Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:43:22 EST
From:         Bob Brandenburg
Subject:      100 octane at Howland?

> Good question.  I've never seen any reference to exactly what kind of fuel
> was waiting for her at Howland but it could be buried in the message traffic.
> Perhaps someone who has the CD would have the time to do a search.

I've checked the messages organizing the logistics for the original (East to
West) flight attempt, and for the West-to-East flight.  The information is
included in several messages spread over a considerable time period, so I'll just
summarize the fuel data here.

The fuel positioned at Howland for the original attempt consisted of thirty rums
(I assume 42 U.S. gallons per drum) of 87 octane aviation fuel.  No mention of
100 octane.  There also was lube oil at Howland.

After the takeoff failure at Honolulu, the personnel stationed at Howland were
authorized to use some of the aviation gasoline as necessary for daily needs.
While the Electra was being repaired, Standard Oil shipped four drums of "special
takeoff gasoline" (I assume this was 100 octane) to Honolulu for delivery to
Howland.  That fuel was delivered to Howland by the Itasca.  The final readiness
report from the Itasca prior to Earhart's departure from Lae listed 95 gallons of
lube oil and "29 drums aviation gas".  There is no breakdown of the 29 drums, but
if we subtract the 4 drums of 100 octane, that would leave 25 drums of 87
octane.  At 42 gallons per drum, that would be 1,050 gallons of 87 octane and 168
gallons of 100 octane.

It seems curious that no 100 octane fuel was positioned at Howland for the
westbound attempt.  But perhaps Earhart thought she wouldn't need to use much on
the takeoff from Honolulu and would have enough remaing for the takeoff from
Howland to Lae.

Hope this helps.

Bob Brandenburg
#2286
****************************************************************************
From Ric

Thanks for digging that out.  Very interesting.  So there was 100 octane at
Howland and Earhart didn't need to worry about not using up what she had on
the Lae/Howland leg.

In the Army Air Corps report on the Luke Field accident there is much
discussion of the fueling of the airplane because the gas in the Standard Oil
truck that was supposed to be used turned out to be contaminated with
sediment and they had to make arrangements to use Army fuel instead, but
nowhere is there any mention of what octane the gas was.  It's merely
described as "fuel" and I think we have to assume that it was all just the
usual 87 octane gasoline.

It may be that the use of 100 octane for takeoff was a very new development
that only became a practical possibility between the first and second
attempts.  Some fairly detailed research into the history of the development
of aviation fuels might shed more light on this.

By the way,  were 42 gallon drums the standard back then?  I've always heard
of 55 gallon drums.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:02:50 EST
From:         Tom Strang
Subject:      Seattletimes.com: Vintage airliner raised intact from Elliott Bay

To view the entire article, go to
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134428597_planecrash30m.html

Vintage airliner raised intact from Elliott Bay

By Mike Carter

Seattle Times staff reporter

Engine failure forced the pilot of the Boeing Clipper Flying Cloud, the last
airplane of its kind, to ditch the vintage airliner in Elliott Bay,
investigators said yesterday.

A National Transportation Safety Board investigation is focusing on a
mechanical cause, said senior air-safety investigator Debra Eckrote. The
flight crew, which consisted of some of Boeing's most experienced mechanics
and test pilots, reported that one of the four 900-horsepower engines had
surged unexplainably on takeoff just minutes before all four engines failed
and the plane began rapidly losing altitude.

Capt. Richard "Buzz" Nelson called a mayday at 1:09 p.m. yesterday and six
minutes later ditched the Stratoliner 307 — one of just 10 built —
in the bay just off the West Seattle shoreline. Eckrote noted that each of
the pilots, Nelson and Capt. Mike Carricker, had "several thousand hours" of
flight time.

Besides the two pilots, a pair of longtime Boeing mechanics, Nathan Scott
Andrews and Mark Kempton — the man who had overseen the plane's
restoration — were aboard the 33-seat, silver-bodied airplane. None of
the men was seriously injured, and Eckrote said all were fully cooperating
with her investigation.

"(Nelson) reported that he was in control of the plane the entire time,"
Eckrote said, adding that the landing was "fantastic" considering the
circumstances. "It's fabulous that the plane is intact."

Officials at the Smithsonian Institution, which owns the circa-1940 plane,
were glad to hear that. The Stratoliner, the first pressurized-cabin,
transcontinental commercial airplane built, is to be one of the showpieces of
the Smithsonian's new Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Washington, D.C., an
annex to the National Air and Space Museum to be opened next year near Dulles
International Airport.

There, it will be displayed with more than 200 other historic airplanes,
including the "Enola Gay," the B-29 Superfortress that dropped the atomic
bomb on Hiroshima, and dozens of spacecraft and artifacts, including the
space shuttle Enterprise.

Peter Golkin, a spokesman for the Smithsonian, said the museum may not expect
Boeing to restore the plane to flying condition.

 "We have no plans, once it gets here, for it to ever fly anywhere again,"
Golkin said. While the museum likes its pieces to be as close to airworthy as
possible, it may not be feasible to invest the time and money in the
Stratoliner to put it in the air again.

Boeing spokesman Peter Conte said yesterday that the plane was insured and
that the company had not decided whether it would mechanically restore the
plane. If not, its interior and exterior will be restored and then hauled to
the Smithsonian by truck.

Its flight Thursday, according to Eckrote, began with a routine takeoff from
Boeing Field about 12:30 a.m. The plane was being taken up so the pilots
could practice takeoffs and landings and shake out any mechanical problems.
The plane had logged only 100 hours in the air since it was restored, the
investigator said, and had undergone only routine maintenance.

The plan was for each of the pilots to do three takeoffs and landings, with
the plane refueling between the sets. The first pair were uneventful, with
the plane flying from Boeing to Paine Field in Everett. On takeoff there,
however, the right-inboard No. 3 engine surged briefly, Eckrote said. It
returned to normal, but Eckrote said the pilots decided to abort the rest of
the practice and return to Boeing Field to check the plane out.

On approach, with Carricker at the controls, a warning light showed that the
plane's left-main landing gear had not locked into place. The approach was
aborted and the plane circled Vashon and Bainbridge islands as the flight
mechanic manually cranked the wheel into the locked position.

Eckrote said the plane had resumed its approach when the No. 3 engine
sputtered and lost power. The other three engines followed.

Nelson, now at the controls, radioed his emergency and then took the plane
into the water about 1:15 p.m. The right wing hit first and suffered some
damage.

Salvage crews lifted the plane from the water yesterday afternoon.

The divers placed slings under the plane's aluminum-covered wings and opened
every available opening so the seawater could drain out of the 33,000-pound
plane as it was gingerly lifted to the surface.

Tim Beaver, president and co-owner of Global Diving and Salvage, said one
wing was buried in the silt and divers had to pressure-spray the debris from
it before it could be moved.

About 700 gallons of fuel mixed with seawater were drained from the plane's
fuel tanks, which can hold 1,700 gallons of fuel. How much was fuel and how
much water wasn't immediately known. Eckrote said it is possible that the
plane simply ran out of gas.

A small amount of fuel spilled into Elliot Bay in the crash. Coast Guard
Petty Officer Robert Lanier said it was probably less than 10 gallons. Divers
plugged the tanks and fuel rapidly evaporated.

When the plane was out of the water, damage could be seen near the cockpit
and on one wing. Divers also were looking for one of the plane's wheels,
which came off in the crash.

The aircraft was placed on a barge that was expected to be towed to Terminal
105 on the Duwamish River where crews were to wash it to remove salt water.

By today, its wings were to be removed and the plane loaded onto a flatbed
truck and returned to the hangar where it had been restored.

"The Boeing people have told us that this plane is a national treasure," said
Paul Gallagher of Foss Environmental. "They have hired us and other
contractors to do what it takes to get it up in one piece (and) return it to
Plant Two so they can restore it."

Seattle Times reporter Aydrea Walden contributed to this report.
****************************************************************************
From Ric

When all four engines quit - that's fuel.  The question is, was the cause
mechanical or did somebody screw the pooch?
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:13:31 EST
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Re: Call signs

> I understood Mike to mean that if the aircraft was domiciled east of the
> Mississippi the call sign started with W.  West of the river was K.  The
> Electra was domiciled in Burbank, California.

I'll take that to be true then. (I wasn't absolutely sure, from the context,
that it  applied to more than army stations) As you may have guessed, I'm
still wondering about WHAQQ etc. It seems too much of a coincidence for the
W initial letter to be the only initial letter other than K to be applied
to aircraft. Was Amelia flying some other aircraft from east of the Mississippi
in the then recent past where she could have used a W initial letter, and
hastily corrected a false start to give the correct end (HAQQ) to the callsign?
Or had she regularly used a W starting callsign earlier in her career?
Confusing K and W on voice, even allowing for static and distortion, seems
most unlikely. If she made the KHABQ mistake under the stress of the situation
however, she could also make this W mistake.

Can we find out if she if she used the complete callsign WHAQQ when flying
some other aircraft, KHAQQ perhaps being a vanity adjunct to this earlier
callsign and to KHABQ, as a special dispensation due to her fame? The fact
that her Vega was KHABQ makes one wonder if she really could get special
treatment regarding vanity call signs.

Regards Angus
***************************************************************************
From Ric

My understanding is that the Vega used on the Honolulu/Oakland flight was the
first of Earhart's ships to have a radio of any kind.  I don't see anything
particularly "vanity" about either KHABQ or KHAQQ.  It could be that between
the assignment of KHABQ to the Vega in 1935 and the assignment of KHAQQ to
the Electra in 1936 there had only been 13 aircraft radio stations (B to Q)
alotted out of Burbank (if that's what the KHA signifies).
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:14:43 EST
From:         Alan
Subject:      Re: call signs

... enjoying the forum coming back to "life."

> I understood Mike to mean that if the aircraft was domiciled east of the
> Mississippi thr call sign started with W.  West of the river was K.  The
> Electra was domiciled in Burbank, California.

As to radio stations that was only generally true. There were exceptions.
KDKA being a notable one. Whether they were 100% according to the Mississippi
for aircraft I don't know.

Alan
#2329
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:20:11 EST
From:         Andrew McKenna
Subject:      Re: Why the 7 site?

<<  If someone chose that beach for that reason, then they were
apparently expecting (hoping for) help to arrive from the northeast.  What is
northeast of Gardner?  Nothing except Hawaii and the mainland U.S. >>

Would the USS Colorado have been close enough to Gardner for its lights to be
visible at night?  I agree with Mike, seeing ships lights would be a powerful
motivator to move down to the 7 site.

I can't remember, are the trails visible in the Lambrecht photo?

Andrew McKenna
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Colorado was certainly close enough to be seen from Nutiran shore.  Her
lookouts spotted the Norwich City using binoculars.  She was about 10 miles
out at her closest approach.  But that all happened in the morning, not at
night.

No trails visible in the Lambrecht photo but the quality of the photo is
terrible and the angle is much more oblique and the vegetation was thicker
then than it was in 1938.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:21:35 EST
From:         Cam Warren
Subject:      Re: call signs

Mike's right about the call-sign allocations, with the exception that
some broadcast stations received three-letter calls; WLS ("World's
Largest Store", i.e. Sears Roebuck), WGN ("World's Greatest Newspaper",
Chicago Tribune),  KGO & KPO, San Francisco; KFI, KNX, Los Angeles, etc.
etc. These, on the "low end" of the dial, were nearly always
high-powered "clear-channel" stations, with no other US stations
assigned the same frequency. The three letter calls are being phased out
whenever there's a change in license details. KOH Reno, became (to it's
dismay) KKOH, when they shifted to a new frequency. (Modesty doesn't
allow me to mention KRCW-FM, Santa Barbara, but you probably will
recognize the connection.)

Cam Warren
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:27:39 EST
From:         Cam Warren
Subject:      Re: A number of radio matters

Again, an agreement with Mike E. about radio matters. Transmitters are -
of course - much "cleaner" these days, and Amelia's probably leaked all
sorts of stray signals at close range (but at minuscule amounts of
power!), especially if mistuned.  Although rated at 50 watts (which is
input to the final amplifier) the Electra setup probably radiated
something substantially below that figure. (It could be calculated, but
I'd guess if it put out 25 watts Effective Radiated Power - while
airborne - that would be about it.)

Reception of harmonics was and is possible on a typical "home" use
receiver, but you're usually talking about a 50 or 100,000 watt
international short-wave station with a precisely tuned (wire length,
etc.) with a high gain directional antenna.
Theory notwithstanding, 25 watts (a generous estimate!) of voice on the
ground reaching several thousand miles on the FUNDAMENTAL frequency
ain't gonna happen in the real world, guys.

As for Gurr's modifications, it's quite possible he was biting off more
than he could chew (despite Amelia's high opinion of him - due to a
fluke, I might add), but the radio system on the Electra was reworked at
Miami, and you can bet the Pan Am techs knew what they were doing.

And don't bring up satellite radio as an example of amazing low power
coverage. It works - line of sight - from an effective antenna height of
2,000 miles or more!

Cam Warren
****************************************************************************
From Ric

Whatever Pan Am did in Miami, they didn't change the antenna length that Gurr
had recommended.

I'm sure that Bob Brandenburg would be happy to have your point-by-point
critique of his propagation analysis if you disagree that it was at least
possible for Betty (for example) to have heard Earhart on a harmonic.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:28:54 EST
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: A number of radio matters

> From Mike E. #2194:
>
> And if sea water gets to the batteries -- ZAP.  Plus they will generate a
> poisonous gas when salt water gets to them.

A lot depends on the batteries.  When my yacht began to sink I ran it into
the shallows around the island.  The water was deep enough inside the cabin
for the stove to float out of its mount and past the companionway.  The
batteries were under about 2 feet of water at that point.

A combination of hand bailing and the receding tide allowed me to get the
water level down after a couple of hours.  Once the water was low enough I
was able to find the terminals for the electric bilge pumps and pump the boat
out as I waded through the mud pulling it ashore.

They were not sealed batteries, just ordinary deep cycle lead acid electric
fork lift batteries.

I continued to use them for two years with no problems.

It is possible the Electra's batteries could be submerged a few times and
still work. if the vent holes in the caps were small enough. or if they were
vented through a tube to keep any overflow away from the airframe, which
would cause an air lock.

Th' WOMBAT
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:30:05 EST
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Re: Polhemus article

Any of you navigators out there ever use the "Polhemus Celestial Computer-Air
Navigation, Type CPU-41/P" which was issued to Air Force "navs" in the '60s and
'70s for computing "motions" and for plotting fixes? I have always assumed that
Bill Polhemus invented it, probably not too many navigators with that name,
anybody know any different?

Didn't someone post a few weeks ago that they were to meet with Ann Pellegreno?
if so did the meeting come off and did you learn anything interesting?
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:40:17 EST
From:         John Rayfield
Subject:      Re: Call signs

Mike E. wrote:

>   All radio stations in all services are assigned a call sign ID.  And
> supposedly, they are required to use it at least every day at sign on and
> sign off, but in practice many do not.  (Law enforcement being one example,
> especially mobile stations, but these are often under a blanket "system"
> license with one call sign for all mobiles).

FCC Part 90 (police, fire, business, industrial, etc.) radio users are
supposed to identify with their callsigns as follows (with a few exceptions,
stated in part 90.425): "each station or system shall be identified by the
transmission of the assigned call sign during each transmission or exchange
of transmissions, or once each 15 minutes (30 minutes in the Public Safety
Pool) during periods of continuous operation."

   John Rayfield, Jr.
****************************************************************************
From Ric

The question, of course, is what was the reg (if any) in 1937 and is there
any reason to think that AE woud pay any attention to it anyway.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:43:55 EST
From:         Mike Haddock
Subject:      Re: Herding cats

I think it's important to remember as you have pointed out before, the
essence of what TIGHAR is all about is the investigation of a tradegy
involving the loss of life of two extremely brave & talented people. I get a
little weary of people making light of what is to me a very sad and tragic
story. Hope I'm not being oversensitive, but I enjoy the forum so very much
especially when it involves intelligent discourse among people who genuinely
care about solving this tragic story such as yourself. I would hope that my
fellow forumites would feel the same and restrict their comments to the
business at hand of unraveling this fascinating mystery.
LTM (who appreciates this forum)
Mike Haddock #2438
***************************************************************************
From Ric

We do get pretty irreverent at times but nobody means any harm by it and,
Lord knows, the Wonderful World of Amelia could do with a little irreverence.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:53:21 EST
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      R:  call sign

I seem to remember reading that the flight to South Wales carried a radio.

Where was the aircraft "domiciled" and do we know the call sign?

Regards Angus.
*************************************************************************
From Ric

According to Mary Lovell's book (The Sound of Wings) the call sign of the
Friendship was WOX.  It was probably domiciled in New York.  AE didn't use
the radio on that flight.  It was code only.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:54:57 EST
From:         Mike Muenich
Subject:      Why the 7 site

While a castaway would not have seen the lights of the Colorado in the
daytime, they may have well seen her smoke.  Those old battleships were not
exactly EPA emission control approved.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:02:25 EST
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Re: 100 octane at Howland?

I did a quick search of the web, and found the Army's Quartermaster Museum, where
there is a fair amount of information on fuel supplies.  The only reference I
found to drum size was circa 1952 / Korea, where they talk about 55 gallon
drums.

I have sent an email to the museum asking if they can provide information for
1937.
**************************************************************************
From Bob Brandenburg

> By the way,  were 42 gallon drums the standard back then?  I've always heard
> of 55 gallon drums.

It turns out that 42-gallon drums were not standard back then.

I just checked the Wiley Encyclopedia of Packaging Technology at
www.steelcontainers.com/wiley.htm.  The 42-gallon standard evolved from the use
of wooden barrels for shipping kerosene between 1859 and about 1914.  The barrels
were built to hold 50 gallons, but typically lost enough during transit to arrive
with about 42 gallons.  Sometime after 1907, the first true 55-gallon steel drum
was introduced.  But the 42-gallon barrel had become the standard unit for bulk
shipment of petroleum products, and continues as such to this day.

There is an interesting passage stating that toward the end of the 1930s the
steel-container industry started gearing up for the war effort, and that 55-gallon
drums were "indispensable to the fuel supply of island bases and assaults in the
Pacific . . ."

So it would appear that the avgas on Howland was in 55 gallon drums.

LTM, who is fascinated by the new vistas of knowledge that this forum opens.

Bob
#2286
**************************************************************************
From Ross Devitt

> By the way,  were 42 gallon drums the standard back then?  I've always
> heard of 55 gallon drums.

All of the available photographs of the Earhart flight show 44 IMP gallon
drums (roughly 53 US gallons)

Th' WOMBAT
***************************************************************************
From Ric

I would guess that whether a drum was a 44 Imperial gallon drum or an
American 55 gallon drum would depend upon the supplier.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:04:41 EST
From:         Carol Dow
Subject:      Pelegreno

Someone asked about Ann Pelegreno, Woody "Rogers" Peard is very good friends
with her and spent a lot of time with Ann. I have talked with Ann personally
(about 2 hrs.on a Sunday afternoon) and sent e-mails back and forth and mail
but nobody knows her closer than Woody Peard. Ann doesn't really like to
engage in dialogue, so I would go through Woody for questions, assuming Woody
is willing. I can tell you one thing about Ann Pelegreno....when you're
flying an airplane and there's a top notch navigator on board....do what your
navigator says....says Ann...amen.

Carol Dow #2524
****************************************************************************
From Ric

I'm sure that Ann Pelegreno is a very nice lady but I can't imagine that she
has anything to add to our discussions.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:10:55 EST
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Off Topic- Boeing crash

>When all four engines quit - that's fuel.  The question is, was the cause
>mechanical or did somebody screw the pooch?

In _Fate_Is_The_Hunter_, Ernie Gann recounted a similar problem - turned out to
be a new type of sparkplugs were installed - in 3 of the 4 engines (I think he
was flying a DC-6 at the time).
**************************************************************************
From Skeet Gifford

Jet A?
************************************************************************
From Ric

Maybe, but it sounds like they were refueling between each session of takeoff
and landings.  They should have had their act together.  If was the
investigator on this one I'd be asking where the selector valves were set
during the pre-landing checklist.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:15:37 EST
From:         Mike Haddock
Subject:      Re: Herding cats

I agree having a little fun is okay. Believe me, I'm not a prude! I just
enjoy the forum so much I hate to see it be anything other than a very
interesting dialog among very bright folks. For this newbie who has read
everything in the TIGHAR archives, which book would you suggest I begin
reading and how do I go about getting it? Maybe Kar Burns book? Believe me, I
don't want to waste my time reading books that contain misinformation. I
strongly support the TIGHAR hypothesis.
LTM (who also enjoys a good laugh)
Mike Haddock #2438
***************************************************************************
From Ric

You need the book authored by Tom King, Kar Burns, Randy Jacobson, and Kenton
Spading entitled Amelia Earhart's Shoes (see
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0759101302/qid%3D1017764025/ref%3Dsr%5F
11%5F0%5F1/102-8465647-3244931)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:18:21 EST
From:         Cam Warren
Subject:      Re: A number of radio matters

> Whatever Pan Am did in Miami, they didn't change the antenna length that Gurr
> had recommended.
>
Interesting.  I assume you have supporting documentation, but I seem to
recall a Putnam letter (wire?) to Mantz specifically mentioning the
reworking of the antenna system.

Cam Warren
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Well, we have photos showing the airplane in Burbank after it came out of
repairs and photos of the airplane after it left Miami, and the antenna set
up looks identical.  Any changes must have been internal.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:35:00 EST
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Artifacts

RE: March TIGHAR Tracks report from T. King, "A pointed fragment of ferrous
metal found about ten meters from the nearest Tridacna feature fits neatly
into the best preserved pry wound on one of the shells."

Any thoughts regarding what the metal object may have been? Or what or
where it might be from?

blue skies, jerry
***************************************************************************
From Ric

My best guess is that it's a piece of scavenged Norwich City debris.

It's Artifact 2-6-S-12.  You can see it at
http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Research/Bulletins/33_SevenMysteries/33_SevenMysteries.html
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:36:01 EST
From:         Andrew McKenna
Subject:      call signs

<< From Ric
I understood Mike to mean that if the aircraft was domiciled east of the
Mississippi thr call sign started with W.  West of the river was K.  The
Electra was domiciled in Burbank, California. >>

It is basically the same today.  Dad just moved from NJ to Colorado, and he
is expected, although apparently not required, to change his ham license from
a W call sign to a K call sign.

Andrew McKenna
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:37:38 EST
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Re: call signs

> From Ric
> I don't think there was any such thing as a "vanity" call sign.

From Mike

> but there were no
> vanity provisions for other services, at that time, that I am aware of.
>
> It was not till the 1990s that Amateur radio stations were able to get
> "vanity" calls, in general.

I found this on the net which seems to indicate that for amateur stations at
least, there were, even in the early days, some limited
vanity call signs available. Whether this applied to aircraft, of course is
another matter, but evidently the principle was established.

1928 - As the transmitting range of amateur stations increased, Hams
naturally worked DX and it became necessary to have international call
signs, international prefix structure is set by the International
Radiotelegraph Conference of 1927-1928.

This call sign structure lasted for the rest of the 1920's and the 1930's.
Stations in the 48 States had a 1x2 or 1x3 call sign beginning with W and
containing a numeral from 1 to 9. Stations in Alaska, Hawaii, or other US
Possessions had a K prefix. See Pre WWII K calls. The zero numeral was not
available. Boundaries were considerably different from today - for example
the western sections of New York and Pennsylvania were in the 8th call
district. See Old District boundaries 4 Note that the suffixes beginning
with X was reserved for experimental stations. Eventually,  the FCC  relaxed
their position on the 1x2 and 1x3 X suffix calls, but the 2x3 call signs
(such as KB6XYZ) are still reserved for experimental use. W#X** calls were
also portable calls - a separate authorization was needed for portable
operation and their suffixes began with X. Apparently there was a very
limited "vanity call" program - if a ham wanted a 1X2 call and met several
criteria, such a call would be issued. If a ham moved to a different call
area, he/she had to get a new callsign that matched the district of the new
location. Unlike today, you could always tell where a ham station was
located by the callsign.

Regards Angus.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:38:27 EST
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Great balls of fire.

For Angus -- The fire features are along the surge ridge that forms the
highest part of the SE end of the island, though there are higher points in
the Pisonia forests of eastern Nutiran.  I suppose they could have been used
for signalling, but obviously people were also cooking fish, bird, and turtle
in them, unless the critters decided to immolate themselves.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:39:07 EST
From:         Woody
Subject:      Pelegrino

For Gary,  I am in contact with Ann weekly, I forwarded your post . We will
see what she has to say.        Woody
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:39:48 EST
From:         Mike E.
Subject:      Re: A number of radio matters

For Cam Warren:

The transmitter was rated at 50 watts output, and the input power was
100-110 wats.

73
Mike E.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:40:46 EST
From:         Kenton Spading
Subject:      Sextant Research

A few weeks ago while discusses sextants, Andrew wrote:

> How about posting a question re Ludolph sextants to this group. There
> are 180 members of this group, surely one of  them knows something about
> Ludolph.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sextants/
> I think you will have to join to post.

This reminded me of something.   I visited Amsterdam a short time ago.
After eating lunch with Van Gogh and Rembrandt I wandered into an antique store that
specializes in antique nautical instruments.   The owner, who I was told is somewhat of
an expert in scientific instruments, was not in.   His assistant suggested I contact the
owner with any questions that I might have.   I don't have time to followup on this, however,
if someone else does....his contact info is:

Ben Byleveld Antiques
Nwe Spiegelstraat 45A, 1017 DC Amsterdam
Post Box 15700
1001 NE Amsterdam
phone:  31020-6277774
fax:  31020-6272747
email:  sales@byleveld.nl
web:  www.byleveld.nl

Owner:  Stephan Meulendijks
mobile phone:  31-06 53236550

LTM
Kenton Spading
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:47:52 EST
From:         
Subject:      LOP FAQ is up.

The LOP FAQ is now up on the website.

http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/forum/FAQs/navigation.html

It looks great in Netscape and Explorer but it's acting funky if viewed via
AOL.  Haven't figured out why yet.

Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:36:26 EST
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Re: Artifacts

> From Ric
>
> My best guess is that it's a piece of scavenged Norwich City debris.
>
> It's Artifact 2-6-S-12.  You can see it at
> http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Research/Bulletins/33_SevenMysteries/33_SevenMysteries.html

Steel is readily susceptible to useful analysis due to its varying carbon
content, crystal structure and alloying
constituents. If you collect a sample from the NC it would be quite easy to
put this idea to the test. It would
not of course tell us who brought it to or used it at the site however.

Regards Angus
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Wouldn't various types of wreckage from the ship exhibit a wide variety of
properties - hull plates versus hatch covers versus Lord-knows-what?

This kind of analysis may, however, be useful in determining where the (very
rusted) corrugated metal found at the Seven Site came from.  We collected
samples of surviving  corrugation from what we believe is the old Arundel
site on Nutiran and from the village.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:37:17 EST
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Re: Great balls of fire.

It crossed my mind that if the fires were used for signalling during the day, the
castaway could have thrown food leftovers in, in an effort to generate more smoke.

ltm,
jon
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:46:23 EST
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Re: LOP FAQ is up

When I read the article in Tighar Tracks, it clarified for me how the LOP like
nothing else.  Seeing it in living color on the website is great.

I'm using Netscape.  When I bring it up, the compass rose and the picture
"Aircraft course approaching..." are way off to the right of the page, and cut
off.  The caption that goes with the "approaching" picture runs down the side
of the page, underneath, and the text resumes after that.  Don't know if it's
just my machine, or if anyone else is experiencing the same thing.  Otherwise,
everything is clear.

ltm
jon
**************************************************************************
Wonderful job on the LOP page.  Many thanks!

LTM.

            Marty #2359
**********************************************************************
From Jim Kellen

I was pretty sure that I understood the LOP explanation the first time I
heard it. Your replies to repeated requests for further explanation
reinforced my initial understanding. I just finished reading the LOP FAQ on
the website. There is no need for any further questions or explanations on
this subject. Excellent job!

LTM,
Jim Kellen #2331
***************************************************************************
From Amanda Dunham

I just looked at it in Netscape 4.73 on a Mac.  Everything is fine
except that some of the compass rose graphics are pushed off to the
right side and cut off.  Other than that it looks great.

Amanda
TIGHAR #2418, patron
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Thanks guys.  Yeah, I'm still seeing those problems.  Pat will try to figure
out what's wrong.  Sometimes getting a graphic-intensive piece to load
correctly in all formats is a bit of a challenge.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:51:33 EST
From:         Ed
Subject:      Re: Sextant Research

I would be happy to follow up on further sextant research.  I have gotten
printed copies of several Ludolph patents, and I have some ability to read
them in German, {at least with a dictionary).  I think that the patents may
picture components for which the Ludolph documents may have been lost.  I'll
even join you as a member rather than an interested reader (lurker).

My hypothesis is that the sextant box may be a very good link between Noonan,
Niku, and A.E.  If there was a sextant #3500, it was probably unique (or very
rare), so it could be a better link than Blucher Oxfords or Cat's Paw Heels.

In any case, I'd like to follow #3500 where ever it may lead.

You can also contact me directly.

You can call me Ed!
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Thanks Ed.  I'll be putting up a posting her on the forum soon bringing
everyone up to date about what we have learned about the artifacts that we
suspect may associated with a sextant or its box.
***************************************************************************
From Herman

I sent a message to Byleveld in Holland (sent a CC to you). Hope he contacts
you.

Herman
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:55:43 EST
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Pelegreno

> From Ric
>
> I'm sure that Ann Pelegreno is a very nice lady but I can't imagine that
> she has anything to add to our discussions.

Except maybe first hand experience of flying a similar airplane to Earhart's
over long distances?

It's a bit like my first hand experience of being marooned on a tropical
island with no likelihood of rescue.  What I did is not necessarily what
others would do, but it adds more probability to the speculation.

Some of Ann's experience of flying a slightly different model Electra could
be useful as could Linda Finch's, if it was available.

Th' WOMBAT
**************************************************************************
From Ric

Loud and cramped seems to be the consensus about flying Lockheed 10s over
long distances.  You'r not going to get any great insight about fuel
management from either Pelegreno or Finch.  Each of them had men along who
really knew how to fly the airplane. That's not intended to be a sexist
comment, just statement of fact.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:22:25 EST
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      So How About the 7 Site?

This post is long and full of contentious points - many of them my opinions
and all of those based on hard experience.

[From Ric:  To save time, I'll insert my comments in brackets.]

It now seems that the 7 site is the "Bones" site, beyond any reasonable
doubt.

[Your opinion.  Mine too.  But still opinion.]

The positioning of the water tank, the likelihood that there was apparently
a small stand of coconuts just under 2 miles from the 7 site on the point of
land that just into the lagoon (north of Kanawa point) which probably would
have been cut off from the sea and the lagoon shore by scaevola.

[The water tank is almost certainly from the Gallagher-era and your
stand of cocos on Taraia Point wasn't there in 1937.  It isn't on the 1939 NZ
survey map or the 1939 aerial mapping photo taken by the plane from USS
Pelican.]

The bird bones and turtle shell as well as the signs of activity at the site.
Add to that the circumstantial pointer of the  "Lambrecht Photo" which just
happens to have been taken from a position that overlooks the 7 site.

[That's a real stretch.]

How long could the castaway have lived at the 7 site?

Not long really in any sort of health.  A human needs a certain amount of
water to live.  If we take into account the liquid acquired by eating birds,
turtles and fish it still falls short by a considerable quantity.  Without
water the kidneys fail, followed by other organs causing a nasty slow death.
Our castaway would probably not have lived long enough to make permanent
trails like those shown in the aerial photographs prior to settlement.

[We know there was a drought but we have no idea what the actual rainfall was or
whether it was enough to sustain a person.  The trails were not "permanent"
and are not apparent in the 1939 photo taken just five months after the 1938
photo in which they appear.]

I know Ric disagrees with my suggestion that a treck from one end of the
island to the other was necessary on every day that the 7 site was used but
nobody who has not been stuck on a smallish island for a few weeks can
possibly understand just how much boredom involves itself in the daily
routine.

I concede that there are two ways to get from the north shore of the main
passage to the top beach.  One is by walking around the island and the other
is by walking across the lagoon side, past what the N.C. survivors called the
"Lake".  One would have to be there and try it to see which was the most
sensible.  From the N.C. survivors' reports I think it may have been possible
to take a shortcut past the "Lake" then cross over to the ocean beach.  Once
there though a walk from there to the 7 site should take even a tired person
no more than an hour.

[I have no idea what you're talking about.]

Let's double it and say 2 hours.  That allows for crawling the whole way on
hands and knees!

The heat is not an issue.  Where I was brought up it snows in winter.  I went
from there straight to working dawn till dusk in the top end of Australia
with no gradual acclimatisation.  It was hard manual work in the sun day
after day.  You get used to hardship remarkably quickly.

Ric and the crew experience Niku for a few weeks at a time with most modern
conveniences and little time to acclimatise.  Of course a walk from one end
of the island to the other is going to knock them about.  If I came straight
off a luxury liner to the island every day I'd feel it too.

[I'm going to ignore that crack.]

Not so, our castaway.  He, she or both of them would have very quickly
learned about keeping out of the sun from mid morning to mid afternoon.

It appears from photographs and weather patterns that the north shore of Niku
is the weather shore for a fair bit of the year.  If that is the case, it
could well explain our castaway walking down that beach each day.  The ocean
breeze drops the apparent temperature by a degree or two.  The shade of a Ren
tree would drop it further.  Unless you were injured so badly you could not
move, walking that shore daily would most likely become a part of your
regular routine, dictated by the necessity to avoid boredom if nothing else.

Now, back to our castaway.  The sextant box and the Benedictine bottle are
the most obvious pointers to the castaway being Earhart or Noonan, although
both could as easily have come from either the Norwich City or the Electra.

[I would say that the woman's and man's shoe parts found with the bones were
the best clues.]

Who knows where the Norwich City may have picked up a bottle of Benedictine.
On the other hand, if the Benedictine bottle washed ashore from the N.C., why
not other bottles?  Surely our castaway would have beach combed for anything
useful.  I doubt that a bottle of benedictine would have been standard
lifeboat provisioning, and I also think it unlikely that in the excitement of
trying to get the lifeboats away someone on the N.C. would have thought "Hmm,
must rescue that bottle of Benedictine before the ship breaks up..."  Of
course stranger things have happened.

Earhart though had just been a guest of various French officials throughout
the African part of her trip.  There is at least one photograph that shows
her looking rather inebriated and holding what looks like a hip flask.
Actually it has always struck me as odd that Noonan is supposedly the drunk,
and Earhart is the only one photographed looking drunk.  It is quite possible
that Earhart or Noonan was given a bottle of Benedictine as a going away
present by one of their French hosts.

Our naked castaways.  Someting that aroused a little mirth on the forum was
my suggestion, learned by spending a few weeks as a virtual castaway myself,
was the suggestion that the lack of clothing and buttons found suggested the
castaway may have been naked.

Given that the buttons found at the 7 site may have come from the castaway or
other people, even Gallagher, there is rather more to it than that.

Both Earhart and Noonan wore belts - apparently, but by no means certainly -
leather.  There was no belt or buckle found with the bones despite part of
the pelvis and most of the thighs being found.  It is interesting that the
leather parts of the shoes appear to have disappeared but the rubber heel and
sole parts survived.  The belts may have disintegrated, but what of the
buckles?

[The rubber heel surivived?  That's new information to me.]

Pockets should have contained small personal treasures, but the only such
things were in the sextant box.  Noonan never went anywhere without a pen, so
it is possible he wasn't the castaway or we may have seen a journal in the
sextant box.  Actually one would imagine that if Noonan died, she might use
his pen for the same thing, even writing inside the box if there was no paper.

So what about the clothes?  What is one of the first things that happens when
you are in a stressfull situation with rationed food and water?  Weight loss!

If our castaway had been wearing clothes he/she should have been wearing a
belt.  If one or the other of Noonan or Earhart had died, I imaging the belt,
shirt and trousers would be salvaged by the other one.  I'd certainly have no
compunction about burying my recently dead companion in his/her underwear.
Speaking of underwear.  Although cotton decomposes rapidly, what of elastic?

If our castaway lived a while, his/her shirt and trousers would soon begine
to deteriorate.  Often sleeves are removed, and trouser legs are shortened to
create shorts.  Of course this is not a good move as the clothing provides
warmth and protection at night.

It is not hard to imagine the castaway wearing a shirt for protection from
the sun whilst not wearing trousers because of the discomfort.

Shoes, although one's feet do tend to toughen, would be cherished as they
allow access to places you can't easily go in bare feet.  That the castaway
still had shoes suggests he/she either treated them carefully or did not live
long enough to destroy them.

The evidence of the trails near the 7 site suggests the former and also
suggests the 7 site was in regular use despite the lack of an apparent
reliable water source at that end of the island.

The lack of personal items and the availability of a regular water supply
elsewhere could suggest the castaway did not live at the 7 site permanently.

I suspect that the 7 site has a lot more secrets to reveal, including some of
the longer bones that are missing.

[At last we can agree on something.]

I also suspect that somewhere on the island is the castaway's main camp site
and it may hold even more secrets.

Th' WOMBAT
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 3 Apr 2002 12:28:01 EST
From:         Tom Strang
Subject:      Re: Off Topic- Boeing crash

Ric,   For your continued interest - the cause may become more
interesting than one may first believe - Boeing folks are
different than most folks - there is alot of interest out here
about what happen to the "307" - the truth will surface.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Engineers await Stratoliner's fate
These are retired aircraft engineers. So as they await word on
the fate of "their" Boeing Model 307 Stratoliner, they are doing
what retired aircraft engineers do: They are telling stories.

* Read the full article at:
http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/local/64883_plane02.shtml
****************************************************************************
From David Kelly


Does the old saying "there are only two types of pilot, those who have
landing with their gear up and those who are about to" apply to fuel
selection also?

Regards
David (a very worried private pilot)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:52:53 EST
From:         Stuart Alsop
Subject:      Re: Great balls of fire.

> From Jon Watson
>
> It crossed my mind that if the fires were used for signalling during the day,
> the castaway could have thrown food leftovers in, in an effort to generate more
> smoke.

Wouldn't green vegetation (leaves, twigs, etc.) ripped off nearby plants
do a much better job of generating smoke, than clam shells and fish
heads?

Stuart
*********************************************************************
From Tom King

For Jon Watson -- it's certainly possible that the food leftovers went into
the fire to generate more smoke, and that the purpose of the fires was in
part to signal hoped-for rescuers.  Or the food leftovers might have gone
into the fire simply because the fire was there, having been where the food
was cooked, and it's better to throw fishbones in the fire than to have them
lying around poking into your feet.  I don't know of any way to find out.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:54:17 EST
From:         Mike Holt
Subject:      Re: Artifacts

> From Ric
>
> Wouldn't various types of wreckage from the ship exhibit a wide variety of
> properties - hull plates versus hatch covers versus Lord-knows-what?

Yes.  Somewhere around here I have a couple of articles on testing
steel and iron to determine where it was mined and exactly how it
was worked.  The articles were written by a Briton who was using
it to identify medieval artifacts.  Angus must have read the same
stuff.  (I do have an application for it, but it's not at all
relevant to this project.)

If I can find it, I'll send a link or the entire article to Ric.

Mike Holt
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:09:21 EST
From:         Tom Strang
Subject:      Off Topic - Boeing Crash

To view the entire article, go to
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134430549_stratoliner03.html

Tests begin on cause of Stratoliner crash in Elliott Bay

By Kyung M. Song

Seattle Times aerospace reporter

Divers are expected to return today to the spot where pilots ditched a Boeing
Stratoliner in Elliott Bay on Thursday, scavenging for missing parts that
could make the one-of-a-kind vintage plane nearly whole.

Investigators also today will begin tests to determine, among other things,
whether the four-engine aircraft went down because the fuel tank had run
empty.

Boeing is still mulling whether it would be feasible to restore the plane to
flight-worthy condition.

Yesterday, the company gave Associated Press (AP) and KING-TV journalists,
selected as pool reporters, a close-up look at the Stratoliner 307, which has
been hauled to a hanger behind Boeing's former corporate headquarters
building on East Marginal Way.

The Clipper Flying Cloud, first delivered to Pan Am in 1940, is structurally
intact. But the accident &#151; and the subsequent daylong immersion in salt
water &#151; left it looking hardly like a pampered airplane whose band of 30
volunteer restorers had formerly required onboard visitors to slip paper
booties over their shoes.

The damage tally included torn skin behind one wing, dented cowlings, swollen
wooden flooring and doors, a corroded aluminum skin and stained wall fabric.

The AP reported that the sea has left its mark in gray streaks and the threat
of internal corrosion. The crews are doing their best to counter that with
fresh water, a soap solution and Fels Naptha soap, a World War II-vintage
remedy.

 Inside, the carpeted wooden floors are spongy underfoot.

 The cockpit is bare with a few dangling wires, its instruments and radio
among the first essentials to be removed, dried and cleaned. The instrument
panel had to be recovered quickly; it's irreplaceable.

 All the blue-and-white-upholstered bench cushions on the starboard side have
been removed, though the roomy blue leather single seats on the port side
were still in place yesterday &#151; along with the rich leathery smell,
despite the damp.

 The embossed beige wall fabric &#151; rewoven for this plane in Pan Am's
signature global-map pattern and hand-sewn into place &#151; was stained by
the mix of salt water and hydraulic fluid that poured through the interior as
the plane was lifted out. The hope is to remove the fabric for cleaning
before the damage becomes permanent.

Boeing said it received dozens of e-mails from people offering to help make
the Stratoliner fly again. Boeing built just 10 Stratoliners before World War
II interrupted the airliner market, and the Clipper Flying Cloud is the sole
surviving version.

                                STEVAN MORGAIN / THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
The Boeing 307 Stratoliner sits on jack stands in a hangar near Boeing Field.
A test pilot ditched the plane in Elliott Bay last week after engine failure.
              Boeing used its own employees, volunteer labor and donated
materials during the seven-year restoration. Douglass Interior Products of
Bellevue donated blue Scottish leather for the single seats as well as
carpet.

John Hroncich, Douglass's vice president of sales and marketing, said the
company "most definitely" again would provide the material for free.

Meanwhile, the National Transportation Safety Board continues its probe into
why the Stratoliner's third engine surged unexpectedly before all four
engines failed.

 Kurt Anderson, a senior air-safety investigator with the Seattle office of
the safety board, said investigators will test the plane's fuel gauge as well
as the fuel-tank senders, which measures fuel levels and relays the signals
to the fuel gauge, for possible malfunction.

Anderson said one possible cause of the accident under examination is that
the aircraft simply ran out of fuel, but he said investigators are also
looking at other possibilities.

Kyung M. Song can be reached at 206-464-2423 or ksong@seattletimes.com.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:13:39 EST
From:         Ron Reuther
Subject:      Earhart Symposium at Western Aerospace Museum

We would appreciate it if you could send the following
announcement to the TIGHAR list.

An Amelia Earhart Symposiun is planned for May 17-19, 2002, at the
Western Aerospace Museum, at the Oakland Airport, Oakland, CA.  It will
commemorate the 65th Anniversary of the departure of Earhart and Fred
Noonan on their last flight and also, the 75th Anniversary of the
historic Oakland Airport.  The Western Aerospace Museum, the  Amelia
Earhart Society, The International Organization of Women Pilots (99's),
and the Port of Oakland are co-sponsoring the Symposium.

The Symposium will feature new interpretations not previously published
or released by researchers. Plans include two full days of panel
presentations by researchers with audience partiicpation encouraged; a
reception Friday night; a fromal dinner Saturday night featuring special
guests, and a narrated bus tour Sunday morning to the Oakland-Alameda
sites where Earhart and Noonan conducted their activities.

Reservation and registration information is available from the Western
Aerospace Museum at
   P.O. BOX 14264, OAKLAND, CA 94614, 510-638-7100, or from Ron Reuther
at 415-435-3951.
************************************************************************
From Ric

Because someone is bound to ask.... No.  TIGHAR will not be participating.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:59:48 EST
From:         Kenton Spading
Subject:      Jack as interpretor for Kilts

A while back, Tom King wrote:

>But maybe Jack was the interpreter.  Kilts is, after all, reporting what the
>interpreter said the informant said [about bones on Niku].

Ric replied:

>The point is, we know that Jack was on the island at the time we think the
>bones were found.   This hypothesis is getting pretty complicated if we're
>saying that Jack couldn't just tell the story himself because - what? - he
>didn't know about it?

I have been thinking about this.   I don't think Jack
as the interpreter has to complicate Tom's Kilt's hypothesis.
It is apparent that he very likely knew the story. But
that does not mean that he had first hand knowledge of the discovery or that
he witnessed or remembered the recovery/collection details. It is not too
hard to imagine a situation where Jack would ask one of his fellow natives
to fill in some details of the story that he was not sure about or did not
witness. Try this hypothesis.

It is approximately April 1940.

Jack is with a party of workers near the village.   At the same time, another
work party, lead by Koata, is working down on the southeast end of the island
clearing land. The SE party, which includes Koata and Kilt's Native Informant
(lets call him KNI), find a skull. Koata surveys the situation and tells
everyone to head back to the safety of the village.  Koata then promptly
buries the skull and makes tracks for the village as well.   Upon returning
to the the village, he instructs everyone that the area is off limits. In
September 1940 Gallagher shows up.   He asks why the clearing operation on
the SE end has stopped.   After a bit of cross examination, the skull story
is revealed.   Gallagher is intriqued and wants to examine the skull. No
one saw where Koata buried the skull, so Gallagher has to wait for Koata
(who is now in Tarawa) to return.   Later, when another work party is
dispatched to dig up the skull and look for other artifacts/bones, Jack
once again stays behind to attend to other duties.   Jack finally gets
to see the bones and artifacts after Gallagher has gathered them.

Years later, Kilts runs into Jack and, unlike the other natives, Jack can
speak English. Kilts is curious about the island's history so he begins to
shoot the bull with Jack. Jack loves the attention and decides to lay the
skull story on Kilts to spice up the "we arrived and planted cocos" story
line.   During subsequent questioning, Jack admits to not knowing all the
details as he was not with the work party when the skull was found but adds
that KNI was.  Kilts asks to meet KNI....Jack acts as the interpreter and
the rest is anecdotal history.

LTM
Kenton Spading (who often times consults with another to flesh the details of
an event shared by both of us)
**************************************************************************
From Ric

That works.  Of course, we don't know that Koata ever returned from Tarawa do
we?

But the big question would be whether Jack was on the island in 1946?  What
makes us think he was?  Why do we need him there?  Kilts talked to somebody
who apparently knew the story first-hand but whose English was not very good.
 That could be any of the laborers who were on the island in 1940 (we could
problably assemble a list of names if we needed to).  Then somebody had to
act as an interpreter, but there is no requirment in Kilts' story that the
interpreter also knew the story.

I just talked (again) to Leroy Neilson who was there when Unit 92 was
decommissioned.  He doesn't remember Kilts but he also does not remember Jack
Kima Petro or any foreman or reprsentative of that description.  He does
remember that some of the villagers spoke better English than others.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:07:20 EST
From:         Carol Dow
Subject:      Re: Artifacts

Donna McGuire at The Kansas City Star has a write-up this morning about Tali
Johnson, a Samoa native who lives in the area, who rescued from Savai'i,
Samoa, airplane parts that he thought were from Earhart's plane.

"As it turns out Lee Koepke, a Michigan mechanic who restored an Electra used
to trace Earhart's route, recently dug out his old parts manual. He said the
Electra used different suspension mounts, and at different places on the
engine mount structure, than what Johnson had found."  Ref:
www.kansascity.com...4-4-02, Donna McGuire,
article entitled "Could it have been Earhart's plane?"

End of story, but it made the front page. How about those apples?

Carol Dow #2524
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:11:35 EST
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Re: Great balls of fire.

I certainly don't dispute the fact that there is really
no way to tell about the fire/s, but when Ric (I think
it was Ric) mentioned in an earlier post that the
Colorado was within visual range of the island, it just
seemed to me that Amelia and/or Fred might have tried to
run up the biggest, smokiest fire they could on short
notice, and with whatever might be readily available
that would generate smoke.  Food leftovers seemed
logical to me.  Every time I cook outside, I drop
something through the grate, and it smokes like crazy...
ltm
jon
*************************************************************************
From Ric

They may have done that but almost certainly not from the Seven Site.  After
only seven days I would be very surprised if they had already located way
down there and it's doubtful that the Colorado would even have been visible
from there.  It's closest approach was to Nutiran.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:19:57 EST
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Re: Earhart Symposium at Western Aerospace Museum

Are we not participating because we weren't asked,
or because we declined?

It won't matter to me regardless, my Tighar event
calender is full for this summer!
ltm
jon
****************************************************************************
From Ric

TIGHAR was not invited to participate in the Amelia Earhart Society's
symposium, but we would have declined anyway and they probably know that.
The AES is made up primarily of devotees of various conspiracy theories and
their entire approach to research is different from ours.

"Never try to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:46:40 EST
From:          Suzanne Astorino
Subject:      Re: Found Plane Not Earhart's

Carol Dow wrote:

>From www.kansascity.com...4-4-02, Donna McGuire,
>article entitled "Could it have been Earhart's plane?"

Very interesting story!  The correct URL is:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/news/2993210.htm
for others who would like to read the article.
**************************************************************************
From Ric

We were peripherally involved in this from early on.  Tali Johnson phoned me
with his story and later Patrick Gaston called and we did a little
preliminary research.  I looked at a few pictures that Patrick forwarded and
made a few inquiries with various experts and it quickly became apparent (to
me anyway) that it was not worth spending any more time on.  Donna wanted to
pursue it and eventually wrote it up for the paper.

It's kind of interesting as an example of the judgement calls we frequently
have to make.  We simply can't afford to run down every possibility to its
bitter end, so we have to decide what to follow and what to dismiss.  The
"Love to Mother" telegram is a classic example.  We decided, when it first
came up, that it was ridiculous to think that it had anything to do with
Earhart and we wasted no time on it (and, in fact, "LTM" became enshrined as
shorthand for "Don't jump to stupid conclusions").  Our opinion was later
confirmed by those who had the time, or were willing to spend the time, to
thoroughly research it.  Of course, if we had been wrong and thorough
research had proved it to be significant, we would have felt pretty dumb.
That's the chance you take.   Tali's tale of airplane wreckage near Samoa
followed the same pattern.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:10:20 EST
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Great balls of fire.

The Colorado sailed on the northeastern side of Niku, not the southwestern
side.
**************************************************************************
From Ric

Looking at this more closely; Colorado came down from the north northwest
(roughly tracing the LOP) and turned east for Hull when she was about 10 or
11 miles out. (Freidell was giving the island a wide berth because he didn't
trust the charts.)  IF the ship could be seen from shore at that distance it
looks to me like it would have been visible from the northwest tip of Nutiran
(the closest point of approach) all the way down the long northeastern
shoreline - so, I was wrong.  Yes, theoretically it could have been visible
from the Seven Site if it could be seen from, at that point, about 11 or 12
nautical miles away.  It probably depends upon how tall her funnels were and
whether she was making visible smoke.

But, as I said, if AE and FN were there I would doubt that they had yet moved
down to the Seven Site.  If they were still hanging out near Norwich City, it
doesn't look to me like they would have had line of sight to Colorado at all.
 Colorado's look-outs only spotted the shipwreck because it is so far out
from the beach.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:42:52 EST
From:         Carol Dow
Subject:      Re: Found Plane Not Earhart's

Am tempted to add to what Ric said. I went to one of these so called seminars
and all I heard was pet theories. One party (with another party) not to mention
any names is writing a book about how British spies and American spies sneaked
into Earhart's airplane and set Noonan's chronometer back by 15 seconds....thusly,
they couldn't find Howland Island. And to prove the theory they claim the Itasca
was searching in an area that was off by 15 seconds navigational time. So, the
inference is that the Itasca knew about the plot. So, try having lunch with these
people and after while you'll come away cross-eyed. Wait, we're just getting
started....did you know there was two airplanes? One was N 16020 and one was
NR 16020 which proves there was two Earharts and two Noonans out snooping around
in Japanese held territory. With all due respects to their theories, I wish them
well, books or whatever they are attempting. Respectfully submitted to you all.

Carol Dow #2524
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 5 Apr 2002 14:44:19 EST
From:         Chris in Petaluma
Subject:      Nauticos

Does anyone know when Nauticos' ongoing expedition ends? Any
scuttlebutt on anything found?

Chris #2511
************************************************************************
From Ric

Haven't heard a peep.  There is not even any official confirmation that they
are out there (but they are).  If they were on-site on schedule (mid-March)
they should be wrapping up in the next week or so.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:31:42 EST
From:         Ron Bright
Subject:      Nikumaroro vs Mili

As everyone knows the Marshall Island folks made a commemorative stamp of the
Electra crashing at Mili Atoll and the Electra hanging off the stern of the
Koshu.

Not to be outdone, the latest version of business clip art cards, p 213, has
a commemorative clip art of "Earhart-Nikumaroro" Island symbol. Perfect for
Niku theorists who need a business card.

Maybe there were two Electras!!

LTM,
Ron Bright
*************************************************************************
From Ric

As I recall, some of the AES boys say there were something like five.

In 2000, not to be outdone by the Marshalls, Kiribati published both an
Earhart commemorative stamp and a Nikumaroro stamp.  They're already quite
rare.  We have a number of them on envelopes postmarked in Atchison on AE's
birthday.  Haven't decided what to do with them yet.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 6 Apr 2002 10:44:36 EST
From:         Dustymiss
Subject:      Re: Earhart Symposium at Western Aerospace Museum

Can't we all just get along?
************************************************************************
From Ric

There is certainly no animosity on this end toward those who hold different
opinions about what happened to good ol' Amelia, but there is spirited
disagreement about the standards and methodologies employed by the Conspiracy
Crowd and the Crashed-and-Sankers.  With limited resources, we simply don't
have the time to indulge in meaningless haggling.  That's why I cut off the
endless navigation speculation on the forum.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:31:24 EDT
From:         Alan R. Millen
Subject:      Re: Stamps, etc.

>In 2000, not to be outdone by the Marshalls, Kiribati published both an
>Earhart commemorative stamp and a Nikumaroro stamp.  They're already quite
>rare.  We have a number of them on envelopes postmarked in Atchison on AE's
>birthday.  Haven't decided what to do with them yet.

Sell or auction them as fund raisers.

>That's why I cut off the endless navigation speculation on the forum.<

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alan R. Millen
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:34:04 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Re: Artifacts

If that made front page in Kansas, I think I'll skip visiting.  It does
not sound like much happens in Kansas except tornados and flying houses.

Regards
David Kelly
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:37:19 EDT
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Earhart Symposium at Western Aerospace Museum

>That's why I cut off the endless navigation speculation on the forum.

Thought the forum had gone a bit quiet..  <grin>
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 8 Apr 2002 13:23:56 EDT
From:         S. Wesley Smith
Subject:      Kansas

Well David - since you have so much to offer that will improve the landscape
and the "happenings" in Kansas, why don't you move there and turn things
around?  If you don't wish to move, then kindly keep your condescension to
yourself.

Regards,
S. Wesley Smith
**************************************************************************
From Ric

Surely we can find something more productive to do than snipe back and forth
about Kansas.

I'm presently working on a summary of what we've been able to learn about our
two mysterious little fasteners; Artifacts 2-6-S-03a & -03b.  Once that is up
on the website I'll be eager to see what the forum thinks about it.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:52:37 EDT
From:         Carol Dow
Subject:      Re: Kansas

Let me explain to you that The Kansas City Star has an ongoing interest in Earhart
because she is a Kansas native. They give it a lot of attention. If it wasn't
for the fact that she was from Kansas originally born and raised a few miles up the Missouri
river from Kansas City I don't believe the coverage would mean that much to
them. Atchsion, Ks sits high on the bluffs overlooking the Missouri. It is
beautiful. The Kansas City Star  has an excellent journalism department
because they pull from the Univ. of Missouri at Columbia which is well known
for its journalism school. It's great to live in a city with a great
newspaper, i.e., The Dallas Morning News, The New York Times, The Los Angeles
Times, The St. Louis Post Dispatch. I would have to include The Kansas City
Star in that list. They are very good. If you have a computer,
what difference does it make where you live? It could be Santiago, Chile.
What if Donna McGuire didn't cover these Earhart stories....what would you want....silence?
At least she's doing it. So, why should anyone complain about the fact she's
in Kansas. At least she's somewhere, and people are sending her information
because they know it will make the paper. Is there anyone who wants to
complain about that?
My goodness.

Carol Dow #2524
************************************************************************
From Gary Payne

Well, oddly enough, the largest part of Kansas City is in Missouri.
There IS a Kansas City, Kansas.  It's much smaller than the Missouri side
and the Kansas City Star is published in Missouri.

For the record, I have never seen a tornado OR a flying house (except on TV
and in the movies!).

Neither do we have wooden sidewalks, cows running through the streets or
chickens in the yards.  At least, none of MY neighbors do . . .

                                            --gary
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 9 Apr 2002 10:55:25 EDT
From:         Jen
Subject:      Sextant box

Do you think the numbers on the box could be 1542 out of 3500 made?

The 3500 could be stenciled, because that number is constant. The other
number would be handwritten to denote the number of that specific box after
it was made.
**************************************************************************
From Ric

That is certainly one hypothesis.  How can we test it?
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:05:58 EDT
From:         Bob Perry
Subject:      Drum questions

At the risk of belaboring this point further --Bob Brandenburg's story is
certainly correct--I'll add a slight nuance.

The standard unit of volume of a petroleum product produced in a refinery is
the barrel, which, as has been said,  is 42 gallons. "Drums", on the other
hand, are normally 55 gal., and  there are smaller sizes, but 55 gal. was
undoubtedly the case here.  The point is that a 55 gal. drum can indeed hold
more than 42 gal., and the quantity of gasoline shipped or provided in a 55
gal. drum could have been  more than 42 gal., but no more than enough to
give sufficient outage to allow for expansion of liquid in the drum in that
hot climate.  What the practice was then, who knows, but I would guess that
13 gal. would be excessive, and 10 gal. max outage should be sufficient,
giving a container with 45 gal. in it. On the other hand, it could be 40-46
gal, ie, whatever the filler elected to do at the time.

In short, there would be nothing "standard" about filling a 55 gal drum with
42 gal. since the gasoline was undoubtedly provided Earhart  in so  many
gallons, not barrel units , and whatever could be safely provided in the
minimum no. of 55 gal. drums would have been the logical procedure.

LTM,
Bob Perry    #2021
****************************************************************************
From Ric

That's very interesting.  I had always assumed that a 55 gallon drum had 55
gallons of whatever in it.

Here's another drum question that may help us figure out who did what at the
Seven Site.  In addition to the square tank at the site there are also the
remains of a metal barrel or drum way over on the extreme east end of the
site (as we've been able to define it so far).  It's now little more than a
pile of rust but it appears to have originally been painted white and it's
quite a bit smaller than a standard 55 gallon drum.  I measured the surviving
ring that was the top or bottom at 25 inches in diameter and i estimated the
original height of the barrel at about 50 inches.  I wonder if that conforms
to some American or British standard.  If so, it could be a clue as to who
put it there.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:34:05 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Kansas

It's interesting to me that with all its interest in Earhart, the KC Star
hasn't seen fit to review "Amelia Earhart's Shoes," which the publisher sent
some months ago to the reporter Carol identified.

I'm scheduled to do a talk and book signing for the KC 99s at their meeting
in December; I wonder if the Star will notice.
**************************************************************************
From Ric

I'm forwarding a copy of this posting to Donna McGuire at the KC Star.
Surely she'll find a book about the most scientifically sound investigation
of the Earhart disappearance ever undertaken as worthy of ink as some
obviously-not Earhart related wreckage in Samoa.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:57:32 EDT
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      R: sextant box

> From Jen
>
> Do you think the numbers on the box could be 1542 out of 3500 made?
>
> The 3500 could be stenciled, because that number is constant. The other
> number would be handwritten to denote the number of that specific box after
> it was made.
> From Ric
>
> That is certainly one hypothesis?  How can we test it?

Easy, there is Ludolph sextant for sale right now on E-bay, buy it and look at
the box.

gl
*************************************************************************
From Ric

That's a 1965 sextant.  The serial number is 14596.
We already know that Ludolph did not put numbers on the boxes.
*************************************************************************
From Kerry

Even if this hypothesis is correct, it is of little value unless the records
of the company that made the box are intact and detailed enough to give us
information like year of manufacture and to whom the box was delivered.
I think a useful pursuit with regards to the box markings would be to try
and locate a sextant box of known provenience with the same kind of numbers
on it. Antique shops, maritime museums and internet auction sites are all
potential sources.
***************************************************************************
From Ric

This is a road well-traveled.   When we first learned about the box found on
Niku we had researchers in the U.S. and in Europe look for sextant boxes with
numbers - any numbers - stencilled or written on the outside of the box.  Of
an estimated 500 boxes checked, we found only one that had numbers written on
the outside.  That was the Ludolph in the U.S. Navy collection that had once
belonged to Fred Noonan.
*************************************************************************
From Dean A 2056

This would mean that the company knew ahead of time that they were going to
produce 3500 copies. With high quality instruments of this type I think it
would be highly unlikely they would run a batch that large??
************************************************************************
From Ric

At least in the case of the Ludolph company we know that serial numbers were
assigned sequentially to all products made by the company, so for example,
Ludolph product 3500 might be a sextant and Ludolph product 3501 might be a
chronometer.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:09:18 EDT
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Re: Drum questions

Someone has done a study of airplane auxiliary fuel tanks in the Pacific.
After they were jettisoned, they often floated ashore, and were used as rain
barrels and such.  Is there any chance that this is what the "small barrel"
was?   Daniel Postellon
**************************************************************************
From Ric

Not unless someone was using steel, flat-ended drums as airplane aux. tanks.
**************************************************************************
From Veryl Fenlason

The measurements you gave for the white drum sounded a little stange so I
went out to the storage shed and measured afew of ours, and one of them was
a real oldie. The 55 gal druns are 22 1/2 in. by 35 in. The 30 gal. drums
are 18 1/2 in. by 29 in.

Veryl in mn.
****************************************************************************
From Ric

Sheesh.  By that measure a drum with a 25 inch top and height of 50 inches
would be unusually big, not small.
****************************************************************************
From Angus Murray

Whilst my knowledge of oil drums is slight to say the least, I must raise a
few points. A modern 55 gallon drum is about 24 x 35 inches external giving
a gross volume of approx 68.5 US gallons.  A 25 x 50 drum is therefore
bigger not smaller. This also begs the question as to whether a "55 gallon"
drum was actually the ultimate capacity or the nominal usable volume. A
modern 55 gallon drum can, it would appear from the calculation, actually
holds about 65 gallons so it would appear that one would indeed expect to
get at least 55 gallons from a modern "55 gallon" drum.

>That's very interesting.  I had always assumed that a 55 gallon drum had 55
>gallons of whatever in it.

So I think you're right Ric. I find it difficult to believe that one would
call it a 55 gallon drum if you didn't expect to get that out of it.
Certainly in a military context it would be too confusing.

25 x 50 inches gives a gross volume of about 106 US gallons. This would be
88.5 British Imperial gallons. If we allow the same percentage dead space,
(20% approx) the nominal capacity is 85 US gallons or 71 Imperial gallons.
Perhaps someone can tell us if there were any US or British container sizes
close to these figures. The nominal capacity may be a little less if Ric has
used external dimensions. My guess is that we Brits used 25 gallon
increments. 71 gallons could then represent a British 75 gallon drum
especially if they allowed less expansion space. A likely internal
measurement in Britain would be 24 x 48. This gives 78 gallons ultimate
capacity and a possible 75 gallons nominal capacity.

Regards Angus.
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Very odd, and now of course I wish I had paid closer attention to measuring
what was left of the barrel.  It was really just an afterthought.  I did have
the impression that the barrel was different than the ones we see up in the
village.  I'll have to see what we have in the way of photos.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 10 Apr 2002 11:10:58 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Re: Kansas

My comments were really on that the story appeared to be a story about
not having a story which seemed unusual.  They were not a "dig" at
Kansas.

Regards
David
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:18:20 EDT
From:         Craig
Subject:      Another bad idea

  Although this is relating to Earhart, it's about as
off-topic as you can get while still containing the
name AE.  I've taken it from aintitcool.com, a
web-site about movies.  Their information is usually
pretty accurate.  Cross your fingers this idea will
suffer a crash-and-sink fate.

  I especially like the part where he says "I Was
Ameila Earhart" is a tragedy for fictionalizing and
trivializing AE's life, but then proceeds to tell the
story the way he has, even changing the known facts
about Putnam to add drama...

"Last week we announced Director Richard Martini and
Producer Phil Noyce's plans for the Amelia Earhart
biopic, and today Martini tells Moviehole more about
the production. "This is not "I Was Amelia Earhart"
where she winds up on a deserted island carrying on a
romantic liaison with her navigator. Apologies to
those who've worked on that piece, but Amelia gave up
her life for the pursuit of her dreams - to
fictionalise, or trivialize that, is in my opinion, a
travesty.

"The facts of what happened to her after she crashed
in the Pacific have been available, albeit in bits and
pieces, since the 1960's; no one has put them together
in a script that I'm aware of. That being said, I'm
surprised that this story hasn't been shopped around
for years", Martini says.

Martini's story runs much deeper. "George Putnam heard
some rumors at the end of World War II what might have
happened to his wife and flew to Saipan in 1945 to
learn the truth. The story follows his search for her.
We learn bits and pieces of what really happened
courtesy of the islanders who witnessed it; her crash
near Mili Atoll, her plane being picked up by a
Japanese seaplane tender - one witness was an island
doctor (still alive) who tended to them aboard the
ship and witnessed a Japanese officer speaking to
Amelia in English.

"George finds out they were taken to Saipan where she
and her navigator Fred Noonan were put in Garapan
prison. (part of the tour nowadays, in Garapan) The
Japanese apparently found the two US Navy cameras
hidden inside her plane (presumably to take footage of
Japanese activities over the Marianas), a fact
recently confirmed here in the U.S. by the man who put
them in her plane - Amelia and Fred were held in
prison as spies for a number of years - George finally
interviews an eyewitness who revealed that while the
US was shelling the island during the War, she was
taken to a tree, offered a blindfold, which she
refused, and she was shot.

"He also learns how the first wave of US Marines that
went ashore found out what happened to her (one of
those Marines whom I ran into on a flight recently,
confirmed this part of the story), and her and Fred's
remains were recovered in 1945. Despite all of these
eyewitness reports - the story was buried with her. In
reality George returned from Saipan and said he'd
learned nothing about what happened to Amelia - in our
version, it's so painful, his guilt so great, that he
chooses not to tell it.

"It's a tragic love story, but a story of heroes, and
it's about time someone told it. "Phillip Noyce is
attached to produce, and I'm directing from my
original script. I met Phillip in Cannes a few years
back, we talked about the story, he didn't believe it,
then I showed him some of the evidence, interviews,
etc. that I've gathered over the years. After asking
why anyone hasn't told this story before, he agreed to
help at that moment".

"As for casting, no names can be revealed as yet but
"Amelia was one of the most enigmatic, magnetic
personas of the last century. Her husband was equally
a force of nature - we're looking for actors that can
capture their essence". Martini says he would like to
make the film in Australia and it will hopefully be
ready for audiences in 2003."

Craig in Kingston, Ont.
****************************************************************************
From Ric

Lots of movies never get made.  Let's hope this is one of them.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:25:11 EDT
From:         Mike Muenich
Subject:      Sextant box

Did Ludoph make the boxes or were they outsourced?  We have looked at the
potential info re the sextant itself, but if the boxes were outsourced to a
manufacturer, the manufacturer of the boxes may have additional info or
records
**************************************************************************
From Ric

Don't know for sure but I strongly suspect that they were made in house.
I'll try to find out.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:30:20 EDT
From:         Patrick Gaston
Subject:      KC Star article

You know, for the first time in years a reporter for a major daily newspaper
takes an active interest in the Earhart saga, and this Forum responds with
(a) musta been a slow news day in Kansas [BTW the Star is published in Kansas
City, MISSOURI]; and (b) Tom King's complaint that Donna McGuire, whose job
is not reviewing books, didn't review his book.

Donna's article about Tali Johnson grew out of her excellent pre-Niku IV
story on the various schools of thought as to AE's fate.  For a
cover-the-waterfront piece it was well-researched, well-written and, in
general, the most evenhanded treatment of the subject matter I had seen in
years.

Tali Johnson's story was not earth-shattering, but it >was< intriguing.  For
a while we thought he might have stumbled -- or paddled -- upon the wreckage
of the Samoan Clipper, a Sikorsky S-42 (NC 16734) which went down in 1938
with all hands, including pioneering transoceanic aviator Eddie Musick.
According to www.planecrashinfo.com, "Neither the plane nor six crew members
were ever found."  As it turned out, however, the Samoan Clipper was lost on
approach to Pago Pago, which is a couple hundred miles from Tali's wreck
site.  So the jury's still out on exactly what Tali found -- and while it's
almost certainly not an Electra, it could well be a pre-war relic.
(Interestingly,Tali told me that the fishermen on his home island had kept
the wreckage a secret all these years because they didn't want anyone horning
in on their best fishing grounds!)

When a reporter takes an interest in the Earhart saga, or historic aviation
in general, she deserves this Forum's applause and not its sniping.  I, for
one, hope Donna maintains her interest in AE and look forward to her next
byline.

LTM and TTTS (Thanks To The Star),
Pat Gaston
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:32:37 EDT
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Drum questions

> I measured
> the surviving ring that was the top or bottom at 25 inches in diameter and
> I estimated the original height of the barrel at about 50 inches.  I wonder
> if that conforms to some American or British standard.  If so, it could be
> a clue as to who put it there.

There is a drum that is close.  My fuel dump supplies were always delivered
in 3 standard fuel drum sizes and as they are still in common use here, they
should be in the US.  Unfortunately although they are all the same capacity,
local generic terminology makes it confusing.

Oddly, I believe the metric (Litres) capacity is the fairly accurate one and
the imperial/US have always been used locally in the respective areas for
convenience.

I suspect your drum might be the middle one.
The drums supplied to Earhart are the last one.
The first one is round, but happens to be the same capacity as the "Jerry Can".

Common Name 4 imperial gallon/20 Litre/5 US gallon
Common Name 12 imperial gallon/55 Litre/15 US gallon
Common Name 44 Imperial gallon/200 Litre/55 US  gallon

My diesel came in 44 gallon, avgas came in 44 gallon, petrol came in 44 and
12 gallon, kerosene came in 12 and 4 gallon and oil came in 4 gallon.

I don't remember which other combinations each fuel was available in.  We
ordered in the sizes that were convenient for our aircraft and transport
vehicles and serviceability at our isolated fuel dumps.

Th' WOMBAT
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:38:57 EDT
From:         Mike Haddock
Subject:      Re: Sextant box

I wouldn't be suprised at all if Ludolph did indeed outsource the boxes. Even
in the van conversion business I was in for thirty years, we ousourced our
wooden appointments in the coach. Woodworking is a nasty business and I think
Ludolph wouldn't want sawdust flying around where precision machine work was
being done. Just a thought.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:31:59 EDT
From:         Carol Dow
Subject:      Re: KC Star article

I would like to add something else to what Pat Gaston said:

Across the wide Missouri in St. Louis lies the Pulitzer Publishing company.
If you wanted a Pulitzer prize for literature or playwriting you would wind
up in the hierarchy of The St. Louis Post Dispatch. Missouri, in particular,
prides itself on journalism. The Univ. of Mo. at Columbia runs the city
newspaper using students (almost exclusively)  from the journalism school. It
is really very good, and I believe it may be the supply source for some of
the excellent reporting we get around here. So Kansas City is on one side and
St. Louis is on the other side, and these bluffs around here produce some
interesting real life characters, i.e., Mark Twain, Harry Truman, Jesse
James, Amelia Earhart....not many, really, but interesting ones...
for sure. As Garrison Keeler would say....so it is from the grass roots and
the wheat farms of the U.S. of  A.

Carol Dow #2524
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:42:24 EDT
From:         Mike Van Holsbeck
Subject:      Re: sextant box

I am more fasinated with the fact that no sextant boxes with numbers
stenciled on them were found when looking for possible matches let alone
anything with a sequence in the 35xx range.... except one that used to
belong to a guy named Fred Noonan.  Hmmmmm

But do these have to be Ludolphs numbering scheme?  Did he have to buy it
"factory direct"?  Where might he have bought the one in the museum?  Mabey
they were stock numbers from a merchant that had many navigational items.
Did the Airline he worked for buy a big group of these for thier navigators
and these were the company's "inventory" numbers?  I just think looking
through Ludolph papers for this may be a waste of time.  If you make a fine
precission instrument and put it in a "finely" crafted box, the last thing
you would want to do is paint and scribble on it before someone buys it.
But, Once bought by a company to be used as a tool and has a reason for
keeping track of them may not care about the look of the box.  I just think
that the stencil and scribbled numbers came closer to end user as apposed to
point of manufacture.

My $.02

Mike in Lakewood CA
***************************************************************************
From Ric

We've been able to find no indication that Pan Am put numbers on their boxes.
Remember also that Harold Gatty saw the Niku box and could make no sense of
the numbers.

So far all we know for certain is that:
- Noonan owned at least one Ludolph.
- The box containing Noonan's known Ludolph has the number 3547 written on
the bottom.
- The Ludolph sextant in that box has a much earlier serial number than 3547.
- There are indications that the box was used for other instruments as well.
- The box found on Niku had the number 3500 stenciled on it.
-  Ludolph at some time prior to 1952 made a product (we can't be sure it was
a sextant) with the serial number 3500.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:01:35 EDT
From:         ross devitt
Subject:      Re Drum questions

> From Ric
>
> Very odd, and now of course I wish I had paid closer attention to measuring
> what was left of the barrel.  It was really just an afterthought.  I did
> have the impression that the barrel was different than the ones we see up
> in the village.  I'll have to see what we have in the way of photos.

Just curious, how did you estimate the height of the drum?
I've only ever received bulk fuel and oil in the 3 sizes, although there are
probably others available.

Th' WOMBAT
****************************************************************************
From Ric

My measurment of the diameter of the top should be fairly accurate because
more than fifty percent of the rim was present.  Estimating the height was
much shakier and is basically just a guess based upon the surviving fragments.
****************************************************************************
From Richard Young

FYI:  A fifty-five gallon drum has the following dimensions: Outside height
-  35 inches  Inside height - 33 1/4 inches  Diameter, inside 22 1/2 inches,
outside 24 inches.   This from numerous web locations.  Ric, I suspect your
remains are, in fact from a 55 gallon drum - you may be confusing that size
with much larger drums that are sometimes used to hold fuel for boats and
small ships, and sometimes military vehicles, that hold either 85 or 110
gallons.  How confident of your height  estimate are you?
**************************************************************************
From Ric

Not very.
****************************************************************************
From Christian D

>  From Dan Postellon
>  Someone has done a study of airplane auxiliary fuel tanks in the Pacific.
>  After they were jettisoned, they often floated ashore, and were used as rain
>  barrels and such.  Is there any chance that this is what the "small barrel"
>  was?   Daniel Postellon
>  **************************************************************************
>  From Ric
>  Not unless someone was using steel, flat-ended drums as airplane aux. tanks.

Gee!  I never thought of that one.  But then an auxilliary aircraft tank
might fit better the description of that "other" tank, for which we got a
sketch recently.  Ric, I can't remember exactly "which" tank that was? It was
seen by the Coasties, I think...  It was sort of flatish, set up on its
narrow side...  What was the shape of them aux tanks, Dan? Nicely
streamlined, or just parallel sided, like in the sketch?

Cheers.
Christian D
***************************************************************************
From Ric

There is like zero chance that either the square tank or the barrel at the
Seven Site is aviation-related.  They're both made of steel and decidedly
unaerodynamic.
***************************************************************************
From Christain D

> By that measure a drum with a 25 inch top and height of 50 inches
> would be unusually big, not small.

Well: if my calculator is correct, given a 22.5 by 35 drum at 55 gal, then,
PROPORTIONALLY, a 25 by 50 drum is 97 gal (NOT 106, sorry...) Could it be a
"2-barrel" drum???  2times 42 being 84...

But then does everybody measure inside?

May be you have a "tank", not a drum, Ric?

As for dead space: my experience with modern plastic jerry jugs is that they
can be forced to take quite a bit more than what is stamped on the side.
Ditto with the plastic drum I sometime use.  I would'nt be surprised by a 10%
or so air space -but then I am not qualified as a "Drum Choir" player...

Christian D

PS: this being Tighar, when is the "Drum Choir" going to be set up?
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:02:32 EDT
From:         Lawrence
Subject:      Re: KC Star article

I don't think anyone on this Forum is suggesting one state in the union is
better than the other. I believe they were just "poking" fun because things
are a little slow now. Let us keep our heads and keep the main objective in
sight.
Thanks, Lawrence from California, the best state in the Union.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:07:32 EDT
From:         Thomas Van Hare
Subject:      Re: sextant research

Mike Van Holsbeck wrote:

> I am more fascinated with the fact that no sextant boxes with numbers
> stenciled on them were found when looking for possible matches let alone
> anything with a sequence in the 35xx range.... except one that used to
> belong to a guy named Fred Noonan.  Hmmmmm

Actually, and I'll have to check on this, but I recall that last year we
also found US Navy records of four digit issue numbers for such equipment in
the same general range of 3500. The USN, as you probably know, loves
stenciling on everything they can and numbered and cataloged everything as
well. Sadly, we can't find the BuNav or BuAir records for issuing
sextants/octants -- probably destroyed -- even if we did find the ones for
watches (yes, they even numbered the watches when issuing them!).
*************************************************************************
From Ric

If it was the Navy's practice to stencil inventory numbers on sextant boxes
it should be easy to find examples.  Our experience has been that government
issue sextants came in boxes with little brass plates that specified the
model and serial number.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:12:27 EDT
From:         Tom Strang
Subject:      Re: sextant research

     Were there Ludolph navigation instruments on board Norwich City at the
time of her grounding?

Respectfully:
Tom Strang
***************************************************************************
From Ric

We don't know and there is probably no way to find out.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:09:28 EDT
From:         Christian
Subject:      Re: sextant research

I disagree with the idea of the outsourced boxes.

In those years companies were proud to deliver "the whole thing" out of their
house.

Remember the patents a fellow forumite cited some days ago.

One of them dealt with the way to fix a sextant in the box, which shows that
Ludolph cared a lot for the boxes.

Regards
Christian
***************************************************************************
From Ric

I tend to agree.  Even the term "outsource" is very recent.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:56:39 EDT
From:         Mark
Subject:      Re Drum questions

> Christian D
>
> PS: this being Tighar, when is the "Drum Choir"
> going to be set up?

Err, wouldn't "drum corps" be a bit more musically
appropriate?

:-)

Mark in Horse Country
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:57:51 EDT
From:         angus murray
Subject:      Re: drum questions

Christian,

> Well: if my calculator is correct, given a 22.5 by 35 drum at 55 gal, then,
> PROPORTIONALLY, a 25 by 50 drum is 97 gal (NOT 106, sorry...)

This is only true if you use internal dimensions. However, you are comparing
apples with pears. The 97 represents a nominal capacity, the 106 represents a total
capacity. (You should be saying 97 gal NOT 85 gal )

I assumed Ric used external dimensions (because
generally they're easier to measure) and then proportionally the NOMINAL
size is 85 gallons for a 25 x 50 external size drum as compared with a 24 x
35 external size 55 gallon drum. However, this allows no free space. If the
percentage free is the same as for the 55 gal drum (20% approx) then 0.2 x
106 = 21, 106 -21 = 85 as before.

Regards Angus
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:24:38 EDT
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Re Drum questions

Richard young said:

> Ric, I suspect your
> remains are, in fact from a 55 gallon drum - you may be confusing that size
> with much larger drums that are sometimes used to hold fuel for boats and 
> small ships, and sometimes military vehicles, that hold either 85 or 110
> gallons.  How confident of your height  estimate are you?

It is interesting however that 85 gallons is apparently a US nominal capacity
as that is exactly the figure one reaches by proportionality
from the 55 gallon size assuming that Ric measured his dimensions
externally. Well Ric - did you?

Regards Angus.
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Yes.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:29:34 EDT
From:         Jen
Subject:      Patent Number

Could the patent number on the artifact be 191138 ? It's from a Japanese
sextant.
*************************************************************************
From Ric

We don't (yet) know what the number is, but if it's from a Japanese sextant
with that patent number then that type of Japanese sextant will have a knob
just like 2-6-S-45.  Does it?
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:08:37 EDT
From:         Christian D
Subject:      Re Drum questions..  Also: Aluminum Trade patterns.

>  There is like zero chance that either the square tank or the barrel at the
>  Seven Site is aviation-related.  They're both made of steel and decidedly
>  unaerodynamic.

OK, Ric, I dug out my source!  <G>

I'm not talking about the 2 steel tanks Tighar found, but about the tank
found by Evans, and the sketch he made (see page 118 in the book "AE's
shoes").  May be THAT tank could be a jettisonned aux tank: for some reason
the drawing shows at least 2 rounded edges.  (Although now that I think of
it: who would have a need of using aux tanks, EAST of Niku, to windward...

This leads me to a (unfortunately looong) posting I have been chewing on for
months, and that I would title: "Patterns in the Aluminum Trade, in the
Phoenix Islands, in the early PISS era".

The bottom line of which is: until WW-II reached the Phoenix, Tighar believes
there was only one "mine" of aluminum, (that the Gilbertese were fond of),
and it was on Gardner. Later in the war and after it, aluminum came <TO> Niku
from the other Islands. BUT in the early years, it is rather certain that the
Gardner settlers traded some of their stash with their neighbors.

So what are the chances that at this very minute there is a "smoking gun"
sitting somewhere in the old village on Orona Island? Possibly quite easy to
find? Is Orona worth 10% of Tighar's time? Five per cent?  A quik reckon?  I
understand contract workers are active on Orona at this time...

Regards.

Christian D.
***************************************************************************
From Ric

I think that the hypothesis that the tank Evans saw  in 1944 and sketched
nearly 50 years later is a different tank than the one we found at the Seven
Site is pretty hard to support.  If Evans saw a different tank, where did it
go?  Have we not found the same site that Evans described?  It's pretty much
right where he said it was and we've found other things that his companion,
Herb Moffitt, says were there (birds bones, fire).  It seems clear that a
seaparate "sighting" by another Coast Guard veteran - Glen Geisinger - of a
tank used by the colonists to collect water is, in fact, the Seven Site tank
because it has the repaired bullet holes described by Geisinger, even though
he puts it's location much farther up the beach than the Seven Site.  These
are anecdotes.  People remember stuff wrong.  You can't take every detail as
fact.

<<BUT in the early years, it is rather certain that the
Gardner settlers traded some of their stash with their neighbors.>>

It is?  It's pretty clear that at some point some B-24 parts were imported to
Niku from somewhere, most logically Canton, but I see no reason to assume
that the colonists on Niku were exporting aluminum.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:13:14 EDT
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: drum questions

>> Well: if my calculator is correct, given a 22.5 by 35 drum at 55 gal, then,
>> PROPORTIONALLY, a 25 by 50 drum is 97 gal (NOT 106, sorry...)
>
> This is only true if you use internal dimensions. However, you are comparing
> apples with pears. The 97 represents a nominal capacity, the 106 represents a total
> capacity. (You should be saying 97 gal NOT 85 gal )

You have to be a bit careful trying to nail down exact capacities of fuel
drums.  In different parts of the world exactly the same drum is called by
different volumes.

In Australia, the drums Earhart received her fuel in are commonly called 44
gallon drums.  These days as we are "Metric" we call the same drums 200 Litre
drums.  In the US the same drums are called 55 gallon drums,

The drums actually have a capacity close to 205 Litres.
That's 45 Imperial Gallons (UK and Aus)
Or 54 US Gallons.

I still suspect the Smaller drum Ric found is the same as our 60 Litre drum.
13 Imperial Gallons
Close to 16 US Gallons.

I checked with our local fuel supplier and the 60 Litre is mostly used for
Oil these days, although special fuels still come in them.

If no-one else gets around to it I'll measure one when I'm next at the fuel
depot.  (Some time this week).

Th' WOMBAT
**************************************************************************
From Ric

From what I've ssen here on the forum, the drum I measured was actually
larger than a 55 gallon drum.  I'll say again that my measurment of the
diameter at 25 inches should be pretty close but the 50 inch height is more
of a guess.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:16:01 EDT
From:         Gary LaPook
Subject:      Navigational resources

Here is a link to a web site that has many navigational resources
relevant to Earhart research.:  http://www.geocities.com/fredienoonan
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:08:56 EDT
From:         Dave in Fremont
Subject:      Re: drum questions

Sorry, Ric, but isn't this drum tangent approaching the LOP discussion in
inverse relevence?

Dave
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Sort of.  All I wanted to know was whether the apparent unusual size of the
barrel at the Seven Site might be a clue to where it came from.  Ask the
forum what time it is and the forum will tell you how to make a watch and
then discuss the meaning of time.

I guess it's just a barrel.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:09:52 EDT
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: drum questions

> From Ric
>
> From what I've ssen here on the forum, the drum I measured was actually
> larger than a 55 gallon drum.  I'll say again that my measurment of the
> diameter at 25 inches should be pretty close but the 50 inch height is more
> of a guess.

You're right.  I read your comment and went outside and measured one of my 44
(55US) gallon standard fuel drums.  (Just happen to keep a few in the yard).
It is 23" x 35" outside measurements.

Interestinger and interestinger.  I never measured a 44 before, they just
look bigger than they are.

Th' WOMBAT
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:39:21 EDT
From:         Christian D
Subject:      Also: Aluminum Trade patterns.

>  I think that the hypothesis that the tank Evans saw  in 1944 and sketched
>  nearly 50 years later is a different tank than the one we found at the Seven
>  Site is pretty hard to support.

Ric: I'm not "convinced"  that the 2 "sightings" are of different artifacts.
Seems to me that there is not much support one way or the other; and that
it's too quick a jump to say they are  just one and the same?

>  If Evans saw a different tank, where did it
>  go?

In over half a century lots of things can happen! No reason to assume that
ANY and EVERY Amelia-related articfact has been patiently waiting for Tighar
all these years.  Manufactured tanks were very valuable to the settlers, and
they are likely to keep them wherever they move.  And if Evans tank was
aluminum, it is even more valuable!

> Have we not found the same site that Evans described?  It's pretty much
>  right where he said it was and we've found other things that his companion,
>  Herb Moffitt, says were there (birds bones, fire).

Because the 2 sightings were in the same location doesn't necessarily mean
there was only one. Plus Geisinger's recollection is of bullet holes, while
Evans is of a tank so narrow  it needed piles of coral rubble around it to
keep it upright...     Agreed: Tighar found "Geisinger's tank"....

>  It seems clear that a
>  seaparate "sighting" by another Coast Guard veteran - Glen Geisinger - of a
>  tank used by the colonists to collect water is, in fact, the Seven Site tank
>  because it has the repaired bullet holes described by Geisinger, even though
>  he puts it's location much farther up the beach than the Seven Site.  These
>  are anecdotes.  People remember stuff wrong.  You can't take every detail as
>  fact.
>
>  <<BUT in the early years, it is rather certain that the
>  Gardner settlers traded some of their stash with their neighbors.>>
>
>  It is?  It's pretty clear that at some point some B-24 parts were imported to
>  Niku from somewhere, most logically Canton, but I see no reason to assume
>  that the colonists on Niku were exporting aluminum.

Then, conversely,  by the same token, if later on B-24 parts were traded TO
Gardner, why assume that earlier on (and even post WW-II) the Gardner
colonists were not trading some of their loot OUT, when they were the only
ones to have access to aluminum?  Agreed we haven't seen any signs of it
-but we haven't looked either.  Personally I find it quite likely.  In the
early years the colonists situation was very precarious, and I don't see why
they would NOT have helped each other: the people on the 3 islands were "in
the same boat"   and very isolated from the Gilbert supplies.  Plus, as early
as WW-II, pieces of aluminum inlaid in a Kanawa box, were on their way to the
States, in Dr Mims baggages.

We should not forget that for no less than 25 years the colonists had
complete control of every single "thing" that we now call "AE related
artifacts".

Regards

Christian D.
***************************************************************************
From Ric

I agree that lots of things may have happened - in fact, surely did happen -
that we don't know about.  We constantly hypothesize about what might have
happened and then try to test the hypothesis by looking for hard evidence.
Of course, we're usually wrong, but that's the nature of the beast.

Unfortunately, testing the hypothesis that the early PISS settlers exported
Earhart aluminum to Hull and Sydney (the other two settled islands) would be
very expensive.  Every day of an expedition costs about $5,000 in ship time
alone.  Nipping from Niku over to Orona (Hull) could be done overnight (about
12 hours), but how many days would you spend searching the old village for
airplane parts?  One? Two?  And then would you continue on another half day's
voyage to Manra (Sydney) for what - one or two more days?  There you'd be
dealing with the fact that there was a known C-47 crash during the war so
there there is probably lots of "noise."  Incidentally, no C-47 parts have
turned up on Niku.  Bottom line: Is it worth somewhere in the neighborhood of
$20,000 and the corresponding amount of time NOT spent at Niku to test a
hypothesis for which there is no supporting evidence?  If we had an anecdotal
account or, better yet, a mention in a ship's manifest, of aluminum being
taken from Niku to one of the other islands, it might be worth a shot - or -
if somebody said, "I'll buy you four additional days if you use them to check
out Hull and Sydney." I'd say, "What the heck."

By the way, it's a mistake to think of the three settlements of the PISS as
linked by frequent trade.  The only transportation between islands was by
infrequent government ships who took people on officially approved passage
only.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Apr 2002 12:41:03 EDT
From:         Richard Young
Subject:      drums - some more

Angus Murray said:

> that is exactly the figure one reaches by proportionality
>  from the 55 gallon size assuming that Ric measured his dimensions
>  externally.

...and I can't disagree.  The least expensive way to enclose a space in a
cylinder, in terms of material used, results in a cylinder twice as tall as
the diameter of its ends.  You will find that most of your canned goods are
in cans of these proportions, for just this reason.  The (nominal) 85 gallon
drum would allow more of an item to be carried in the same "footprint" of a
55 gallon drum, in circumstances where the additional height and weight
aren't a problem.  One of the reasons the "gallons" measurements are off on
all of these drums is that most drums have a removable endcap, allowing the
drum to be fitted with a liner, (modern drums use a form of plastic), to
enable transport of items that would physically, galvanicly, or chemically
attack the steel of the drum.  As for potential use as an aircraft auxiliary
tank, I don't think the 85 gallon drum tank is a good candidate.  It is too
small to contribute much to the range of a bomber, and in a bomber's bomb
bay is the only logical place to mount such an unaerodynamic beast.
However, as a deck or hold storage of supplemental fuel or lubricating oil
for a small motor vessel, it makes a lot of sense, and could have easily
been lost "overboard" in heavy seas.

LTM, (who sometimes kept her janitor in a drum, it was rumored...)
Rich Young
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 16 Apr 2002 13:59:10 EDT
From:         Sharon
Subject:      Amelia's feet

My name is Sharon and I am a "newbie" to the TIGHAR forum digest.  I admire
all of you so much!  I've been lurking for almost a month, and have
thoroughly enjoyed all of the discussions.

Amelia has been a love of mine since I was a child.  My grandmother
idolized her, and told me stories about Amelia and how she would have loved
to been able to fly like Amelia did.  Growing up in the late 60's feminist
movement, of course made me appreciate the courage this woman had to do the
things she did.  A woman way ahead of her time.....but because of her and
others, the way was paved for the rest of us. (Well, maybe not paved, but
certainly the ruts were smoothed out ;)).

Anyhow, I read anything I can get my hands on about Amelia, so
naturally, I found your web site.  I would just like to say that I am
intrigued by the "shoe" thing....being a woman, of course I would be.  Amelia
was known to have had "impossibly narrow" feet.  Just take a look at pictures
of her next to other women, and you'll see that her feet were also not "big".
 Maybe next to an Asian woman's they would be....Just 2 cents worth because I
just finished "Amelia Earharts Shoes" and it was something that just bothered
me, so I started viewing all the pics I could find to compare her foot size.
(See what you start??)

From everything I've read, all theories included, I believe you are
on the right track.   I'll keep on lurking..... and am sending the blessings
of the Goddess to you for luck. (Hey, it can't hurt!)
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Thanks Sharon.  Given that the woman died only 65 years ago and that she was
a frequently photographed celebrity, and a few examples of shoes she owned
still exist, you'd think that it would be possible to reach a consensus about
the size of her feet - but it isn't.  It seems that Amelia's foot size is
like everything else about her: She is whoever you need her to be.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:35:18 EDT
From:         DustyMiss
Subject:      Re: Amelia's feet

"She is whoever you need her to be"  -That's cool.  And true. Never in
George's wildest dream...

LTKM - Dusty
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:52:38 EDT
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Pacific water collectors

Here's a link with photos to the re-use of aluminum fuel tanks in the
Pacific.  These are post-WW II fuel tanks.  The author mentions the re-use of
World War II aluminum oxygen tanks, which can be sawn in half and used as
large cooking pots.  Nice photos of the tanks in use at the link.     Daniel
Postellon   TIGHAR#2263  LTM (who saved all her aluminum foil in a big ball)

http://life.csu.edu.au/~dspennem/VIRTPAST/Papers_DRS/2ND_USE/Drop_Tanks.html#Water
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Very interesting.  Of course, neither of the two apparent water-collection
units at the Seven Site (the tank and the barrel/drum) bear any resemblance
to an aircraft fuel tank, but we do suspect that each may have contained
rainwater collected by a nearby  "roof" of corrugated metal and fed by means
of a gutter similar to the one pictured feeding the F-86 tank.

Recently we've been trying to figure out what the green copper screening
found scattered around on the ground, usually in strips, may have been used
for.  We've wondered if it was part of a wooden-framed screen that may have
been over the mouth of the barrel to keep crud out of the water - and the
total amount of screen is fairly consistent with that use - but we also found
very rusted metal channel or gutter material and I wonder if the strips of
screen were over the gutters.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Apr 2002 11:58:30 EDT
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Adaptive re-use of B-24 parts

I'll have to remember the phrase "adaptive re-use".  B-24 fans are advised
not to look at this link.  This is not a good way to conserve historic
aircraft!  It does give an insight into what can happen to airplane parts on
a Pacific atoll.   Daniel Postellon  TIGHAR#2263  LTM (Who could use a good
set of cooking pots!)

http://marshall.csu.edu.au/html/B24/B24_reuse.html
****************************************************************************
From Ric

I'll refrain from pointing out that rebuilding and flying aircraft for
airshow exhibition is also adaptive re-use.

On Funafuti we saw large sections of B-24 wing structure used as roofs for
pig pens but there were also some major components (wheels, props)  and
sheets of aluminum skin lying around unused, if you knew where to look.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:01:19 EDT
From:         Carol Dow
Subject:      Re: Amelia's feet

Muriel (Amelia's sister) and I were good friends, and one thing that really
struck me about her was how thin she was. That would have to translate to a
very narrow shoe size (for what it's worth). All the pictures of Amelia show
her as a thin slip of a woman. Muriel was almost skin and bones, really. That
has to be a family trait (metabolism). You know you listen to Joe Klass and
his spy stories and his pictures of Irene Bolam, and I just have to shake my
head. Irene Bolam (the one that is still living) jumped on me for saying what
I did about the size of Irene Bolam (she's huge)
in the Joe Klass book. Ladies are sensitive about things like that...you know. All
the ladies have problems with weight gain in later years....except the
Earharts. Also, the way Earhart was flying around I doubt seriously if she
had much of a chance to feast on her favorite foods. Amelia's shoe size must
have been narrow and probably small. I would almost refuse to believe
anything else....for whatever that's worth which is probably not much because
I usually manage to get everything upside down and backwards.

Carol #2524
***************************************************************************
From Ric

You're in good company.

By the way, Irene Bolam died in 1983.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:03:25 EDT
From:         Ric
Subject:      Tom to talk

Those in the Washington DC area may be interested in the following notice
forwarded by Tim Smith:

Amelia Earhart's Shoes:
Is the Mystery Solved?
A lecture and book signing by
Co-author Thomas F. King, Ph.D.

When:  Tuesday, April 23, 2002

Time:     6:30 p.m.

Where:  American Institute of Architects, Board Room
1735 New York Avenue, NW, Washington, DC
Located behind the Octagon Museum and across from the
Corcoran Museum of Art and the Department of the Interior;
closest Metro stations: Farragut West (Blue/Orange Lines)
and Farragut North (Red Line), exit to 17th Street

Cost:     $10.00 per person (cash or check only) for lecture

Books:  Available for sale before and after the lecture

Reservations Required:
Space is limited!
Call 703.765.0100 to make a reservation

Sponsored by:  National Preservation Institute

The fate of aviation pioneer Amelia Earhart has puzzled the world since she
and her navigator, Fred Noonan, disappeared in early July 1937 over the
Pacific Ocean, ending their effort to be the first to circumnavigate the
globe by air at the equator. The International Group for Historic Aircraft
Recovery (TIGHAR) has been on the track of a solution to the mystery for the
last 15 years, and may be close to success.

Dr. Thomas F. King is TIGHAR's senior archaeologist, and lead author of
Amelia Earhart's Shoes: Is the Mystery Solved?, published in 2001 by Altamira
Press. The book recounts TIGHAR's adventures pursuing "the Nikumaroro
Hypothesis"-the idea that Earhart and Noonan landed and died on Nikumaroro
Island, an uninhabited atoll in the central Pacific. Dr. King, who in "real
life" is an instructor and consultant for the National Preservation
Institute, will discuss the book and TIGHAR's findings to date, and sign
copies of the book, which will be available for sale.

The National Preservation Institute is a nonprofit organization that provides
professional training for the management, development, and preservation of
historic, cultural, and environmental resources. www.npi.org

Submitted by Tim Smith 1142CE
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:39:07 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Also: Aluminum Trade patterns.

A couple of comments on Christian's points....

I've been troubled, too, by the dissimilarity between Dick Evan's description
of his water catcher and the tank at the Seven Site -- particularly since it
now appears that there was a metal-roofed structure associated with the
latter (though maybe not at the time Evans saw whatever he saw).  In 2001 Jim
Morrissey did a fair amount of exploration southeast from the Seven Site
toward the Loran Station to see if there was another tank somewhere, with
negative results, but that doesn't mean it's not there.  I think we can be
pretty comfortable that the Seven Site tank is the Geisinger tank (though we
still await Skeet Gifford's analysis of the bolts), but whether it's the
Evans tank -- I guess I'd say "probably," but wouldn't be entirely surprised
if it turned out not to be.

As for exportation of aluminum to one of the other islands, it seems unlikely
both because of the very limited interisland travel in the early days of the
colony and because there were only ten guys on the island initially; there
was just no basis for setting up some kind of trading relationship.  And if
aluminum WAS exported to Manra or Orona, I have no idea how we'd find it.  We
have enough trouble sorting out the maybe-Electra aluminum from all the other
aluminum on Niku; it'd be a real long, long shot to come up with a piece of
the former among all the stuff from Kanton and the Sydney wreck that must be
on the other islands.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:41:32 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Adaptive re-use of B-24 parts

A hard-core historical architect will tell you that "adaptive re-use" is
redundant, and that "adaptive use" is the appropriate term.  Not that even
historical architects always use it.
**************************************************************************
From Ric

That was a new one to me too.  Sorta like "free gift", "totally destroyed",
"partially damaged", etc.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:12:21 EDT
From:         Skeet Gifford
Subject:      7-Site Tank Repair

During Niku IIII, when we examined the tank located at the 7-site, we
observed machine screws in two sides that were clearly not part of the
tank's original design.  The most likely purpose of the screws was to plug
holes.

With the aid of some borrowed tools from Nai'a, I removed two small
(approximately 6 inch square) sections from the tank which included the
subject screws.  The purpose of this removal was to determine, if possible,
the source of the screws and see if anything could be learned from the hole.

The screw from the west side of the tank had broken off, and the threaded
portion (with hex nut attached) and a washer were located in the debris in
the bottom of the tank.  The screw is a round-head slotted machine screw,
1/2 - 13 (1/2 inch diameter with a pitch of 13 threads per inch).  This
conforms to SAE specifications.  The original length prior to breaking off
is 3 inches.

The hole through which the screw had been mounted was partially deformed,
with the tank material bent slightly inward.  It was not possible for me to
tell whether this deformation was the result of a round striking the tank.

The machine screw from the south side of the tank was bent but intact.  It
is also a round-head, slotted machine screw, 3/8 - 16, the length of which
is 2 inches.  This is also SAE spec.  Since the screw was bent, it would be
necessary to cut the bolt to see the hole.  I didn't do this.

The Whitworth 1/2 inch screw has a thread pitch of 12.  The 3/8 British
Whitworth screw has the same 16 pitch as the American screw, but it is
unlikely that there would be a mix of British and U. S hardware.

As installed on the tank, flat washers were used on both the inside and
outside.

A round slotted head on a machine screw of that size is, in a word,
unusual.  More common for these thread sizes are Hex, Carriage or
Square.  The size of the slot dwarfed my largest screw driver, the one that
earns it keep as a pry bar.

My thanks to Tom King for his gentle reminder.....
**************************************************************************
From Ric

So if I understand you correctly,

- our original hypothesis that the screws were used to repair holes made by
the passage of a bullet is supported, but not proven, by your observations.

- the two screws are different from each other.  One is definitely American
spec and the other might be either American or British.

- both screws are unusually large for slotted machine screws.

Question:  If the hole on the west side of the tank is a bullet hole it's
probaly an entry hole because of the deformation inward.  Is it possible to
make an educated guess about the caliber of the putative bullet?  Geisinger's
recollection is that the hole was made with a .45 but we found no .45 slug or
shell casings at the site.  We did, however, find a .30 cal shell casing in a
location that appers to line up with the two holes.

Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:14:21 EDT
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Re: Amelia's feet

Carol might want to look at some of the pictures on the Purdue Library site,
which show AE's feet.  One, XII.B.1.b, is a picture of AE seated in a little
glider and gives a pretty good look at the bottoms of her shoes, which don't look
particularly narrow.  Also visible in this picture (as well as others) are her
ankles, which are pretty substantial as well... Maybe lots of hours with her feet
on the rudder pedals had an effect on her circulation.

ltm,
jon
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Yes.  The "thick ankle syndrome" is apparent in several photos.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 18 Apr 2002 12:30:48 EDT
From:         Christian D
Subject:      Informal interisland barter

>  From Tom King
>
>  A couple of comments on Christian's points....
>
>  I've been troubled, too, by the dissimilarity between Dick Evan's description
>  of his water catcher and the tank at the Seven Site -- particularly since it
>  now appears that there was a metal-roofed structure associated with the
>  latter (though maybe not at the time Evans saw whatever he saw).  In 2001 Jim
>  Morrissey did a fair amount of exploration southeast from the Seven Site
>  toward the Loran Station to see if there was another tank somewhere, with
>  negative results, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Tom:  even if the Evans tank is not to be found, is not there today, it does
not unvalidate the Evans anecdote: his sighting was very early in the PISS
era, so I would expect what was seen >then<, to likely NOT still be sitting
there waiting for us. Most of what can be found today on the island is
junk/trash/no-value-stuff.  For example: if the Tarawa Police tank was
waiting for Tighar, it is likely that by 1963, it was either  the rusting
bottom was leaking; or its value was nil, because it was too remote, and/or
too heavy, and/or by 1963 the island had more than enough lightweight 55gal
drums, etc.  Another example is the weather-beaten scraps of shoes and the
eyelets...

If only Niku was like Pompei, and had been covered in volcano ashes the day
after the castaways died!   <G>

>  I think we can be
>  pretty comfortable that the Seven Site tank is the Geisinger tank (though we
>  still await Skeet Gifford's analysis of the bolts),

What is the matter with the bolts? Don't remember reading about what the
question is? Dating them?

 >  As for exportation of aluminum to one of the other islands, it seems unlikely
>  both because of the very limited interisland travel in the early days of the
>  colony and because there were only ten guys on the island initially; there
>  was just no basis for setting up some kind of trading relationship.  And if
>  aluminum WAS exported to Manra or Orona, I have no idea how we'd find it.  We
>  have enough trouble sorting out the maybe-Electra aluminum from all the other
>  aluminum on Niku; it'd be a real long, long shot to come up with a piece of
>  the former among all the stuff from Kanton and the Sydney wreck that must be
>  on the other islands.

I had thought I'd be smart and use a roaring expression like: "Aluminum Trade
Patterns", but it looks like I shot myself in the foot!  I should have known
better -I'm NO archeologist!   Of course I am not talking about setting up a
"trading relationship",  with the approval of the PISS bureaucrats.  More
like: when the Govt ship arrived at Niku, one of the island workers who went
out to meet/unload the ship was desperate to >trade< for some extra stick
tobacco and took along some pieces of aluminum, a couple of control cables
and >bartered<  with some of the passengers who were on their way to the
other 2 islands.  The possibilities seem endless to me... I don't see why we
should assume the 3 islands were >sealed<  from each other?  Think inverting
eye piece or the voyages of the  Benedictine bottle.

Of course nothing simple about any of this... But for example: if Tighar/Naia
is too expensive for the gamble, then why not get the people presently on the
other 2 islands (are they still there??) to collect "stuff" in their spare
time, and sell it to Tighar?  If nobody will do it the "proper archeological"
way anyways...  Wouldn't be a big expense.  Or contract some student (US,
European, Fijian, I-Kiribati, whatever!)  to go down there with whatever ship
supplies the contract workers, and spend whatever time there is between ship
voyages to Orona/Manra, looking around in a somewhat more organized way.
After all Tighar has set up a "reward for bones" in Fiji; these
"non-major-expedition" avenues might be cost-effective in certain areas?
Remember: a few of the most interesting artifacts found on Niku so far, were
stumbled on without digging!

LTM (who likes to snoop around in out of the way places...)

Christian D.
***************************************************************************
From Ric

The sort of informal Amelia-hunting is already going on.  In January 2000 a
Kiribati government expedition to Manra (Sydney) found and recovered a
propeller blade that they thought might be from the Electra.  I was sent a
photo of the artifact and had to tell them that it looked like a C-47 prop
from the known crash that happened there in 1943.  Van Hunn and I eventually
saw the prop blade in person when we visited Tarawa last year and were able to
confirm the identification.  The point is, our work has gotten lots of press
in the region.  I'm hesitant to put a bounty on aluminum junk from islands
where we have no real reason to think there is Earhart-related wreckage.

We've also resisted the idea of informal, one-person shoe-string expeditions.
That said, if a trained TIGHAR member had the will, the time, and the
wherewithall - and could get permission - to accompany a Kiribati re-supply
voyage to the contract copra cutting operation on Orona (Hull), I wouldn't
fight the idea.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:17:07 EDT
From:         Skeet Gifford
Subject:      Re: 7-Site Tank Repair

Ric asked-

>Question:  If the hole on the west side of the tank is a bullet hole it's
>probably an entry hole because of the deformation inward.  Is it possible to
>make an educated guess about the caliber of the putative bullet?  Geisinger's
>recollection is that the hole was made with a .45 but we found no .45 slug or
>shell casings at the site.  We did, however, find a .30 cal shell casing in a
>location that appers to line up with the two holes.

The tank as it rests at the 7-site is oriented approximately 20 degrees off
magnetic North.  Just in case someone is taking notes.

Assuming that a single projectile produced both holes, the bullet struck
the west side of the tank at an angle of 32 degrees off perpendicular.  The
declination was 10 degrees.  Not only does the deformation suggest the
direction of fire, but as we demonstrated on site, the shooter would be
standing to hit the west side of the tank, but awkwardly prone to shoot
from the other direction.

Perhaps belaboring the obvious, a .45 caliber bullet is 45/100 inch in
diameter. The .30 M-1 Carbine round is 30/100.  Military small arms
ammunition is fully jacketed, so is less prone to expansion than a lead
bullet.

Using an actual .45 ACP round, the bullet will fit through the 1/2 inch
diameter hole ONLY WHEN PERPENDICULAR TO THE PLATE.  When the bullet
addresses the plate at a 32 degree angle, it does not go through.  On the
other hand, the .30 M-1 Carbine round transits the hole easily.  In fact,
the hole was probably rounded and enlarged to accept the 1/2 inch
bolt.  With apologies to Johnny Cochran, "If the bullet doesn't fit, you
must acquit!"
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:28:17 EDT
From:         Christian D
Subject:      Re: 7-Site Tank Repair

Interesting analysis.  
So can we guess that a trigger-happy Coastie shot up the tank, and a higher-up
later decided (complaint from the colonists?)  it should get patched-up?

Were any means of sealing the hole found, Skeet? White lead, or leather, or
a piece of inner tube, fiber of some kind (asbestos)?  With just a plain steel
washer, I would expect a bullet hole to keep leaking.  So: just a "token" repair?

>  The Whitworth 1/2 inch screw has a thread pitch of 12.  The 3/8 British
>  Whitworth screw has the same 16 pitch as the American screw, but it is
>  unlikely that there would be a mix of British and U. S hardware.

Whitworth fasteners are near-impossible to find in North America (nowadays
anyways...)  there is quasi zero chance that there were any at the CG base.
If the 3/8 was Brit, the repair would have to be a joint colonist/CG effort.

Skeet: the shape of the SAE and WW threads are very slightly different, but
I suppose the artifacts are too rusted away for that to be determined?

By the way: if bullets holes, does it look like the round was fired toward
the trail leading to Ameriki (from West to South)?  Interesting!

Regards.
Christian D
****************************************************************************
From Ric

Former Coast Guardsman Glen Geisinger described the shooting and repair to us
before we left for Niku IIII.  We had noticed the bolts in the tank when we
first found it in 1996 but vaguely assumed they had something to do with its
function.  According to Geisinger, "One time of our boys put a .45 slug through
one side of it and had to go back and fix it.  I guess they patched it somehow."
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:30:45 EDT
From:         Carol Dow
Subject:      Re Amelia's feet

Jon, I just happened to think of something. Anyone who has a lot of sitting
time (computers or airplanes, either one) tends to cut off the circulation
across the back of their legs and that would cause just about anyone's feet
to swell. If I had to guess Muriel's shoe size, I would have to say (woman to
woman) about a seven or eight very narrow. But that probably wouldn't apply
to Amelia.

So, to answer your question, if Amelia had a larger shoe size than Muriel it
wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Carol #2524
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:31:56 EDT
From:         Suzanne Astorino
Subject:      Re: Amelia's feet

Here's another "feet photo" from the Kansas City Library:

http://www.kclibrary.org/sc/photos/zeldin/10014076.jpg

If you lighten the photo and adjust the contrast, you can see they are
"dressy" high-heeled oxfords with a removable "fringe" flap on top of the
laces.

Here is the Purdue University URL to search for photos recently mentioned
by Jon Watson:

http://gemini.lib.purdue.edu/Earhart/EarhartDisplay/default.cfm

They have more information online, but you need a University ID card to
search the following:

"The Amelia Earhart Collection in Purdue Library Special Collection is the
largest single repository of materials in the world relating to the life,
career, and mysterious disappearance of famed aviator Amelia Earhart."

http://www.lib.purdue.edu/spcol/earhart.html  Earhart Collection

http://www.lib.purdue.edu/aearhart  Earhart Web Site

Thanks, Suzanne
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:08:33 EDT
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Off Topic- More irreverence

Amelia Earhart has poor eyesight but has managed to pass her periodic vision
exams by memorizing the eye charts beforehand. One year, though, her doctor
uses a new chart that she had never seen before. Amelia proceeds to recite
the old chart and the doctor realizes that she'd been hoodwinked.

Well, Amelia proves to be nearly blind as a bat. But the doctor cannot
contain her curiosity. "How is it that someone with your eyesight can manage
to pilot a plane at all? I mean, how for example do you taxi the plane out
to the runway?"

"Well," says Amelia, "it ain't really too hard. All you have to do is follow
the instructions of the ground controller over the radio. And besides, the
landmarks have all become quite familiar to me over the years."

"I can understand that," replies the doctor. "But what about the take-off?"

"Again, a simple procedure. I just aim the plane down the runway, go to full
throttle, pull back on the stick, and off we go!"

"But once you're aloft?"

"Oh, I have the Sperry giropilot these days. All I have to do is hit the
autopilot and the plane pretty much flies itself."

"But I still don't see how you land!"

"Oh, that's the easiest part of all. All I do is wait for Fred to tell me to
descend. Then I just throttle down and wait for him to yell,
'AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!' pull the nose up, and the plane lands just fine!"

Angus.
**************************************************************************
From Ric

Two conspiracy theorists are on Saipan investigating stories about a white
lady flier who was beheaded by the Japanese.  An elderly Chamoro woman leads
them to a remote spot in back of Garapan Prison where, sure enough, they find
a skull on the ground.

One of the investigators reverently picks up the skull and holds it out at
arms length.
"My God!  This could be Amelia Earhart!"
His partner stares in awe, but then shakes his head.
"Naw.  She was taller than that."
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:14:19 EDT
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Re: 100 octane at Howland?

Some further research on fuel drums has unearthed some interesting
information. There is a photograph of Amelia in South America standing by a
refuelling drum. It is marked "Stanavo",  the aviation arm of Standard Oil
who provided the fuel at Howland. The fuel is described as Ethyl  Avia and
is followed by 88 ( probably 88 Octane). The gross and Tare weights are also
listed which show a net weight ( by subtraction) of 318. If we assume this
is pounds and use a fuel density for gasoline of 6lb/gal this gives a net
content of 53gal. The drum is in fact marked 53 gallons so this is obviously
the net contents of their "55 gallon" drum.

It would appear, therefore, that there was in fact consiserably more than
the 1,050 gal of 87 octane calculated by Bob, in fact 1325 gal plus another
212 gal of 100 octane. It would obviously make sense to have more than enough
fuel to fill the electra's tanks available.

Regards Angus.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:35:57 EDT
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Purdue photos

For Suzanne, and the rest of the Tighars who aren't Purdue students...

> "The Amelia Earhart Collection in Purdue Library Special Collection is the
> largest single repository of materials in the world relating to the life,
> career, and mysterious disappearance of famed aviator Amelia Earhart."
>
> http://www.lib.purdue.edu/spcol/earhart.html  Earhart Collection
>
> http://www.lib.purdue.edu/aearhart  Earhart Web Site

If you enter this in your browser as http://www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart (leave
out the "A"), it will take you right to the ftp site, and you can then select
the appropriate subdirectory and see a list of all the photos.  Hint - don't
try to view those 40 MB TIFF files - you'll take all night to download one
photo.  Scan the "thumbnail" pictures first (even some of those are pretty
large).

Suzanne's reference to
http://gemini.lib.purdue.edu/Earhart/EarhartDisplay/default.cfm is
interesting, because it segregates the pictures by city location.  I hadn't
seen that page before. (Thanks, Suzanne!).

Speaking of pictures, there is one which shows up with regularity on Ebay,
which purports to be a picture of AE in Japan.  It shows her standing by what
appears to be a huge bell of oriental origin.  I haven't seen that one on the
Purdue site, and I think I've been through most of those photos.  Any idea
where it was really taken?  My guess is Hawaii, but I don't have anything to
support that.  Ric, I snagged a copy of it, and will email it to you if you
like.

ltm,
jon
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Thanks Jon.  I'd like to see it.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:35:07 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      "55 gal Drum Capacity"

> From Angus Murray [with comment from RC]
> [Of a '55 gal. drum from Stavano] ] The gross and Tare weights are also
> listed which show a net weight ( by subtraction) of 318. If we assume
>this is pounds and use a fuel density for gasoline of 6lb/gal this gives a
>net content of 53gal. The drum is in fact marked 53 gallons so this is
>obviously the net contents of their "55 gallon" drum.

I don't doubt a word of it.  If 53 gals weighed 318 lbs., the following
is also true.  The temp was 28 deg. F.   If the temp was raised to 82 d.F.
there would be no ulage left [empty space within the drum].

Without knowing a darn thing about drum storage of gasoline, I would
think that drums of fuel that could end up in the tropics would be filled
with the thought of 120 deg. temps. in the sun; e.g. no more than the
equivalent of  52.5 gals at the std.density of 5.87 lbs/gal..  Unless the
increased pressure of expansion in a full drum was not a problem. RC
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:36:34 EDT
From:         Herman De Wulf
Subject:      Re: Amelia's feet

If you really want to see what Amelia's feet/shoes were like go to
www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/XII.B.2.k.jpg. You'll be surprised.

LTM (who hates narrow shoes)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:45:19 EDT
From:         Christian D
Subject:      Re: 7-Site Tank Repair

>  Using an actual .45 ACP round, the bullet will fit through the 1/2 inch
>  diameter hole ONLY WHEN PERPENDICULAR TO THE PLATE.  When the bullet
>  addresses the plate at a 32 degree angle, it does not go through.  On the
>  other hand, the .30 M-1 Carbine round transits the hole easily.  In fact,
>  the hole was probably rounded and enlarged to accept the 1/2 inch
>  bolt.  With apologies to Johnny Cochran, "If the bullet doesn't fit, you
>  must acquit!"

Any indication that the hole was in fact BIGGER, but was flattened a bit with
a hammer (thus reducing the opening) in order to make a more even seat for
the washers?

By the way: is it likely a single bullet would go through the TWO sides, at
a 32deg angle for the first one, and then still go through the second, adjacent
side at a 58deg angle?  Seems a rather steep angle?!?  How about going through
water as well?

Christian D
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Something has been bothering me about Geisinger's story.  He told me that "One
time of our boys put a .45 slug through one side of it and had to go back and
fix it.  I guess they patched it somehow."  If it's the same tank and the same
hole(s) we found at the Seven Site (and think it is), the holes are very close
to the top and would not significantly reduce the tanks utility as a water
collector.  My suspicion is that the repair was ordered not because a villager
complained but because the CO was pissed when he heard about the incident.
It matters only because we're trying to get a handle on whether the Seven
Site was used by the colonists at all after Gallagher died.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:49:39 EDT
From:         Herman De Wulf
Subject:      Amelia's shoes

I think the most reliable information we'll ever get on the shoes Amelia
Earhart's was wearing onn 2 July 1937 comes from the last picture taken of
her at Lae. When she climbed out of the aircraft at Lae she was apparently
wearing the Oxford Blucher shoes this forum has been talking a lot about
some time ago. It is my bet that she wore these shoes throughout the flight
(as most people would do) probably because she felt comfortable in them. If
you want to see them you'll find them in the Purdue University photo
library. Go to:

http://gemini.lib.purdue.edu/Earhart/EarhartDisplay/default.cfm
Fill out LAE in the box CITY and see what happens. You can blow up the
picture concentrating on her shoes and Bob's your uncle.

I  guess the shoe remains you found at Niku and the description you
provided match exactly the shoes she was wearing in that last picture taken
of AE. Unless one believes she was flying barefoot (?) I think this picture
solves the problem.

LTM (who says the internet is the greatest invention ever since the
airplane)
Herman
***************************************************************************
From Ric

I'm afraid not Herman.  That is neither tha last picture taken of AE (it was
taken upon her arrival at Lae) nor are the shoes like the one whose remnants
we found on Niku in 1991.  For a while it looked like they were but it's now
apparent that they're not.  I know we've talked about this at length on the
forum.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:51:23 EDT
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: 100 octane at Howland?

> From Angus Murray
> It would obviously make sense
> to have more than enough fuel to fill the electra's tanks available.

A couple of years back I got a series of photographs and documents off
the Purdue web site (the site and back door to which has been
rediscovered lately).

One set of documents had a list of places where oil and fuel was to be
made available for Earhart and the actual quantities at each site.

I suspect Ric has copies of the same docs.

Th' WOMBAT.
****************************************************************************
From Ric

I don't think we have that.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:54:43 EDT
From:         Tom Strang
Subject:      100 Octane Fuel Source?

     When and where did AE/FN pick up the 40+ gallons of 100 octane fuel they
departed Lae with?

Respectfully:
Tom Strang
****************************************************************************
From Ric

I've never seen it documented but my suspicion is that they topped off the
tank with 100 in Bandoeng, Java - the last major airport they visited before
Lae - and had used about half the tank for takeoffs by the time they got to
Lae.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:02:05 EDT
From:         Sharon
Subject:      Re: Amela's feet

To: Suzanne Astorino in Stockton, CA

Thanks for those sites, and especially that first pix.  I have never seen
that one (with her curled up in a chair) and it's so sweet.  Hard to tell in
a way, but even from this picture, her feet don't look big at all.  Infact,
they look smaller than her hand, but that's probably from the angle of the
photo.

I didn't tell you in my last posting, but for the last 6 years I have worked
in the transportation sector of Lockheed Martin.  Met lots of intereting
people, some involved and knew others in Skunkworks, etc.  But we had photos
all around of the old and new aircraft built by Lockheed.  Unfortunately,
last fall this division was bought out by ACS (Affiliated Computer Systems).
Everyone scrambled to get the old pictures.  (Unfortunately, I didn't win
the lotteries).  But, on my own, I have had a picture of Amelia above my
desk for the past 10 years......way before I started my job at Lockheed.  On
days when things may "get me down", I can glance at her and get inspiration
to carry on.  What a legacy she left! Because of reasons such as that,
people want to find out what did happen to her.  I think it's the greatest
of all compliments to the woman.

Thank you Tighars!!!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:45:07 EDT
From:         Christopher Ferro
Subject:      Re: Amelia's feet

> Herman De Wulf (#2406) in Brussels / Belgium sent us:
> If you really want to see what Amelia's feet/shoes were like go to
> www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/XII.B.2.k.jpg. You'll be surprised.

I'd say either her feet are swollen and/or her shoes are too small. You can
see them puffed out of the opening above her toes. My wife's feet look like
that when she tries to wear her older shoes that are now too narrow (oddly
enough, the length is correct).

Christopher in Wheeling, the Fiendly City (er... fRiendly... friendly.. got
to remember that 'r'.........)
**************************************************************************
From Christina

Ouch! Her toes look flattened, the top of her feet swollen and compressed
into the shoe, right foot bigger than left (assuming shoes are the same size
and no temporal foot injury).  Where are her ankles?  I picture her as long
and graceful...AND then I see these feet?
***********************************************************************
From Ric

This is what they mean when they say that all heros have feet of clay.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:05:27 EDT
From:         Mike Muenich
Subject:      -7-SITE TANK REPAIR

"One time of our boys put a .45 slug through one side of it and had to go back
and fix it.  I guess they patched it somehow."

The language seems to imply that they were ordered to repair.  Somehow I
have problems with the mental image of enlisted men voluntarily "confessing"
to the CO that they had shot up the tank over evening cocktails.  Unless
they were called on the carpet, EM's don't usually converse with the CO
unless he addresses them first--something about what the boss doesn't know
isn't going to hurt him; or the EM's either.  Somebody complained to the CO,
the CO held an inquisition, and an order to repair ensued.   That begs the
question--who complained and why?  The only reason to complain is somebody
was going to the site and using the tank.  If it was discontinued, rusting,
abandoned, etc, the somebody wouldn't know or wouldn't complain; why would
they care.

***************************************************************************
From Ric

There are lots of possibilities.  The CO could have been there.  The shooter
may have thought it didn't matter but the CO didn't agree.   Or, somebody could
have blabbed to the CO.  Or, there could have been a complaint from the colonists.
I'll try to get back in touch with Geisinger and see if he remembers.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:06:55 EDT
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Re: "55 gal Drum Capacity"

> I don't doubt a word of it.  If 53 gals weighed 318 lbs., the following
> is also true.  The temp was 28 deg. F.   If the temp was raised to 82 d.F.
> there would be no ulage left [empty space within the drum].

Not necessarily -See below

>  Without knowing a darn thing about drum storage of gasoline, I would
> think that drums of fuel that could end up in the tropics would be filled
> with the thought of 120 deg. temps. in the sun; e.g. no more than the
> equivalent of  52.5 gals at the std.density of 5.87 lbs/gal..  Unless the
> increased pressure of expansion in a full drum was not a problem. RC

The NOMINAL capacity was 55 gallons
the actual capacity was greater as described in my earlier post. Using the smallest
internal dimensions bandied about of 22.5 x 34.25 inches gives 57.23 gallons.

This would give a four gallon ullage space with 53 gallons @ 28 deg C.  Coefficient of expansion
for gas is 9.5 x 10 exp -4/deg C. Temp diff = 54 deg. Hence  increase in volume 2.72
gallons ( close to your 2.5 allowance). Subtracting  55.72 gallons from 57.23 leaves
1.51 gallons space free.

Regards Angus
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:09:42 EDT
From:         Suzanne Astorino
Subject:      Re: Photo of AE in Japan

Jon Watson said:

>Speaking of pictures, there is one which shows up with regularity on Ebay,
>which purports to be a picture of AE in Japan.  It shows her standing by what
>appears to be a huge bell of oriental origin.

A search of "completed items" at ebay brings up that photo here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1529352153
it's toward the bottom of the page.

Suzanne
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:10:30 EDT
From:         Suzanne Astorino
Subject:      Re: Purdue photos (AE's Family Home Photo)

A few weeks ago someone had inquired about obtaining the address of AE's
family home.  A picture on the Purdue site lists the address on the
reverse.  The full 4 meg picture is here:
http://www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/XIII.A.2.jpg

On the reverse, it states the home's address of 223 N. Terrace, Atchison,
Kansas

For those without broadband, you can see the 195kb thumbnail here:
http://www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/XIII.A.2.aTHUM.jpg

or a 1.3 meg picture is here:
http://www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/XIII.A.2.a.jpg

Suzanne
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:15:48 EDT
From:         Suzanne Astorino
Subject:      Re: 100 octane at Howland?

Ross Devitt said:

>One set of documents had a list of places where oil and fuel was to be
>made available for Earhart and the actual quantities at each site.

I noticed that picture, it's here:
Title: Diagram of gasoline and oil changes
http://www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/IX.C.9.jpg
the file size is 955kb

An easy way to see most of the photos is to go to the "main" search page
http://gemini.lib.purdue.edu/Earhart/EarhartDisplay/
and scroll to the bottom, and systematically view A to Z.

Thanks Jon Watson, I had already discovered the FTP site.  Most of the
photos are in this directory:  http://www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/
and can be directly accessed by placing the identifier number plus the .jpg
extension at the end of that URL.  To keep us all "legal" and to protect
TIGHAR, I'll add that we have no right to "keep" these photos, just to
"view" them.

There are also a lot of interesting telegrams to and from AE.

And don't miss the one taken circa 1904 of AE and her sister Muriel!!  To
see that one, go to the main search page listed above, and bring up all the
"N" listings.  (Lots of them are filed under "Title: None".)  Here, you'll
see the adorable picture I mentioned, of the two young girls sitting on the
steps.

Happy Viewing, Suzanne
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:18:53 EDT
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: "55 gal Drum Capacity"

> I don't doubt a word of it.  If 53 gals weighed 318 lbs., the following
> is also true.  The temp was 28 deg. F.   If the temp was raised to 82 d.F.
> there would be no ulage left [empty space within the drum].
>
> Without knowing a darn thing about drum storage of gasoline, I would
> think that drums of fuel that could end up in the tropics would be filled
> with the thought of 120 deg. temps. in the sun; e.g. no more than the
> equivalent of  52.5 gals at the std.density of 5.87 lbs/gal..  Unless the
> increased pressure of expansion in a full drum was not a problem. RC

In relation to the last comment, here's another of those "been there -
done that" comments.

In the tropics it is not uncommon to find those same drums ballooned.
That is to say, the ends bowed out up to 2" convex both ends.  I just
went and looked at the 44 (55US) gallon drums outside and they are all
like that from the heat.  The ends of the drums are actually designed so
that can happen without bursting them!

Often at night as the temperature drops to around 70 degrees or so you
can hear the loud bang as the drums change back again.  They never
completely recover though.

As far as temperatures go, the drums get hotter than you'd think.  It is
Fall here and  82deg inside my office with the windows and doors open
and a "cool breeze" blowing.  Outside where the drums are a thermometer
is hanging in a tree.  It has a scale to 60deg Celsius (about 172deg
F).  At the moment it is showing well over at a point where the needle
would show 64deg C if the scale went that far.  Around noon it is much
hotter.  (In mid winter here it sometimes gets down as low as 75
degrees).

That means our fuel drums are subjected to 176deg Fahrenheit at 3pm (the
cooler part of an average autumn (fall) day.  I have never bothered to
look at the "in the sun" temp during summer, but it get a lot hotter
that that.

Considering that Earhart's fuel was stored in much hotter temperatures
than we ever get it makes all the questions about expansion in the
Electra's tanks an interesting point.  (Lae daytime temperatures in July
are about 3-4 degrees Celsius hotter than ours).

Obviously, the trick is to open some of the drums a little or store them
out of the sun.  You don't do the first because of contamination
problems and the second is not always possible.  That appears to be why
the ends of the drums have a fold that allows a large movement (about
100+ cubic inches) in extreme cases.

Th' WOMBAT
************************************************************************
From Ric

Better check your Celsius/Farenheit conversions.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:19:39 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Upcoming talks and booksignings

I've been remiss in keeping the Forum up to date on schedules for my talks
and booksignings of "Amelia Earhart's Shoes."  Here's the current schedule:

Tonight, April 23, 6:30 pm, American Institute of Architects, Washington DC
April 30, afternoon (don't know exact time), Cabrillo College, Aptos, CA
May 4, evening, Sonoma County Library, Petaluma, CA
November 17, afternoon, College Park Aviation Museum, College Park, MD
December 1, evening, Wright Day Dinner, Kansas City 99s, KC, MO.

LTM
Tom King
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:38:56 EDT
From:         R.L."Doc" Holloway
Subject:      Re: Amelia's feet

Guess I might as well toss in my bit of trivia on the "swollen feet" bit.
When you sit in an airplane for long periods of time your feet swell.  I
have seen many folks deplane while carrying their shoes.  In the small
courtesy bag of goodies that TWA gave to their 1st Class passengers on
international flights was a shoe horn.  Even with a shoe horn, I have had a
rough time getting my shoes back on.  I didn't dare take them off in the
cockpit!

LTM (Who never removed her shoes in flight.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:46:37 EDT
From:         Herman De Wulf
Subject:      Re: Amelia's feet

I don't know whether the picture showing Amelia Earhart climbing out of the
Electra after landing at Lae was the last one taken of her. It is the last
one in the picture library of the collection at Purdue University. I have
been looking at all the pictures (it took me a few hours !)and what I saw
confirms my belief that she was wearing the same shoes throughout the flight
(when flying, not when dining out or walking). She clearly felt comfortable
in these shoes when flying and that was without any doubt the reason why she
is always seen wearing the  same pair. If you care to look at the pictures
again you'll see she is wearing those same shoes in all pictures taken of
her when she is climbing in or out of the Electra or standing near it or
before or after a flight. I suggest you go back to
www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/ and look carefully at pictures XI.B.22.b
(Singapore), XI.B.1.h (Eritrea) or XI.B.5.b (Caripito, Venezuela).
If you think those are not the shoes whose remnants you found on Niku in
1991 then I'm afraid you found someone else's shoes.

LTM (who is becoming familiar with AE's shoes...)
****************************************************************************
From Ric

You'll be even more familiar if you read a very detailed discussion of the
shoes on the TIGHAR website that has been there at
http://www.tighar.org/Projects/Earhart/Research/Bulletins/31_ShoeFetish2/31_ShoeFetish2.html
since April 6, 2001.  It's now out of date in that we have since come to the
conclusion that the photos show a "two-tone" heel on Earhart's blucher
oxfords.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:48:36 EDT
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Re: Centigrade & Fahrenheight

A couple of errors. I should have said 53gal @ 28F (NOT 28C) and the temperature
difference from 28F to 120F is 51C not 54C.  So in fact there was slightly more
ullage space than I had estimated!

Regards Angus
**************************************************************************
From Ric

28F?  That's some cold gas.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:51:41 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Fuel -- long winded

The Wombat said:  "Considering that Earhart's fuel was stored in
much hotter temperatures than we ever get it makes all the questions about
expansion in the Electra's tanks an interesting point."

    I was wondering when that issue would be raised  . . . again.

    About a year ago Bob Sherman reported, "The specific weight of
avgas* in lbs. per gal is 5.87 @ 60d/F.; 6.25 @ -32d/F.; and  5.54  @ 140d/F
if you want to make a graph."

    A week later, I burned up a perfectly good Casio calculator
crunching the following numbers and Oscar Boswell pointed out an error,
which I've corrected.

    OK, using Bob's numbers AE would have had had 18.991717 FEWER
gallons of fuel at 85 degrees (F) than she had at 60 degrees (F).
    Here's my math.

    Assuming a straight line computation between the difference in
weight per gallon between 60 d/F (5.87 lbs./gal.) and 140 d/f (5.54
lbs./gal) yields a difference of .33 lbs./gal.  Divide that by the total
temp difference between 60 and 140 yields 80.  Divide that into the .33
lbs./gal. and you arrive at a weight difference of .004125 lbs./gal. for
each one degree of temp increase.

    Multiply the increased weight per gallon by 25, the difference
between the baseline 60 d/F (5.87 lbs./gal) and the take off temp of 85 d/F,
this gives you a weight decrease at 85 d/F of .103125 lbs./gal.  Ergo, at
85d/F each gallon of fuel weighed  0.103125 lbs. LESS than it did at 60 d/F.

    Now, multiply the weight loss per gallon by the number of gallons
known (1,100) to be on AE's plane (.103125 X 1100) and you get a total
weight of 113.4375 pounds.  But how many gallons is that?

    OK, take the baseline 60 d/F (5.87 lbs./gal) and add to that the new
weight per gallon as adjusted (.103 lbs./gal) and it yields a weight of
5.973 lbs./gal at 85 degrees (F).  Divide the total weight gain (113.4375
pounds) by the new adjusted weight per gallon (5.973) and you arrive at
18.991717 gallons.

    And flying at 38 gal/hr that gives her 30 minutes FEWER to be
airborne.

    But the real problem with this issue is that we should be thinking
of volume, not necessarily weight.

    The fact is that a gallon avgas at 60 d/F weighs more than a gallon
at 85 d/F  This is because at cooler temps more molecules of avgas can fit
into a given volume.  Cold stuff shrinks, hot stuff expands.

    What my calculations tried to prove was that if AE had used an
absolute maximum capacity of 1,100 gallons she would have had fewer avgas
molecules at 85 d/F than at 60 d/F -- 18.91717 FEWER gallons worth of
molecules to be specific.

    HOWEVER, this 19 gallon differential applies only if the aircraft
was refueled at 60 d/F and took off after the fuel had warmed to 85 d/F.  If
the aircraft was refueled at a higher temperature ( say, 75 d/F, which is
more likely in July in New Guinea) than the "loss" of avgas molecules (i.e.
gallons of fuel) would have been a lot less.

    The smaller the differential between refueling and takeoff
temperatures, the fewer gallons of fuel are "lost."  My suspicions are that
AE's 10E may not have been filled to the absolute top (There is ALWAYS room
-- volume -- for a extra couple of gallons, especially in a tail dragger,
even if you can't get it in) and any expansion that occurred was minimal and
occupied whatever volume remained.

    No one witnessing the take-off mentioned the 10E venting fuel, the
smell of fuel, puddles of fuel etc., which leads me to believe there was
little or no venting of fuel as the temp increased.  If any venting had
occurred, I suspect it was inconsequential in relation to the fuel on board
and did not contribute significantly to the planned safe termination of the
flight.

LTM, who also enjoys Double-A fuelers!
Dennis O. McGee #0149EC
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:53:02 EDT
From:         Herman De Wulf
Subject:      Re: Photo of AE in Japan

Who says the picture was taken in Japan ? Has Amelia Earhart ever been there?
When looking at the bell it reminds me of the same bell standing in a park
in Ghent, Belgium. I'm pretty sure AE has never been to Ghent. Or has she ?
Does this picture prove she ever was in Ghent ?

Herman
**************************************************************************
From Ric

Do we really need to talk about this?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:53:57 EDT
From:         Herman De Wulf
Subject:      Re: Photo of AE in Japan

Having had a close look at the bell I don't think the inscriptions are
Japanese at all. They look rather Hindu to me. The picture is definitely
taken somewhere in Asia, probably during the stop over in Calcutta or
Rangoon. Any authorities on Asian languages on the forum ? Can't we make
sure, print out the picture and ask the Indian embassy ?

LTM (who loves bells)
***************************************************************************
From Ric

(sigh)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:59:49 EDT
From:         Christopher Ferro
Subject:      "Patent" knob

I was re-re-reviewing the artifact analysis on our (as in TIGHAR's) web
site, and was wondering:

It says that what has been "readable" so far is PATENT-N(?)-OL or UL. Are
the "-" marks there or is that how Pat rendered the spaces between
words/letters?

So is it "PATENT N? ?L" or "PATENT-N?-?L" ?

LTM, who had the sense to move to FL when she could
Christopher (Under the weather in Wheeling)
***************************************************************************
From Ric

There are no "-" features as far as I know.  The opinion of what is readable
so far was made by the Naval Academy lab.  I'm not ready to say that it's
correct until I've seen it myself.

One thing that does seem to be quite sure, based upon more Scanning Elctron
Microscope work, is that the knob itself is lead.  The earlier indication
that there might be some aluminum on the bottom edge was apparently an error.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:05:52 EDT
From:         Herman De Wulf
Subject:      Re: Photo of AE in Japan

OK guys. If you want to know where the bell stands, go to
http://gemini.lib.purdue.edu/Earhart/EarhartDisplay/default.cfm
Fill out Rangoon in the case CITY, then scroll all the way down to the last
picture. That gives you some idea of where the picture was taken.

There's an Indian restaurant nearby. I'll go there one of these days with a
print out of the picture. These guys must be able to tell what the
inscription reads.

LTM (who loves Indian food)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:06:36 EDT
From:         Mike
Subject:      Re: Upcoming talks and booksignings

Is there any planned dates for Southern California?

Mike from So Cal
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:07:31 EDT
From:         Suzanne Astorino
Subject:      Hair-Raising

Here it is.  Proof at last that even Amelia had "bad hair days"

http://www.americaslibrary.gov/pages/aa_earhart_last_1_e.html

It's a kid's web site hosted by the Library of Congress, but there are some
interesting photos there, including Amelia's hand print!

http://www.americaslibrary.gov/pages/aa_earhart_last_2_e.html

The 4 short AE stories begin here:

http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-bin/page.cgi/aa/earhart

LTM, Suzanne
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:09:56 EDT
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: "55 gal Drum Capacity"

> From Ric
>
> Better check your Celsius/Farenheit conversions.

Yup, The scales on my thermometers only go to 60C so I forgot and
doubled the Fahrehheit reading opposite the 32/33 C to get 64/66C -
176deg F.  Silly me - forgot my physics.

176deg F should read about 150 deg F.  Still pretty warm for a pleasant
autumn day and still plays hell with the fuel drums.

It's 11.30am and the temp in the office is a cool 26C - 79F inside.  In
the banana tree outside with a cool breeze blowing across it, the
thermometer is showing 62deg C - 144F and rising.

As we're in the "cool" tropics this is just to point out that RC's 120F
in the sun may be a tad conservative.

Having said that, I think I might move to a cooler climate!

Th' WOMBAT
****************************************************************************
From Ric

I find it hard to believe that anyplace outside the cone of a volcano gets to
150 F.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:13:40 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Amelia's bell

Herman De Wulf said"  The picture is definitely taken somewhere in
Asia . . ."

Or it could've been taken at some 1930-ish theme park in or around
LA.  Or St. Louis. Missouri.  Or Cresco, Iowa.  And so forth . . .

I suspect this thread is now officially D-E-A-D.  Right, Ric?

LTM, a Cresco native
Dennis O. McGee #0149EC
****************************************************************************
From Ric

Whatever.   Based upon the way she's dressed, my guess is that it was taken
sometime around 1935.  Could be Hawaii or Mexico.  There were no theme parks
in the 1930s and I can't imagine why she'd have a touristy photo like this
taken close to home.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:08:48 EDT
From:         Jon Watson
Subject:      Re: Fuel -- long winded

Regarding Dennis' post (and the other recent posts)
about fuel expansion, it occurs to me that if the gas
was hot in the drums, and it was put into the tanks in
the electra, and it was still hot, it would probably not
expand any more in the tanks on the plane than it
already had, hence no more expansion, and no puddles.

This, of course, has no bearing on loss of fuel "weight"
and the related loss of range.

ltm
jon
**********************************************************************
From Ric

That's right, and because everything we've learned recently about the
airplane's range capabilities makes it apparent that our initial estimates
were very conservative, I see no reason why speculation about minor
reductions in fuel due it temperature have any bearing on hypothesis.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:14:44 EDT
From:         Tom Strang
Subject:      Howland Area Radio logs?

Between WPG 321 ( Itasca ) and the folks on Howland Island, how many
individual radio logs were being recorded on the morning of AE/FN's expected
arrival?

Respectfully:
Tom Strang
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Three:

- a log kept aboard Itasca by Chief Radioman Leo Bellarts and Radioman Bill
Galten specifically dedicated to traffic between the ship and the airplane.
- a log kept by Radioman Tommy O'Hare supposedly dedicated solely to traffic
between the ship and stations other than the airplane (except O'Hare couldn't
stand it and included some Earhart traffic in his log).
- a log kept on Howland island by Radioman Frank Ciprianni who was manning
the experimental High Frequency Direction Finder.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:16:08 EDT
From:         Kenton Spading
Subject:      More talks and book signings

Like Tom K. I also have been remiss in notifying the Forum of my activities
related to the Earhart Shoes book.

Monday May 6, 2002, 7 PM:  I will be giving a short presentation on the book
followed by a book signing at Borders Books (612-869-6245) in Richfield, MN
(a suburb of Minneapolis).

Saturday June 15, 2002, 7 PM: I will the the featured speaked at the annual
banquet of the St. Paul Radio Club.  This event requires a reservation.  Send
me an email if you are interested in this.

I was interviewed today by Rick Delvecchio of the San Francisco Chronicle who
is preparing a story on Earhart which discusses the upcoming Earhart symposium
in Oakland, CA, the various Earhart theories etc.. (he said he also spoke to Ric).
The newspaper article will appear in 2 or 3 weeks.

LTM
Kenton Spading, St. Paul, MN
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:17:26 EDT
From:         Suzanne
Subject:      Re: Temperature Conversion

Ric said:

>I find it hard to believe that anyplace outside the cone
>of a volcano gets to 150 F.

Ric's right.  From the web:

With a recorded temperature of 134 degrees, California's Death Valley, part
of the Mojave Desert, is officially considered the hottest place on earth.
It is not uncommon for summer temperatures there to reach 120 degrees.

On July 13, 1922, the National Geographic Society recorded an even higher
temperature of 136 degrees in Al' Aziziyah, Libya but the reading has not
been officially recognized.

For F to C conversion, use this easy site:
http://www.iol.ie/~derfitz/dfd/convert.htm

Suzanne
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:18:45 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Upcoming talks and booksignings

For Mike in So. CA

I've done two talks and signings in San Diego in the last few months, but
neither got widely played up in the media (despite efforts by their sponsors
to advertise).  The only one coming up right now anyplace close to S.Cal. is
in Bakersfield in July, date not yet finalized.  Since I'm not funded to do
these gigs, I try to arrange them in places where my teaching and consulting
practice takes me.  There's a fairly decent chance I'll be doing some work in
eastern Riverside County in the next few months, probably travelling through
LA, so if there's interest in setting something up, it could probably be
arranged.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:20:00 EDT
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Re: Centigrade & Fahrenheit

> From Ric
>
> 28F?  That's some cold gas.

That was the temperature which Bob said corresponded to 53 gal weighing 318 lb.
I also thought it seemed a little cool. . I took his figure at gospel for the
purposes of showing that even with this enormous temperature difference (28F - 120F)
there was still  enough ullage space.

Actually the density today varies for different blends and modern avgas is not
the same blend as 87 octane in the 30s.

Consequently I don't think we can specify the temperature at which a weight of
318lb occupied 53 gal with any degree of accuracy.

Angus.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:25:07 EDT
From:         Ric
Subject:      No Forum Friday

I'll be traveling tomorrow but the forum will resume on Saturday.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:44:08 EDT
From:         Dale Intolubbe
Subject:      Re: Temperature Conversion

Ric, the temperatures quoted as official are not taken in direct sunlight.
Objects such as storage drums can reach very high temperatures, in some
cases well over 150 degrees F, when placed in the direct sun with little or
no breeze, hence the success of solar heaters.

I never lurk in the direct sun.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:50:05 EDT
From:         Ross Devitt
Subject:      Re: Temperature Conversion

Bob Sherman suggested my thermometers may be faulty and although that
proved not to be the case it got me thinking.  Three of my thermometers
have black casings so I found a white one.  After 10 minutes in the same
spot, the white one reads 110degF and two of the black ones read 131deg
F and rising.

However that in itself is interesting in the context of fuel drums.  Not
many fuel drums are white, in fact most are dark, which suggests that
the temperatures actually absorbed by the fuel drums are probably
somewhere between the readings given by the black and the white
thermometers - close to Angus's figures!

Th' WOMBAT
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:59:26 EDT
From:         Ric
Subject:      Nauticos results

Sorry I can't divulge the source for the following but let's just say it is
very reliable.

Nauticos has concluded its deep water search and has found nothing of
significance.  They were at sea for 35 days and searched an undisclosed
portion of their targeted area.  There were numerous equipment problems.
They are eager to go back but will need to raise more money.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:32:15 EDT
From:         Doug Brutlag
Subject:      Re: Nauticos results

<<Nauticos has concluded its deep water search and has found nothing of
significance.  They were at sea for 35 days and searched an undisclosed
portion of their targeted area.  There were numerous equipment problems.
They are eager to go back but will need to raise more money.>>

Gluttons for punishment, Ric?
**************************************************************************
From Ric

I guess that depends on whether they're self-funded or able to get investers.
Nauticos has gotten a tremendous amount of press out of just trying.  As
long as they don't announce that they have given up, it's not a "failed
search" - just an "ongoing search" that they're confident will be ultimately
successful.

In all fairness, the only difference between what they're doing and what we
do is that we actually have found some hard evidence (not proof, mind you)
that supports our hypothesis.
***************************************************************************
From Joe

Hi Ric
Gee whiz...they didnt find the Amelia's plane?  And they need more $$.....I
know a bridge for sale in Brooklyn!
Joe W3HNK
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:08:30 EDT
From:         Ric
Subject:      Research needed

A very interesting anecdote has surfaced that needs to be investigated so
that we can assess its possible veracity.  Tom King was recently at his old
hometown of Petaluma, California and sent me this:

"Chris Strohmeyer and I met yesterday with Werner Ottens, who as an
8-year-old kid in Dutch Guyana saw AE and Fred land and depart on the World
Flight.  Chris audiotaped our interview.  Werner loaned us a videotape of the
8 mm film one of his parents' colleagues took; I'll get it copied today,
along with some very high-quality B&W prints of AE and FN with the Dutch
welcoming committee.  Nothing that looks terribly new, but possibly some
details of the plane, clothing, etc. that we didn't have before.  Antennae
clearly visible, AE's belt buckle apparent (very ordinary buckle), and she's
carrying the thermos when she hops out of the plane.  We have an address for
someone in Holland who might be able to get us the original film if it's
useful; there may be some views of the belly that Jeff Glickman could do
something with.

"Werner also says that he talked with a guy named Bill Bauer in Lone Pine some
years ago who claimed that as a US Navy Lt. in 1942 he'd been on Niku and
been told by someone that he, the someone, had seen AE there.  I have a hunch
it's another Saipan or Mili story that he's transposed onto Niku, but maybe
worth some pursuit.  Supposedly Bauer let a reporter from the LA Times know
about it,and got in trouble for it, so the Times might have something. Bauer
is dead,but Werner gave us the name, address,and phone of his son, who lives
in Sacramento and supposedly has his papers."

I replied to Tom:

"USS Swan visited Gardner in 1942.  That's the only visit we know of by a U.S.
Navy ship that year.  Shouldn't be too hard to confirm or deny that there was
an officer by that name aboard.

"<< I have a hunch it's another Saipan or Mili story that he's transposed onto
Niku, ... >>

"Maybe, but those stories are almost always told by enlisted men.  This one
"feels" different to me.  I agree. I think it's worth chasing.

"A key question is, when did Bauer tell Ottens this story?  If it was before
1989 and if Bauer really did say Nikumaroro (or more likely Gardner) that is
very significant.  Nobody but Floyd Kilts was talking about AE being on
Gardner before we started blowing that horn.

"Is Ottens a Niku theory fan?  Did Bauer say some other island and Ottens
later changed it to Niku?"

Tom replied:

"Ottens is not a Niku theory fan.  I get the impression that he's sort of an
agnostic, collects all the theories, doesn't have a great deal of preference
for one over another.  Didn't seem particularly knowledgeable about any of
them, didn't quite know what we were doing but knew we were doing something;
also had some knowledge of Nauticos, and had almost everyone's books.  When
we see him next Saturday at the talk, and return his stuff, I'll see if he
can clarify when he talked with Bauer.

"Mr. Ottens has had a lifelong fascination with Earhart, because of his
experience witnessing her landing in Dutch Guyana en route to Africa, Lae,
and eternity.  He owns just about every major book written about the
disappearance.  He started flying in 1949, and seems to have been attracted
to Lone Pine, CA because, he says, it's where George Putnam lived after he
remarried, long after AE's disappearance.  I take it Mr. Ottens has flown
into Lone Pine fairly regularly.  In the course of such visits he met Dave
Bauer, who lived there and said he'd been a lieutenant in the U.S. Navy in
1942 when his ship visited Nikumaroro.  There, he says Bauer said, a resident
told him that he had seen AE on the island.  As far as Mr. Ottens can
remember, the resident did NOT say he'd seen the Electra or any part thereof,
but AE herself (This is the major thing that makes me think this is not
really a Niku story but some variant on the Saipan/Mili/Chuuk/elsewherein Micronesia
story transposed to Niku).  According to Mr. Ottens, Bauer said that a
reporter for the LA Times had been aboard his ship, and he, Bauer, had told
the story he'd heard to the reporter.  As a result, he, Bauer got in trouble
with his superiors, who ordered the story kept quiet.

"Bauer is now dead, but his son lives in Sacramento and is supposed to have
his father's papers.  Mr. Ottens called him on 2/26/2000, spoke with his
wife, left a message asking him to return his call, but never got a
call-back.   I suggest that some particular Forumite take the responsibility
for contacting him, very carefully to avoid undue irritation.  Another line
of research would be the LA Times, of course."

To the forum:

So we need a TIGHAR member volunteer in the Sacramento area who is willing to
try to contact and possibly visit Bauer's son and see what more we can learn
about the story.  I'll provide a name and phone number.

We also need to revisit the research we did on the visit of the Swan.  The
bit about an L.A. Times reporter being aboard sounds pretty strange.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:19:56 EDT
From:         David Carmack
Subject:      Re: Nauticos results

wow!! you can see how hard it is for anyone trying to do explore anything
controversial to keep persevering with all the instant ridicule heaped on
them if they dont provide instant gratification to the masses!! imagine if
all the early explorers ,inventors, etc. had taken all the verbal abuse to
heart and given up their quests. nauticos may be wrong and it may be a waste
of time and money depending on ones perspective, but at least they are
spending the money and effort as they said they would. at any rate, if they
are unsuccessful it will eliminate one theory and if this people who are
castigating them didnt put up their own money why complain about it??
david
***************************************************************************
From Ric

We're well aware of how hard it is to persevere in the face of castigation.
We've been doing it for 14 years.  Peer review is an essential element in any
investigation and anyone who tackles a problem like this had better be ready
to answer the critics.

No matter what Nauticos does, no matter how many failed searches they make,
or how much money they spend, they will not eliminate any theory.

I am not interested in berating Nauticos or saying I-told-you-so.  We have
work to do.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:08:27 EDT
From:         Mike Haddock
Subject:      Re: Nauticos results

Well said!  Where do these guys come from?
LTM (who appreciates all that you & Pat do for TIGHAR)
Mike Haddock #2438
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:45:15 EDT
From:         Angus Murray
Subject:      Re: Research needed

Has any research been done on the meaning of place names on Niku? It occurs
to me that places are often named after the most obvious local feature
(Tombstone, Dead Man's Gulch etc). Where there are few topographical
oddities to call on, an abandoned camp, an aircraft wreck or the bones of
a castaway might well inspire such a name.  Does Niurabo derive from
"Nei - abo" - the aboriginal Nei Manganibuka (AE / Man gone in buka)?
I think we should be told.

Regards Angus

***************************************************************************
From Ric

Yes, we've been very interested in Niku place names.  It's a fascinating
subject but I'm afraid there are no apparent references to airplanes or bones.
Ritiati - pronounced REEsas is "Richards", the name of the WPHC High
Commissioner when the settlement scheme was approved.

Noriti - pronounced NORis is "Norwich" (even though the district is some
distance from the shipwreck).

Nutiran - pronounced newZEEran was originally I-Nutiran (EE-newZEEran)
meaning "New Zealanders" because the NZ survey party was camped there when
the first work party arrived.

Tatiman - pronounced TASman is the main lagoon passage and is named for the
Tasman Sea (again a reference to New Zealand).

Tekibeia - pronounced tekibeeEYEa was made up from parts of the names of some
of the early settlers.  The same is true of Aukeraime (aukerEYEmee) and
Taraia (tarEYEa).

Ameriki (or Amerika) - is the Coast Guard Station which, sometime around 1954
when the Americans were long gone, became Tionrati (SUNras), a
transliteration of Sunrise.

Niurabo - pronounced neeooRABoh, is.....a mystery.  We don't know where the
name came from or what it means or even where the place is.  It appears in
none of the official literature or maps.  Former island resident Risasi
Finikaso says it was a place sacred to Nei Manganibuka and it is mentioned in
a song called Nei Manganibuka's Chant, but Risasi, who left the island when
she was a child, never knew where the place was.

Nei (Ms.) Manganibuka is an ancient Gilbertese name.  I once asked Kiribati
Customs chief Katuna Kaitara what it meant and he gave a nervous laugh and
muttered something about reference to female genitals.  He was clearly
uncomfortable so I dropped the subject.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:50:50 EDT
From:         David Carmack
Subject:      Re: Nauticos results

I hope mike was not referring to me. altho I have not contributed funds
to TIGHAR  I  have followed your efforts from the very beginning, ordering
some of your first Tighar Tracks. It is a shame how a person can only state
a reality like I did and people act like I was attacking you! Of course it
is just like you said, people have to expect ridicule when they attempt
something new or different---I was only saying how pitiful it is that
ignorant people criticize them till they are either proven wrong or
right---I wasnt saying and nowhere in my post did i say I was refering to
yours or anyone else's opinion here on the forum about nauticos. In fact ,
my post could have just as easily have been referring to your efforts and
peoples jabs at you, as you stated. What I was saying is that its good that
there are people and groups out there that are willing to go forward with
their efforts in spite of public opinion as long as their project is sincere
.I applaud you and Nauticos and anyone else with the courage of their
convictions! Of course, most of us here believe you are on the right track.
Keep up the good work. Funny, I guess a person really has to explain their
thoughts in excruciating detail in such a partisan atmosphere. Hey guys, I'm
on your side!! I want the search for Amelia to be successful like everyone
else and I would like nothing better than for Ric to be the one to find the
truth. But dont try to make me an enemy without understanding the facts.
thanks Ric----I know this is a waste of your time     David
***************************************************************************
From Ric

Thanks David.  What can I tell you?  People feel strongly about this stuff
and all of us (myself included) sometimes take offense where none was meant.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:33:09 EDT
From:         Ron Bright
Subject:      Re: Research needed

The story of Lt Bill Bauer appears in Goerner's book,p.171, who as a member
of the Navy forces at Majuro heard the American lady pilot story from the
native Marshallese Elieu.This was in 1944. Another Navy officer, Lt Jimmy
Toole heard the story. And of course this story was repeated to LT Eugene
Bogan. Bogan produced the news clipppings from a reporter Eugene Burns. NY
Daily News. the New York Sun and the Oakland Tribune had the dateline of 22
Mar 44. Eliue story came from a Jap trader Ajiima, then deceased. Hearysay.
The island was Mili where the American lady came down, but no man accompanied
her.

Ajima and a "Mrs Clements" are the only two witnesses to the alleged Mili
crash.
**************************************************************************
From Ric

Ahhhhh shi---.  Oh well.  Never mind.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:02:01 EDT
From:         Suzanne Astorino
Subject:      Frend Bilong Mi (Friend Belong Me, My Friend)

Ric was discussing the "language of the Islands" and it reminded me of an
interesting photo I had seen on the AE Purdue site.

Located here:
http://www.lib.purdue.edu/earhart/images/VIII.G.7.jpg
(file size only 104 kb)

Purdue describes this as:  "Four pages from a pamphlet written in a foreign
language.  Pages are torn and battered."

However, it seems to me that it's not a foreign language, but instead the
"Pig / Pidgin English" that island natives use.

Does anyone have more insight on this item?  What is the body of the letter
saying?  What about the symbol which looks like the German Iron Cross?
http://www.thirdreichmedals.com/pictures/deumerrk.jpg

Thanks,
Suzanne
**************************************************************************
From Ric

New Guinea "Pisin" (Pidgin) is not used by "island natives".  It's a trade
language used in New Guinea and was cobbled together from smatterings of
English, German, and Motu ( a local language).  I learned to "tok Pisin"
(talk pidgin) a little when we did some research in Papua New Guinea back in
'86.

 The text tells a story about a king who visits someone's house during the
rainy season.  It's hard to get much more than that from the fragment.  It's
not clear what the Maltese cross is about but I think it's likely that the
pamphlet is a religious parable put out by the ever-present missionaries.

Pisin is a wonderful and, for English speakers, often a hilarious language.
The Prince of Wales, for example, is "Numba won pickininny bilong Misus
Quen".  However, it is not used outside New Guinea and has no real bearing on
the Earhart case.

Laikim Long Mama,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:09:37 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Re: Research needed

On preliminary review of the Swan research, I don't find a Bauer.
The officers signing the deck logs were Harper, Lorenzen, Napier, and
Bresmeyer. Also checked the muster roll for enlisted mens names and no luck.
Ensign Pittman was escorting some enlisted men to Canton. At Canton, the Swan
picked up these passengers as you are aware:
Wernham, David Curtiss Innes, Acting Admin. Offcer, Phoenix Is. District
Major, Robert Milne, Cadet Officer
Tamia, Aram, Houseboy
Banaba, Esene, Policeman
Auatahu, Rami, Carpenter
Homasi, Tito Moeno, Radio Operator.

Will keep looking.

regards,
Ron Dawson, 2126
****************************************************************************
From Ric

Thanks Ron but no need.  As Ron Bright points out, this is clearly just a
corruption of a tale told to Goerner about a supposed Earhart sighting on
Mili.  This stuff happens all the time.  People transpose stories from island
to island, get the dates screwed up, etc.  That's why it's so nice when the
occasional story DOES check out - as with Kilts' story about bones found on
Gardner and Mims and Gesinger independently telling the same story about bits
of aluminum inlaid into souvenir kanawa wood boxes being from a "downed
airplane" that was once on Gardner.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 30 Apr 2002 16:02:03 EDT
From:         Marjorie in Montana
Subject:      Re: Frend Bilong Mi (Friend Belong Me, My Friend)

Ric: You'd better add Spanish or Portuguese to your sources for New Guinea
pidgin since that is the apparent origin of "pickaninny" -- at least
according to my dictionary (American Heritage, third edition).

LTM,
Marjorie
***************************************************************************
From Ric

The word may have come into English from Spanish or Portugese but it was a
slang term for a black child for a long time.  The Pisin word for jail is
"calaboose".