Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:27:45
From:         Ted Campbell
Subject:      Re: What was that sound?

Let's modify your crash scenario just a little:  If Fred was as
injured as is speculated from Betty's Notebook and the only way into
the plane was from the hatch above the pilot seat - your scenario
that the plane lost a gear and outboard wing thus jamming the side
fuselage door, may present a problem.

For Fred to report that the water was knee high and he wanted out
seems to me that he had to be in the aft cabin.  For someone as
injured as we speculate Fred was, climbing over the tanks, etc., to
get into the back from the front would have been a real task.  On the
other hand if the aircraft was disabled as you suggest, less the
jammed main cabin door, it all fits.  In the latter scenario AE was
trying to keep Fred settled down because of the difficulty in
crossing the reef without assistance (on her behalf - injured uncle/
ankle or Fred's behalf - concussion, etc.)  Also supporting the idea
that the main cabin door may have been useable is the comments that
the water was rising in various segments of AE's transmissions, I
would have thought that the sight of the floor near the transmitter
would have been obstructed by the tanks in AE's case.  On the other
hand if Fred was back there he could have advised AE.

With regard to AE talking to FN and FN answering back while
transmitting; if FN had earphones in the back wouldn't it be possible
that as AE held down the transmit key/button FN would also hear her
transmit and when she heard a reply the only way to ask FN if he
heard it was to depress the mic button? (modern day intercoms
notwithstanding)

I know that all this speculation must be driving Ric nuts.  However,
it keeps the forum going and little by little it may present another
side hypothesis on what the "Post loss messages" were all about.

Ted Campbell
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:28:51
From:         Dennis Mcgee
Subject:      Re: Audio book

Pat said:  "We are talking about the prospect of an audio book with
the Press.  Nothing firm yet."

And it would be voiced by . . . James Earl Jones???  Or Jim Neighbors
("Goooolleee, Miss Amelia, ya shure got yourself into a big ole' hog
wallow this time . . . ")

I'd be curious to see how a audio book would work out.  "Finding
Amelia" is pretty dense with facts and on several occasions I found
myself referring back to earlier passages, maps, charts etc.  On an
audio book I'd be afraid of loosing the listener.

LTM, who once was lost but now is found
Dennis O. McGee #0149EC

******************

Read by Ric, which is what would make it possible -- no fee to pay.

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:29:38
From:         Hue Miller
Subject:      Re: What was that sound?

(RG) If it is not credible for AE to have the push-to-talk engaged while
she is talking to Fred, and if it is not credible that Fred's voice
can be heard if he is not speaking directly into the mic, then
Betty's entire reported experience is not credible and we must
presume that either Betty made the whole thing up or stumbled upon a
hoax perpetrated by someone whose transmitting facilities did not
present the problems that make Betty's report incredible.

(HM) I am actually not going to any conclusion whatever at this time.
( Surprise!) Maybe i have even learned something in the years
of reading here, ha ha. I just wish to point out what seems to a
troubling seemingly contradictory part of the logbook account.

(RG) As far as I know, we have no information about what kind of
microphone Earhart was using, other than that it was necessarily
constrained by the limits of the technology available in 1937.

(HM) Strictly speaking, this is true, if you mean the EXACT model.
I suggest that the AE microphone would be quite similar to the
ones still commonly found from just a few years later, when war
production produced many more thousands. I suggest the fairly
common Navy and USAAF type RS-38 for comparison: a
carbon  (carbon granule) type with push-to-talk button. I no longer
have the books before me, but doesn't one of the texts we
mentioned here some years back now, even have a low-resolution
photo of the Western Electric original ? Anyway,they are nothing
special. They do not have high sensitivity in the usual vintage
radio transmitter i am familiar with: you have to speak pretty
emphatically and right close up to the microphone.

>( HM ) Reminder, you cannot transmit and receive at same time.

>(RG)  Do we know that to be true?  The transmitter and receiver do not
>appear to have shared the same antenna.  The two systems seem to have
>been totally separate.  There were even two batteries.

(HM) I think the other radio enthusiasts here may  back me up: even when
listening on a different band than the transmitter is working on - say in
this picture, AE listening for "AM broadcast band" signals, while the
transmitter is set to 6210, a transmitter of this power level could
at best,  de-sensitize the receiver, and at worst, completely
block it, by "overloading" the lowlevel, small-signal amplifiers in the
receiver.  I think the degree of de-sense is kind of unpredictable at this
time. Now, i don't recall the complete wiring diagram any more, but i am
pretty sure the setup was in any case wired to silence the receiver while
transmitting. That would be a safety measure of sorts, both to protect
the receiver from damage from too-high antenna input, even from its
own dedicated antenna in proximity to the transmit antenna; and to protect
the hearing of the user.

Now re the post discussing "wobbly" PLS heard. The phenomena the
poster mentioned are present, i think, because of the wavelength
of the current air band, about  2.5 meters ( for say, 120 MHz ), together
with the prop length on the craft he mentioned, and the antenna position,
compared to much longer wavelength of about 48 meters for the 1937,
6210 channel. I don't think there's a propagation phenomenon that covers this,
for the presumed distance & route & frequency involved.  Today, "wobbly" would
incline one to think of frequency instability, but that wouldn't seem to apply
to this specific PLS ( "post loss signal" )  case.  When i read "wobbly", it
makes me think of some transmitter problem, like its power fluctuating?
Bad connection? Something touching the antenna? I'm afraid this text
will remain a mystery a little longer. Aren't descriptions like "wobbly"
maddening?  -Hue Miller
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:51:16
From:         Hue Miller
Subject:      AvWeek review

Book Review in Aviation Week and Space Technology, 1/29/2007, p. 70.
Reviewed by Pierre Sparaco.

-----------------------------------------------------------

In 1932, Amelia Earhart became one of the most admired women in the
U.S. after completing the first solo crossing of the Atlantic by a
woman, five years after Charles Lindbergh's historic flight to Le
Bourget.

Her quest for celebrity -- and publicity for her sponsors -- led her
to a round-the-world flight that ended in disaster. She disappeared,
with navigator Fred Noonan on July 2, 1937, toward the end of an
18-20 hour flight from Lae, New Guinea, to Howland Island, in the
Pacific Ocean.

Flying such a very long distance was within the capabilities of the
Lockheed 10E Electra powered by two 600-hp. Pratt & Whitney S3H1
engines. The robust aircraft, which had a 4,100-4,500-naut.-mi.
maximum range with 1,200 gal. of fuel on board, had been designed by
Lloyd Carlton Stearman and was later enhanced by Clarence L. (Kelly)
Johnson and W.C. Nelson.

Earhart the woman continues to be part myth, part legend, obscured by
opaque mystery. The aviatrix and her seasoned navigator may have
crashed and sunk in the ocean although, in the absence of evidence,
others believe that the intrepid aviators may have landed, for
example on reef-flat Gardner Island. Aircraft wreckage reportedly was
seen there in 1930 and remains of a human skeleton, a sextant box and
parts of shoes were collected at the site. The next year, the
exhibits were sent for analysis to Suva, Fiji, where they were
unfortunately lost.

Ric Gillespie, executive director for the International Group for
Historic Aircraft REcovery, does not offer a new track, but his solid
work is nevertheless an important addition to the long list of
previously published books on the unsolved Earhart mystery.

This tome marks the first time that the search efforts are
methodically detailed, including radio and Morse code communications.
In the late 1930s, search and rescue techniques were far from
sophisticated and efficient. Moreover, multiple radio problems and
failures are among the most important missing parts of the giant,
still-incomplete puzzle. To add to the complications, Earhart and
Noonan were not proficient in radio matters, or Morse code, and the
overloaded Electra probably lost a belly antenna during its long
takeoff roll.

Gillespie meticulously explains, using reliable sources, how
unintelligible voice transmissions, distress calls, and other
messages, most probably including hoaxes, contributed over several
days and nights to the belief that Earhart and Noonan were calling
for help. In the same vein, there was a strong belief, sustained by
ideal weather conditions, that the Electra could float almost
indefinitely.

The book's most attractive feature, beyond the author's impressive
roster of cross-checked material, is the addition of a DVD
reproducing a wide range of previously unpublished documents. They
include Betty Klenck Brown's notebook. The then-teenager was
listening and writing down what she heard on her father's amateur
radio equipment. Her notes "read like a transcript of a modern 911
call."

Gillespie believes that the problems began with Earhart's poor flight
preparation and the U.S. Coast Guard's Itasca's failure to inform the
fliers of flaws their plan to reach their destination. The Electra
most probably came relatively close to Howland Island but no workable
radio communications could be established with the ship, the only
means of rescue within hundreds of miles for several days.

On the afternoon of July 18, 1937, one aspect of the long search was
over. Gillespie's book, however, confirms that the quest for the
truth is ongoing.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:29:53
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Finding Amelia

Ric,
I have been re-reading the book and have been studying the south 
atlantic chart for the flight from Natal to Dakar to try to 
understand  Noonan's navigation on this leg. The chart included on 
the CD, SouthAtlantic.pdf, is cut off at the top about 160 NM north 
of St. Louis at about 19¡ 10' north.  Noonan had made notes of 
navigation aids on the right margin of the chart showing light houses 
etc. Was there a radio beacon on the coast just north of  19=BA 10' 
where the chart is cut off? If so, I would  like information about it.
On pages 41 and 42 you  reference a note passed to AE from Noonan 
recommending a change of heading to "76¡ M"  as footnote 18 to 
chapter 5.  I understand that this is not the second note that 
mentioned the "3:36" heading change. I couldn't find the "76¡M" note 
on the CD and I have not been able to locate it on the Purdue web 
site as mentioned in the footnote. Is it somewhere on the TIGHAR web 
site? If not, can you post it or can I get a copy of it from you?

Back in April 2003 I was analyzing the chart for the flight from OAK 
to Hawaii but only got about halfway at that time I have returned to 
that chart and will post the analysis of the rest of that flight soon.

Gary LaPook
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:49:57
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Re: Finding Amelia

Gary LaPook asks

>The chart included on the CD, SouthAtlantic.pdf, is cut off at the 
>top about 160 NM north of St. Louis at about 19¡ 10' north.  Noonan
>had made notes of navigation aids on the right margin of the chart 
>showing light houses etc. Was there a radio beacon on the coast 
>just north of  19¡ 10' where the chart is cut off? If so, I would
>like information about it.

The notation for "Nouakchott Tower 29 ft" with flashing red and white 
lights is the last navigational aid noted on the chart heading north 
up the coast.  No indication of a radio beacon anywhere up that way.
In fact, there's not much of anything up that way until you get to 
the Canary Islands.

>On pages 41 and 42 you  reference a note passed to AE from Noonan 
>recommending a change of heading to "76¡ M"  as footnote 18 to 
>chapter 5.  I understand that this is not the second note that 
>mentioned the "3:36" heading change. I couldn't find the "76¡M" 
>note on the CD and I have not been able to locate it on the Purdue 
>web site as mentioned in the footnote. Is it somewhere on the 
>TIGHAR web site? If not, can you post it or can I get a copy of it 
>from you?

I'll send you a jpg of it in a separate email.

Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:30:42
From:         Chuck Buzbee
Subject:      Carbon mics and headphones

A possible explanation of the earphone/mic situation concerns the
configuration of earphones of the era. The cord to the earphones made
a "Y" about a foot before connecting to the individual phones. The
phones were attached to the headband such that they could be rotated
360 degrees. A common practice for two people to listen at the same
time was to turn the phones facing outward so that each could use one
phone.

True, the carbon element microphones were not very sensitive, They
were the same as used on telephones for many years, at least through
the fifties. A person within six or so inches could be heard.

If AE was holding one earphone to her right ear and the other to FN's
left ear and the microphone clutched in one of her hands, it would be
possible for her to be accidentally also keying the mic. Of course,
neither would hear anything during this time.

The injuries both sustained are indicative of a sudden stop of the
plane. This to me lends support to Ric's landing gear failure scenario.

C. A. Buzbee
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 14:58:02
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Re: What was that sound?

Hue Miller wrote:

>I am actually not going to any conclusion whatever at this time.
>( Surprise!) Maybe i have even learned something in the years
>of reading here, ha ha. I just wish to point out what seems to a
>troubling seemingly contradictory part of the logbook account.

We've all learned to be cautious, and that's a good thing.  Lots of
things in the Earhart drama are troubling - in fact, seem to make no
sense at all - until you have more information.  We have to keep
reminding ourselves how much we don't know about what was in that
airplane and what circumstance the various people were operating under.

For example, it has always bothered me that Lambrecht seemed to blow
off the "signs of recent habitation" he saw at Gardner.  But only
recently I was able to review a rare copy of "Get Underway!", an
informal history of the Colorado's Earhart search written by several
crew members after the ship's return to the west coast.  It turns out
that the Colorado's pilots "knew" that all of the islands of the
Phoenix Group were inhabited by native work parties and white
overseers.  Bingo.  Something that seemed odd suddenly becomes
perfectly understandable.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 17:15:13
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Mic buttons

I think anyone who doesn't understand how one could accidentally hold
down a mic button during a crisis... hasn't been there.

LTM, who had a grip

William Webster-Garman
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 18:16:53
From:         Ron Bright
Subject:      Re: Carbon mics and headphones

For Mike E.

    In the 8th Edition, Mike Everett, wrote an extremely
comprehensive analyis of the radio equipment, receivers,
transmitters, antenna,s microphones ect aboard the Electra;. Far past
me to understand the receive/transmit simultaneously . So I wonder if
Mike could give us an expert's opinion.
    I was under the impression that the receiver was on the fritz
from Lae on to Howland, except for the possible reception of the 7500
apparently picked up by her loop antenna.
LTM,
Ron B.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:23:55
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: Mic buttons

Ron, there is a contention that the belly antenna was ripped off
during tale off as evidenced by a small puff of smoke in the known
video. Jeff was unable to see the antenna in his enhancement of the
video lending more support to the idea. There are two other
suggestions for the puff that I know of. One hitting a puddle and
two, a small charge set off designating 500 feet to go. Ripped off is
leading because of a length of wire supposedly found on the field
after take off.

Clearly, the radio reception problem could have been a broken
receiver or simply a radio range and reception problem.

William Webster-Garman wrote:

>I think anyone who doesn't understand how one could accidently hold
>down a mic button during a crisis... hasn't been there.

Particularly when something we won't mention is extremely puckered.

Alan
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 2007 08:10:21
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Electra interior

What Fred had to navigate over (and no, I don't mean AE or the Pacific).

http://www.americaslibrary.gov/aa/earhart/aa_earhart_atlantic_1_e.html

PS: That website caption and the picture name are wholly wrong, pls
ignore them.

LTM, who knew her way through a tight spot or two,
William Webster-Garman
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 2007 13:18:33
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Re: Electra interior


William Webster-Garman wrote:

>What Fred had to navigate over (and no, I don't mean AE or the
>Pacific).

http://www.americaslibrary.gov/aa/earhart/
aa_earhart_atlantic_1_e.html

That photo was taken sometime between October 1936 and March 1937 -
probably closer to the earlier date.

AE is showing us the receiver for her new Bendix Radio Compass.
Another element of the system was a loop antenna on top of the cabin
that was covered by a streamlined fairing. You can see the cable
going from the back of the receiver up to the underside of the
antenna mount in the ceiling in back of AE's head.  The third element
in the system was a sense antenna on the belly of the aircraft that
ran aft from the port side pitot tube parallel to the similar antenna
for the airplane's original receiver, the WE 20B under the copilot's
seat, on the starboard side of the belly.  The Radio Compass,
invented by Frederick Hooven, was state-of-the-art and was
essentially a prototype of the Automatic Direction Finder (ADF).
However, it required its own dedicated receiver and, consequently,
added about thirty pounds to the aircraft's empty weight.

During the first week of March 1937, AE decided to replace the Radio
Compass system with the new Bendix Direction Finder.  Although not as
advanced and easy to use as the Radio Compass, the new Bendix device
used a small "coupler" to permit the operation of a conventional loop
antenna with the aircraft's existing receiver, thus saving the weight
of the separate unit AE is pointing to in the photo.  The faired loop
over the cabin was replaced by the large Bendix MN-5 rotatable loop
over the cockpit that has become such a distinctive part of the
Earhart Electra's image.  The sense antenna along the port side of
the belly remained in place, probably because it was light and didn't
create enough drag to be worth bothering with.  Both belly antennas
were wiped out in the Luke Field crash, as was the mount from which
the trailing wire antenna was deployed.  When the airplane was
repaired, only the starboard side belly antenna was replaced.

Fred Hooven later wrote that Earhart's decision to replace his Radio
Compass with the lighter "old fashioned" DF loop was responsible for
her failure to find Howland Island.

Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:22:28
From:         Alfred Henrickson
Subject:      Re: Electra interior

I read the Hooven Report a few years ago. I'm not an expert in this  area,
and I can't remember much of what was in the report. Hooven thought (as Ric
states), that her switching to the DF loop was responsible for her failure
to locate Howland. Do our radio folks here on the Forum concur with Hooven's
opinion?

(That interior shot really shows the cramped space they had.)

LTM,

Alfred Hendrickson #2583

**********************************

For those interested, the Hooven Report is on the TIGHAR website at

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Documents/Hooven_Report/
HoovenReport.html

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:23:11
From:         Dale Intolubbe
Subject:      Re: Electra interior

Ric wrote:

>During the first week of March 1937, AE decided to replace the Radio
>Compass system with the new Bendix Direction Finder. Although not as
>advanced and easy to use as the Radio Compass, the new Bendix device
>used a small "coupler" to permit the operation of a conventional loop
>antenna with the aircraft's existing receiver, thus saving the weight
>of the separate unit AE is pointing to in the photo. The faired loop
>over the cabin was replaced by the large Bendix MN-5 rotatable loop
>over the cockpit that has become such a distinctive part of the
>Earhart Electra's image.

Does anyone have a feel for what the tradeoff may
have gained/cost in terms of effect on flight range?
I would assume that Amelia was only looking at the
weight saving.  But trading a faired unit for the
large rotating loop had to exact a penalty in added
drag at some fuel cost.  So was the induced drag due
to the 30 pounds of added weight more or less than the
direct drag of the rotating antenna ( which I suppose
was set edge on for the majority of the flight to
reduce drag...maybe??)

LTM

Dale #2656
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:23:40
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Electra interior

Ric wrote:

>AE is showing us the receiver for her new Bendix Radio Compass.

Thanks so much Ric, I was kinda hoping you'd say what it was. I
thought it looked awfully big and heavy for a simple RF direction
finder, even for 1937, so I was clueless. I was a bit surprised to
see the wrinkles in the fuel tanks in such a spanking new aircraft
interior (we know they were thin and light but nonetheless... not too
significant but one of those interesting little details... hmm
although I glark it's lots of easily workable sheet metal for making
knick knacks, boxes and other artifacts which could stir nutty
aviation archaeologists to scratch their heads half a century later).

One thing is plausible to me anyway, the interior of that aircraft
seems to have been tight enough to induce panic if it got stranded on
a reef flat, heated up like an oven, water lapping below or whatever,
even for reportedly cool-headed and experienced risk takers like AE
and FN.

LTM, who only used aluminium to bake turkeys but still lost her
compass now and then.

William Webster-Garman

PS to Alan: Puckered indeed!
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 2 Feb 2007 16:35:19
From:         Peter Boor
Subject:      Re: Mic buttons

For Alan - tell me about the "small charge set off designating 500
feet to go" as a possible cause of the "puff of smoke in the video".
Peter Boor.

>From Alan Caldwell
>
>Ron, there is a contention that the belly antenna was ripped off
>during tale off as evidenced by a small puff of smoke in the known
>video. Jeff was unable to see the antenna in his enhancement of the
>video lending more support to the idea. There are two other
>suggestions for the puff that I know of. One hitting a puddle and
>two, a small charge set off designating 500 feet to go. Ripped off
>is leading because of a length of wire supposedly found on the
>field after take off.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 2007 10:50:14
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: Mic buttons

Peter, I first came across the comment in the Amelia Earhart
collection at Claremont colleges in Claremont, California just off
route 66 and west of Upland. I did not copy it but did make copies of
Electra performance data of which TIGHAR has a copy.

You will also find a similar comment on page 194 of Elgin Long's book
in which he stated the charge was at the half way point. five hundred
feet remaining, however, makes better sense.

Elgin, for whatever it matters, has the Electra taxiing out about
five minutes before ten. I haven't a clue where he got that.
Background color most likely but it does lend slight support to Doris
Rich who had the plane taking off at 10:20. She claims she can
support that but won't bother to do so as she didn't want to go
through all her research materials.

Lae used block times as did the directive in the Electra operating
manual so I have no trouble believing Earhart "blocked" at ten or
close to it. She then had to taxi slowly (dirt taxiway) to the
northwest end for run up and mag check. The winds were light and
variable and she waited a few minutes until the wind shifted to give
her a slight head wind. All that could not be done and get off by
ten. Ten twenty sounds about right. I've never flown an Electra but
flown many times in a twin beech, the military C-45. you don't just
taxi out and take off. It takes time to taxi and go through the run
up and before take off check list.

All that has little significance of course.

Alan
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 3 Feb 2007 14:15:51
From:         George Werth
Subject:      OT - Flyboys on DVD

Awhile back, there were some posts about the movie "Flyboys."
Windows Media Guide recently sent out this 'blurb' trumpeting
the news that the movie will soon be available on DVD.

http://www.windowsmedia.com/mediaguide/inTheaters/NowonDVD 

George R. Werth
TIGHAR Member #2630

LTM who never saw a DVD in her life
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Feb 2007 10:18:11
From:         Andrew McKenna
Subject:      Searching the Lagoon

Tom King says:

>>A sonar sweep of
>>the entire lagoon bottom would be possible given enough time and
>>money - say, two months and a million bucks. That lagoon is huge.
>
>Very true, and it also ought to be remembered that we HAVE done a
>fair amount of "sounding" the lagoon, with walking and metal
>detecting surveys in the shallows of the north end (from the supposed
>wheel of fortune vicinity east) and diving and magnetometer sweeps in
>the deeper water farther south -- besides dropping Ric in the poop
>from time to time.  I don't have a good guesstimate as to what
>percentage of the lagoon has been systematically looked at -- it's
>certainly not a big percentage, but it's not negligible either, and
>the results have been negative.  Not that stuff hasn't been found; it
>just hasn't been Electra stuff.

Having spent several days at the bottom of the lagoon with Walt and
Van, I thought I'd comment on the above relative to the 2001
expedition.  The team in general did extensive searches on foot of
the shorelines and the "delta" at the entrance to the Lagoon, both
with and without metal detectors.  This included probing with metal
rods to see if we could hit something below the surface.  Any time we
went anywhere along the shore, the search was on, at least  visually.

In addition, the Dive Team mapped out a grid in the NW corner of the
lagoon using re-inflated milk cartons as markers, and conducted an
underwater survey starting at the face of the sand delta across to
within 20 ft or so of the northern shore, and east to Taria Point,
the prominent land feature that sticks out from the northern shore.
The survey was conducted using the 16 ft aluminum boat pulling two
divers in the water on manta boards skimming the bottom.  Visibility
was pretty poor in 2001, often resulting in the two divers not being
able to see each other 4-6 ft away, so the probability of detection
wasn't 100% by any means, but I do feel that we got a good look at
the bottom and if there had been anything within our sight range to
see, we would have seen it.  The only metallic item I remember
finding was a "55 gallon" drum standing upright on the bottom that
looked like it had been filled with concrete with a pole set in it,
which could have been used as a marker for the PBY landing zone
(there is another one farther down the lagoon), or who knows what.
If there was an airplane down there, we would have crashed right into
it just like we crashed into several coral heads that came looming
suddenly out of the gloop.  Walt and I spent most of 9/11/01 on the
bottom of the lagoon silently contemplating the incomprehensible from
one of the remotest spots on the planet.

Looking at the GPS overlay of our survey grid on top of the sat
photo, I'd say we covered about 10% of the lagoon.  Checking the
field notes, we allocated 11.5 man days to diving in the lagoon (of
course not all of that time was on the bottom), or 4.7 % of our time
at Niku, excluding travel time.  As a team, we spent 17.8 man days on
island metal detecting away from the 7 site, or about 7.1% of our
time.  In comparison, we spent 42.7% of our man days at the 7 site,
8.5% excavating suspected grave sites, 8.7% exploring new territory,
8.2% diving on the reef face between the landing channel and the
northern tip, 7.8% on other / misc activities (?), 5.4% on logistics,
4.8% exploring the Village, 1.2% sick days, and 0.8% on experiments.

If we include the magnetometer work that was done on a previous
expedition, the scope of which I don't have a good grip on, previous
lagoon diving and exploration by boat, shallow water work around the
various beaches, etc, all combined we may have searched up to about
20% of the lagoon.

LTM (who prefers her lagoons with better visibility)

Andrew McKenna
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:39:00
From:         Ron Bright
Subject:      July 5 -- wrong date?

     Ever since  Betty's undated notebook surfaced  in 2000, the 
forum has struggled with affixing the most appropriate date 
purporting to reflect the exigent situation described by "Amelia" in 
the notebook.  The time of 10:00 am in the Central Pacific with 
Betty's 4:30 reception in Flordia didn't fit the time the Electra 
could get to Niku on 2 July and thus discarded. However the contents 
could be related to a date thereafter. But when? Ric suggested that 
the Monday, 5th of July was most likely the date.

     A major clue to the date, and probably the most significant,  
was  evident during the very first interviews.  Betty recalled 
clearly that her father came home "after work" about 5:15 and 
listened to some of the on going broadcast. Since that implied a work 
day, Tighar  thought that Sat, 3 July and Sunday, 4 July were 
unlikely days that her father would return from  his work Thus the 
best guess was Monday, the 5th of July,  thought to be a "normal work
day". And that seemed okay.

    But just recently, we discovered in the St Petersburg Times 
newspaper dated Monday, 5 July, that the entire city was observing 
the "Fourth of July" on the 5th of July as a holiday. "All public 
buildings, city hall, Chamber of Commerce, library, banks, stores and 
other places were closed". "Business will be at a virtual standstill 
today..."

     This meant  that in all probability that  Mr. Klenck was not 
working on this holiday, and  the 5th was not likely the date she 
received the signal. Betty's father, according to an investigation at 
St Petersburg  by former Tighar Harry Poole in 2000, was a  Meter 
Reader for Florida Light. [ City Directory]

     Because this was the city's Fourth of July day of celebration we 
reasoned that he was not in all likelyhood working on the 5th. Betty 
didn't mention  any of her family's activities prior to her 
reception, nor where her father may have been working that day. In 
fact I know of no reference to the 4th of July in her interviews.

     We believe that Betty used the conventional use of the phrase 
"coming home from work" meaning his regular day job, reading meters 
at homes. Could Mr. Klenck been helping a neighbor on a project? 
Maybe, but in that case the other dates of 3 and 4 July would have 
the same problem. Namely he could have come home at 5:15 on those 
dates making them candidates too.

     What does this mean? It certainly is not critical  to the Niku 
hypothesis, but  I think the date has to be moved to 6 July or later.
Tides then would have to be reexamined. [ Poole thought the Betty's 
reception could have been as late as 8 July since some of the 
Notebook content was similar to other amateur reports]

      Perhaps a re-interview of Betty might yield a better estimate 
of the date as this significant event did occur on or about the 
"Fourth of July" celebration.

LTM,

Ron Bright
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 5 Feb 2007 15:59:51
From:         Mike Muenich
Subject:      Re: July 5 -- wrong date?

While no longer a member of the Forum, I routinely review the various 
postings.  I noted the recent commentary by Ron Bright re Betty's 
notebook and her father coming home from work at about 5:15.  I 
assume Ric excluded Saturday and Sunday based on his familiarity with
today's environment.  In the early 1930's, the workweek was routinely 
6 days/48 hours and included Saturday.  The 40 hour week wasn't 
established until later in the decade, but not observed by everyone. 

As late as the 1950's my father, a banker, worked Saturdays until 
noon.  It is possible that Betty's father worked until at least noon, 
if not 5:00 on Saturday, July 3rd.  Again, in today's environment, 
Betty, thinking end of work at 5:00, may have assumed 5:15 not 
realizing he may have only worked until noon.  Thus you could have 
two potential times on Sat. July 3rd, 12:15 or 5:15 or anytime in-
between if he stopped along the way.  I presume a check with the 
Florida utility involved could establish the work week in 1937.

=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 14 Feb 2007 10:42:28
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      New Information?

"New primary-source information relative to
what was going on aboard the Itasca has recently come to light.  The
importance of this discovery is similar to the Chater Report in 1991,
the British "Bones file" in 1997, and "Betty's Notebook" in 2000."

This certainly sounds intriguing....is there anything that you can
tell us yet?

Rick J, #2751

********************************************

Not yet. Later this month we hope.

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Feb 2007 10:49:08
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Radio interview

An interview I did for the AeroNews Network is available on-line at

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=fb08de9d-cde1-47cf-957a-ac997deeedaf

Just scroll down to "ANN Special Feature -- Finding Amelia Earhart"

LTM
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Feb 2007 12:19:10
From:         Lee Boyle
Subject:      Re: Radio interview

>http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=fb08de9d-cde1-47cf-957a-ac997deeedaf
 
Ric,

I was not able to find the site you suggested.

Can you help me?

Lee Boyle          2060

************************************

Try this:

Radio Interview

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Feb 2007 12:33:51
From:         Marty Moleski
Subject:      Re: Radio interview

The link didn't come through in Pat's "try this" text.

Here it is again:

<http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=fb08de9d-
cde1-47cf-957a-ac997deeedaf>

If that line word-wraps, you need to cut and paste it back into
one line (I've put the URL in <> to try to stop the word wrap).

Or here is a tiny url that should take you to the right page:

<http://tinyurl.com/39jwmj>

The interviewer let Ric talk and talk and talk.

Well done, Ric!

				Marty

**********************************************

Yeah, I forgot that the Forum server doesn't process links. If you
copy and paste either the full web address or the tiny url into your
browser that should work.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Feb 2007 13:38:08
From:         Jeff Lange
Subject:      Re: Radio interview

What a fantastic interview. I had forgotten how dynamic a speaker
Ric is. Never a pause or an "um" or "ah"-just straight to the point
and filled with concise facts! I highly recommend everyone go and
listen to the interview.

LTM -who wishes she had podcasts!

Jeff Lange #0748C

Ann Arbor, MI.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:03:44
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Body parts?

Well, it seems we have another lead on AE's whereabouts.
   The Dime Museum in Baltimore, which features a collection of
bizarre, weird, stupid, and fake stuff collected from various
carnivals and traveling shows, is set to close in the near future,
according to a story in today's Washington Post.  All items in the
collection will be sold at auction.  One of the more interesting
items they've listed is one of Amelia Earhart's fingers, which in its
mummified condition looks more like a beige Slim Jim than a finger.
The finger was allegedly recovered from a tribe of cannibals on an
unnamed South Pacific island who came into possession of the finger
when its original owner "fell from the sky".  The rest of the noted
flyer, I presume, was served for Sunday dinner some time ago.
   Anyway, if you think this lead is worth pursuing let me know, as
I'm only 20 miles from Baltimore and could probably get the relic at
a reasonable price because we could avoid shipping and handling charges.
   I wish I could print the entire story for you but I don't have a e-
subscription to the paper.

LTM, who's been handled aplenty over the years
Dennis O. McGee #0149EC
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:10:24
From:         Karen Hoy
Subject:      Re: Body parts?

To see a picture of "Amelia Earhart's Finger" go to

http://www.opferauction.com/sales/oaSale_022607_2.php

The finger is #99 at the bottom of the page, so you'll have to scroll
past a number of other objects, the less said about which the better.

LTM (who says pointing any finger isn't nice)
Karen Hoy #2610CE
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 24 Feb 2007 17:11:08
From:         William Webster-Garman
Subject:      Re: Radio interview

Once on the web page one can (right) click on the link and save an
mp3 of the whole interview. The tiny URL from Marty works: http://
tinyurl.com/39jwmj

Ric does wonderfully, giving very succinct historical context on AE
and GP's place in aviation history, the original 1937 search, how
TIGHAR's efforts to find her began 50 years later, the book "Finding
Amelia" (convincingly calling it a real history book), plans for
TIGHAR's next trip to Nikumaroro and pulls the whole thing off
sounding like a regular guy.

LTM, who had a thing for radios,

William Webster-Garman
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:11:17
From:         Rick Jones
Subject:      Re: Radio interview

Wow! Nice job Ric!  There's a lot of meat in this well polished interview, and it
was nice that the interviewer let you talk almost uninterruptedly. This would
be a nice piece to put on the Tighar web site, either with the Amelia
fundraising page, or the home page.  I'll bet AeroNews would be happy to give
permission for the interview to be posted, or at least a link to it.

Rick J #2751
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Feb 2007 15:14:49
From:         Dan Brown
Subject:      The "little clips"

It's been about 4 years since there was much forum discussion of "the
little clips" 2-6-S-03A and 2-6-S-03B. Here is a potentially fresh
assumption: either the number of points (five and four or three and
two, respectively, depending on whether or not the "outside" points
are counted) or the number of notches may be the most important
characteristic that reflects the original use of the pieces. They
look similar to the tally tags of a Gunter's chain used for
surveying. If they were handcrafted surveyor's chain tallies, then
their numbers would be three and two, respectively. Also, they could
serve as makeshift surveying benchties, if attached by their screws
to vertical markers (e.g., trees) for surveying work in areas where
no permanent horizontal position exists to set a benchmark. A Google
Image search for "benchtie" will show modern examples. The New
Zealand surveyors focused on the northwest corner of Gardner. Is
there any information about the circumstances of their recovery or
history of surveying work where they were found that could help to
test this hypothesis for "the little clips"?

Dan Brown, #2408

Daniel R. Brown, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Infectious Diseases and Pathology
Box 110880
University of Florida
Gainesville FL 32611-0880 USA
Phone +1 (352) 392-4700X3975
FAX +1 (352) 392-9704
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:12:24
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Little clips

After surfing the internet for "Gunter's chain", I can buy this as a
hypothesis.  What clinched it for me was a "metal detector's" site
describing similar artifacts, with speculations on what they were.
There is also an interesting site on making your own Gunter's chain.
The technology was already semi-obsolete by about 1900, when steel
tapes became widely available.  It is not a deal breaker, since I
vaguely remember people being taught to use a chain in the 1960's at
Penn State.  The surveying course was usually taken by forestry and
archaeology majors, an interesting mix. I would suggest looking at
the New Zealand survey notes, to set if a chain or a steel tape was
used.  I suppose Arundle may have done a quick survey as well.  Proof
would be tough, unless you can find a box in a museum labled "the
actual chain used to survey Gardner Island", and the relative tags
are either replaced or missing.  Failing that, it would be nice to
find a 1930's Gunther's chain from New Zealand, to see if the shapes
of the tags are similar.  There is a surveying museum in Lansing,
Michigan.  I'll check with trhem to see what artifacts they might have.

Daniel Postellon  TIGHAR 2263  LTM (love to measure)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:05:22
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Little clips

Very interesting, and based on http://www.orbitals.com/self/survey/
chain/chain.html I can certainly see the point(s).  But if they're
Gunters' chain markers, why do our specimens have wood screws through
them?  Seems like they must have been being re-used for something.
Or something.

If they are from a chain, Arundel seems unlikely to have been the
source; no reason for him to have been surveying.  The Kiwis are much
more likely, but it seems to me that Gallagher is an even better
possibility.  I seem to recall (I'm away from my files) that in one
of his reports he comments on the difficulty of laying out land units
for assignment to families for want of a chain, so he might have
tried to manufacture one.  And then perhaps re-used the tags (for
something) when he got a "real" chain.  If that's what happened, it's
rather ironic that one of the "clips" looks like it's cut from
aircraft aluminum.  "You need metal, Mister Karaka?  OK, here's a
piece I found on the reef....."

LTM (who prefers a measured response)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:16:28
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Little clips

I had a prompt reply from the curator.  He thinks that it is unlikely
that these are Gunther chain tags, due to the presence of the screw,
which would not be part of the chain.  If the screw and "flat artifact"
were found attached to each other, I agree that they are not part of a
chain.  Interesting enough, the New Zealand survey document on the
Tighar site does mention chains as a unit of measurement.  This does not
necessarily mean that a physical chain was used, as they could have used
steel tapes.

Dan Postellon
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Feb 2007 21:59:38
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Little clips

Thinking about this, we do have a map with strips of land assigned to
various families.  Do we know how wide these strips are?  (Maybe 5
chains?).  It looks like Gunther chains were used to survey most of
Australia and New Zealand, as well as the "public land states" in the
US. They do not look like they are difficult to make, good 17th century
technology, but you would need steel or bronze wire as a starting
material.

Dan Postellon

*******************************************

Dan, I think I do have the map, I'll search it out on Thursday (first
day I will be back in the office) and pop it up on the website.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:01:36
From:         Larry Glazer
Subject:      Re: Little clips

I live near Lansing, MI. Let me know if it would be helpful for me to
go to the museum and take a look, and/or take photos (assuming that
they don't prohibit this)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:11:34
From:         Ted Campbell
Subject:      The Bones

To: Ric and Marty (the Fiji 2003 survey)

I was re reading some of the details on the bone search back in 1999
and came across an article written by Robert Keith-Reid, the
Associated Press reporter then in Fiji, about the then upcoming
expedition to Nikumaroro in July of 1999.

Keith-Reid's article was dated Feb. 16, 1999 and obviously was the
result of TIGHAR's preplanning the Niku expedition and the Fiji bone
search.  However, a couple of items in the article caught my eye as
being at odds with what TIGHAR knew at the time and I was wondering
if Marty or others talked to Keith-Reid in order to determine his
source of material.

Of interest where Keith-Reid's statements: 1) That a Fiji Navy
Captain named Stanley Brown was sent to Gardner Island on a
reconnaissance mission to gain information on the finding of 2
skeletal remains on the island - the TIGHAR information pointed to
only 1 remain being found by Gallagher.  Did Brown captain the R.C.
S. Nimanoa which picked up the bones from Gallagher?   2) The bones
were sent to Tarawa for examination - TIGHAR information pointed to
the bones being sent to Fiji. Was there a second shipment of the
bones to Tarawa?  3) The Fiji museum reported they found records of 2
boxes being received in the 1940 time frame of the above events -
TIGHAR didn't report finding any such records.  Were the reported
records in error?

Can either of you shed a little more light on these events?  Did
Keith-Reid do any investigation on his own in this regard - he was
reported as being interested in aviation matters?  Have we asked to
see any of his files - I know he died in 2006?

Ted Campbell
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:11:59
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Little clips

One more strange piece of trivia.  You need a Gunther's chain to set
up an official sized cricket pitch.  Did Nikumaroro have one?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:12:27
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: little clips

Photos are available at their website, www.surveyhistory.org.  They
sent me another, but this list does not allow attachments.   Dan
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:13:11
From:         Dan Brown
Subject:      Re: little clips

The screws wouldn't be parts of a Gunter's chain, but if "little
clips" were being handcrafted from scavenged aluminum as original or
replacement tally tags, they could also serve as makeshift benchties
or other permanent numbered markers. It's not obvious why tallies
would need two holes. The similarity to a modern benchtie is pretty
striking, except they seem too small to be good surveying benchties.
The intention was to suggest that the number of points or notches may
be their most significant feature. Since that hypothesis wasn't
immediately scorched to cinders by forum reviewers, thinking about
surveying prompts this nearly untestable speculation: it wasn't a
sextant box, it was a transit (theodolite) box, and the eyepiece was
from a surveyor's transit. Not completely untestable, because there
may be manufacturer's records of a transit box with relevant serial
numbers.

Dan Brown, #2408


Daniel R. Brown, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Infectious Diseases and Pathology
Box 110880
University of Florida
Gainesville FL 32611-0880 USA
Phone +1 (352) 392-4700X3975
FAX +1 (352) 392-9704
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:14:03
From:         Marty Moleski
Subject:      Re: The bones

>From Ted Campbell
>
>... a couple of items in the article caught my eye as being at odds
with what TIGHAR knew at the time and I was wondering if Marty or
others talked to Keith-Reid in order to determine his source of
material.

I talked with RKR in 2003.  Here are my notes, which reflect the "positives"
from the conversation rather than the "negatives", and then some related
snippets from other folks:

============

Conversation with Robert Keith-Reid

Trevor Whippy inherited Verrier's house and belongings.
RKR hasn't seen him in years.  The Whippy's are a large
family descended from the first American consul (?).
He retired from the police force.

Check with the Chairman of the Fiji Broadcast Corporation.
He is a close relative of Trevor and may know his
whereabouts.  Chances are good that Trevor has gone
to Australia, where many of his family live.

The WPHC used to be in Government House--an old
wooden building.  (I'm pretty sure our gang went
through it in 1999.)

Robert's mother, Mrs. Keith-Reid, is 84 or 85
years old.  He'll see her tonight and ask her a few
questions, but he is not optimistic.  Her memory
is fading.  She was with Mrs. Brown at Government
House "for years and years" and was a secretary
for the WPHC.

There was a fire six years ago that destroyed
Carpenters' office building.  But Carpenters
is owned by an Australian company (Carpenters
Holdings).  Walter Carpenter, the old man,
loved to keep records and he may have had them
moved to an Australian university.  His son,
Randolph, is in Australia.

RKR is with Islands Business International,
which produces a portfolio of magazines for
the area.

He worked with Emilita Wilson at the Fiji Times.

===============

 From Molly Murphy (Denise's sister):

Stan Brown's wife, Jean, was private secretary to
Ratu Mara or else to the Governor General.  Mrs.
Keith Reid was private secretary to whomever Mrs.
Brown wasn't, so between the two of them, they should
know a great deal.  They probably have signed the
Official Secrets Act, however, and may not be willing
to be questioned at all.

Stan Brown was commander of the Fijian navy and
is definitely the man to talk to.  He has written
articles and was a collector.  His mind is alert,
but he cannot speak.  He probably would understand
the questions, but he might not be able to answer
them.

===============

Emilita Wilson also recommends talking with Robert
Keith-Reid, the best journalist in the Western
Pacific.  He is with the same business at which
Tom King wrote him.  Not answering e-mail is
pretty typical of RKR, says Mrs. W.

==============

 From Robert Austin:

Mrs. Keith-Reid wanted to borrow some accountants
one morning.  She called the Lord High Executioner,
who replied that he was sorry that he could not
send anyone to help her: "All my best chaps are
in jail at the moment."

===============

>Of interest where Keith-Reid's statements: 1) That a Fiji Navy
>Captain named Stanley Brown was sent to Gardner Island on a
>reconnaissance mission to gain information on the finding of 2
>skeletal remains on the island - the TIGHAR information pointed to
>only 1 remain being found by Gallagher.  Did Brown captain the
>R.C.S. Nimanoa which picked up the bones from Gallagher?

I believe that is correct--the facts are on the TIGHAR website
somewhere.  I've got to round this out and get to class.

Here are my complete notes from my telephone conversation with Mrs. Brown.
As with other interviews, I took down lots and lots of extraneous
information for various and sundry reasons.

================
Phone call with Jean (sp?) Brown:

Mrs. Brown thinks that the sextant box went to Australia
after the war and that it was determined to be German.

She thought the bones were just stored.

Paddy McDonald's daughter is not Veronica but Hillary
or Sally.  Both have left Fiji.

When TIGHAR came to Government House (Ratu's quarters),
"We knew it wasn't there.  The place has been painted
several times and there are no attics."

JB worked as personal secretary to Ratu Mara.  She
still does.  He has had a stroke and can't be
interviewed.

JB is 80 years old.  Stan can hardly speak, but she
asked him questions several times and got information
from him.

Neither she nor Stan remember Gallagher having a fiance,
but it wouldn't surprise her if he did.  "Many of those
young men came out in the service, went home on leave
and returned with a bride.  The wives usually disliked
the area."

JB joined the government service at the end of WW II
or shortly thereafter.  She volunteered to serve in
Tarawa with Maude.  She was there for seven years
(something like 1947 to 1954???).  She does not remember
the split between the office of the Fiji Governor and
the WP High Commission in 1953 because she was in
Tarawa at the time.

There were only two unmarried British women on the island,
so they had an excellent social life.  Conditions were
primitive.  There were eight European couples.  They
lived in houses that mixed a European floor plan with
native construction and thatched roofs.  Most English
women didn't like Tarawa (cf. Mrs. Hoodless' remarks
in Misi Utu).  JB would go out on the reef and get
octopi or shellfish.  She enjoyed fresh fish.  "Island
food is delicious when it is cooked right."  One
British woman asked her cook to prepare octopus.  He
did it British style: boiled whole.  It was not a
big success.

Tarawa is just sand and coconut trees.  They had good
water from a well at low tide.  There was an 18-month
drought, and the water became pretty brackish.  "We
just mixed whiskey with the water.  Purely medicinal
reasons, of course.  It killed the germs and improved
the taste."

The children of Jack Barley are on Vanuatu, according
to Stan.

The Japanese were primarily on Betio (sp?).  They
didn't bother the Gilbertese very much.  There were
no Japanese/Gilbertese babies after the war, which
is a tribute to the discipline shown by the troops.

When she went to Tarawa, wings were still sticking
out of the sea from the battle and the blockhouses
were all over the place.  When they worked on the
airport, they turned up thousands of bones.

The coast watchers were murdered by the Japanese
during the war.

The Americans had a base on Tarawa for quite a while.
Airplanes flew in monthly with fresh steaks and
the like.  The Brits had to content themselves with
tinned meat.  The Americans left a caretaker behind
and seem to have forgotten him.  He lived alone
with a dog in the American buildings.  The Brits
included him in all of their social life and
ultimately persuaded the U.S. to send a plane to
pick him up.  JB did not say what happened to the
dog.

Michael Field, a reporter in Auckland, may have
the original photo of Gallagher's grave.  He
picked it up from the Browns (?) a few years ago.
They do not have a photo of the kanawa box.

JB claims that it was Luke who liked the kanawa
box and who asked to have another one like it
made for him.

The people in Fiji don't realize how close the
Japanese were.  World War II is forgotten.  There
wasn't a gun in any of the islands that could
have slowed down an invasion fleet.

I asked whether Sir Harry was recalled for failure
to prepare the defense of the islands.  She and
Stan thought not.  Sam Ellis wrote the government
and said that if Sir Harry was not recalled, he
would see him in court.  Sir Harry's wife did not
come with him to Fiji, and he was "a bit of a
playboy.  Very clever."  It seems that he lived
"the bachelor life."

Mitchell (sp?) was a better governor.

The Fiji Government took over New Caledonia during
the war.  There was an uprising, and Stan's ship
sailed to help deal with it.

JB does not think Gilchrist ever had the bones.
She knew him well.  They were neighbors--lived
just across the street from him.  She liked him.

Susan Parkinson trained with Gilchrist.  Her son,
William, is with Fiji Television.

I told Mrs. Brown about Roger's search in the
cemetery and cremation records.  She seemed to
think that the bones were definitely not buried--but
that is because she believes she read about them
in the last month or so.  She says she and Stan
had a laugh together about the bones.  Roger says
that some bones were found in the last month or
so, but that they have been identified.  They're
definitely not our box of bones, according to
the Mad Scientist.  Roger will double-check that
on Monday.

I'll check with the Post and the Times to see what
bone stories have been run recently.

Gallagher loved Gardner.  He was sick on Ocean Island
and they wanted to fly him out, but he refused
evacuation.  He wanted to get back to his own home
on Gardner.

The British lived on "biscuits and tinned meat."
JB and Stan knew a captain of a small boat who had
two wooden legs.  He always carried a hard Pacific
biscuits in his pockets.  He disappeared from
the ship in the vicinity of Christmas Island.  No
one knows whether he jumped, fell or was pushed
overboard.

Captain Bligh is one of Stan Brown's great heroes.
JB has read a printed copy of his journal, which
Bligh kept in pen and ink.  He made an entry
ever day while bobbing around in a 20' boat
that had 18 men in it.  The maps he drew of the
Cannibal Islands (now known as Fiji) on that
voyage were used by mariners for several decades.
He had no sextant with him, but apparently did
have a chronometer.

Stan Brown wrote an unpublished manuscript about
Wilkes (sp?) called "The Anti-Bligh."

"There are no more heroes now.  They've all gone."

The Gilbertese use the rafters and crossbeams in the
Maneaba as some kind of star charts.  Mrs. Brown
intends to drop off a pamphlet at the hotel for us
about Gilbertese navigation techniques.

Fiji is in great danger of becoming like Papua
New Guinea and the Solomons.  Those places are
not safe.  Little groups are at war with each
other and will attack strangers without warning
or provocation.

Fiji may have more solidarity than the other
Melanesian territories.  "We haven't got pidgin
in Fiji."  "Helicopter" in pidgin is "mixmaster
belong God."

When the Banabans first came to Rabi, they were
quite disappointed.  They had left a coral island
and moved into a steamy jungle.  Stan would often
bring Gilbertese through the Taveuni (sp?) Strait.
The hills press close to the water there, and the
Gilbertese thought that they were going to fall
on them--they had never seen hills before.

================

Mrs. Brown was completely convinced that the bones
had been found in New Zealand and that the mystery
was solved.  I tried to track down the article that
gave her and Captain Brown that impression.  Two
guesses: one article was about some "unicorn" bones
that were seized by NZ authorities in transit;
the other likely article was about the opening
of the Auckland archives, which was illustrated by
the bones diagram from the bones file.  I was unable
to persuade Mrs. Brown that the case was not closed,
so we talked mostly about other things.  :o(

>2) The bones were sent to Tarawa for examination
>
>- TIGHAR information pointed to the bones being sent to Fiji. Was
>there a second shipment of the bones to Tarawa?

Again, on the website, you'll find the story:

-- skull found, buried
-- search conducted, bones boxed up
-- bones seized by Lindsay Isaac-Verrier in Tarawa while
	en route to Fiji
-- bones examined in Fiji
-- no documents of the disposition of the bones that we
	have yet been able to find (DRAT!)

>3) The Fiji museum reported they found records of 2 boxes being
>received in the 1940 time frame of the above events - TIGHAR didn't
>report finding any such records.  Were the reported records in error?

Yes, I think so.  The 1999 team looked at all of the bones in the
Fiji Museum.  Roger and I visited the place, but didn't duplicate
their search.  RKR may have misunderstood what the 1999 people
told him.

>Can either of you shed a little more light on these events?  Did
>Keith-Reid do any investigation on his own in this regard ...

No.

> ...  Have we asked to see
>any of his files - I know he died in 2006?

Yes, he died.  No, we have not asked to see his files.

Roger and I talked to everyone that anyone recommended as a
possible source.  After three weeks, there were no new names
coming up.  All of the ex-pats were warm, funny, and helpful.
Only one Indo-Fijian was mildly helpful (the archivist at
the medical school); no other Indo-Fijians would give us
the time of day.  We were able to get some leverage on the
University (finally!) because Roger dug up Gilchrist's will,
but his fossil collection turned out to be "real science" and
contained only items of scientific interest.  He made three
such gifts--to the Smithsonian, to NZ, and to Fiji.

LTM.

				Marty #2359
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:58:17
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: The bones

For Ted Campbell --

Let me add a bit to what Marty reported (Thanks for the full note-
dump, Marty; I hadn't seen some of that material).

<<1) That a Fiji Navy
Captain named Stanley Brown was sent to Gardner Island on a
reconnaissance mission to gain information on the finding of 2
skeletal remains on the island - the TIGHAR information pointed to
only 1 remain being found by Gallagher.>>

Keith-Reid's article came out just as we were preparing for the '99
work in Fiji, and when contacted about it, he didn't have much to say
about his sources.  The late Stan Brown was one of the founders and
leaders of the Fiji Naval Defense Force, but that was during and
after WWII; at the time of Gallagher's death he was the the (chief?)
engineer on the Viti, and told us when we met him in '89 that he'd
held the lantern while Macpherson operated on Gallagher.  The
official WPHC records document only one bones discovery (at the SE
end of the island), but we've heard from elsewhere that there were
two discoveries, the other being at the NW end, perhaps near the
Norwich City.  We have no evidence that Brown (or anyone else) was
sent to Niku to investigate either bones discovery.  I have an
entirely speculative hypothesis about the alleged second bones
discovery, but it's just that -- speculative.  In any event, if there
was such a discovery at the NW end, the bones could have been from
the Norwich City casualties, or from one of Our Heroes -- or, of
course, from someone else.

<<Did Brown captain the R.C.
S. Nimanoa which picked up the bones from Gallagher?>>

Not that we know of, and since he was an engineer it seems
superficially unlikely, but roles may have been pretty mutable;
thanks for reminding me; I'll see if Sir Ian Thomson (Luke's ADC) knows.

<< 2) The bones
were sent to Tarawa for examination - TIGHAR information pointed to
the bones being sent to Fiji. Was there a second shipment of the
bones to Tarawa?>>

Not that we know of.  The bones we know of went first to Tarawa where
they were examined by Isaac (later Verrier), and then to Fiji.

<< 3) The Fiji museum reported they found records of 2
boxes being received in the 1940 time frame of the above events -
TIGHAR didn't report finding any such records.  Were the reported
records in error?>>

No, there were two boxes, both sent by Gallagher aboard Nimanoa.  One
was the kanawa casket containing the bones; the other was the sextant
box, with the other artifacts (shoe parts, corks on chains) packed
inside.

LTM (who encourages her children to keep boning up)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2007 11:58:36
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Little clips

I'm not sure what a surveying benchtie is. Can you expand on this?
Other than the New Zealand survey crew, I'm not sure who might have a
theodolite on Nikumaroro.
Dan Postellon
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:49:09
From:         Marty Moleski
Subject:      Re: the bones

>From Tom King for Ted Campbell --
>
>Let me add a bit to what Marty reported (Thanks for the full note-
>dump, Marty; I hadn't seen some of that material).

You're welcome.

I thought I had sent it all to EPAC day by day, but
it's possible that I missed some days--or else am
entirely misremembering what I did (just three
years after the events in question!).  It's possible
that I just sent the e-mails to Pat and Ric instead
of to everybody.

It was a splendid trip, and I'm very grateful to the
TIGHAR benefactors who made it possible.  Both Roger
and I were hugely disappointed that we came home
empty-handed.  I still believe that there had to have
been some letter remarking on the final disposition
of the bones, but I'm not confident that there is any
rational method of turning up a copy of that letter,
if it still exists.

I was constantly amazed at how much trivia was in the
files.  I took notes on some of the strangest items
both in Fiji and in Auckland.

======================
VWTMcG wrote Dr. Duncan Macpherson's dad to say that
his son had cirrhosis of the liver.  Three days later,
Jock died at age 42 on July 10, 1943.  On 4 October
1943, a silver pocket watch, a silver wrist watch, and
a gold signet ring were sent to the Secretary of the
WPHC: "It was Dr. Macpherson's intent to take these
items to Mr. Gallagher's parents when he next went
to England on leave."

Tofiga: "Didn't his death shock all of us!  It was
the first big funeral in Suva.  Military, too.
No dry eyes that day."

Make that Sir Alport Barker.

"A large proportion of the records of the British
Solomon Isles Protectorate and of the Gilbert and
Ellice Colony was unfortunately lost during the
last war" (A.I. Diamond, "The Central Archives of
Fiji and the Western Pacific High Commission,"
The Journal of Pacific History, 1 (1966) 210).

AI Diamond took over after Dorothy Courier, I
believe.

Books loaned to His Excellency during his
recent indisposition:

      "The Moon is Down"
      "Keys of the Kingdom"
      "I Lost My English Accent"
      "Inside Europe"

WLIV lost three cameras at Tarawa.

20 Aug 1943: VWTMcG wants an Assistant Principal.
It is a near-constant theme in any of the letters
he writes about Hoodless' retirment.  He wanted
to remedy the "defect of having one man responsible
for most of the teaching and all of the administration
and discipline."  Hoped that DWH would retire in 1944.

1 May 1944: Verrier in Taveuni.

A corpse was left in a mortuary after a post-mortem.
The family couldn't locate it for months.  They
were quite unhappy with the state the body was in
when they tracked it down.

Victor William Tighe McGusty was celebrated in
Time Magazine for having "complete charge of the
school" since 1939.  There wasn't a syllable about
Hoodless in the piece.

29 June 1944: DWH "anxious to go and he will have
to be replaced soon."

14 Dec 1943: The USA quartermaster is dumping 15
tons of condemned foodstuffs overboard every day.

21 Jan 1944: VWTMcG back from leave.  London was
holding up OK to the stress of war.  It
was "shameful" that in Ireland there was "no
scarcity of anything except fuel and light."

26 Jan 1944: Steenson and Verrier to Fiji.
VWTMcG wants to observe Verrier, who wants to
work in CMS and the laboratory.

11d. in stamps were sent by a clerk who promised
to never again abuse the free mail provided to
hospital correspondence.

10 Aug 1944 VWTMcG getting ready to retire.
Offers model of a native canoe to the Smithsonian.
Does not admit that DWH defeated him.  (VWTMcG
had been trying to get Hoodless to retire since
1940 or thereabouts).

A quick look at the Civil Lists for 1942 shows that Sir Harry,
VWTMcG, and DWH sat on the same Legislative committee.  Lots
of opportunities for unrecorded conversations about the bones,
I imagine.

Vaskess was 50 in 1941.  When did he leave the Colonial service?
Died in 1969, age 78.

Tofiga's birthday: Nov 18, 1920.

A.S. Frater appointed Principal 31-12-46.  Still there in
1950.  Gilchrist didn't become principal until 1964-65 or
thereabouts.

3 October 1944: VWTMcG to Vaskess: Verrier is good with
stats.  "The memorandum [on 'statistics and vital
statistics'] is breezily written and is very interesting."

Various registers of mail and/or telegrams to or from
the Colonial office: dozens of "confidential" or "secret"
labels without any other hint about contents.

[Next guess: the file became confidential or secret?]

15 January 1945: VWTMcG resigned from the Fiji Club and
from the Fiji Golf Club.  Hoodless undoubtedly played
on.

22 January 1945: Hoodless will retire 31 March "next."
ACK!  My British fails me.  Does that mean 1945 or
1946?  Well, Frater doesn't come until the last day
of 1946, so it doesn't much matter either way.

4 February 1945: VWTMcG left the colony and our story.
I felt sad to see him go.  We've been such close
companions the last few days.  Time Magazine would
be disappointed to learn how little control he had
over Dr. Hoodless, Founding Principal of CMS.

An opinion derived from reading VWTMcG's outgoing
correspondence, 1940-1946: the Brits saw the war
coming and got ready for it; they then saw the
end of the war coming and got ready for that, too.

If you're going to fight wars with million-man armies,
you need a system to back them up.  Lone rangers
would run out of food, ammunition, and medical supplies
long before they got a chance to stand up and get
blown away by the enemy.  Hmm, how far back does the
battle of the bureaucracies go?  Napoleon?

Here's an example of how the bureaucrats were looking
ahead to the end of the war.  Some dude named Lloyd
is writing to Sir Harry from the Colonial Office,
31 Dec 1940:

	"After the war, I hope that it may be found possible
	to create the post of Surgical Specialist at the
	Hospital whose appointment would help to relieve
	medical officers of a number of the responsibilities
	to which you refer."

This is the post that Gilchrist ultimately inherited,
I believe.


18 Sept 1945	Gov't purchased Tamavua Military
	Hospital and placed it under the jurisdiction
	of Medical Services.

19 Oct 1945: unable to find a buyer for Miss Wilkinson's
	horse.
	
22 Oct 1945: Second bicycle stolen in less than two weeks!

15 Nov 1945: Memorandum about Verrier's misappropriation
	of funds.  He has been paying an engineer
	8/5/-- per month to look after a launch that
	hasn't yet been returned to the water after
	being renovated.
	
4 Dec 1945: New policy.  From now on, bicycles are to
	be chained and padlocked.
	
18 Dec 1945: Native Medical Practitioner Sikivou was
	caught "drinking without a permit."
	
21 Dec 1945: Dr. R.J. Snodgrass recommends that Ratu
	Jone Tavai be "issued a liquor permit on medical
	grounds."

1941-42: Resident Commissioners' correspondence lost for GEIC & BSIP.

20 Nov 1978: WP Archives closed.  GEIC records to Kiribati & Tuvalu.

2510/1941: Fraser, the Honorable P., Prime Minister of New Zealand:--
	Congratulatory message to on escape from serious injury in
	recent desert motor accident.
	
3082/1941: Typewriter of Officer-in-Charge, Phoenix Islands Settlement
	Scheme:-- Repairs to.  1941.

etc., etc., etc.

======================


We may get lucky, as happened with the discovery of the original
bones file.  Someone somewhere may be looking for something else
and stumble across some of what we've been seeking--a note,
a file, the sextant box, or the bones.

LTM.

				Marty #2359