Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:19:06 EDT
From:         Jack
Subject:      Itasca crew questions

I hope this isn't the one hundred and first time someone is asking these questions but I am still trying to get up to speed on the various investigations.

1. What was  Army Air Corps Lt. Daniel Cooper doing aboard a Coast Guard vessel?

2. I read someplace on the Forum that the Itasca radio operator was a chap named Ciprianni. Was there another shift operator named Bill Galten?

Regards,
Jack, 2157

***************************************************************

From Ric

>1. What was  Army Air Corps Lt. Daniel Cooper doing aboard a Coast Guard
>vessel ?

He was in charge of a couple of mechanics who were supposed to help service her plane.

>2. I read someplace on the Forum that the Itasca radio operator was a chap
>named Ciprianni.

Cipriani manned the high-frequency direction finder on Howland Island.  He was a Coast Guardsman but he wasn't actually part of the Itasca's regular crew.  He was borrowed from another vessel.

>Was there another shift operator named Bill Galten?

Yes.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:24:41 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      More Noonan info

Congrats to Jerry for the maritime information!  The saga of "our Fred" slowly unfolds.

This from the New Orleans Times-Picayune:

July 6, 1937: CAPTAIN NOONAN ONCE LIVED HERE
Amelia Earhart's Navigator Quit Sea for Airplanes.

That Captain Fred J. Noonan, a former resident of New Orleans and employee of the Mississippi Shipping Company left the lure of the sea for that of the air was recalled here Monday by friends, when news was received that rescue ships were believed nearing him and Amelia Earhart in the Pacific waters.

Capt. Noonan once lived at 5909 Catina St., next door to Mr. & Mrs. Edward F. Stumpf, 5907 Catina St.

"We remember him well," Mr. Stumpf said Monday. "He was married to the former Josephine Sullivan while he lived in New Orleans. He met her, he told me, at a dancing school show. I remember when he quit the sea because he wanted to take up aviation, not necessarily as a pilot, but in a navigating capacity".

"I remember Noonan when he used to come out to the airfield and watch the fliers," Henry Chapman, president of the Chapman Air Service at Shushan Airport, recalled Monday. "I remember he got his commercial license just a little while before he flew his first solo flight at Menefee Air Field". (note: yes, that what it says).

July 7, 1937: FRIEND OF NOONAN WON'T TALK ABOUT HIM, BY REQUEST.
Keeps Counsel on Shipmate Days With Earhart Navigator

If the name of Captain Fred J. Noonan, former New Orleanian and Amelia Earhart's navigator, is in the newspapers all over the world, it is not of his own choosing.

Nor is it that of his old shipmate, Aubrey M. Alexander, 3216 Bienville Street, chief engineer of a New Orleans brewing company.

The cause became known Tuesday of Mr. Alexander's unwillingness to give any interview with respect to his acquaintance with the former employee of the Mississippi Shipping Co. who left the sea here to enter aviation, obtained a commercial flying license and made his first solo flight at the old Menefee Airport.

In a letter from Noonan to his intimate friend, the injunction was laid upon Mr. Alexander never to discuss their friendship for newspaper publication, and Mr. Alexander, Tuesday, wouldn't. Dislike of notoriety was one factor in his refusal but the controlling influence was the postscript of that treasured letter. It didn't contain any reservations with respect to whether Noonan might be safe or missing, alive or dead, and Mr. Alexander didn't see his way clear to reading any into it.

It was learned, however, that they had been on most of the seas and in most of the ports of the world together in the days when Mr. Alexander was a seafaring man, himself; that Noonan was his best man when Mr. Alexander married, and godfather to his daughter, who resides at the Bienville St. address; that when Capt. Noonan visited New Orleans late in May with Amelia Earhart, he sent a request to his old friend to communicate with him.

The rest of the story is for Mr. Alexander to tell; and the fact that he wouldn't tell it was Tuesday's story.

Ron D. 2126

*************************************************************

From Ric

There's sure some interesting stuff here.  Let's get on the FAA and see if we can find out whether Fred ever had a license.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:27:34 EDT
From:         Jack J.
Subject:      Lockheed 10 documentation

I will copy and send a copy of the pages of the Lockheed Electra Model 10-A maintenance manual that indicates the skin thicknesses of the upper and lower wing surfaces. I will also send a copy of the diagram titled "Tailwheel Assembly". It indicates that the tailwheel is a Goodyear Airwheel 16x7-3. A call to any Goodyear aviation tire dealer should be able to give you the exact dimensions of the tire. More importantly they should be able to give you the wheel diameter. The tire surface is rounded and compresses when on the ground under load. The wheel diameter is a better measurement to compare to the faces of our favorite aviators in photographs. I will continue to look for undisputable reference sources for the fuselage skin thicknesses and the dimensions of the rear door.

The maintenance manual gives the overhaul times for the various components of the aircraft. I found it very surprising that the radio and ADF equipment had to be overhauled every 500 hours, inspected daily, and "check" periods every 35, 70, and 140 hours. This manual is kept up to date up through 2-5-1950. This manual is the Lockheed 10-A Maintenance Manual of Wisconsin Airlines. They operated five model 10-As.  I'll copies of the "stuff" ASAP. I banged this out in a hurry and did not "spell check" or check for grammar foe-paws(sic). -ask mother's forgiveness.
Jack J.
****************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Jack.  Mama say s'okay.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:29:58 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Pallette research

For Chris Greenberg

Chris...contact me my direct E-Mail and I will fill you in.  No need to bore the Forum.  It might not be important anyway.  Just a hunch of mine.

Don
djor@cell2000.net
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:31:02 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Toni Carter

Does anyone know if *Flight For Freedom* is available on video tape? Thanks,
Tom
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:34:15 EDT
From:         Debbie Stressner
Subject:      Sextant #s 3500 & 3547

I've followed the online forum as much as I can, and also visit the webpages frequently. It would make sense that these handwritten and stenciled ##s were part of Fred's private inventory system. 35 could stand for the year of purchase and the other two digits would be which one was purchased first, or preference of use.

Deb
****************************************************************

From Ric

Gotta agree with ya.  Now...if we could just prove that.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:01:11 EDT
From:         Barbara M.
Subject:      Can label not Beechnut

Tom King wrote:

> Did the historian at Beechnut say why he was so sure the label was not theirs?
> Because of its appearance, or the wording, or what?  It would be helpful to
> know.

The Historian at Beechnut indicated that their library contains every Beechnut label ever produced.  I sent him to the website to look at the fragment and his response to me was that "it's definitely not ours, it's too large".

BarbaraM

***************************************************************

From Ric

Whoa.  That image on the website is greatly enlarged.  The actual label is tiny.  The entire fragment we have measures only 3 inches by 2 inches at its extreme edges.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:03:17 EDT
From:         Van Hunn
Subject:      Flight for Freedom

Tom Robison asked if the video "Flight For Freedom" is available for purchase.  He can get it from:

Belle & Blade Home Video Co., order # 1-800-365-2104, or customer service # 1-973-328-8488.  website: www.belleandblade.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:10:47 EDT
From:         From Jack
Subject:      More Eugene Pallette

The Internet has info on Mr. Pallette. I found it by searching Silent Movie Actors. Then selecting Classic Movie Home Page. Pallette born in Winfield KS. July 08, 1889----died Sept. 03, 1954 Screen career began in 1911 (silent movies) and includes over 200 pictures. He acted with the best of them. Is in the Hollywood Hall of Fame.

regards,
Jack, 2157
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:12:29 EDT
From:         Michael Strickland
Subject:      Re: Flight for Freedom

I could not find any information on video availability for "Flight for Freedom" on the Internet, but I did find the following comprehensive summary/review/cast and crew listing for the film, if you're interested:

http://www.tvgen.com/movies/mopic/pictures/16/16980.htm
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:13:59 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Need Seattle Help

Anyone on the Forum live in Seattle and have a desire to spend quality library time chasing Noonan history stuff??

Contact me at jham@ccnet.com.

blue skies, (#2128)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:23:20 EDT
From:         Jack J.
Subject:      Lockheed 10 documentation

Here is some additional information about the Model 10-A that would apply to the "E" as well. The airfoil section is a "Clark Y-9". This information should enable you to get a measurement of the wing thickness just inside the right engine nacelle at the main spar. If you compare this thickness to the scaled down thickness in the picture of the aircraft wreckage in the tropical setting, using the propeller as a "known" dimension. It may give you one more point of evidence that the aircraft is an Electra. This is using the assumption that the propeller is a Hamilton Standard prop. Another note: The only Japanese twin engined, twin tailed, aircraft that comes close to looking like the Electra is the Mitsubishi L3M1. It had twin vertical stabilizers located about mid-way between the fuselage and the end of the horizontal stabs. It was 53 ft. long, and had an 82 ft. wingspan. One of these aircraft flew around the world in 1939. Maybe they used AE's maps (tongue in cheek). It had 14 cylinder radial engines in double rows of 7 cylinders.
Jack J.

**************************************************************

From Ric

There is nothing in the wreck photo that says that the airplane is twin-tailed.  The Tachikawa Ki-54 is the best Japanese alternative we've come up with so far but there seem to be some windshield discrepancies and all the Ki-54s we've seen pictures of have spinners on the props.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:25:47 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Noonan pilot?

I spoke with the Airmens Certification Center today in OKC - they were kind enough to run a computer search of records back to 1917 - but did not turn anything up. They agreed to do a more exhaustive search with a written request which I will send out today. (they will waive the usual requirement for an obituary to prove the airman is deceased).

Ron D. 2126

***************************************************************

From Ric

That's the FAA for ya.  Always jumping to conclusions.  It will be interesting to see if anything turns up.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:45:06 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Can label

Just a couple of passing thoughts on the label. Just as the striations may belie the type of can to which the label was adhered, there may also be some microscopic traces of the glue or mucilage used to stick the label to the can, the composition of which, however dry, may still be analyzed and traced with today's forensic methodology. Also, perhaps some newspaper or trade advertisments of the era may yield evidence of the product itself, or at least something contemporaneous enough to indicate the most common usage of that type of product. Just a thought...Best wishes to all, Gene Dangelo :)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:44:58 EDT
From:         Dick Strippel
Subject:      Re: Ric's treatise on fuel (Strippel)

sorry, ric, i still do not beieve CHATER OR COLLOPY ACTUALLY WAS THERE AT THE TIME OF T/O.

HERE'S ANOTHER THING RIC PROBABLY WON'T WANT ME TO SHOW YOU----PRYMAK WENT TO GREAT LENGTHS TO MAKE SURE IT WASN'T AVilable at the "flying lady meet.

ric= if you disagree with the attached, please show sources other than chater report!!!!!!!

DICK

p.s. barbara wiley, Please e-mail me direct.

****************************************************************
From Ric

I have no idea what you're talking about.  Nothing was attached.  I also have no idea why you think that neither Collopy nor Chater was present for the takeoff they each described in their respective contemporaneous letters.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:02:37 EDT
From:         Chris Greenberg
Subject:      Eugene Pallette

Thanks Jack for the tip on the Classic Movie Home Page, and the Hollywood Hall of Fame;  good stuff.

Incidentally, it looks like old Eugene and I share the same birthday, July 8th.  It's coming up Forum members, only six shopping days left.

Chris Greenberg-
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:39:03 EDT
From:         Jim Tierney
Subject:      Re: Ric's treatise on fuel (Strippel)

IS THAT MAN BACK AGAIN-------------
Jim Tierney
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:44:00 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Poor Fred

Turns out Fred lost his Mom by the time he was 7. Joseph T. Noonan, from Maine, shows up in the 1900 census for North Town, Cook county, Chicago. He was living as a boarder at 212 Erie street. His marital status is "widowed" and Fred is not listed. He was born May of 1861. Both his parents are from Ireland. He can read, write, and speak english. His occupation is "collector" (he must have been on an undercover assignment <g>). So what's become of our Fred? He said in his maritime records that he left for Seattle in the summer of '05. I'm working on it.

Blue skies, jham (#2128)
*************************************************************
From Ric

An interesting picture of "our" Fred is beginning to emerge.  Good work, Jerry.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:32:46 EDT
From:         Deb
Subject:      Re: ABC News

As a very new member of the forum, I have to tell you I am extremely impressed by TIGHAR's commitment and dedication to solving the mystery of Amelia's disappearance (although not the lease bit impressed with the dippy ABC reporter and his skeptical, obnoxious remarks, especially the one about the shoe).  Ric, you handled yourself very professionally!  This story gave me much more information about your group and how committed you are to finding the TRUTH. It also made me lose any respect I held for Linda Finch -- her attitude regarding not wanting to know what happened to Amelia took me a little bit by surprise.  How absurd!  But to you and all your crew -- job well done on the last expedition!

Although this may have come up before (as I said, I'm really new to this), I offer this thought:  I personally wear a size 7 1/2 shoe.  However, my riding boots (which are similar in heel style, etc. to the shoes and boots worn by Amelia), are a size 8 1/2 and anyone who wears this type of shoe can tell you that sizes are completely different (just as ballet shoes run two sizes smaller than your normal size).  I, personally, am convinced that this shoe heel found on the island did belong the Amelia -- who else could it have belonged to?

I hope that soon you will be able to make another trip to the island and find the evidence you need to solve this mystery.  And you were right, Ric -- SHE deserves that.  I wish I could be of more help, but I have no background or knowledge in any of these areas -- just a fascination with the amazing woman and a sincere desire to let her be  finally laid to rest.  Sixty-one years is long enough.
Love to mother,
   ~DEB~
**************************************************************

From Ric

Thank you Deb.  Don't be too upset with Robert Krulwich.  His good-natured (okay, dippy) skeptical manner gave me something to play off of.  I had a blast doing the show.

I can't say enough for the film crew that was with us on the expedition.  The producer, Howie Masters, is ethical, brave, self-effacing and creative.  What the hell he's doing in television is the real mystery.  The cameraman, Sam Painter, has now been on three TIGHAR expeditions and is literally part of the TIGHAR family.  The soundman, Kenny Kosar, about died because Howie wouldn't let him surf the breakers at Niku (he actually had his board with him) but he took the disappointment in stride.  Great guys.

My riding boots run bigger than my shoe size too. (What kind of horse ya got?)

We're just now finalizing the dates and logistics for Niku IIII.  Next weekend we'll be hashing all that out at the team meeting and conference in San Francisco, then I'll let everyone know the plan and we'll all have to get serious about making it happen.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 11:52:18 EDT
From:         Ann
Subject:      TV Program

I watched the show and found it interesting. It was helpful to see Niku and Kanton as this helps me to visualize the environment better. It was also good to see you and the other team members especially on film. And the singing was a giggle too. Now I really wish that I was able to attend the conference but I must be on the other coast at that time. Will there be conference materials (notes, etc.) available for purchase later? I'd be interested.
Cheers, Ann #2101

**************************************************************

From Ric

The singing!  Someday I'll find a way to get even with Howie (the producer) for that one.  The impression created is that we troop through the jungle singing away like the seven dwarfs.  Geeesh.

The singing happens at night, after dinner aboard the boat, when everyone has written up their field notes for the day, and has listened to a harangue from me, and has discussed how we're going to tackle the next day's work. Sometimes then, the Fijian boat crew will come in with guitars and ukuleles to serenade us from their repertoire.  Other times, various members of the team will offer song parodies they've been working on during the really boring search operations.  The songs (there are dozens) are just one of the ways we've found to stay semi-sane in an environment that is not nearly as romantic as it looks on tape. But I can now predict with great confidence that the next time we're out there, this team of smartasses will troop through the jungle singing away just like they did on television.  Life imitates art.

As for the conference,  I'll certainly report to the forum on what was discussed and decided.  We won't hold up information like that for purchase. Don't worry, there'll be plenty of chances to contribute to the cause.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:09:37 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      The Growing Forum

Our forum continues to grow - as of today (7/3) we have 325 subscribers - with the addition of new and fascinating people.  Here are self-descriptions from just a few.  I've not posted their names.  They'll let you know who they are, if they choose to, through their forum postings.

**********************************
I am the author of the novel, The Earhart Mission, listed in your bibliography.  I did research and accumulated a first rate collection of books by and about AE when I did the book in the late 70s.  In any event, I am interested in your efforts.

********************************

25 years as a U.S. Treasury Agent, gathering evidence and witness testimony for presentation and proof beyond a reasonable doubt that certain events did or did not occur, etc. Have done 1000's of witness interviews, am familiar with forensics, rules of evidence, etc. I have been a model airplane builder and aviation history buff for over 40 years. I got interested in the Earhart saga in 1982 and can't let it go. Best wishes to TIGHAR in solving this mystery.

***********************************************

I have been making historical television documentaries for many years & have an extensive background in research as well as 17 years in crime scene investigation/photography. If this is the kind of experience that may be useful to you please let me know if I can be of any assistance.

*********************************************

HF radio, being electronic engineer, radio technician, knowing in detail WW II aircraft radio gear, and amateur radio operator using trailing wire antennas in mobile op. at more than 2,000 hours.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:23:06 EDT
From:         N. Hodge
Subject:      Need Gen'l info

I am forwarding a letter from my father who is doing life in prison.  I could use some help in answering his questions or some facts that he may be unaware of.  He has no way to get obtain up to date information and his never seen the films.  I joined the forum because of him and have sent most of the EMail to him that I have read.  Still my father has read what books are available to him and has developed his own theories.  Due to his continuing request I will send his letter forward.  If any one would care to enlighten him about anything I will forward it to him.

Thank You  N. Hodge

From D. Williams:
I have aways suspected that certain information and facts may not have been published after the AE's disaperince in 1937.  I have gathered what information I can but I am sure there is a lot more to the story. A letter from Lockheed Aircraft states AE's plane had twin Pratt & Whitney 450hp motors when AE took off March 17th from Oakland,CA., destenation Wheeler Field, HI.  The distance was 2,409 mi.  Lockheed aircraft mechanic Paul Nants that had installed the aux.fuel system accompanied AE as advisor.  He monitored fuel consumtion meters and arrived at a conculsion that the plane would consume between 960 and 1,050 gallons of fuel during the planned Hawaii to Howland Island flight. The airplane had been grosly over weight with spare parts, totaling 14,049 pounds in addition to the extra fuel. After the accident at Wheeler Field AE's plain was overhauled and two Wright Whirlwind 550hp engines were put on the plane which would have played havoc with the Lockheed mechnic's estimated fuel consumption.   In addition there was reported to have been a 17-20mph headwind quarting from the NE.  There were also questions about the 'robot pilot', that had presented problems furing shake down runs after the overhaul at Burbank.  Thirdly AE had made a deal with Bendix Radio Corp., in exchange for using their radio she would recieve $10,000.  A fourth factor having been a top secret military radio direction finder had been installed in the plane after the 3-20-37 crash and AE did not have sufficent time to become familiar with using it.  The fifth and final factor, the planeaccording to Lockheed "did not" have enough fuel for a 2,500 mile flight.  Reflecting back NGP 1-98 atricel, the writer stated the plane had enough fuel to fly 4000 miles.  Also the Itassic had reported problems with its radio antanna 6-28-37 after arriving 'on station' near Howland Island.  During the inspection at Wheeler Field a 'blown fuse' had been replaced in the reciver.  Generator cutouts had been adjusted, but the aircraft maintence was not exactly the state of the art in 1937. I concur with Ric on one point. Naruc Island is the  most likely place where AE may have either ditched in the sea or made a forced landing.

??? What are the bases for your conclusion Naru is the likelist place where AE may have ditched ?
??? In regards to the inventory on the plane in Hawaii, was there a camara on board?
??? What type of motors were on the plane?
??? Can you estamate the fuel consumption?  Lockheed indicated cruise speed at 196 mph, max. 202 mph.  How come it would have taken more than 18 hours for a 2,500 mile flight?  2500=196=ets, 12+7 mins.
??? I have a map indicating Itassic two different locations, one near Solmon Island, one near Howland was it both places?
D. Williams Waiting your response.

*************************************************************

From Ric

I'll be happy to reply to Mr. Williams.  The principal problem faced by most Earhart researchers is the abundance of bad information that has been published.  No one can reach valid conclusions from invalid data.

>A letter from Lockheed Aircraft states AE's plane had twin Pratt & Whitney
>450hp motors when AE took off March 17th from Oakland, CA., destination Wheeler
>Field, HI.

If there is such a letter it is in error.  Earhart's airplane was ordered, built, and delivered - and ultimately disappeared - with 550 h.p. Pratt & Whitney R1340 S3H1 engines, serial numbers 6149 and 6150.  All contemporaneous Lockheed and Bureau of Air Commerce records agree on this point and all known photos support it.

>AE had made a deal with Bendix Radio Corp., in exchange for using their
>radio she would receive $10,000.

I am aware of no documentation to support such an allegation.

>(A) top secret military radio direction finder had been installed in the
>plane after the 3-20-37 crash and AE did not have sufficient time to become
>familiar with using it.

I am aware of no documentation to support such an allegation.

>(T)he plane, according to Lockheed, "did not" have enough fuel
>for a 2,500 mile flight.

If someone at Lockheed said that, they were wrong.  The airplane left Lae with 1,100 U.S. gallons of fuel.  Power management guidelines prepared specifically for Earhart by Lockheed indicate that the airplane, with that fuel load, should have remained aloft for 24 hours at a cruising speed of 130 kts. That's 3,120 nautical miles in still air.

>What are the bases for your conclusion Naru is the likelist place where AE
>may have ditched ?>>

I assume you mean Nikumaroro (formerly known as Gardner Island).  Our conclusion is based upon:
1.  Standard navigational procedures in use in 1937
2.  Earhart's own announcement that she was flying on a "157-337" line
3.  The theoretical maximum range of the aircraft
4.  Post-loss radio signals believed to be from Earhart
5.  Known and rumored events at Nikumaroro
6.  Artifacts recovered from Nikumaroro

>In regards to the inventory on the plane in Hawaii, was there a camera on
>board?

No.

>Can you estimate the fuel consumption?  Lockheed indicated cruise speed at
>196 mph, max. 202 mph.  How come it would have taken more than 18 hours for a
>2,500 mile flight?  2500=196=ets, 12+7 mins.>>

See above.  An airplane's normal cruising speed and top speed are very different from its best economical cruising speed. Climbs and winds also greatly effect time en route.

>I have a map indicating Itassic two different locations, one near Solomon
>Island, one near Howland was it both places?>>

Itasca was standing just offshore Howland Island.  It was nowhere near the Solomon Islands.

I hope these answers are useful to you.

Ric Gillespie
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:31:41 EDT
From:         Dustymiss
Subject:      Re: Poor Fred

And it explains a lot of things, too about our Fred.

Fred might have gotten shoved off onto an maiden aunt, or the like, as was the custom back then to deal with children of widowers, which is why he may not show up on that census.

It also explains why Fred - coming from a good Irish household of that time had no siblings - and certainly explains his penchant for drink - being at least 75% pure Irish.
*************************************************************

From Ric

I don't think this tells us anything about whether or not he had siblings, and being Irish doesn't give him a penchant for drink any more than being black would make him lazy.  I trust you were speaking in jest.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 13:34:10 EDT
From:         Ann
Subject:      Shoe sizes

In a recent forum posting from "Deb" she mentions that one individual may have shoes of different sizes. I agree. I normally wear a woman's size 8 1/2 but both the boots I wear for flying and those I wear for skydiving are larger.
Love to Mother, Ann#2101
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:41:30 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Singing

Ric wrote:

> The singing!  ... The impression created is that we troop through the
>jungle singing away like the seven dwarfs.  Geeesh.

Some may believe the singing was one of the best parts.  Worst was that there were no soloists, and the composer was not credited.  RC  941

***************************************************************

From Ric

Actually, the song used on the show was the first of the many and dates way back to 1989.  As you'll recall, it's sung to the tune of Waltzing Matilda (despite official protests from the Australian Embassy) and is entitled:

Finding Amelia

Once a crazy lady vanished in an aeroplane,
Crazy, but not near so crazy as we,
For we sing as we search
Through the blacktip sharks and Buka trees,
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me.

(chorus)
Finding Amelia
Finding Amelia
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me

For we sing as we search
Through the blacktip sharks and Buka trees,
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me.

High o'er the island soar the mighty Frigate Birds
Far down below, sweating searchers they see.
Target in sight!  Bombs away!  cry the Frigate Birds.
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me.

(chorus)
Finding Amelia
Finding Amelia
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me
Target in sight!  Bombs away!  cry the Frigate Birds.
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me.

Out goes the Dive Team riding in their Zodiac
Up swim the blacktips, one, two, three.
Who's that tasty Dive Team you've got in your Zodiac?
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me.

(chorus)
Finding Amelia
Finding Amelia
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me.
Who's that tasty Dive Team you've got in your Zodiac?
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me.

Five British seamen, six Arab firemen
One Irish expat, Fred and AE*
And their ghosts may be heard
In the breeze among the Buka trees
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me.

(chorus)
Finding Amelia.....
And their ghosts may be heard
In the breeze among the Buka trees
You'll come a-finding Amelia with me.

(*reference to the drowned crewmembers of the S.S. Norwich City, the British colonial administrator who died on the island, and of course, our heroes.)

To avoid indictment and extradition by Australian authorities, I maintain that I found the lyrics carved on a coconut.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 3 Jul 1998 16:36:18 EDT
From:         Harold Mendelson
Subject:      Absolutely convinced?

ABC's  "What Happened to Amelia Earhart?" that aired last night was fascinating to me.  I found the reporter Robert Krulwich using typical TV Magazine style to dramatize the story, but based on my viewing I did not find him "smartass" as you characterized him in your 24 June email. Perhaps  his  off camera personality was different.

I was amazed at your reply to his point-blank question to you:  "Do you think you have solved the mystery of Amelia Earhart's disappearance?"  Your reply was "I'm absolutely convinced that we have solved the mystery".   (I taped the TV program and re-played this exchange to verify that I had heard you correctly)

In all of your comments on the AE Search Forum, I received the strong impression that you are a thorough, unemotional, conservative scientist. I did and still do admire your measured and considered approach to this ongoing investigation.  Would you comment on this apparent conflict?

The artifacts you found on Gardner are tantalizing and intriguing, and strongly suggest that more definitive positive evidence may still be found on Gardner.  However, I do not want to believe that you intended to give the impression that  based on the heel of the shoe, the piece of aluminum that may have  been a belly patch and the scrap of plexiglass that may have come from the window of her plane, etc has solved the mystery.    Do you feel that the reporter and their editing of the raw tape tried to create the impression that you had taken a position and were trying to defend it?  I look forward to your comments, and to the July 7th Discovery program.

Harold Mendelson, No. 2082
***************************************************************

From Ric

Thank you for raising this issue.  It's a tough one.  I'll admit that I flinched a bit myself when I saw myself say that (again) last night, but I take full responsibility for saying it.

Here's what happened.  We're standing on the beach at Fire Island having spent the whole day shooting the walking-by-ocean scenes.  To wrap the interview, Krulwich asks, "Do you think you have solved the mystery of Amelia Earhart's disappearance?"

My first reply was a carefully qualified statement which, as I recall, started with something like, "Based upon the information and evidence we have gathered to date, it appears highly probable that...."  at which point the producer cuts me off.

"Look, Ric.  Our audience are not scientists.  They need to believe that you believe in what you're doing.  They need to know that you think that you're right about this."

So Robert asked the question again and I tried a shorter, less qualified answer.

The producer: "Better, but it needs to be even shorter and more definite.  I need like a five second bite"

So I said, "I'm absolutely convinced that we have solved the mystery".

"Good.  Now this time I want you to look straight into the camera and be very definite.

And the result is what you saw on television.  No apologies. Am I really "absolutely convinced that we have solved the mystery?"  Do I really think that we have the right place?  Am I utterly convinced that Nikumaroro will eventually yield up the "smoking gun" Tom Crouch (of the Smithsonian) and everyone else is waiting for?  You better believe it.  I couldn't do this if I felt otherwise, because it requires absolute conviction to keep going in the face of not enough funding, vilification by critics, not enough funding, disappointing research results, not enough funding, frivolous lawsuits from disgruntled media, not enough funding, killer storms, buried engines, and bills and salaries that don't get paid on time, because there's not enough funding.

I'm not looking for sympathy.  I asked for this.  And I don't have any qualms about telling people that I think we're right.  But I also recognize the difference between personal conviction and historical proof.  I learned that lesson the hard way back in 1992 when I tried to convince the world that we had "solved" the Earhart mystery with the evidence we had at that time.  On the Discovery show you'll see a clip of me announcing to a packed press conference that "the case is closed."  Big mistake.  It's the difference between saying, "I believe there is a God." and saying, "I can prove there is a God."  What I said for ABC was intended as the former, but I knew when I said it that some would take as the latter.

And that brings me to the last point I want to make.  Because we have no endowment or grants but must raise all of our funding from either charitable contributions from the public or from media rights fees (ABC paid half of the cost of the expedition for the right to film it) we are forced to market our product - the search for Amelia Earhart - much as AE had to market herself to fund her flying.  To do that means always making a careful distinction between show business and research.  We go to extraordinary (some have called them obnoxious) lengths to keep television representations of our work accurate and honest, but television is theater, no matter how much the documentary makers try to convince us otherwise.

So even though I am "absolutely convinced that we have solved the mystery," I'm also absolutely convinced that I can be (and frequently am) wrong.  I'm looking forward to the day when we can lay the "smoking gun" on Tom Crouch's desk and nobody has to ask me what I think I've done.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Jul 1998 09:51:47 EDT
From:         Michael Strickland
Subject:      Re: ABC News

I caught the show on ABC News last night, and was very impressed!  Great job, and kudos to all involved!  I'm very eager to hear more about Niku III.

I feel terrible; I will be in San Francisco the weekend AFTER all of you will be there, and cannot make it up this weekend.  Maybe next time...
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:13:57 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Shoe origin

Deb wrote:

> I, personally, am convinced that this shoe
>heel found on the island did belong the Amelia -- who else could it have
>belonged to?

I'm not yet fully convinced that the shoe remnants belonged to Amelia, but the question is a valid one.

Who, indeed, could that shoe have belonged to if NOT to Amelia or Fred. This occurred to me while watching the ABC show last night. (well done, Ric)

Even if it is proven later that Amelia and Fred were NEVER on Niku, the mystery of Niku will remain... Who WAS there? Other than the natives who lived there sporadically, someone left a great deal of "trash" on that island, the type of "trash" that native Polynesians would not have access to, such as American shoes, aluminum aircraft parts, plexiglass and canned food.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Ric, I'm not clear on the LORAN station that was on the island. When was it installed, how long was it there? Was it an unmanned site, or were people there operating it?  i.e., does the LORAN site represent an extended presence of human beings other than the natives, or were they just there to install it and then back again to remove it?

I went to Blockbuster tonight, looking for the old Rosalind Russell flick "Flight to Freedom", and/or any of the TV movies or docu's about AE... they had none, and the child behind the counter had no idea who Amelia Earhart was, nor could she have cared less. [sigh]

Tom
**************************************************************

From Ric

The Loran station (USCG Unit 92) was built in July-September 1944 and went on the air that December.  It was manned by 25 Coasties and commanded by Ensign Charles Sopko.  The station was de-activated a year later and disassembled in March of 1946.

Before the discovery of the Tarawa File, as we call it (I like The Gallagher Papers better), we had to answer innumerable questions about whether the shoe remains we found might have belonged to one of the Coasties.  Documentation that Gallagher had, in 1940, found similar shoe parts at what appears to be the same site pretty well answers that.

As for Flight For Freedom, you'll probably have to order it from Belle & Blade as described in a recent posting.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:28:40 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Songs

If you're looking for any interesting songs to sing as you're trooping, don't forget to consult your musician-in-residence! I'm sure that I can find something thought-provoking!--Thanks, Gene Dangelo :)
***************************************************************

From Ric

We only perform original works, but we'd be honored if you'd favor us with your suggestions.

Meanwhile, because there has been some recent discussion about television documentaries, you might enjoy this offering I put together during the last trip to commemorate the efforts of the ABC News film crew:

Wait for the Camera
(to the tune of the old folksong "Wait For the Wagon")

We're gonna make a movie,
A documentary.
We don't do recreations.
We do reality.

But -

Wait for the camera,
Wait for the camera,
Wait for the camera,
And we'll see what we see.

We never stage the action.
We wouldn't fake a shot.
We only shoot what happens.
We go with what we've got.

But -

Wait for the camera,
Wait for the camera,
Wait for the camera,
And we'll see what we see.


We're uninvolved observers.
Forget that we are here.
Just go about your business,
But do it over here!

And -

Wait for the camera,
Wait for the camera,
Wait for the camera,
And we'll see what we see.


We're Howie, Sam and Kenny,
The pride of ABC.
We'll be there in a minute,
or two, or maybe three.

So -

Wait for the camera,
Wait for the camera,
Wait for the camera,
And we'll see what we see.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:47:56 EDT
From:         Dustymiss
Subject:      Irishness and siblingless

I thought I remembered reading in one of the transmissions that Fred was or was thought to be an only child - I must have been mistaken. I try to go back and read the back transmissions to verify my facts - but did not this time.

As regards to his Irish Roots and his penchant for alcohol - yes - it was meant tongue in cheek. For any Irish members of TIGHAR whom I might have offended, I, myself am 1/3 Scottish and 1/3 Irish - the rest a mixture of German, French and Dutch - being able to trace my roots back (at least according to family legend) to George Bernard Shaw - himself and Irishman and a teetotaler.

By the way - I'm the one who requested the samples of Fred and Amelia's handwriting and the color laser photo of the can label - they just arrived today - I thank you for your diligence and the alacrity with which you answered my request and I've already started the search.

Keep up the good work.
**************************************************************

From Ric

I was sure you were kidding.

The popular folklore about the expression teetotaler is that it dates from the temperance drives of the late 19th century when people were urged to sign pre- printed "pledges" that they would either be moderate in their drinking or they could check  "T for Total Abstinence."  Hence, a non-drinker was "T - Total."
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Jul 1998 11:13:12 EDT
From:         Ken Feder
Subject:      ABC News

Now that I've gotten a good look at you on the ABC special (which, I thought was terrific), might I suggest that for the movie we could get that Kramer feller from Seinfeld to play you?

Or not......

Ken Feder
2103

*************************************************************

From Ric

I'm probably the only citizen of the country who never watched Seinfeld, so I'm not sure what you're doing to me.  It's just a shame that Harpo Marx is no longer around.

Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:05:38 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      T-total

It never ceases to amaze me what a source of fascinating information (even though sometimes not right on "topic") the Earhart forum continues to be!

Don Neumann
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:05:57 EDT
From:         Chester
Subject:      Re: Absolutely convinced?

I liked the way you responded. Based on information gathered so far, would you say that a major obstacle to contend with is "Not Enough Funding". just trying to keep it light,  The media is something an undertaking of this magnitude probably requires for minimal funding needs, but could be better off if other avenues were available. 
Love to Mother
Chester #2160

********************************************************

From Ric

No shit.
*******************************************************

From Sam Ginder

Ric:
Good reply and good for you!
Sam Ginder
*******************************************************

From Dustymiss

Bravo, Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:29:51 EDT
From:         Sandy Campbell
Subject:      Semantic caution

> ... that Fred was or was thought to be an only child"

Just to put in my two cents, here...  This is a *very* unsubstantiated and speculative statement to make at this time, (as hindsight shows us others have been in the past).  And we really need to be careful about statements made that are not "proven"... especially putting out to the forum.  It has the potential to just put "fuel on the fire."  Please don't misunderstand me, Ric..;  I appreciate all the enthusiasm and good intent..., but we really need to be a little more discreet about what we "claim" or how we state our speculations...  Accurate genealogy, as with any research, demands this.

Sandy

**************************************************************

From Ric

Yes, we have to be constantly on our guard about allowing speculation to masquerade as fact.  For example, we frequently refer to the "can label." There's little doubt that it's a label of some sort but we really aren't sure that it's from a can.  We should refer to it as the "label fragment."

I think we're all in agreement that we have no information one way or the other at this point as to whether Fred had any siblings.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:38:46 EDT
From:         Dustymiss
Subject:      Semantic caution II

"T" meant total? Well, what d'ya know? Thanks. It just goes to show - you learn something new all the time. :>

And speaking of learning something new, I just read the copy of TIGHAR TRACKS you were so kind to send along with the photo and letters - I was unaware that there is no contemporaneous evidence, to date, that confirms that Fred had a drinking problem. Quel Surprise. I'm sure you've tried to get the employment records on Fred from Pan Am. And they shed no light on this?

Dustymiss

*************************************************************
From Ric

>"T" meant total? Well, what d'ya know? Thanks. It just goes to show - you
>learn something new all the time. 

Ahhh, but that's not what I said.  I can't cite a good reference for that tidbit.  It's just something that I've often heard, so I described it as "folklore."  It may or may not be true.  You really gotta watch us scholarly types. We're always trying to cover our butts.

We've not been able to uncover any Pan Am employment records.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:40:26 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Seinfeld and Harpo

Re:  I'm probably the only citizen of the country who never watched Seinfeld

No you're not.  There are at least two of us.

Re:  It's just a shame that Harpo Marx is no longer around.

Remind me to show you my slide of the Marx Bro's digging a hole.  We use it in training when we talk about using qualified archeological help.

LTM
TK
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:44:19 EDT
From:         Tim
Subject:      Literary references

I have a copy of Fred Goerner's The Search for Amelia Earhart, what is it that you want me to look for in it about Alcoholism and Fred.

I also have a copy of Putnam's Soaring Wings, along with Sharon Garst's Amelia Earhart, Heroine of the Skies, anything in there you want.

Tim

**************************************************************

From Ric

I too have a copy of Goerner's book.  His allegations about Noonan's drinking are purely unsubstantiated anecdote.

I'm looking for any mention of Fred Noonan having a drinking problem which predates Goerner's 1966 book.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:57:53 EDT
From:         S. Franklin
Subject:      Label fragment

Maybe I'm missing something here. The image of the label fragment on your website contains a rectangle with some just barely legible writing on it. Is this a label identifying the artifact or is it part of the artifact itself? If the latter, what does it say?

As for dragging canned bananas halfway around the world to the South Pacific, this strikes me as roughly equivalent to carrying coals to Newcastle. I would think you'd have better chances of success showing the label to the inhabitants of the Pacific nations through which AE flew.

***************************************************************

From Ric

The letters are part of the label and say ROWER PRODUCE.  We can see just a hint of a letter before the first R and we strongly suspect that it was a G, making the worlds GROWER PRODUCE.  The layout of the label also suggests that there was at least one other word before what we can see.  For example: it may
have originally said INDEPENDENT GROWER PRODUCE, but that's just a guess.

As far as dragging canned bananas halfway around the world - that's not speculation.  We know from an inventory of the Electra taken after the Luke Field crash (which happened during a takeoff for Howland Island), that a bag of what appears to be emergency rations included two cans of "ripe banana."
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:06:39 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Discovery Show times

Discovery Signature Series
The Search for Amelia Earhart

Follow an intrepid researcher to a remote island where he thinks Amelia Earhart landed her plane.

Air Time(s) Eastern/Pacific Time:

DSC - 07 Jul 1998 - 10:00 PM
DSC - 07 Jul 1998 - 02:00 AM [I assume this means 08 Jul at 2 a.m.]
DSC - 12 Jul 1998 - 03:00 PM

Are you intrepid, Ric?

Tom
***************************************************************

From Ric

Let's see.  Webster defines intrepid as:

"not alarmed; unafraid; bold; fearless, dauntless; very brave"

Nah.  That storm scared me shitless.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:09:40 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Non-Seinfelders

>I'm probably the only citizen of the country who never watched Seinfeld,

There's at least two of us, Ric

Tom
*************************************************************

From Ric

We're up to three now.  You, me and Tom King.  I suspect a trend.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:14:53 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      More Non-Seinfelders

>I'm probably the only citizen of the country who never watched Seinfeld....

No, there are two.

I caught the show.  A lot of stuff I was glad to get to see.

Have you had a chance to examine the label fragment for striations, etc?
*************************************************************

From Ric

Uh oh.  I'm getting a bad feeling about this.  Let's just acknowledge that lots of us never watched Seinfeld.

Yes.  There are striations on the label fragment.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:30:22 EDT
From:         Mike
Subject:      AE (what else...)

Enjoyed the show... looking forward to Tuesday's version.

A question: If I understand it all correctly, your focus at the moment is to 1) Check out a different area of Niku where you haven't searched, presumably for the aircraft in the crash photo; and look for the Canton engine.

If I may play devils advocate, I've read and enjoyed many of the AE books, and someone's bound to point out that AE crashing on Gardner does not rule out her being captured by the Japanese, becoming Irene Bolan, etc. I guess what I'm saying is that finding the plane does not solve the entire mystery. (At least, not without bones sitting at the controls! Hope you are spared that...)

It would of course lay many stories to rest, (I'm thinking of the Saipan thing with Forrestal, or crashed at sea) and that is undoubtably worth doing.

So anyway, I'm interested in your response to this. Is TIGHAR specifically after discovery of the plane only, or after the whole mystery? Or do we take what we can get?

***************************************************************

From Ric

Your understanding is correct, but add that we'll be looking for more remains and artifacts associated with the site where the bones were found in 1940. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that there's more stuff there.

Diehard conspiracy advocates will never be dissuaded, no matter what we find or where we find it.  A basic understanding of the geo/political situation in the Central Pacific in 1937 makes it clear that, if Earhart and Noonan did end up on Gardner, the notion that Japanese authorities of some description would venture more than a thousand miles into British territory to abduct her in peacetime is ludicrous.

We are interested in finding anything that helps fills out the picture of what really happened - whether it's on Gardner, Saipan or New Jersey.  No.  I take that back.  There will be no expedition to New Jersey.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 5 Jul 1998 21:36:08 EDT
From:         Dick Strippel
Subject:      Message from Strippel

HI, GANG--

IF YOU HAVE BETTER CITES THAN SHOWB ON THIS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.  OTHERWISE, KNOW THAT I"M NOT THE STUPID JERK RIC WOULD LIKE YOU TO THINK I AM!!!!!!

==DICK

P.S. TO BARBARA WILEY- PLEASE E-MAIL ME SOON

73-DICK
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:58:54 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Noonan & Chicago

Ron Dawson wrote:

>This from the New Orleans Times-Picayune:
>
>July 6, 1937: CAPTAIN NOONAN ONCE LIVED HERE
>
>Amelia Earhart's Navigator Quit Sea for Airplanes.
>That Captain Fred J. Noonan, a former resident of New Orleans and employee of
>the Mississippi Shipping Company left the lure of the sea for that of the air...

This might be the Chicago connection, via that canal, we once discussed here.

Incidentally, it looks to me like a pretty hard way to the Mississippi River from Chicago.  It must be a man made canal from the lake then a long way via the Chicago Sanitary and Ship Canal/Illinois River to the Mississippi River just above St. Louis.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:00:52 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Discovery AE Search

I presume everyone remembers the Discovery version of The Search for Amelia Earhart to air Tuesday, July 7th.  It's listed here at 9 PM CDT and repeats at 1 AM Wed.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:09:01 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Tin can research

In anticipation of our possibly having to research tin can corrugations, I've done just a little looking at what I could lay my hands on easily.  All I have is some impressions at this point but I did come across a bit of information that may be of some interest.  It sounds like it might be true.

A book titled, "The Fine Art of the Tin Can." says:

"The old British term 'tinned can' derived from the term 'tinned cannister,' is more accurate than our common term 'tin can.'  Tin cans are made of tinned steel -- steel plated with tin.  The steel provides strength and economy, and the tin resists rust and corrosion.

"The process of tinning iron was invented in Bohemia at the beginning of the sixteenth century.  The earliest tin cans were made from tinned iron so thick and strong that soldiers often resorted to bayonets and hammers to open them."

Somewhere along the way they changed to steel and were able to make it much thinner. It's also interesting to note that all of the development of canning and preserving technology was driven by the need to feed military forces in the field.

Jackie Ferrari could enlighten us as to what our "tin can" is called in Britain today.  Somehow I have the idea the British may speak of a "tin" of something or other.  Possibly more misleading than our "tin can" seeming to
suggest a container made of tin!

And I wonder what the Australians may call a "tin can?"
***************************************************************

From Ric

Ms. Ferrari is no longer on the forum but we have several members who reside in the mother country as well as a few down under.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:08:49 EDT
From:         Jeff
Subject:      The Colorado's search

I caught the ABC show last week and have a question.  I realize we will likely never know what the Navy pilot saw that he described as clear signs of habitation.  But do we know why or can you make a reasonable guess as to why the ships Captain did not investigate?  If he was out looking for Amelia and checking several islands, what WOULD have made him investigate, a neon sign?  And why after not finding anything else even remotely suggesting where they had ended up, didn't the Navy EVER go back and check Gardner?

*************************************************************

From Ric

The searchers from the USS Colorado were specifically looking for an airplane or airplane wreckage.  I think we can be sure that whatever they saw on the ground didn't look like an airplane nor did it look to them like Amelia and Fred.  We have to remember that this was a hastily organized (make that semi-organized) rescue effort.  Colorado was shanghaied for the search in the middle of its annual ROTC training cruise and had 196 college students plus four disgruntled university VIPs aboard.  The week-long voyage south from Honolulu had been rough.  Gardner was searched on the first flight launched once they reached the Phoenix Group.  Should Capt. Friedell have heaved to and spent a day checking out the "signs of recent habitation" reported by the aviators?  Or should he have continued to send the planes over the other islands where the Electra might be waiting on the beach, its crew nearly dead from thirst?

Once all of the Phoenix Islands had been searched from the air, Colorado was relieved by the carrier USS Lexington.  Friedell was under the impression that Lexington would continue to search the Phoenix Group, but the captain of the carrier decided to focus his search on the open ocean northwest of Howland. Thus by accident, rather than by negligence, what was acknowledged to be the most likely place never got thoroughly searched.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:18:24 EDT
From:         C. Spear
Subject:      Shoes and heels

I'm relatively new to TIGHAR, thus my question/comment may have been asked many times before:

After learning the shoe/boot heel found on Gardner Island was a size larger than AE's "regular" shoe size, has anyone considered the possibility she might have purchased her flight shoes/boots a size larger (as is often common practice) in order to wear heavy socks?  Was the interior temperature of the aircraft consistently cool/cold enough at her flying altitude for her to consider such?

Several months ago, when the famous shoe/boot maker G.H. Bass (of Wilton, ME), was closing down, a news report recounted how ADM Byrd and Charles Lindbergh both wore Bass ("flying"?) boots.  Was brand name recognition of such import in the 30s that AE might have also purchased/owned a pair?  And if so, might Bass have contracted to use Cat's Paw rubber heels?  Having worn Bass shoes years ago, I recall the heels were almost always leather, yet on shoes/boots to be worn in or on an aircraft, it would seem rubber would have been much safer (less prone to skid or slide) and less damaging to an aircraft's aluminum skin.  Again, I suppose a question oft asked before.

I found the ABC News Special to be informative... and to see video of the people and places of TIGHAR was wonderful.

CS
**************************************************************

From Ric

The size of the shoes AE wore during her last flight is not a matter of speculation.  We can measure them in the photograph.  The reason she wore shoes larger than her dress shoes is unknown but your comments certainly seem logical.

Cat's Paw heels were almost always replacement heels, as they are today.  The photos of AE's shoes seem to suggest that the heels had been recently replaced. We haven't tried to identify the manufacturer of the shoes she was wearing because it hasn't seemed worth the effort it would take , but I guess it might be possible.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:21:42 EDT
From:         Bill Zorn
Subject:      Re: Message from Strippel

I do wish Mister Strippel would at least give us the illusion that he is reading his messages before he sends them. I'm no master speller myself, but that last message was rather thick

****************************************************************

From Ric

I know that Dick has had some health problems and I try to fix up the spelling where I can, but I couldn't figure out that last one either.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:25:36 EDT
From:         Dustymiss
Subject:      Re: Semantic caution II

I am well rebuked -

I took "no indication of other siblings" in the "Noonan Jackpot" correspondence of 06-30-98 as fact even though it has not been substantiated either way. And "T-" meaning "total" from you as fact - not folklore -henceforth - while engaging in TIGHAR correspondence, I will mind my phraseology more closely and never prematurely factualize unsubstantiated statements, folklore, nor the like, again. :>

By the way - I read in a book called "The Versatiles" by Alfred E. Twomey and Arthur McClure - subtitled "A study of supporting character actors and actresses in the American motion Picture of 1930-1955",  that Eugene Pallette served in the Army Air Corps during WW I. But, perhaps you already knew that. Some pages were missing so, I don't know the date the book was published - but I do know it's out of print according to www.amazon.com.

Dustymiss

**************************************************************

From Ric

You're a good sport Dusty.

No, I didn't know that Pallette had served in the air corps.  That could explain his interest in aviation.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:44:49 EDT
From:         Tet
Subject:      Tin cans

As an expatriate Brit. the word most often used is "tin". as in "Let's open a tin of tuna".

However, beer comes in CANS and is called such.

Years ago we had a saying "Americans eat all the food they can, and what they can't, they can"

Love to Mother.

Tet
*************************************************************

From Ric

Okay.  Here's another one.  Is the term PRODUCE, meaning fresh fruits and vegetables, used in Australia and New Zealand?  More to the point, was it used that way in the mid-1930s?  We've had a couple of opinions but I'd like to hear more.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:54:46 EDT
From:         Chris Greenberg
Subject:      Re: Noonan Search

I've been helping out with the Noonan search here in Los Angeles and am finding a great deal of information;  hopefully some of it will be useful.

The LA County Central Library has a fantastic history department and I've been checking newspaper articles from 1936 and 1937 in the New York Times, The LA Times and even the London Times.  They all have articles specifically categorized by 'Amelia Earhart', 'Mrs. A E Putnam', and 'Aeronautics/World Flights', but nothing categorizing Noonan or George Putnam by themselves.

I made a list of about 35 articles that the library is digging up for me today on microfilm, and will hopefully be able to get back downtown sometime tomorrow.

Incidentally, I plan on checking the Hollywood Hall of Fame for information on our boy Eugene Pallette.  Will let you know.

I apologize that my portion of the Noonan search is taking a little longer than I expected, I'll try to get it done with all haste.

Blue skies-
Chris Greenberg-
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:03:48 EDT
From:         Michael Strickland
Subject:      Re: The Colorado's search

The pilot from the Colorado found 'signs of recent habitation,' but no plane. Yet  reports (as described on the ABC show last week) from later inhabitants of Gardner tell of a plane wreck on the reef.  If this wreck really existed, and was right there on the reef, how would the Colorado pilot miss it?  Doesn't this point toward the explanation that it couldn't have been AE's plane, since it wasn't there when the Colorado conducted its search?  Either the reports are false testimonials from islanders who want their Warholian 15 minutes and there was no plane, or there was a plane, and it wasn't AE's, because it didn't show up until later.  (Of course, there's the remote third possibility, that the pilot didn't see it, even though it was there, and the obvious and likely fourth possibility, that I am not nearly as familiar with all of this as you, and there is an explanation I haven't thought of.)

***************************************************************

From Ric

The fourth possibility strikes again.  According to the Funafuti anecdotes, there was some scattered wreckage (i.e. "a piece of a wing") on the reef, but the airplane wreckage was back in the dense vegetation along the shoreline. We know that there was a good surf running over the reef-flat during the aerial search, so scattered wreckage in the water could be virtually impossible to see.  Anything washed back into the beachfront vegetation would be so hard to see that only a kid could find it, which is exactly what seems to have happened.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 6 Jul 1998 14:28:23 EDT
From:         Tim
Subject:      Canton engine

I'm a newbie to the forum and these questions may have already been answered but........

I am very intrigued and excited about Bruce's story in the latest issue of TIGHAR Tracks.

1. How sure are we that the engine he recovered is the 550 hp P & W?  Does Bruce know enough about the differences to be able to identify it as such?
2. Given the corroded condition of the engine, will we be able to connect the engine to AE's Electra?  Where is the serial# located on the engine?  Was this # stamped on any other internal engine parts?

When is the return trip planned?

Tim

*************************************************************

From Ric

1. Bruce is a licensed aircraft mechanic.  At that time he was fresh out of school and had been working on the 550 hp P&W as part of his training.
2. Depends on how bad the corrosion is.  Earhart's engines had a data plate on the back side of the case.  The crankshaft and cams were also individually stamped with their own serial numbers.  Seems like some numbers should survive.

We're presently looking into a possible return to Kanton with a government agency.  I'll say more about that when I can.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:03:18 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Lack of posts

It's not you guys, it's us. Regular service will resume on July 8. Thanks for your patience.

TIGHAR
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:43:00 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Posting Again

Sorry for the delay in posting messages guys.  I wanted to get an overview of he search for Earhart written and mounted on our website in time for the anticipated increase in traffic generated by the Discovery Channel show last night.  I got it done and mounted, but I'm afraid that the forum suffered. My fault.  Anybody know where I can get myself cloned?

Anyway, I'm back on the job now.  You may want to go and take a look at what I put together as an overview.  Just go to the TIGHAR website at www.tighar.org and go to the Earhart Project.  The link to the overview is right there.  You can't miss it.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:44:00 EDT
From:         Russ Matthews
Subject:      Re: Message from Strippel

>KNOW THAT I"M NOT THE STUPID JERK RIC WOULD LIKE YOU TO THINK I AM!!!!!! 

You're doing a fine job all by yourself, Dick.

Love to Mother
Russ
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:50:48 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: tin can research

Yes, Vern we generally use the term "tin" over here.... tin of beans, tin of ripe bannanas even. The term tin is - I guess - a sort of synonym for "container" or "packet". You're right of course - the term is misleading.

What'd you generally call them over there ?

Simon
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:55:21 EDT
From:         Amanda Dunham
Subject:      Re: AE's shoe size

Ric wrote:

>The size of the shoes AE wore during her last flight is not a matter of
>speculation.  We can measure them in the photograph.  The reason she wore
>shoes larger than her dress shoes is unknown but your comments certainly seem
>logical.

Amelia wore larger shoes because she had trouble with her feet swelling *a lot* when she flew.  She was very self-conscious about her "thick ankles" - if you look at airfield photos of her where she's wearing skirts, you can spot the problem.  In some pictures her ankles appear much larger than in others.
Love to Mother,  Amanda
**************************************************************

From Ric

Sounds good Amanda.  Gimme some references - Amelia complaining about her feet swelling or about her thick ankles.  Contemporaneous written sources.  This could be the reply we've been looking for to the critics who maintain that AE had small feet.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:03:44 EDT
From:         Michael Strickland
Subject:      Re: The Colorado's search

Ric wrote:

> The fourth possibility strikes again.  According to the Funafuti anecdotes,
> there was some scattered wreckage (i.e. "a piece of a wing") on the reef, but
> the airplane wreckage was back in the dense vegetation along the shoreline.
> We know that there was a good surf running over the reef-flat during the
> aerial search, so scattered wreckage in the water could be virtually
> impossible to see.  Anything washed back into the beachfront vegetation would
> be so hard to see that only a kid could find it, which is exactly what seems
> to have happened.

Interesting, Ric... thanks for shedding light on this for me.  Is the reason for the wreckage being located in the vegetation theorized to be because the plane may have crashed in the surf, bounced off the reef and came to rest in the trees; or because it crashed on the reef, and was later washed ashore by the surf?  I know the ocean can move large objects like a plane wreck (especially after seeing the surf on the ABC special); however, it seems just as possible that the plane may have crashed into the vegetation after bouncing off the reef and leaving pieces (such as a wing) behind as it did so.

Are there any theories or anecdotal evidence that lead you to believe the plane crashed on the reef and was washed ashore versus crashing into the trees after landing on and impacting/bouncing off of the reef?  (Apologies if this topic has already been covered.)

***************************************************************

From Ric

Yes, we've covered it before (ad nauseum) but we have many new subscribers to the forum and good questions don't get less good just because they've been asked before.

We theorize that the airplane was landed successfully out on the reef-flat and then, after a couple of days, increased wave/surf action busted it up and threw the main body of wreckage into the dense shoreline vegetation.  We think that this scenario is more likely than a crash because:

1.  If any of the post-loss radio signals are genuine, the airplane must be intact for the first two days after it disappears.
2.  The discovery of a castaway's campsite and bones on a different part of the island from where the wreckage was reported seen suggests that the crew survived the arrival.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:06:25 EDT
From:         Jim Walrath
Subject:      Re: The Colorado's search

Responding to Michael Strickland's observations.  As I read through TIGHAR's research a hypothetical scene such as this seemed plausible.  According to TIGHAR Tracks V.13, #1/2, p.34, the overflight of Gardner Is. didn't take place until one week after the disappearance.  A message was reported by U. S. Navy Radio, Wailupe, Hawaii, July 4, 1937.  If an assumption is made that this transmission came from Gardner Is. and was Earhart or Noonan, the comments WON'T HOLD WITH US MUCH LONGER...ABOVE WATER...SHUT OFF would have significance.  This is only conjecture to paint a scenario but the first phrase could indicate that the plane was at or close to the water's edge and slipping/being washed to sea.  The second phrase indicates it is above water at the time.  The third is that the engine will be shut off, thus no power from the generator for transmissions.  Within a short time the plane could have been washed into the lagoon, before the search plane arrived five days later, and been difficult to see with a heavy surf, as indicated.  Also, if either of the aviator's were ill or injured, with limited water they could have a short survival time.  They would have sought shelter and been difficult to see by an airborne observer, with the possibility of either too ill, or already dead, to move out from the shelter to open areas upon hearing an airplane.

Jim Walrath
Love to Mother

***************************************************************

From Ric

Your proposed scenario pretty much agrees with ours.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:13:21 EDT
From:         Jim Tierney
Subject:      Noonan & Chicago

Yes it is a long way from Chicago to NO on the Big River--
But during the BIG WAR they built Submarines and Large Landing craft in Wis. and Mich. and floated them down the river without much difficulty....
Jim Tierney
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:19:26 EDT
From:         Gene Dangelo
Subject:      New song

Very nice, indeed! Now here's one for you, sung to the tune of "Let It Snow, let It Snow, Let it Snow! (With apologies to the authors!):

Oh, Amelia Earhart was flightful,
And our Forum's so insightful,
But one thing we'd all like to know...
Where'd she go? Where'd she go? Where'd she go?

Although some people underrate her
And good Fred, her navigator,
TIGHAR'S scholars quite soon may know,
Where'd she go? Where'd she go? Where'd she go?

With the evidence from each site
And the other good leads they have found,
They're assembling Amelia's plight:
Where'd her Electra go down?

Well, for now I'll stop all this croonin'
About Earhart and Fred Noonan,
But to Ric, I'll say, "Way to go!"
Soon we'll know, soon we'll know, soon we'll know!
-------------------------------------
Thanks for your indulgence, --Gene Dangelo, Composer-In-Residence :)
****************************************************************

From Ric

Outstanding!  That'll teach me to challenge a professional.

For Tom King,
We're obviously going to have to start a Songs of the Earhart Forum collection.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:28:33 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: The Colorado's search

>Friedell was under the impression that Lexington would continue to search the
>Phoenix Group, but the captain of the carrier decided to focus his search on the
>open ocean northwest of Howland.

I do not believe this allegation is correct, as there is no evidence I am aware of that supports this contention.  Can you substantiate this claim,
Ric?

***************************************************************

From Ric

Don't mince words Randy.  Just say what you mean. <G> I know that I got this impression from reading Friedell's report. Unfortunately, right now my copies of all the search reports are off being digitized for the Earhart Research CD-ROM project.  As soon as I get them back I'll dig into this point and either show you where I got the notion or confess my error and beg forgiveness.
Love to mother
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:41:21 EDT
From:         Jack
Subject:      Noonan

Some tid-bits for the Noonan puzzle.

Just received a note from an old friend named Del Freret that sailed with FN in 1930/31. FN sailed as mate for Delta Shipping Co., running out of New Orleans down to South America. My friend said FN was a good mate and he does not recall that he was "boozy."

In 1937,  Del was working for Eastern and saw that AE was to take off from MIA. He went out to see the take-off and found that his friend FN was navigator. He spoke to FN and AE but did not go near the airplane. I had asked Del other questions about the L-10 and they (EA) had one at the time. He indicated the trailing antenna was 80 feet long. Del ended up chief radio operator in Jackson, Ms. then went with Aeronautical Radio.

LTM,
jack

**************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Jack.  The more we learn about Captain Noonan the more I suspect that all this alcoholism stuff is pure folklore (not to say libel).  The maritime records recently obtained by Jerry Hamilton document a nautical career of steady advancement until, by 1931, Fred has a Master's license - steam and motor, any gross tonnage, any ocean and First Class Pilot on the Mississippi. Quite a boy was our Fred.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:47:55 EDT
From:         Pete
Subject:      Re: Earhart Bibliography

Some years ago, I wrote a novel about Amelia Earhart called The Earhart Mission.  It was published by Simon & Schuster in 1980.  In order to research the subject, I acquired an extensive library of books by and about her, including some interesting ones with inscriptions by AE.  If the list of books is of any interest I can compile it and make available to you or others any which you might otherwise have difficulty finding.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks.  I'd love to see it.  We try to stay on top of the list of books but new ones (and old ones) are always popping up.

Given your extensive collection, you may be able to help with a particular point of research.  We can't find a printed anecdote alleging that Noonan had a drinking problem that predates Fred Goerner's 1966 bestseller.  Can you?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:18:38 EDT
From:         S. Franklin
Subject:      Re: Tin can research

Come to think of it, wasn't there a point at which the ribs on the can indicated what was in it, to prevent confusion at the processing plant before the labels were affixed? Or is this apocryphal? I realize the label's incomplete, but the distance between ribs might be used, at the least, to determine the broad category of the food (assumption) that was in it. Also, archaeologists are fine, but keep in mind that there are also collectors of all kinds of strange things, including tin cans, out there.

As an aside, do you think he's using all caps to simulate the form of a telegram? Kind of trying to get us into the mood?

****************************************************************

From Ric

We've tried the collector route with no luck.  The striations (corrugation?), are an eighth of an inch apart and are three dimensional- that is - the paper actually is indented.

I've never heard that the corrugations on a can any significance beyond adding rigidity.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:22:55 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Stereotypes

Being Scotch-Irish from one side and Holland Dutch from the other, I think I have just a little license... And I can't resist although I suspect you've all heard it before.

It has been said that God invented whisky so the Irish wouldn't rule the world.

You can't argue with that, it worked!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:39:57 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Striations

>Yes.  There are striations on the label fragment.

So... What do they look like to you?  What do you think produced them? Depending on what the striations may look like... 

(From Ric:  I'll answer Vern's questions as we go.)

1. Are they visible on the front, or back, or on both sides?

Both sides

2. It appears you have part of the top edge of the label.  Are the striations parallel to that edge -- parallel to the line of lettering?

Yes.

3. Are the striations just poor printing?

No.

4. Are they smudged streaks produced by the way the label was rolled or wiped on?

No.

5. Are the striations actually sort of creases from being pressed into corrugations such as are on virtually all canned goods today?  The kind of creases you see if you soak the label off such a can.  But still visible after being buried for years?

You got it.

6. Or are they abrasion marks from jostling around with other things in a bag?  Abrasion would be greater where the corrugation ridges were.

No.

7. About 5/8 inch at each end of a can is without corrugations.  Does that fit what you see on the label fragment?

Yes.

8. Do the striations fit any of the corrugation patterns we see today ranging from close spaced (about 1/8 inch apart) to a few corrugations half an inch or more apart and a 2 lb, 7 oz coffee can that may have only three corrugations widely spaced.

The corrugations are 1/8 inch apart.

9. Are the striations just glue marks, or abrasion marks where stripes of glue added just a little thickness?

No, they are three dimensional indentations.

10. Are the striations the result of something done to the fragment after it was found?  Perhaps something associated with cleaning it up a bit and/or drying it.

No.

Hey!  Have fun in California and may it be a very productive weekend!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:48:00 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Re: Tin can research

We call "tin cans" the same as you lot on the other side of the Pacific...i.e. "tin cans" unless they contain beer which we call "tinnies" even if they are aluminium.  Seriously, "tin cans" over here are cans made of steel sandwiched between two layers of tin.  In the 30's we also referred to tin cans which contained petrol, these were the days before the "jerry can".

The term PRODUCE was used more often to describe fresh fruit, vegetables and even cereals in the 1930's than it is today.

Hope this helps.
Regards
David
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:24:58 EDT
From:         Mike
Subject:      Geopolitics

>A basic understanding of the geo/political situation in
> the Central Pacific in 1937 makes it clear that, if Earhart and Noonan did end
> up on Gardner, the notion that Japanese authorities of some description would
> venture more than a thousand miles into British territory to abduct her in
> peacetime is ludicrous.

I can't remember whose book it was, but didn't somebody show a single frame from a Navy film of Hull island during the search period which revealed what appeared to be a Japanese flag on the beach? (It was not visible when viewing the movie normally.)

Also, I'd have to say that it is more believable that they would pursue and abduct her if any of the theories about photographic missions were true. (I'm not trying to divert the group into conspiracy theory here, just making my point.)

The geopolitical situation was that Japan was trying to keep fortifications in the Mandates secret. And a thousand miles into a sparsely-habited island area is not like a thousand miles thru cities and farms.

Is there any hope of locating the bones that were shipped off? Does Amelia have any currently living close relatives so that DNA analysis would be useful?
****************************************************************

From Ric

You've been reading conspiracy books. The geopolitical situation in the Central Pacific was not as it has been represented by the various conspiracy authors.

Postwar examination of Japanese records has established that no fortifications had been built or were under construction in the mandated territories at the time of the Earhart disappearance.  Although official inspections were not permitted, Western tourists and visitors were not prohibited.  In short, there was nothing for Earhart to spy on and no need to stage an elaborate ruse to find out that nothing was there.

Describing the 1937 geopolitical situation in the British Gilbert & Ellice Islands Colony, which included the Phoenix Islands, in the context of Japanese interests is a bit like talking about slaves and plantations when describing pre-Civil War Maine.  What was really going on in that part of the Pacific was huge squabble between the U.S. and Great Britain over who owned various uninhabited islands which might be used as refueling points for the contemplated transpacific commercial air routes to New Zealand and Australia. British cruisers were running around putting up flags and placards on islands, declaring them to be the property of His Majesty, while the U.S. Dept of the Interior was sending token groups of employees on Coast Guard cutters to establish occupation of other islands.  Today we tend to see everything that happened in the Pacific in the '30s in the context of December 7, 1941.  It wasn't like that.

The supposed photo of a Japanese flag on Hull Island (which had a British administrator in residence at the time) appeared in Joe Klaas' classic 1970 fantasy "Amelia Earhart Lives!"  Seeing the flag in the flock of birds in the photo is like seeing an elephant in a cloud formation, and just as significant.

We're trying to relocate the bones, but no luck so far.  Amelia has living relatives in the female line which could be a source of mitochondrial DNA for comparison.  We're trying to find a similar source for Noonan.  That's why you see so much Noonan research on the forum.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:30:27 EDT
From:         Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Colorado search

I got the impression from a Colorado crew member interviewed on your show that the ship was in visual distance of Niku.

Is that true?
*************************************************************

From Ric

At her closest approach, Colorado came with something like nine miles - enough to make out the island through binoculars.  Having been there and done that, I can tell you that you don't see much.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:43:23 EDT
From:         Andrew
Subject:      Skull Scale

Hope this gets to you (by that I mean this message!)

I'm an Architect and spend all my time working with scales! One of the things I often have to do is establish the relative size of things when no actual scale for a given object is known. (Sites, Building plans, toilet stalls, etc.) I believe the same is true of your investigation into Dr. Hoodless's measurements. Here is a blurb about a possible way to do a preliminary check....

Re: Scull Scale

Had a thought about your requirement for exact measurements of adjacent objects in order to compare sculls of AE and FN. It seems to me that one could at least begin to see if this is at all worth it by first scaling each head to themselves and then to the doctor's measurements. By this I mean the following. Create a 'mug shot' set of either Amelia or Fred from the examples you have chosen by scaling the photos so that the profile equals the frontal shot or each. The photos of Amelia look better than those of Fred for this exercise due to the fact her profile shot has an upright attitude consistent with her frontal shot. Having established that her front and side views are of the same 'scale' to each other, one of the measurements given in the report of Dr. Hoodless could be superimposed on the image. For example, this could be the 'overall length' measurement. Her 'mug shot' can now be scaled to be correct to this measurement. Once this is achieved, the 'mugshot' is, in effect, correct to scale to this measurement. The other measurements can now be overlaid at the same scale and would indicate if things such as 'overall width' or 'height and breadth of the orbits' appear to fall where they should on her mug shot. If not, try the same exercise with Fred. If it is found that the 'relative' scale of the measurements is consistent with either Fred or Amelia, I would then pursue the attempt at 'precise' scale exercise of their heads via parker pens and wheel diameters or whatever, in order to further prove the possibility that one of their remains was indeed discovered in 1940.
Let me know if the above is clear and/or at all useful.

Regards,
Andrew Thorpe, 2135
***************************************************************

From Ric

Your description is both clear and useful. Thank you.  We did something very similar with the Wreck Photo.  We had nothing in the picture to establish scale, but we knew that IF the airplane is a Lockheed 10, the prop is nine feet long. (Just as we know that IF the skull measured by Hoodless was Fred's, it was 137 mm wide.)  We then scaled the engine cowling diameter and cowling opening based upon that assumption to see if we got the right dimensions for a Lockheed 10E.  We did.  That doesn't make the airplane in the photo a 10E but it means that its engine is proportionately correct for a 10E.  In theory, we might be able to use the same technique to find out whether the skull was proportionately correct for either Earhart or Noonan.  Of course, if we can get the scale nailed down through identifying and measuring known objects, so much the better.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:02:13 EDT
From:         Skip
Subject:      New member questions

I am new to this type of discussion group, so excuse me if I don't follow all the guidelines in discussing Amelia Earhart. From the very beginning when I first read "Last Flight," back in the 50s, I have been fascinated with the story of Amelia Earhart and what happened to her. I read and save everything relating to her disappearance. I found the article in the National Geographic, January 1998, and the latest ABC news program on your trip to Gardner Island fascinating. So naturally, I have some questions that have never been answered and some comments other statements or facts.

1. In Fred Goerner's Book, The Search for Amelia Earhart, he states that in the files in Washington, was the message "LAND IN SIGHT." This message was attributed to be the last message received from Amelia, but was never given to the public. Was this message in fact, a legitimate message from Amelia, or was it just another hoax? If this message was authentic, then it would add credence to your search.

2. At the time of Amelia's flight, the chart that they used to pinpoint Howland Island position wasn't accurate. It was supposedly off by many miles. This would basically account for them missing Howland. Do these charts still exist somewhere so that they could be compared to the present day charts which might show how far off course they were?

3. Why wasn't the direction finder on board the Itasca made known to Earhart?

Comments:
My personal feelings regarding the USS Colorado is that Roosevelt didn't want Earhart found until it had an opportunity to search islands that were associated with the Japanese. He wouldn't have had an excuse if we had located her. Same is true regarding Pearl Harbor. He knew that the Japanese were going to attack days before they did and did nothing to stop them. He wanted this country in the war and the only way Congress would have allowed it is by being attacked. This may be a conspiracy, but I don't think so.

I personally think you are on the right track. I believe that Earhart is on Gardner Island as it is the only island close enough for her to get to after missing Howland. I will be watching Discovery channel tonight as I wouldn't miss anything regarding her disappearance. I would love to be on the next expedition to Gardner Island as I am sure most fans of her would. 

Thanks,
Skip
**************************************************************

From Ric

1.  I would love to believe Goerner's  LAND IN SIGHT AHEAD story but it just doesn't make sense that archivists would alter a document.

2.  Actually, there were several different published locations for Howland Island, all within four or five miles of each other.  As far as I know, nobody can say for sure whether Earhart had the correct coordinates and it's highly debatable whether being off by five miles would make much difference in a 2,500 mile plus flight anyway.  every time somebody finds out some new little tidbit of information about the Earhart flight they want to make it the KEY TO THE MYSTERY.  We've uncovered dozens of new facts, and they're just more pieces that help complete the puzzle.

3. The direction finder aboard the Itasca WAS made known to Earhart.  It's the experimental (no, not secret) high-frequency DF set up on Howland that AE didn't seem to know about.  Nobody knows for sure why it wasn't mentioned to her, but because it was known that she would be sending transmissions anyway, there was no particular reason that she needed to know about it.

If Roosevelt didn't want Earhart found until the Navy had an opportunity to search islands that were associated with the Japanese, why didn't they search any islands associated with the Japanese?  I won't offer any opinion about what or when FDR knew about Pearl Harbor because that's not my knitting. Earhart is - and my opinion is that Roosevelt personally had absolutely nothing to do with the search for Amelia.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:01:08 EDT
From:         unknown
Subject:      Gardner Island search

Why can't we put our own volunteer/ Robinson Crusoe/  archeologist on the Gardner  for a year with appropriate provisions and tools, a metal detector, and web access?  In today's high tech world he could report to us daily and in a year of searching the island, get to know it so well that he would certainly solve the mystery! I'm sure we could find a volunteer, and he would accomplish much more than ever could be accomplished in the every -two -year hit and run searches to date.  I would think that ten thousand dollars would provision him/her for a year, and such an interesting and unique type search would be funded by a tv news organization hungry for a story. It should also be cheaper than funding a whole team for a short time.

We really need finish the  Island search as soon as possible and move on. (I will donate to this venture!)

**************************************************************

From Ric

On the off chance that you're serious, let's look at the practicality of your suggestion.

First we need to get the searcher to the island.  The means a $1,000 ticket to Fiji and a (minimum) $3,000/day charter of a boat big enough to take him 1,000 miles across open ocean to Gardner.  That'll take five days each way for a round trip ticket of $30,000.  Then of course they'll have to go back and get him in a year, or recover his body, so that's another 30K.  Now let's think about how a guy (or woman) is going to survive on Gardner for a year.  Gotta have water.  He can either build a huge cistern and hope it rains enough (some years it does, some years it doesn't), or it would be more reliable to have a desalinization system.  If he likes fish and has a launch he can probably survive with just a few cases of supplemental canned or preserved food. Medical attention is going to be a crap shoot.  All he needs to do is stumble and fall on the live coral and he'll have an instant life-threatening infection unless he treats it promptly and properly.

The bottom line is, I think that you probably need to increase your budget by a factor of ten.  The other problem is that anybody dumb enough to accept the job couldn't find anything anyway.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:36:12 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Ask ABC News

I just received this noble and ill-considered offer from the Howie Masters, the producer of the recently rebroadcast ABC News special about our work. I'll forward to him any messages you have (within reason) and post his replies.

Have at it gang.

***************************************************************

Ric-

Are there any responses, reviews, death threats arising from the last broadcast of the TIGHAR saga?  I would be more than happy to offer up answers for those inquiring souls. Or at least some slick non-answers if I can't figure out what it is they want to know.  If you care to, you can zap me some of the e-mail traffic and I will take it from there.

Regards to everyone,
Howie
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:49:37 EDT
From:         John Dowlan
Subject:      No AE TV Show in West Central Florida!

After waiting with great anticipation for the AE TV program, and although listed in the Tampa TV Sunday newspaper, it was not broadcast in the our area. A call to Time-Warner Cable advised it had been scratched by Discovery to make room for a Robin Leach comedy program. Perhaps they felt there was too much competition with the Baseball All-Star game in the same time slot.

Wonder if this happened in other parts of the US and when the next Discovery showing will be? Quite a letdown.

John Dowlan
***************************************************************

From Ric

I'm sorry John.  First the fires and now this.  It ain't fair.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 20:41:36 EDT
From:         LDJ
Subject:      Expedition

How could one get to be a part of the 99 expedition to Nikumaroro?

***************************************************************

From Ric

As you might imagine, this is a Frequently Asked Question.  The honest answer is,  while the expedition team is not 100 percent set in concrete (which I've been tempted to do more than once), we don't take anyone out there whom we haven't known and worked with for a loooong time.  Generally speaking, team members do not pay their own way nor are they big financial contributors to the project.  They're people who have demonstrated a long term commitment to TIGHAR and whom we know can work well under extreme conditions.  After five expeditions, we've distilled down a core group of volunteers who are knowledgeable about the project and about the island, and who function together better than most families.  I'd be nuts to mess with that.  At the same time, I can certainly understand anyone's desire to participate and I honestly wish there was a way to include more TIGHAR members in the field work.

It sounds corny to say that everyone who contributes to the research and helps fund the expedition is part of the team, but it's the truth.  Without the support of the TIGHAR membership there would be no expeditions and each of us on the boat is keenly aware that we represent all the other TIGHARs who put us there.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:43:24 EDT
From:         Wayne Wienecke
Subject:      Points and questions.

 I enjoyed the Discovery program, with the exception of what appears to be some poor statements, or misleading at best.  I believe that TIGHAR came out real well, except it was hard to really define what progress had been made on the island..  I saw a lot of high tech gear, but no explanation of what it was used for in this regard.

It was my belief that the batteries on the Itasca, regarding the ADF (installed on the Itasca) did not go dead, and that they were used during the major art of the trip. Do you have information in this regard.

The propellers on the "Hawaii Crash" certainly appear to be in non-take-off pitch.  Aircraft accidents can cause many disillusionments, and they could have been in the proper position, and when the crash occurred, lacking proper oil pressure could have been forced to the position that they were in after the accident.  By our standards AE may not have been  a perfect pilot, but I have to believe that  prop control was one of her basic maneuvers, due to the length of the trip, the need to hit it, and the lack of other land around Howland.

I also find it very difficult to believe that she ran out of gas prior to making Howland Island.  I would like to point out that I am neither a "flew to water, or flew to land"  proponent.  My knowledge of this at this time is very weak, but I hope to learn well through the various Forums now available.

Along with Mr. Willi, I agree that he missed the island, and the direction he turned cemented his fate.  His lack of ability to determine east-west position was obviously paramount in his decision.  I would like to believe that he turned  south and found Gardner Island.

If we are to believe that the radio messages that were sent after the downing of the aircraft, were in some-manner real, and not all bogus, it certainly seems to pinpoint Gardner Island.

I assume that the plastic piece, is still believed to have come from the L-10E, and the heel would have come from a females shoe, possibly belonging to AE.

A good point was mentioned on the Discovery channel show.  Do you currently have under consideration parking an archeological team on the island for a much longer period of time.  It doesn't seem very probable that a group of two-week searches are going to accomplish much in the terms of realistic material.  I state this because of the size of the Island, the underbrush that has occurred since 1937,  The need for a COMPLETE search of the Island, including sub vegetation areas,   the need to search not only the lagoon, but the ocean spaces, close in,  outside the island.   Have you done any cost studies regarding a long trip? How many people, how long, food, equipment etc., etc.

Three more questions, then I will go away.  Considering the closeness of Fred in the Chicago area, there are literally a very large number of NOONANS living in that area now.  I have even come up with a number of (F) Noonans in that area.  Has the probability been explored for possible relations, and obviously paper products from his pre-trip.

The University of Miami appears to have a large amount of Old Pan American Airways materials in their library.  These are available to someone who would be willing to sit through the undocumented mess and try to sort it out. Has anyone attempted to do this ?

I believe that Mr. Noonan had an alcohol problem.  But no to any degree that would cause him to find his job performance lacking.  Mr. Goerner indicated that he was the second choice as navigator, and that his "drinking problem" could be a factor.  And the fact that he "really almost found" Howland Island is a great certification that he was operating as AE had needed.

Another confusing thing to me is that if the airplane was flying in IFR conditions, and unable to see Howland Island, and the weather picture as given from the deckhands on the Itasca, was she truly went north of the island and thus into obliteration.  Also another question was when she was flying the157-327 leg, which one was she flying ?  We really have no way of knowing, do we.

I'm not sure that I can be of any help in your program, other than to join and lend support.  This is a mystery that well needs to be resolved.

I have a Medical Degree, and proactice as a family physician.  I also have a Masters in Aeronautical Engineering, and spent many years with NASA in both these positions.  So If I may be of any help, let me know.

I live in a suburb of Salt Lake City.  The Geneology department of the state is second to none.  If you have any needs along these lines let me know. It may come in handy for tracking decedents of FJN if they are discovered.

Regards
Dr. Wayne P. Wienecke, M.D.
***************************************************************

Thank you Doctor.  We'll look forward to receiving your membership.

I'll try to answer your questions:

>Do you currently have under consideration parking an archeological team on
>the island for a much longer period of time.

We have a full thirty days on the island scheduled for the 1999 expedition. Of course, double the time means double the money.  That's the tough part.  If we went with more people it would mean using a bigger ship.  We've explored that option also and the cost goes up exponentially.  We're satisfied that we have the most economical and efficient team size (about 15 people) and the best ship for the job (Nai'a, out of Fiji), and an adequate length of time on site (30 days).  Now we have to raise the money.

>I have even come up with a number of (F) Noonans in (the Chicago) area.  Has
>the probability been explored for possible relations, and obviously paper
>products from his pre-trip.

No, we have not started phoning Noonans in the Chicago area.  I'm not sure what you mean about paper products from his pre-trip.

>The University of Miami appears to have a large amount of Old Pan American
>Airways materials in their library.  These are available to someone who would
>be willing to sit through the undocumented mess and try to sort it out. Has
>anyone attempted to do this ? 

Yes.  Randy Jacobson spent some time there not long ago with mixed results. Some interesting information but no revelations.

>Another confusing thing to me is that if the airplane was flying in IFR
>conditions, and unable to see Howland Island, and the weather picture as given
>from the deckhands on the Itasca, was she truly went north of the island and
>thus into obliteration. 

The plane was not flying in IFR conditions.  The weather was good at Howland and Earhart's supposed report of "cloudy, overcast" conditions en route was added to the Itasca radio transcripts later.  It does not appear in the original log.

>Also another question was when she was flying the157-337 leg, which one was
>she flying ?  We really have no way of knowing, do we.

That's right.  We only know which direction made sense.

>I'm not sure that I can be of any help in your program, other than to join
>and lend support. 

There's no more important help than that.  Thank you.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:45:13 EDT
From:         Amanda Dunham
Subject:      AE's shoe size

Ric wrote:

>Sounds good Amanda.  Gimme some references - Amelia complaining about her feet
>swelling or about her thick ankles.  Contemporaneous written sources.  This
>could be the reply we've been looking for to the critics who maintain that AE
>had small feet.

Aaaaaaaaaaaack!  *All* my Earhart books are in storage!!!  Nuts.  She did have small feet, though.  They just got bigger on occasion.

Ok, I believe I spotted this factoid in Mary S. Lovell's book "The Sound of Wings."  I noted it in passing and then ever after couldn't help but notice swollen or unswollen ankles & feet in photos of Amelia.  Further proof I didn't look for.  So I *do* know I read it from a responsible source (irresponsible sources don't leave the bookstore in my possession), I just can't prove which responsible source it was.  This is the bad habit of a lapsed art historian:  remember details but not the documentation.  Sigh.

Ok, so I'll get another copy of Lovell and start digging for references. In the mean time look at the pictures.

Love to Mother & Dr. Scholl,
Amanda

PS:  I can't be the only one who travels wearing ugly Birkenstocks for this very reason?  I know, I know - it's not proof.  Pick, pick, pick...
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:51:55 EDT
From:         Paul Chattey
Subject:      Can research

A curator colleague suggests that the Lib of Cong has a collection of patented/copyrighted label designs on file, as opposed to paying patent attorneys to do expensive research.  If there is a chance that the banana label came from New Guinea (Ooo, look, canned bananas, I'll buy a tin!) there may also be a similar government collection there.  Also the number of labels would seem to be correspondingly fewer ...just like the number of TIGHARs there, I suspect.

Also, please tell Vern that I just crossed his path at the Banana Museum in Kent, Washington!

Paul
***************************************************************

From Ric

Lib of Cong ... Is that Libido of Kong or Library of Congress?  Have no fear about us  paying patent attorneys to do expensive research.  This is a grassroots movement.  The People will find Amelia.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:01:46 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Noonan, for Jack

Great tid-bits. Please contact me at jham@xxx.com. I would like to talk with your friend, Noonan's shipmate. Thanks. Blue skies, -jerry
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:07:09 EDT
From:         Clyde Miller
Subject:      Colorado search

The U.S. Navy Report 13 July 1937 by Wilhelm L. Friedell, captain USN Subject:  Resume Earhart Search by the USS Colorado (in Charge Search group)

The report concludes on page 12-13  (Verbatim) states the Colorado rendezvoused with the Lexington group on 12 July at 0700.  The Colorado detached from the search group and was directed to return to the West Coast in order to debark the Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps students and naval Reserve Officers. The Colorado steamed 1240 miles, and that her planes flew 21.2 hours each, 1908 miles each and that the Colorado with her planes covered within the radius of visibility an area of 25,490 square miles

As this is written (in the report) the Lexington Group is approaching the Search Area and will be able to conduct an extensive search over a large water area.  The Colorado has, however, searched the land area within a radius of 450 miles of Howland island and definitely ascertained that the Earhart Plane is not on land within the region unless on an unknown, uncharted and unsighted reef.
W.L. Friedell

Copy to:

    CINCUS
     COMBATFOR
     COMBATSHIPS


Hope this was the detail requested from the report

***************************************************************

From Ric

Well, that makes it pretty clear the Friedell was NOT under the impression that the Lex would continue to search the Phoenix Group.  I was wrong and I stand corrected.  Thank you Randy and thank you Clyde.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:17:38 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Colorado search

As an aside, when Capt. Friedell passed by Niku, and noticed that it did not appear to match the size and shape of the published charts available at that day, he had a series of bearings made to the northern and southern ends of the island to help pinpoint its location and length.  He then wrote a letter to the Hydrographic Office, explaining the situation.  Very shortly thereafter (1938-1939), the Hydrographic Office sent the Bushnell to re-survey the Phoenix Islands, including aerial photographs.  Whether the two surveys are related is anyone's guess, but circumstantially, it seems quite possible.
****************************************************************

From Ric

The Bushnell surveyed Gardner in November of 1939, although an aerial mosaic had been made by a floatplane launched from the small seaplane tender USS Pelican on April 30 of that year.  The Bushnell's survey of Gardner was part of a huge project to survey all the islands of the Phoenix Group plus lots of other islands.  She was running around the Central Pacific all that year.  I 'spect that Gardner would have been surveyed with or without Friedell's notation that the charts were wrong.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:48:24 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Re: Ask ABC News

I've forwarded these to Howie.
***********************************************************

From Michael Strickland

Ric-
You can tell Howie that I thought the ABC News Thursday Night show was a lot better than the show that was broadcast on Discovery.  The latter had more information (including footage of Noonan, which was absent from the former), but wandered all over the map.  From a narrative perspective, the ABC News program was much more interesting and compelling.  I did enjoy both, though!  (Is that non-committal enough for you?)
************************************************************

From Don Neumann

They spent too much time with other "theorists" (Elgen Long, Doris Rich, etc...) & Tom Crouch, instead of interviewing the members of your expedition team & allowing them to explain in greater detail the various items that have been uncovered on the island.  They also missed a great opportunity to interview, on camera,  the former Gardner island residents, now living in Funafuti.  Seems to me such testimony as they provided would have gone a long way toward lending greater credibility to their documentary, since these people actually lived on the island within the overall timeframe which TIGHAR is investigating & can describe what they observed at that time, as opposed to results of an investigation some 50-55 years after the fact!  I must agree, the camera work was superb, especially the underwater sequence in the lagoon & the breakers hitting the beach during the storm.  The island has a very deceptive beauty about it, however I seriously doubt  two very ill-prepared castaways, like Earhart & Noonan, could have survived very long (in spite of Noonan's supposed survival from being torpedoed in WWI), as they simply did not give the impression of being the "camp-out" type. (I also was disappointed that they did not at least i.d. on camera the other members of the expedition.)
Don Neumann
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:50:17 EDT
From:         Clyde Miller
Subject:      Colorado/Lexington search

The "Report Of Earhart Search"  U.S.S. Lexington dated July 1937 has the following information. On a Page marked Decision: "That this force will search the vicinity of Howland Island to a distance of 120 miles, using all available aircraft on the first day. Thereafter, extending the search to the Westward up to and including the Gilbert Islands.  Then should this search be negative, proceed to the point 290 miles north of Howland Island and Conduct such search as remaining fuel permit.....

In addition on page 7  subsection 19:
"On 15 July the Lexington encountered a current which gave a decided set to the Northwest.  Because of this and also the fact that the wind had been from south southeast force 3 to 4 since the beginning of the Lexington Group search, it was decided to extend the search to the northwestward on 16 July."

Hopefully, again this is the information you are looking for in the scan documents.

Clyde Miller
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:54:55 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Re: Posting again

No apology is required!  How you keep current on all the traffic on the forum is amazing, especially re-answering all the previously answered questions we forum members keep repeating!
Don Neumann

**************************************************************

From Ric

I just keep hoping that if I can answer people's questions to their satisfaction, and they see the kind of high quality thinking, reasoning, and research the members of TIGHAR are doing, they'll want to be a part of this effort and join this organization.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:56:33 EDT
From:         Robert Brown
Subject:      AE speech

I ran across this link on the History Channel's Web site.  You have to load the RealAudio Plugin, (free), and then go to http://www.historychannel.com/gspeech/speeches/980627gs.html to listen to a speech by Amelia regarding the future of aviation and women.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:58:07 EDT
From:         Bob Brown
Subject:      AE on A&E

August 1
9:00 AM - 10:00 AM
Biography for Kids
Amelia Earhart: Queen of the Air.
Whatever happened to Amelia Earhart? This profile of the legendary aviatrix and daredevil who vanished without a trace in 1937 looks at the mystery of her disappearance. [TV G]
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:59:56 EDT
From:         Michael Stricklan
Subject:      Re: Expedition

That must be an Incessantly Asked Question, not just a Frequently Asked Question. Lord knows I'd kill Dick Strippel to get on one of your expeditions (just kidding, Dick), but I'll be happy to simply do what little research I can, ask lots of repetitive but stimulating questions, and finally pay for my TIGHAR membership very soon.  I wish all of you great success on the next expedition -- and if you should find an opening for a cabin boy to work the galley and clean the heads, look no further!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:06:51 EDT
From:         Jack
Subject:      Re: Electra Maintenance Manual & info

I need an address or fax number to send the copies of the manual pages containing the skin thicknesses of the wings (top and bottom). I also copied the page relative to the tail wheel, which gives the tire size. I think the wheel size is a better item to use to scale with, as it would not be distorted as an inflated tire (tyre for those chaps across the pond), or a tire with a load on it.

Has anyone checked out the tide schedule at Niku in 1937. Based upon the aerial photographs it looked to me as if the would be a great sand runway at low tide. However when the tide came in an airplane with empty fuel tanks would be buoyant for awhile and get bounced around like a cork. As the aircraft gradually sank, while being pulled in and out over the reef. it would no doubt get shredded by the coral.

That's my theory anyway. Keep in mind I am an FNG.
LTM
P.S. I never saw the "S" word show either. Further, I enjoyed the two shows immensely. Just seeing those waves on TV gave me a pucker factor of 10. No thanks.
Jack J.
*************************************************************

From Ric

Our mailing address is:
TIGHAR
2812 Fawkes Drive
Wilmington, DE  19808

Fax number is (302) 994-7945

There are no tide schedules for Niku.  Hindcasting has been done but I'm not comfortable that we can get accurate results with the little data we have. All you have to be off is six hours in 61 years and you have a 100 percent difference in the tidal state.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 08:32:54 EDT
From:         Wayne Weinecke
Subject:      IFR conditions?

 I believe that I may be following a report in Fred Goerner's book, that indicated an officer of the Itasca, standing on the deck, had noticed heavy cloud cover to the north of the ship. This coupled with the report of uncoupled weather that I thought came from the aircraft, would indicate that she was in fact probably north of the ship.

Sorry for this assumption.
***************************************************************

From Ric

You're correct, and Goerner was correct, in that that's what the Itasca's captain later reported.  It was only upon comparing the original radio logs with the captain's later transcripts that we noticed that the "overcast" was an embellishment.  In a 1973 interview with Elgen Long, the Itasca's chief radioman, Leo G. Bellarts, maintained that Earhart never said any such thing and that those who later said she did could not have heard her say it because he (Bellarts) was the only one wearing headphones at the time and Earhart's transmissions had not yet been put on the speaker.

Whether or not there were "heavy clouds to the northwest" is more difficult to determine.  The Itasca's deck log for that morning shows that conditions at Howland at the time of Earhart's anticipated arrival were "blue sky with detached clouds", the clouds were "cumulus" in type, three tenths of the sky was obscured by cloud, visibility was more than 20 miles, the wind was light out of the East.  Barometric pressure was 29.88.  At 10:40 a.m. the Itasca steamed off in search of Amelia toward the weather area later described by the captain, but the deck log for the rest of the day never reports more than six tenths (and usually more like 4 and 5 tenths) cloud cover until 7 p.m. that night.  Visibility remained 20 miles plus throughout the day and the pressure never dropped below 29.78.

If there was an area of bad weather northwest of Howland, it seems to have cleared up by the time Itasca got there.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 08:52:05 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Eugene Pallette

For those interested in chasing Eugene Pallette further, here are some possible sources assembled by Team Member Kris Tague.

AUTHOR: Twomey, Alfred E.
TITLE: The versatiles : a study of supporting character actors and actresses in the American motion picture, 1930-1955 / by Alfred E. Twomey and Arthur F. McClure.
PUBLISHED: New York : Castle Books, c1969.
PHYSICAL DETAILS: 304 p. : ports ; 26 cm.
OTHER AUTHORS: McClure, Arthur F., joint author.
SUBJECTS: Motion picture actors and actresses--United States--Biography.
                    Motion picture actors and actresses--United States--Portraits.
                    Character actors and actresses--United States--Biography.
                    Character actors and actresses--United States--Portraits.
LC CALL NUMBER: PN1998.A2 T9 1969b
DDC: 791.43/028/0922 B
LCCN: 79-105985 //r98
 # CODE    LOCATION
1 AZFG    Flagstaff-Coconino County Public Library
2 CLPG    Santa Clara Public Library
3 DCGG    Georgetown University
4 DCLC    Library of Congress
5 GAEG    Emory University
6 MAHG    Harvard University Library
7 NYCG    Columbia University Libraries
8 NYMX    Museum of Modern Art

AUTHOR: McClure, Arthur F.
TITLE: More character people / by Arthur F. McClure, Alfred E. Twomey, Ken D. Jones.
EDITION: 1st ed.
PUBLISHED: Secaucus, N.J. : Citadel Press, c1984.
PHYSICAL DETAILS: 239 p. : ill. ; 29 cm.
OTHER AUTHORS: Twomey, Alfred E. Jones, Ken D.
OTHER ENTRIES: Twomey, Alfred E. Versatiles.
SUBJECTS: Motion picture actors and actresses--Biography--Dictionaries.
                    Motion picture actors and actresses--Portraits.
NOTES: Rev. ed. of: The versatiles / by Alfred E. Twomey and Arthur F. McClure. 1969.
LC CALL NUMBER: PN1998.A2 M2525 1984
DDC: 791.43/028/0922 B
LCCN: 84-219109
ISBN: 0-8065-0876-0 : $19.95
# CODE    LOCATION
1 AZPG    Pima Community College District
2 CACG    Alameda County Library
3 CLAG    Los Angeles Public Library
4 CSCW    University of Southern California
5 CTYG    Yale University Library
6 CUDG    University of California, Davis
7 DCLC    Library of Congress
8 FLFG    Florida State University
9 GAEG    Emory University
10 HKCG    Urban Council of Public Libraries (Hong Kong)
11 IAUG    University of Iowa Libraries
12 MAHG    Harvard University Library
13 NHDG    Dartmouth College Library
14 NJRG    Rutgers University Libraries
15 NYPG    The New York Public Library
16 NYUG    New York University
17 OKUG    University of Oklahoma Libraries
18 PASG    Pennsylvania State University
19 UTBG    Brigham Young University
20 WAWG    Western Library Network
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:09:41 EDT
From:         Ken Knapp
Subject:      Some info and an anecdote.

I'm on vacation this week, and finally got around to doing something I'd had on my agenda for a while. I printed out a copy of the wreck photo and the supporting info from the TIGHAR web page and took it to a friend for his opinion on it. My friend, Chet, is an interesting character. He's about 75 years old and has been flying since he was around 13. He built and used to own the local airport (N30 Cherry Ridge), and probably taught 75% of the pilots around here how to fly. He's retired now, but is still very active in flying, giving free dual instruction to students and sitting in his recliner in his house, where he has a view of the 17 and 35 runways, and giving his critiques to students practicing take offs and landings.

Anyway, I took the info to him and asked him for his opinion on it. He looked it over quickly, and expressed the opinion that, "she went down somewhere in the drink." BUT, I know Chet, and he'll look it over more closely later on, and then we'll get his considered opinion on the wreckage. If anyone can look at that photo and id a wreck I'd bet my money that he can.

He also related an interesting story to me that I'd like to share. He asked me if he ever showed me the photo of him wearing AE's parachute. Seems that years ago, he bought a parachute since he was doing aerobatics in a biplane, (for $25) and when he got it home, he discovered that parachutes had logbooks. He looked at the logbook and the last entry in it was made by Amelia Earhart. My reaction was, "WOW! What did you do with it???". He said he sold it to a friend and isn't sure where it is now.

Anyway, don't know how appropriate this all is to the forum, but I thought it was interesting.

Ken Knapp

***************************************************************

From Ric

When Chet expressed the opinion that "she went down somewhere in the drink." was the "she" he was referring to the airplane in the photo or Amelia Earhart?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:18:04 EDT
From:         Dick Strippel
Subject:      Lae takeoff (Strippel)

>you said AE lost the voice antenna at take off from Lae. FACT 

WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE FOR THIS????????????????????????

IS??????????????????????????????????/-- DICK

***************************************************************

From Ric

Your ? key is stickin' a bit there Dick.  A forensic examination of the film of the Lae takeoff by an independent laboratory (Photek, Inc. of Hood River, Oregon) has concluded that the belly wire antenna (whatever its purpose) appears to have been lost, probably due to an inadvertent ground strike by the aftmost mast, sometime between when the airplane taxis past the camera on its way out to the end of the runway and when it comes back by on the actual takeoff.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:25:24 EDT
From:         Mike
Subject:      Howland in 1935, guano

After your wonderfully mild rebuke I decided to read up a little on the geopolitical situation for myself... I found one paragraph too good not to pass on.

(from "The Great Guano Rush", Jimmy M. Skaggs, 1994)

"The British did not object when on October 14, 1935, the U.S. State Department announced that it was annexing Baker, Howland, and Jarvis. Chagrined, two days later American diplomats amended their announcement to say that no annexation was necessary since the United States already owned those places by authority of the Guano Act; the islands had merely been reclaimed by Washington. Even so, to reinforce American assertions of sovereignty over these places, the Commerce department's Bureau of Air Commerce recruited Hawaiian schoolboys to reside on each of the atolls - lest the British try to reoccupy them before the matter was forever settled."

Obviously spying on the Japanese was deferred to more important pursuits - and enticing school children to reside in a potential war zone seems unlikely, even for bureaucrats of this caliber. (And these must have been some pretty scary children if they were considered a match for the British...)

BTW, the book also notes that runway construction on Canton did not begin until 1938, thereby spoiling at least one conspiracy theory that Amelia was actually headed there.

***************************************************************

From Ric

The "schoolboys" were young Hawaiian/Chinese men who couldn't believe that the government was going to pay them a decent wage to hang out on an island.

The "runway" on Canton in 1938 was an area marked out in the lagoon for Pan Am flying boats.  The hard surface runway wasn't built until 1941.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:31:17 EDT
From:         Steve Franklin
Subject:      Time and Tide

It is my understanding that tides are a function of the positions of the sun and moon. These are astronomical factors and have been observed accurately for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. It would simply be necessary to find identical solar and lunar positions for the same time of year, something that repeats on a regular basis, the shortest of which period is 19 years, the so-called Metonic cycle used to align solar and lunar years, as in, for instance, the Hebrew luni-solar calendar. There is a slightly less accurate repetition of eight years that was known to the Sumerians. As far as I can see, it really has nothing to do with "hindcasting."

Your contention appears to be a blatant misuse of statistics. Unless you're proposing some kind of Velikovskian catastrophic realignment of the earth's axis that led to the crash. Talk about far out theories!

Now the state of the tides when AE got there, that's another story! And that all depends upon fuel onboard, fuel consumption, how much fuel was left when she landed, and a host of other factors too numerous to name. Maybe that is what you really meant. The latter would cause all sorts of difficulties and far outweighs any question of retro-predictive inaccuracy.

Steve Franklin

**************************************************************

From Ric

I can assure you that I am not proposing a Velikovskian catastrophic realignment of the earth's axis.  I was raised Presbyterian.

If there is no retro-predictive inaccuracy problem in establishing what the tidal state was at Nikumaroro at any given time in the past, and if it all has nothing to do with hindcasting, I recommend that you make this revelation known to both NOAA and the U.S. Navy, both of whom offered opinions on this question.

Or perhaps you would care to do the simple calculation yourself.  Niku is at 4 degrees 40 minutes South Latitude, 174 degrees 32 minutes West Longitude.  The date was July 2, 1937.  The exact time of day, of course, is not known but 11:30 a.m. would be in the ballpark.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:40:39 EDT
From:         Ken Knapp
Subject:      Re: Some info and an anecdote.

Chet was referring to Amelia and the Electra. He formed his opinions on the subject 60 years ago. He'll give an objective opinion on the photo, I'm sure. I left all the info with him and he may well be examining that picture right now.

Ken
****************************************************************

From Ric

Opinions are always great to have.  If his agrees with mine, he's a genius. If it doesn't, it's just another opinion.  Anyway, it should be fun to see what he says.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:49:59 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Label fragment: Striations

Sorry about laying a questionnaire on you!  I wanted to cover every possibility I could think of that might have accounted for the "striations." Now we know exactly what we're dealing with... a pattern of can corrugations embossed in the paper of the label.  The pattern is still visible after being buried in soil of Niku for years. I believe you've speculated that being in the immediate area of the campfire may have served to protect the small fragment of paper from microbial attack.  Maybe so, it seems they devour just about everything else organic, such as leather gloves!

Now my question is:  Do the striations date the label?

Based on some impromptu grocery store research of current cans on the shelves, I think we can be reasonably confident of a few things:

The label is from a can, a round "tin" can.

It is probably from a can not larger then the "standard" size can, that used to be one pound -- now they're marked short about an ounce but look like the 16 ounce cans. One is tempted to say, "rip-off" but they may also be trying to protect themselves from the Federal government in case someone finds a few cans to be a fraction of an ounce short of 16 ounces.

Larger cans typically have more coarse corrugations -- a little more then 1/8 inch between ridges.  The large (about 48 oz) juice cans typically have corrugations that are definitely wider spaced.  Some intermediate size cans may have about 1/8 inch corrugations but there will be bands that are not corrugated.

The label fragment may be large enough to show whether or not there is a band of about three corrugations with a uncorrugated band, then more corrugations.

Examination of a few not really very old cans, I see evidence of an interesting evolution in pressing corrugations into cans.  On the basis of what I've seen at this point, I suspect the 1/8 inch spaced corrugations did not appear until the welded seam came into use.  I have examples of grooves rolled in right across the old kind of hooked-crimped-soldered seam -- brute-force technology!  These groves are spaced at least 1/2 inch apart.

I have an interesting 3 pound Folger's coffee can.  It's not very old but old enough that it says:  "Net Wt. 3 pounds" instead of the current 2 pounds, 7 ounces.  The edges that will come together to form the seam have been cut in rather complicated fashion.  This makes possible a mostly hooked-crimped-soldered seam but leaves places that are only two thicknesses rather than four thicknesses where the grooves will be rolled in.  There are the usual three grooves with slightly ridged edged spaced about 1-1/2 inches apart.

***************************************************************

From Ric

For what it's worth, we're presently recruiting the help of some Industrial Archeology types who deal with this sort of puzzle all the time (albeit, not necessarily in such a romantic context).  While the evidence of corrugations is interesting, the markings on the label itself are, I suspect, our best route to a positive ID.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 9 Jul 1998 23:00:41 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Wild Weekend

Although incoming messages will be posted daily, I won't be able to answer questions until Monday.  On Friday, Saturday and Sunday I'll be in San Francisco at the Earhart Project Team Meeting and Conference.  So, because TIGHAR can't afford a laptop, you guys get to run wild for the weekend.  I'll catch up with you when I get back and tell you what we figured out (if anything) in San Francisco.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:55:26 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      The Amelia Earhart Search Conference

Richard E. Gillespie wrote:

>... I'll be in San
> Francisco at the Earhart Project Team Meeting and Conference

Tell us what to expect at this conference.  Will it be different subjects each day, or the same?
 Does the cost cover both days?  Fill us in a little as to what to expect.

Thanks

Don
********************

Too late, Don, Ric left very early this morning and didn't see your note.

The cost covers both days, and so far as I know, there is no set "program" as such; the idea is to work through the research and solicit ideas and knowledge.

Yes, you can register and pay at the door. It's being held at the Hiller Museum in San Carlos. Ric will be thrilled to see you (that's the inclusive "you", not the specific "you").

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:04:56 EDT
From:         Steve Franklin
Subject:      Re: Time and Tide

Argumentum ad Hominem? This is not exactly what I'd expect from someone who claims to be running a scientific exploration of an historical event. My point was that the tidal state at a given time of year at a particular phase of the moon is subject to direct observation. You don't have to calculate it. You seem to have a fixation on contemporaneous documentation. The fact is that some things don't change. They are the same today as they were sixty years ago. The tides at a particular place on the earth are not subject to change, except in a specifically cyclical manner. The reference to Velikovsky was meant as irony, though it points up what your fixation on contemporaneous documentation in this particular case really implies, which is the possibility that something really has changed. As for the Navy, etc., I strongly suspect that what you got from the authorities was not a retrocalculation in the true sense of the word, as you seem to perceive it, but a determination of the positions of the relevant celestial bodies, which, again, have been known to extreme accuracy since Kepler first did the observations that led to Copernicus' determination that the planets revolve around the sun. When was that? Sometime before 1937 I would think (irony). Or, I am driven to wonder by your reaction, is there some discrepancy between the tidal state as determined by the cited authorities and your theory of the disappearance of Amelia Earhart? I'm sorry, but you really don't have a lot of wiggle room here. There are observations of the positions of the sun, moon, and planets on cuneiform tablets dug from the ruins of the second millennium BC. This is what eventually sank Velikovsky. In all seriousness, you start monkeying with celestial mechanics, you might as well blame the disappearance on flying saucers: You'll never get it published in Nature.

As for 11:30 AM, what did the Greek logicians call that? Something about assuming your conclusion?

**********************************************************

Randy? Are you out there? Care to address this in Ric's absence? Any other oceanographer types?

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:05:54 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Can research

Paul:

>Also, please tell Vern that I just crossed his path at the Banana
>Museum in Kent, Washington!

So... Did you meet Anna Banana?  I don't suppose the museum has acquired a can of "Ripe Banana."
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:06:36 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Can label not Beechnut

Barbara M.

If you have a good opportunity, you might see what the Historian at Beechnut might be able to tell us about when the corrugated cans first appeared particularly the close spaced (1/8 inch) corrugations.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:13:45 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: New member questions

Ah, Ric, you still don't get it, do you? Amelia was Eleanor Roosevelt's illegitimate daughter! Haven't you ever noticed the resemblance? When Amelia threatened to spill the beans and ruin FDR's chances for a 3rd term, FDR told the Navy "lose her in the deepest part of the Pacific".

And of course FDR knew all about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and of course he kept quiet about it, knowing that the Navy he loved (almost as much as being President) would be blasted to smithereens.

Yup, makes perfect sense to me... and I'm Amelia and Fred's love child. [hmmm... that would make me a grandchild of Eleanor Roosevelt. This is getting weirder by the minute...]

On a more serious note, I got to thinking about Bob Ballard and all the help he got from the Navy when searching for the Titanic.

It occurred to me, if one is looking for a concentrated mass of metal in an area where there shouldn't be any (e.g. the lagoon on Niku) one might benefit from an airborne magnetic anomaly detector, such as that employed on P-3 Orion aircraft.

Do you know anyone in the Navy who might be able to arrange for a P-3 to make a few passes over Niku on the way to/from somewhere else?

It doesn't even have to be the U.S. Navy. Several Pacific rim countries operate the P-3. Maybe the Aussies would like to help. Lockheed most likely has one of their own, as well. (I'd think the U.S. Navy would be willing, in order to make amends for botching the first search)

Just a thought....

Tom
[anxiously awaiting that cool TIGHAR number to appear behind my name]

******************************************

Tom, haven't received your membership yet, the check must be in the mail <G>?

Re: P-3s and such. Unfortunately, the Electra, like most aircraft, presents a very poor magnetic target being made mostly of aluminum. The steel in the engines is the only significant ferrous mass present--not much, IOW. Big difference between that and finding a very large ship which is made primarily of steel.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:18:31 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: Gardner Island search

Ric wrote:

>All he needs to do is stumble
>and fall on the live coral and he'll have an instant life-threatening
>infection unless he treats it promptly and properly.

Not to mention being eaten alive, one large piece at a time, by the coconut crabs...

but the discussion begs the question, how did the Gilbertese survive on the island as long as they did? How did they collect drinking water? One assumes they grew their own food, what kind and how did they grow it? Or were they on a strict seafood diet? They even raised apparently healthy children on the island. How did they deal with illness and infection? (not to mention the loss of the odd physical appendage from time to time...)

The above may sound snide or sarcastic, but it's not intended that way. I'm really curious, how did the former residents of Niku survive?

Tom
*******************************
Drinking water was and still is collected in large concrete block cisterns (one still exists on the island). Taro and coconut are, of course, a staple in the Pacific island diet; also fish. They were able to grow the foods they were accustomed to. There was a native medical practitioner there a good bit of the time, and while not a degreed doctor he had a lot of training--years of it--in Fiji.

And to be strictly honest, life expectancy was not, and is not, that hot among the I-Kiribati. Dentistry is a problem, eye care can be a problem, various chronic illnesses are difficult to manage--even on Tarawa.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:20:36 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: Wild weekend

Ric wrote:

>So, because
>TIGHAR can't afford a laptop, you guys get to run wild for the weekend.

Ooooh, the cat will be away, folks! What shall we talk about?
Amelia and Fred's love life?
Amelia and G.P.'s love life?
G.P. and Fred's love life?
Ric's love life?

The possibilities are endless!

Tom
*****************************

Troublemaker.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:21:55 EDT
From:         Dan Postellon
Subject:      Noonan the Navigator, rolling down the river (Chicago to New Orleans)

I finally did some checking.  The official name of the canal connecting Chicago with the Mississippi is the Illinois Waterway.  Foe anyone who is interested, they have a good website, with a map, at:
http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/navdata/nav-prim.htm
Dan Postellon

***********************

Thanks, Dan.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 10 Jul 1998 10:24:22 EDT
From:         Al Hall
Subject:      Control of the Phoenix Islands

Some comment has been made about joint control of the Phoenix Islands by the British & USA, but I vaguely remember the French were also involved and seeing a WW2 map indicating joint control by the three nations.

Also, when I was there on Canton in 1946 I became well acquainted with several of the natives (Gilbertese).  I recently located and old travel log that had been signed by several of them who were bilingual.  I remember one of them thought he was living on Sidney!  Don't think many of them had much knowledge of Geography.  I still have the autographed page signed by " Nangiamea on Sidney" and dated in 1946.  He wanted to come to the USA after the war and see what this great country was like. Doubt he ever made it.

Al Hall #2143
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:07:20 EDT
From:         Tom Cook
Subject:      Cat's away!

How about Monica Lewinsky's love life?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:09:41 EDT
From:         Patricia Young
Subject:      Amelia's shoe size

Hi Pat - If memory serves, you have a medical background, what's the skinny on Amelia's ankle swellings?  I have the same problems - never been diagnosed, but it doesn't go away.  Getting enough rest, being in air conditioning all help it tremendously.  Like Amelia, I am very conscious of it.

Every year, my students notice it after we've looked at various pictures of AE. What makes it very apparent is, as someone commented in the forum, when she wears skirts or dresses.  Her ankles are in direct opposition to her hands and fingers that are extremely thin.  It's difficult to miss the contrast.

I, too, wear a larger shoe size in length and width, so that my feet and ankles are more comfortable.  Humid conditions just are the worst.  Also, I have very small hands that are never affected by whatever causes my ankles to swell.

Patricia L. Young

********************************

Sorry, I don't have a medical background at all. Perhaps someone else does? Anyway, I do know this is a fairly common phenomenon.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:12:51 EDT
From:         Sam Ginder
Subject:      Re: Time and Tide

I can't decide whether Steve Franklin is trying to show us how smart he is or whether he's being contentious for the sheer unadulterated hell of it. He is though coming across as argumentative, insulting, and arrogant as hell. If he'd change his tone of voice, he might have something of importance to say. NEXT THING, HE'LL START SHOUTING IN UPPER CAPS.

**************************

Oh no!! Not another Strippel!!!  ;-)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:31:05 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Time and Tides

All right, it's time to lay the tide issues to rest, at least for a while. Any local mariner can tell you that although the phases of the tides are reasonably predictable, the amplitudes are not, due to variations in topography and water circulation. Back in 1992, I asked the Sea Level Center at the University of Hawaii for tidal information.  Tidal information was calculated for Canton Island (2o49'S, 171o43'W) based upon a yearly record obtained at Canton during 1949/1950.  (Note, there was no tidal measurements made at Gardner or Nikumaroro Island, and Canton was the closest station and is a reasonable substitute)  Frequency analysis of 68 tidal components were calculated (amplitude and phase), nodal corrections were applied, and extrapolated backwards in time to July, 1937.  Tidal extrapolations are usually only good to about 10 years (G. Mitchum, pers. comm., 1992), but an estimate of the calculations can be computed by analysis of 1986-1987 records and extrapolating back to 1949-1950 and comparing the records.  The results indicate a reasonable fit to the data.  Without tidal records on Nikumaroro or Canton during 1937, this method of extrapolation is considered the best possible method to estimate tides (G. Mitchum, B. Parker, pers. comm., 1992).  The mean sea level was 1.3719 meters, and maximum possible tide is 2.289924 m; the minimum possible tide is 0.453835 m (calculated by adding and subtracting all tidal components, regardless of phase).  The maximum predicted tide during July, 1937 is at 1827 GMT on July 8 at 1.934 m; the minimum predicted tide was at 1150 GMT on July 8 at 0.800 m.

To predict what the tides would be at Nikumaroro would require information regarding the propagation speeds of all tidal components from Canton to Nikumaroro.  Since the two islands are only 200 miles apart, it is a reasonable assumption to dismiss these differences.  Tidal amplitudes also vary with distance, so it may only be proper to infer gross general trends for Nikumaroro.  Thus, it is safe to say that on July 8, the day before the Navy overflight, the tidal range was at a maximum, about 1.1 m. Earhart has been estimated to land on Nikumaroro at 11 a.m. local time on July 2 (approx. 2300 GMT July 2, 1937).  At Canton, the tide is estimated to be 1.429 m, about 2 hours before high tide of 1.690 m.  With such a high tide, it is likely that most of the reef flat at Nikumaroro was submerged, and Earhart may have tried to ditch the plane in the lagoon.  On July 9, 1937, Lt. John O. Lambrecht and others flew over McKean, Nikumaroro, and Carondelet Reef, leaving the USS Colorado at 0700 (local), and returning at 1045 (local; Lt. Short's letter). Based upon this information, it is likely that the overflight of Nikumaroro occurred at approximately 0900 local (2100 GMT), at which time the tide was 1.664 m, just after high tide.

A picture taken during this flight confirms the high tide.

Two attempts were made by the Colorado pilots to locate Winslow Reef: on July 7 at about 1530 local (0330 GMT on July 8), and on July 8 at about 0800 local (2000 GMT).  On July 8 at 0330 GMT, the tide was between 1.364 and 1.569 m, just before high tide.  At 2000 GMT, the tide was 1.913 m, just after high tide.  The pilot reports of an inability to sight Winslow Reef is consistent with available tidal records, this being the period of maximum high tides.  If this reef is only visible during low tide, then at high tides the reef would be completely covered in water, and little if any breaking water would be observed.  Without further information as to the location and height of this reef, this conclusion is largely speculative.

**************************************

Randy, many thanks. This is very clear. Steve, Randy is an oceanographer at ONR. NOAA and NASA also did work for us on this issue. The bottom line is that tidal hindcasting is not merely a matter of simple calculation and is not very accurate, but can give us some general ideas as to the state of the tides. That information must be checked, if possible, against contemporaneous accounts--which are not always available. If you would like further information on this subject and on the methods used to calculate the tides, I am sure Randy will oblige.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, your remark -- <<You seem to have a fixation on contemporaneous documentation.>>-- sounds like the insult hurled at us by the producer at NBC who complained that we were "biased towards the facts." We plead guilty.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:44:00 EDT
From:         Jack Joyce
Subject:      Re: L10 Manual copies

I mailed you the copies of the manual pages today. They ought to be there when you return from CA.

To the forum contributors who are the tidal experts. I raised the tide issue for the following reasons: If it was low tide when AE and FN arrived over Niku, then a wheels down landing on the sand is possible. Further, with the aircraft setting on its wheels, its engine could be run to generate electricity, and the radio could be used to transmit the signals that were triangulated by Pan Am and the Navy. If it was high tide, then a wheels up "ditching" is more likely. If the aircraft was landed by ditching, then the engines could not be run after the landing, and the battery could only be used for a very short time, i.e. until it got salt water in it.

Anyway, the tide question is only relevant to adding to the possibility of a landing at Niku. For right now all we have is a case of circumstantial evidence. Ergo, all of the "circumstances" are relevant.  The wide variety of expertise in this forum group is indeed fantastic. I look forward to learning more from all of you. Thank you one and all.

LTM -Ric, enjoy the conference and keep your wings level.

*******************************

The tidal issues, and what AE would or would not have done about choosing a landing site and putting wheels down or not, is pretty complex. In any event there is some evidence to suggest that AE would not have willingly contemplated landing in water. Besides the reef-flat which, at low tide, is bare hard coral, not sand, there were (from photographs) open areas on the island which would/could have afforded a safe landing site without getting one's toes wet.--Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:45:22 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Re: shoe sizes

I have a Singaporean fiancee and she complains that the engagement ring I gave her is  too loose in Sydney, however, when she is in Singapore, she complains it is too tight.  My point is that your body swells when you are in tropical areas and it may be that AE had a spare pair of shoes a size or two too large to account for this.

Regards

David Kelly
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:49:09 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Pat in Wilmington?

YOU stayed behind??  I gave up a whole months supply of Viagra to meet and talk with you this weekend at San Carlos, & now I'm stuck with Ric (as you have been for a few years).  Wonder if I can get my Viagra back..   RC #941

***************************

Sorry to disappoint you Bob, you'll just have to struggle through the crushing blow somehow or other. I wouldn't count on getting your Viagra back, there are repercussions connected with its use none of us thought of-- a 70 year old guy has been arrested for rape and he's claiming Viagra made him do it......

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:54:33 EDT
From:         Barb Wiley
Subject:      Re: Casting the film

Tom [Robison]:  Did you know that the Captain on the Itasca was deemed mentally incompetent shortly after the disappearance of AE - he began to ramble thoughts was what had happened to her and apparently began to make the "authorties" uncomfortable.   He was restationed to some remote northern region w/ the CG and died in total isolation and mental derangement?

Interesting stuff all the strange, unexplained deaths of individuals having had intimate involvement with the round the world flight.  Almost as mysterious as the strange and unusual deaths of those surrounding our current President.  Barb
**************************
If the statements about the Itasca's captain are true, they are verifiable through records. Anyone want to take a poke at it?

Remarks of any kind about the current state of politics in the US are *off topic* and will be removed from future postings unless they are also really funny.

And what this has to do with casting the movie I have no idea.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 09:56:31 EDT
From:         Barb Wiley
Subject:      Re: P-38 fuel usage

Russ:  I must be reminded of what I said in order to respond to your question, let me look up that e-mail and I'll get back to you.  I am kind of busy these daze. Barb

Russ Matthews wrote:

> For Barbara Wiley
> Subject: Re: P-38 fuel usage
> Barbara,
>
> I'm curious - please explain how the fuel management procedures of P-38
> pilots in WWII "had direct relationship to AE's disappearance."
>
>   Also, perhaps you are in a daze, but the plural form of "day" is spelled D-A-Y-S.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:00:30 EDT
From:         Barb Wiley
Subject:      Re: casting the film

Ronnie:  Just to clear up one small point - the ping pong balls were in all dead air space in the plane, not in fuel tanks.  She had the extra tanks for extra fuel for possible extra miles?  Barb

Ronnie wrote:

> On a more serious note please answer why anyone in their right mind would
> carry a zillion ping pong balls when any number of more valid methods would
> aid floatability.  I'd rather have more fuel and take my chances on never
> winding up in the water.  If the ping pong balls weigh as much as an
> inflatable raft what goof would opt for trying to keep the whole plane afloat
> rather than just yourself.

****************************

Maybe we should make a new rule, no responding to posts that are already more than three weeks old? Oh well.  Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:03:43 EDT
From:         R. Bodnar
Subject:      Earhart 1932

Back in 1981 I bought a house in Northville, Michigan where Henry Ford used to throw his private parties.  It is the subject house featured in the TV movie about his secret family.  Earhart  spent two nights here, supposedly in 1932, as a guest of Ford which she was test flying Stinsons, which were manufactured a couple thousand feet down the road.  Would anyone know of any support documents for this brief two days in her life.

Thanks.
************************

This is off-topic. If anyone wants to help out Mr/Ms Bodnar feel free but please keep it to private email. Thanks.   Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:19:35 EDT
From:         Barb Wiley
Subject:      Re: Message from Strippel

<<With interpolations by Pat>>

Hi Dick Strippel and Ric Gillespie

Dick I've been e-mailing frequently and just do not seem to get through - maybe Ric, you will be a pal, and send me Strippel's correct e-mail?

<<RGSTRIPPEL@AOL.COM reaches him for us. AOL addresses are not case sensitive, btw.>>

Ric, I am impressed, as I've said before with your effort in this genre.  I want you to be part of the book I'm contemplating on those who, like you, have demonstrated the willingness to focus time, energy and talents to the study of the disappearance of A.E.  Sooner or later I will make arrangements to meet you and ferret out how you will fit into the scheme of the devotees?

<<what can I say?>>

Will eventually join your organization, since turning over the "real" AE movement to Prymak, who ran it amuck, unfortunately, I have had too many other things to do.  Could spare some time to go on one of your expos. with enough advance notice.

<<Most of our meetings and activities are open to the public, but few are
free. Any that are open are announced on the Forum, our Web site, and in our
magazine. We try to give all interested parties sufficient information and
time to get their act together, cancel other engagements, and show up, but we
can't do individualized mailings to people who aren't members.>>

How come I get duplicate messages on the forum?

<<I have no idea. You are only subscribed once--the usual reason for dupes.
Ask your server.>>

The entire study of the effect of AE on all of us continues to behoove me!

You have heard of the infinitive of the verb?

<<behove  v.tr. (US behoove) (prec. by _it_ as subject; foll. by _to_ + infin)
formal  1  be incumbent on.  2 (usu. with neg.) befit (ill behooves him to
protest). [The Oxford Encyclopedic English Dictionary, 1995]

<<Example: It behooves me to attempt once more to communicate what this word
means; it ill behooves me to spend any additional time on it. I have no idea
what you mean, Barb, but I will tell you plainly that you are using the word
incorrectly. And that is the final posting (from anyone!) on this subject
because it is (read my lips) Off Topic.  Pat>>

=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:23:03 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Metal detection from the air

Pat wrote:
>Troublemaker.

Thanks, Pat. It's always rewarding when one's talents are recognized.

Regarding the P-3 flyover of Niku:

I realize that most of the metal we are looking for is aluminum, but I suspect that the term "magnetic" anomaly detector, as used by the Navy, is intentionally misleading.

I would think that any concentration of any metal in the lagoon on Niku would be readily apparent to the most sophisticated anti-submarine-warfare aircraft in the world.

And if said concentration of metal can be located from the air, that would sure make next year's expedition a lot easier, wot?

If I were Ric, I'd call the Navy, ANY Navy that operates the P-3. Ya never know, one of them might say "why not?"

Just a thought...
Tom
*******************************

Randy?
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:24:36 EDT
From:         Dick Polley
Subject:      Re: Gardner Island search

Just a note for information; I was interested in the comments about the natives on Gardner Island. I was stationed on the Loran base for a year and a half and got to see the natives and their village. As was mentioned their diet was mainly coconut and fish. We were invited to a sort of cook-out one night and that mixture of fish and coconut was enough to make me sick. Evidently that diet produced some very strong men. We had them down to the beach to gather up oil drums full of oil and stack them up on the beach. They did this work for a free meal of hash that we were happy to get rid of. I have seen 2 natives lift a 50 gal oil drum full of oil out of the surf and up to the beach and stack them 3 high. I have never seen such strong men in all my life. The natives were not used to our type of food and they ate it like it was ice cream . We put as much of that hash as we could on their plate and they ate every bit of it. The natives were very clean and their village was kept very clean all the time. Just a bit of Gardner history that I remembered.

Dick Polley
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:26:37 EDT
From:         John Dowlan
Subject:      Re: Amelia's shoe size

Not a medico here but for what it's worth I am allergic to Sodium and causes retention of water. Seems to be mostly concentrated to ankle swelling, although feet do not hurt. May or may not be your problem - just a comment.  John
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:44:39 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Re: Gardner Island search

Very interesting post on Gardner Island. The LORAN station was set up in '44, I understand. I'm wondering if the Japanese made patrol flights over Gardner and other islands from their base at Tarawa before the Marines took Tarawa in late '43. Did the natives ever mention anything like that? I was at Bien Hoa, Viet-Nam in summer of '65 and was awakened one night by a fighter jet screaming overhead low-level. Mumbling a few curse words at jet jocks, I went back to sleep. Next day found out it was a North V.N.  Mig-21, just showing us it could be done.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:51:22 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Metal detection from the air

Sorry, but the Laws of Physics still must be obeyed, even by the Navy. There are only certain qualities of metals or other materials that can be used for detection.  Magnetic materials can be detected with magnetic sensors; metallic objects can be detected with ground-penetrating radars (e.g. hand-held scanners that you see on the beach by beachcombers); density differences can be detected by gravimeters, but the densities have to be large and/or the sensor very precise in location and sensitivity; visual acuity can be used to distinguish optical backscatter differences from surrounding materials; seismic and/or acoustic sensors for speed of sound propagation and/or reflectivity differences.  My specialty is in marine geophysics, and if I knew of a good reconnaissance method for searching for AE, I would have mentioned it to Ric a long time ago.  This is one case that defies most conventional methods of search.  A new method has been recently developed called hyperspectral sensing, which uses a very wide bandwidth (beyond and including the visual bands), and broken up into literally 100's and 1000's of individual bands.  The amplitude spectrum across these individual bands can be used to differentiate areas and objects, but requires adequate ground truth for identification.  It can be used today (on P-3s of the Navy, no less!), but only to detect anomalies.  I've put the developers in touch with Ric Gillespie, but the equipment is expensive, and cannot be donated for free.

********************************

Thanks, Randy! I appreciate your stepping in here.  Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:53:45 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: death of Warner Thompson, captain of Itasca

The circumstances of the death of Warner K. Thompson, captain of the Itasca happened in 1938 or 1939 in Alaska.  The circumstances of his death have not been determined with contemporaneous documentation, but perhaps the USCG may have some somewhere.  He did die while in their employ.  I know his son is still around, and is also in the CG.  This is a reasonable line of research, should anyone want to attempt it.  I did a quick check at the National Archives and came up with zip.

*******************************

It is a good line of research if only to tie up a loose end. Personnel records may still be closed but it's definitely worth following up on. Volunteers?

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 11 Jul 1998 19:55:33 EDT
From:         Alan Caldwell
Subject:      Re: some info and an anecdote

I'm new to your group as of only a few days. I'm a retired USAF pilot and know nothing that might help you of course. I have been an Amelia buff for many decades and have read most everything written by or about her. Years ago I talked to one of the guys involved in a book trying to imply a Mrs. Bolam was in fact Earhart. The book was impressive at the time but clearly did not move the ball forward much if any.

In the 70s I and my son had lunch with Muriel and her husband, Albert near Boston. We kept in contact after that until Mrs. Morrissey's health failed. I was greatly saddened to see her pass. She was a great person in her own right and maintained her home almost as a museum to her sister. I remember the last thing she said was to ask me if I thought an aluminum airplane could stay intact in the water all these years. I told her it could.

Never have I seen such a volume of misinformation as in this mystery. Where it comes from only the Lord must know. For whatever value, I greatly appreciate your dedicated attempt to sort it all out. I wish you great success and only wish I could be of help. Money I don't have but time I do. Although I'm sure you have no shortage of folks like that.

I am just trying to catch up on some of the material here so I may have missed a point or two but I have not seen any comment on a navigation technique that my navigators used, Fred was reported to have used as well as most navs. And that is one of purposefully staying off to one side of the track (usually into the wind) when shooting sun lines. Then there is a simple decision which way to turn when reaching an LOP through destination.

I've read the weather was significantly different than predicted but in all my years of flying I found that to usually be true. It should have not come as a surprise to our daring duo. Fred certainly could figure drift so I doubt he was anywhere but left of track when he reached his turning point.

If I remember correctly Howland was misplotted about 5 miles at that time. Is that not correct? If so and if Amelia had dropped down under the clouds (scattered?) it would not be hard to miss her destination. Plus, if you've ever flown in such conditions you will know each cloud casts a shadow that looks like an island. They would have been everywhere. How they missed the smoke is tougher but again the water would have been a mass of shadows and perhaps it was too difficult to sort out shadow from land mass.

Keep up the good work.

Major Alan L. Caldwell
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:33:25 EDT
From:         Dick Polley
Subject:      Re: Gardner Island search

When I was stationed on the island there was only one native that spoke English and he was the radio operator from Australia. It was very difficult to communicate with the natives. I do not know if any of them had heard or seen any planes fly over the island or not. I know that all the time I was there the only plane we ever saw was the PBY that came once a week. Those natives were very fascinated in everything that we had, especially the A-frame wagon that we pulled by a D-8 CAT. They would walk all the way up from the village just to ride back on the A-Frame wagon. They had not been exposed to much of anything modern at the time.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 12 Jul 1998 15:38:00 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: Metal detection from the air

Amongst a bunch of three-dollar words that caused my eyes to water, Randy wrote:

> My specialty is in
>marine geophysics, and if I knew of a good reconnaissance method for
>searching for AE, I would have mentioned it to Ric a long-time ago.

My brain marches to a different drummer, and my "specialty", if you will, is in trying to think of the odd, off-the-wall idea that perhaps, just perhaps, no one has thought of before.

(My wife claims that my brain should have its own zip code, not because it's so large, but because it is, sometimes, so far "out there")

With my suggestion to fly a P-3 over Niku, I've obviously failed, once again, to come up with a good idea, and my failures greatly out-weigh my successes.

But I keep tilting at windmills, on the odd chance...

Tom Cook wrote:

>How about Monica Lewinsky's love life?

Oh, Puh-lease. Spare me! Let's keep this discussion out of the gutter.

Tom
==========================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:14:54 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      San Carlos Conference

Enjoyed the conference.  Very informative and an outstanding group of people. Happy to have been part of it.  Bob, TIGHAR # 940 and I will be reviewing the data on the Electra's radio equipment and updating where necessary.

Love to Mother,

Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:26:12 EDT
From:         Al Hall
Subject:      Re: Control of the Phoenix Islands

>Some comment has been made about joint control of the Phoenix Islands by
>the British & USA, but I vaguely remember the French were also involved
>and seeing a WW2 map indicating joint control by the three nations. 
****************************************************************

From Ric

Nope.  No French (at least that I ever read of).  Some French Jesuits had quite a bit of influence up in the Gilberts, but that was much earlier.  The big kerfluffle about ownership of the Phoenix Group in the 1930s was, I'm quite sure, strictly between the U.S. and Britain.  As far as I know, the next Frenchman to invade the Phoenix Group was Frank Fournier, the LIFE magazine photographer who accompanied our 1991 expedition.  The archipelago survived the experience, but just barely.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:43:38 EDT
From:         Mare
Subject:      Why not a better island?

I just joined TIGHAR and the list.  I was watching Discovery channel and saw a show on AE.  I was intrigued.  But... I have a few questions I was hoping to have clarified.  If she had fuel and supplies, why did she land/crash/end up on a island such as Gardner?  I would have been nclined to find one with people capable of assistance and hopefully a runway.  Now I'm no expert in any of this but it just didn't make much sense to me.

***************************************************************

From Ric

I'm sure Amelia would have preferred an island with people and a runway. Unfortunately, the only one like that in the whole area was Howland - the one she couldn't find.  She had to take what she could get.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:50:05 EDT
From:         Tim
Subject:      Re: Noonan Drinking References

As you requested, I checked my older Earhart books for a reference to Noonan's drinking earlier than 1966.  Although I didn't find one that old, I did find an interesting reference in a book published in 1970.  The book is Amelia Earhart, by Nevin Bell.  The publisher is Heron Books and it was printed in Switzerland.  In the Historical Appendix, this reference to Noonan appears:

"Although never considered an actual alcoholic, his heavy drinking was an ever-present enemy to his talents and abilities, and interfered with the potential brilliance of his career.  Eventually, despite a genuine battle, it got the better of him and he lost his position with Pan American. Subsequently, the aura of this disqualification blighted his way in aviation."

Obviously, this author is suggesting that Pan Am knew about his drinking problem and fired him for it.  Wonder if that is true and is verifiable.  Hope this is helpful.

**************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks.  The plot thickens.  More unsubstantiated anecdote.  Nothing pre-dating Goerner's 1966 allegations.  The Fred Noonan that is emerging from the hard documentation being uncovered by the researchers of The Noonan Project is a very different character than the boozy, happy-go-luck Irishman of Earhart mythology.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:51:30 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: New song

>We're obviously going to have to start a Songs of the Earhart Forum
>collection.
>
S'no lie.  Welcome to the -- er -- club, Gene.

TK
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:55:25 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Year-long Gardner Island search

>The bottom line is, I think that you probably need to increase your budget by
>a factor of ten.  The other problem is that anybody dumb enough to accept the
>job couldn't find anything anyway.

Well, budget aside, there are a few of us dumb enough to accept the job.

Tom King
(Earhart Project Archeologist)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:07:43 EDT
From:         Ric gillespie
Subject:      AE Conference Report

It behooves me to say that I really enjoyed reading the postings from this past weekend.  Pat runs a tight ship (but I knew that).  As a sequel to the discussion about tides, the all-knowing expert signed off the forum after Randy handed him his head.  This is one tough forum. Maybe we should post a warning in the welcome message - "Pontificate At Your Peril."

The Earhart Conference in San Francisco (actually held just down the road from SFO in San Carlos) was well-attended, productive and a ton of fun.  Meetings were conducted all day Saturday and Sunday, July 11 and 12.  Our host was the new Hiller Aviation Museum, a state-of-the-art facility on the airport in San Carlos, with a good hotel right next door, and restaurants within walking distance.  Couldn't be better.

Attending were -

Earhart Expedition Team Members:
Ric Gillespie, Exec. Dir.
Veryl Fenlason, 0053
John Clauss, 0142CE
Dr. Tom King. 0391CE
Dr. Tommy Love, 0457CE
Russ Matthews, 0509CE
Kristin Tague, 0905CE
Kenton Spading, 1382CE
Van Hunn, 1459CE

TIGHAR Members:
Curt Weil, 0592
Jim Tierney, 0821
George Kastner, 0862C
Bob Williams, 0902
Chris Foltz, 0913 CE
Bob Sherman, 0941
Walt Holm, 0980C
Bob Runge, 1251C
Tony Rocha, 1910C
Jerry Hamilton, 1984
Bob Perry, 2021
Chuck Jackson, 2089
Don Jordan, 2109

The purpose of the conference was to review and discuss specific avenues of investigation which have the potential to produce significant new evidence in the Earhart disappearance.

Saturday was spent on issues relating to the bones found on Nikumaroro in 1940.

Kris Tague described the ongoing effort to determine what happened to the bones after they were examined at the Central Medical School in Suva, Fiji in 1941.  On a research trip to Fiji last year, Kris determined that neither the bones nor the artifacts found with them, are now in the custody of the Fiji Musuem.  Further research has raised the possibility that the bones remained in the collection of the Central Medical School until as recently as 1991 when the school disposed of its entire bone collection.  We'd like to send Kris back out to Fiji to see if she can track down just how and where that disposal came about, and whether the bones still exist.  The funding required for this project is $4,000.  If you would like to sponsor, or help sponsor, this facet of the research, please contact me, Ric Gillespie at TIGHAR1@aol.com.

Jerry Hamilton gave an excellent presentation and distributed a written report summarizing the wealth of new information he and his fellow TIGHAR researchers have uncovered about Fred Noonan.  Assembling an accurate chronology of Noonan's life not only helps us replace myth with fact concerning Earhart's navigator, but it is essential in tracking down a direct descendant of Noonan in the female line - a requirement for mitochondrial  DNA matching, should the bones be re-located.

Chuck Jackson provided measurements taken of the tailwheel of the Lockheed Model 10 at the Western Aerospace Museum in Oakland.  This is one of several measurements needed to establish scale in photos of Earhart and Noonan for comparison to the dimensions of the skull found on Nikumaroro in 1940.  The results of this forensic imaging project could provide a strong indication of whether the person whose remains were found on the island might have been from the lost flight.  Tom King pointed out that, because the bones were credibly judged to be male by the examining physician in 1941, our priority should be the scaling of the photos of Noonan.

On Saturday afternoon the group undertook an exhaustive review of some 97 pages of hard evidence (contemporaneous documents) and soft evidence (anecdotal accounts) which describe the bones and artifacts found at the castaways campsite on Nikumaroro.  Several new and interesting observations were made by members of the group.  Among them was an assertion by Bob Williams, who had a long career with Pan American in maintenance, that PAA routinely stenciled numbers on the outside of wooden boxes containing instruments and specialized tools.  The sextant box found on the island in 1940 had the number 3500 stenciled on it.  A box containing a sextant known to have belonged to Noonan, now in a museum collection, has the number 3547 handwritten on the outside.  Bob Williams says that he recognizes the construction of the box as standard Pan American.

On Sunday the group reviewed the anecdotal evidence which describes airplane wreckage on the reef and on the beach at Nikumaroro.  The conference participants also examined the enhanced aerial photography which seems to corroborate the stories.  All agreed that the only way to know for sure was to go and look, which led to a long and intense discussion about how the work should be prioritized, and of the need for funding and sponsorship.

A consensus was reached that, as part of the process of putting together the Nku IIII expedition, a TIGHAR delegation needs to go to Tarawa, the capital of the Republic of Kiribati, to coordinate with the government the management of existing and anticipated artifacts.  There is also a need for a thorough search of the national archive and museum of Kiribati for documents and/or artifacts related to the known events of 1940/41.  In addition, interviews with surviving former-residents of Nikumaroro, now living in Tarawa (such as the woman who claims to have been shown the "grave of a pilot" on Nikumaroro in 1938 or '39), may provide additional anecdotal leads.  This phase of the project could be accomplished for $25,000.

A firm budget for the Niku IIII search expedition must await the selection of a ship and the finalizing of dates, all of which is now in process.  One thing, however, is certain - it will take a concerted effort by everyone who believes that TIGHAR's work on the Earhart disappearance is worth doing, to pull together and contribute and make the expedition a reality.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:09:55 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Re: Noonan Drinking References

Regarding Noonan and drinking:
We know Fred drank alcohol. He said so. As far as an alcohol problem, there are anecdotes both ways. I suggest that for the future the only information we post on the Forum is direct documentation of a drinking problem (e.g. - DUI ticket/record) or direct verifiable personal accounts on either side of the issue (not second hand or hearsay stories, but direct accounts, like the one from a shipmate of Fred's posted last week - that person did not recall any problem). By the way, Elgen Long says Fred was not fired from Pan Am, but we have not found any evidence either way. Direct evidence is what we need.

Blue skies, -jerry
**************************************************************

From Ric

Amen
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:11:32 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      The French in the Pacific

Al may be thinking of New Caledonia, which the Brits and French ran as a "condominium" for many years; I presume it has its independence now.

Tom King
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:15:30 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      For Polley re natives

For Dick Polley:  Great information about conditions on Niku/Gardner.  Your observations about islanders' health and dietary habits are similar to mine on other islands in the last twenty years, except that now everybody eats canned (tinned) hash, and it's been suggested that huge herds of Spamalope are hunted in the interior valleys of some Micronesian islands.

I'd appreciate your opinion -- or speculation, if you will.  Floyd Kilts, the ex-Coast Guardsman who reported the "bones story" to the San Diego Union in 1960, said that when he was helping dismantle the station...

"A native tried to tell me about it, but I couldn't understand all of it so I got an interpreter."

The question that keeps worrying me is: why would "a native" try to tell him about finding bones in the bush?  Did people just volunteer this kind of thing?  Since you actually knew the folks in the 1940s, your opinion would
really be interesting. 
Thanks in advance,

Tom King
Earhart Proj. Archeologist
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:29:13 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Theories

I accept that part of the following is a little bit out of scope, but I will ask at my peril...

I read the Vince Loomis/Jeff Ethel book (rest in peace, Jeff) many years ago, and although it sounded plausible at the time, I think it is a bunch of hooey now.

The question is, has Loomis sounded off on the TIGHAR theories? Is he sticking by his guns? (Is he still alive?) [recall that Loomis was convinced that Amelia came down in a lagoon near, what, Mili atoll or something like that?]

Ric, is there a published list of all TIGHAR members?

Tom
**************************************************************

From Ric

I don't know if Loomis is still alive.  Last I heard, years ago, he was in litigation with one of the former sponsors of his expedition.  I know of no comment he has made about TIGHAR's work.

Jeff Ethell was a friend of mine.  His death was truly tragic.

We last published a TIGHAR Directory for members in 1994.  We're hesitant to do it again because we very much want to protect our membership list from falling into the hands of direct mailers and spammers.  The demographics of our membership make them a very desirable group - educated, middle-to-upper income, lots of executives, entrepreneurs and professionals.  They're a treasure that we jealously guard.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:34:32 EDT
From:         Tim Heck
Subject:      Connie wreck on Canton

Were you ever looking on Canton Island?  I remember hearing about it, but forget if it is from your search.  I think it was about the engine. Here is an interesting bit of info.

Federal Aviation Administration L-749A N116A. Canton Island, Pacific, 26 Apr 62.
Loss of control on touch-and-go caused by undetected reversal of #4 propeller.

If Canton was the location of the engine discovery, could this be the engine?

Tim

**************************************************************

From Ric

Our Kanton Mission research and expedition is fully covered in a number of articles on our website at www.tighar.org.  We're aware of the FAA Connie that bit it on Canton in 1962.  If you'll read the articles you'll see that there is no way an engine from that wreck could be the engine in question.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:37:06 EDT
From:         Mac
Subject:      Radio jargon

Ric wrote:

> I'm afraid that I'm not familiar with some of the radio termininology you're
> using.  What we have to document the reception of signals and the bearing
> taken on them are government radio messages and Pan Am memoranda describing
> what they heard. and the bearings taken.  We'll be making these documents
> available on a CD-ROM later this year.

Ric

        QTR = local time ( to estimate maximum usable frequency )
        QRG = Radio frequency in Megacycles/second (MHz)
        QSA = Strength of signals

Regards
 Mac

**************************************************************

From Ric

Thank you.  Yes, we have that information.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:10:16 EDT
From:         Carol Anne Strippel
Subject:      From Strippel's daughter

To all:

I'm not sure this will go through and be posted on your site, but here goes.

I'm writing for my father, whom many of you may know suffered a stroke one year ago and still is working hard to try to move toward greater rehabilitation.

Perhaps you'll have some patience with his posts -- he must type in all caps so that he can see and read what he has written, and he  makes typos because he only has the use of his right hand.

Because of these problems, I've gotten a new computer for him with a larger screen and a faster modem and pentium speed.  This should solve some of his e-mailing problems.

Thanks to all of your for you patience and your interest in his thoughts and opinions on AE.  IMHO (and I am his daughter), he is one of the foremost experts on Earhart and her travels.  His book remains one of the best.

Best wishes to you all on your research,

Carol Anne Strippel
*************************************************************
From Ric

Dear Ms. Strippel

I was aware that your father had had health problems although I didn't know the particulars.  I assumed that they were to some degree responsible for the appearance of his messages and I have, from the beginning, corrected the spelling where I could be sure what he intended.  I'll continue to do that.

I did not tell the forum about his health problems because I assumed that he would not want me to.  I thank you for doing so.

I agree with you that your father's knowledge of the Earhart mystery is extensive.  I also had the pleasure of debating the subject with him via email before his stroke, and I know that while the format of his postings may have changed since then, their tone and tenor have not.

You have my assurance that I will continue to post all of his offerings that I can within the bounds of good taste. I will post no profanity or extereme vulgarity and I will not post abusive language and insults unless they are directed at me alone.

Whatever our differences of opinion about events of the ancient past, I'm sure that I speak for all of the members of TIGHAR's Amelia Earhart Search Forum when I wish him a speedy recovery and many more long and cantakerous years.  Please tell him we love him.

Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:29:22 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Year-long Gardner Island search

Tom King wrote:

>> The bottom line is, I think that you probaly need to increase your budget by
>>a factor of ten.  The other problem is that anybody dumb enough to accept the
>>job couldn't find anything anyway.
>
> Well, budget aside, there are a few of us dumb enough to accept the job.
>
> Tom King
> (Earhart Project Archeologist)

I must be dumb too...I'd go in a heartbeat...
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:30:19 EDT
From:         Russ Matthews
Subject:      Re: From Strippel's daughter

Received and understood.  Thank you for sharing this information with the forum.   You will hear no more from me about spelling, case size, or presentation of messages - content, however, is another matter.  I hope that our debate will continue for years to come (or at least until TIGHAR finds the Electra) and am sure that the other forum members will join me in saying...

  ...GET WELL SOON, DICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  LTM,
  Russ
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:32:34 EDT
From:         Roger Kelley
Subject:      From Strippel's daughter

In response to Mr. Strippel's daughter, you handled your self as a gentlemen.  Thanks.

I send my best wishes to Mr. Strippel and pray that comfort will quickly return to his life.

Roger Kelley, #2112
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:41:43 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Message from Strippel's daughter

Amen!  Well done, Ric.
My best wishes to Dick Strippel's recovering health.

*************************************************************

from Ann
Dick,
I too wish you a complete and speedy recovery.
Ann #2101
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 08:42:44 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Radio jargon

Could you ask Mac, or any other members of the forum, if he/they remembers the
meanings of:
ZAV
ZCX
ZCY
CIM
ZLM
SQE
ZRW
FL
Some of these radio signals are important to understand whether the Ontario heard Earhart or not.  Thanks.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:07:57 EDT
From:         Dick Polley
Subject:      Re: For Polley re natives

Tom,
    I've only been on this forum for about a week now so don't have too much knowledge of what has been discussed. Your question about why any native on Gardner would just come up and discuss ANYTHING is strange to me, as none of them ever discussed a thing  to any of us on the station as long as I was there. As I mentioned, they couldn't speak English so the only one we had any conversations with was the radio operator at the village. The natives never came to the station without being invited so there was never much socializing. They were very friendly and the kids were a lot of fun. They seemed to respect us a great deal. Just before I was shipped out the natives built a large meeting hut right in our back yard so-to-speak. They also built us an out-rigger canoe. My buddy, Bob Begotka, and I, decided to take the out-rigger for a sail one moon-lit night and we sailed it all the way down to the village and couldn't get it back. We left it there and walked back. The CO had a fit as he was under the impression that the out-rigger was built just for him and that my buddy and I stole it. A short time later we were sent to Hawaii for rehab and got re-assigned to Majuro.

    Well, so much for my rambling on about uneventful happenings 53 years ago. If I can be of any help in any happenings during the year and a half I spent there please feel free to contact me.

Dick Polley

*************************************************************

From Ric

In about a month we'll have another veteran of Unit 92 on the forum.  Richard Evans was there from the construction phase in the summer of '44 through the next year.  Dick was a "scopey" - he monitored the oscilloscope which governed the Loran frequency.  We've known Dick for several years but he just recently came on line.  He's off on vacation for the next month or so but has said that he'll be joining the forum when he gets back.

Dick Polley, do you remember Dick Evans?  Your story about the out-rigger and about Sopko's reaction sounds typical.  In our experience, the public's impression of life on remote Pacific outposts during WWII has more to do with scenes from "South Pacific" than with reality.  We often hear that no airplane wreckage could possibly be hidden in the underbrush on Gardner because "the Coast Guard guys must have combed every inch of that island."  I think that it would be interesting to all of us if you could give us a little description of what life was like in Unit 92.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:10:39 EDT
From:         Russ Matthews
Subject:      For Barb Wiley from Matthews

In a message dated 98-07-11 09:57:09 EDT, Barb Wiley writes:

>Russ:  I must be reminded of what I said in order to respond to your
>question, let me look up that e-mail and I'll get back to you.   >>

I'll save you the trouble.  It went something like this...

June 11.  Randy Jacobson's father passed along some interesting observations about how he and other P-38 pilots managed their fuel during WWII.

June 13.  You wrote "As time goes by perhaps we can hear on the forum even more stories of those daze [sic] that had direct relationship to AE's disappearnce."

June 14.  I wrote "I'm curious - please explain how the fuel management practices of P-38 pilots in WWII had a 'direct relationship to AE's disappearance.'"  (Sorry, I didn't include the text of your previous days' post - at the time I figured you would still remember it.)

I'll also save you the trouble of looking through three file cabinets crammed with stories for your answer...there is NO "direct" connection between Earhart's fate and how a certain group of men flew completely different airplanes a full five years after the events in question.

Unlike "Flamable" and "Inflamable," "Direct" and "Indirect" do not mean the same thing (boy, did I learn that one the hard way).

  Love to Mother,
  Russ
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:07:49 EDT
From:         Mike
Subject:      Nauru overflight

I saw the mention of Loomis/Ethell book yesterday; it so happens I just finished reading it for the first time. Interesting stuff and doesn't appear far-out to me, but I wanted to ask your opinion of the Nauru overflight - is that claim generally accepted now? I don't see that it upsets the TIGHAR theory in any way.

Also his comments re: AE's confusion between 7500 kc and 750.0 meters (400 kc) struck me because I had just been wondering about that last week. My dad is a ham and they all seem to convert in their heads instantaneously at will, but I sure can't.
***************************************************************

From Ric

I'll go along with the 7500 kc versus 750.0 meters as reasonable speculation. I can't come up with a better guess as to why she should ask for such an apparently inappropriate frequency.

The Nauru overflight, however, seems highly unlikely to me.  The speculation that she took a big unnecessary dogleg in her route to Howland seems based entirely upon a message received while Earhart was in Lae which described a new light at Nauru.  The reasoning goes, why would they tell her about the light if she wasn't planning to go there?

As always, it helps to know the whole story and put the message in its proper context.

According to the Chater Report (which was not available to Loomis),

"On June 30th the following message was sent to the Chief Wireless Inspector, Rabaul - Mr. Twycross -

TWYCROSS RABAUL
AMELIA EARHART WOULD BE GRATEFUL IF YOU COULD OBTAIN WEATHER REPORTS BY ABOUT TEN AM FIRST JULY FROM NARAU (sic) OR OCEAN ISLAND TARAWA AND RABAUL ALSO FOR YOUR INFORMATION HER PLANE KHAQQ WILL TRANSMIT ON 6210 KCS QUARTER PAST EACH HOUR ON HER FLIGHT ACROSS TO HOWLAND ISLAND

to which we received the following reply -

THE FOLLOWING FROM NARAU (sic) STOP NEW NARAU FIXED LIGHT LAT 0.32 S LONG 16.55 EAST FIVE THOUSAND CANDLEPOWER 5600 FEET ABOVE SEA LEVEL VISIBLE FROM SHIPS TO NAKED EYE AT 34 MILES STOP ALSO THERE WILL BE BRIGHT LIGHTING ALL NIGHT ON ISLAND FROM PHOSPHATE FIELD WORKINGS STOP WEATHER 8 AM  BARO. 29.908 THERM 84 WING (sic) SE 3 FINE BUT CLOUDY SEA SMOOTH TO MODERATE STOP PLEASE ADVISE TIME DEPARTURE AND ANY INFORMATION RE RADIO TRANSMISSION WITH TIMES."

So what is really happening here?  Lae queries Rabaul on Earhart's behalf and asks for the weather at places close to her route of flight (Rabaul, either Nauru or Ocean Island, and Tarawa).  Only Nauru replies.  They don't have any information about Earhart's route except that she's flying to Howland.  Being as helpful as possible, they include information about the lights on the island.  I don't see anything here that indicates that Earhart has any intention of going to Nauru.  There's no airfield there.  It's way out of the way. She has the USS Ontario on station at her halfway point specifically to give her a checkpoint.  She didn't even specifically ask for weather information for Nauru.  Ocean Island would have been just as good.  She certainly didn't ask anything about lights.  Nobody on Nauru later claimed to have heard a plane fly over.

There is also the point that, had she taken a big pointless detour up to Nauru, she could not possibly have arrived in the vicinity of Howland when we know she did.  Take Earhart's known fuel, the airplane's known performance, her known progress reports, the weather as far as we know it, and her known arrival time in the Howland area, and it all works out very nicely. Everything seems to have been going great until radio reception problems made it impossible for them to fine tune their navigation at the very end of the flight.

The Loomis/Ethell book does what most Earhart books, and especially the conspiracy books, do.  It takes documented fact out of context and gives it an unwarranted interpretation.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:15:39 EDT
From:         Mac
Subject:      Earhart's radios

Regarding the issue of 750 meters vs. 7500 Kc (now KHz = Kilohertz):

Most aircraft radios from this era had dials calibrated in frequency, i.e., kilocycles or megacycles,  rather than wavelength, i.e., meters. It seems difficult to imagine how AE might have confused frequency and wavelength, given this fact.  However, it is also al fact that 400 Kilocycles (KHz)  (or, if you will, 750 meters wavelength) is indeed within the normal tuning range - and direction-finding range -- of  many aircraft communications receivers from the period.

What type of direction finder unit did the Electra carry?  Was it, perhaps, a Bendix MN-26 unit?  I have a complete manual on this equipment which covers most if not all the variants,  and there were differences in the actual tuning range of the  different  frequency bands of  each.  Some models had only low frequency coverage, such as 150-1500 Kc; others had a couple of low frequency bands plus  some high frequency coverage.

From some past postings, I have been under the impression  that Amelia was trying to "take bearings" on signals at either 3105 , 6210, or 7500 Kc.  The versions of the  Bendix MN-26  which did include high frequency coverage were not capable of  operating as a direction finder in the high frequency bands, but as a communications receiver only, for both phone (voice) and C-W (Morse code) signals.  It is entirely possible that a pilot, who is not a radio-techie, would not have understood this and so would be trying in vain to take such bearings, frantically cranking the manually-rotatable D-F loop, unable to comprehend why he/she couldn't get a "null" on the high frequency signal.

As a point of tech info:  the D-F loop antenna would not even be "in the circuit" of the radio at high frequency.

Even if the Electra's  radio direction finder receiver was not a Bendix MN-26, I am not aware of any other D-F unit used in aircraft  prior to WW2 which could be used  to get bearings  at frequencies above about 1700 Kc.

Can someone give me some information as to what radios the Electra carried?

I will look up the Z-signals someone asked about earlier as soon as I can get to my list.
***************************************************************

From Ric

The question of just what radios were aboard the Electra on its last flight is harder to determine than you might imagine.  The available information indicates that she was using a Western Electric 20B receiver coupled to a Bendix MN-5 manually rotatable loop.  The 20B is an "all-wave" manually tuned receiver with four bands.
Band 1 - 200 to 400 KC
Band 2 - 550 to 1500 KC
Band 3 - 1500 - 4000 KC
Band 4 - 4000 to 10,000 KC

So she could tune the receiver to 7500 KC but her loop would not get a null on such a high frequency.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 15 Jul 1998 16:34:12 EDT
From:         Jim Kelly
Subject:      Parker Pen Report

Just finished an interesting morning at Parker Pen. Very helpful folks there; everyone wanted to get a look a the pen in Fred's pocket. As these were the same people who repair all the Parker pens they were very helpful. The consensus was that the pen is a "Vacumatic" (apparently spelled several ways) and I will prepare a report on the models of pens available at that time, as well as the measurements. Look for it next week.
Regards 
(or am I allowed to say "LTM")
Jim Kelly
2085 (finally got that right! right?)

**************************************************************

From Ric

Yes, Agent 2085.  You've got that right.

Vacumatic huh?  A guy who drives a Terraplane might well write with a Vacumatic.  I only hope that someday the 1990s will seem as cool as the 1930s. I'll look forward to your report.

As for using LTM (Love to mother), it may be time to formalize the tradition. Let's let the forum decide who is entitled to use that distinguished and utterly esoteric closing.

Should the "Love to mother" closing be used:
1.  By any subscriber to the forum.
2.  Only by TIGHAR members.
3.  Only by TIGHAR members who have performed research for the Earhart Project.

Please submit your vote.

(In any case Jim, you're entitled.)

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:26:56 EDT
From:         Sandy Cates
Subject:      New Forum Subscriber

I have been so pumped up about all that your group has been doing and what it's plans are since I saw your documentary in June. I have been reading all that I can get my hands on. What is the status of the photos that were being analyzed, and is the trip for this year still on ? I know that you have been trying to get funding for transportation and if I were to try to get funding from any corporate sources is there any additional information that I should know other than what you have published in the e- mails I have gotten. In other words do you have some standard information that you have that could be sent to prospective donors? I'm willing to do what I can to help. Also, is the group that actually goes to Niku. based mainly on the size of vessel you have available or are there other considerations. I personally don't think that I could swing a month away from my family - sometimes I wish I could - but I'm just curious as to the requirements for the members of the search team. I hope to join TIGHAR in the very near future. Thanks for keeping this dream alive. 

Sandy Cates

***********************************

Sandy, I will answer your questions briefly here because I know there are many new subscribers who may have some of the same questions.

The photo analysis continues, and is in the hands of Photek, the company mentioned in the documentary. It takes a *lot* of time to do such analysis and the company is doing it for free.

The Niku IIII is currently scheduled for June/July 1999 because of ship availability (that was the only block of time large enough to do the work we wanted to do).

If you have serious fund-raising prospects locally or professionally, we (that's the corporate "we") should talk by telephone and we need to send you materials before you go very far with it. We welcome all fund-raising help but ask that people be very well-informed about TIGHAR, our methods, and our goals, to avoid confusion later on. Call any time.

The team size is always dependent on the size of the ship available. The size of the ship available is dependent on the funds available, and also on "availability" in the more specific sense of the word: there aren't that many ships out there, few of them are in the central Pacific, and many of them are not only wildly expensive ($15,000 to $20,000 a day) but are also overkill as they are set up for highly technical oceanographic work, which we don't need.

The team makeup is the single most important aspect of the expedition. To go on the expedition, you must be a member of TIGHAR; must have completed our aviation archeology course or an equivalent; and must have worked in the field with us on another project or an equivalent. ("Equivalency" status to course and field work is granted only by TIGHAR management and can't be described or predicted.)

Because team dynamics ruin more expeditions than any other cause, our primary focus is to be very sure that everyone involved can get along, can physically do the work, and can psychologically take the pressure. The upcoming expedition will be approximately six weeks door to door, and there will be *no* chance to leave once the ship casts off from Fiji, no matter what happens at home or at the business. We have found that people with young families do not do well in this environment; nor do people who are fanatically devoted to the memory of Amelia. We look for people who are used to working outdoors in miserable conditions without griping; people who can argue without fighting; people who can follow without sniping and lead without posturing; and people who, when the chips are down (which they are, occasionally), can suck it up and tough it out in truly wretched (even dangerous) conditions without whining and thinking that everything would all be perfect if the group would only do it their way.

Well, that's not very brief. Sorry! Think of it as a FAQ.

Pat, who is now doing some of the Forum for Ric because he's trying to re-allocate his time a bit.

=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:35:53 EDT
From:         Dick Polley
Subject:      About life on Gardner Island with the Coast Guard

I'm glad to hear that Dick Evans will be on line. He recently had a triple by-pass operation and has been on the mend. I talked with him not too long ago and he seemed to be doing quite well. I too was a "scopey" with Dick. We have swapped many a recollected story about our stay on Gardner. We all came down together from Canton as the Construction Battalion Unit 211.

Our life on that Island was extremely monotonous. Our watches were 4 on 8 off for the most part. I managed to relieve my monotony by developing and printing photographs. I had one of the tents that we stayed in while we built the base and used it as a dark room. Only good at night of course. I developed and printed pictures that the guys took and I even made an enlarger out of the base camera. Sopko was good enough to let me do that as he had an interest in photography also.

While I was there I learned how to operate a D-6 and D-8 bulldozer. While on Canton I even learned how to run a landing barge. During the day it was too hot to do anything outside so most of the time we stayed in the rec. hall and
played poker or played ping-pong. I got very good at ping-pong. Once in a while a couple of us would make up 5 gal. of ice cream out of powdered milk and put it in the reefer until froze. We would go into the reefer and eat the ice cream right out of the 5 gal. tin.  Once in a while we would get the pharmacist mate to donate a bit of pure grain alcohol which we would poor into the top of a coke. That makes one potent drink! The routine would be disrupted by the CO getting everyone fully armed with every gun available and going down to the beach at night because he thought he saw some lights out in the ocean and of course it must have been a Jap sub! After a couple of times of that routine I go wise and left all the ammo behind except one clip in the rifle. That made a whole lot lighter load to carry!

My father had sent me an all-band radio which I left set up in the Loran shack so we all could listen to music from Australia and from Armed Forces Radio broadcasts. The only radio contact we had was by Morse code to Canton. I managed to spend a lot of time writing home and to a number of girls that wrote me. It was an exciting day on Saturday when the PBY came flying in. It landed in the lagoon. Once I had to go back to Canton to have some dental work done, which gave me the opportunity to fly in the PBY. That was my first flight in a plane and it is one I shall remember all my life. There is nothing like taking off and landing on water! Once every 6 months a ship would lay off shore and off load fresh food, beer, coke and cigarettes; plus other supplies that were needed to maintain the base operation. You know, as I look back on this experience it didn't seem like a paradise at the time but now I guess it really was. At least the island was one of the best in the chain. Canton was a coral reef, Baker was the same and I guess Atafu wasn't bad but none of them had a lagoon like Gardner. Also I don't believe any of them had natives. The natives came up from the village at Christmas time with gifts for all. That was quite an event!. They were good a making all sorts of things out of shells and palms.

There are so many experiences and events that have escaped my memory but once a year the Coast Guard Loran units at Canton; Baker, Atafu and Gardner get together a talk over old times out there in the vast Pacific Islands and many things are remembered by one person that have been forgotten by others. Our next reunion is this October in Kentucky. It's a different place every year. Wow, you're going to get sick of hearing all my recollections so had better close and if you have any questions please don't hesitate to write.
Have a GOOD day!

Dick Polley
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:39:18 EDT
From:         Clyde Miller
Subject:      Re: LTM poll and Parker Pens

It seems to me "Love to Mother" is very specific to the fabled circle of TIGHAR members who have suffered through much and enjoyed much together through the PRE forum days.  I think the statement is uniquely and proudly theirs alone and should be considered "family"... We of the forum are newcomers and extended family members, perhaps we should consider our own signoff.  We  have many participants (TIGHAR members and not) who are contributing in so many significant-unique ways. A signoff unique to forum participants would help foster an even greater electronic bonding.  (I'm sure in the vast repository of forum communications there is now residing the perfect forum catch phrase and someone out there will voice it)  Of course something like "We're not in Kansas anymore" has already been used elsewhere.  Interesting how an electronic village develops isn't it?

Clyde Miller


P.S.  Is the vacumatic a pen that writes in any position?  Something perhaps useful to a navigator writing on charts, papers etc. in any number of positions in a crowded cabin?

************************

Jim? Could we maybe find out about this? It's an interesting question. Like today's "space pens" perhaps?

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:41:58 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: LTM poll

I vote for anyone who wants to use it.  Ric knows of my personal sign-off, which I have refrained from using on the forum, due to its delicate nature.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:44:34 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Nauru overflight

Even worse about the Nauru light story is that the original radio message had a typo: the light was at 560 foot elevation, not 5600 feet!  I double-checked that with the sailing directions of 1937, which described the light position and height.  So... if AE was expecting a light source well above 1 mile's elevation, she would have been sorely disappointed.  Based upon my reconstructions of her flight, using probabilistic Monte-Carlo simulations, her detour to Nauru would have seriously disrupted her ability to sustain her later reports of distance from Howland the next morning.

=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:55:07 EDT
From:         Mike Rejsa
Subject:      Re: LTM poll

My vote (as a non-anything) would be:

"Love to Mother" to be used only by Ric, as editor and head water buffalo.

LTM to be informally permissible from TIGHAR members and researchers as a gesture of respect for their contribution.

Unwashed plebian derelicts (myself included) are prohibited from any usage of the phrase except for biweekly newbie FAQ-ignoring queries about what it means.

LFM
Mike
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:02:06 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Shoe sizes

I was reading The Tarawa File, Document #2 on the TIGHAR.org web site when it dawned on me that the British and American sizes of shoes do not use the same size number for the same size of shoe.  I dug out an old (1950s) Pan Am New Horizons World Guide book, that has a Comparative Table Of Clothing Sizes, and sure enough, women's shoes, at least then, were categorized into three different sizes; American, English and European.  Mr. Gallagher indicates in Document #2 (b) that the shoe was a woman's and probably size 10.  The Comparative Chart shows that an English woman's size 10 shoe is equivalent to an American woman's size 12.  The European (continent) size would be 44.  Does that foggy the issue?  Could it be that Mr. Gallagher was not a very good judge of woman's shoe sizes?

Love to Mother,
Bob

***************************************************************

From Ric

Wow, you're right.  Let's see if we can sort out the probabilities.

Gallagher doesn't say it IS a size 10, but that it is PROBABLY a size 10.  He also says that "only part of sole remains" (telegram of 6 October 1940).  If the size was still legible on the sole it seems like he would state the size without the qualifier.  We can therefore reasonably assume that he is making a judgment about the size, and I think that you are correct that we must presume that he's talking British sizes.  How accurate is the judgment of an unmarried Englishman when assessing the size of a woman's shoe from part of a sole?  That's anybody's guess.  And why, I wonder, does he think that it's a woman's "stoutish walking shoe or heavy sandal" (same telegram) ?  Clearly, none of the uppers survived (if it was not a sandal).  Seems to me that what he has is part of a fairly beefy sole and something about it tells him that it's for woman and the size is largish.  That's a pretty good description of what we found, except we also found a heel.  We looked real hard and found lots of little busted up pieces of the sole which could be roughly reassembled to give an indication of the original size.  We came up with a total sole length of about 277 mm in length, which is equivalent to an American woman's size eight and a half or nine (in modern times).  Whether that would have been different 60 years ago is another question.  What we do know is that photogrammetric measurement of Earhart's shoe in a picture of her standing on the wing of the Electra just ten days before she disappeared indicates a sole of about the same length as the one we found on the island.

The other assessment of the size of the shoe found by Gallagher comes from the story ex-Coastguardsman Floyd Kilts told to a San Diego newspaper in 1960. According to Kilts, he was told by a native that there were shoes (plural) "Woman's shoes, American kind.  No native wears shoes.  Couldn't if they wanted to - feet too spread out and flat.  The shoes were size nine narrow." No information was offered as to how the shoe size and width was known.  What we're getting from Kilts is an island story that was at least six years old when he heard it in 1946 and it was another 14 years before he told it to the newspaper reporter in 1960.  I think that all we can say is that the version that Kilts tells is similar to, but not exactly like, Gallagher's report at the time.  Gallagher is clearly a "better" source but there may be details in Kilts' version which are true.  The trick is, figuring out what is distortion through the folklore process and what is a genuine surviving detail.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:11:59 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Re: Earhart's radios

> Regarding the issue of 750 meters vs. 7500 Kc (now KHz = Kilohertz):

Agree that wave length was not a pilot term.  All of the old (or newer) aircraft receivers I have seen were calibrated in kcs; (khz).

As for df on 7500 kc   ..... Regardless of what was usual or how well her loop worked on 7500kc., there was a s.p.s.t. knife switch in the schematic that switched the receiver from 'antenna' to loop.  (It would seem reasonable that at least the hf bands on her rcvr. used the dorsal V antenna but that has not been documented.  It is also immaterial to this particular discussion)

Since ''unable to get a min'', clearly referred to using the loop on 7500kc and it was the only time in the entire flight that there is a record of her having heard something on the radio, we know the band containing 7500 kc on her recvr. worked!   That is the real story.  Now then why did she not hear, prior to changing the receiver input to loop?  It would appear that for whatever reason an antenna was NOT connected to her receiver when the knife switch was in the (normal) antenna position. T/R (relay) contacts?   Wire from T/R to knife switch?   RC #941
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:02:33 EDT
From:         Bruce Yoho
Subject:      Love to Mother poll

I vote for #3, Keeping in mind the meaning of LTM by the Tighar group, one would tend to use it to let all know that the researcher has given thought to what has been sent to be, on the subject, useful, accurate as possible, and as factual as the evidence allows.

I try not to use it when sending, suggestions, anecdotal information, or questions.

Bruce
**************************************************************
From Bob Williams

My vote in the LTM Poll; Only for members.

Love to Mother,

Bob
***************************************************************
From Gene Dangelo

Regarding the LTM poll, even though I myself expect to officially join TIGHAR very shortly, and have never used the LTM signoff myself as yet, I vote that all forum participants be eligible to do so. My reasoning behind that decision is thus: implied in a forum such as this is a certain unity of purpose, and it would therefore seem to me that a group-specific device such as the LTM signoff should serve to unify the group, rather than divide it into any kind of rankings, castes, or factions. Though a healthy diversity of opinions is presented daily via the forum postings, a common interest prevails!  Those noble souls who have thus far done the vast majority of the legwork and other work know already that their inestimable contributions stand on their merit, and are revered by anyone who understands serious research. Don't let something as trivial as a letter closing become an occasion for division of what has been, heretofore, a wonderful joint undertaking. Rather, use it to unify all those interested and to attract others!
---The soapbox is now free; Next!
---Thank you for this opportunity, Dr. Eugene M. Dangelo, N3XKS

***************************************************************
From Dustymiss,

I would ask that those who have not yet been able to contribute significantly to this forum, but believe it is a wonderful and important group should not be left out in using the battle cry "esoteric closing" - Love to Mother -

At one point in a reply to a query you said "The people will find Amelia". In my mind that is a much stronger saying than Love to Mother. Of course, it's longer to write.

And if a non-member of TIGHAR would use "LTM" in a fit of pride or excitement and they have not been granted the official vote to use it - what ramifications would there be?

And what about me - I'm trying to look for the identity of the can label - having gotten the list of all the canning companies from the Thomas Register of 1937 and am looking for a similar publication that will list growers or produce companies - and am still searching in antique stores, as well as talking to people at the National Produce Association - as yet without luck - But without anything concrete I have been silent - does that preclude me from using Love to Mother though I've spent about 10 hours on label research so far?

And if you do restrict the use of love to Mother on line - what will be next? - what about all those teeshirts you have just sold to poor souls like me.  I have bought 2 teeshirts (which I have yet to receive - I am waiting excitedly) with red Love to Mother on it - does that mean I cannot wear the shirt? (Tongue implanted deeply in cheek - of course)

Keep up the good work -  Love to Mother - Dusty

By the way - has anyone actually gotten to the Miami Pan Am Archives?  I do not recall. I have been speaking to the archivist down there and am most probably going down to Miami in the next couple weeks and can do some research. Please let me know if this avenue has already produced no results.
**************************************************************

From Ric

Yeeeowch!  I hear ya Dusty.  As I think you once said to me, "I am well rebuked."

Confession:  We waited until we saw if anybody would actually order the shirts before we put in the order to have them made.  What we really don't need right now is several hundred dollars worth of T-shirts sitting around in boxes. Orders were a bit slow at first but they've picked up and the shirts are in process.  Thanks for your patience.

Randy Jacobson spent several days with the Pan Am archives at the University of Miami.  I'll let him provide whatever advice he has for further research.
***************************************************************
From Skeet Gifford,

Will TIGHAR become elitist? Will protocol require new members salute a "CE", or will a simple bow or curtsey suffice?

IMHO, the question should never have been asked.

TIGHAR 1371C (Did I over react?)

Capt. R. B. (Skeet) Gifford (Ret.)
***************************************************************
From Ric

<<(Did I over react?)>>

No Skeet, I did.  For those of us who have worked so hard for so long to bring some rational thought and scientific method to the Earhart case,  it's easy (and, I think, justified) to feel special.  The danger is that we can also start to feel superior or elitist.  If we do that, we not only kid ourselves about our own abilities but, worse, we shut out those who want to join us and contribute their knowledge. expertise, and resources to this very-much unfinished work.

As with any email forum, the vast majority of subscribers (we now have about 375) sit back and read and think and say nothing unless and until they have something meaningful to contribute.  We can't even guess at the powerhouse of resources represented by the silent members of this forum.  Are we going to tell them that they can't share our Love to Mother reminder to preserve our objectivity?

I agree with Skeet. It would have been best if the question never had to be asked, but I do think that the exercise has helped us see more clearly that, indeed, "the people will find Amelia" and we must reach out all we can for as much help as we can get.

So use Love to Mother or LTM anytime you want, whoever you are - and we'll all see it as a compliment and an expression of your willingness to join with us to complete the work and conclusively solve the Earhart mystery.

Love to Mother,
Ric 
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:24:00 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      The Wreck Photo

I have been looking at the wreck photo in the last issue of Tighar Tracks and would like to add some comments:

1.  The note that the spacing between the bulkheads appears the same despite the Electra having un-equal spacing - I have modeled the distances between bulkheads on 3D CAD using concentric circles to represent the bulkheads and to an approximate scale.  What I have found is that it is possible to have the bulkheads appear to be uniformly spaced at certain angles.

2. the way the wreckage is placed suggests to me that the nose section has broken away from the rest of the body.  The rest of the body may have just slid backwards out side of the view of the photo.  It would be unlikely that the nose and the wings were broken up by forces of nature elsewhere and deposited in the position they sit because it would be a huge coincidence for the nose to end up back between the engine mounts so precisely.

Regards

David Kelly
**************************************************************
From Ric

>What I have found is that it is possible to have the bulkheads appear to be
>uniformly spaced at certain angles.

Verrry interesting.

>...the way the wreckage is placed suggests to me that the nose section has
>broken away from the rest of the body. 

Looks to me like the skins of the belly are still intact enough for the nose section to remain with the immensely strong center section.  The thing to understand about the Lockheed 10 is that it's built around an incredibly massive "main beam" which spans from engine to engine and looks like a spare part for the Brooklyn Bridge.  The belly skins in the center section are .040 inch thick, whereas the rest of the airplane is made from .032 and .025 Alclad.  It has been said of the Electra that everything else on the airplane is just a fairing around the center section.

Now imagine this thing gets pounded by heavy surf.  The tail and outer wing panels are probably the first to go.  Water rolls into and through the cabin with tremendous force and literally blows it apart.  As the airplane is swept across the surface of the reef-flat, maybe the right engine snags and is ripped from its mounts.  What is left - the indestructible center section and the dangling nose section - are washed up into the tree line.  How did the left engine survive almost undamaged?  How does a tornado destroy one car and leave the one parked beside it untouched?  Something like this is a study in chaos theory.

Mind you, I ain't a-sayin' that the Wreck Photo is Amelia's airplane on Niku. I just haven't seen anything yet that says it can't be.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:34:05 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Life on Gardner Island

I never get "Sick" of hearing old stories.  I listened to my Dad's "War stories" about the Flying Tigers of Burma all my life and only wish I could listen again.  Alas, now he is telling them to Gen Chennault in person.  I'll read anything you post.  You never know what might turn up.

Maybe this Reunion would be a source of "Then" pictures.  Might yield something...never know...

**************************************************************

From Ric

We're thinking about sending an "oral history" team to the reunion.

Dick, could you provide some details of where and when the reunion is to be held?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:35:26 EDT
From:         Amanda Dunham
Subject:      Re: Life on Gardner Island

Your recollections help us landlubbing city dwellers picture Gardner/Niku. I've been wondering:  Was there a time of year when it cooled off, even a little?

Amanda Dunham
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:36:59 EDT
From:         Chester Baird
Subject:      BP sponsorship and AE religion

Do not know if it means much but according to Van's Aircraft, a story at
http://www.vansaircraft.com/sections/spe-jon.htm
tells that BP provided aviation fuel for and aviation event.  If they will help with this or not I have no idea.  Even though I am a contract employee at BP (Alaska), I can not find anyone here that knows anything about sponsorship of programs such as this. The other thought I had was, does anyone know what religious faith AE practiced?  That might be another avenue of sponsorship. If anyone else has already offered these thoughts, I apologize for taking
time away from other endeavors. 
Love to Mother
Chester
#2160
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:54:19 EDT
From:         WJK
Subject:      TIGHAR at Oshkosh?

Regarding expanding membership, soliciting donations and exchanging ideas I would think that TIGHAR should have an exhibit booth at the annual EAA convention in Oshkosh, WI.

It would certainly seams to be an appropriate venue, and with an estimated 800,000 show attendees it would seam a logical place to get the word out and funds in.

My wife and I have attended "EAA Oshkosh" every year since 1994 and I've seen a few "concept exhibitors" that couldn't hold a candle to TIGHAR regarding aviation pertinence, but who received tremendous exposure and an apparent infusion of money in order to support their pet project.

**************************************************************
From Ric

Before I comment on this suggestion I want to emphasize that I wholeheartedly encourage these ideas.  We've tried a lot of things and some have worked and some haven't.  I need your help and I don't want to shoot down ideas.  At the same time, we need to learn from experience.

We had a booth at Oshkosh in 1985.  We paid $1,000 for it.  Lots of people stopped by.  We sold a few T-shirts and a few memberships but not nearly enough to cover the expense of the booth and the travel.  The problem was that people would read the placards and maps we had posted to describe our projects.  Then they'd have questions and I would talk to them for 20 minutes or half an hour.  Then, most of the time, they'd thank me for an interesting conversation and walk away.  One on one is just not a very efficient way to reach people with a product (membership in TIGHAR) that takes as much explaining as ours does.  People buy a T-shirt with a P-51 on it because they already know that they like P-51s.  Selling TIGHAR is a bit more complicated.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:03:08 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Re: LTM poll

Love To Mother?  Well, as a good bureaucrat I say it should be an acronym followed by a number.  L.T.M. . . . ell-tee-em . . . hmmmm. How about:

Listed TIGHAR Member
Licensed TIGHAR Member
Lots To Memorize
Lockheeds (or Lougheads, if you are a purist) That are Missing
Languishing in The Mediterranean (oops, wrong body of water)
Languishing in The Marsh

Well, y'all get the idea, right?  We can use the acronym followed by our TIGHAR number, kind of like a secret club or something. Whatta ya say, gang?

Are we accepting applications for an expansion of the acronym LTM??

LTM zero-one-something-something (I forgot it)
***************************************************************

From Ric

Re LTM, see my earlier post.

Re Dennis McGee
Your member number is 0149.  You've forgotten it because we issued it to you in 1924.

For the rest of the forum:
Dennis, although new to the forum, is an ancient TIGHAR whose battle honors include the search for the White Bird in the hills of Downeast Maine.  He was a smartass back then too.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:54:20 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Re: Love to Mother poll

I welcome the LTM decision and suggest that the background regarding it be periodically posted and/or sent to all new Forum members so its symbolism doesn't dissipate.

blue skies & LTM, jham
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 07:58:43 EDT
From:         Amanda Dunham
Subject:      Re: Shoe sizes & Gallagher

My dainty feet are ordinarily an American size 8 M.  But during an arthritis flare, the left foot balloons up to a 9 EEE.  Excruciating fact, not speculation.  (And also the annoying reason why medical bills keep postponing my TIGHAR membership!)

I do not mention this as a cheap ploy for sympathy and attention (that's just gravy).  I'd like to point out that if Amelia wore shoes a size or two longer, those shoes were most likely a wider width, too.  This is assuming the swollen feet premise.

Which brings me to this possibility:  that Gallagher guessed he was looking at a size 10 ladies shoe because of the wider width.  The wider proportion of the fragment *might have looked to him* like part of a longer shoe, if he was assuming a standard M width.

Yep, speculation upon speculation; but I hope it's food for thought.

As for proving the swollen feet theory - I'm reading as fast as I can! Hey, it's a great chance to put my feet up...

LTM,
Amanda Dunham

PS:  Remind me never to be so famous that people obsess about my shoe size when I'm gone...
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:01:02 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Notes from the PanAm archives in Miami

This is a reposting of a message I sent on May 15, regarding the PAA Archives in Miami, as requested by a forum member.  Hope it helps!

What follows are notes and comments from a visit to the University of Miami Special Archives Collection, containing the Pan American Air archives.  Facts will be in regular print, quotes from documents in quotations, and my comments/speculations in square brackets [].

First, the PAA archives is the largest collection that the Special Collection at UofM has, well over 600 boxes (typical size: xerox box size containing 10 reams of paper).  There is an index to the archives, usually listing the contents of each box by folder, which contains some indication of their contents.  PAA had some internal filing system, but I could not decipher it nor did I find a filing manual.  Most of the material is not well organized [actually poorly organized and filed, but that is not the fault of the staff at UofM---they kept things as they received them], and is scattered among all the boxes.  Material ranges in dates from 1927 through the 1980's.  [Another researcher there said that these were the material from the PAA PR department, which may explain why I did not see a lot of internal memoranda or organizational stuff].

Be prepared to spend time and money at Miami.  I spent nearly three full days examining 77 boxes.  It costs $5/day to enter the Richter Library, $20/week.  The UofM is a private institution, and can get away with charging entrance fees.  Parking just outside the library [nowhere else to park, apparently] is $.50/hour.  Hours of operation are 9AM to 4PM.  The staff is extremely friendly, helpful, and willing to go out of its way to work with you.  The staff was one of the best I have encountered.  Copying charges are $.15/page, and they reference the files for you.

My purpose was to scout the PAA material for information regarding Fred Noonan, particularly dates of employment, age, middle name, etc.  During my perusal of material, it became clear that I may well have pulled wrong material and not have pulled the right material, due to the changing PAA organizational structure early on.  My recommendations are to first do a casual search through the archives, then dig deeper once the researcher has a better feeling for what to search for.

Specific facts regarding FJN:

The first mention of FJN is in the PAAWays magazine, the internal newsletter for employees.  In the issue dated Oct. 8, 1930, Noonan was transferred from Miami to Port au Prince to become Field Manager there.  [Field Manager is a step below the Station Manager, and as best as I could decipher, the position was strictly one of ground personnel, preparing paperwork, meteorological forecasts, helping passengers, mail, luggage, making sure the field was in shape, etc.] Port au Prince station began on 9 Jan 29.

June, 1932: "Friends of Mr. and Mrs. J. F. Noonan [sic] are glad to welcome them recently when they came to Miami for a vacation.  After a long stay in the islands, they were glad to get back to the States for a while.  Mr. Noonan is Airport Manager at Port au Prince"

March, 1933: W. G. Eldridge assigned Airport Manager at Port au Prince. [Hmm?what happened to Noonan?]

April, 1934: "Asst. Airport Manager Fred J. Noonan made an inspection trip to Santiago, Cuba during April." [Hmm?he got demoted it seems]

May/June, 1934: "Former Navy ace, Al Williams, sent a box of corn cob pipes to Fred J. Noonan after his trip from Miami to Port au Prince"

March 22-23, 1935: Noonan was navigator of PAA Clipper, NR823M over the Atlantic, test flight [In what follows, unless noted, Noonan is navigator]

March 27: Navigator on flight to Acapulco

3/29: in San Diego

3/30: San Diego to San Pedro and return

3/31: San Diego to San Francisco/Alameda

4/5 Alameda to Trinidad Head and return/test flight

4/9 to Los Angeles and return

4/10 to sea and return

4/15 to sea and return

4/16 Alameda to Honolulu on first transpacific clipper flight.  During this flight, he took 1 LOP on the sun, 1 LOP on Polaris, 4 star fixes, 48 RDF's, and 336 data notations [I do not think he took the RDF's, but used them for navigational purposes.  The number of fixes matches well with the first AE flight which we have maps for showing Noonan's navigational skills]

4/19: Honolulu to sea and back

4/22: Honolulu to Alameda.  Here, Noonan took 5 sun LOP's, 6 star fixes, 48 RDF's, and 364 data notations.

5/15: Alameda to Farallons and return

5/18: Alameda to sea to test drift bombs [these are wind drift bombs using aluminum powder.  No notations as to who was aboard this flight]

5/21: Alameda to sea to test drift bombs

5/29: Alameda to sea and return

6/1: Same

6/3: Same

6/8: Same

6/9: Same

6/12-13: Alameda to Honolulu

6/15: Honolulu to Midway

6/17: Midway to Honolulu

6/21-22: Honolulu to Alameda

7/15: Alameda to sea and return

7/17: Same.  Noonan now navigational instructor

7/23: Same.  Noonan navigator

7/24: Alameda to San Diego

7/25: San Diego to San Pedro to Alameda

7/27: Alameda to sea and return; Noonan Navigational instructor

8/1: Same; Same

8/2: Same, Same

8/5: Same, Same

8/9-10: Alameda to Honolulu, Noonan navigator

8/13: Honolulu to Midway

8/16-17: Midway to Wake

8/21: Wake to Midway

8/22: Midway to Honolulu

8/28-29: Honolulu to Alameda

9/26: Alameda to sea and return

9/27: Same

9/30: Same, but Noonan not on flight

10/1: Same, Same

10/4: Same, Noonan navigator

10/5-6: Alameda to Honolulu

10/10: Honolulu to Midway

10/11: Midway to Wake

10/13: Wake to Guam

10/16: Guam to Wake

10/18: Wake to Midway

10/19: Midway to Honolulu

10/24: Honolulu to Alameda

11/7: Alameda to sea and return; Noonan not aboard

11/13: Same, Noonan instructor

11/14: Same, Same

11/25: Same, Noonan not aboard

On China Clipper, NC14716:

12/2-6/35: Manila to Alameda [log book of China Clipper missing early entries of Alameda outbound]

12/19: Alameda to sea and return

12/22: Alameda to Honolulu

12/23: Honolulu to Alameda

12/26: Alameda to sea and return

12/26: Same

12/27: Same

1/5/36: Alameda to Honolulu flight aboard Philippine Clipper:

1/12: Alameda to sea; Noonan fifth officer [at about this point, the navigational position reverted to officer positions in log books]

1/27: Same; same

1/29: Same; same

Back to China Clipper:

2/7: Alameda to sea and return

2/13: Alameda to Honolulu aborted

2/16: Alameda tests

2/22-3/9: Alameda to Manila and return

3/18-19: Alameda to Honolulu.  Noonan gets off flight and another navigator continues to Manila and returns to Honolulu.  [Apparently, Noonan takes planned vacation, as normally there would not be a relief navigator in Hawaii]

4/3-4: Noonan reboards plane as navigator, Honolulu to Alameda

4/12: Alameda tests

4/17-30: Alameda to Manila and return

6/28: Alameda tests

Hawaiian Clipper:

7/27: Alameda tests

7/29-8/11: Alameda to Manila and return

On China Clipper:

8/24: Alameda tests

8/26-9/11: Alameda to Manila and return

On Hawaiian Clipper:

1020: Navigational instructor: Alameda tests

10/21-11/4: Alameda to Manila and return

On Philippine Clipper:

11/21: 5th officer, Alameda tests

11/22-12/7: Alameda to Manila and return.  Noonan navigator March, 1937: "Frederick Noonan, formerly navigation instructor in the Pacific Division, who made many of the early pioneering flights across the Pacific while that ocean airway was in course of organization, and who is now retired, was engaged to serve as Miss Earhart's navigator to Howland Island in mid-Pacific"

The last entry I could find for Noonan being a part of PAA: December 7, 1936.

Musick and FJN were assigned temporarily to Alameda base in early 1935, although they might be returned to company duty at Miami later [dated May/June, 1935??]

[There are a few anecdotes about Noonan and Musick.  Musick was always worried about Fred's inability to show up before events, and the first words out of his mouth were Has anyone seen Fred?  It got so bad, that Musick roomed with FJN so that he could keep better tabs on him.  A great story was told that one of the Clippers was ready to leave, but FJN was nowhere to be found.  A taxi rushes onto the dock, FJN gets out, and while walking to the plane, walks off the dock, becoming drenched.  When asked, FJN said there was a shadow that looked like the dock.  Rafford was an employee of PAA, as was Donohue, and they wrote a book on AE and FN that is probably one of the worst around.  Rafford states that PAA fired FJN because of alcoholism, and that he carried a huge briefcase with him aboard, and often went back to the lavatory with his suitcase.  The obvious implication is that it was filled with alcohol.  Other old-times mentioned that FJN was full of cheer, but that his alcohol habits did not affect his work.]

A PAA old-time navigator/officer, Canady, suggested in a speech in the [50's] that implies that FJN resigned from PAA to accompany AE. 

There are numerous photos of FJN, almost all with the rest of the Clipper crew.  One sole photograph not previously seen before was of him working over the navigational bench plotting up fixes.  There is a manual nearby, but I could not readily determine what it was.  I have ordered a copy of this photo, and will forward it to TIGHAR.

Noonan wrote a press release [upon arrival in Manila], and I marked it for copying but it somehow never got copied.  I do not have a reference location for it.  [Drats!  I have a copy of another document that I did not ask for: box 118 Planes - Martin Clipper M-130, 1934-1965 which I think is the right reference.]

Miscellaneous Notes:

The S-42 Clippers did have RDF's aboard, and there is good information on the PAA RDFs at Honolulu, Wake, and Midway, along with the rest of their radio equipment.  There is some general information about navigational procedures [copied], and a 7 page draft of "Making the Landfall" by FJN , dated 10/3/35 for Trans-Pacific Air Navigation [?].  In it, he refers to navigational accuracy of 10 minutes, but in this case it is in time relative to predicted fly-over of Matson ships relative to actual overflights.  I will forward a copy of this document to TIGHAR for their reference.  There exists the original log books of the four original clippers, along with two books of Eddie Musick's scrapbooks, which contain mostly newspaper clippings.  I found a photo of the first Mrs. Noonan in one of them.

I did not find any information as to FJN's middle initial, his age, place of birth, when employed by PAA, etc.  I did not find the original PAA station logs for AE's disappearance, but did find a press release stating that the secretary for Angus kept the carbons for herself, and Joe Klaas and Joseph Gervais [sigh] did get copies.

The biggest mistake I made was not looking in the Alaska Division, which was re-organized into the Pacific Division early in 1935, and may contain  more information on Noonan and his re-assignment to Alameda.  This mistake was caused by not understanding enough of the early PAA organizational structures, and is provided to future researchers.

The big question I have is how did a member of the ground personnel in Port au Prince, which was clearly a low-level airport, suddenly find himself within 9 months of navigating the class act of the company?  [We suspect that FJN had good navigational skills from his time as a mariner, yet that was at least five years previously and probably a good deal more.  Once navigator, it was clear that he was instructing others on the job.  I found no information as to classroom training.]

PAA's flight structure was such that each pilot/officer was knowledgeable and cross-trained in all aspects of flying, including navigation.  Navigators were only used on the Clippers, and as time progressed, that function usually was taken up by a junior officer, and not a devoted navigator.  [Based upon the level of navigational fixes needed, any one of the four or five officers could perform that routine duty, typically once every two hours or so.  I suspect PAA went to this system to save on personnel costs. Nevertheless, FJN was quite active in cross-Pacific navigation until December, 1936.]  Noonan's time aboard ship was noted as unusual: he never took a rest period, whereas all other crew members did.  [This suggests to me a strong dedication to his work, and somewhat of an unwillingness to let others do his work.]
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:14:49 EDT
From:         Mac Fluery
Subject:      Re: radio jargon

Ric and Randy

FL, presently is used for Flight Level; the others, I will think a little before an answer.
                                                Rgds, Mac
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:35:14 EDT
From:         Dick Polley
Subject:      CG on Gardner

To Chuck Boyle

So glad to hear from you after all these months. I'm so sorry that I was so uninformed about the make-up of Atafu. I really never had much information about that island. I knew that Baker was a rock with little or no vegetation and that was about it as far as the makeup of the chain was concerned.

You were very fortunate in having natives that you could socialize with. At least it wasn't as boring as being on Gardner. Sopko wouldn't let us go anywhere off the site.

Ric said that Dick Evans will be on-line in a few weeks so that should be interesting!

Dick Polley

***************************************************************
From Ric

Dick, in your opinion could there have been a body of airplane wreckage in the bushes somewhere on the island and no one at the Loran station know or hear anything about it?
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:45:24 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Radio Jargon

I thought I had a fairly complete list of the Z-signals; but unfortunately what I have only covers those used by the U.S. Army and does not include Z-signals used in airways communications.  I did some looking into this on the internet and found the following reference:

(Book title)
"Radiotelegraph and Radiotelephone Codes, Prowords and Abbreviations" compiled by J.W. Alcorn.  ISBN 1 86384 424 1

This book is in its second edition; unfortunately it is currently unavailable from the publisher.  Try contacting the author:

Mr. J.W. Alcorn
33 Spring Street Lismore, NSW., 2480
AUSTRALIA
E-mail:  jalcorn@nor.com.au <mailto:jalcorn@nor.com.au>
Phone/fax (02)66215217 -  International - +61-02-66215127

I found this listed on a web site for the Summerland Amateur Radio Club, Australia, at www.nor.com.au/community/sarc/phonetic.htm

The information about the book stated that it would be unavailable after 2-20-98 "until further notice" and gave an alternative source-which I checked, but they don't have any more copies.  Maybe it will reappear soon. Sounds like something we can really use.

This book also contains a list of the X-signals, which were used by the British and Australian forces; as well as standard abbreviations used in C-W (Morse code) message traffic.

Surely someone out there has old US Navy, USCG, CAA Airways Communication handbooks or from the Merchant Marine.  These should contain complete lists of Q-signals and  Z-signals.  Two U.S. Army manuals to reference are FM  24-12 and FM 24-13 and TM 11-454, but what is there is not a complete list.  Trouble is, the military did not generally use the same "blocks" of Q- and Z-signals that would have been common in the Merchant Marine or on the civilian airways.  However, their operators would have had access to complete lists as reference material in case they encountered something they didn't hear on a daily basis.

Some guys who were airborne radio operators in WW2 may still have copies of their old signal books.  Every operator carried one with him on every flight.  It would have been impossible to remember ALL these signals.  I am trying to run down one of these.

Q-signals and Z-signals are standard codes used to speed up radiotelegraph  transmissions.  They are a set of standard question-and-answer items.

As general information to illustrate usage of signal codes::  If a Q-signal or Z-signal is preceded by the prosign INT (dit-dit-dah-dit-dah, sent as one signal and not individual letters) this means it is intended as a question. The same is true if the signal is followed by a question mark (dit-dit-dah-dah-dit-dit).   For example:  INT ZKJ means, "May I close down my station?"   If  INT ZKJ is followed by numbers such as 1630Z, this means, "May I close down until 1630 hours Zulu time same as GMT)?"   (ZKJ? Would mean the same; as would ZKJ 1630Z?")  As a reply, ZKJ means  "you may close down."  ZKJ 1630Z of course means, "You may close down until 1630Z."

Also try a book called "The Phillips Code" which was published by the Vibroplex Co. (mfr of semiautomatic "bug" keys) as late as the 1960-1975 era.  I am trying to find one of these too; thought I had it!  By the way, this book is probably out of print as well.

Incredible, isn't it, that as technology changes, how rapidly knowledge fades away.

Some of you who have knowledge, and schematic diagrams, of the radio systems in the Electra:  I'd like to talk with you.  A couple of things posted recently regarding the receiver, the loop antenna, and the method of antenna switching seem a bit strange to me, based on my experience with airborne DF equipment.  Could I look at what you have, somehow?

73      CUL  GL  AR
Mike
**************************************************************

From Ric

Mike, your input on this subject is most welcome.  The principal questions we've been struggling with are:

1.  Is there any logical explanation for why AE should have asked Itasca for signals on 7500 kcs when she wanted to try to use her own DF?

2.  How many radios were aboard the airplane?  The available documentation describes only a Western Electric 13C transmitter in the cabin (with crystals for 3105 kc, 6210 kc and 500 kc), and a Western Electric 20B "all-wave" fourband receiver under the co-pilot's seat.

3.  What were the purposes of the airplane's three antennas - a dorsal vee, a single ventral wire, and what appears to be a Bendix MN-5 manually rotatable loop over the cockpit.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:56:14 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      David Kelly's "The Wreck Photo"

I was very interested in David Kelly's latest forum posting on the wreck photo. As you know I also have spent some considerable time studying the photo print you were good enough to send me. Please would you forward the following to Dave (I don't have his e-mail address)

Thanks Ric.
Simon Ellwood

David:

I was very interested in your latest TIGHAR forum posting concerning the "Wreck Photo". I too have spent considerable time studying the photo. The 3D CAD modeling of the nose was an excellent idea, I'd be very interested to see this drawing - is it AutoCAD format or something similar? Have you found that the nose angle at which the bulkheads seem to be equally spaced is approximately the viewing angle seen in the photo ?

If you'd like to discuss ideas about the Wreck Photo off-forum, please e-mail me direct. Thanks

Simon Ellwood
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 14:46:40 EDT
From:         Chester Baird
Subject:      Radio jargon books

I will attempt to communicate with some of the book locators and if they will not donate their time or the book, I'll check the price and probably purchase them and donate them. If any one else has tried this, let me know

LTM

Chester
*************************************************************

From Ric

That's very generous of you Chester.  Thank you.  If you do end up buying and donating books to TIGHAR, remember that the cost is tax deductible.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:05:44 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      History 101 - Jacobson

Ric: you might want to post this on the forum to stimulate some discussion:

WHAT IS HISTORY?

History is the lie commonly agreed upon. (Voltaire)

Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past. (George Orwell)

History is more or less bunk. (Henry Ford)

History: An account, mostly false, of events, mostly unimportant, which are brought about by rulers, mostly knaves, and soldiers, mostly fools. (Ambrose Bierce)

History could be divided into events which do not matter and events which probably never occurred. (W.R. Inge)

History is only a confused heap of facts. (G.K. Chesterton)

History is Philosophy teaching by examples. (Thucydides)

Not to know what has been transacted in former times is to continue always a child. (Cicero)

The first lesson of history is the good of evil. (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

History does not repeat itself except in the minds of those who do not know history. (Kahlil Gibran)

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. (Santayana)

History is the intellectual form in which a civilization renders account to itself of its past. (Johann Huizinga)

A nation which does not know what it was yesterday, does not know what it is today, nor what it is trying to do. (Woodrow Wilson)

To study history means submitting to chaos and nevertheless retaining faith in order and meaning. It is a very serious task, ... and possibly a tragic one. (Hermann Hesse)

History is a people's memory, and without memory man is demoted to the lower animals. (Malcolm X)

Peoples and governments have never learned anything from history, or acted on principles deducible from it. (G.W.F. Hegel)

History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives. (Abba Eban)

Our ignorance of history makes us libel our own times. People have always been like this. (Gustave Flaubert)

Universal history, the history of what man has accomplished in this world, is at bottom the history of the Great Men who have worked here. (Thomas Carlyle)

If a man could say nothing against a character but what he can prove, history could not be written. (Samuel Johnson)

History is indeed the witness of the times, the light of truth. (Cicero)

History is the "know thyself" of humanity -- the self-consciousness of mankind. (Droysen)

The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles. (Karl Marx)

History is a science, no less and no more. (J.B. Bury)

History is past politics and politics present history. (E.A. Freeman)

We teach history only when it can be made into an entertaining anecdote, a procedure which is about as sound as leaving the teaching of sexual hygiene to a commercial traveller. (Aubrey Maran)

Fiction is history, human history, or it is nothing. (Joseph Conrad)

History, real solemn history, I cannot be interested in. . . .The quarrels of popes and kings, with wars and pestilences in every page; the men all so good for nothing, and hardly any women at all. (Jane Austen)

The historian can learn much from the novelist. (Samuel Eliot Morison)

History is an argument without end. (Peter Geyl)

Anybody can make history; only a great man can write it. (Oscar Wilde)

History is simply a piece of paper covered with print; the main thing is still to make history, not to write it. (Otto von Bismarck)

No single man makes history. History cannot be seen just as one cannot see grass growing. (Boris Pasternak)

Historical knowledge is not a variety of knowledge, but it is knowledge itself; it is the form which completely fills and exhausts the field of knowing. (Benedetto Croce)

Genuine historical knowledge requires nobility of character, a profound understanding of human existence -- not detachment and objectivity. (Friedrich Nietzsche)

It has been said that although God cannot alter the past, historians can. It is perhaps because they can be useful to him in this respect that he tolerates their existence. (Samuel Butler)

It is not the literal past, the "facts" of history, that shape us, but images of the past embodied in language. (Brian Friel)

History and myth are two aspects of a kind of grand pattern in human destiny: history is the mass of observable or recorded fact, but myth is the abstract or essence of it. (Robertson Davies)

All statements about the past can be considered as very crude ways of expressing possible, hypothetical judgments about future experiences. (Pardon Tillinghast)

Historical knowledge is the knowledge of what mind has done in the past, and at the same time it is the redoing of this, the perpetuation of past acts in the present. (R.G. Collingwood)

Nothing capable of being memorized is history. (R.G. Collingwood)

History... is a tool we use each generation or each year to help get along in the world, discarding the old tool for a new one whenever necessary. (Paul K. Conkin)

History is a damn dim candle over a damn dark abyss. (W.S. Holt)

Dr. Randy Jacobson
***************************************************************
From Ric

Jeesh.  I just thought it would be kinda neat to find Amelia Earhart.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:05:58 EDT
From:         Kris Tague
Subject:      Life on Gardner

For Dick Polley -

Thanks for posting a little about your experiences. I'd be quite happy if you gave us a story every day !

power to the people :)

Kris
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:10:07 EDT
From:         Dick Polley
Subject:      A plane wreck on Gardner?

In my opinion there very well could have been a plane wreck in the dense vegetation on the island at the time I was there. As I recall the area that we actually saw while going to and from the village it was quite dense and overgrown. I don't believe any on the station would have heard anything about any plane crash or anything else about it due to the restrictive nature of our existence at the time. I can remember a time when a couple of us were going down to the lagoon for a swim and it was almost dark. We had to go right past Sopko's hut to get to the dock where we went swimming. This one evening as we went past the hut we heard Sopko shout "Halt, who goes there?", well we wondered who in hell he thought was going there!! That was the kind of crap we were subjected to all the time out there so you see there wasn't much room for exploring.

Keep in touch
Dick Polley
***************************************************************

From Ric

That pretty well matches what I've heard from Dick Evans and Herb Moffit.  The only Unit 92 veteran we've talked to who says he did quite a bit of exploring is Ernie Zehms.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:02:32 EDT
From:         Chester Baird
Subject:      Re: radio jargon

I do not know if Mike E. is aware of this site or not.  It may save me the cost of  a book. If not give Mike E. my e mail address and he and I can get together.

I am not a radio specialist.  My job has me searching the net and publications all day long and I am getting better at finding things. If you need help finding items or articles other than this let me know.

PS  I do not want to go to Niku.  It is too hot and work is what I spend a lot of time trying to avoid.

http://www.royalsignals.army.org.uk/museum/

LTM
Chester
#2160
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:09:02 EDT
From:         Jim Kelly
Subject:      Vacumatics

The term vacumatic (or the earlier term, vacuum filler) referred to the method of filling the pen. Parker made a pen in WW1 called the "trench filler" which used ink made from a powder and water, and was mixed in the cap and thereby "portable" enough to use in the trenches. So they say. Any how this was a big innovation in pens. Early fountain pens actually came with eyedropper type devices for filling them. The Vacumatic had a vacuum system; later ones had a lever on the side. To fill the pen, put the nib in ink and pull the lever. This was considered another breakthrough as the previous model used a rubber tube to store the ink that sometimes rotted, giving rise to the blue dress shirt so popular these days. 
LTM
Jim Kelly #2805
(report's in the mail)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:11:43 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Label fragment: Striations

Way back before the conference, Ric said:

>...  While the evidence of corrugations is interesting, the markings on the label
>itself are, I suspect, our best route to a positive ID.

Very true.  The corrugations will not lead to a positive ID.  On the other hand, if the corrugations, evidenced by the striations visible in the label fragment, are telling us that the can could not have been produced as early as 1937, a positive ID will not be very important.  And we'll have to re-think the campfire site.

However, we'll still be curious about how the fragment came to be where it was found. Who was there later and had a campfire, and approximately when was it?  The label may even post-date the Loran station.

In this, I have the advantage of, "been there and done that."  I was there in 1937 and I was cutting up tin cans to make things.  In that time and place, a lot of tin cans got cut up and flattened out to use for various things.  They didn't have corrugations and they didn't have welded side-seams.

But this is just anecdote.  I need corroboration.  I'm working on it but like everything with the Earhart Search, it ain't easy.  It appears major producers of canned goods make their own cans.  I've started with those for whom I could find e-mail addresses.  So far, I've had response from Campbell Soup and Seneca Foods Corp.(Libby's) but no actual information.  Something may yet come of it.

Does anyone have access to some canning operation in their area?  There is no canning in my own area that I've been able to identify.  Maybe you could find someone who had been around long enough to know when various
innovations in canmaking occurred.

To be prepared to ask the right questions, remember that we're concerned with the kind of 1/8 inch spaced corrugations you see on virtually every can in the grocery stores today -- those with paper labels.  Peel off a label and see what the corrugations look like.  I suspect these close-spaced corrugations were not practical until the welded side-seam came into use. That's another thing we should try to date.

If you look at a can from a few years ago, maybe twenty years ago, you may find a crimped-and-soldered side-seam.  There may be a few corrugations (just grooves in this case) that are spaced at least 1/2 an inch apart.  I believe such a can predates the can we are concerned with.

An opportunity to prove I don't know what I'm talking about!  I wish, I wish........
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Jul 1998 08:13:22 EDT
From:         John Dowlan
Subject:      Re: Radio jargon

Mike Everette wrote:

>I thought I had a fairly complete list of the Z-signals; but unfortunately
>what I have only covers those used by the U.S. Army and does not
>include  Z-signals used in airways communications.

For what it may be worth, TIGHAR member Jack Snee - W2BID and former PAN-AM avionics tech, would probably have this info at his finger tips. However, the last I heard he was on vacation and not monitoring this forum. Perhaps he can enlighten us upon return. Just a thought...

John Dowlan

********************************
Jack is on the Forum as of today .... Jack? You out there?

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:24:18 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Radios and jargon

Regarding availability of radio jargon books:

The U.S. Army manuals I cited earlier are of WW2 vintage and likely would nly be available through surplus electronics dealers like Fair Radio Sales Co. of Lima, Ohio, or any one of a number of persons who deal in old military radio manuals.  I will cruise the net for some specifics.  Anyway, the two FMs, 24-12 and 24-13, and TM 11-454 will not likely be found at US Govt Printing Office.

The libraries of many land-grant universities are repositories for U.S. Govt Documents.   Try looking in such places.   Not all libraries have the same documents either, not by a long shot.

I am quite familiar with the documents collection at NC State University. The part dealing with tech manuals, etc. is not very well organized, and finding things takes getting one's own hands on the items in the stacks and SEARCHING.  Often the staff knows very little about what is actually there. I suspect it will prove to be the same in most other such libraries.  Have Fun, folks.

I have not actually seen the following books, but here are some likely handbook/manual numbers to look for.  Maybe somebody out there has these. They may yield useful information pertaining not only to signal communication, but also to equipment.

NAVPERS 10314  Advanced Work in Aircraft Radio
NAVPERS 10312  Aircraft Radio Systems
CAA Flight Information Manual (no date)
CAA Bulletin No. 24  Practical Air Navigation
CAA Bulletin No. 29  Pilot's Radio Manual
ICAO Doc 4478 COM/501  Communication Procedures
ICAO DOC 6100 COM/504 ICAO Q Code

I have had communication from a gentleman in a Morse telegraph association who says he is preparing lists of Q and Z signals to be posted on a web page.  As soon as I find out when and where, I will advise you.

Regarding the radio equipment aboard the Electra:

I would be interested in seeing a schematic diagram of the Western Electric 20A/20B receiver.  I find it rather hard to believe that a pilot would embark on a flight such as this with only one communications receiver aboard.  Surely, she had not only the communications receiver, but a second receiver for navigation purposes.  Remember, if the communications receiver is either tuned to a low-frequency beacon, or has its antenna input switched from the regular antenna to a loop, it will not be available for use in the communications mode!!

I would be willing to bet there was a dedicated receiver aboard for DF purposes.  Such a receiver might be the one which used the ventral antenna for  a "sense" antenna to pick up a signal-reference for use in the DF mode. The primary receiver (let's say it was the WE-20) would  most likely have been connected to the antenna changeover relay in the transmitter, so both equipments could use the same antenna-the dorsal Vee.

If one of the other contributors was correct, in an earlier message, that the receiver aboard (and, for now, assume it was indeed the only one) was connected either to a loop or to a wire antenna via a KNIFE SWITCH - consider the possibilities for major FUBAR. (F___ed Up Beyond All Redemption)!  Suppose whoever was responsible for throwing the switch did not engage it properly, or so loosely that the aircraft vibration worked the connections loose?  Or, forgot which position it was in?  Sounds very Rube Goldberg to me.  Most switching functions would have been done using relays or solenoids; or, a rotary switch operated via a flexible cable and controlled by a knob on the side of the cockpit or the overhead console (if Any)-for you techies, consider the overall layout of the Model RU series radio receivers the US Navy's PBY Catalinas and F4F Wildcats used.

I also find it hard to believe that the loop was connected to a communications receiver which may not have been designed to work with one; that is, a radio without the special "balanced" input circuit needed to "match" a loop antenna.  A wire antenna on an aircraft is "unbalanced" - that is, it is a single-wire connection to the radio.    The other "side" of the radio receiver's input circuit is connected to ground.

A loop is a "balanced" antenna - neither side of the loop is grounded, and the radio has a special ungrounded  input  circuit to match it.  Also, a DF receiver has special circuits to operate an indicator of some kind, to give the pilot or navigator a visual indication of a null or peak in signal strength.  If the loop somehow becomes unbalanced-perhaps due to one "side" of it becoming grounded, as it well may have been if connected to a radio not designed to use one - any bearing you take will  be suspect, for the null will be wide or shallow rather than sharply defined.

I will look into the circuitry of a Bendix MN-5 loop.  I believe this antenna was used with the MN-26 series DF receivers, and I have information on this system.

Does anyone have any info as to who/what company did Amelia's avionics?  Was it a turnkey job by Lockheed?  Did she consult any engineers?  Or did she get a shadetree  mechanic to do it?  Seems to me that she'd want only the best for such a risky venture... but then again she was obsessed with saving weight, right?  That could have led to some bad decisions.

The transmitter had crystals for 3105, 6210, and 500 Kc.  The two high-frequency channels would have been usable for voice or  for C-W...  but any ground or ship station monitoring 500 would have been looking for C-W signals.  And 500 was a very, very busy frequency in those days, full of ship traffic.  If a shipboard operator heard a weak voice signal on that low frequency, he probably would have dismissed it as some kind of interference.

She probably carried 500 Kc because it was the ONLY distress channel in those days.  But, somebody would have had to be able to use a key to communicate with anyone thereon.

More than likely, the transmitter could not possibly have "matched" the short Vee or ventral wire antenna , properly, at 500 Kc without some sort of external tuning unit or loading coil.  If Amelia discarded her trailing wire,  she couldn't have been heard on 500 much further than she could spit....

Are we positive that neither Amelia nor Fred knew Morse?  In those days, all navigation beacons and many lights used Morse to identify themselves.  As a navigator,  Noonan must have at least been able to read it.  And did pilots back then have to pass Morse proficiency tests to get a license?  The military required them to know the code through WW2.

Sorry to take up so much time.  I just thought these questions were worth asking, if they have not been asked before.  If anyone has any tech data I could look at, I really believe I could answer some more questions.

73  CUL  GL   AR
Mike
***************************************************************

From Ric

I'll try to answer some of your questions.

The issue of whether or not there was a separate DF receiver aboard the airplane is an important and a difficult one.  Here are the sources we have and what they say:

1. Lockheed paperwork shows that the initial radio installation (WE transmitter & receiver) was done by Lockheed prior to delivery on July 24, 1936.  At this time the airplane had no DF capability.  In October of 1936 a prototype Bendix Radio Compass installed at Wright Field in Ohio.  Then in late November more work was done at Hadley Field in New Jersey by Bell Labs and Western Electric. A Bureau of Air Commerce Inspection Report dated November 27, 1936 specifies that the radios aboard the airplane are a WE transmitter in the cabin, a WE receiver under the copilot's seat, and a Bendix Radio Compass in the cabin on top of the fuel tank directly behind the copilot.

2. Photos show that some time in late February the faired dome of the Radio Compass was replaced with the open loop we all know and love. In 1982, Fred Hooven - the inventor of the Bendix Radio Compass prototype installed in the Electra - complained that Earhart had replaced his advanced system with "an older, lighter-weight model of much less capability." This would seem to imply that a replacement unit was installed.  At this time the airplane had two belly antennas.

3. When the airplane comes out of repairs at Burbank it has only one belly antenna.  Unfortunately, the BAC inspection report dated May 19, 1937 does not mention the radios. Our only source for what was going on at this time is anecdotal.  It is a long letter written to Earhart conspiracy author Fred Goerner in 1982 by a man named Joseph Gurr who claimed to be Earhart's radio technician.  We'll get it digitized and should have it available for sending out early next week. I'll be very interested to get some expert opinions about what Gurr told Goerner.

4. A Palm Beach (Florida) Post newspaper article dated May 30, 1937 discusses Earhart's preparations in Miami and includes this sentence: "Another aid will be radio direction finder installed by Pan-American
technicians."

5.  In "Last Flight" Earhart relates a newspaper interview she gave in Karachi, during the world flight in which she described her radios.  She says that among the navigational instruments in front of her are " compasses, directional gyros, the Bendix direction finder, and various radio equipment." She also says, "The receiver for the Western Electric radio is under the co- pilot's seat and the transmitter is in the cabin.  The main dynamo is under my seat.  The radio's cuplike microphone is hung beside the window at my left." No mention of a separate DF receiver.

As to Earhart and Noonan's knowledge of Morse code (or lack thereof) the sources leave little room for doubt.   Earhart's preflight communications with the Coast Guard stressed that all communication should be by voice.  New Guinea Superintendent for Aviation James Collopy, who was there for the final takeoff, wrote of Earhart and Noonan a few days later, "Their Morse was very slow and they preferred to use telephony as much as possible."  Eric Chater, General Manager of Guinea Airways, was more specific in his report.  "On enquiry Miss Earhart and Captain Noonan advised that they entirely depended on radio telephone reception as neither of them were able to read Morse at any speed but could recognize an individual letter sent several times."

As soon as possible we'll get the Gurr letter scanned in, OCRed and ready to distribute to any of our radio gurus who want to see it.
Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:15:42 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Spin the prop

As part of an overhaul and upgrade of the TIGHAR website now in the R&D phase, we're toying with the idea of actually starting the starboard engine on that Lockheed 10 you see on the homepage.  We have an experimental version of the graphic up and running on a test site and I'd like to know if it works for everybody on their various web browsers.

If you get chance please go to:

http://www.morningstarinteractive.com/development/tighar

What you should see is the TIGHAR Lockheed 10 and every ten seconds the right engine should start up, then shut down.  When we're sure we have this working right we'll add the wonderful sound of a 1340 coughing to life and settling into a smooth idle.

Let me know how it looks on your system.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:15:52 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Forum News & Reminders

In response to several requests by folks who are terribly interested in the work we're doing here but whose electronic lives just can't handle the volume of email traffic generated by this prolific forum, we'll soon be inaugurating a new feature on the TIGHAR website.  Each weekend we'll compile a selection of the most interesting and informative postings from that week and on Monday morning we'll mount them on the TIGHAR website as "Forum Highlights" or maybe "The Earhart Forum's Greatest Hits", or something equally dumb.  It will provide a way for the rest of the world to keep track of the exciting research that happens here and also let them get a taste of what the forum is like and decide if they might want to join us. (Note: the explanation of Love to Mother will not appear in the Highlights)

I'll also take this opportunity to remind everyone that you can set it up so that you receive the forum postings not as individual messages throughout the day but as a single "digest" once a day.  All you have to do is send an email to:

listserv@home.ease.lsoft.com    (that's the computer that controls the list)

and say:

set earhartforum digest     (Don't say anything else. You'll just confuse the poor thing.)

That should do it.  If you're going on vacation and want to stop receiving forum postings for a while but don't want to sign off the forum just send a message to:

listserv@home.ease.lsoft.com    (same dumb computer)

and say:

set earhartforum nomail    (note that nomail is one word)

When you get back just tell the computer to:

set earhartforum mail

And you'll be back in business.  Unfortunately, if you send the command "set earhartforum sendmoney" you get back a reply that says "unknown command." Bummer.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:16:15 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      The Floyd Kilts Story

No, this is not about a 1956 movie starring Glenn Ford or somebody.  This is a 1960 San Diego Tribune interview with a former Coast Guard carpenter's mate who helped disassemble the Loran station on Gardner Island in 1946.  We learned of the article in 1989 and it was our first introduction to the Legend of the Bones which only became documented fact last summer with the discovery of the Gallagher Papers in Tarawa.

Kilts was long gone by the time we found out about his story.  Fortunately the reporter, Lew Scarr, reproduced what appears to be a verbatim account of what Kilts said.  This, of course, is an anecdote told some 13 years after the event.  Some of the details are not true.  Gallagher was not Irish, but his nickname among his fellow British Colonial Service officers was "Irish."  He did not die of pneumonia in a small boat en route to Fiji.  He died of peritonitis from a burst appendix immediately upon returning to Gardner from Fiji in September 1941 and his grave still stands on the island.  Other details of Kilts' story are true and some others may be true.  It's a classic problem of folklore interpretation and I would appreciate the input of anyone who has experience in this field or from the veterans of the wartime Pacific who have experience with stories told by indigenous people.

So here is The Floyd Kilts Story:
**********************************
A native tried to tell me about it, but I couldn't understand all of it so I got an interpreter.  It seems that in the latter part of 1938 there were 23 island people, all men, and an Irish magistrate planting coconut trees on Gardner for the government of New Zealand.

They were about through and the native was walking along one end of the island.  There in the brush about five feet from the shoreline he saw a skeleton.

What attracted him to it was the shoes. Women's shoes, American kind.  No native wears shoes.  Couldn't if they wanted to -- feet too spread out and flat.  The shoes were size nine narrow.  Beside the skeleton was a cognac bottle with fresh water in it for drinking.

The island doctor said the skeleton was that of a woman.  And there were no native women on the island then.  Farther down the beach he found a man's skull but nothing else.

The magistrate was a young Irishman who got excited when he saw the bones. He thought of Amelia Earhart right away.  He put the bones in a gunnysack and with the native doctor, and three other natives in a 22-foot, four-oared boat started for Suva, Fiji, 887 nautical miles away.

The magistrate was anxious to get the news to the world.  But on the way the Irishman came down with pneumonia.  When only 24 hours out of  Suva he died.

The natives are superstitious as the devil and the next night after the young fellow died they threw the gunnysack full of bones overboard, scared of the spirits.  And that was that.
**********************************

It is particularly interesting to compare this story to the "real" story as told in the Gallagher Papers which can be found on the TIGHAR website (www.tighar.org) in the Earhart Project section under The Tarawa File.

Enjoy.

Love to mother,
Ric 
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:21:19 EDT
From:         Dick Polley
Subject:      Hot times on Gardner

Amanda,

In answer to your question about the sustained heat on Gardner...No there was no difference in temperature from one month to the next. Being only a couple of degrees below the equator there are no seasons! I've seen it get over 130 degrees but I don't remember if it was in July or December. When I think back on my life down there in all that constant heat I wonder how I was able to stand it. I'm in Texas now and the temperature every day is over 100 degrees. I mind it a lot more here than when I was on Gardner. Of course the humidity was a lot less on Gardner. As I remember, there wasn't too much rain either.

Dick Polley

*************************************************************

From Ric

Dick,
It hasn't cooled off since you were there except that last year good ol' El Nino laid some heavy weather on the place in March.  In retrospect, I'll go with the heat.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:19:31 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Gallagher

Has TIGHAR ever found, and contacted any of Gallagher's relatives?  There just might be letters from him in the family with valuable information to TIGHAR. Even if not, his descendants might find the fact interesting that TIGHAR has visited his resting place in the far off Pacific Ocean, and a little "pay back" from TIGHAR to Gallagher for the help he has given to us with his writings.  Maybe one of our British Isle members could research that.  No biggie, just an idea.

Love to Mother,

Bob

**************************************************************

From Ric

An excellent idea.  Tracking relatives would mean getting his birthplace. That info may be available through the records of the Colonial Service or the Western Pacific High Commission.  I recall some reference somewhere to his mother being alive when he was working in the islands.  Irish, Eric Bevington and another cadet officer named Wernham all came out to the Pacific together in 1937 after completing their training at Cambridge University.  Perhaps Cambridge has information.

Irish was Roman Catholic (unusual in the Colonial Service) so if we can get his birthplace we should be able to find the family through parish records. He was unmarried and may well have faithfully written home to mother.  Letters from a martyred son may well have been saved.  He may also have not kept secrets from mom.  It's a shot.  Anybody want to run with this?

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:30:51 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      new AE/FN files?

A. Pellegreno says there may be some files related to AE and some Pan Am stuff at the University of Wyoming and the Aerophilatelic Federation Of The America's in Elgin, Illinois. Are you aware of either of these? And have they been checked out? Thanks.

blue skies, -jerry
**************************************************************

From Ric

I didn't even know there was a University of Wyoming, much less an Aerophilatelic Federation Of The Americas.  This needs to be checked out. Jerry, you want to handle this or do you need volunteers?

(Ann Pellegreno was the first Amelia wannabe to fly an Electra around the world.  That was in 1967 for the 30th anniversary.  I guess Linda Finch's flight was actually the 30th anniversary commemoration of Pellegrino's trip. <G>)
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:49:38 EDT
From:         Dustymiss
Subject:      Re: Love to mother

I completely agree with Jerry Hamilton 2821 regarding keeping the history and origin of  LTM in the forefront so the respect for the phrase remains strong in novice and veteran TIGHAR forum participants alike. And so the phrase does not get abused.

Dusty

**************************************************************

From Ric

As you'll notice, I re-posted the explanation yesterday for new forum members. I'll continue to do so periodically.  It's really quite remarkable how this thing has taken on a life of it's own.  What started out as a tongue-in-cheek reminder to maintain our objectivity has become a watchword for rational thought, humility in the face of a very difficult investigation and commitment to solving the mystery.

Just for the record, "Love to mother" was first used in this context by Expedition Team member Russ Matthews about two years ago.  For a long time it was an "inside" thing among team members only.  With the emergence of the forum as an important research tool earlier this year, it was soon adopted by the TIGHAR-member subscribers and now belongs to anyone who wants to help. Who'd a thunk it?

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:01:03 EDT
From:         Will Nobel
Subject:      Vacuumatics

First off, thanks for the open forum -- I've long been interested in the AE topic, and have followed your efforts with no small amount of enthusiasm. 

As to Vacuumatics.....

I'm a collector of fountain pens.  The Parker Vacuumatic system was used on several different pens; it employed a rubber sac within the pen tube, and one of several plunger mechanisms at the base of the tube in order to fill it.

While the Vacuumatic was an innovation, the Parker nib assembly required disassembly every few fillings for cleaning; otherwise it would "pack up" completely.  The best success (although this still required cleaning) was the Parker Mod. 51 (please note that this is a model reference; not the year of manufacture).

What I'm driving at is this:  Any pen found on the island or elsewhere, if not already dated by your staff, could, if complete with readable markings, be dated rather closely -- Parker employed several different innovations and style changes within the Mod. 51, along with several different cap and nib styles -- all may be used to date the pen to within two years.

Such was the mind of Parker engineers -- and this works to the advantage of collectors; changes were made almost yearly, and as such we find it rather easy to date and type each pen.

References:

-- "Collecting and Valuing Fountain Pens"; Paul Erano (1994; Northwest Publishing, Inc.)

(NB:  There are many books on collecting, valuing and dating old pens.  This is one of the more-reliable, inasmuch as it has photographic guides for each pen.  Another good source for information is available at the website of what has to be the premier repair facility in the US for old pens, the Fountain Pen Hospital in New York City.  http://www.fountainpenhospital.com will get you there).

Hope this is of some assistance down the line!

 -- Will Noble

***************************************************************

From Ric

We hadn't really thought a lot about pens as possible surviving artifacts - but we should.  What was the body of a 1930s fountain pen made of?  What kind of metal was used for the clip?  Is this something that might survive 60 plus years in a tropical environment?  If the metal was ferrous it will have rusted away and we can't find what's left using a metal detector.  That means screening, which is a whole lot tougher.  Thanks for bringing this up.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:09:48 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: History 101 - Jacobson

Randy Jacobsen sent along:

>History is more or less bunk. (Henry Ford)

This is an incorrect, or out-of-context quote, and has been perpetuated for years.

I don't recall exactly what words Ford used, but it was something to the effect of:

"History, as it is presently being written, is more or less bunk".

His point was, I believe, that the historians of his day were no better than many of our present day "historians".

Henry Ford was not the most lovable person, but he had an exquisite sense of history. How could a man who created the Ford Museum and Greenfield Village possibly claim that "history is... bunk".

I would appreciate it if someone here could find and post the exact, in-context quote. I did a brief web search but was unsuccessful.

Thanks
**************************************************************

From Ric

Bartlett's fifteenth edition (1980) has it as a note on page 587: "History is more or less bunk" - Henry Ford (1863-1947). Interview with Charles N. Wheeler, Chicago Tribune, May 25, 1916.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:38:22 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Prop test results

A big hug from Mother to everyone who tried, with varying degrees of success, to spin the prop on the test site.

Bottom line is that AOL users had a dead engine.  Everyone else got action although, for some, the engine started but didn't stop.

I've forwarded all of your comments to the engine shop.  If you listen closely you can hear the clink of wrenches and the swearing of mechanics.  We'll get her running for everyone.  Never fear.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:43:49 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      The Sydney Crash found

Craig Fuller, TIGHAR 1589C, of Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research has found the fabled Sydney crash.

For many years we have been trying to pin down just what airplane once crashed on Sydney Island, the easternmost of the three atolls of the Phoenix Group (Gardner, Hull and Sydney) which were first settled in 1938/39.  Legend had it that "a large, four-engined American plane" had crashed there during the war. An anthropological study of former residents of Sydney who had been moved to the Solomons said that:

 "During the late war years, a large four-engined aircraft from Canton Island crashed on Sydney.  Apparently low on fuel or with one engine afire, it circled the island once before attempting to ditch in the lagoon.  The approach was made too low, however, and the airplane sheared off a palm tree and crashed just inland from the village.  It burned on coming to rest, but the islanders hastened to pull the crew members from the wreckage.  One man lived for a short time, but succumbed after an hour or so as he was badly burned.  As a service organization, the members of the Matangarengare Welfare Club ( a group organized by the U.S. engineers who had been there earlier) volunteered to guard the site and bury the crew members, which they did that same afternoon.  The next day a ship arrived from Canton and the bodies were removed and taken aboard.  The members of the club had taken charge of the effects of the crew members, and these were surrendered to the party from Canton.  They also helped search the wreckage for important documents and equipment which might be salvaged.  After the ship left for Canton, the wreck became the chief source of aluminum for the islanders, who had learned on Canton Island to make women's combs and other ornaments from this material. Eventually almost nothing remained of the aircraft."

It is important to remember that this information came not from any official report but from interviews with former residents years after the event.  The kind of aircraft is not part of the story nor is a specific date mentioned. This is pure anecdote.

Because we had found known B-24 parts on Niku and we know that people from Sydney came to live on Niku after the war, and because the B-24 was by far the most common "large, four-engined aircraft in the wartime Pacific, we strongly suspected that the airplane that crashed on Sydney was a B-24.  That suspicion was strengthened when we obtained photos of wreckage on Sydney taken in 1971. The photos showed a large section of what appeared to be wing structure and two engines which appeared to be P&W R1830s - the kind of engine used on the B-24.

On two separate occasions, TIGHAR researchers spent several days at the USAF Historical Center at Maxwell, AFB Alabama looking for an official report of a crash at Sydney Island without success.  Now, after months of searching the microfilmed accident reports Craig Fuller has hit paydirt.  His message to me reads, in part:

"I just e-mailed you an hour or two ago saying that I have yet to find the crash on Sydney and just now I stumbled across it! The pilot of C-47A s/n 43-30739 was on a "sight seeing" flight from Canton to Sydney and back. He flew over Sydney 4 times and clipped a tree on the last pass, killing all nine on board. Report with pictures to follow via snail mail."  The date was 17 December 1943.

A C-47?  Wow.  This raises (and may eventually answer) all kinds of questions. The photos of wreckage on Sydney could well be a Gooney (which had two R1830s).  The report is similar enough to the legend that it does seem to be the same crash.  So where did the B-24 parts on Gardner come from?  Most logically from the B-24 wreck we know happened at Canton.  Is our mysterious piece of airplane skin from a C-47A?  We've tried it on various Gooneys we've come across, but not necessarily on an A -model.  And what are the cabin windows of a C-47A like?  Are they, like the windows of a Lockheed 10, made of slightly curved 1/8 inch plexi?

But then there's the dado, which does not seem to be a military part.  And the cables which, at last word, have been judged by one expert to date from earlier than 1942 because the connectors are nickel rather than cadmium plated.  C-47A 43-30739 was contracted in 1943 (that's what the 43 means) and had to have been built in either 1943 or 1944.

Once I've received Craig's package I'll report further.  By the way, as noted in the last issue of TIGHAR Tracks, Craig Fuller does this kind of research for a living.  His work for TIGHAR is done as a donation, for which we are deeply grateful.  You might want to visit his website at http://www.sonic.net/azfuller.  The guy is GOOD.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:46:33 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Re: New AE/FN files?

Ric, I'd like to make the first contact as I've got some names and other info about what to look for. However, we would probably need a person on the ground in each place to rifle files. Local volunteers may apply at jham@ccnet.com.

blue skies, -jerry
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 19 Jul 1998 15:47:33 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Good News/Bad News

There is good news and there is bad news.

The good news is that the forum grows daily in size and power.  New documents and new information are giving us a better understanding of what we've found so far and a better feeling for where we should look for the ultimate answers we're all seeking.

The bad news is that the funding situation at TIGHAR is critical.  As you know, I don't often use this forum as a fundraising soapbox, but I owe it to all of you to let you know about the financial health of the organization that is the context in which all of this happens.  You have an investment in this work whether it be in money, time, emotion - or all three.

As you probably already realize, the principal reason that TIGHAR is succeeding in uncovering so much new information about the Earhart disappearance is that, for the first time ever, the mystery is being tackled by a large and ever-expanding group of interested individuals who bring to the investigation an almost limitless variety of experience and expertise (I'm talking about you guys and the rest of the TIGHAR membership).  In 1937 the Coast Guard, and then the Navy, tried to find Earhart and Noonan.  They failed.  For the next few years George Putnam and others sponsored sporadic explorations and inquiries without success.  Beginning in the 1960s, a parade of authors and would-be adventurers sought to solve the riddle, but all were acting as individuals, some were financially motivated, and none seem to have had any real academic training in historical investigation.  The inevitable result was the layer cake of allegation, speculation and mythology that has become the Earhart Legend.

TIGHAR's approach is different.  We're a 501(c)(3) tax exempt, historical and educational nonprofit foundation recognized by the IRS as a public charity. Simply put, that means that the U.S. government recognizes that what we do is best done not in the interest of making a buck, but in the interest of history and education.  In return for our promise not to "distribute profits" (i.e. any extra money we might bring in), the government doesn't make us pay taxes on the money we raise.  (Of course, we still have to pay all the usual state and federal withholding taxes, Social Security, Medicare, etc. on payroll.) U.S. citizens and corporations who contribute money to what we do also get a tax deduction "within the limits of the law" (as the saying goes).  The public charity part means only that our support comes from a broad base rather than from one or two rich individuals.   It's a good system and it's how everything from ballet, to museums, to cancer research happens in this country.

TIGHAR's problem is, and always has been, that our base isn't broad enough to support what we're trying to do.  It costs just about $160,000 per year for TIGHAR to run the office, administer research projects, and publish our quarterly journal TIGHAR Tracks.  That pays the salaries for the foundation's two full-time employees (me and my wife Pat Thrasher), the phone bills, the postage, the printing of the journal, etc.  The cost of expeditions and research trips is in addition to that and has been averaging at least another $100,000 per year.  In case you're wondering (and if you're human you are), the salaries that Pat and I are paid by TIGHAR total far less than the 50 percent of total budget which is considered to be standard for the industry.

Right now, TIGHAR's membership stands at just about 700 worldwide.  The average TIGHAR contributes roughly $100 each year (including membership renewal).  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there's something of a shortfall there.  The difference has to be made up in "special" contributions from members who have more resources than others.  Sometimes that's $500 or $1,000 here and there and once in a while it can be a lot more, usually to help fund a major expedition.  Until recently, one benefactor regularly sent $6,000 every month specifically to defray operating expenses. It wasn't enough to keep us in the black, but it sure helped.  Then his business situation changed (it'll happen) and he hasn't been able to send anything for a couple of months now.  We're doing our best to maintain essential services while we try to fill the gap (Pat and I haven't drawn our full salaries for over a year), but summer is always a thin time.  People go on vacation or have other priorities.  Our next big expedition is a year away so it's too soon to negotiate media rights contracts (a nice source of funding).  The bottom line is, TIGHAR needs to raise about $50,000 in the next month or so to get us out of the woods and on track towards Niku IIII.

Before you get too depressed, let me say that our resolve remains firm.  We've come through funding crises before and we'll come through this one, but we can't do it alone and we'll make it as easy as possible for you to help.  If you can and want to simply send a contribution for whatever you can afford - and checks like that come in almost every day, bless your hearts - this would be a good time.  If you'd like a good excuse to help, here's what we'll do:

We're holding a Two Year New Member or Renewal Sale.  A one year membership in TIGHAR is $45.  Normally we offer two years for $80, a saving of $10.  For new memberships, or renewals by current members (regardless of your expiration date), we'll give you two years for $70 if your check or credit card payment is postmarked, or is called or faxed in, by Monday, August 3rd (that's two weeks from Monday, July 20).

The mailing address is:
TIGHAR
2812 Fawkes Drive
Wilmington, DE  19808

The phone number is (302) 994-4410
The fax number is (302) 994-7945

We also have two quarter-page advertising slots available on the back cover of TIGHAR Tracks.  The cost is $2,500 per issue.

In addition, we're currently designing a new section on the website to be called The Art Of The Expedition which will accept advertising banners at a cost of $250 per quarter.  Please note: TIGHAR accepts no funding or advertising from tobacco, alcohol or gambling-related interests.

I'll report to the forum on how it's going.  We're all in this together. Dusty was absolutely right when she picked up on a throwaway phrase I used recently - "The people will find Amelia."  Thats a pretty good representation of what is happening here.

Thanks for listening.  Thanks for helping.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:08:27 EDT
From:         Walt Holm
Subject:      The Label Fragment and UPC Symbols (long)

Earlier this month at the TIGHAR Earhart gathering in San Carlos, one of the topics of discussion was the label fragment that was found in the campfire remains during the last Niku expedition.  For the first time I saw a clear picture of the entire fragment, and it struck me that a portion on the end of it looked like the edge of a UPC (Universal Product Code) barcode.  I volunteered to research this possibility, and here are the results of a very quick study.

Most of the information that I present here was gleaned from a very quick search on the internet.  There are many sites of interest, but perhaps the most useful is http://www.lascofittings.com/BarCode-EDI/Decode.html, which discusses how to decode UPC labels by eye.

UPC labels were standardized in 1973 and first used in 1974, and were widespread by the end of the 1970's.  Thus, their presence on the island is not inconsistent with the SAMTEC program or the GEOMAREX investigations later.

The area of the label that is of interest is to the rigtht of the "...ROWER PRODUCE", beyond a band of blue color.  Ric has a good computer scan of the label and perhaps he can post it to the conference.  I have what I believe is an ink-jet printout of this scan, printed (according to Ric) at about 400% scale.  Anyway, beyond the area of blue there is a new white area, with what appears to be an upside-down 8 flanked on the left by two vertical bars.  If one imagines the "..ROWER PRODUCE" being upside-down on the bottom of the label, then the 8 (now on the left side of the label) could be the last symbol of a UPC barcode, flanked on the right by the two narrow vertical lines. There is a white space to the left of the two vertical lines, and to the left of that is what appears to be a tiny remnant of a wide dark bar.  This is right at the very edge of the fragment and is a bit open to interpretation. At the conference I stated that it looked to me like a bar code ending in a wide dark bar, wide white space, narrow dark bar, narrow white space, narrow dark bar.

The following summary of UPC code relies heavily on the web site mentioned above- I suggest you consult it and others if you want more detail.

The most common form of the UPC code (UPC-A) encodes 12 digits, of which the last is a check-digit to help ensure that the code has been scanned correctly. UPC is a "discrete" code, that is, each digit has a unique encoding that is not interleaved with the other digits- each digit stands alone and it is possible to decipher the code by eye.  Each digit in the UPC code is seven places wide, with a place here referring to the width of the smallest dark line ( a "1") or light space (a "0"). For the UPC code at "100% scale" this width is 13 mils (0.013")[I backed out this number from two separate documents, but have not seen the UPC standard - confirmation please?]. An 8 on the right hand side of the symbol is encoded as 1001000.  The UPC symbol begins with a "101" start code and ends with a "101" stop code, for the scanner to measure the scanning speed. Thus, a UPC code ending with a check digit of 8 would end as ....1001000101.  Multiple 1's in a row will look like a wide dark line, and multiple 0's in a row will look like a wide light space. Around the UPC symbol is a light area referred to as the "quiet zone", which allows the scanner to determine the intensity level for a light space "0".

Rather than run all of my observations together, I will summarize them into two categories, those that support the features being a UPC code and those that reject it.

Support:

1. Border of UPC symbol - The border between color and white in the area I believe to be a UPC symbol is different than the other borders on the label. The other borders on the label have a black line about 40-60 mils wide (as measured on the ink-jet print), while the border around the symbol area has a much finer black line, about 20 mils.

2. Width of bar code lines - The width of the narrow black lines and the narrow white space on the ink-jet print that I have is about 50 mils.  If the print is indeed 400% scale, then the lines on the label are about the right 13 mil size for a "100% scale" UPC label.

3. Valid stop code - The two thin vertical lines on the edge of the symbol would form the proper "101" stop code for a UPC symbol.

4. End of digit "8" encoded properly - the white area to the left of the two thin vertical lines looks about 140 mils wide on the print.  This is an appropriate size for the "000" encoding at the end of the digit 8.

Reject:

1. Insufficient "Quiet Zone" - This is definitely a problem.  The current UPC specification calls for a "quiet zone" on the right hand side of the symbol to be at least 7 times the narrow bar width.  For the print of the label this would be about 350 mils.  The actual quiet zone on the print is about 200 mils or 4 narrow bar widths.

2. Beginning of "8" not encoded properly - Following to the left of the wide white area (see #4 above) is what appears to be a wide black bar, right on the very edge of the label fragment.  On the print it appears to measure at least 110 mils wide, or at least two narrow bar widths.  This would make the encoding of the last digit XX11000, which is not a valid character.  (8 on the right of the label is encoded as 1001000)

Items that need to be done:

1. Measure the size of the narrow lines using a loupe or microscope with a reticle (Ric).  Are they around 13 mils?  What are the UPC guidelines for printing symbols different than 100% scale?

2. Examine the area of the label, just at its edge, presumed to be a wide dark bar. Could part of this be a burn mark?

3. Get hold of the UPC standard as it existed in the 1970's, as opposed to currently.  It may be the same as now, may not be.  Specifically, what did the original UPC spec say for the width of the "quiet zone"?  Anybody know an expert on bar codes?

4. There is a variation on the UPC codes called the EAN (European Article Numbering system), and somehow it encodes a 13th digit in the same number of bar widths as the 12-digit UPC symbol.  This is apparently now an international standard.  It could potentially  match the observed bars.

5. How about some ideas as to what this area of the label could be if it is *not* a UPC symbol?  Frankly, I haven't heard any good ideas yet.

My *opinion* is that we are looking at a modern (1970's or newer) label fragment.  However, I'm not really able to prove it - yet.  All opinions on the subject welcome.

Walt Holm
TIGHAR 0980C
***************************************************************

From Ric

As instructed by Walt, I have examined the actual fragment under a dissecting microscope matched up with an actual barcode.  Here is what I see.

The two narrow vertical lines on the fragment are quite similar to, but not exactly like the lines on the barcode.  The barcode lines are a smidgeon narrower and the space between them a smidgeon wider than on the fragment (smidgeon: unit of measurement perceptible to the eye but too small for me to quantify with available instrumentation.)

The other vertical line, only the very tip of which is visible just above the 8, is definitely of the same width as the first two.

And, as you note, there is inadequate "quiet zone."

My opinion:  While the similarity is indeed striking, this does not seem to match the current UPC standard, but (again, as you note) the standard may have changed over the years or the fragment may conform to the EAN system.

On another front:  Bob Perry, TIGHAR 2021, has enlisted the help of a very reputable analytical lab in Chicago which has worked on little projects like the Shroud of Turin.  They may be able to date the piece from the inks and paper. (So what do we do if we get a 1930s label with a 1970s barcode on it? Cue the theme from The Twilight Zone.)

I do have a real "killer" scan of the fragment but it's way too big to email. The current plan is for us to do some more detailed photography here, then ship the artifact to Paul Chattey, TIGHAR 1120, for additional photography, by which time they may be ready to go to work on it in Chicago.  Seems like an awful lot of fuss for a scrap of paper.  Maybe we should call it The Label of Niku.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:12:28 EDT
From:         Marilyn Pollock
Subject:      Re: New AE/FN files?

The Aero Philatelic Federation is at 100 E. Chicago, Elgin, IL 60120.  Phone 847-468-0840.  Their answer machine indicates that they are there on Tuesdays but not necessarily during the summer.(?)  Elgin is about an hour from my home but I do work fulltime and then some.  Unless you have a better offer, I will pursue it as I can.

Marilyn Pollock 1238
*************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Marilyn.  Please coordinate directly with Jerry Hamilton at jham@ccnet.com
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:21:51 EDT
From:         Bill Briska
Subject:      Re: New AE/FN files?

As a resident of Elgin, Illinois I am unaware of the Aerophilatelic Federation and there is no phone listing.  But, no listing means nothing as many associations have no phone number and are just groups of like minded people.  In addition I am not well integrated with the local flying community (but would like to be) so I may not have encountered this federation during my many years of living in these parts and being an active in the local historical societies and related preservation groups. If someone would send me a few more clues, names, etc. I will provide local follow up.  In the meantime I will keep an an eye for them.

Bill Briska, #471
**************************************************************

From Ric

Bill, you too should touch base with Jerry Hamilton and Marilyn Pollock. Jerry has the ball on this.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:37:32 EDT
From:         Suzanne Tamiesie
Subject:      Re: Henry Ford and History

According to " A Dictionary of Quotations"  Edited by A. Norman Jeffares and Martin Gray  1997 Barnes and Noble  Publishers : Henry Ford "History is more or less bunk.  It's tradition. We don't want tradition.  We want to live in the present and the only history that is worth a tinker's dam is the history we make today."  Chicago Tribune, 1916.

As I newcomer I am thoroughly enjoying and am being educated by all the information.

Thanks,
Suzanne Tamiesie
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:39:49 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Radios:  Bendix Receiver??

Ric wrote:

>5.  In "Last Flight" Earhart relates a newspaper interview she gave in
>Karachi, during the world flight in which she described her radios.  She says
>that among the navigational instruments in front of her are " compasses,
>directional gyros, the Bendix direction finder, and various radio equipment."
>She also says, "The receiver for the Western Electric radio is under the co-
>pilot's seat and the transmitter is in the cabin.  The main dynamo is under my
>seat.  The radio's cuplike microphone is hung beside the window at my left."
>No mention of a separate DF receiver.

It's hard to imagine that she would not have mentioned a separate DF receiver if it was there.  But we really can't rule out a Bendix receiver installed somewhere.  It's possible that when she says, "Bendix direction finder," she means to include the whole rig.  She may have thought of a Bendix receiver, if it was there, as strictly a part of the direction finder -- no other reason for it being there in her mind.  Still, it's hard to believe she would not have said where it was, as she did with the other radio stuff.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:51:14 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: Good news/bad news

I still think I'm right about the Henry Ford quote, Bartlett's be damned. I'll research it further.

Does anyone know (is there any way to know) what effect the recent tidal wave that hit Papua New Guinea may have had on Niku?

Tom

*************************

Niku is a long way from PNG. If you hear of a major tsunami hitting the west coast of Fiji, maybe then we should worry, but this one should have had no effect.

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:53:15 EDT
From:         Will Noble
Subject:      Vacuumatics II

Ric raised some excellent questions that I'll try to answer here without becoming either too specific or arcane:

Q:   From what material was the body of a 1930's-era pen constructed?

A:    This varies.  The most common was resin (as plastic was susceptible to cleaning solvents and sunlight, it was almost never used).  The Parkers mentioned earlier were resin.  Others used more exotic materials (gold; silver; even wood were employed), but the most-common material was resin.

Q:    From what material was the clip commonly constructed?

A:    Again, this varies.  The Parker '51 was gold-fill; even if there were rust spots on the metal clip, the gold sheath would prevent complete corrosion.

Q:    Other materials?

A:    Nibs were always an alloy with some gold.  These would remain preserved, even on Niku.

Q:    Markings?

A:    Most pens carried the name (and sometimes the place of origin), along with other markings useful for dating a pen.  Again, these vary; it might be a good thing to remember that research with an expert would be necessary.  I am a collector and an Earhart buff; I am not an expert.

It should be remembered that there are fountain-pen parts that have survived the sinking of the Titanic, and which have been recovered by Titanic, Inc. from a depth of over 10,000 feet.  While I don't want to get off on a jag about "that other disaster", the point is simple -- pens were not throwaways, not back in the '30's -- they were made from precious and semiprecious materials and made to last.  This certainly isn't more important than dating the more detailed parts of the 10-E, but could (and should) be used to assist in dating a site that's being excavated.

Thanks again!

 - Will Noble

*********************
May thanks, Will, this is just the kind of thing we need.

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:56:18 EDT
From:         Eng Lee
Subject:      Re: a year on Niku

Just read the posting by dr914, to which you replied, amongst other things:

>The other problem is that anybody dumb enough to accept the
>job couldn't find anything anyway.

I know Australian Geograhic has put couples in pretty remote places to live for a year, like in Antarctica (rescue would be almost impossible certain times of the year) or the Kimberlys (equatorial like heat and impossible to reach by road). They brought in 1 year's supply of food, clothing, etc. Canadian Geographic have put researchers in very remote parts of Alaska.

The point is, you may be able to find suitable people and I don't think that both the economics nor mechanics of this search method is totally ridiculous.

Otherwise, thanks for the superb moderation and methodical thought you have put into the search.

Regards from Oz,
lee
TIGHAR member 2147
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:07:16 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Radios: Code capability

>"On enquiry Miss Earhart and Captain Noonan advised that they entirely depended on
>radio telephone reception as neither of them were able to read Morse at any
>speed but could recognize an individual letter sent several times."

This suggests they could have transmitted using code -- if the key was not discarded. I don't think we know for sure.  I don't recall what all people think (claim) they heard, but they could sure have got out a lot of SOS signals (... --- ...)  That's pretty easy.  And they could probably have managed a bit more.

It's a lot easier to send code than to read it.  Maybe not "good" code with dots and dashes the right length and properly spaced, but readable.  If you've memorized all the characters, you can do it.  Even thought you're a long way from being able to read it at all.  "... At any speed."

"...recognize an individual letter sent several times."  Yeah, trying to communicate with them would have got a lot of "dit dit dah dah dit dits" from them!  "Repeat!"

Been there, done that!  You're out in the woods with a radio you've carried on your back for several miles.  Another guy has carried the hand-cranked generator.  You ride it like a bicycle except you turn the two cranks by hand.  It's WW-I stuff.  Each time you press the key, it loads the generator -- VERY hard to turn.

You've just laboriously sent a message of perhaps half-a-dozen words.  Your trying to remember where you are and what to send next, and that other guy is yelling at you not to make the dashes so damn long!  Finally, with a sense of relief, you key in a -.- ("K" says, "over") and switch to receive. After all that effort, what do you hear?  Ditty dumb dumb ditty!  Repeat! The idiot couldn't read it!

It's hard to believe I could once copy 30 WPM -- about the limit when you're writing it down by hand.  It was encrypted stuff.  It meant nothing so you had to write it down.  You had to get on a typewriter to get any faster.  I got out of there before a typewriter opened up and haven't touched the stuff since! Now I can't even recall all the characters!  And I have no inclination to try!

***************************************************************

From Ric

Supposedly, Earhart left her code-sending key (what we would think of as a telegraph key) behind in Miami.  If that was the case, she could only send code by keying her mic.

Perhaps significantly, the only S-O-S messages claimed to have been received were heard by two amateurs, Walter McMenamy and Karl Pearson, in L.A. on the night of the day she disappeared.  McMenamy is a very suspect source who later went off the deep end with outlandish conspiracy claims.  None of the more credible post-loss messages are alleged to have contained S-O-S.  One explanation could be that, if AE and FN were able to receive, they knew that the search was on.  No need to waste precious time and power telling people they were in trouble.  Duh.

Another interesting point is that the only credible post-loss message which has any intelligible content was the famous "281" message received by Navy Radio Wailupe (Hawaii) late on the night of July 4.  This message was heard only as fragmentary phrases sent in "keyed transmission, extremely poor keying behind carrier."  This would seem to be consistent with the sort of thing Earhart and Noonan could put out given their limitations of expertise and equipment.  The "fragmentary phrases" heard by three separate navy operators were:

281 NORTH HOWLAND CALL KHAQQ BEYOND NORTH DON'T (probably really WON'T) HOLD WITH US MUCH LONGER ABOVE WATER SHUT OFF

We really don't know how the phrases were split up, but traditionally they have been presented as:

281 NORTH HOWLAND
CALL KHAQQ
BEYOND NORTH
WON'T HOLD WITH US MUCH LONGER
ABOVE WATER
SHUT OFF

We've only spent about a gazillion hours trying to assess the credibility and possible meaning of this exquisitely cryptic message.  The Navy initially thought it meant that the plane was down in the water 281 miles north of Howland and ships were sent to look there.  About the time the ships arrived at that point and saw zippo, a message was received from California saying that if the plane was sending these messages it had to be on land and able to operate its right-hand, generator-equipped engine.  That is, in large part, why the Colorado's search focused on the Phoenix islands rather than the water.  Later, after the search failed, the message (like all the post-loss messages) was judged to have been either a misunderstanding or a hoax.

Well, the 281 message was not a misunderstanding because nobody sending a legitimate message would have done it in "extremely poor keying."  It could have been a hoax, except that very few people knew that AE and FN were crumby at code.  The most interesting thing to us about the message is that the equator happens to be exactly 281 nautical miles north of Niku and the "won't hold with us much longer...above water...shut off" seems to fit rather nicely with our hypothesis of an airplane on the reef-flat threatened by rising seas.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:13:50 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      British records report

Walt Holm, TIGHAR 0980C, has sent me a detailed report of the work he did recently at the Public Records Center near London.  No earthshaking discoveries but for anyone who wants to continue the research it would good to know what ground has been covered.

If you'd like a copy of the report just let me know and I can send it as an attached file in a private email. (The forum software won't support attached files.)

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:52:32 EDT
From:         Dean Andrea
Subject:      Aerial photo enhancement

Is it possible to look at old photos of Gardner and try to computer enhance the approximate area where Bruce found his radial engine ? I know he isn't sure it was on Gardner but if one were to scan the area of the "island" that he thought he found it on ?????  Even though I haven't been posting too much my brain is still working and I am following the forum intensely. Dean A.

**************************************************************

From Ric

We've thought about trying that but the problem is resolution.  The old aerial photos are mostly mapping photos taken from several thousand feet up.  An R1340 has a diameter of about 52 inches which, at that distance, is getting down to the size of the film grain. An engine is also going to be pretty much the same color as the rest of the reef.

We've been able to pick out what looks and acts like a debris-field of aluminum on the reef in the place where former residents say there were airplane parts, but that's only because aluminum is light colored against a dark reef and we have two overlapping photos so we can be sure that we're not looking at dust spots or flaws on the film.

We have some good low level oblique shots taken by the Royal New Zealand Air Force, but they all were taken after 1971 when Bruce removed the engine.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:24:30 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      esoterica

Picking nits:

        1.  The prop spins fine on Microsoft Explorer, but I think we got a magneto problem because I can't get the bugger stopped.  I finally pulled the mixture to idle/cutoff and that worked, but not without some SERIOUS noises from under the cowling!

        2.  Shouldn't it be Niku IV, rather than Niku IIII, as you had in your earlier message?

        3.  Vacuumatics?  Wasn't that what was used before Viagra?

        4.  " . . .  a tinker's damn", RE: Henry Ford's description of history provided by Suzanne Tamiesie.  Actually it is a "tinker's dam." In the 19th century wandering handymen that repaired pots and pans were called tinkers.  The repairs often involved soldering handles back onto a pot or pan.  To do this the tinker would take a piece of scrap metal and wrap it around the joint that was being soldered to hold the solder in place until it hardened.  This scrap metal was called a dam. Therefore, anything of little or no value was referred to as a tinker's dam.   My mother used it a lot, e.g., 'Dennis, you're not going to amount to a tinker's dam  . . .'

        LTM -- DOM  #0149
***************************************************************

From Ric

I'll reply to #2.

Our use of Niku IIII rather than the Roman numerically correct Niku IV is an intentional and blatant affectation which, when rendered in our very cool logo for the expedition, is meant to resemble the slashes of a tiger's (TIGHAR's) claws.  Humor us.

Speaking of your mother's opinion -  I seem to remember an occasion many years ago up in Maine during the search for the White Bird when you tried to lecture Sherman Graham, an old logger, on what an artifact we found in the woods might be.  Sherm pinned you to the lunch counter, put his nose about six inches from yours and said in his best Downeast style, "Now look.  What you're sayin' is just plain crazy, so you might as well just forget it."  We all learned a lot about investigative methodology in that school of hard knocks.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:57:17 EDT
From:         Hugh Graham
Subject:      Nuclear tsunamis

Caught the ending of a documentary entitled "-------, The Atomic Bomb Movie".  The essence was that hundreds of atmospheric tests were conducted by the USA in a rush to beat the moratorium imposed by JFK.

These were 17kiloton to 5Megaton test in Nevada, Utah and the Pacific. The Pacific islands I remember are Fiji, Eniwetok, and Johnston islands. Have you considered the possible effects of these tests (which were previously unpublicized) with respect to Nikumaroro and/or a Tsunami(sic).  Hugh Graham.

***************************************************************

From Ric

At the time the tests were conducted there were folks living on Niku.  If any tsunamis had hit I think we would know about it.

There were no atomic tests done on Fiji.  You're probably thinking of Bikini. Eniwetok, yes.  Johnston, I'm not sure.  Anyway, the Central Pacific is an awfully big place.  Lots of room for waves to peter out.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 20 Jul 1998 15:14:18 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Radio letter

We now have available to any forum member who is interested, a letter written to Earhart author Fred Goerner by a man named Joseph Gurr who claimed to be Earhart's radio technician and consultant prior to the two world flight attempts.  The letter was written in 1982 and so must be regarded as anecdotal rather than contemporaneous with events it describes.  In it, Gurr describes technical details of the radio set-up and his role in modifying the airplane. In a separate document, also available, he responds to specific questions asked by Goerner.

There are no great revelations here but for those forum members who have been puzzling over what was done when and why, it may make the picture more clear.

The letters are too long to be posted on the forum and the forum software won't support attached files, but if you'd like me to send you copies please just send me an email and I'll send them to you attached to a private email. No charge.

Note:  Goerner gave the documents to the Smithsonian for public access..  Both Goerner and Gurr are now dead.  There are no copyright problems.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:52:58 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Tsunamis

As a marine geophysicist, I feel comfortable commenting on this tsunami subject.  The earthquake that caused it was located within 20 miles offshore.  The substantial upward or downward resultant motion due to the earthquake causes displacement of the water over the epicenter.  It then propagates outward, and the displacement becomes substantial when the topography shoals, such as on beaches.  Since the energy gets dispersed with distance (inverse distance squared relationship), tsunamis tend to dissipate with great distance.  Further, one must have a direct path from the epicenter to the place of interest, as the energy gets dissipated by refraction and diffraction around islands and coastlines.  Since we did not hear of tsunami effects on Fiji, Samoa, or Hawaii, I suspect this particular case was quite local, and any effect on Niku was minimal.
Randy Jacobson
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:09:12 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Radios: DF receivers

Mike Everette wrote:

>I also find it hard to believe that the loop was connected to a
>communications receiver which may not have been designed to work with one;
>that is, a radio without the special "balanced" input circuit needed to
>"match" a loop antenna.  A wire antenna on an aircraft is "unbalanced" -

Again quoting the article in the August 1937 issue of Aero Digest...

With reference to MN-1, MN-3, MN-5, and MN-7 loops:

"These DFs are designed to operate in conjunction with Bendix Type RA1 receiver, but will also give accurate and dependable bearings when used with any standard radio receiver covering the desired frequency range."

I expect the "Coupling Unit" takes care of any balance/unbalance problem that may exist.  Sort of like the "balun" transformer typically used today to take care of that problem.  Of course, the Bendix "Coupling Unit" must also provide for the sense antenna input.  The only "Coupling Unit" designation in the article is:  MN-2
Perhaps there was only one model.

>I will look into the circuitry of a Bendix MN-5 loop.  I believe this
>antenna was used with the MN-26 series DF receivers, and I have information
>on this system.

As noted above, the loops appear to have been intended for use with Type RA1 receiver.  If the schematic of that receiver could be found, I suspect it would show input circuitry essentially like the WE receiver -- nothing special to accommodate the loop antenna.

It would be interesting to see a schematic of that "Coupling Unit."  The only information in the article is that it took power from the receiver and contained two Type 77 tubes.  Those are RF pentodes with the control grid brought out on a cap on top of the tube.  Big help! <grin>
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:15:00 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: Henry Ford and History

Suzanne wrote:

>According to " A Dictionary of Quotations"  Edited by A. Norman Jeffries and
>Martin Gray  1997 Barnes and Noble  Publishers : Henry Ford "History is more
>or less bunk.  It's tradition. We don't want tradition.  We want to live in
>the present and the only history that is worth a tinker's damn is the history
>we make today."  Chicago Tribune, 1916.

Thank you, Suzanne, I knew there was more to it than just the first sentence. Still, the quote isn't quite what I thought it was, ergo I retract my earlier diatribe.

That's quite a statement, though, from the fella responsible for creating Greenfield Village. But then Ford was a study in contradictions.

Sorry for being off-topic, Ric and all. I'll shut up about Henry Ford now.

[I knew a Suzanne with a 'z' once... I'm now awash in memories of my mis-spent youth]

Tom

Never forget the importance of history. To know nothing of what happened before you took your place on earth, is to remain a child forever. [unknown]
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:16:22 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Coax cable: Connectors

>But then there's the dado, which does not seem to be a military part.  And the
>cables which, at last word, have been judged by one expert to date from
>earlier than 1942 because the connectors are nickel rather than cadmium
>plated.  C-47A 43-30739 was contracted in 1943 (that's what the 43 means) and
>had to have been built in either 1943 or 1944.

So, that's why the connectors were "in remarkably good condition!"

A word of caution... These dates are pretty close together.  H. P. Jones may have still been shipping nickel plated connectors from stock after they had changed to cad plating for subsequent production.  This sort of thing is even more likely if the connectors were purchased from a distributor who may have had a lot of nickel plated connectors in stock.. And whoever made up the cable assembly may have had older, nickel plated connectors on hand.  We can't cut it real close on that basis.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:31:25 EDT
From:         Susan Bound
Subject:      Life Expectancy of lost flyers

In reading the news tonight, I noticed that a lot of the injured in New Guinea were having amputations due to the tidal wave injuries.

"Many survivors underwent amputations because bacteria-filled coral sand had
infected wounds, causing gangrene, said Lt. Col. John Crozer, a surgeon."

Since antibiotics didn't exist for the normal populace in 1937, this is a possible cause of death for our missing flyers.  Certainly we knew very little about tropical medicine prior to W.W.II.  As a nurse, I was performing procedures in 1994 that physicians didn't know how to do in 1965.  Much of our current knowledge is new within the past 30 or less years.

Susie Bound

***************************************************************

From Ric

Even with modern antibiotics we have to be very careful on Niku.  Infection from coral scrapes and cuts is standard.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:40:32 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Canton aerials

Regarding aerial photos and Bruce's engine. How about photo's or other imaging of Canton after Bruce brought the motor to that island? And before the Airhorse buried it. Beats digging for it.

blue skies, -jerry

***************************************************************

From Ric

Good thought.  What we would need are aerials of Canton taken during the SAMTEC operation.  To date, we haven't come across such imagery but we haven't specifically looked for it either.  John?  Kris? Bruce? Forest?  Any of you guys seen know of any such photos?
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:49:20 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Spin the prop (the other way)

The report from the hangar is that the prop is now turning in the correct direction.  If you want to verify that the R&D hangar is at Http://www.morningstarinteractive.com/development/tighar

We haven't licked the AOL problem yet, but we're working on it.

I'm now in the process of getting some authentic R1340 start-up audio.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:25:33 EDT
From:         Russ Matthews
Subject:      Membership/Renewal sale

Go ahead and put me down for another two years.  I'll send the check today.

  LTM,
  Russ

  P.S.  I seem to remember you dreaming about a TIGHAR endowment (so this kind of thing doesn't happen).  How much do you think that would that have to be?
**************************************************************
From Ric

Thanks Russ.  An endowment of 2.5 million invested at 8% would yield $200,000 per annum which would be sufficient to cover operating expenses and some "seed money" for projects.  In the grand scheme of things it's not really all that much, unless you don't have it.
***************************************************************

From Dr. Tommy Love

Sign me up for an additional two years--TOMMY

****************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Tommy.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:49:20 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Tidal wave?

Somewhere in my travels to different libraries, I was reading an article about the AE search and at the bottom of the page there was an article about a "Tidal Wave" from an earthquake somewhere in the region.  I don't remember what paper or any of the exact wording, but it said "The tidal wave was not expected to reach the Earhart search area"

At that time who would know if one hit Gardner???  Does anybody know of this event?

****************************************************************

From Ric

That's a new one to me.  We've looked in vain for some event that would account for a hypothetical sudden increase in surf activity on the reef-flat at Niku on the night of July 4, 1937.  We know that there was severe weather north of the equator on the 3rd which forced the PBY sent down from Hawaii to turn back.  We thought that maybe waves generated by that storm would reach Niku late the next day, but Randy Jacobson assures us that such phenomena do not cross the equator.

I wonder if the waves you saw mentioned were not tidal waves but storm waves?
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:57:59 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Re: Membership/Renewal sale

You old smoothie, I never could resist a good deal.  Put me down for two years also.

Dennis O. (as in Oreo!!) McGee


P.S.  I truly hope you have destroyed that tape.
*************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Dennis.

Old TIGHAR Tales:
During a lunch break on an early TIGHAR expedition deep in the Maine woods, Dennis did an extemporaneous "Oreo cookie commercial" for the video camera that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen.  We have not destroyed the tape.  I'm just waiting for Dennis to get really rich.  That tape is the only retirement plan I've got.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:20:44 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Label of Niku

I had not mentioned this before because I give it a very low credibility rating.

One person I talked with about the 1/8 inch spaced striations on the label fragment claimed to have worked for some cannery years ago.  He said that the 1/8 inch corrugations did not appear until the welded-seam technology was developed.  This much seems very reasonable to me.  He claimed the welded-seam appeared in the early 1970s.  If this is a correct date, it fits the bar-code theory.  Perhaps we have two things that say:  Not earlier than 1970.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Perhaps - and perhaps not.  As it stands right now, the markings visible on the label have been disqualified as being part of a current U.S. barcode (no "quiet zone" and incorrect code).  Other possibilities are being explored.  The significance or insignificance of corrugations has yet to be documented.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 14:22:51 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Funding Report 7/21/98

As promised, this is a report on the progress of our funding drive which officially began yesterday, Monday 7/20.  The goal is to raise $50,000 by August 31 so that TIGHAR is in a sound financial position to begin the preparations for the Niku IIII expedition.

With no endowment and no grants or government (read taxpayer) subsidies, TIGHAR is essentially a hunting and gathering society.  Like all such cultures, we can't write poetry or put together wooly mammoth hunts (or expeditions), if we're spending all of our time chasing down enough rabbits, roots and berries to stay alive.  What we're trying to do in the next month or so is to round up enough rabbits (and antelopes and maybe even a zebra now and then) so that we'll be able do the long-term fundraising and logistical preparations it takes to launch next year's ultimate mammoth hunt - the Niku IIII Expedition.

Part of this funding drive is a Two Year Membership/Renewal Sale in which forum subscribers who are not yet TIGHAR members can get a two year membership in TIGHAR for $70 (a saving of more than 20 percent) and current members can extend their memberships for the same low price.  This special offer ends on Monday, August 3rd.

In reporting the results of this funding drive we'll welcome new TIGHAR members and acknowledge renewals of present members by name, unless you specify otherwise.  For other contributions we'll report the amount, but not the name, of the donor.
***********************
Report for 7/21/98

One Year New Memberships - Thomas Robison 2179, Samuel Ginder 2180 Special Two Year New Memberships rec'd or pledged- George Mershon 2181, Hugh Graham (#pending)

One Year Renewals - Dorsett 1441C, Wicklund 1699, Nolan 0764, Canter 2037 Special Two Year Renewals - Matthews 0509CE , Love 0457CE, McGee 0149CE Subtotal - $620

Publications and merchandise orders - $399.70

Special Contributions:
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $430
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $500
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $1,000
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $1,000
Stock contribution from TIGHAR member - $1,355
Subtotal - $4,285

Total this date - $5,304.70
Total to date - $5,304.70
Still to raise - $44,695.30
Days remaining - 41

Note:  All donations to TIGHAR are tax deductible within the limits of U.S. law.  Contributions of stock rather than cash can have significant additional benefits to the contributor through the avoidance of capital gains taxes. Consult your tax preparer for advice on how to make your contribution to TIGHAR best benefit both you and the organization. This is an excellent start.  Thank you.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:09:26 EDT
From:         Ted Whitmore
Subject:      Survival on Pacific Islands

I've wanted to comment on Tom Robison's note of July 10 about the natives surviving on Gardner Island,  sorry for the delay.

Survival is not a serious problem to natives of the islands wherever coconuts are growing.  The juice ("milk") in green coconuts that are approaching maturity is excellent drinking water; the gelatinous "meat" of soon to be ripe nuts is good and nutritious.  Shelter can be built using the palm fronds. Twine, even rope can be made from the fibers removed from the husks of coconuts and fish hooks sufficient to catch small fish can be fashioned from the hard shells of coconuts. Fresh vegetable is available if you know how and are equipped with an axe to remove the growth bud from the tops of the trees.  In fact, coconut trees can supply everything a person  needs to survive indefinitely.  And, if you need a laxative, eat a goodly supply of the meat of ripe coconuts.

Other fruits and vegetables are also found on the tropical islands that are good and nutritious.  You just have to know what to look for, where to look and how to use them.

My bet is that Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan had no knowledge of survival techniques and were probably not equipped (a sharp heavy sheath knife and a good hand ax will suffice) even to open a green coconut to get a drink.

So lacking, they died of dehydration and by the time of the Navy 'fly over' were either already dead or so near death that they were unable to get out of the precious shade to signal.

So far as other perils such as injury and sickness are concerned, consider the plight of the early settlers of the United states and the pioneers who went forth into the unknown to find what was out there despite obvious dangers.  It takes a pioneer spirit.

In 1945 I was one of the Coast Guardsmen on Atafu and Canton Islands and had the privilege of seeing Gardner Island from the deck of the USS Redbud, our supply ship at the time.  Having been there certainly adds an extra dimension to following the TIGHAR.

Ted Whitmore,  # 2169.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:16:15 EDT
From:         Stephen White
Subject:      Re: TIGHAR at Oshkosh?

I'm new to the group (and the search for AE), and until this posting, have been a quiet observer of the forum.  In light of that, I guess I'll throw my two cents into the pot and kindly welcome any response.

I'm not sure what the attendance figures were in 1985 or what the cost of a booth is likely to be now, but with a possible draw of 800,000 people to an event like EAA Oshkosh, I would think that representation, in some form or another, would be well worth the cost of a booth.  Considering the demographics of the event, the potential for fund raising seems like a chance worth taking again.  Especially since it is 14 years later and both TIGHAR and the search for AE and FN have received so much more recognition since 1985.

With the advent of the TV specials, the website, and this forum alone, I know that there are many more people out there who would love to get involved, than there were then.  Yeah, you may only sell a few t-shirts and only get a few people to join TIGHAR, but there is the chance that maybe one of those 800,000 people would be willing to step up and push the search just a tad bit closer to resolution.  Oh, and by the way, selling TIGHAR to me wasn't all that hard.

Thanks,
Stephen White

P.S. I'm sure you could find someone a little closer to (maybe) volunteer, so travel would be much less of a factor as well.

***************************************************************

From Ric

It may well be worth another shot for the reasons you suggest.  Unfortunately, with the show - what? - a couple weeks off? -  it's really not a practical possibility for this year.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:30:54 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Membership/Renewal sale

Yes - I'll take another 2 years also, and I'll make a $200 donation - please debit my credit card by $270. You have the details Pat.

Simon.

***************************************************************

From Ric

God save the Queen.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:34:04 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Tidal wave?

Very early on in my investigations, I examined all earthquakes in July, 1937 that might have caused problems/tsunamis.  None were found.  Sorry guys, but trying to explain things by environmental phenomena is hard to do.  Keep trying, though.  I still think AE and FN were abducted by alien time travelers so they could appear on that Star Trek Voyager episode.  ;-)
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:39:00 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Radios: Code capability

What is the prevailing thought as to what "keying behind carrier" might mean?

>> "keyed transmission, extremely poor keying behind carrier."

I take it that we are talking about code transmission, not voice in short bursts with pauses in between.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Good question.  I'll leave it to one of our radio gurus to answer but I think that it's clear that "keyed" means sent in code.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:49:08 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Radio: code capability

>Supposedly, Earhart left her code-sending key (what we would think of as a
>telegraph key) behind in Miami.  If that was the case, she could only send
>code by keying her mic.

I can believe she left her key behind.  To her, it would seem totally useless. Keying the mic sounds terrible!  As I read the transmitter schematics that would be turning the whole transmitter on and off, including the dynamotor. Tube filaments and/or cathodes would be heating and cooling and several relays would be in and out. The dynamotor would coast some but it all sounds pretty drastic to me!  And it seems to me the time delays would make it almost impossible to send what you intended, even if you were reasonably good with code.

Does anyone have first-hand experience with, or knowledge of, this sort of thing being done with equipment of this vintage -- tubes, dynamotors, etc? I can imagine it better with solid-state equipment.
***************************************************************

From Ric

I have no experience with equipment of that vintage but I can tell you that when the chips are down you make do with what you've got.  I had a generator go out on a light single engine airplane in solid instrument conditions.  The battery ran down until, although I could receive, I couldn't transmit. Just before I lost that capability I set up a system with ATC whereby they would ask yes or no questions and I would reply by identing the transponder once for yes, two for no.  I shot an entire ILS approach into Syracuse, NY in a blinding snowstorm that way.  Never declared an emergency and walked away from the airplane - straight to the men's room to change my underwear.

Thanks for the excuse to tell that war story.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:43:01 EDT
From:         John Clauss
Subject:      Re: Canton aerials

So far we haven't seen any aerial photos of Kanton.  They have to be out there.  It was an active base and as a consequence  more interesting to the military than the outlying islands.

There is a notation in the phase down action plan for SAMTEC (1/10/79) : "Notify XR of photographic surveillance flight requirements (Ref SAMTEC/AFS Agreement)"

That pretty much says that aerial photos were taken, we just have to find them.

John    TIGHAR #0142
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:45:41 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Southern Belle

You may recall the 1937 New Orleans news article regarding Fred's friend, Awbrey Alexander, for whom Fred was shipmate, best man, and godfather to Alexander's  daughter. I was able to track down his son, Dr. Awbrey Alexander, Jr. and through him, his sister, Juliet D. (name withheld by request), Fred's god-daughter. She was a real sweetheart, a genteel and classy lady.

Unfortunately, didn't have a lot of contact with Fred as he moved away when she was about seven. She recalls that Fred called form the airport in May of '37 (she was 14) when he came thru with AE (Shushan Airport later became Lakefront Airport). Fred talked to her on the phone briefly and to her father briefly, but did not have a face-to-face meeting. She did get a postcard from him from India. She may still have it and will look for it. She also recalls the letter Fred wrote to her dad when he was flying the China Clipper in which Fred asks him not to talk to newspaper reporters. She is not sure why he was so reluctant to be interviewed. She will also look to see if she can find that letter, but noted it is "not for publication". I wanted to say I don't think Fred would mind at this point, but didn't want to sound like a smart-alec - so assured her we were only interested in the content of the letter for historical purposes.  We spoke for about half an hour and I was much impressed by her poise and graciousness. Hope she will be able to find something.

Smooth Sailing,
Ron Dawson 2126

*********************************

Nice Going, Ron!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:47:07 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Fred's drinking or not

When talking to Alexander's son, out of the blue, he said: "I understand he was quite a boozer". I asked him if he heard that from his father or from some other source and about when. He was unable to recall, but doesn't think he heard it from his dad. "I may have read it somewhere" So we are no closer to an answer on that point. But I must point out that, if it is a false rumor, it certainly is a widespread false rumor. Does it really matter as long as he was not "under the influence" on the final flight? Yes, because, as I understand it (physiologists, jump in here), prolonged exposure to alcohol can cause long term effects including cognitive deficits, short term memory loss, reasoning process deficits, etc. Hope its not true, but let's be realistic.

Smooth Sailing,
Ron Dawson 2126
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:50:26 EDT
From:         
Subject:      Fund raising

I am a new subscriber to the forum, and have been enjoying the conversation immensely. I am a historical researcher, and I am amazed at the amount of expertise and professionalism this group displays.

 As for the fund raising drive, I have an idea for you.  About five years ago I helped set up an non-profit, tax exempt corporation for my children's elementary school.  Due to our status, at least in California, we are allowed to accept corporate matching funds.  This means that if an employer offers this charitable benefit, they will match any monies donated to TIGHAR by individual members.  This may be something to look into, and see if it extends to all states.

Linda Bentz

******************************************************

TIGHAR can and does accept matching grants from corporations, and many of our members have done this for us. It varies a lot from company to company; some restrict such gifts only to educational institutions, others will send money to any non-profit cause the employee is interested in. If you work for a big company, check out your matching-gifts program! Some we know of that do this: IBM, Exxon, under some circumstances Federal Express.

Pat
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:52:48 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Tidal wave?

No...the article said they were from an earthquake.  Wish I could remember what paper and what date.  I am installing some new microfilm equipment at the Fresno County library tomorrow.  I'll see if I can find it there.  It was either Fresno, Stockton or Modesto.  I'll find it again.

Don

> ...I wonder if the waves you saw mentioned were not tidal waves but storm
> waves?

***************************

See Randy Jacobson's message on this subject posted earlier.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:53:41 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Tidal wave?

It's coming to me a little at a time....I thinks it was in the area of Rabaul....I'll find that article again!!!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:59:56 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Radios and Code Capability

Regarding code (C-W) transmission capability of vintage avionics:

I do have experience with this sort of equipment.  It is indeed possible to transmit code (send C-W) by keying the mic.  The push-to-talk button would be wired in parallel with the telegraph key.  (In fact, some older military aircraft radios which used a throat mic had a "key knob" on top of the transmitter control box for use as a push-to-talk button, or as a code key... specifically, the SCR-183 and 283; as well as the SCR-274N - the famous "Command Set."   These were used in many Army Air Corps birds)

The important thing to remember:  The transmitter would have had some kind of mode-selector switch, probably "C-W - Voice"  or "C-W - Tone - Voice."   "Tone" would refer to Morse transmission using tone-modulated carrier.  In such a mode the radio still had to be keyed, of course.  It is conceivable that this is the source of the comment "extremely poor keying behind carrier" referenced from a posting about the post-disappearance messages and their content.

It would have been important to switch the radio over from Voice to C-W or Tone (which may be called MCW) before trying to send Morse.  Reasons below.

Check your diagrams... I'll bet the tube filaments are on all the time, even in standby... instant heat tubes were quite uncommon in the 30s.  What are the tube type numbers?  I can tell you for sure.

On C-W the dynamotor would run continuously, and the key would activate a relay  or relays to make and break the high-voltage lead, or perhaps come other circuit, as well as switch the antenna.  On voice, the dynamotor would not run until the transmitter was keyed on push-to-talk.  In either case, keying would involve several relays.

If the rig was keyed by the mic switch to send C-W, and the transmitter was still switched to the Voice mode, the dynamotor would be cycling on and off with the keying.  You are right-it'd sound horrendous...  the note would "chirp" like a 500-pound canary bird, rather than be clean and stable. Also, the constant starting and  restarting the dynamotor  in sync with keying would kill the battery very quickly... a transmitter dynamotor may draw 100 amps, momentarily,  on start surges.  Running continuously, it might draw 10 to 12 amps if powering a 50-watt transmitter  from a 28-volt battery.  That current drain does not include tube heaters.  Anyhow, that's lots of amps compared to solid state gear; and aircraft batteries weren't that large, even then.

This, as they say in the trade, is definitely not good.

In any event, AE may not have realized she had to switch the radio over to C-W  (or Tone or MCW) mode before trying to key it!

The battery would have gone fast.  Perhaps,  if the radio was  being Morse-keyed in Voice mode, which it wasn't designed for, something in the transmitter - a relay contact, or the modulation transformer - may have fried itself... and, even if they had an engine running to supply power, their lifeline was still cut.

It is a shame that Amelia was not more radio-savvy, and from the Gurr letter she appears to have been either overconfident of her ability to "learn on the job" or simply unconcerned.

By the way... speaking of the Gurr letter:  I have read it a couple of times, and some things bother me; and not just about the technical side. What was the source?  Has anyone seen the original letter from Gurr, or is it merely a copy of something from Fred Goerner?  Anyone analyzed the letter for writing style, comparing it to Goerner's?

A number of the things Gurr  tells about just seem to "fit" Goerner's hypotheses rather conveniently - which is okay I guess, if Goerner indeed used Gurr as a source....

Also:

Seems to me, if Gurr held all the licenses he claimed to have had, he also would have possessed an Amateur Extra Class ham ticket (the highest class), not an Advanced... that's sort of like the difference between a First Class Radiotelegraph and a Second Class.

(Back in the 1930s, however,  ham license classes were structured a little differently.  He may have held a "Class-A" license, which was (I believe) redesignated in the late 40s or early 50s to Advanced Class.  I am not exactly certain when the Amateur Extra license came into being...)

 Did he also have an Aircraft Radiotelegraph endorsement on his First-Tel? Can someone check the FCC archives - if any exist? - to determine this?

Reason I bring this up:  The CAA might have required such an endorsement to work on avionics, especially airline service..  Also, the exam  (Element VII) for the Aircraft endorsement included a great deal of material on general aerial navigation practices, as well as the tech aspect of nav-aid equipment.  It'd be helpful in establishing his credibility, to know if he had this endorsement (if it indeed was required then).  It seems that, if he had  held it, he would have mentioned it in his credentials.

For whatever that may be worth.

It also may mean nothing that the guy held only an Advanced Class ham license; for he may have simply decided he didn't want to take another exam... but if he had all the other top tickets, why not that one?  Most radio people would have gotten it as a matter of personal accomplishment..

For Vern Klein:  Do you have the schematics for the Electra radios?  May I somehow get a copy?  Pse QSO me off forum;  u hv my e-mail QTH.

73      CUL  GM (good morning)  AR
Mike
*************************************************************

From Ric

I agree that AE may not have known enough to switch to the CW setting before trying to send code by using the push-to-talk on the mic.  We do know, however, that the airplane originally had a key for sending Morse, so the switch was probably there.

The Gurr letter is a typed document signed by Gurr dated May 3, 1982.  The Q and A document consists of typed questions from Goerner (different type-face than Gurr's letter) with handwritten responses under them from Gurr.  It is undated and unsigned but the handwriting resembles Gurr's signature on the letter.  Both documents appear to be authentic.

It was the opinion of an earlier TIGHAR-member researcher (who had extensive experience in avionics) that Gurr's lengthening of the dorsal Vee antenna would have really screwed up her ability to transmit effectively on 3105 and 6210 without giving her any real transmit capability on 500 kc.  Agree? Disagree?

Anybody want to tackle getting Gurr's records from the FCC?  Did Amelia entrust her radio set up to an unqualified technician?  Inquiring minds want to know.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:13:11 EDT
From:         Same Ginder
Subject:      Niku IV or IIII?

Thanks for my TIGHAR number and why is Niku IIII not Niku IV?
***************************************************************

From Ric

Not Roman Innumeracy but Gimmicky Marketing.  On our logo for the expedition the IIII is supposed to suggest the slash of a tiger's (pun) claws.  I guess I was feeling pretty aggressive when I came up with that one.  Whether it "works" or not is open to discussion, but at this point we're kinda stuck with it.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:18:04 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      TIGHARs down under

Do we have any TIGHAR members in Victoria - south Australia ?  My researches show there's the fuselage of a Tachikawa Ki-54 there, at the Point Cook aircraft museum.

Might be able to examine the nose structure of this fuselage and eliminate the type as being a Wreck Photo candidate.

Simon

***************************************************************

From Ric

Excellent!  I had no idea that anybody had a Ki-54.  How about it?  Who wants to go to Point Cook?
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:16:08 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Radio installation, and Gurr

Lengthening the dorsal Vee on the aircraft would probably have enhanced her capability on 3105/6210 Khz.  A quarter-wavelength antenna, at those frequencies, would be about 75 ft/36ft long, respectively.  The closer one gets to a quarter wavelength, or longer  (i.e., the more wire is hanging out in the breeze) the better, because otherwise a loading coil or tuning unit must be employed to "electrically lengthen" the antenna.  Such devices do soak up some of the radio-frequency power.  The shorter the wire at a given frequency, the more loading inductance (coil) or capacitance must be used. So, saying it would have messed up transmit capability on high frequency - 3105/6210 - to lengthen the antenna is not so.  It would have helped - albeit not much at all - with 500 Khz output, to lengthen the Vee; but a quarter wavelength at 500 Khz is 465 (four hundred sixty-five) feet long! The trailing wire, if it was at least 150-200 feet long, would be the only way to go if she expected to be heard at all on 500, for any kind of distance.

After lengthening the Vee, all the tech would have to do, is readjust the transmitter output tuning/antenna loading to compensate.

I was not saying Gurr was "unqualified."  I merely stated that some things bothered me... for instance, why would he take the radios home to work on them... 12 volt batteries capable of handling this gear were uncommon in the 30s (even almost 100% of autos used 6 volt batteries) and 24 volts even more so... not to mention 12/14 or 24/28 volt chargers....

Wonder exactly what was that US Navy receiver Gurr mentioned?  Is there any way to find out?  Probably it was somehow obtained by moonlight requisitioning....?

I raised the question of license credentials to try and determine whether Gurr may have been "for real" or a figment of some author's imagination. Even with the further evidence of authenticity of this letter, it would still be nice to know this.

73      GA (Good afternoon)  AR
Mike E. the Radio Historian
***************************************************************

From Ric

There seems to be little doubt that Joe Gurr was a real person but there are some puzzling discrepancies in his account of what happened when.

At one point in the letter he says, "About this time I met Captain Harry Manning..."  This had to be no earlier than late February 1937 which is the first time that Harry Manning is on the West Coast with AE (having just flown back to Burbank from New York in the Electra with AE, GP and Bo McKneely).

Gurr says, "At this point we got into a hassle about the trailing wire antenna installed in the airplane, and which was intended for use on 500 kilohertz. The wire has a rather heavy lead ball attached to its end. ... I left the trailing wire reel installed, and it could be used."  That's fine except that photos of the plane taken around this time show that the trailing wire installation was changed from the standard Lockheed position in the tip of the tail to a mast protruding from the belly just forward of the cabin door.  Gurr says nothing about this change.

Gurr also says, "About this time we received a box marked U.S. Navy, containing a fine multi-frequency receiver, covering frequencies up to 20 megahertz. I do not know who was responsible for this acquisition, nor where it came from. I was pleased, as now the plane was capable of covering larger segments of frequencies which could be useful in radio communication, and even in radio direction finding. While the direction finding loop was designed for the lower frequencies, I found I could get a fairly good null on AM Broadcast Stations up to 1500KH. I figured it would probably be useful even on 3105KH if the received signal was strong enough."

Again, photos taken at this time show that the faired-over loop of the prototype Hooven/Bendix Radio Compass was removed and the open Bendix MN-5 (?) type loop installed.  Hooven says that his Radio Compass was replaced by an older type unit of lesser cpapbility.  He says nothing about a Navy radio.  We do know that Manning was a captain in the USN Reserve, so it is not beyond reason that he was able to borrow a radio.  We know that he borrowed a Pioneer bubble octant from the Navy at this time at Noonan's insistence.

The question of why Gurr took the radios home may be answered by the context in which he makes that comment. "The damaged plane was shipped back to Lockheed at Burbank for repair. I was called in regarding the radio installation, as everything had to be removed. I took the whole installation home." With the Electra all torn apart for repair at Lockheed he would not be able to work on the radios in the airplane.  It's clear that Gurr was not a Lockheed employee.

Gurr then says, "We designed a belly sensing antenna for preliminary reception of signals to be used for direction finding. I left the reel antenna on board, and it could have been used. Harry Manning knew how to switch it in if necessary. This work was done at Lockheed. However, Captain Harry Manning's leave of absence would now run out before Amelia could make her flight, so he bowed out and returned to Washington. Before he left, he and I had dinner and a long talk."

This is very strange.  As far as we know, Harry Manning did not hang around at all once they all got back to California aboard the S.S. Malolo after the Luke Field crack-up.  On the very day of the wreck Manning gives the borrowed octant to Noonan and gets a signed receipt.  Harry wants out, and it is hard to beleive that he would be around to design sense antennas, have dinner, etc. Also, photos show that the airplane came out of repairs on May 20 without any externally visible trailing wire installation.  I think that Gurr has his chronology mixed up.

We still don't know if the airplane left Miami with a dedicated DF radio.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:18:54 EDT
From:         Barb Norris
Subject:      Re: Noonan's drinking or not

I've had quite a bit of experience working in the drug and alcohol field and you are accurate in your assessment of the long term effects any drug has on the brain.  All of the problems you listed are indeed a reality with an addict.  Not to get too technical here, but drugs modulate the activity of a variety of brain chemicals, which all interact with one another...Dopamine, seratonin, etc...when combined with alcohol, or other chemicals, just drives those little neurotransmitters crazy.  Neurotransmitters are part of every thought, emotion, memory and learning we encounter.  To quote Dr. Eric Nestler of the Yale University School of Medicine, "Drugs are like sledgehammers. They profoundly alter many pathways." Scary huh?

Although abstinence helps, unless a recovery program is in progress, the addict is always rationalizing, justifying and manipulating his/her way toward taking that next drink or drug.  That alone can alter one's rationale and reasoning capabilities.  I'd like to think that Fred would never have jeopardized Amelia and himself for any reason, but I know addiction and it doesn't ever have a conscience. So, my vote goes that unless we get ol' Fred to agree to a blood test (good luck!), we'll really never know unless someone uncovers medical documentation. Until that happens - it's just "talk."

LTM,
Barbara Norris #2175
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:35:46 EDT
From:         Ted Whitmore
Subject:      Roving Recruiters

Why not spend the cost of a booth at EAA TO buy a bunch of Tee shirts emblazoned with something like this

                                Wannabe a  TIGHAR?

                           (---------------TIGHAR LOGO-------------)

                                    Searching for

                                AMELIA EARHART

Sell them to members going to EAA, supply them with a brochure describing TIGHAR and including  application forms and let them be walking recruiting booths at no cost to TIGHAR.

As a matter of fact, sell them (for a price that TIGHAR can make a buck or two) to anyone that'll buy one and turn all of us into recruiters.  Who knows, this might find some new members with deep pockets. I'll order the first 2 right now.

Then get all members to contact ABC and Discovery Channel requesting another run of the documentaries we've just enjoyed, for some  FREE ADVERTISING.

Ted Whitmore  #2169
***************************************************************
From Ric

As they say in Hollywood, I like the concept.  I don't really think that it's necessary to do dedicated shirts though. Experience has shown that if you wear a TIGHAR T-shirt at an aviation event, people will stop you and talk to you. Some will also verbally abuse you. (Incredible as it seems, not everyone agrees with us.) Others, however, will envy you and bend your ear for hours and may even end up joining.

If you're planning on going to Oshkosh and are willing to take the risk, we'll supply you with brochures to hand out.  Just send me an email.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:54:59 EDT
From:         Kris Tague
Subject:      Ongoing support

Please sign me up for two years - I believe that you have my cc info. I was thinking about other donations, and not being in a position to give you a lump sum I thought of Public TV Pledges. If you are up to the paperwork I'll pledge $20.00 per month which you could debit on the credit card until further notice ...:). Maybe there are others in the same position who could do the same.

LTM
Kris
*************************************************************

From Ric

No paperwork problem here.  It's a wonderful idea for anyone with an ongoing ommitment to the project.  Besides, we're more historically accurate than Public Television anyway.

Thank you Kris.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:03:31 EDT
From:         Andrew Thorpe
Subject:      Ball for progress

I must say again how surprising it was to get you two on the phone so easily! Please extend my membership for another year under your current "sale" as I am interested to see your project continue etc.  I think you still have my Visa number and all that.

I will await my stamped and signed Tighar Special Edition ping pong ball set when you finally have them ready! Do they come in a selection of designer colours? (Still think this is a good idea. Kinda like the physical equivalent to the "Love to Mother" line of thinking.) Anyway,  good luck with your funding drive.

Regards,
Andrew Thorpe
2135

P.S. The prop starts up, doesn't shut off however. Running a Mac with Netscape 3.01

**************************************************************

From Ric

Andrew suggested that we sell commemorative ping pong balls.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:37:33 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Funding Report 7/22/98

Report for 7/21/98

One Year New Memberships - 0
Special Two Year New Memberships - Joel Dunlap 2183

One Year Renewals - 0
Special Two Year Renewals - Ellwood 2120, Tierny 0821, Robinson 2114, McKenna 1045C, Boyle 2060, Baird 2160, Tague 0905CE, Thorpe 2135

Subtotal - $630

Publications and merchandise orders - 0

Special Contributions:
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $30
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $130

Subtotal - $160

Total this date - $790
Total to date - $6,094.70
Still to raise - $43,905.30
Days remaining - 40

Note:  All donations to TIGHAR are tax deductible within the limits of U.S. law.  Contributions of stock rather than cash can have significant additional benefits to the contributor through the avoidance of capital gains taxes. Consult your tax preparer for advice on how to make your contribution to TIGHAR best benefit both you and the organization.

Not bad for a Tuesday (traditionally a slow day).  Thank you.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:50:04 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Antennas

I have agonized over the purpose of her second belly wire, which was std. with just about every 'large aircraft' from the early '30's to 1950 or so, for the pilots 200-400 kc range recvr.  But there was no mention of AE having one, thus no need for other than a sense ant on the bottom.

All band set were common on aircraft carrying a FRO (flt. rad. op.). They also had a 200-400 band, but it was not used by the pilots. Since AE could tune it, it could take the place of the std. 200-400 recvr. With the overhead V for both xmtg. & her 4-band recvr., the loss of the belly ant's at Lae had no bearing on her inability to recv.  The contacs in a T/R relay were thus a prime suspect.    BUT  Try this for size:

The 4-band was connected to the std. belly ant., the xmtr. hard wired (or thru a T/R relay) to the top V.  The knife sw. conn. either the belly wire or the loop to the 4-band.  The loss of the belly wires at Lae thus wiped out her recv. ant. except for the loop.  AE choose the 'strange' 7500 for an attempt at a null because having heard nothing on all of the other freq's, why not try one on another band?    RC  941

**************************************************************

From Ric

You've come full circle to the set-up I theorized (albeit, out of ignorance) when we first noted the coincidence that both the belly antenna  and receiving capability seemed to have been lost.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:07:21 EDT
From:         Russ Matthews
Subject:      Balls for progress

>Andrew (Thorpe) suggested that we sell commemorative ping pong balls.

I'll take one.  How much?

LTM,
Russ
*************************************************************
From Ric

Oh my God.  Are we really going to do this?  Specially stamped, numbered and signed, limited edition Amelia Earhart ping pong balls?  AE and Fred are not available at the moment so I'll have to do the signing (unless we could get Barb Wiley to do the honors).  Somebody suggest a price.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:56:11 EDT
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Balls for Progress

Ric wrote:

>Oh my God.  Are we really going to do this?  Specially stamped, numbered and
>signed, limited edition Amelia Earhart ping pong balls?  AE and Fred are not
>available at the moment so I'll have to do the signing (unless we could get
>Barb Wiley to do the honors).  Somebody suggest a price.

How about having a miniature Electra inside the ping pong ball so it floats when it crash lands on the water? <<sorry couldn't resist>>

Craig Fuller
Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
AAIR                   www.sonic.net/azfuller
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:59:51 EDT
From:         Dusty
Subject:      Tin can corrugations and roving supporters

In trying every possible avenue to discover the truth about the "ROWER PRODUCE" label from the can, and reading about the striations possibly caused by marks from the corrugations of the can - I happened on the following website - www.itri.co.uk/profile - They are located in England and according to their website... "Itri is the world's foremost authority on tin and its applications"

This company has a library - The librarian's name is listed as Lindsey Hobbs. Again, according to their website the library has on-line search capabilities of over one hundred data bases. I know tin cans are not made out of tin - but with such wide reaching research capabilities, I thought it worth asking. So, I e-mailed Lindsey and asked (him/her) to tell me if possible if tin a tin can with 1/8 " corrugations, or any corrugations for that matter, would have indeed existed in 1937.

Today, I received a reply from an Amy Chesworth at ITRI who said "... I can tell you that in 1937 corrugated cans were not invented/in use. They were invented later to add strength to the can."

I am writing back to find out what source she used to gather that information and when corrugation on cans started and could the striations be caused by anything else other than marks from corrugation.

I would have waited to e-mail you this after I got more information, but I am leaving for vacation tomorrow and will not be back for a while.

However, having studied around 50 can labels (and counting) in whole or part from 1920-1940, it seems very possible that the label could be from 1937. I say this because the richness of the colors seems to correlate with labels of that period, as does "ROWER PRODUCE". Although I have not found "grower" followed by "produce" on any label yet, one or the other word is used quite often on fruit can labels (- not very often on vegetable labels) of that period.

By the way - in response to the roving TIGHAR at Oshkosh idea - I live in Cleveland Ohio and would be very happy to be a roving TIGHAR representative at the CLeveland International Air Show on Labor Day weekend. I usually go at least two out of the three days - One of the days this year, however, I'll be working for the International Woman's Air and Space Museum which just moved up here - but for one or possibly both of the other days, I'd be happy to rove up and down the show area promoting TIGHAR - I'd happily wear my shirt on my  vacation and generate interest in upstate new york - if I had my tee shirt by now  :>- say, my check didn't bounce, did it? :<

I'll update you as soon as I can with any more information about tin can history, etc, upon my return from New York.

Love To Mother - Dusty
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:10:36 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      Tidal wave?

Sorry guys...I found that article I was talking about yesterday.  It was Rabaul, but it was a new volcano being born on May 28th (37) Destroyed the towm and killed over 500 people.  Large tidal waves and earthquakes for 24 hours.  UP reported it.  I have the article if anyone is interested.

Don
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:50:06 EDT
From:         Tom Cook
Subject:      Label Logic

I was born in Jan. of 1938, so I was a kid during WW2, one of my jobs around the house was to recycle empty "tin cans", I would remove the label, wash them out inside, turn them upside down and cut the other end out (no electric can openers in those days!), put both ends inside , and then step on the can to mash it flat, we would turn them in at the next scrap drive.     What all of this is coming to is that I don't recall any corrugations in the sides of the cans at that time.
TC 2127
***************************************************************

From Ric

We seem to have a building body of anecdotal evidence to indicate that corrugations did not exist on cans in 1937.  If this proves to be documentable it presents two possibilities (that I can think of) about our label fragment: 1.  What we take to be marks left by corrugations are something else. 2.  The label dates from later than 1937.

Of course, the two possibilities are not mutually exclusive.  They could both be true.

One possible indication that No. 1 is the case is the fact that the striations on the fragment (best observed on the reverse of the label) appear to begin right at the top of the (implied) can rather than 5/8ths of an inch down from the top, which seems to be the way most 1/8th inch corrugations appear on cans.

Other evidence we have to help us date the label:

-  a trace of what might be a barcode that is not right for a standard UPC barcode.
-  a consensus among informed observers that the colors and styling of the label are typical of the 1920s and 30s.
-  the stratigraphic level at which the fragment was found (ca. 5 cm below the surface) which would seem to indicate that it had been in situ for many, many years.

Further research which might more conclusively date the fragment:

-  Dating of the paper and inks through materials analysis. 
-  Matching of the surviving fragment with a datable entire label.

Have I missed anything?

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:30:14 EDT
From:         Kary
Subject:      Label fragment

I am not a member yet but am considering it. Now seems like a good time.

I have been reading and enjoying your forum a lot.

About the tin can . Why could the can not have been smooth and there simply have been glue stripes? They had to apply the glue some way unless they used a brush. Maybe some history if found could tell us how the glue was applied in what period.

Thanks so much.  Kary
***************************************************************

Fromn Ric

What has made us suspect that the marks are from corrugations rather than stripes of glue is that the striations seem to be three-dimensional, like ridges and grooves.  Removing a label for a modern corrugated can produces much the same effect.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:35:38 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Label fragment

I know I'm late to the tin can issue, but from what Ric just said down below is it possible that the assumed "marks left by corrugations " are actually marks left from the glue holding the paper to the can?  If I was to glue a paper label onto the flat metal surface of a can, ringing the can with several rows of glue would certainly be an option.

As for the striations, those could result from the glue hardening over a prolonged time and then having the paper label pressed firmly onto the can, as could happen if the can had been in storage for several weeks/months before it was opened.

As a kid in the 1950s, I used to have to stock the shelves in my family's store back in West Union, Iowa.  Many times I found "corrugated" labels on cans due to the label being pressed into the "new" corrugated type of cans.  A similar phenomena may have occurred on your sample.

Comments?
**************************************************************
From Ric

As part of the materials analysis it should be possible to look for traces of glue and maybe even date the type of glue.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:46:52 EDT
From:         Andrew Thorpe
Subject:      TIGHAR Balls

Got another idea.

Sorry about the Tighar Ball thing. Was thinking its like your Niku IIII thing with cat scratches. (Its been really hot up here this year. Perhaps you can blame it on the heat....) Anyway, How about approaching the ping pong suppliers for a bin of 'donation' balls, have the things stamped, see if Barb can sign em, or all three of you for that matter, and send them out in sets of 3 (don't quite know why 3).

I could see $25 US for the effort. Just think of the pride one would have if and when you do find the  plane. If you never do find it, at least we all could get out of our armchairs for a moment and give ping pong a go. Of course the real cool thing to do is have them packaged in a reproduction sextant box. I think I'd better shut up now...

Regards,
Andrew
2135

**************************************************************

From Ric

Andrew, take three ping pong balls and call me in the morning.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:59:39 EDT
From:         Chester Baird
Subject:      Bananas

Has anyone checked with the printing museums in the produce areas of the USA.  California, Florida, Georgia, Texas etc? They may have some thing to add to the label research.

If the can held bananas, it was probably canned in either Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, Florida, or California. These are the areas that the USA generally imports bananas.  They probably would not have been shipped far before canning.

LTM
Chester
#2160
***************************************************************

From Ric

Research by the International Banana Association in Washington, DC (everybody has a lobby) has shown that in the mid-1930s bananas were being canned for the U.S. market in Honduras.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:04:38 EDT
From:         Forest Blair
Subject:      Canton Aerial photos

We were not aware of any air photos taken of Canton during the 1970-71 period.  I do have some 35mm slides from this time period that Bruce and I have been viewing to assist our brain action in remembering names, etc.  So far we have identified some Global employees including their on-site chief, Tom Lawrence, Lt. Col. USAF (Ret,).  Am requesting USAF Personnel Center to help locate Lawrence.  He possibly could confirm location where Bruce found the engine.

Am still trying to determine any reason(s) we would have flown all the way to Gardener--even as a joy ride.  Gardener was 200+ miles farther away from our missile splash down areas than Hull, thus decreased scoring accuracy. Still waiting for response from military mapping/chart people to determine if we ever took surveyors to Gardener for celestial "shots" as they did on Canton, Enderbury and Hull.  Have received letter from Department of AF, History Office which lists Canton, Enderbury and Hull as radar sites.  It also states, "A fourth, Birnie, was considered but not initially used because it was a bird sanctuary."  Note:  Gardener was not mentioned; it was just too far away from our target area.

John's info on SAMTEC 's 1979 phasedown plan could lead to some aerials, but Bruce's engine would have been buried by then.  For your info, The SAMTEC/AFS , I believe, is now called Los Angeles AFB and is in El  Segundo. It used to be called an Air Force Station.  The XR indicates the Plans Office.  Has anyone worked this area yet?

A couple of our slides above show the wrecked fishing boat on Sidney. In closing, I just feel that the engine was found on Sidney, Phoenix or Hull--no proof.  Gardener was just too far away.  Since Roger Clapp didn't go there then, and unless Lawrence or the mapping agencies show otherwise, I must believe the engine was found closer to Canton.  Would an engine from the crashed C-47 at Sidney look like the one in Bruce's photos?

Forest, #2149
****************************************************************

From Ric

A photo taken by Bruce's buddy Del Saylor on Sydney shows two 14-cylinder, twin-row radials.  That is consistent with the P&W R1830s used on C-47s. 
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:41:36 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Label of Niku: Dating can

I've just received e-mail response (7-22-98) to my question regarding the age of the label fragment from Seneca Foods Corp.  They make the "Libby's" line of products.  Their first response was to ask for more information. There was little more I could give them.  But I tried.  Hence my rather long message quoted below.

Did I ask the right question?  Did I characterize the corrugations correctly? I don't think the questions were too "leading."  Here is the e-mail from Seneca:

                    ********************************

Dear Mr. Klein,

The type of bead profile you described indicates to us well after 1937.  If we had to make a guess it would be after 1965.  We are sorry we could not give you additional information.

Sincerely,
Seneca Foods Corporation

Here is my original letter:

We are attempting to date a fragment of a label from a can of some unknown
product that was found on a tiny, uninhabited island in the South Pacific
Ocean.  The label shows clear imprint from corrugations (beads) on the can
it was once on.  These corrugations were of the kind seen on virtually every
can in the grocery stores today.  Starting about 5/8 inch from the top of
the can, there were continuous ridges spaced about 1/8 inch apart.  It is my
impression that such "beading" was not common until the welded seam came
into use.  A few older cans I've been able to find that have a crimped and
soldered seam do have a few corrugations but they are wider spaced.  I
believe the welded seam and close-spaced corrugations are a rather recent
innovation in can making.

Our basic question is, could the can from which that label came have existed
as early as 1937?

We hope that your knowledge of the evolution of the "tin can" may enable you
to help us establish an approximate "earliest" date for our label fragment.

Thank you for your consideration.  Vern Klein
***************************************************************

From Ric

The only nit I would pick with your letter is your characterization of the ridges or beads as starting 5/8 inch from the top of the can.  Of course, you were simply repeating what I had told you earlier, but upon closer examination it would appear I was wrong about that (well, there's a first time for everything).

What we need is some good photography with lighting that will show exactly what we're talking about here.  We'll get that and make it available on the TIGHAR website soon. 

Meanwhile, it does seem that can corrugations are a relatively recent development.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:56:40 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Canton Aerial photos

I believe that Roger Clapp did go to Gardner during this time, as a survey of the island for possible environmental impact.  Is that your recollection, Ric?

*************************************************************

From Ric

SAMTEC memo of 14 May 1971 from Major Ronald Akers to RDSE (?) makes it clear that Clapp was "in the islands" from 13 April to 27 April, 1971.  Akers says, " I ... requested that during his time there he make every effort to determine in general how, after some six months of our presence there, we are treating the ecology of the islands..."
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:48:57 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Antennas

Ric wrote:

>You've come full circle to the set-up I theorized (albeit, out of ignorance)
>when we first noted the coincidence that both the belly antenna  and receiving
>capability seemed to have been lost.

This has seemed pretty reasonable to me also.  The thing that bothers me is whether or not this is a workable thing.  Maybe someone has experience/knowledge to answer the question.

Would it be feasible -- maybe not prudent -- to have the belly antenna connected to the receiver while transmitting with the "V" on top?  Would there be real danger of blowing some of the input circuitry of the receiver?

It's hard to believe the aircraft body would shield one antenna from the other well enough to avoid this problem.  Who knows what the field-strength pattern around the plane would be?  Do you just try it and see what happens?

And there is the possibility that someone -- maybe Gurr? -- thinking innovatively wired things so that the T/R relay in the transmitter still "grounded" the receiver input when transmitting.  One probably could have wired it such that the receiving antenna (belly) was disconnected too.  I think he might have had to go inside the transmitter to do that.

But why?  Why not do it the "normal" way and use the "V" for both transmitting and receiving?
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:51:23 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Gurr correspondence

Gurr's letters make some very fascinating reading, however he never provides any conclusive reasons for the failure of Earhart to receive the messages from Itasca (all except one) & seems to proffer the explanation that her unfamiliarity with the use of the radio equipment was mainly responsible for the failure to establish two-way communications with Itasca.

He also seemed to hold the opinion that Harry Mannng would have been a far better choice as navigator on the flight , because of his greater familiarity with the use of the radio & D/F: however I would suggest his "friendship" developed with Manning during his work on the Electra's radio gear probably influenced such opinion.

He did seem to be of the opinion that the radio & direction finding equipment on board would have been sufficient for AE. to find Howland, providing it was in good working order & competently operated.

Additionally, he seemed to make the point that for the last several hundred miles of the flight, the proper use of the direction finding equipment was the critical element in reaching Howland, rather than the navigational skills of Noonan & that it was essential that AE be able to establish two-way contact with Itasca's signal  in order to "home-in" on their radio "beam".

It is too bad he's no longer available to be interviewed, if only to explore with him the many areas of his story requiring greater clarification & explanation as well as the many questions that Fred Goerner failed to ask or follow-up (presumably because he was only trying to validate his own version of the flight).

Many thanks for providing this correspondence for my review.

Don Neumann=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:53:14 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Radio installation, and Gurr

Mike Everette wrote:

>I was not saying Gurr was "unqualified."  I merely stated that some things
>bothered me... for instance, why would he take the radios home to work on
>them... 12 volt batteries capable of handling this gear were uncommon in the
>30s (even almost 100% of autos used 6 volt batteries) and 24 volts even more
>so... not to mention 12/14 or 24/28 volt chargers....

Mike:  You connect two 6-volt batteries in series for 12 volts.  And you charge them individually, or the two connected in parallel, with a 6-volt charger.

Taking the stuff home to work on it doesn't surprise me.  I've done it every now and then over the years.  One way or another I come up with the required operating voltage.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1998 21:59:37 EDT
From:         Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Canton to Gardner

Forest Blair wrote:

>I just feel that the engine was found on Sidney, Phoenix or
>Hull--no proof.  Gardner was just too far away. "

I have often wondered about the distance issue. What type of helicopters were used?  Range?

*************************************************************

From Ric

They were Sikorsky H-3s.  We worked it all out in some detail when we were first evaluating the credibility of Bruce's story.  It works.  we also have photos of the H-3s over Gardner courtesy of Roger Clapp.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:56:29 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Re: Antennas

>The 4-band (receiver) was connected to the std. belly ant. the xmtr. hard
>wired (or thru a T/R relay) to the top V.

Sorry, I can't buy it.

Let's get down to Basic Antennas 101.  Nearly all of the properties possessed by an antenna as a radiator (antenna when transmitting) also apply when it is used for reception.  Current and voltage distribution, impedance, resistance and directional characteristics are the same in a receiving antenna if it were used as a transmitting antenna.  This reciprocal behavior makes possible the design of a receiving antenna of optimum performance based on the same considerations that are used to design a transmitting antenna.  This theory was as well known by the engineers and technicians of 1937, as it is today.

Why would an engineer/technician design an HF Radio System using an 18-foot antenna wire to receive on 3105kc and 6210kc when there is a 54.5-foot transmit antenna wire available, to the receiver, through the Antenna Relay? No way.  It never happened.

 The bottom line is that on receive, a resonant wire antenna has better capture (of signals) area and hence, has superior receiving capabilities.

Love To Mother,

Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 08:15:17 EDT
From:         Dean Alexander
Subject:      Re: Label Logic

> the stratigraphic level at which the fragment was found (ca. 5 cm below the
> surface) which would seem to indicate that it had been in situ for many, many
> years.

If one followed his/her Boy/Girl Scout procedures one would have put water on the campfire and soil over it. Since this label was found at a campsite this is a possibility. Hence the label fragment being under some amount of soil.
**************************************************************

From Ric

True enough.  But if our campfire is the same campfire that Gallagher found in 1940, the individual whose bones were found nearby was probably no overly concerned with good scouting procedures.  On the other hand, if the label is of much more recent origin then it can't be the same site.

The shoe remnants found virtually on top of the campfire site in 1991 are known to date from the mid-1930s. If the fire site dates from much later, then the shoe must have arrived even later than that.  It would sure be a lot simpler if that label is old.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 08:43:24 EDT
From:         Dick Pingrey
Subject:      Renewal and chapters

My check for extended membership will follow by snail mail (the check's in the mail).  A couple of other thoughts came to mind for possible consideration.  How about organizing some local area TIGHAR Chapters. Chapters might be able to promote TIGHAR activities in their area through special presentations to civic organization and educational organizations as well as aviation related groups.  I gave an evening presentation on the Earhart search effort by TIGHAR to the local chapter of the Washington Pilots' Association and found there was considerable interest that demonstrated itself in the many questions that were asked.

How about a training program or materials packet for members interested in making these kinds of presentations and organizing a TIGHAR Chapter?

I am certain that you and Pat have been extremely busy with the Forum but what is happening with the other TIGHAR research projects.  Are there any training activities planed to qualify TIGHAR members to participate in field research efforts?  I know this is an Earhart Forum but is nice to know what is happening in these other areas of research with a brief update now and then.

I vote for $20 plus shipping and handling for two ping pong balls with the likeness of Amelia on one and Fred on the other.  Add the words, "Help TIGHAR discover their fate once and for all" and end it with "Love to Mother".  Get at least 100 orders prior to making up any sets of balls to make certain it is worth doing.  A certificate with the balls that give the purpose and meaning might be a good idea.  If the cost per set is more that $5 bring the price up accordingly. 

Dick Pingrey 908C
**************************************************************

From Ric

Thank you Dick.
We've often considered and, on occasion tried to organize, local chapters. The problem seems to be that TIGHAR's projects tend to be large and centralized rather than small and localized.  There really hasn't been much for local chapters to do but sit around and talk about what's happening in Wilmington, and that's not much fun.  On the other hand, the advent of widespread email capability has made it possible to communicate directly and rapidly.  Over the past six months the forum has become our primary research tool so that what happens at TIGHAR does not so much happen in Wilmington, Delaware as it does right here on everyone's own computer screen.  It's like one big local chapter without the hassle of deciding who is going to bring the cookies to the next meeting.

At the same time, occasional face to face meetings are important - if hard to organize.  The recent conference in San Carlos gave about 20 of us a chance to put faces on names and personalities we already knew.  There were a lot of jokes about turning Cyber-Celebrities into real people, but it does make a difference. Maybe periodic conferences are the way to go.  We could also combine them with training sessions in the principles of historical investigation, aviation archeology and preservation.  Feedback on this from the forum would be helpful.

As for the ping pong balls, I expect to have something a whole lot more attractive available soon.  Not to be mysterious, but I'm expecting information via snailmail on a commemorative item I think everyone will like. I should have more on this soon.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 08:50:59 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      archives

Damn it!  You always lose the one you wanted to keep!

Can someone re-post that posting containing what little we know about Gallagher, his mother, etc., or send it to me by direct e-mail??

Thanks much!
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:15:59 EDT
From:         Daryll Bolinger
Subject:      Earhart's Mission

Thanks for allowing me acess to your forum.

My name is Daryll Bolinger I am an A&P mechanic who first became interested in AE sometime in the mid 80's. At that time I read everything I could get my hands on. I think Fred Goerner's book was the first. I then proceeded to read in order of the copywrite date  the books that followed. I think it was about six (6) months of reading and compiling and cross checking different resources it seemed to be quite confusing sometimes.

I began to feel that I knew AE and Putnam, Fred and the times they lived in. Ric has taken on a big task to find them, and their airplane.  My research I believe got me close to defining the mission she was on. I got stumped because my friends soon dried up as a source for ideas and motivation. I'm  just recently on the net and I thought I could share my theories and thoughts here.

This is my theory of her mission.

AE was a radio target for testing and calibrating the antennas and system for the Mid-Pacific Strategic Direction-Finder Net which was a part of OP-20-G of the Navy, according to sources this net became operational in 1937, the year AE disappeared. Commander Laurence F. Safford is given credit for being responsible for Mid-Pacific Net and a similar net in the Atlantic. This Pre-WWll system I  compare with today's spy satellites. It was top secret stuff, even though  the highest classification was secret. This stuff people would die for. Unfortunately I think AE and Fred did just that. This Mid-Pacific Net was run by the code-breakers before the war. Two important phases were involved Direction finding and Traffic analysis. Direction finding operators in the net using two bearings could tell where the transmitter was, i.e. Battleship. Traffic analysis could tell who was talking to who i.e. Admiral to the fleet. Some radio operators could  recognize another radio operator by their keystrokes. I believe when this Net came on line in 1937, the Navy or I should say OP-20-G needed to calibrate their antennas and the Navy needed a fast moving target that could locate itself over known landmasses or islands. AE fit the bill a person in the right place at the right time to serve her country. I read some people thought she was stupid for leaving her trailing antenna in Miami. I think the Navy convinced her that they would know where she was every inch of the way across the Pacific, and she would be better off with that weight in gasoline. I believe the plan was for Fred to put AE and the airplane over certain islands or island groups, AE would broadcast maybe a code so the antennas would fix the location of the transmitter for the Navy. This could explain confusion over the radio usage. I have been searching for an unpublished work titled " AMELIA EARHART'S LAST FLIGHT: A TRAGEDY OF ERRORS," Complied by Captain L.F. SAFFORD, USN, Ret. I believe this is the same SAFFORD  that built the Mid- Pacific Net. This work was mentioned in "WORLD FLIGHT, THE EARHART TRAIL" by Ann Pellegreno; Iowa State University Press. If some one has seen this work I would like to know. This is where one of my trails ran dry. This work could be by the man who was closest to the actual events of that last flight I am hoping to read between the lines. Is there anybody out there still alive to tell us about OP-20-G anybody from the ships " The Gold Star, Blackhawk, Chaumont and Henderson", these were radio spy ships of that era I was at least able to confirm the Blackhawk as one. I would like the Radio experts in the forum to comment on high frequency radio direction finding. I can't believe after all these years this can still be secret. I guess one of the more ironic things about the intelligence gathered just prior to WWll from intercepted radio traffic was that it all was illegal. Section 605 of the Federal Communications Act of 1934, which prohibits wiretaps, also prohibits the interception of messages between foreign countries and the United States and territories. General  Malin Craig, Chief of Staff from 1937-1939, was acutely aware of this. I do have my reading list in support of anything I say if anyone is interested. I'm  sorry for the length of this letter and I hope Ric is kind enough to put it on the forum. Thank You.

DARYLLB
****************************************************************

From Ric

I've put this message on the forum as an example of the kind of message that we really would rather not put on the forum. I'll put this as gently as possible:

The books you've read were full of information that is not true.

We are trying to piece together what really happened by starting with the facts as documented in original sources.  Those facts do not support your theory.  We have a copy of Safford's work but it wouldn't do you any good if you're determined to "read between the lines."

My advice - read the forum postings for a while and see how an historical investigation is carried out.  On the other hand, if you can't shake your preconceived notions of secret government projects and conspiracies you may want to just sign off now before we frustrate you.  I hope you'll stick with us.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:20:05 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: a year on Niku

So, how do we contact Australian Geographic????

Tom King
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:30:30 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      tsunamis

Given the remoteness of Niku from virtually everything else in the world I imagine the tsunamis we'd have to worry about would be those we DON'T read about in the news or see on the telly right?  Is there a source of information on geological disturbances that might cause unreported waves in our area of concern?  If there is such a source I assume it would be good only for the last decade or so - right?

LTM
TKing
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:41:57 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Label Fragment

>-  the stratigraphic level at which the fragment was found (ca. 5 cm below
>the surface) which would seem to indicate that it had been in situ for many,
>many years.

It ain't necessarily so.  Remember that the label was found in screening the detritus removed while exposing the burn feature; it could have come from anywhere in the 5 cm. overlying the feature, and 5 cm. ain't much dirt, especially in an active environment like Niku's.  Stratigraphic position of the label really isn't known, except that it was SOMEWHERE in the top 5 cm., and it wouldn't be meaningful if it were known.

Tom King
Earhart Project Archeologist
***************************************************************

From Ric

Ahh but Dr. King, was not the label fragment burned around the edges and would it not therefore seem to be logically as old as the fire that burned it? Ergo, if the stratigraphy of the burn feature suggests some measure of antiquity that deduction also applies to the label fragment - unless, of course, somebody just happened to drop a burned fragment of a label on the ground in a spot where there just happened to be the remains of an old campfire underneath.

Realistically, it seems to me that dating the burn feature and dating the label fragment is the same exercise.  Am I missing something?

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:59:51 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Radio installation and test procedures

Yes, it is certainly true that one could always come up with the required voltage by using multiple batteries, etc.  The point I should have made, but for some reason did not, was that even now, few of us have extra car batteries lying around.  In the not-quite-post-Depression 30's, I would think it even less likely.  That does not, in and of itself, preclude Gurr from coming up with the right voltage at his home test bench to check out the gear.

What seems more likely to hinder any proper testing effort is the following observation, based on my experience...  I know how hard it can be to come up with a bench test wiring harness, especially to obtain the needed connector plugs, to be able to lash up aircraft gear for a complete checkout... especially if the equipment is designed to be installed in such a manner that it is controlled remotely --  using various switch boxes and control or tuning heads.   If, as Gurr says, he was unfamiliar with the equipment, had no diagrams, etc., he would not have been able to easily trace out all the many connector pins to figure out what they did - not easy to do at all.  An aircraft transmitter of this period would likely have had these functions:  band change (up to 3 or 4 wires probably), mode switching (C-W, Voice, M-C-W - up to 3 or 4 wires probably), mic audio input, keying/push-to-talk, receiver muting (up to 2 or 3 wires); ground, primary power (12-24 volts), and depending upon whether the dynamotor was inside or outside the transmitter case, leads to bring in one or perhaps two levels of high voltage; plus some other wires like "switched" primary power and one or two leads to activate the power-unit control solenoids... so we're talking a big, probably round connector like a Cannon plug.  There could easily be 16 or more wires going into the transmitter... and believe me it is not easy to hook up something like this with test clip leads!  The receiver would present a similar problem.  The plugs, etc., would be expensive but of course GPP or AE could have provided the tech with whatever he might have needed to get this job done.  What I'm getting to is, this wouldn't be a one-night job.

As for the antennas:  I tend to agree with K6EMN's posting on that score. The dorsal antenna would have been used for transmit and receive - more than likely.  It is conceivable that Gurr, or whoever did any work on the rig, may have thought he "had a better idea..."  we can't rule that out, even though as K6EMN says,  using the belly antenna to receive doesn't make much sense.

I am not an expert on CAA regulations of the 30's, by any stretch; but I'd be willing to bet there was a lot more freedom to "experiment" with radio equipment, and methods of installation or interconnection, than there is today.  By the way, didn't the Electra's registration number, beginning with "NR-", place it into some special or even "experimental" or "limited" category, which might have allowed even more latitude? (Non-commercial, at least...?)

To answer Vern's question: "Not bloody likely"  that the receiver would be in any danger of damage or "burnout" from the transmitter, even if a separate antenna was used and the receiving antenna wasn't shorted to ground on transmit.  Tubes are very tolerant of overload, far more so than solid state gear.  And for many many years, hams have employed separate antennas on their rigs if they use fairly low power, like this 50-watt setup.  When you get into the power range above 150-200 watts, it is time to take some precautions, however....

Yes, it would have taken a modification of the transmitter to get a connection to the T/R relay allowing a separate receiving antenna to be grounded on transmit.  I would bet that this was not ever done.  It would not have been deemed necessary.

I believe the belly antenna may have been intended for use as the DF sense antenna.  It is not beyond the realm of possibility that at some point, someone --? - could have, in error, connected the wrong antenna lead to the four-band receiver...!!  Thus, if she lost that antenna at takeoff from Lae, she had no antenna on receive.

The only way we will ever know, is to find the plane - and hope there is enough of it left to allow examination in detail of the radio hookup.  This should be made a priority for the expedition team:  to document this as closely as possible, before any remains of the plane/equipment are disturbed in any way that would prevent such investigation.  This would be the key to "why" she lost communication.  Such documentation should also include what positions the switches are in:  i.e., voice or C-W mode; DF or communications, etc... and to what frequencies the equipment was last tuned or set.

As for the matter of antenna "matching:"  I agree with K6EMN on this. However, the likelihood is that any antenna tuning or coupling unit in this system would be used to match the transmitter only, to the antenna. Aircraft receivers of this period had high-impedance antenna inputs.  The length of wire was not really critical, as long as it wasn't TOO short.  An antenna trimmer control ( usually a capacitor) would allow a "range" of matching the receiver to the antenna.

Regarding keying relays in the transmitter:  They would control several functions.  These include switching the antenna from trans to receive; starting the dynamotor; muting the receiver; and actually "keying"  (opening or closing) some circuit or circuits in one or more "stages" of the transmitter (applying  voltages, or grounding something).  This adds up to big clunky relays with many sets of contacts.  There might have been a lot of potential for something to corrode, arc over, or get out of adjustment - any of which could have resulted in failure of communication.

73      GA  GL  Best DX  AR
Mike E. the Radio Historian
*************************************************************

From Ric

Just a couple of quick comments:

It's a mistake to assume that GPP and AE could get Gurr anything he wanted, regardless of cost.  They were extremely strapped for cash at this time.  They had to beg and borrow to pay for the repairs to the Electra. As Amelia said when she left on the second world flight attempt, " The future is mortgaged, but what are futures for?"

Also, some clue to the status of the transmitter may be contained in a comment by Guinea Airways' radio technician, as reported in Eric Chater's letter of July 27, 1937:

"The condition of radio equipment on Earhart's plane is as follows -transmitter carrier wave on 6210 KC was very rough and I advised Miss Earhart to pitch her voice higher to overcome distortion caused by rough carrier wave. Otherwise, transmitter seemed to be working satisfactorily."
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:15:23 EDT
From:         Mac
Subject:      Re: Radios: Code capability

Vern Klein wrote:

> What is the prevailing thought as to what "keying behind carrier" might mean?
>
> "keyed transmission, extremely poor keying behind carrier."
>
> I take it that we are talking about code transmission, not voice in short
> bursts with pauses in between.
>
> ***************************************************************
>
> From Ric
>
> Good question.  I'll leave it to one of our radio gurus to answer but I think
> that it's clear that "keyed" means sent in code.

I remember two modes of Morse comm.

1) Keyed carrier, so called CW. Dots and dashes of a continous sine wave. By the way, very efficient speaking of S/N ( Signal to Noise Ratio ).

2) Modulated continous wave, so called MCW, dots and dashes of an audio signal (typically 1 KiloHertz ) , modulating a steady continous wave carrier.

I hope this comment can be useful
73 from Mac, radio call sign, PY2CW
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:19:47 EDT
From:         Mac
Subject:      Re: Radio: code capability

We can imagine how frustrating was for AE, the lack of comm. after almost 20 hours of flight. I traveled, by surface, in an old Winnebago, here in Brazil, sometimes driving alone, and the ham radio gear played an important role, maintaining awareness, etc. After this number of hours, running an engine driven equipment, you must be very careful in your actions, and your capability to solve problems is much smaller. Frequently I had malfunctions in the motor home, only understood and solved, after more than six hours sleeping. Considering the environment for AE/FN after many hours, with the comm. problems clearly visible in Itasca log, etc. we can imagine how hard were the last portion of the flight. By the way, Ric, do you have info. about comm. usage before LAE landing, like Log's, QSO's made etc???

About your war history, I can imagine your situation. Congratulations!!!

Without a CW Key in the plane, AE/FN could send code transmission using the lips, generating dots and dashes of audio nearby 500 Hz, into the microphone. I made several QSO's doing that. One problem happens after some 15-20 min, because your lips becomes dry, and the sound fails.

73, Mac
**************************************************************

From Ric

There is really no record of Earhart ever using her radios successfully at any time during the second world flight attempt except a brief test flight over Lae on July 1st.  She talked to the ground station at Lae okay but could not get a minimum on the DF.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:38:18 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Re: Label fragment

>Ahh but Dr. King, was not the label fragment burned around the edges and
>would it not therefore seem to be logically as old as the fire that burned it?

Yes, assuming that what looks like burning in fact is, and not some sort of decay product that looks like burning (I think it's burning, you think it's burning, but I have on occasion seen things that looked like burning but weren't [TIGHAR, TIGHAR, burning bright.... never mind]).  Anyhow, my quibble wasn't with the association of the "label" with the fire, but with your specific allusion to its stratigraphic position and the age that could be assigned to it on the basis of stratigraphy.  We can't assign any age based on stratigraphy; we CAN reasonably assume contemporaneity with the fire.

LTM
TK
*************************************************************

From Ric

Yeah, you got me on the stratigraphy.  A materials analysis should tell us whether what looks like charring around the edges is, in fact, charring. Assuming it is - we have a burn feature which stratigraphically appears to be old but is associated with a label that may be modern, on top of which was found the remains of a shoe known to be old.  If that label fragment turns out to be modern we're gonna have fun explaining this. 
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:40:56 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Funding Report for 7/25/98

Report for 7/23-25/98

One Year New Memberships - 0
Special Two Year New Memberships - Thompson, Tamiesie, Brown (numbers pending)

One Year Renewals - Fenlason 0053
Special Two Year Renewals - Williams 902, White 2129, Pingrey 908C, Yoho 2036, King 0391CE, Boor 0856C, Hunn 1459CE, Holm 0980C

Subtotal - $815

Publications and merchandise orders - $379.70

Special Contributions:
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $130
Subtotal - $130
Total this date - $1,324.70
Total to date - $7,419.40
Still to raise - $42,580.60
Days remaining - 37

Note:  All donations to TIGHAR are tax deductible within the limits of U.S. law.  Contributions of stock rather than cash can have significant additional benefits to the contributor through the avoidance of capital gains taxes. Consult your tax preparer for advice on how to make your contribution to TIGHAR best benefit both you and the organization.
Thank you.
Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:50:59 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Re: Alien interception

I remember seeing the movie "final countdown", which transported the aircraft carrier "Nimitz" back in time to 12/7/41 by way of some sort of tropical storm anomaly.  maybe on your next trip to Niku island you might be fortunate enough to encounter that same anomaly!

Unfortunately, as I recall, at the end of the film the anomaly caught up with them again & transported them back to time present, before they could intercept the Japanese squadrons on their way to keep their date with destiny! (even breeching time warps is frustrating.)

Don Neumann

***************************************************************

From Ric

I think we did something like that last year.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 19:59:19 EDT
From:         Walt Holm
Subject:      More on the Label and UPC symbols (long)

On the heels of the message that I posted on 20 July concerning the label fragment and UPC symbols, I have done some more research and am now more convinced than ever that the features on the edge of the label fragment are a bar code.  Perhaps Ric can put at least a portion of the scan of the label onto the web site, so that you all can see it for yourself.

If you go back to the original posting, I was concerned about two items which seemed to rule out the feature being a UPC symbol:

1. Insufficient "quiet zone" on the edge of the alleged bar code.
2. Wide bar on the very edge of the label does not match the encoding for a check digit of "8"

As part of his response Ric posted the following:

>As instructed by Walt, I have examined the actual fragment under a dissecting
>microscope matched up with an actual barcode.  Here is what I see.
>
>The two narrow vertical lines on the fragment are quite similar to, but not
>exactly like the lines on the barcode.  The barcode lines are a smidgeon
>narrower and the space between them a smidgeon wider than on the fragment
>(smidgeon: unit of measurement perceptible to the eye but too small for me to
>quantify with available instrumentation.)
>
>The other vertical line, only the very tip of which is visible just above the
>8, is definitely of the same width as the first two.

The last statement refers to what I interpreted as a wide bar on the edge of the fragment.  In light of what Ric wrote above, and by relooking at the print of the computer scan that I have, I now believe that what I thought was a wide bar is a scanner or printer artifact, rather than a feature on the fragment (To Ric and anyone else who has the ink-jet print in question:  hold up the print sideways and let a bright light reflect off of it.  Notice the very square features of the area in question that I thought was a wide bar.  I suspect this is a scanning artifact.)

Underneath the area which I now believe is a scanning artifact, one can see what appears to be a single-width bar, which is what Ric is seeing in the microscope. This would make the encoding for the last digit of the bar code XX01000 (X represents an unknown quantity), or maybe X001000.  This is as opposed to the XX11000 that I thought existed earlier.  The encoding for the digit 8 on the right hand side of the symbol is 1001000, which is entirely consistent with this interpretation.

I found the web site for the Uniform Code Council, which maintains the UPC standard.  The specification can be found at http://www.uc-council.org/d36-t.htm, and will be referenced in the rest of this text.

With the specification in hand I managed to clear up a number of items.  The first was the location of the check digit in human-readable form, i.e. where should the digit 8 actually appear.  If you look at UPC symbols around the house the check digit appears to the RIGHT of the bars, whereas on the label fragment it is embedded within the bars.  I had not mentioned this before because I had no documentation that referred to how and where the numbers were to be placed.  The specification, however, seems fairly specific about placing the check digit to the right of the bars.  At first I wondered whether the UPC standard may have been different earlier - the posted standard is from 1986, and I still have not found a copy of the original standard.  Then, in reading through the current standard, I came to Appendix G - Specification for the EAN code.
As was mentioned in the earlier post, there exists a sister code to UPC called EAN or European Article Numbering, now known as International Article Numbering.  EAN was founded in 1977, according to their web site.  The EAN-13 code is a superset of the UPC code, encoding 13 digits in the space that the UPC encodes 12.  According to Appendix G, this is done by using additional digit encodings on the left hand half of the bar code.  If a conventional UPC symbol is scanned, the 13th digit is read as a zero.  The right-hand half of an EAN-13 bar code is identical to a UPC-A barcode. Of great importance to our label fragment, however, is that the EAN barcode places the human-readable digits in a different position as UPC-A.  On EAN, all of the digits are printed between the start and stop code bars (referred to in the spec as the left and right guard bars).  On the right side of a UPC barcode, the bars for the check digit and the stop code (right guard bars) extend down about halfway into the human-readable characters.  However, on the EAN code, only the guard bars extend down - this is the effect of the two vertical lines extending halfway down the digit "8" on the label.

An additional item of note in the specification is the use of fonts for the human-readable characters.  The specification calls for the OCR-B font, whose digit "8" shown in the spec corresponds remarkably to the digit 8 on the label fragment. I do not have OCR-B fonts on my computer, but I tried other sans serif fonts and none of them appeared similar to the 8 on the label.  The height of the OCR-B digits at "100% scale" is specified as 108.3 mils, which would be about 433 mils on the roughly 4:1 print that I have.  The "8" on my print measured about 390 mils high, but it seems like the digit might be very slightly clipped off on the bottom.  Again, this could be looked at on the original label with a microscope and reticle.

So, at this point I will summarize my thoughts on the evidence for and against the feature on the label being a bar code:

For:
1. Border around "bar code" different than other borders on label.
2. Width of narrow vertical lines consistent with "100% scale" UPC or EAN narrow bars
3. Valid stop code (or right guard bar)- This is the two vertical lines to the right of the 8
4. Digit 8 encoded properly
5. Positioning of digit with respect to vertical lines consistent with EAN-13 symbol.
6. Font correct for digit 8, size appears roughly correct for "100% scale" EAN symbol.

Against:
1. Insufficient "quiet zone", 4 narrow bar widths as opposed to the seven required.

Well, there you have it.  It would still be interesting to find an early copy of the UPC (1973) or EAN (1977?) specification, to see if the quiet zone spec has changed.  I cannot explain this discrepancy, but I do know that when I first saw the pictures of the EAN symbols in Appendix G my mouth nearly dropped open.  Look for yourself, and form your own judgment.  I am convinced that this is a modern label.

-Walt Holm
    TIGHAR 0980C
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:01:53 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Label Fragment

>- we have a burn feature which stratigraphically appears to be
>old but is associated with a label that may be modern, on top of which was
>found the remains of a shoe known to be old.

Well, actually, there's nothing in the stratigraphy to say that the burn feature is old; it could be recent.  The charcoal analysis suggesting buka rather than palm is VERY tentative, and needs to be checked with a larger sample, which I'll try to get together by going through the feature material with a very fine-toothed comb.  Anyhow, based on current data both the burn feature and the label could be recent; the shoe is, of course, another matter. How all three would get associated remains very puzzling, but of course it remains to be seen whether we need to be puzzled about it. 
LTM
Tom King
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:04:01 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Re: Label fragment

Re fire circle: Any possibility that later island visitors or residents used the same fire circle that others (AE/FN) before them had already established? Most people in the backwoods tend to use both camp areas and fire sites that are already established, rather than create new ones. Later traffic could also jumble the earlier evidence around.

Blue skies, -jerry
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:13:42 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Antennas Again (Still)

In my last email, I indicated that Gurr had flight tested the Radio Range System because he says in his letter he "made radio contacts with the FCC Range."

Ric has indicated in one of his latest emails "No record of  Earhart ever using her radios successfully at any time during her second world flight attempt except for a brief flight over Lae on July 1st.  She talked to the ground station at Lae okay (V Antenna), but could not get a minimum" (Loop Antenna).  So, what's the big deal about the belly antenna?  Her problems didn't start with that thing falling off.  She had problems prior to that.

By the way,  the belly antenna was 16 feet long.  The standard DF Sense Antenna length.  If you want to count the lead in, it was 18 feet. (lead ins are not considered when determining length of these type of antennas).  That antenna was resonant (a half wave) at 30,000 kc.  Let me tell you from experience that a 16 foot antenna is not going to hear much of anything at 3105 or 6210kcs.  So, if the HF receiver WAS hooked up to the belly antenna, she wouldn't have heard anything anyway whether or not it was torn off taking off out of Lae.  Gurr new what he was doing.  He NEVER  would have hooked that thing up to the HF receiver.  Now, I know that Radio Range Systems used short antennas, and they worked real well.  But, don't forget that they were operated very close-in to a very powerful station.

Gurr indicates in his letter after the Luke crash, and when the Electra was at Lockheed being rebuilt, "We designed a belly sensing antenna for reception of signals for direction finding." (Sense Antenna.)  I know that there is no record of her having a DF receiver on board (after the Luke crash) but the records are not to good and maybe she did.

Gurr indicates that when she flew to Miami; Pan American did some further radio work on the Electra.  If this were true, what did they do?  Pan Am had an excellent group of Radio Technicians at Miami in those days.  They were the cream of the crop. They were aviation electronics pioneers.  They never would have tinkered with that airplane and hooked the belly antenna up to the HF Receiver.  They new that doing something like that might get Earhart killed.

What I would like are records of just what Pan Am did do to that airplane in Miami.  That might answer many of our questions.

Lastly, Gurr says "Emelia was not proficient in operation of the radios."  He had tried to check her out, but she always had excuses to leave these training sessions early or to cancel out on them completely.  She didn't find radios user friendly.  Could it be that there was nothing wrong with the radios at all?  Was it just, as we, Pan Am ground people, used to say, "cockpit trouble", and it finally did Amelia in.

Love to Mother,
Bob, #0902
************************************************************

From Ric

I, too, would like to know just what Pan Am did to that airplane in Miami. Press reports mention problems with the Sperry GyroPilot (autopilot) and one account says that a radio direction finder was installed, but no official records have ever turned up.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:16:50 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Antenna Wars

Mike Everette wrote:

> As for the antennas:  I tend to agree with K6EMN's posting on that score.
> The dorsal antenna would have been used for transmit and receive - more
>than likely.  It is conceivable that Gurr, or whoever did any work on the
>rig,  may have thought he "had a better idea..."  we can't rule that out,

Therein lies my scenario:  If the comm recvr. WAS connected to 'the other' belly ant. (one was for the adf sense), Ric's initial supposition that the loss of the two lower wires on t.o. at Lae explained A.E's inability to hear anyone, except the 'A's' on 7500 with her loop was right on the mark.

I disagreed with Ric's premise because of how things SHOULD have been connected', and I thought the other belly wire was for a 200-400 range recvr.  Ric told me that a separate range recvr. was not part of her equip. 

The unconventional was possible because of all the radio shenigans: probable repacement of the WE 200khz-10 mhz for a Navy set that went to 20mhz (Gurr's letter, p4), his removal & reinstallation of all her radios, the modification of the top V ant. & other removals & changes made in MIA.

RC  941
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:27:01 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: tsunamis

Actually, seismic records go back to the mid 1890's, at least good enough for the really big earthquakes.  Quality improves over time, but for the really big ones, the ones that might cause tsunamis, are usually caught well on existing seismographic stations at the time.  Another way to track tsunamis despite not having good seismographic coverage is if other areas also reported tsunamis.  Alas, this time period is quite quiet in the Pacific.  Although there are the occasional earthquake in the central Pacific, they are extremely rare and don't fit much of the seismographic patterns, much like the New Madrid earthquakes in the early 1800s in Missouri.  There is nothing tectonically active near the Phoenix Islands.  The best kinds of earthquakes for tsunamis are those earthquakes associated with subduction zones: around Japan, Tonga, Alaska, etc.  You can bet that if Gardner experienced tsunamis, so would Howland, Baker, Jarvis, and the Hawaiian Islands.  I've scrutinized the colonist's diaries for these events, and they just don't appear.  Hawaiian records would record this via their tidal gauges.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1998 09:30:11 EDT
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Sydney crash found

As promised here is the history of the C-47 on Sydney Island.

C-47A-60DL USAAF s/n 43-30739, Douglas c/n 13890

Manufactured at the Douglas plant in Long Beach CA. Delivered to the USAAF on 5 OCT 43. Flew to Baer Field, Fort Wayne, Indiana.

24 NOV 43 Departed the US for the South Pacific with the 13th AF. The record card states that it was destined for OBEY which is the code name for Otaru, Hokkaido, Japan. (I checked several sources). This does not make sense to me. Was Otaru in U.S. hands in NOV 1943?

18 DEC 43 dropped from USAAF inventory (the day after the crash).

Answers:

It was a new aircraft from Douglas, manufactured at Long Beach CA on 5 OCT 43 and went directly into USAAF inventory.

Questions:
How long did it take Douglas to build it?
What type and how old was Douglas' inventory of metal, hardware, fittings and most importantly cable?
What happened to it at Baer Field?

I am looking into the history of Baer Field.

Craig Fuller
Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:12:15 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Lost & Found Sound

I got a phone call Friday from Sandra Wong who works for an outfit called American Zoetrope.  They're a radio show production company working on a big federally-funded project for a series of shows to air on public radio next year.  Their long hype of the series is included below.

They're going to do a segment on ol' Amelia and they're looking for help and ideas.  Sandra initially wondered if I knew where they could find the recordings of Earhart's last transmissions.  I had to tell her that the messages were "recorded" only on the typewriter in the Itasca's radio room.  I also mentioned that, in my opinion, the many recreations which have been done of Earhart's messages have been woefully inaccurate.  Even if they get the content right, the sound quality is always studio-perfect and the actress playing Amelia gives it her best impassioned and pleading tones.  My understanding is that aviation radio-telephone transmissions of that period were made in a droning monotone very much like what you hear in the old pre- war aviation movies.  Nobody makes Amelia sound like that because it sounds "corny" today, but that's the way it was done back then.  Mike, Bob, Bob, - Am I right?

At least according to Tom Wolfe in "The Right Stuff" the conversational, laid- back style of modern radio communications is a product of excellent VHF and UHF clarity and a good-ol-boy manner invented almost single-handedly by Chuck Yeager.  Whether or not that's true, the radio style of the '30s was certainly different than today's.

Let's have some input and ideas on this.  What other sound could be used in a radio piece about the Earhart disappearance?  This series will probably get a lot of play and I'd like for us to have as much influence as possible in how the Earhart disappearance is portrayed.  I'll forward your messages to Sandra.
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:28:08 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Sydney Crash on website

The Crash At Sydney Island is up and ready for your perusal as the latest Research Bulletin on the TIGHAR website (www.tighar.org)

It's really quite a story.  I think you'll find it interesting.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:44:59 EDT
From:         Walt Holm
Subject:      EAN barcode symbols at the store

I spent some time yesterday at a local grocery store looking at barcodes, and found some interesting things.  Quite a few foreign food products use an EAN barcode rather than the UPC barcode.  After about ten minutes of searching, I came up with a product with an EAN-13 barcode with a check digit of 8 (In typical TIGHAR searching fashion, it took about 15 or 20 items to find one that ended in 8).  Anyway, I have mailed the box off to Ric to compare with the label fragment.  I also did a 400% enlargement of the symbol on the box, and compared it to the ink-jet print that I have of the label fragment, overlaying the two on a light table.  It was not a perfect match, but was extremely good- so good that it is very hard to believe that the feature on the label fragment is some random part of an old label.

-Walt Holm

***************************************************************

From Ric

I eagerly await said box.
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:51:51 EDT
From:         Dave Kelly
Subject:      Re: Tachikawa Ki-54

Simon Ellwood wrote:

>Do we have any TIGHAR members in Victoria - south Australia ?  My
>researches show there's the fuselage of a Tachikawa Ki-54 there, at the
>Point Cook aircraft museum.
>
>Might be able to examine the nose structure of this fuselage and
>eliminate the type as being a Wreck Photo candidate.

Point Cook is located just outside Melbourne, Victoria (about an hour or so).  It is a long way from where I live, however, I will be down there at the end of November.  Point Cook is I believe an RAAF museum and may have a web site to visit.

Regards
David Kelly
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:34:48 EDT
From:         Forest Blair
Subject:      Re: Canton Aerial Photos

We need to keep our time frame in mind.  Bruce found the engine before the first missile splashed down.  That was in late Feb 71 or early Mar 71.  The splash, in fact, was the reason the 2-star general was at Canton.  Upon his arrival, the general also noted besides the "splash" that we were not doing much to help the ecology  in our living and working locations. The general (Lou Wilson), I'm almost certain, therefore, directed his R&D Directorate to get  Clapp to Canton a second time.  NOTE:  Bruce was not on site during Clapp's first visit when Clapp made his initial "bird/ecology" survey.

When Clapp did arrive, he was escorted by a relatively high-level VIP-escort team from the SAMTEC R&D areas.  All resources were dedicated to Clapp since his report could possibly close us down.  He was taken wherever he wished. If he had wanted to go to the South Pole, we probably would have found a way.  Although Clapp was only a mid-level grade civilian, he was the key to our not getting the Brits, who jointly owned the place, all in a dither. Clapp may have gone to Gardner at this time.  If so, one would think he would have taken more photos of the Niku village.  According to the Sept 96 "Tighar Tracks", however, Clapp's last photo of the village was in October 1963.  Unless there is something more specific in the SAMTEC memo from Major Akers, moreover, "in the islands" doesn't necessarily indicate Clapp went to Gardner.  Since Clapp was at Canton about two weeks on that visit, he possibly did.  He was the VIP.  Only the Global pilots, the SAMTEC VIP- escort team or Clapp would know for certain.  Perhaps he got photos of "H-3's"  at Gardner on later trips????

One other major reason, I believe our CH-3E's never went to Gardner before the second coming of Clapp was to avoid unnecessary AOC for parts or maintenance.  In the early days of reactivation and construction, the copters not only had to ferry all personnel and supplies daily to the outer radar sites, but also served as sky cranes to erect the radar towers at all three locations.  Since our re-supply from Hawaii was twice a week--sometimes just once--Global was severely impacted by this.  Before Bruce arrived, and we had only two copters, if one was AOC, and the other "got sick", our schedule was really hit.  Global with limited support sincerely tried to keep us going, so why would they put unnecessary flying time on their "bread and butter"?  Gardner was not in our "game plan".

To reiterate, the Canton engine was found during the first few months of activation which started in Sep 70--before the first missile splash around the end of Feb 71.  We must keep this time period in mind when we try to piece together Bruce's "find".  Admittedly, we all want that engine to have been found on Gardner and have been on Amelia's A?C .  As discussed above, I just don't think it was.

Forest #2149
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:47:54 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Label Fragment

>Re fire circle: Any possibility that later island visitors or residents
>used the same fire circle that others (AE/FN) before them had already
>established?

Possible, yes; probable, I don't think so.  Remember that the area was cleared for coco planting in 1941; there's no reason to think that by the time later visitors might have come along, it looked much like it did when and if FN and AE were there.  Plus, the ground surface is very active biologically and physically; unless the AE/FN fire (sic) were a VERY big one, there probably wouldn't be much trace of it.  We found a couple of well-preserved fire pits in the village, but they were in well-established cookhouse sites where they'd probably been used for years and years.  I think a co-occurrence of a '37 firepit and a later one would be pure coincidence, and real unlikely.

Tom King
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:31:28 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      The Earhart Sound

I agree with you on the monotone sound.  I could also add that the sound of the voice would give one the feeling that everything is normal and there is nothing to get excited about.  Oh, and don't forget the mic pickup of the sound of engines in the background. (Very low level.)  Even noise canceling mics picked up some cockpit sounds.

Love to Mother,
Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:30:12 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      A day off

Ric & Pat:

I don't think forum subscribers would mind terribly if you guys took a day off every week - one where you don't have to think and live TIGHAR.  Relax once in a while and avoid burnout.

Smooth Sailing
Ron 2126

********************

....a day off..... what a novel idea..... what does one *do* all day?

Actually, be forewarned that there probably will not be much if any Forum on Sunday the 2nd, we have another obligation that will keep us away from the office all day.

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:08:22 EDT
From:         Skeet Gifford
Subject:      Monotones

You are correct about the monotone of airborne radio transmissions. This is, in part, due to the operator and also the nature of the equipment. Did you  ever hear music transmitted over aeronautical radios? Two tin cans (corrugation optional), connected by a string with background static accompaniment, should give a reasonable facsimile.

There are parts of the world where this phenomenon may be heard today. It shouldn't be too difficult if you have an HF receiver. Night is best. Lots of fade, reflection and overlapping signals. All the good stuff that make flying interesting. New York ARINC (Aeronautical Radio, INCorporated) Caribbean night frequencies, 2887, 5550, 6577, 8918 would be a good place to start.

BTW, I have heard the radio transmissions of pilots as they confronted potentially fatal situations, and the monotone doesn't change.

Capt. R. B. (Skeet) Gifford (Ret.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:36:04 EDT
From:         Mike Rejsa
Subject:      Other theories

I'd like to make a few comments about your response to Daryll Bolinger if I may.

1. You have every right to limit to forum (and TIGHAR) to pursuing *your* theory. However, until proven it is simply a theory like any other (crackpot or no). Strange things have happened in history... I guess I'm saying live and let live.

2. Serendipity counts. Would you have info on 10E cowling diameters or Noonan's sextant box if you had gone only where you thought such info might be and closed your mind to other possibilities? Mr. Bolinger might be the one to uncover an important log entry that disproves his theory and proves yours.

3. Or, what if a currently unknown pilot acting as government DF target turns out to have been lost around Niku in 1937? Mr. Bolinger might be the guy to uncover it.

4. Crackpot doesn't mean stupid. Mr. Bolinger may someday be the one to notice a flaw in one of your theories. This is valuable in "proofing" out your ideas, and terminating dead ends with minimal time wasted.

5. Because of all this, the more people engaged in research (crackpot or no) the better. We want more facts brought to light, and the more hands doing it the better. Not that they *all* have to be represented in the TIGHAR forum... you are correct there. But a minimal amount of support hurts nothing, particularly with sharing information.

Just my thoughts on the subject- it's *your* forum, after all!

Mike Rejsa

***************************************************************

From Ric

Well, it's "my" forum only in the sense that I get to moderate it.  Without input from you and the other forum subscribers I'd have nothing to moderate.

Your comments bring up some interesting questions about the investigative methodology.  It is my feeling that any investigation must be a focusing process.  You gather as much original-source information as possible and start eliminating possibilities which appear to be unsupported by what seem to be the facts. My reason for trying to focus the content of the forum on the testing of the what we might call the Gardner Hypothesis (We certainly can't claim any proprietary rights to it.  The Navy first came up with it in 1937.) is an attempt to save time and money.  After ten years of work, those of us closest to the project have become pretty well convinced that all the conspiracy stuff is nonsense.  Granted, some previously unknown document could crop up which would change that impression, but given what we know so far, it doesn't seem to make sense to expend scarce resources flogging a dead horse, or endlessly explaining why the horse is dead.

If Mr. Bolinger knows of some such document I encourage him to make it known to us.  If he suspects that some such document exists I urge him to search for it.  If the subscribers to the forum want to debate conspiracy theories I hope they'll tell me so.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:59:47 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Antennas and stuff

All the technical talk about AE's antennas, radios and DF and be pretty confusing to the neophyte, but I would like to emphasize its importance to help solve the riddle, and how difficult it is to get everything right.

Most laymen think radio waves "and stuff" like it are fairly simple and everything always work as planned.  Experience has told us otherwise.

In my younger days my job with Air Force and its civilian "overseer" was intercepting communications of the bad guys.  At our station on Crete we had a DF shack to help us identify the guys we were copying.  The DF shack was hooked into a regional network of other Air Force intercept/DF sites and they'd work to together to help any site that needed a DF shot.  On numerous occasions we would call for a DF fix, put it on the net, and when it came back the transmitter was identified as US.  Somehow the signal we were copying would be intercepted and rebroadcast from our intercepting antennas on the same frequency and the DF net (in Germany, Turkey, Italy etc.) would ident us as the transmitter.  Very frustrating. . .  and confusing.  So even then these things didn't work like they were supposed to,  just like today.

Regarding your idea of a model plane for promoting the AE search.  Both Texaco and Shell oil companies use a company in Texas to make models of aircraft the oil firms used in their earlier days.  The cast all-metal models (at least Texaco's) usually go for about $25 each, but the collector's magazines list them at double and triple that.  If you're interested go to your nearest Texaco station and they should have one of the recent models.  The quality the casting is about a 5 on a 10 scale, but they look pretty good form a distance!!

TIGHAR balls?  Isn't that what the Chinese used before Vacuumatics and Viagra?
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:47:55 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Re: a day off

Why not spend some time trying to create a new conspiracy theory, with all the facts you've developed so far yours would certainly have a greater aura of truth than the ones currently circulating in the market place! Could also provide needed revenue, as the conspiracy theorists seem to earn a good living & get all the publicity & invitations on the tv circuit, every time one of the networks dredge-up another old Earhart newsreel or "documentary".

Naaah......  Then we'd never find the Electra or AE/Noonan remains, you'd be too busy making the "author's circuit" to make the necessary trips to Niku island or to scrutinize the daily offerings of ideas (some pretty wacky, I'll admit) from the rest of us, for some element we've not considered for investigation as yet or perhaps  new perspectives not previously considered.

In any event, it's imperative to get some time away from the daily grind, if only to air out our cluttered minds & come back with renewed energy for the tasks at hand.

have  a "good one"!
Don Neumann
=========================================================================
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:49:31 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Re: monotones

Besides, AE's speaking voice was as dull & uninspiring as any I've ever heard.   even at news conferences she always seemed to be "reading" her responses, tho', come to think of it, Lindbergh was almost as bad, so I guess the public "radio style" in those days required the speakers to be as "stiff" & formal as possible !

Don Neumann
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:15:59 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Days off

What?  Take a day off?  What will I do, if there is not the glimmer of sunshine in reading my e-mail from TIGHAR?  Ric: get back to work!  If I don't have a day off, neither do you! Keep up the good work.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:18:30 EDT
From:         Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Re: Canton Aerial Photos

I worry about Gardner being the island because  Bruce did not recall the SS Norwich City wreck.

However, Bruce's find supports what the No Land Club* has always said:

If there was a plane there, someone would have seen it.  Too many folks have been to Gardner and someone should have seen wreckage.

Bruce apparently did.  Pulekai & Co. claim they did.

The Electra floated and sank off the West of Gardner before 9 July 1937.

This is why Lambrecht +5 saw no evidence of wreckage.

Over time, heavier parts of the aircraft were deposited by nature onto the reef (the engine), lighter parts of the aircraft were deposited on SW shore of Nutiran and carried through Tatiman Passage coming to rest on Taraia.

Love to Lambrecht,
The No Land Club*
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:20:34 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Aero Radio ca. '30s

For what it's worth.  Robert N. Buck, teen age x-country record setter in the very early '30's, author of a number of books on aviation, was a DC-2 & 3 airline pilot before and during the time of AE's 'trip', had this to say about aero radio in the '30's:  Transmissions were very much 'conversation', and slower than today for readability.  There was no Roger, Wilco, Able Baker (alpha bravo) stuff.  They began in a normal conversational tone of voice, but during the many periods of static they often escalated to shouting matches with liberal use synonyms (C like in Crazy, which later led to a standardized alphabet).  Whistling one or more characters of code into the mike to get a letter(s) or number(s) understood was a last resort and not uncommon..  Relays by other pilots was also common.  He passed off Tom Wolfe's stuff as interesting reading but some of it, 'poetic license'.  As for C. Yeager's good ole boy style, he said, we had country boy pilots in the '30's too.  RC  941
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:21:49 EDT
From:         Kary Barnett
Subject:      Re: Model planes

Dennis McGee idea of the cast metal model airplane is the best I have heard on fund-raising. I have seen those Texaco Planes.  They're very attractive. I would much rather have a Plane model over a Ping Pong ball.

Thanks Kary
**********************

We are definitely going ahead with this; details later, film at 11.

No ping pong balls.

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:28:21 EDT
From:         John Clauss
Subject:      Roger Clapp survey

Roger Clapp did the survey to which you refer between 13-27 April 71.

This from a letter titled: Enderbury Island Geological Survey
Date: 14 May 1971
Written by: Ronald L. Akers, Major, USAF, AF/RDGE

The subject concerns the survey of Endurbury, but refers to trips to other islands in the Phoenix Group.

LTM
John #142
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:29:39 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      Re: a day off

Pat wrote:

>Actually, be forewarned that there probably will not be much if any Forum on
>Sunday the 2nd, we have another obligation that will keep us away from the
>office all day.

What??!! Out of the office on Sunday?? What kind of work ethic is that?? Geesh! ;>

Tom 2179

*******************************
:-PPPPPPPPPP
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:30:43 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Label of Niku: Striations

A couple of thoughts...

1. Corrugations all the way to the top of a can does not seem at all likely. Probably not feasible at all in view of the rest of the necessary operations to get an end put on the can.  Are you very sure that straight edge that certainly appears to be the top of the label really is the top?

2. I have a label from a can, perhaps five years old, that may look something like the fragment.  I was moving some stuff around in the garage and spotted this can back in a corner.  I thought, damned if that doesn't look like corrugations all the way to the top!  I grabbed the can and looked inside.  Nope, corrugations stop about 5/8" from the top.  I have no idea what caused the "wrinkles" in the upper part of the label that made it look like corrugations showing through.  This was apparent only in the vicinity of the glued lap-seam in the label -- maybe as much as 2 inches either side. It's not glue stripes.  Glue was applied in half-a-dozen spots along the lap seam.  These "wrinkles" are not well defined lines like the corrugations -- sort of jumbled. But they sure resemble the corrugation marks until you look closely. I suspect the corrugation marks on the fragment are not nearly as well defined as on a label we remove from a can today.  Is it possible that the striations you see at the upper part of the fragment are not really corrugation marks but "wrinkles" in the paper that resemble corrugation marks?

That can sure shook me up for a moment!  To my mind, it just couldn't be. No reason to make a can like that.  You just make it difficult for yourself with almost nothing gained for your trouble.
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:14:22 EDT
From:         Daryll Bolinger
Subject:      Exchange of Ideas

Since I recieved the reply to my letter, I didn't I didn't think I would be writting to the Forum again. I had to remind myself what I thought the Forum was all about, and not cop an attitude. I was just sharing my research that I did 13 years ago, knowledge is supposed to be cumulative. There was no internet 13 years ago for the general public. What I did was out of interest for the mystery of the  disappearence of AE. At times I felt as if I was on an island and could only go so far before the water stopped me. I thought the internet would make the island bigger. I thought I was adding what I thought was an important piece to the puzzle.  My letter was also a plea to anyone who might have had direct knowledge of AE who was alive at that time, not thinking that a 20 year old in 1937 would be 81 today.  Ric recently said that for the past 10 years, he considered that conspiracy stuff nonsense. Maybe I don't know the meaning of conspiracy. If it means , do I think the government has secrets it wants to keep from the public, then yes I do think there was a conspiracy. I agree with Ric's investigative methodology. And I agree that facts must be retained and sorted out. When I was doing my research one of the questions I asked myself was , what could have been so important to keep the government from being forthright about AE, such a famous woman aviator. I think I found some answers in the intelligence gathering community. Code- Breaking before and during WWll has been said to be one of America's best keep secrets. It  might be hard to believe but America knew it would have to go to war with Japan as early as the end of WWl.  Here are some facts for the Forum to think on.

1. Both the  Army and Navy had code-breaking sections . The Navy had OP-20-G, G section of the 20th division of OPNAV, the Office of the Chief of Naval Operations. The 20th divison was  the office of Naval Communications, and the G section was the Communication Security Section. They were responsible for cryptoanalysis. Commander Laurence F. Safford took command in 1936.
A. There were three subsections.
         1. GX- intercept and direction finding.
         2. GY- cryptoanalysis.
         3. GZ- translation and dissemination.

2. The Mid- Pacific Strategic Direction- Finder Net came on line in 1937, the year AE disappeared. It was a ring of stations from Dutch Harbor, Alaska down the west coast and Hawaii, Samoa, Philippines.  This was how the Navy was going to keep track of the Japanese Navy.

3. Capt. L.F. Safford wrote , THE UNDECLARED WAR " HISTORY OF RADIO INTELLIGENCE" 15 NOVEMBER 1943. From the National Archives, SECRET, Declassified 19 July 1984.

4. I believe in the bibliography section of of Ann Pellegeno's book, WORLD FLIGHT, THE EARHART TRAIL, which was not a conspiracy book,  was where I found mention of the unpublished work by Captain L.F. Safford, USN, Ret. "AMELIA EARHART'S LAST FLIGHT; A TRAGEDY OF ERRORS." I found it interesting that the commander of the Navy's OP-20-G in 1937 either wrote or put together such a work.  I think I even tried to get a copy from the National Archives but was unsuccessful for some reason. 

5. There were  about 700  men in the Navy's radio intelligence unit. 2/3 rds or 462 officers and men were engaged in intercept or direction- finding. I believe they could be both land and ship based. These people would have to have had secret clearences, I believe secret was the highest classifcation then. One could say that maybe less than 500 people in that Radio Intelligence unit could have been listening in on AE's last leg, how many made it through the war?

6. The source for some of my research came from  " THE CODE-BREAKERS" by David Kahn, published by Macmillan Company, A large book, it is the history of cryptoanalysis ( code-breaking ). I think any library could find it on an interloan basis.

How far would a government go to protect its code-breaking capabilites? Let's ask the people of Coventry , Ehgland. The British had broken the German code. The British knew the Germans where going to bomb Coventry, the British did not alert the citizens to what was coming and sacrificed Coventry so the Germans would not find out that their code was compromised. It is easier for one side to change code than for the other side to break it.

Is that a conspiracy? I guess it depends on your viewpoint.

I would ask the Forum to go to Ric's Web site and click on the EARHART PROJECT. Next go to the LOG JAM. Read that again from the perspective of a pilot who has been told that the U.S. NAVY was going to track her across the Pacific, pay particular attention to ITASCA Primary Radio log entry for 6:14-15 a.m. July 2,1937.

I have this image in my mind from the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark. A lonely government worker pushing the Ark in a box into an endless stack of boxes into an endless warehouse. Can stuff get lost?      I think so.

DARYLLB

***************************************************************

From Ric

Okay, let's talk about this.

Let's accept that the American military was concerned about national security (as it should be) in the years after the Great War and that both the Army and the Navy had the intelligence units you describe.  I would question, however, your statement that "It might be hard to believe but America knew it would have to go to war with Japan as early as the end of WWl."  Yes, it is very hard to believe and is, as far as I know, totally unsupportable by anything other than supposition based upon selected statements by various officers or politicians who were expressing opinion rather than national policy.  I think that it is clear that the U.S. recognized Japan's increasingly militaristic and expansionist government as a potential problem, but to say that "America knew it would have to go to war with Japan" is like saying that in the years following World War Two America knew that it would have to go to war with the Soviet Union.  Bear in mind that nobody - nobody - knew that the war of 1914-1918 was World War One, and everybody (except some sickos) was desperately hoping that the deteriorating world situation would not result in another war.  Bear in mind also that the government of Japan throughout the 1920s and '30s was not a monolithic force moving inexorably and craftily toward implementation of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.  It was, instead, a chaotic assassination-ridden mess that gradually fell under the influence of the militarists.

All that aside, let's accept that, in 1937, U.S. intelligence was, as you suggest, interested in testing its Mid- Pacific Strategic Direction-Finder Net which, you say, came on line in 1937 and was a ring of stations from Dutch Harbor, Alaska down the west coast and Hawaii, Samoa, Philippines. As far as I know there is no direct evidence that such tests were conducted but it seems reasonable that the spooks would want to test their new system.

The question is whether there is any evidence whatsoever that the Earhart flight was implicated in any way with a supposed desire by the Army or Navy to test their direction-finding capability.  I know of no such evidence.

I do know that there is no mention in government radio traffic of any direction-finding attempts while the airplane was in flight.  The only radio direction-finding done on presumed post-loss signals from the Earhart aircraft was by Pan American commercial facilities on Oahu, Midway and Wake.  If the military really did have the capability, and wanted to test it, it's hard to imagine why they didn't use Earhart's disappearance as a perfect excuse.  To think that such activity was, in fact, going on and that the historical record has been carefully purged of any reference to it, while voluminous documentation (radio logs, ships logs, etc.) was created as a cover story, is the bread and butter of the conspiracy buff.

Earhart's 06:14-15 transmission to the Itasca was recorded in the log as:

WANTS BEARING ON 3105 KCS//ON HOUR//WILL WHISTLE IN MIC ABOUT TWO HUNDRED MILES OUT//APPX//WHISTLING//NW

You suggest that this be read "from the perspective of a pilot who has been told that the U.S. NAVY was going to track her across the Pacific."  I suggest that the transmission makes more sense for a pilot who hopes that a Coast Guard ship a couple hundred miles away will be able to tell her what heading to fly to reach the island she absolutely must find.  There is nothing suspicious here.  The horse is dead.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:57:12 EDT
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Sydney Crash

Here is at least why C-47A s/n 43-30739 went to Baer Field and what was typically done to C-47s there (note "typically" - it is not known for sure what modifications were done to 43-30739).

Baer Field, at the end of 1943, was a processing point for both aircrew and aircraft before being sent overseas. Baer Field processed B-26s, C-46s, and C-47s. Between May 42 and MAR 44,  3155 C-47s were processed at Baer Field.

The C-47s were very extensively checked out by both inspection and flight testing. The necessary equipment was installed and any unnecessary factory equipment was removed. Also, any field changes (i.e. upgrades) were completed at this time.

For aircraft going to the Pacific theater, eight 100 gallon tanks were installed in the fuselage. A 50 gallon oil drum was also placed in the fuselage that had lines to each engine. Through a hand pump each engine could be topped off with oil while in flight.
After a final flight test the aircraft were turned over to their overseas crew. This is most likely where Lt. Prater, Lt. Barcharik, and Sgt. Malcom R. Willson, picked up 43-30739. Their service record would show this, but any time I have tried to obtain service records I have been stopped by the next of kin only rule. Has any one on the forum had any luck obtaining service records? In Sgt.  Willson's sworn statement he states that he had been with the pilot since 15 Nov 43. From the aircraft  record card, 43-30739 left the US on 24 NOV 43. So it seems most likely that 43-30739 went directly from the Douglas Long Beach plant to Baer Field for final modifications. Then flown overseas by Lt. Prater's crew. Stayed over at Canton to repair a wing tip and then crashed on Sydney Island on 17 DEC 43.

PS.   I have two copies of Sgt. Malcom R. Willson's sworn statement so I think I did not include it in your report. I will put it in the mail to you. Lt. Willson chose not to go on the flight so as to "not overcrowd the ship." Lucky decision!

Craig Fuller
Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research
***************************************************************

From Ric

The file you sent included Willson's statement.  Have to wonder if his luck held up throughout the war.

I also wonder how this new information may help us identify the source of some of the artifacts found on Niku.  Let's run down a short list:

2-2-V-1, the section of aircraft skin found in 1991.  Could it be from the C-47 that crashed on Sydney?  We'll want to take another hard look but we've looked at C-47s before with this in mind and we already know that there is no obvious rivet pattern match-up.  We also now know that it would pretty much have to have come from the outboard wing or the extreme tail because the rest of the airplane burned up.  Further, the type of damage we see to 2-2-V-1 is not consistent with the Sydney crash scenario.

2-18, the dado.  No part numbers.  Not usually a component in military airplanes.  Shows no evidence of fire.

2-3-V-2, section of cut plexiglas.  We'll want to check on the thickness and curvature of the cabin windows of a C-47A, but unless a window was thrown clear on impact, all the plexi on the Sydney C-47 should have burned up.

2-3-V-1, radio (?) cables.  The nickel, rather than cadmium plating on the connectors reportedly suggests manufacture before 1942.  We don't know how rapidly the supply of radio gear was turning over in late 1943, but my guess would be "pretty darn fast."  Also, the radio gear in a C-47 was in the part of the airplane that burned up. 

2-1, the navigator's bookcase.  We quite sure that this didn't come from the Electra. This type of bookcase - Consolidated Part Number 28F2043 - was designed for installation in a PBY but this particular one was modified in the same way as bookcases installed in B-24s.  Might Baer Field have had a bunch of these as part of the modification of other types for overseas ferry?  Seems like a possibility, except - again - no evidence of fire damage.

2-2-V-5, aluminum comb.  It's a crudely-made comb cut from .032 Alclad.  The Sydney Islanders were said to have made combs from the wreck on their island. Seems likely that this might be a piece from the C-47.

2-2-V-8, riveted structure.  This artifact was accidentally lost by the NTSB but we have good photographs of it.  It was part of some kind of internal structure, badly cut up, bent, and very corroded in some areas.  It had a partially decipherable part number on it, 32B108(?).  The 32B part sounds very much like a Consolidated B-24 part number but we were never able to match it up with any of the B-24 possibilities.  Craig has found a similarity in some Douglas part numbers.  Maybe this part will prove to be from the Sydney crash.

So far, none of the artifacts that we have been suspecting as being from the Lockheed are readily explained away by the C-47 that crashed on Sydney, but we'll continue to research that possibility.

LTM,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1998 13:30:27 EDT
From:         Andrew McKenna
Subject:      Wreck Photo

It occurs to me that a once hot and possibly promising research avenue was the wreck photo.  Haven't heard much about it lately.  Any progress?

I went back and revisited the 9/97 Tighar Tracks and was thinking about what research is needed on the photo, it would seem that the unresolved questions are:

What kind of aircraft is in the photo?
Where were the photos taken?
Who is the anonymous seaman photographer and his friend?
Who and where are the guys in the 2nd photo?
Why the difference in Palm tree health between the photos?
Why does the ship's log not list the anon seaman in the ship's company? (How do we even know that?  Who did the "further investigation"?)
How do we resolve the fact that the ship's log indicates that the vessel was "in Hong Kong during the entire time period in question." (late 46 and early 47)?
What is the source for the info on the HMS Adamant?
Why won't Carrington offer up any info?

The line of research using the photo "standing on its own" has been very interesting as it would seem to indicate that the subject aircraft is likely (?) an E10 wrecked on a Pacific island near the beach in front of a stand of stressed coconut palms.  However, since the Internet is all about connecting people and information, can we go one step farther and revisit what we know about the origin of the photo?

We know the photo exists, which means that there must have been a photographer taking pictures of a wreck on a Pacific island.  Who was he, where was he, and how did he get there?  Are there more photos?

With the expanding reach of the Forum via the Internet, I'd like to see if we can track down the origin of the wreck photo and iron out some of the wrinkles in the story.  We can start by :

1) finding a Forum member that has a better relationship with George Carrington than Ric does,

and

2) searching out the "anonymous seaman" who supposedly took the photo in the first place, his beach buddy, their shipmates, and/or heirs.

and

3) Researching the HMS Adamant and other Royal Navy vessels may have stopped at Gardner.  (Strikes me that perhaps the anon seamen was off a submarine, and he may have spent time on the sub tender that was tending his sub without being listed as part of the ship's company.)

In any case, there has to be some bit of information that can be gleaned from the original photographer, his buddy who walked down the beach with him, other ship mates, or their heirs.  The key to all this would seem to be finding out the name of the "anonymous seaman".  Ric, do we know who it is?

The cast of characters is:

Capt. George Carrington USN(Ret.)  (still alive?)
The anonymous seaman
His friend who walked down the beach with him when they discovered the wreck.
Their shipmates in the 2nd photo - (can anyone recognize their father? Uncle?
Themselves?)
The Royal Navy

The set is:
The HMS Adamant (or another ship) in the South Pacific

Seems to me that, combined, the Forum members must have the connections to start tracking down the original photographer.  How do we get Carrington to come clean?  Who knows him better than Ric?  Maybe you should post the 2nd photo of the sailors on the beach and ask for identification.  Anybody have access to the Royal Navy Archives?  Any other suggestions?

LTM
Andrew McKenna  1045

***************************************************************

From Ric

As for Carrington, it wouldn't take much to find someone with a better relationship with him than I have.  When I called him on the phone he wouldn't even acknowledge who he was and he referred to me in the third person.  To the conspiracy crowd I am the Great Satan.  What the heck - it's a snappier title than Executive Director.

When he was in London recently, Walt Holm did some more research on HMS Adamant.  In later years she was in the Atlantic.  She was apparently never anywhere near Niku unless it was before 1946.

The "anonymous seaman" was supposedly named Ray Elliot (sp?).  The research that failed to find him on the Adamant's crew was supposedly done by the Fleet Air Arm Museum in England when the Smithsonian was working on the problem.

The second photo doesn't show anyone close enough to make an identification. Just a bunch of guys on a beach in the distance.

If Carrington won't talk, I think that it's going to be pretty tough to track down the photographer.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 08:46:41 EDT
From:         Tom Roberts
Subject:      Re: Exchange of ideas

Ric's responses to Mr. Bolinger clearly demonstrate why this off-topic "exchange of ideas" detracts from the forum.  I personally enjoy reading about the various conspiracy notions (most don't qualify as theories).  Some are quite entertaining.  Some may be relevant to the TIGHAR investigation, if they address what happened to AE and FN and could be substantiated.

However, Mr. Bolinger's beliefs don't seem bear on Earhart's disappearance in any meaningful way.  Publishing his off-topic writings on the forum, while they may be interesting, takes time away from the real search.  The purpose of the forum is well defined, and many of us joined based on that stated purpose.  Ric and Pat are already spread very thin.  Responding to postings of this sort, especially the process of providing (and documenting) rational refutation of some of the irrelevant conspiracy claims, is simply a waste of their valuable time.

The "conspiracy" crowd has many avenues to exchange ideas; some derive a good living from it.  They don't need access to this forum for that, and we don't need to go off on conspiracy tangents.  Mr. Bolinger and others with ideas/information germane to the disappearance are welcome to participate in the forum in a manner consistent with the ground rules, but we can't let them hi-jack it.

Keep a tight rein, Ric.  That's how Executive Directors conduct business!!
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:00:35 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Exchange of ideas

In reply to Daryl Bolinger's message, one of the reasons why it took the gov't so long to declassify the AE material was (1) the files are extensive, and filled with unclassified and restricted (mostly ship direction orders) messages and materials; (2) the files also contained personal messages sent to/from various civilian parties involved in the flight.  Communication regulations of that time restricted release of these personal messages until the parties involved said it was OK to do so.  What do you do when one of the parties dies or disappears?  Further, the voluminous material located in Honolulu, Samoa, Washington, San Francisco, etc. would require lots and lots of man-hours to go through and filter out the restricted information (I know...I went through it all with a fine-tooth comb, taking five years).  The Navy at that time was severely undermanned and underfinanced.  As for radio D/F stations, yes the Navy was trying to set up a D/F facility in the Pacific, but their equipment was ancient.  PAA's equipment was state-of-the art, and was far superior to anything the Navy had for D/Fing.  The Navy D/F facility was trying to do something with what it had, and it did a good job...but in retrospect, it was not the end-all conspiratorial people want it to be.  Finally, Safford's manuscript cannot be found in the Library of Congress (although he worked there after he retired), because it is unpublished.  It really doesn't have a lot to say that is new...mostly a diatribe against the books that came out in the 60's and 70's. All in all, one can read a conspiratorial bent to all of this, but one needs to research the context, regulations governing behaviour at the time to really understand why things were not open and publicly available.  It is laughable to suppose the gov't is competent enough to keep a huge conspiracy for 60-odd years, let alone a year or two.  There were literally 100's of people involved in the AE flight, and most of them would have had to know something of a plot.  The gov't is just not competent enough to keep a conspiracy of this magnitude (believe me, I work for them!).  It is hard to prove a negative, though (i.e. the gov't was not involved in a conspiracy).  One of the best pieces of evidence against it was that all radio messages received by AE at Lae were mailed back to Putnam by civilians at Lae.  There were no weather reports or forecasts for areas outside her flight path.  If she was spying on the Japanese, surely the gov't would have provided her ample weather information for her flight. 

Randy Jacobson
**************************************************************

From Ric

I'd like to restate my invitation for Daryl to stay with us and help us figure all this out.  The forum is a pretty tough-minded bunch, as well it should be. If it's any consolation, I periodically get hanged, drawn and  quartered if I stray from the straight and narrow. We don't pretend to have all the answers (just some of them) and we need all the help we can get.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:04:08 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Exchange of ideas

Ref:- Daryl Bolinger's posting about the instigation and operation of the "Pacific Net", specifically whether it was used to track AE/FN's flight :-

I've re-read the 6:14-15 radio message and tried to put myself in the said position. I think Mr. Bolinger may be trying to imply that AE was asking for a bearing from those supposedly tracking her on this "Net".

The obvious objection here, bearing in mind that this facility carried the most secret rating going, is that surely AE could not hope to elicit a response to her queries on an open channel in an unciphered manner from such a facility. Such a response would give away valuable strategic information about positions etc. to any listening potential enemy. What I'm trying to say here is that the "Net" would be for passive surveillance only.

Simon #2120
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:21:52 EDT
From:         Rui Batista
Subject:      Re: Exchange of ideas??!!

Ric wrote:

>There is nothing suspicious here.  The horse is dead.
>
> Love to mother,
> Ric

To an observer not involved in the daily activities of TIGHAR and this emotional Amelia Earhart search, your response to seems to be a bit blunt. I can understand you not wanting to waste time going off focus/subject (I won't ask what all the nonsense about movies and ping-pong balls was about!). I don't see things as black and white as you do to warrant such a response. Nor  do I believe that you are as naive as to believe the US Government is incapable of sacrificing people for their pet projects. (Especially back in the days of focus.) I'm not suggesting you take to heart every  crack pot idea. I think it would be a good idea not to decimate those ideas which are different from yours, but encourage those who provide those different ideas to put forth evidence supporting theirs. I think only then will more creativity come of this form (Of the thousands of posting to this forum, less than one hundred are of any significance.) Lets face it. You are going to need all the help you can get. You are looking for a needle in Kansas  (the state). Alienating people is not a good way of getting support, nor credibility.
--
Rui J. S. Batista
**************************************************************

From Ric

Yes, I was a bit blunt.  No, I don't wish or intend to alienate anyone.  Yes, we need all the help we can get.  No, I don't think that I ever said or implied that governments don't keep secrets (or at least try to).  Yes, I do try to encourage those whose ideas differ from ours to provide evidence that meets a reasonable standard.  No, we will not waste time on unfounded fantasy. And, after 61 years of myth and rumor, I'd say that a hundred significant messages in a few months ain't too shabby.  Hope I'm not being too blunt.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:05:05 EDT
From:         Craig Fuller
Subject:      Re: Sydney Crash

>2-2-V-1, the section of aircraft skin found in 1991... would pretty
>much have to have come from the outboard wing or the extreme tail because the
>rest of the airplane burned up

I would disagree with this statement as it is possible for any part of the plane to have come apart from the aircraft and fallen out of the burn area. This statement is true for any of the other artifacts. However I would agree that the damage at the rivet seam is not typical from a collision of this type, the NTSB said it showed evidence of a fluid explosion from the inside if I remember correctly.

>2-1, the navigator's bookcase.  We're quite sure that this didn't come
>from the Electra. This type of bookcase - Consolidated Part Number 28F2043 -
>was designed for installation in a PBY but this particular one was modified
>in the same way as bookcases installed in B-24s.  Might Baer Field have had a
>bunch of these as part of the modification of other types for overseas ferry?

According to the History of Baer Field they did not work on any Consolidated aircraft, so I find it highly unlikely that Douglas called for a Consolidated part to be installed as a field mod, but anything is possible.

LTM
Craig Fuller
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:29:51 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Lost & Found Sound again

Here's the latest from the public radio folks.  I forwarded the various feedback (no pun intended) about 1930s monotone radio styles.  I did explain that our radio historians are interested in the evolution of the technology. 
*****************************************
Dear Ric,
Thanks for spreading the world.  And for the suggestions.  One question off the bat.  When you say "radio historians" -- do you mean broadcast on radio stations or radio in planes.  I'm fascinated. In this series for the millennium we're trying to capture endangered sounds, extract sounds, landmark sounds, sounds that are aural icons.

So the engines, the voices, the crackle of radio transmissions, propellers---all are of deep interest.

Could you send us a copy of the email you sent out?  That would be great for us to see.

Another story we're working is called "The Black Box"--about the invention, history and legacy of the tape recorders that capture airborne transmissions -- especially as planes are crashing -- and as they search for them.

We're looking at innovation in sound that change the course of American life-- such as the black box, the laugh track, etc...

Thanks again for your interest and time.  We look forward to meeting you soon.

Warm Regards,
Davia & Sandra
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:56:26 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Canton photo

From Ric

Chuck Jackson 2089 has found a very nice satellite photo of Canton Island on line.  Go to http://www.hawastsoc.org/solar/raw/earth/canton.gif

The runway 09/27 is visible at the northwest corner of the island.  The dump where Bruce put the engine is just off the east end of that runway.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:08:14 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Wreck Photo

Ref:- Andrew McKenna's excellent Wreck Photo posting, perhaps we should form a Wreck Photo project group, a la Noonan Project.

Anyone interested ?

Simon Ellwood  #2120
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:16:58 EDT
From:         Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Adamant's logs

Regarding the aircraft wreck photo and the HMS Adamant. I haven't been paying close attention, but didn't Walt's report indicate that there was a period for which the records were missing for the ship? Meaning that there is a time frame in which its whereabouts are unaccounted for? Wasn't that during the early or late 50's? Of course I could have been dreaming all this. 
blue skies, -jerry

**************************************************************

From Ric

You're right.  I had overlooked that.  Walt says,

"Deck logs for the HMS Adamant are missing from the archives for the period from May 1948 through April 1951, except for the month of July 1950."

Lest we get too excited about this, Adamant left Hong Kong in January of 1948 and sailed home to England via the Suez Canal, arriving in Portsmouth in April.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:24:38 EDT
From:         Dick Pingrey
Subject:      HF radio communications

It may interest Forum readers to know that the airlines were still communicating with air traffic control by H.F. (High Frequency) radio on long over ocean flights when I retired from United Airlines three years ago.  Although satellite communications on VHF or UHF was certainly technically possible it was not developed for this particular use as late as three years ago and I strongly suspect H.F. is still being used on most if not all long over water flights.

Position reports are normally given every 10 degrees of longitude on east west flights and 10 degrees of latitude on north south flights. Occasionally, during high sun spot (solar flair) activity, H.F. communications was so difficult that it would take several hours to transmit a position report.  I recall one flight from South Africa to Robert's Field, Monrovia where we tried to send a position report to South Africa ATC for several hours with out success.  Eventually we sent the message to Rio De Janeiro, Brazil and they relayed to both South Africa and (Speedbird British Control) in Zurich, Switzerland.  We eventually established contact with Zurich and sent our position report to them until we were in VHF range (200 miles) from Monrovia.

The point here is that H.F. radio communications are difficult even with the best equipment.  Transmissions heard thousands of miles away can't be heard 100 miles away in many cases.  Radio waves skip off the ionized upper atmosphere in ways that are not always predictable.  Now days the airlines use a system known as "celcal" so that a bell sounds when they are being called by ATC on H.F. radio.  In earlier times one needed to monitor the radio for a call at all times.  This was an exhausting assignment as the static was loud and constant.

Dick Pingrey 908C
**************************************************************

From Ric

It also explains why AE was so specific about when she would transmit and when she would listen for messages.  She didn't want to sit there and listen to crashing static of 20 hours.  When the Coast Guard ignored her instructions and sent transmissions to her off-schedule they may as well have been talking into their coffee cups.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:35:43 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Campfire sites

Suppose the campfire site TIGHAR found turns out to be of recent origin.  Where does that leave us?  We are left with some shoe parts, TIGHAR's and Gallagher's, that are a little hard to explain.  These shoe parts, and Gallagher's sextant box, are about the only things found to date that seem highly likely to connect to the Earhart flight.  We have nothing definite on the bones at this time, nor on the various metal and plastic pieces.

Gallagher found parts of a woman's shoe near his campfire site in 1940.  He did not find the shoe parts TIGHAR found in 1991.  Why didn't he find these other shoe parts despite searching the area?

Because they were not there.

It had been about 3 years since Amelia and Fred had been there... And perished there.  In the meantime the shoes had moved about. Maybe it was the crabs.  Maybe it was torrential rains that must have occurred during those three years.  Some shoe parts, apparently from two different shoes, ended up in the vicinity of the TIGHAR campfire site.  They had a lot of years to migrate about. They may have been there when the later campers built their fire.  They didn't notice the old shoe parts or, If they did, they took no notice of them.

Then TIGHAR came along in 1991 and definitely did take notice of the old, deteriorated shoe parts!  And they found the remains of the later campfire.  Chance?  Coincidence?  Maybe it has to do with the lay of the land and the way water runs.

Gallagher found considerably less than half a skeleton.  TIGHAR has found no bones or bone fragments.  Even after 60 years, I think there might be some at Gallagher's campfire site.  TIGHAR has searched with a metal-detector and found only a brass eyelet that was once part of one of the shoes.

If this was the place where Amelia and Fred, one or both, perished, I would expect more metal objects of some kind to be found.  Gallagher searching 3 years after the fact and without aid of a metal-detector might well not have found anything more.

I think TIGHAR's campfire site is not Gallagher's campfire site. The two sites may not be far apart.  How do we find Gallagher's site?  My only thought is to look to higher ground.  Objects moved about in more or less random manner, crabs, rain, wind, whatever, tend to move to lower places.

Was Gallagher's site all dug up with coconut planting?  That would mean sifting and metal-detector -- and scrutinizing every particle!  Maybe it's a bit of bone -- or part of a Parker pen!

Maybe it's too much to hope for that "The Gallagher Letters" might be found and that they would provide more clues to the exact location of his campfire site as well as answers to a number of other questions.

***************************************************************

From Ric

I can't fault your logic.  In some respects it would be good news if it turns out that our site is not Gallagher's site because, as you say, if we can find Gallagher's site there may (should) be more there.  If we do have the coincidence of two campfires and if the shoes did move (certainly possible) then I agree that the "real" site is not far away.

It sort of comes down to our old friend the label fragment.  If it was burned in the fire (which appears to be the case) then it is is contemporaneous with the fire.  And if the label is modern, so is the fire.  Gotta get that label pinned down.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:56:46 EDT
From:         Roger Kelley
Subject:      Re: Model planes

A model of A.E.s Electra?

With a 12" wing span (or better) and option for extended or retracted landing gear.

I'll buy that in a heart beat.

Love to Mother,
Roger Kelley, #2112
****************************************************************

From Deb

I would love to see a model airplane. I know 'garage models' existed of the Electra around here several years ago, but they were never plentiful. Also, Tootsietoy made a diecast Electra in 1937 or so. It would be 
great to see one of those recast with her plane's numbers on it. I've looked up and down the Internet, and around town, for either item. Occasionally I can find a Tootsietoy on sell at eBay, but you have to bid on it, and usually it goes out of my price range rather quickly. I would also like to see a working replica of a sextant. It doesn't need to be full size, perhaps just keychain size.

Deb

*************************************************************
From Tom Robison 2179

Does anyone know if there is a plastic or resin kit of a Lockheed Model 10 on the market?

Tom
**************************************************************
From Ric

I am in touch with a company that has produced a resin 1/48 scale model of Earhart's Electra.  The company says that it has been meticulously researched for accuracy, but I want to see a photo (which is supposedly enroute to me now). They have assured me that they're willing to make any changes that may be necessary if we see problems with the detailing on the model.

Our thought, at present, is to first make sure that the model is accurate to NR16020 at the time of its disappearance and then make a special commemorative edition, complete with a specially engraved stand, available as a fund-raiser for the project.  I'll report further as we learn more. =========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:01:04 EDT
From:         Mike
Subject:      War with Japan

Re: "America" knowing it would eventually have a war with Japan...

1. Wasn't Japan fighting China from around 1932? (China being an important friend at the time.) And with Japan moving into a controlling position in the Pacific lines of communication to the Philippines etc. it seems reasonable that the idea was considered.

2. Billy Mitchell said (I believe in the early 30's) that "early some Sunday morning" Japan would attack Pearl Harbor.

3. Patton wanted to continue on into Russia after taking Germany, and "get it over with".

Well, I guess some people knew. But then, we had an official plan for war with Great Britain at the time, too.

Mike
***************************************************************

From Ric

My point exactly.  There's a big difference between contingency planning and national policy.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:08:43 EDT
From:         Mike
Subject:      Disappearing artifacts

If you'll start referring to "a government agency that mysteriously and 'accidentally' lost an important Earhart artifact" I think you'll start repairing your image with the conspiracy buffs!

Mike

*************************************************************

From Ric

Artifact 2-2-V-8 was sitting on the lab table at NTSB in a ziplock bag filled with styrofoam peanuts (because it was fairly fragile).  The cleaning lady apparently threw it out, thinking that it was just a bag of peanuts.  The next day she quit and moved back to Japan.

Love to mother,
Ric
( I made up that last part.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:31:47 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Conspiracy stuff

1. I agree with Ric's stand on the conspiracy buffs -- I LOVE it when you talk that way, Ric -- and the sentiments of Tom Robert's message posted on Tuesday at 14:11.  For the conspiracy crowd the less proof they have the more sure they are, simply because the lack of proof is proof the government (or whoever) is manipulating things.  However, the conspiracy crowd does on occasion stumble on to something worthwhile.  But until they do, I would encourage them to do SOME INDEPENDENT RESEARCH, like TIGHAR has done, and then bring their physical evidence forward.  Oops!  If they had hard evidence, then it would no longer be a conspiracy, now would it?

Ric, keep your powder dry and stick to your guns.

2.  I know I'm late to the wreck-photo issue but  . . .How do we know the pic was taken on a Pacific island?  The vegetation may suggest that, but back in 1975 I was in IRELAND and ate at a hotel that had palm trees and other "tropical looking" flora lining its walkways.  That was awfully far north for palm trees, I thought at the time, and took photos to prove it to my buds back here.  So, unless we have more proof than just somebody's word (and that seems questionable from the recent talk on the AEForum) we could surmise the photo could be from any tropical or near-tropical (or pseudo-tropical, i.e., Ireland) locale.

Just a thought.
**************************************************************

From Ric

Well, back when we were first working on the Wreck Photo we got pretty obsessive about identifying the probable locale via the appearance of the vegetation.  We took the photo to (now deceased) Dr. Fosberg at the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History.  Fosberg was very much the grand old man of botany at the Smithsonian and had actually been to Nikumaroro (and many, many other Pacific atolls) to study the plant life.

He saw the vegetation visible in the photo as typical of Central Pacific atoll beachfronts.  He pointed out how the size of the various grasses, bushes and trees gradually increases with distance from the camera.  He said, " I would expect that the person taking this picture was standing on a beach."  He also felt that the palm trees in the background were mature coconut palms at least fifty years old which had been subjected either to an infestation of rhinoceros beetles or prolonged drought.  He said that there had been a serious rhinoceros beetle problem in the Southwest Pacific in the years following WWII, but that it had not reached into the Central Pacific.  Niku, of course, has always had a problem with periodic droughts.  Most of the cocos on Niku were planted after the island was first settled in 1939 but there were five surviving groves of trees planted in 1892.

At the end of our session with Fosberg he said, "Yes, this photo could have been taken on Gardner."  Of course, that doesn't mean that it was, but the evaluation of the vegetation was a little more involved than "it looks sort of tropical."  However, if digital enhancement turns up an empty Guinness bottle we'll need to rethink that.
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 12:41:10 EDT
From:         Jeff lange
Subject:      Electra prop

I read the reports from Bruce and Bob about their success with getting the prop to spin on AOL. Unfortunately, no matter what I try, I just can't get the engine to go. Did Bruce remove the starter when he "took" the engine??

Please let me know I am not alone with this trouble so I can retain what sanity I have left!

Jeff Lange # 0748C
**************************************************************

From Ric

(pssst - don't tell anybody but I'm on AOL and I can't get the thing to spin either.  I suspect that it's still being worked on.  We just got a really neat authentic 1930s Hamilton Standard logo to put on it courtesy of Jim Cook 2072 at Hamilton Standard.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:40:40 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Funding Report 7/26-29/98

Report for 7/26-29/98

One Year New Memberships - 0
Special Two Year New Memberships - Houghton, Johannes, Polley, Fowler (numbers pending)

One Year Renewals - 0
Special Two Year Renewals - Robinson 2114, Cord 0904, Madio 2042

Subtotal - $490

Publications and merchandise orders - $49.95

Special Contributions:
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $30
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $30
Cash contribution from TIGHAR member - $30

Subtotal - $139.95

Total this date - $629.95
Total to date - $8,049.35
Still to raise - $41,950.65
Days remaining - 33

Note:  All donations to TIGHAR are tax deductible within the limits of U.S. law.  Contributions of stock rather than cash can have significant additional benefits to the contributor through the avoidance of capital gains taxes. Consult your tax preparer for advice on how to make your contribution to TIGHAR best benefit both you and the organization. 
Thank you.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:15:14 EDT
From:         Asa Bricker
Subject:      Re: Other theories

Thanks for putting the `Other Theories' letter from Mike Rejsa up so everyone can read it.

It's evident to me that you and others have invested thousands of hours to research the AE & FN story. I can understand why you believe the plane may be on Niku. . . I also understand why you want to keep the forum focused. . . I'd like to see the mystery solved also, however I do believe there were agreements made that we're not aware of (who knows if we ever will be).

Aside from that I have two main reasons for this e-mail:

You commented that you have a copy Captain Safford's work titled "Amelia Earhart's Last Flight: A Tragedy of Errors." I would like to buy a copy, let me know the price.

Second, I'm a member of the Washington Pilot's Asso. I plan to do a 30 minute talk at a future meeting about the AE & FN flight. I also plan to talk about TIGHAR, your web site, the island search, and the forum. Other than printing off pages of the web site for hand outs, do you have any suggestions. I'll also address the membership drive that's currently going on (Do you have and ending date for the special 2 for 1 deal). By the way I'm not interested in buying ping pong balls but I do look forward to the model you commented on. Thanks for your time.

Asa Bricker
**************************************************************
From Ric

I should have known better.

What I have is a photocopy of an unpublished manuscript of something well over a hundred pages by "L.F. Safford."  The table of contents sheet implies that the name of the work is "Flight Into Yesterday" and states that it was "Revised 23 June 1971."  Later parts of the manuscript have the title as "Amelia Earhart's Last Flight - A Tragedy of Errors."  The impression I get is that Safford changed his mind about what he wanted to call the piece.  There is an introduction by "Bob Stanley", an ex-navy pilot who had participated in the Lexington's search for Earhart and a number of indices of various press releases, radio messages, etc.  The entire point of the manuscript appears to be to debunk any notion of covert government involvement in the Earhart flight.

TIGHAR certainly can not sell Safford's work.  We don't own it and I have no idea what its copyright status may be.  (Randy - Do you know where there might be a publicly accessible copy of Safford's manuscript?)

I may regret this, but I have to call you on your statement, "I'd like to see the mystery solved also, however I do believe there were agreements made that we're not aware of (who knows if we ever will be)."  Forgive me, but that sounds to me like a classic conspiracy mind-set.  In ten years of struggling with the Earhart case I've come to understand that there is no reasoning with someone who "just knows" something.  It does no good to review facts and sources with people who think like that because their beliefs have nothing to do with facts and sources.  It has more to do with how they see and cope with the world.  No matter what is found they will never be convinced that there isn't a secret hidden layer behind it all.  If I've misinterpreted your meaning, I apologize.

About your address to the Washington Pilots Assoc. - we're always happy to support our members' efforts to spread our message.  At this point you're not a TIGHAR member and it doesn't sound like you're much in agreement with our message.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

The sale on new two-year memberships and two-year renewals for present members at the reduced price of $70 ends on Monday August 3rd.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:56:44 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Amelia Everywhere!

Checking the local 10 o'clock news "show"... switching to local university cable channel during endless commercials... running a documentary about some guys doing puppets in the early 1930s. Interesting...

Suddenly, there was Amelia Earhart!  I think the puppeteers did a show for that female flyers group she was associated with.

A magazine called, "Inside Flyer" fell into my hands... never seen or heard of it before... probably never see it again.

There was Amelia Earhart!  A full-page TWA ad: "You Don't Have to be a Legend to be Recognized for Your Travel."  A new Frequent Flyer program as of May 1, 1998.

There are three photos.  One is certainly AE.  I guess the others are too.  Top billing photo is wearing a helmet... hard to be sure but it's probably AE.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:41:41 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Other theories and the Safford MS.

Ric obtained his copy of Safford's manuscript from me, and I got it from a AE researcher quite some years ago (and I forgot from whom, but I believe it might be Stanley).  I know of no publicly available source.  If folks want it, they can have it for the price of copying and mailing.  Let me know at rjacobson@erols.com  At that price, I'd advise against it....it is messy (pages out of order; chapters out of order and duplicated, and things skip around quite a bit.  Too boot, there is nothing much there that is not already known elsewhere.  Of it all, I caught one thing: radio call station PAE in the Itasca radio logs is what Safford claims is Lae, NG.  I've hecked all available resources I could find in the Library of Congress to no avail.  However, stations beginning in P belong to the Netherlands, and the radio station at Lae belonged to Guinea AirWays, which was a Dutch outfit at the time (I think!).  NG belonged to Australia at the time.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:43:22 EDT
From:         Forest Blair
Subject:      Re: Canton photo

Outstanding photo of Canton.  Great work!!  Thanks!!  Can you locate similar ones for Gardener, Sidney, Phoenix & Hull?  Would the source of photo have any info re: on-earth land surveys (celestial shots) made in 1970-1971 time period?

Forest Blair #2149
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:49:43 EDT
From:         Bob Williams
Subject:      Re: HF Communications

I enjoyed reading your thoughts on HF Communications.  I have enjoyed operating the HF bands through the years both amateur and commercial.  When I hired into Pan Am at SFO in 1955, the aircraft were all equipped with SelCal (selective calling) systems.  Just the kind of communications that Amelia would have liked (and needed).  Each aircraft was assigned a combination of four tones as it own.  In those days the aircraft's radio call sign was its tail number and not the flight number as is used today.  I still listen around on the aircraft frequencies and find they are still calling in their position reports and getting calls with SelCal.

Sometime around 1957, at the peak of the sunspot cycle, I remember making an on the air ground radio check from one of the B-377's parked on the ramp at the PAA base.  What made this contact unique was that it was with Singapore. A distance of 8,500 miles from San Francisco. 1937 was also one of the peak years in the solar cycle and Amelia's radio signals could have also skipped great distances as well.

Love To Mother,
Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:50:38 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Noonan Project

If Fred did any drinking, he apparently kept it under control in New Orleans - no arrest record there between 1914 and 1937.

Smooth Sailing
Ron Dawson 2126
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:52:08 EDT
From:         Kenny Feder
Subject:      Re: Amelia Everywhere!

Vern Klein wrote:

>...Suddenly, there was Amelia Earhart!  I think the puppeters did a
>show for that female flyers group she was associated with.
> ...
>There was Amelia Earhart!  A full-page TWA ad: "You Don't Have to
>be a Legend to be Recognized for Your Travel."

And check out the "Think Different" ad for Apple Computer on the back cover of the June issue of Scientfic American.  Quite a lovely photo actually.

Ken Feder
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:54:07 EDT
From:         Bob Brown
Subject:      Re: Model planes

I would buy one of those in a heart beat also.  Sounds really nifty.

Bob
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 08:55:57 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Campfire sites

I can't fault Vern's logic either, and am puzzling about the same questions. The trouble with the idea of looking to higher ground for the source of migrating shoe parts is that there really isn't any; Aukaraime is pretty flat but for localized low spots, and the "shoe site" occupies an area between such spots.  There's no significantly higher elevation from which stuff would have migrated.  It could easily have migrated through crab action, but in this case it should be dispersed, not concentrated, and there's no reason for it to be associated with the burn site.  It could have migrated during clearing of the land -- which indeed HAS been pretty thoroughly cleared for coco planting (in ca. 1940-41) and may have experienced clearing more recently.  The shoe parts could even have been inadvertently gathered together with a bunch of vegetation that somebody at some time pulled together and burned (This kind of thing happened to me with a clip of machine-gun rounds when clearing a Japanese AA battery in Chuuk, with pretty scary results -- the only time I've been brought under fire by an archeological site).

One thing that cheers me, and provides some direction, is the second shoe heel, found in '91 near the east edge of the search area several meters away from the site of the burn.  We didn't search very much further east in '97, but there's a fair expanse of flat ground in that direction, which includes a tree on which some rather enigmatic (in that we haven't been able to connect them with any known people) Gilbertese names are carved.  I stupidly assumed that the tree had to be long post-Earhart, and paid no attention to it besides recording the names, but my tropical biologist daughter says it's not impossible that it was standing in the '30s.  I think that's the direction to look -- which of course will guarantee that whatever we find will be somewhere else, and discovered on the last day of the fieldwork. 
Tom King
Project Archeologist
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:24:49 EDT
From:         Daryll Bolinger
Subject:      Morgenthau transcript

 When I first found the TIGHAR website, I tried to access the past Forums, to get up to speed. When I did I got a blank screen, was I doing something wrong, probably. What I am saying is that it is hard to know what another person knows or does not know. I did not know TIGHAR was anti-conspiracy, what ever that means. I did not think my ideas were crackpot and a waste of time. Any time I said something I gave the source that I used if anybody wanted to check on it, I asked nobody to take my word for it. I think someone said there was no reason NOT to believe that the government has not  been  up-front about AE. That letters to the Forum about conspiracy theories should be edited out so not to waste time. I would like Ric and the Forum to comment on the Morgenthau Transcript. I got my copy from the FDR Library.

For the Forum members not familiar with it, it is a transcript of a staff meeting conducted by Henry Morgenthau Jr. Secretary of the Treasury under FDR. The meeting took place on May 13, 1938, Most of the meeting concerned the WPA, relief, commodities, etc. The secretary transcribed everything that was said during the meeting, even a one sided telephone conversation with Tommy ( Malvina Scheider)( Malvina Thompson) Eleanor Roosevelt's personal secretary. Eleanor Roosevelt and AE were good friends.

H.M.Jr= Henry Morgenthau Jr.
 Chauncey= ?
 Gibbons= ?

H.M. Jr. :
(
On White House Phone)   Oh, hello.-                Oh, thanks. Hello, Tommy ( Malvina Scheider). How are you? This letter that Mrs. Roosevelt wrote me about trying to get the report on Amelia Earhart. Now, I've been given a verbal report. If we're going to release this, it's just going to smear the whole reputation of Amelia Earhart, and my..... Yes, but I mean if we give it to this one man we've got to make it public; we can't let one man see it. And if we ever release the report of the Itasca on Amelia Earhart, any reputation she's got is gone, because- and I'd like to- I'd really like to return this to you.

 (Continuing)   Now, I know what the Navy did, I know what the Itasca did, and I know how Amelia Earhart absolutely disregarded all orders, and if we ever release this thing, goodbye Amelia Earhart's reputation. Now, really- because if we give the access to one, we have to give it to all. And my advice is that - and if the President ever heard that somebody questioned that the Navy hadn't made the proper search , after what those boys went through - I think they searched, as I remember it, 50,000 square miles, and every one of those planes was out, and the boys just burnt themselves out physically and every other way searching for her. And if - I mean I think he'd get terribly angry if somebody - because they just went the limit, and so did the Coast Guard. And we have the report of all those wireless messages and everything else, what that woman
- happened to her the last few minutes. I hope I've just got to never make it public, I mean.
- O.K. - Well, still if she wants it, I'll tell her
- I mean what happened. It isn't a very nice story. 
- Well, yes. There isn't anything additional to something like that. You think up a good one, - Thank you.
(Conversation ends)

(To Chauncey ) Just send it back.
Chauncey : Sure.

H.M.Jr: I mean we tried - people want us to search again those islands, after what we have gone through. You (Gibbons ) know the story, don't you?

Gibbons: We have evidence that the thing is all over, sure. Terrible. It would be awful to make it public.
______________________________________
This staff meeting took place in May , 1938 about 10 months after AE was lost. I asked myself what did they mean?

1. Smear her reputation.
2. Disregarded all orders.
3. All those wireless messages and everything else.
4. Search again those islands.
5.And that last statement from Gibbons;
"We have evidence that the thing is all over, sure . Terrible. It would be awful to make it public.

Total number of pages of the transcript- 24.
About AE, 1 page and a small part of another.

DARYLLB
***************************************************************

From Ric

I'll repeat the instructions for accessing the forum archives in a separate posting.

I thought that I had dealt with the Morgenthau transcript in an earlier posting but apparently not, so here goes.

The Morgenthau transcript is a classic example of information that must be reviewed in its correct historical context to be understood.

Henry Morgenthau was FDR's Secretary of the Treasury.  In those days, the Coast Guard was part of the Treasury Department so Morgenthau was technically the head of the Coast Guard.  At the end of the unsuccessful search for Earhart, Commander Warner K. Thompson, the captain of the Itasca, wrote up a long report entitled "Radio Transcripts Earhart Flight" which reproduced all of the radio traffic pertaining to Earhart's flight, disappearance and the search, interspersed with Thompson's narrative and commentary.  The report is dated 19 July 1937.  In accordance with Coast Guard regulations prohibiting the release of private messages (many of the radio messages were non- government) the report was classified and not made public.  That was convenient for the Coast Guard from a public relations standpoint because Thompson's report (not officially declassified until 23 September 1985) thoroughly trashes Amelia Earhart and lays the blame for the flight's disappearance entirely upon her as an incompetent, willfully negligent, and ultimately "frantic" pilot.  Not surprisingly, Thompson fails to mention the numerous errors made by the Coast Guard.  He also altered some of the messages received from Earhart - when compared to the original log - so as to support his own theory and justify his own actions.  Of course, nobody knew this at the time.  What Morgenthau had in his hands was an indictment of an American hero.

Meanwhile, Earhart's friend and technical advisor Paul Mantz was not at all convinced that a thorough search had been carried out of the most likely place for the flight to have gone down - the islands of the Phoenix Group.  At the time of the search, he and Putnam had both publicly expressed their opinion that the palne was probably on an uninhabited island or reef.  Mantz had seen Thompson's report at the San Francisco Coast Guard headquarters immediately after the search but had not taken any notes.  On April 26, 1938, knowing  that AE and the First Lady had been friends, Mantz sent a letter to Eleanor asking if she could intercede with the Treasury Dept. to get him a copy of the report. On May 10, 1938 Mrs. Roosevelt wrote a note to Morgenthau saying "...Now comes this letter.  I don't know if you can send the man these records, but, in any case, I am sending you the letter and let me know whatever your decision may be.  Affectionately, E.R."

Hence the follow-up call on May 13, 1938 by Eleanor's personal secretary.  Now read the transcript again.  It makes perfect sense.  The reference to Earhart disregarding orders is quite indicative of the basic problem AE had with Thompson.  She considered the Coast Guard to be there to help her and, in typical Amelia style, she told them what she wanted them to do.  Thompson was not about to take instructions from a girl and, whether by negligence or design, largely ignored the schedules and protocols Earhart had issued.  I have no idea what Gibbons was referring to when he said, "We have evidence that the thing is all over.."  but it's pretty thin evidence to build a conspiracy on.

The true significance (or rather insignificance) of the Morgenthau transcript was fully exposed as early as 1987 in Carol Osborne's book "Amelia My Courageous Sister."  That has not prevented conspiracy authors from peddling it as something it is not.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:05:23 EDT
From:         Rui S.J. Batista
Subject:      Re: Exchange of ideas??!!

> And, after 61 years of myth and rumor, I'd say that a hundred significant
> messages in a few months ain't too shabby.  Hope I'm not being too blunt.
>
> Love to mother,
> Ric

As a matter of fact I think you are, and perhaps a bit cheeky too.  If you are serious at all about raising funds for your "worthwhile cause", you should be a bit more sincere. You never know who is monitoring the worthiness of your project.

Believe me, I'm not suggesting you listen to unsubstantiated ideas. This "conspiracy" tar brush you paint everyone with who's ideas don't conform with yours is disturbing. (Perhaps part of your flag waving upbringing.) Don't forget one Oliver North who attempted shred all evidence. It happened before, and will happen again. (I don't need bring up current "affairs".)

Don't get me wrong. I have no opinion as to what  actually happened, other than that Ms Earhart had a big ego that pushed technology beyond its limits. She deserves better than the speculation that goes on. Keep up the good work, but for her sake, be more diplomatic.
--
Rui J. S. Batista

"Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. The ones that change the world!"
***************************************************************
From Ric

I'm trying to figure out why someone who advises as you do uses the quote you use at the end of your email.

I'll plead guilty to being cheeky.  The name of the organization is pronounced tiger, not chipmunk. And I assure you that I am serious about raising money for this worthwhile cause.

I plead not guilty to your charge that I paint everyone who disagrees with TIGHAR with a conspiracy brush.  In my experience, most people who have an opinion about what happened to Earhart think that she simply ran out of fuel and crashed at sea.  They allege no conspiracy, but many of them are quite sure that we're dead wrong.  That's okay.  We're not finished yet. 

I appreciate your urging that we keep up the good work, but your suggestion that I be more diplomatic "for her sake" offers me an opportunity to clarify a point. TIGHAR is not conducting this investigation for Amelia Earhart.  Amelia Earhart is dead.  Whether she died on a desert island, drowned in the ocean or was executed as a spy is of absolutely no consequence.  What IS important is that the popularity of the mystery surrounding her disappearance presents a unique opportunity to demonstrate in a very public way, how to find the truth - how to figure things out - how to think rationally.  By struggling in this public forum with the difficult investigative issues presented by the Earhart case, we offer a living example of how the scientific method works.

And please don't make assumptions about my "flag waving upbringing."  I didn't have one.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:30:22 EDT
From:         Tom Robison
Subject:      War with Japan

Ric wrote:

>My point exactly.  There's a big difference between contingency planning and
>national policy.

I agree to a point, but it seems that it was clear to US authorities as early as 1922 that Japan was going to be a threat in the world. This resulted in the infamous "5-5-3" ratio developed in the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922.

The treaty resolved, that for every five capital ships that England possessed, and every five capital ships that the US possessed, Japan could have only three of nearly equal tonnage.

I don't know all the details that went into the planning betwixt the English and the US that resulted in this ratio, but I do know that the Japanese were not happy about it (as you can imagine). They abided by it for awhile, but eventually their desire to expand the empire, abetted by a crying need for natural resources, resulted in the only thing that nations can do when they feel their back is against the wall... they lash out.

Many in Washington fully expected the Japanese imperialist movement of the 1930s, and tried to warn those who might listen... and more than a few listened, but, how can you mobilize a nation to prepare for war with a foreign nation when your own nation is crippled by a depression?

Priorities had to be placed, and the first priority was to return this county to a sound economic footing.

Even though many knew that the Japanese Empire was growing and was certainly to be a threat, it was a threat that had to be ignored, because the recovery of the country's economic system had to come first.

I think Daryl's opinion that "we knew right after WWI that we were going to have to fight Japan" is a valid one. But by the time the powers-that-be recognized the situation, we were well into the depression, and that soaked up every resource that might have been used for the defense of our Pacific "empire".

I'm surprised that the Japanese waited so long to attack the US. They knew, at least as early as 1932, that it was feasible, and had a high chance of success. Their own downfall resulted from waiting until 1941 to strike.

This has almost nothing to do with the subject of this forum, but I felt the need to express my own opinion.

Tom

**************************************************************

From Ric

I don't feel comfortable getting too deep into a discussion of between-the-wars national policy without doing research that I don't have time or a need to do right now, but I do find it odd that a country that "knew it would have to go to war with Japan" continued to sell airplanes, metal and oil to Japan right up until practically the last moment.

And yes.  This is off-topic.
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:37:02 EDT
From:         Mike
Subject:      Expiation

I am LOL over the cleaning lady decamping to Japan... but you realize that will probably turn up in some conspiracy book in a decade or so!

Apologies are due - it appears that I've stirred something up with my comments on other theories, I'm sure the extra work it caused is not a help; I guess I'm going to have to send you some cash to make up for it. Check is on the way.

In the spirit of open-mindedness, why don't you suggest to the plastic model company that they do a series? The Original Electra, the Second Electra, the Niku-crashed Electra, the Mili One-winged Electra, the Saipan Burnt Electra (with Forrestal action figure), the Hit-Nevada- Mountain Electra, etc. etc. Maybe even an aquarium model.

(P.S. Thanks for your forbearance in making the Forum so democratic!)

Mike
***************************************************************

From Ric

I love it. Anybody else want to start trouble and then send money?  This could be the best fund-raising gimmick yet.  Maybe we could institute a system of fines? (No, no, just kidding.)
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:51:35 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Morgenthau and Divulging Radio Messages

Reference Daryll Bollinger's message re the Morgenthau Transcript, and Ric's response:  Here is some additional light on why these messages were not made public.

It was not simply a matter of Coast Guard regulations, but FCC rules as well.

The Communications Act of 1934, which created the Federal Communications Commission, states in Section 605:

"No person receiving or assisting in receiving, or transmitting, or assisting in transmitting, any interstate or foreign communication by wire or radio shall divulge or publish the existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning thereof, except through authorized channels of transmission or reception, to any person other than the addressee, his agent, or attorney, or to a person employed or authorized to forward such communication to its destination, or to proper accounting or distributing officers of the various communicating centers over which the communication may be passed, or to the master of a ship under whom he is serving, or in response to a subpoena issued by a court of competent jurisdiction, or on demand of other lawful authority, and no person not being authorized by the sender shall intercept any communication and divulge or publish the existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning of such intercepted communication to any person; and no person not being entitled thereto shall receive or assist in receiving any interstate or foreign communication by wire or radio and use the same or any information contained therein for his own benefit or for the benefit of another not entitled thereto; and no person having received such intercepted communication or having become acquainted with the contents, substance, purport, effect or meaning of the same or any part thereof, knowing that such information was so obtained, shall divulge or publish the existence, contents, purport, effect, or meaning of the same or any part thereof, or use the same or any information contained therein for his own benefit or for the benefit of another not entitled thereto; PROVIDED, That this section shall not apply to the receiving, divulging, publishing, or utilizing the contents of any radio communication broadcast, or transmitted by amateurs or others for the use of the general public, or relating to ships in distress."

Wow.  Lots of legal mumbo-jumbo.  What this means in short:

What you heard on the radio, other than listening to entertainment broadcasts or to the ham bands, was (still is!) privileged information.  The only exception is traffic relating to "ships (and aircraft in the same sense) in distress."  Did Amelia ever declare an emergency?  Not really.

There were and are some pretty stiff penalties for violation of this provision.  I won't bore you with quoting the whole thing; but see Sections 501 and 502 of the same Act for the penalties.

The government would not violate its own regulations, now would it?

Just some information to help keep things in perspective, and in their proper context.

73      GA  GL  Best DX  AR
Mike E. the Radio Historian
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 15:55:01 EDT
From:         Mike Everette
Subject:      Radiotelephone Style

If anyone is curious about what the "monotone" style of radio transmission is all about, I invite them to watch the old movie "Air Force" starring John Garfield, which came out in 1943.  Besides having the best footage I know of, of the "pre-tail-gun" or "sharkfin" B-17B/C/D versions, the "monotone" voices used by the pilots and control towers are the style in question.

Also:  listen at night on the airline HF frequencies, such as 5595, 5610, 5625 KHz (single sideband mode).  They still use a variation of this dialect, even today.

73      GA  CUL  AR
Mike E. the Radio Historian
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:08:56 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Beating up on Ric!

Ric wrote:

>I love it. Anybody else want to start trouble and then send money?  This
>could be the best fund-raising gimick yet.  Maybe we could institute a system
>of fines? (No, no, just kidding.)

Hey, this is just like a county fair . . .dunk the clown . . . three balls for a quarter. . .send the guy into the tank . . . step right up!

You're right, Ric, that is a GREAT money raising idea!  Pay your dollar and beat up on the Executive Director!  I'll take ten bucks worth. . .

It Spins My Prop (SMP)
smp/domcgee/0149
=========================================================================
Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:27:05 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Periods and props

1.  RE:  That missive from Mike E. the Radio Historian quoting the 1934 FCC rule regarding passing of radio communication:  It totaled 309 words and didn't use a single period!  Mrs. Grundy would've died had she seen that.  Even in 1934 the lawyers were incomprehensible.

2.  I still get an overspeed condition when I spin your prop; it starts but won't quit.  I'm doing it on Microsoft NT Internet Explorer 4.0.  Quick pull the mixture control.

Spins My Prop -- Dennis/0149
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:41:18 EDT
From:         Michael Strickland
Subject:      Re: Exchange of ideas??!!

1. I think all this bickering about differing ideas and opinions is distracting you from plenty of real work you could be doing.  All opinions/theories/ideas should be welcome in the Forum in my opinion, but to avoid these useless threads about what should and should not be allowed, my suggestion is for you to simply post these differing theories and ideas without commentary.  It seems like your commentary on these theories generates far more controversy than the theories themselves.  That's my humble suggestion, anyway.

2. I can't take it anymore: someone please tell me what this spinning prop thing is all about!!!

3. I would be happy to purchase a commemorative Earhart model plane -- and a TIGHAR membership -- as soon as I find a full-time job.  If anyone in the San Diego area wants to offer any leads, my resume is online at http://strick.net/terranova.  Pardon the personal plug, but I promise to buy my membership with the first paycheck of my new job, when and if I find one!  ;-)

**************************************************

The spinning prop is an idea for an improvement to our Home Page. To give it a spin, go to www.morningstarinteractive.com/development/tighar.

Good luck on the job search. TIGHARs? Anybody got a job for Mike? TIGHAR needs the money!

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:44:10 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Re: War with Japan

Just a brief footnote:  prior to the 1922 conference in Washington, DC,  American cryptanalysts had broken the Japanese diplomatic code & our negotiators at that conference were fully informed beforehand just what the Japanese proposals & negotiating strategy were going to be, which enabled  the Americans & British to negotiate a treaty far less favorable to the Japanese.  Later, one of the cryptanalysts (no doubt unhappy about the fact that he had received insufficient credit for performing this code-cracking coup) published a book making public for the first time the story of the US successfully breeching Japanese & other foreign nation codes, which caused a firestorm of controversy when word reached Japan & it is believed the Japanese (having suffered a grievous loss of diplomatic "face") never forgave the US for this deception, adding fuel for the ultimate success of the militarists' effort to obtain control of the civil government, for allowing the Japanese navy to be placed in an inferior position respecting the US & British naval forces. (A position the Japanese were unable to overcome until the expiration of the treaty in December, 1936 , along with their withdrawal from the League of Nations, over their military actions in China.)

Don Neumann
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:47:33 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Expiation

>Anybody else want to start trouble and then send money?  

Since I have caused you so much trouble in the past (and present), I suspect you could retire on the amount of funds I owe you!

*******************************

And the check is in the mail, huh Randy? ;->

P
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:54:20 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      The Wreck Photo

With what we have to go on, the only thing that comes to my mind is to "broadcast" the question as widely as possible by any means possible. For a start, do you suppose "Reminisce" might do it again with the wreck photo?

Then you could hear from all those people who had an uncle who was in the Pacific and told of....  Well, you know the rest!  Or, you might get lucky.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:55:02 EDT
From:         Roger Kelley
Subject:      Canton photo

A simple question.  What is the distance from Canton to Niku island?

Thanks,
Roger Kelley, 2112

********************

About 200 NM.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:38:55 EDT
From:        Hugh Graham
Subject:      Re: Morgenthau

> Thompson's report (not officially declassified until 23 September 1985)
>  thoroughly trashes Amelia Earhart and lays the blame for the flight's
>  disappearance entirely upon her as an incompetent, willfully negligent, and
>  ultimately "frantic" pilot.

Essentially, an objective and reasonable conclusion.

Amelia Airhead was not frantic, but, as with most but not all women, she was technically incompetent.  And Ric, if you publish this, you are as brave as Amelia was.  :>)      Regards, Hugh Graham.
****************************************************************
From Ric

I'm not at all sure that I'm as brave as Amelia was, but I'm more than happy to help you expose yourself for what you are.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:56:20 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Morgenthau/Thompson

Comparing Thompson's transcripts to other versions indicate that there is no significant rewriting of messages.  A couple of typos, perhaps, and some time discrepancies (mostly 10 minutes or so), but no apparent willful changes.
Cheers.
***************************************************************

From Ric

I beg to differ.  Comparing Thompson's transcripts to other versions indicates that Thompson willfully put words in Earhart's mouth to bolster his own theory that bad weather had hindered her navigation and caused her to get lost.  I offer the following comparisons between Thompson's report and the original radio log.

Thompson's version:
0245-0248.
Heard Earhart plane on 3105 but unreadable through static.
(Comment [by Thompson]- Bellarts caught Earhart's voice and it came through loud speaker, very low monotone "cloudy and overcast".  Mr. Carey, Associated Press representative, was present.  Also Mr. Hanzlik of the United Press, both gentlemen recognized voice from previous flights to and from Hawaii.  There was no question as to hearing Earhart.  Commanding Officer was notified.  Mr Black was called.  Message was drafted for San Francisco Division by Commanding Officer.  Message was purposely terse due necessity report between Earhart schedules.)

Chief Radioman Bellarts' original log:
HEARD EARHART PLANE / BUT UNREADABLE THROUGH STATIC 0245/48

*************
Thompson's version:
0345.  Heard Earhart on phone.
(Itasca from Earhart - Itasca from Earhart ----OVERCAST - WILL LISTEN ON HOUR AND HALF HOUR ON 3105 ----WILL LISTEN ON HOUR AND HALF HOUR ON 3105.)

Chief Radioman Bellarts' original log:
EARHART HEARD FONE/  WILL LISSEN ON HOUR AND HALF ON 3105 - SEZ SHE  0345

*****************
Thompson's version:
0453.  Sent weather/code/phone/ 3105 kcs. (Heard Earhart - partly cloudy.) Volume S-1

Chief Radioman Bellarts' original log:
SENT WEATHER/CODE/FONE/ 3105 KCS -- (HEARD EARHART (PART CLDY)

Bellarts, in a 1973 interview with Elgen Long:
BELLARTS: ..the only thing we heard was here was at 0453, ah, and that --- I copied myself.  And that's all you can hear was part cloudy.  That's all I could get out of her.

LONG: Partly cloudy, huh?  Not this cloudy and overcast routine?

BELLARTS:  That static was something terrific, you know, just crashing in your ears.  And I'll guarantee you that Hanzlik and that other joker never heard that. I got a big...

LONG:  You'd be on the phones then.  You wouldn't be...

BELLARTS:  Oh, I would definitely be on the phones.  Absolutely.  Not on a loudspeaker.  You couldn't hear that. ...
*******************

Thompson also states in his report that "Itasca fully followed all Earhart schedules."  Not true.

I submit that Warner Thompson's report was at best an attempt to fill in the blanks with something that made sense to him, and at worst a major exercise in cover-your-butt fabrication.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:01:51 EDT
From:         Tim Smith
Subject:      Electra model

A model of the Electra "spins my prop".  I would buy two and build one of them for you, if it  turns out to be a kit.  After building models for over 40 years, I'll be good at it pretty soon.

Tim Smith #1142
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:05:54 EDT
From:         Roger Kelley
Subject:      crazies

Rui J. S. Batista --- 

I read your quote on the Earhart forum.  "Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. The ones that change the world!"

Your quote and opinion cries out for response.

Do these folks, (the round pegs in square holes etc, etc), change the world?

Yes, they do.

For the better?

I think not.

Roger Kelley,  2112
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:17:32 EDT
From:         Dennis McGee
Subject:      Just my opinion

1.  I would remind the people who are griping about the "cheeky" attitude of Ric, spinning props, loving mother, and the near-off-topic discussions that it is all in the spirit of fun.  My experience with TIGHAR has been that while the membership is devoted to an academic approach to answering the Earhart conundrum, it is also about FUN.  Life is terminal, but it is not serious.

The three expeditions I've made with TIGHAR have been hard work, but they have also been very enjoyable (not counting hiking five miles back to the van after blowing chow for 30 minutes deep into the Machias wilderness.).  Tromping around the Maine woods was a great emotional and mental purgative, and joining in an academic/scientific discussion about what we did or did not find -- and why -- is a great intellectual stimulant.  Science does NOT have to be boring.

2.  All of the discussion of pre-W.W.II Japan's intentions, what we knew etc. has also been useful, if only to refresh my memory and to put our present efforts into context.  I keep reminding myself that most people do their best work when their minds are loose, nimble, and open. I believe the AEForum provides that  opportunity.

3.  OK, enough serious stuff . . let's play!  Any suggestions for combining Love to Mother and Spins My Prop for an "official" TIGHAR signoff?  How about a logo of a granny hand-propping a J-3 painted in tiger stripes?  Well, OK . . then you come up with something better!

Spins My Prop
Dennis 0149

***********************************************************

From Ric

Spins My Prop,
Love to mother,
Spins my mother,
Love to prop,
Prop my mother,
Love to spin...
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:23:15 EDT
From:         Daryll Bolinger
Subject:      Just wanted to say thanks

I just wanted to say thanks for taking time to cover old ground and answering some of my questions.

The model idea is good.

The prop spins but there is no smoke, some people are never satisfied.

DARYLLB

*************************************************************

From Ric

You're more than welcome, and we'll see if we can come up with some smoke.
=========================================================================
Date:         Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:01:06 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Re: crazies

Roger Kelley's opinion that square pegs in round holes do not change the world for the better has elicited some dissenting responses that are too strong to post on the forum.  I'm sure there are better venues for philosophical discussions about the desirablity or undesirability of conformity.  Let's let it drop.