabited? If so, would it be feasable to offer a small reward for pictures and a serial number? Of course that may be asking for hoax attempts. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 14:03:24 From: Mike Piner Subject: Re: Kanton engine I'm sort of new at discussing these pieces of evidence (potential), and at last Tom King lifts me back up with his > Weve had enough old abandoned hypothesis..., so that if we have to get back to thinking about that land fill down there, overcoming the obstacles on Canton is a task we can do, as the past work by Tighar has demonstrated. At least we got away from those little slippers for a while. Mike Piner LTM , Mother would be still wearing little slippers but her feet grew. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 14:19:44 From: Alan Caldwell Subject: Re: Kanton engine Dave, these are just my thoughts on the subject of the Canton engine. It is certainly a rabbit trail that has not been tracked down. I understand the difficulties in doing so but more important what would that yield? If in fact we go dig up an engine and it is the Electra's power plant what would we have other than a great artifact? We could certainly say with great confidence the plane landed in the Phoenix Islands but we already believe that. We don't know which island the engine came from so where would we search for the rest of the plane? The plus side is that it might yield more supporters for the search, possibly, and, unfortunately, more searchers. It would do in the crashed and sankers unless they could come up with how the engine floated to the surface and beached somewhere. The Marshall folks would find something else to do as would Elgin's team. On the other hand what if we don't find it or it is not the correct engine? what does that cost in time and money versus what we would gain? Ala ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 16:15:16 From: Mike Piner Subject: Re: Kanton engine Well Tighar's hypothisis in essence states that the plane landed on its wheels on an island. That flies in the face of "crashed and sank! SO if th engine is AE's and it didn't float up, then that part of the Hypothisis has to be coloborated by the find. Mike Piner LTM Who loves colaboration ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 22:50:15 From: Marty Moleski Subject: Re: Kanton engine > From Dave Porter in Detroit > > Just to review: (and any errors are my own) > > TIGHAR member Bruce Yoho who worked for (I think) SAMTEC on Kanton/ > Canton back in the 1970's (or 1960's?) claimed to have helicoptered > a radial engine found during an island hopping sightseeing > expedition to Nikumaroro/Gardner back to Canton/Kanton to tinker > with. Sometime after Bruce's departure, the USAF abandoned the > island, and "tidied up" by bulldozing a large trench and shoving > into it everything that didn't look like the island. TIGHAR visits > have found various items of dubious non-toxicity half buried, but > no sign of a radial engine. I think that's the gist of the story. Two wrinkles: the engine was said to have been moved out to a dump when some brass were coming on inspection. The discovery that the trash site had been bulldozed took place when TIGHAR sent a team to inspect the engine: http://www.tighar.org/TTracks/14_1/Kanton_Mission.html In August, 2003, Art Rypinski gave his talk on the subject. He had logbooks, photos, SAMTEC timelines, and a witness from the SAMTEC era (if I remember correctly). It looks as though Art gave TIGHAR a copy of his PowerPoint presentation. I have an index to a CD that he did in 2004 that mentions the Powerpoint show. I suppose that I may also have the CD itself somewhere at home, although I don't remember looking at it (I'm in Oregon for a week visiting with some of my family, so I can't scour my CD collection). These were some of the elements of Art's talk: -- facts about Bruce Yoho's time in the region -- mileages from one island to another -- gas required by helicopters of that era -- methods used to refuel helis that visited Gardner -- patterns of activity on the base The existence of the engine was supported by what Art found, I think. The likelihood that it could have come from Niku, given the distance from Kanton and the problems of the helicopters burning too much fuel carrying it from Niku to Kanton made it seem most reasonable to think that the engine came from a different wreck on a more accessible island. Art suggested that the C-47 on Sidney was a more likely source than AE and FN on Niku. Marty ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 22:55:45 From: Jim Novinger Subject: Re: Amelia's shoes -- reprise Are there any TIGHAR members living on Okinawa? I was stationed in the Navy detachment at Kadena Air Base in the 1986-89 timeframe. The local DOD elementary school that my children attended was named for AE. I recall a display case at the school containing artifacts allegedly belonging to AE (including my extremely vague recollection of a shoe). Perhaps someone living on Okinawa could visit the school to see if the display is still there and what information it may yield if providence can be established. LTM, (who really enjoyed that duty station) JIM N. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:40:24 From: Don Jordan Subject: Re: Kanton engine I just had to jump in here for a couple of comments. I did extensive research on the Canton engine back about 8 years ago. I was able to locate one for sure, and I think there was another, pilot who vividly remembers seeing the engine in the shop where Bruce said it was. He was the first to tell me that the engine could not have come from Gardner for the very reason listed below, (i.e., fuel, distance, rarely went there anyway, etc. etc.). However, I found a second pilot who also found another engine in the coral on another island. He could not remember the name of the island, but it was one of those that the SAMTEC people often visited. He drew a map of the island as he remembered seeing it from the air. And, pointed out where the engine was found. As far as he knows that engine has never been moved. He did say that he visited the site of the crashed C-47, and saw those engines as well. He was adamant that the engine in the coral was not from the C-47. I have since lost his name, but still have his hand drawn map of where that second engine is located. I did a lot of research on that engine story, and collected a lot of the pilot's names who were there flying the helicopters. Some I found and interviewed, but others I was never able to locate. That second engine in the coral has always intrigued me, but to my knowledge nobody has ever gone to look for it. Don J. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:59:54 From: Simon Ellwood Subject: Re: Kanton engine > From Don Jordan > He could not remember the name of the island, but it was one of > those that the SAMTEC people often visited. He drew a map of the > island as he remembered seeing it from the air. Don - were you able to deduce from the shape, or perhaps get an idea of which island the drawing was of? ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:00:11 From: Alan Caldwell Subject: Re: Kanton engine Don, from the hand drawn map what would be your best guess as to which island it was? Alan ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:00:26 From: Tom King Subject: Re: Kanton engine Now that you remind us, I remember your research, but don't think I've ever seen the map. Can you share it? Thanks, and LTM, who never wants a clue to go unchecked. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:05:03 From: Don Jordan Subject: Re: Kanton engine At this late date I have no memory of attaching a name to the island. But the shape is unique with several landmark references. If I could see a picture of each of the Phoenix island from the air, I'm sure I could pick this particular one out. I do know the shape of Niku, and it was definitely not that one. Don J. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 11:34:11 From: Dan Postellon Subject: Re: Kanton engine Satellite photos of most of them are on line at Wikipedia, and also at the NASA websites. Dan Postellon TIGHAR#2263 > From Don Jordan > At this late date I have no memory of attaching a name to the > island. But the shape is unique with several landmark > references. If I could see a picture of each of the Phoenix > island from the air, I'm sure I could pick this particular one > out. I do know the shape of Niku, and it was definitely not that > one. Don J. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 20:51:42 From: Peter Boor Subject: Article All TIGHARs should get the latest Invention & Technology (Summer 2007 Vol 23 No 1) and read Tom Crouch's article on "Searching for AE". The article's last paragraph is quite telling, coming from someone in Tom's position ... pmb. ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 22:41:19 From: Randy Jacobson Subject: Re: Article I found the magazine online, but not this edition. Can you synopsize what Tom Crouch said in his last paragraph? ======================================================================== Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 23:13:50 From: Dennis McGee Subject: Re: Searching for AE Peter Boor said: "All TIGHARs should get the latest Invention & Technology (Summer 2007 Vol 23 No 1) and read Tom Crouch's article on "Searching for AE". The article's last paragraph is quite telling, coming from someone in Tom's position ... pmb." Hmmm, the last I heard Mr. Crouch was NOT a fan of the Niku Theory. Has he flipped on us? I now have two splendid mysteries for this weekend; what happens to Tony Soprano and what did Tom Crouch say. LTM, an occasional acrobat herself Dennis O. McGee #0149 ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 08:47:06 From: Don Jordan Subject: Re: Kanton engine Tom, I looked at a few photos on the web tonight of the islands in the Phoenix group. It appears that Endurbery is the most likely one. The map has a scale that indicates the island to be about 3.5 miles long, shaped like an hourglass, and aligned north and south. It shows two shipwrecks on the eastern shore, and the engine is situated on the very southern tip. The SAMTEC site was in the middle where the island narrows, and appears to be more or less on the western side. If you need a copy let me know how best to get it too you. Don J. ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 09:12:19 From: Alan Caldwell Subject: Re: Kanton engine That's interesting, don. If I'm not mistaken that's the same island Noonan underlined on his map for the first attempt westward. Alan ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 09:30:47 From: Tom King Subject: Re: Kanton engine Thanks, Don. I'd definitely like to see the map. You can fax it to 240-465-1179 or send it as an attachment to email to tfking106@aol.com. Tom ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 23:29:28 From: Ross Devitt Subject: Re: Kanton engine Just a few snippets about Enderbury: The last guano ships were recorded as going there from Honolulu in February and March, 1877. The supply ship, Joseph Woolley, discontinued its calls there in July, 1877. The John T. Arundel Company made use of Enderbury for a while during the 1880's. They found a horse and a mule which had been abandoned on the island by the American company, (had to be abandoned no later than July 1877) and used the mule to pull the tram cars. (This suggests the animals survived for at least 4 years.) On March 3rd, 1938, Enderbury, like Canton, was placed under the U.S. Department of the Interior, by administrative order of President Franklin D. Roosevelt. The American colonist landed here from the U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Taney and established their camp there on March 6, 1938. For the next fifty years or more, Enderbury Island was under the joint control of America and Great Britain. I imagine if there was an aircraft wreck in mid 1937, the remains would still be recognisable in March 1938 when the Americans were supposed to have landed colonists. If a horse and a mule (with their food and particularly water requirements) survived in good enough condition to be put to work after being abandoned for upwards of 4 years, it is possible that had our friends landed there, they might have hung on for 0 months and been found. Also, Pat & Ric, if you don't already know about it, this stuff related to Maude may interest you: http://www.adelaide.edu.au/library/special/maude.html and to a lesser extent, this, about Arundel: (The Bureau has now finished microfilming an extensive series of correspondence files of the Pacific Phosphate Co Ltd and its predecessors, 1892-1919, on loan from the National Archives of Australia, amounting to 94 rolls of microfilm. (See report on p.10.) Private papers of the family of J.T. Arundel, held by Mr Anthony Aris in London, were microfilmed for the Bureau earlier this year thanks to the help of Natalie Owen.) Dorothy Crozier's papers documenting her research work in Tonga and Fiji, as well as her administration of the Central Archives of Fiji and the Western Pacific, have now been microfilmed by the Bureau. _____________________ PACIFIC PHOSPHATE RECORDS ON MICROFILM John T Arundel, son of a LMS official, was born in England in 1841. His early work for a London firm with interests in guano, or phosphate, took him into the Pacific. By 1892 Arundel had formed his own company, J.T. Arundel & Co, which had acquired concessions over a number of islands in what is now Kiribati -- Kanton, Enderbury, Gardner, Hull, Flint and Manra (Sydney) -- to plant coconuts, make copra and mine phosphate. http://rspas.anu.edu.au/pambu/newsletters/Pambu17June2004.html#PACIFIC_PHOSPHATE_RECORDS_ON_MICROFILM Neither are about Earhart, but these people pop up regularly. For anyone who doesn't know what "The Bureau" is, some years ago some people at the Australian National University got together and began what seemed to be an impossible task. They decided to microfilm every available surviving document, diary and written record relating to the Pacific Islands. The tem became known as the Pacific Islands Manuscripts Bureau. The work continues and they are amassing vast quantities of material. Much is copied and returned to its original source. The idea is to have a complete indexed record of the Pacific Islands, history, traditions, development, culture, politics and economics. They published a short report on the interest of TIGHAR in these islands some years ago in their magazine. Th' WOMBAT ======================================================================== Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 23:29:57 From: Ross Devitt Subject: Re: Kanton engine Just a quick note on my previous post. One of the driving forces behind the establishment of the Pacific Manuscripts Bureau was Harry Maude. Th' WOMBAT ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:33:56 From: Don Jordan Subject: Re: Kanton engine For Dr. King, I hoping that by now you have had the opportunity to study the map I FAXED to you. Sorry for the late hour. I hope the FAX machine was not by your bed! A thought occurred to me last night . . .I know it's a rarity, but it does happen! It's possible that the engine on my map is the same engine that Bruce Yoho found. I don't recall if the person who drew the map knew Bruce. So they may have spotted the same engine, only at different times. Bruce did say that they had made a helicopter drop at a SAMTEC site, and were just lifting off for the return trip. Don J. ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:07:47 From: Alan Caldwell Subject: Re: Kanton engine Don, would it be too much to ask you to FAX me a copy of your map? 512-321-8060. Alan ======================================================================== Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:00:41 From: Rick Jones Subject: Re: Kanton engine Aras Mardosa, a contemporary of Bruce Yoho, has posted a partial view aerial photo of Enderbury Is on Google Earth. To view it, the layer "Panaramio" under Geographic Web must be checked, and it will be pinned to Enderbury. Google Images also has an assortment of photos and charts of Enderbury. Rick Jones, 2751 ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:59:48 From: Jerry Hamilton Subject: Interesting map Recently I stumbled across an interesting map related to the Earhart flight. It's a 1936 pacific ocean map by National Geographic. It is on their website as indicated below: http://www.ngmapcollection.com/ (Go to Oceans category. Go to Pacific Ocean Map 1936.) blue skies, JHam (2128) ======================================================================== Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:11:25 From: Dennis McGee Subject: Re: Interesting map JHam said: "Recently I stumbled across an interesting map related to the Earhart flight. It's a 1936 pacific ocean map by National Geographic. It is on their website as indicated below:" Interesting indeed. In drawing a straight line from Howland to Gardner you also pass the eastern tip of Baker Island, which would lead some to believe that AE might have ended up there. Obviously the designations on the map contain whatever errors existed at the time it was made, but nonetheless, the direct route from Howland to Gardner is perilously close to Baker. LTM, who fears perils but loves pearls Dennis O. McGee #0149EC ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 07:02:44 From: Don Iwanski Subject: Re: Interesting map From Don Iwanski Even more interesting map: This photo is on the Purdue Website. http://www.e-southerndata.com/earhart/intendedroute_1.htm ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 07:03:29 From: Mike Piner Subject: Earhart in National Geographic I found a feature of Amelia in the January 1998 issue of National Geographics. Some nice pictures, some I have not seen before. The author is Virginia Morell. There is a pair of "slippers" or shoes on page 124. On page 128 there is a picture of Howland Island the caption states that "from 1000 feet Howland Island looks like a pumpkin seed....", seen in the pic is another Electra. LTM Mike P ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:29:45 From: Dennis McGee Subject: Maps and pumpkin seeds Mike Piner said: "The author is Virginia Morell. On page 128 there is a picture of Howland Island the caption states that "from 1000 feet Howland Island looks like a pumpkin seed....". Ah, yes, well that explains it. Everybody knows what a pumpkin seed looks like, right? I think Ms. Morell, if she is alive, needs to work on her similes. LTM, who is all smiles Dennis O. McGee #0149EC ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:11:52 From: William Webster-Garman Subject: Re: Maps and pumpkin seeds Truth be told, I think most of NG's readership likely does know a pumpkin seed when they see one and it rather looks like a pumpkin seed to me. LTM, who had them roasted, with plenty of salt (like Itascatown). ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:00:10 From: Alan Caldwell Subject: Re: Maps and pumpkin seeds > From Dennis O. McGee > > Mike Piner said: "The author is Virginia Morell. On page 128 there > is a picture of Howland Island the caption states that "from 1000 > feet Howland Island looks like a pumpkin seed....". > > Ah, yes, well that explains it. Everybody knows what a pumpkin seed > looks like, right? I think Ms. Morell, if she is alive, needs to > work on her similes. You're right, Dennis. I thought it looked like a simile too. alan ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:11:03 From: Jim Tierney Subject: Re: Maps and pumpkin seeds Pat--Dennis-Alan-- Re --pumpkin seeds What does a pumpkin seed look like???? Growing up on the streets of Brooklyn--we didn't see many pumpkins and very few seeds...... Even at Halloween----The pumpkins were mostly plastic or papier mache and they didn't have NO seeds..... All you farmers/rural people out there may know--but some of us dont....... Poor choice of words for a comparison... Jim Tierney ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:18:27 From: Terry Thorgaard Subject: Re: Maps and pumpkin seeds The pumpkin seed metaphor would, one would think, first-and-foremost be an effort to describe the apparent size. If you hold a pumpkin seed in your hand at perhaps two feet from your eye, the seed would have a certain apparent size. The author of the metaphor might also have figured that the island also had the appearance of a pumpkin seed, but on the apparent size issue, the caption would have been very misleading. When one looks at Howland Island on Google Earth with the "elevation" set at 1.000 feet, Howland more than fills the screen. As a matter of fact, it hardly fits within the screen at 10,000 feet. ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:18:58 From: Mike Piner Subject: Howland pumpkin patch For Alan and Dennis Tongue in cheek remarks are great, but the picture was a real good shot of Howland I from 1000 feet elevation, very visible from say four or five miles away, real clear day. The author was not there, just looking at the picture, in1997 there about. It shows an Island that has now grown vegetation, and no longer an airstrip. This piece had a shot of some shoes, but no explanation for them. This could be thread material, no pun intended. I read about another writeup in NG feb 2004, but can't find my copy, does anyone know what it is about? ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:19:35 From: Gary LaPook Subject: Re: Maps and pumpkin seeds You mean you never ate a box of pumpkin seeds when you were a kid? gl > From William Webster-Garman > > Truth be told, I think most of NG's readership likely does know a > pumpkin seed when they see one and it rather looks like a pumpkin > seed to me. > > LTM, who had them roasted, with plenty of salt (like Itascatown). ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:19:59 From: Ted Campbell Subject: Re: Interesting map To Don Iwanski That is an interesting map and your notes seem to make some sense. Do you think the two lines you show running from somewhere west of Howland (I can't make out the point of intersection) to Hawaii are a great circle plot and a rhumb line plot of the same course? Unless the map that AE and FN are viewing is an early (way before the flight) planning map why would someone plot a path through the Phoenix Islands where there were no airports. When AE suggested the US build an airport on Howland could she also have suggested one be built somewhere in the Phoenix group - an either/or proposal? Although the National Geographic map is not one you would use to navigate by it sure would be neat to know if FN had it along on the flight. If so, he surely would have had more detail on what was south of Howland than what I have been lead to believe. My belief was formed by rationalizing why none of the post loss messages indicated an island by name, the theories by others - not TIGHAR - that FN turned north once they failed to find Howland, that he may have used a north offset in his navigation (clearly out in the middle of the ocean) rather than one south, etc. Good mind games! ======================================================================== Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:51:00 From: William Webster-Garman Subject: Re: Maps and pumpkin seeds Gary LaPook wrote > You mean you never ate a box of pumpkin seeds when you were a kid? > > gl Haha! Here's the drill then, at Halloween all the grocery stores had big stacks of orange pumpkins out front, my mother would bring two or three home and we would gleefully... 1) Cut a circular "hatch" around the stem, which could then be lifted off like a lid.. 2) This exposed the wonderfully tactile goop (pulp) inside which was riddled with pumpkin seeds. 3) We picked out the seeds. 4) We threw away the pulp (yeah, everyone knew one could make pumpkin pie from it but I guess filling from a can seemed so much easier back then). 5) While we kids went after the pumpkins with carving knives, mom spread the seeds on a cookie sheet and roasted them to a crisp. 6) Candles went into the pumpkins, the pumpkins went into windows and on the front porch. 7) We munched the crunchy pumpkin seeds, which I must say looked spot on like Howland island from about 35,000 feet... browned, flattened and oblongish with fringing sides. I mean, if one's not familiar with something referred to in passing by a writer, maybe the writer's not to blame. Either way, I still think that a majority of National Geographic's readership during the 1990s would have known what a pumpkin seed looks like. LTM, who had a gourd time back in the day. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:50:31 From: Don Iwanski Subject: Re: Interesting map To Ted Campbell I haven't a clue what to make of those lines. With the exception of the arrow, I figure it's a wind triangle and shows the direction of flight. I was looking for a picture of Fred's watch of all things when I came across the photo. Noticing the markings, one things led to another. I expected to see some navigational calculations, but there are none. Just some lines. I'm not sure how reliable this photo is or how Purdue came into possesion of it, it is what it is. This photo reference's Joe Klass and Amelia Earhart Lives, the photo in the book is too grainy to see those lines. No reason to keep it for myself. ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 19:45:29 From: Dan Postellon Subject: Re: Maps and pumpkin seeds Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) I used to get mine pre-salted in a little orange cardboard box at the candy counter. Think round or oval, but not very. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:23:03 From: Mike Piner Subject: Measuring the shoe Others may have seen this photo already. type in this site to see AE standing on a work stand with a mechanic in front of the port engine of the Electra. There are measureable objects to get a good shoe measurement. http://earchives.lib.purdue.edu/edm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/ earhart&CISOPTR=229&CISOBOX=1&rec=20 An easier route to the picture is www.lib.purdue.edu/spcol/ aearhart/rights.html then look for links to pictures. ******************************** Mike, please see http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Bulletins/29_ShoeFetish1/29_ShoeFetish1.html http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Bulletins/31_ShoeFetish2/31_ShoeFetish2.html http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Bulletins/48_ShoeFetish3/48_ShoeFetish3.html Pat ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:09:08 From: Eric Beheim Subject: AE's radio communications The July 2007 Issue of MONITORING TIMES has an article by Arthur R. Lee (WF6P) on AE's radio communications and has many good things to say about Ric's book (particularly those sections dealing with the radio communications.) LTM (who is still waiting for the audio book version to come out) Eric