Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 10:17:07 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Int'l sextant arson

It is definitely good, sound research! Remember too that to replicate the results, you need to have the same conditions, i.e., angle of the sun (Lat/long/season) to get the same solar ray intensity. Anyone in the southern hemisphere have a sextant and a paper can label to try it with? Of course, if you get a fire started with same at a more northerly position, the Niku fire scenario would seem to be a cakewalk!--Remember only YOU can prevent forest fires!--Gene Dangelo :)
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 10:19:55 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Noonan - dehydration

Point well taken! Amebic dysentery would do it pretty fast! Heck, the possibility of contaminants is so very high, even without injury, one wouldn't last REAL long. Then again, what are the odds that only one of them would be contaminated? We can only speculate, I suppose at this point. I do appreciate your taking the time to comment!

Sorry, my syntax was not the best. I didn't mean that Fred may have been drinking ON the island. I was intending to suggest that he didn't drink AT ALL!! I suggested that someone with an alcohol problem may have already had enough ethanol in his system PRIOR to the distress to have dehydrated him to some extent, and thus hasten his demise. The fact that the evidence suggested that he may have survived her, in my mind, tended to discount him having an alcohol problem, perhaps. Of course, if your friend was dying by your side, or even if a stranger was dying by your side, only the shallowest of individuals would go off and drink, even if a case of booze washed ashore at that moment, I would think!--I Hope I cleared this up !--Gene Dangelo
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 10:30:35 EDT
From:        Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Noonan - Mary Bea and the boat

>Then she said "Maybe she met Harry (Ireland) on the boat, I don't
>remember too well, it was a long time ago"

In Don's original email with her, she said they (Fred/Mary) met on a boat and she used to go visit them in Santa Barbara. I think she is definitely confusing Ireland with Fred. Fred and Mary never lived in SB before his disappearances. They had an Oakland residence and Mary Bea's Oakland business. Mary did go to SB in 1937 according to the 1978 obit in the SB paper, obviously after July.

Blue skies,  jham #2128
**************************************************************

From Ric

Okay.  That makes sense.

***************************************************************

From Jackie

To all

Mary met Harry on the boat returning from Honolulu about April time on the Matson liner the Lurline. 1938

Jackie

**************************************************************

From Ric

Ta da!  A case of too many husbands and too many boats.  What's the source on this Jackie?
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 11:11:06 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Bones speculation

OK, I'll take a stab at a scenario.  I've been thinking about all this, and drifting toward the same speculation as Vern's.  Suppose you're right, Ric, and what AE and FN do is circumnavigate the island after whatever happens to the Electra happens.  For any of a zillion reasons, Fred's weakening, and he dies next to the fire at Aukaraime.  Amelia's been carting her extra shoes along because, as you say, she really needs them, but upon finding Fred gone, or perhaps when he's just in extremis, she gets wrought up and heads out in a desparate search of the last piece of the island they haven't looked at, hoping to find SOMETHING to save herself, and perhaps him.  She leaves her extra shoes in the process.  Or, as you've speculated, the shoes get scorched in the fire; perhaps she can't wear them, or one of them, any more.  So her shoes, or one of them, winds up on Aukaraime, and her body winds up elsewhere.

There: unsubstantiated hypothesis #1,723.5(a).

LTM
TK

**************************************************************
From Ric

Okay.  To my mind #1,723.5 (a); Fred ain't dead yet, works better than #1,723.5 (b); Fred's dead when AE pushes on.  If he's already dead she might be too weak to bury him but why doesn't she take the box and bottle along with her?  If, on the other hand, he is merely too weak or sick to continue we have the classic situation that we've all seen in a hundred movies.  She has made him as comfortable as she can.  He has the last of the emergency rations, some birds and a turtle, a little fire, and a bottle of water.  She takes the other survival gear they salvaged from the plane (a canteen, a knife, whatever) and continues on in the hope of finding a source of water, a convenience store, something.  She intends to come back for him, but never does.

Which, of course, raises the obvious question - what became of Amelia?  Was her body ever found?  Or is there another similar site somewhere in Tekibeia district?  Try this one.  After the debacle of Gallagher's adventure with the bones, and his subsequent death, what would the locals have done if they later came upon more bones?  From the time of Gallagher's death in September '41 until Laxton's re-organizational visit in 1949, there is no resident British administrator on the island.  As a matter of fact, from Sept. '41 until November of 1942 there is no record of any official visit to the island. (Officialdom is a bit pre-occupied with the Japanese onslaught elsewhere in the Pacific.)

There's a big hole in the island's history between Gallagher's death and the coming of the Yanks in 1944.  Makes you wonder.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 11:19:25 EDT
From:        J B Mill
Subject:      personnel unfitness

Perhaps when Amelia communicated "personnel unfitness" she confused the spelling of personal and it was she who  was a bit under the weather................

**************************************************************

From Ric

Possible, I suppose, but AE was nothing if not literate.  She could pull an obscure quote from Hamlet out of her head and begin a telegram about being eager to get away from Lae with the phrase "Denmark's a prison."  She was a well-educated woman who was as much writer and poet as she was pilot.  I'd be hesitant to accuse her of a simple spelling error.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 11:27:19 EDT
From:        Bill Leary
Subject:      Bones - speculation

Ric wrote:

> As Ross Perot used to say, "I'm all ears."  Describe, if you would, a scenario
> where one person moves on but leaves his or her shoes behind.  This is an
> island where white folks really, really need their shoes.

I can think of two reasons someone might discard their shoes.

1. The shoes were damaged in some way that made the functionally useless

2. The wearers feet had swollen (sprained ankle?) and they found the shoes no longer fit.

I'm talking general reasons here.

If we assume these are Amelia and Freds shoes, then you might add the additional factor of being very tired (from thirst, from injury, from illness, etc.) and getting perhaps a bit punchy and just not bothering to put them back on after taking them off for some reason.

Here, however, I'm assuming that the "jungle" could be walked upon without shoes even if the beach / reef couldn't be.

    - Bill

***************************************************************

From Ric

Your suggested scenarios are certainly possible, as is Tom King's suggestion that it was a spare pair that got damaged by being left too close to the fire to dry.

But you'd have to be pretty punchy to forget to put on your shoes, even if you planned to stay in the bush.  The only place I'd consider going barefoot on Niku would be out on the sand beach, and then you'd fry your feet.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 11:31:34 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      Noonan frailties

Fred and possible human frailties. He served in the Carribbean, flew to South America, flew to the Far East, visited El Paso/Juarez often. What is the common demonimator?  Heroin or opiates.

 Just a thought.

Ron D. 2126
***************************************************************

From Ric

Jeeeesh.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 11:35:11 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Fish bone

I certainly didn't mean to discourage anyone from getting the fish bone identified if it's not a big hassle.  I can't imagine what it would tell us, but as you've pointed out elsewhere, we really never can be sure.....

LTM
TKing

***************************************************************

From Ric


Aaarrgh!  Okay, Andrew, I think you said you had a possible source of help on this.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 11:43:27 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Re: No Land Club Offensive

Well, let's see if I can respond to Mike's inoffensive comments:

Mike says:  Tom, the point we are trying to make relates to economics.  How much time was spent cutting through 100 feet of scavola?

Answer:  It depended on the nastiness of the scaevola.  It could take anywhere from a couple of minutes in the light stuff we referred to as Level 3, to an hour or more in Level 8.  But in Level 8 you don't just "cut through;" you wind up climbing over, falling through, getting wrapped up in, etc. etc.. Pretty discouraging, particularly since you also can't see anything, and could cut right past an Electra and never notice it.  If videos of us fighting through the stuff make you tired, I'm real sorry, but you can always fast- forward.

Mike asks:  How much labor?

Answer:  Same as above.  It depends.

Mike asks:  And how much of the lagoon could you have covered and why didn't you?

Answer:  Here again, it depends -- in this case on what you mean by "covered." We've "covered" the whole lagoon in terms of reviewing airphotos.  We've "covered" only about two percent in terms of really intensive survey.  We've "covered" some percentage in between in terms of looking, dragging less-than- fully effective mags, poking metal detectors at coral heads to make sure they weren't coral-encrusted engines, and the like.  So?  Why didn't we cover it more, in more detail?  We didn't have the time and technology.  And?

Mike says/asks:  In 1989 TIGHAR declared the plane wasn't on land, yet less than 5% of the lagoon is searched???

Answer:  Uhh -- and the question is?  We did enough study of the island in '89 to pretty well convince ourselves that the plane "wasn't on land" to the extent that means sitting there, fat, dumb and happy, waiting to be found. That doesn't mean big pieces aren't on land; they may very well be, and little pieces are even more likely, to say nothing of the little pieces already found that are very likely to be from the plane.  So what does this have to do with how much of the lagoon we searched?

Mike asks:  Help us understand.

Answer:  I'd be happy to try, if I understood what it is you don't understand. Maybe I'm just demented from all that bashing about in the scaevola, but I don't understand what you're getting at.

Mike says/asks:  Lets say TIGHAR goes back to Niku for 20 days with 20 folks in 1999. (Is that an average trip?)

Answer:  No, it's about 6 people and 6 days long, but we're shooting for more time in '99 and wouldn't be averse to more people if there were a way to fit 'em in.

Mike asks:  Can you search the western part of the lagoon, reef flat, and dig the anecdotal sites in that time frame?

Answer:  As usual, it depends, and every time we go one of our major concerns is how much we can do in the time we've got.  Juggling the logistics becomes a big item, and there are always things we can't predict -- both opportunities that result from unexpected discoveries, and things that screw up the schedule like storms and greater heat than expected and denser Scaevola than expected and equipment failures and on and on and on.

It also depends, once again, on what you mean by "search," and "dig."  There are lots of ways to search, and you can do it at a variety of levels of intensity.  There are a number of ways to dig.  Every choice of method involves trade-offs, both in terms of time required and discovery potential. Generally (though not absolutely), the faster your search, the more cursory it is and the more likely you are to miss something.  Generally (though not absolutely), the cruder your excavation methods, the more likely you are to miss or even destroy something.  We might be able to "dig" Aukaraime from one end to another in a few hours if (a) we were sure where the ends are and (b) we did it with a D-6 Cat, but we'd likely lose a bit of data or two.  We could do it in a week if we knew (a) and for (b) we lined 20 people up and had them sling dirt with flat-bladed shovels for ten hours a day, but we'd likely lose almost as much data as we would with the Cat, and probably a person or two as well.  We could take ten years at it with camel's hair brushes.  Fieldwork is all about making decisions like this -- balancing your data needs with your feasible methods.  So the answer to your question is something on the order of: "Yes, at some as yet unspecified level of detail and reliability, if conditions cooperate."

Mike says:  We noted on your TV program that the scholarly pace of archaeology is abandoned when the team runs out of time and you did not get as much done as you planned.  Unfortunately, "lousy economics"  overrules "good science" most of the time.

Answer:  Are you saying that we just didn't budget properly, and therefore ran out of time and therefore abandoned "good science?"  There's not much I can say to such a statement of opinion; you're obviously free to hold it, and you obviously will.  But let me offer a couple of observations.

Re. "lousy economics:"  Science hasn't yet entirely cured cancer, or AIDS, or even herpes, in substantial part because of "lousy economics."  We keep being distracted by doing silly stuff like fighting wars, and drugs, and taking care of the elderly, and educating our children.  In just the same way, we haven't found Amelia and Fred in part because we haven't had unlimited resources to throw at the problem; everybody has other things they need to spend their money on.  If this is lousy economics, so be it.

As for "good science," I think there are lots of ways to do that, at many different levels of intensity and along many pathways.  And archeology is not necessarily done at a "scholarly pace," if by that you mean "slow."  My dissertation research involved excavating three cemeteries using a bulldozer. It wasn't my preferred way of doing it, but since the Corps of Engineers was about to take them out with much bigger machines and a whole lot less control, it was what I had to do.  Given the kinds of phenomena I was dealing with and the research questions I was asking, I was able to control my machines, and my crew, and the resulting data enough to make some kind of contribution to understanding prehistoric social organization in California.  Was this good science?  I think so.  I formulated a hypothesis and tested it, using methods that were practical in view of the conditions under which I was working. Everyone who does any kind of research makes the same kinds of choices, and the fact that we make them doesn't make our science somehow impure.

When we went to Niku the first time, we had some expectations about the place, and about what we could do, that turned out not to be correct.  We abandoned certain search techniques in the lagoon, and stopped beating our brains out trying to hack transects through the Scaevola, because we observed that these activities weren't likely to produce a return commensurate with the investment we were putting into them.  Maybe that's an example of lousy economics overwhelming good science but I think that to have insisted on keeping doing things that weren't doing us any good would have been simply stupid.

Does this help at all, Mike?

LTM
Tom King
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 11:44:42 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Noonan - booze

Re. Jackie's:  "Some years ago I researched another notorious alleged 'drunk' Kim Philby and the similarities are striking."

Ah ha!  So Fred was really a Soviet spy!  The plot thickens.  Doethn't it?

LTM
TK
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 11:52:04 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Radios: Cables & Connectors

Vern has reviewed a paper (prepared by a TIGHAR member highly experienced in avionics) describing the radio situation aboard the Earhart Electra vis a vis the coax cable found on Niku in 1996.  He offers the following comments:

-------------------------------

A first pass through the radio documentation looking for a place for the cable and connectors (TIGHAR Artifact 2-3-V-1) found at the site of the village on Nikumaroro (Circa 1940).  In summary, no place for it was found.

I had hoped to find a coaxial cable with connectors such as the Howard P. Jones, series 101, used between the Bendix RDF loop and a loop coupler unit mounted somewhere near the loop installation.  The photographs (page 4-29 & page 4-33) do indicate a coaxial type cable but it is not like the cable found by TIGHAR.  This cable appears to be considerably larger in diameter and is described, in the documentation (page 4-34), as an "... ARMORED CABLE (BREEZE)... "  The term "breeze" is not familiar to me in this context.  I think the original picture will probably show that the cable has an exterior metalic braid although this is not clear in the photocopy.  The connectors would be appropriat for an armored cable of this diameter and would not be Jones series 101 connectors.

Clearly, the author of the documentation had been looking at some of the same journals I have been perusing (text on page 4-29, from Aero Digest) and seeing some of the same photographs of Bendix and Western Electric equipment.  The pictures included show the same kind of antenna connections on receivers and on transmitters that I've seen in the journals from the 1930s -- a simple "binding post" type connection.

It is stated, on page 4-3, that a coaxial cable connector might be provided on a transmitter as a factory modification.  As also stated, we see no indication of such a connector in any photograph we have seen.  I have seen none in the journals of the 1930s.

I wonder if, at that time, coaxial cable was considered a viable option at all? I think it would have been only if cable with polyethylene dielectric was available, And then only if a single transmitting frequency was to be used.  Matching a transmitter to a multiband antenna is very tricky.  When the antenna is not an optimal length for any frequency to be used, it's all the worse.  It's always a compromise on both frequencies resulting in power being dissipated in the transmission line.  Even today, coaxial cable is avoided in multi-frequency antenna systems.

In essence, if you are going to use coaxial cable, even good coax, for transmitting any appreciable power, everything in the system has to be almost perfectly tuned.  Otherwise the cable will not take the power that did not get radiated but showed up as heat in the dielectric of the cable.

In conclusion, I have to concede that I can find no place for the TIGHAR cable in the radio installations in Amelia Earhart's Electra.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 12:01:51 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      Interesting bits

Interview in El Paso paper 3Jul37 with Lewis Upshaw : '"field representative with Lockheed Airplane Co.......Upshaw in El Paso in connection with the opening of Continental Airlines, worked as a mechanic on Mrs. Putnam's plane - a Lockheed Electra- just before her flight. Familiar with the structure of the famous flyer's plane, Upshaw said the plane would remain afloat if she landed with the landing gear up. 'Otherwise, the landing gear would have thrown the ship over on its back and both she and Noonan would have drowned', he said. 'No one but an expert flyer could land one of the fast Lockheeds on the water- and then the water would have to be smooth. If she was forced down, it is doubtful  she and Noonan are alive'."

Also, Fred's divorce was granted on March 17 - he apparently did make a second trip to ELP to finalize the divorce but haven't nailed the date yet.

re Amelia; E.P. Herald-Post, 5Jul37: {Col. Thomas Boles, superint. of Carlsbad Caverns National Park, stood on the brink of the "bottomless pit" in his underground fairyland and wondered if he will keep his promise to Amelia Earhart. The pit was to be the noted flyer's next adventure. On her last trip to the caverns Miss Earhart extracted a promise from Col. Boles that she would be the first person to explore the subterranean dungeon. }  The remainder of the article describes the unexplored portions of the caverns. Was she tired of flying and was looking for other adventures?

Ron D. 2126
***************************************************************

From Ric

Good stuff.

Upshaw is right. Gear down ditchings almost always flip the airplane.

The divorce was granted the same day Fred took off for Hawaii with AE, et al. Wonder if he knew? I wonder when he had time to go back to El Paso?

AE seems to have been something of a thrill-seeker.  She once wanted to try deep-sea diving (hard-hat) but got frightened and wouldn't go through with it.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 12:53:05 EDT
From:        Sandy Campbell
Subject:      Noonan - dehydration

> The castaway(s) of Gardner island had sufficient energy to get to Aukaraime
> from somewhere else on the island, kill birds and a turtle, build a campfire,
> etc.  That does not, to me, sound like someone pagued by dysentery or the DTs.

I wasn't there. I don't know.. But from what I can gather, I personally find it quite difficult to see Fred as a raging alcoholic, nor to see Amelia embarking on a lengthy flight with a case of dysentery.  In any case, the survival instinct is a powerful force...

Sandy

***************************************************************

From Ric

I agree with you Sandy but I think we need to recognize that "raging alcoholic" does not necessarily describe everyone who struggles with an addiction to alcohol.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 12:54:56 EDT
From:        Sandy Campbell
Subject:      Re: The British Connection

> Of course, the book is un-indexed and un-footnoted, so unless you're ready to
> double-check everything yourself, the only way to deal with Donahue is to not
> believe any of it.

Yes.., And good fiction always sells copy.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 12:56:37 EDT
From:        Don Jordan
Subject:      Noonan research

Rose sounded very confused this time when I talked to her.  She almost sounded sick.  But the first time we spoke, she was lively and chipper. I think she might be confusing the husbands!  So much information has come out about FN in the last few months.

I will let you know as soon as I can about my project.  About May 15th,  I hope!!!!!

Don Jordan
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 13:01:05 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Radios

>Do we have everything it's possible to get
>from Western Electric and Bendix on radio gear that MIGHT have been on the
>Electra?  Of course, I'm wishing for information on connectors used, etc.
>I'm sure I can dig up information

UNFORTUNATELY --NO. I'M TRYING TO DETERMINE WHERE BENDIX ARCHIVES MIGHT BE LOCATED ANY HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED.  OTHERWISDE VISIT OLD BOOKSHOPS TO SEE WHAT THEY HAVE ON AVRAD. I'VE BEEN PLEASANTLY SURPRISED.  SEE MY READING LIST AND BIBLIO. I'LL E-MAIL A COPY IF YOU'RE REALLY INTERESTED AND NOT JUST UNWILLING TO LOOK FOR YOURSELF!!!!!!!!

***************************************************************

From Ric

Dick's getting better.  He made almost to the end without getting nasty.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 13:03:55 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Re: Canton Engine Logic

NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR ABOUT THE B-25 THAT CRACKED UP ON T/O AT CANTON DURING THE "UNPLEASANTNESS"

-- DICK

**************************************************************

From Ric

I'm happy to hear about it.  I just haven't seen any documentation that it happened and I don't understand what difference it makes if it did.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 13:31:25 EDT
From:        Clyde Miller
Subject:      Foliage clearing

This is probably addressed more for Tom King as resident Archeologist. What additional methods of foliage clearing are considered in a dig such as Niku?  Is the concept of a Slow controlled burn possible  or acceptable as a technique given the environment and what you are looking for? Is it too brutal a technique?  (The Little Big horn Battlefield fire a few years ago yielded tremendous archeological finds after clearing the prairie).  Are any chemical options acceptable?  Are you carrying a small chain saw?  Would a  major clearing of the bush buy you anything?

(and now let me go off the deep end....can animals  (i.e. dogs) detect things such as graves or decomposed bodies, bones etc. several decades old?  (I won't even speculate on having one of the navy dolphins check out the lagoon)

Just curious?


Clyde Miller
***************************************************************

From Ric

I can offer some comments on this subject.  I, for one, would not be eager to get a  brush fire going on that island even if it were archaeologically advisable (which it ain't) or approved by the Kiribati authorities (I shudder to think).  Agent Orange is also not an option.

A chain saw with a short bar has proven to be a rather effective weapon for clearing trails through the worst of the Scaevola, but that's road building, not archaeology.  For searching, nothing is less invasive than bare hands aided by a sharp machete.  You're forced to go slowly and look closely at what you're clearing.  Of course, it's also hard work with the constant danger of laceration. (Right Tom?)
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 13:34:14 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      When Mary met Harry

The SF Chronicle June 24 1938.

Jackie

**************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 13:37:22 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Canton B-25 crash

I'd like to hear about it.

Jackie Ferrari
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 13:39:38 EDT
From:        Jim Tierney
Subject:      Re; reply to No Land Club Offensive

I dont know or care what Mike thinks but your explanation certainly gave me a much better picture of what is done and how and why.

You guys really work your asses off. There cant be too much prancing around and singing--"Finding Amelia".

Thanks for the good word pictures.
Jim Tierney
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 1 May 1998 16:45:46 EDT
From:        Amanda Dunham
Subject:      About Scaevola

jbmill wrote:
>Perhaps when Amelia communicated "personnel unfitness" she confused the
>spelling of personal and it was she who was a bit under the
>weather................
>**************************************************************
>From Ric
>Possible, I suppose, but AE was nothing if not literate.  She could pull an
>obscure quote from Hamlet out of her head and begin a telegram about being
>eager to get away from Lae with the phrase "Denmark's a prison."  She was a
>well-educated woman who was as much writer and poet as she was pilot.  I'd be
>hesitant to accuse her of a simple spelling error.

Absolutely!  Another interpretation of that message is that by "personnel" she meant some member of the ground crew.  My humble opinion is that "personnel unfitness" wasn't anything serious - Amelia would have been more specific if it had been.

(Just out of curiosity, having never sent a telegram, how many people were involved in transmission?  Was there a typist at both sending and receiving able to add their own mistakes to your composition?)

And what is scavola or scaevola???  Niether is in my dictionary.  Sounds itchy and contagious! :-)  Please keep in mind that for some of us, knowledge of desert island environments extends only as far as seven castaways and the S.S. Minnow.  Feel free to explain, Professor.

LOVE TO MOTHER STOP
Amanda
*************************************************************

From Ric

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale,
A tale of fateful trip....

The complete text of the message sent from Lae at 0630 on June 30 is as follows:

RADIO MISUNDERSTANDING AND PERSONNEL UNFITNESS PROBABLY WILL HOLD ONE DAY HAVE ASKED BLACK FOR FORECAST FOR TOMORROW YOU CHECK METEOROLOGIST ON JOB AS FN MUST HAVE STAR SIGHTS STOP ARRANGE CREDIT IF TRIBUNE WISHES MORE STORY

My understanding is that you gave the operator your handwritten message and he sent it out in morse code.  At the receiving end the message was typed out for the recipient.  (We have a copy of the original Western Union form for this message.) Anybody out there know for sure?  We're talking Territory of New Guinea here, circa 1937.

Scaevola is the Latin name for a plant the Gilbertese call Te Mao (note the use of the definite article Te).  We often refer to it by other names which have a distinct Oedipal tone.

Its broad, bright green leaves are quite attractive and the gently curving, broomstick-thickness stalks upon which they grow are soft, pithy, and easily cut for the first foot or so below the leaves.  But then the stalk grows progressively tougher, and the profusion of stalks more tangled and snakelike until, at ground level they are like iron bars.  A stand of Scaevola presents an impenetrable wall of intertwined stalks, at once resilient and resistant, a petrified Gorgon's head, too thick to crawl under or even see through, and yet not strong enough to climb upon without breaking through and hanging up like a fly in a spiders web.

And you thought you wanted to know.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 09:41:37 EDT
From:        Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Personal/Personnel

The Personnel Unfitness telegram we have is the one received at Oakland, CA by Western Union.  Based upon my non-quantitative evaluation of Navy and commercial messages from 1935 - 1939, many mispellings can arise from the telegraph operators who relay the messages, typically at least one misspelling per 100 telegrams (from originator to receiver sets).  While we cannot determine how many radiomen handled this message, previous messages and indications suggest at least four between Lae and Oakland.  I would suspect, but cannot prove, that a good hunch might be that personal got translated to personnel.  This is a good example of the kinds of minor historical mysteries that can never be solved with certainty.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 10:02:18 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Maybe Land Club

Tom/John:

Thanks for the details.  The descriptions both of you responded with are very informative.  I have a much better understanding of what you are up against.

Hopefully, the photographic evidence can help target your efforts.

It seems possible based on your descriptions that the aircraft still could be on the island.

I noted somewhere Oceaneering had the resolution to pick up an intact aircraft, but not one broken up. Is that correct?

Did TIGHAR issue any press releases upon discovery of the Gallagher telegrams?  Any press coverage of that, they are a very important find.

I also keep reading about Ballard at Midway.  Ric, you mentioned Ballard once but I forgot what you said. What about National Geographic sponsorship?

LTM,

Mike

****************************************************************

From Ric

We issued a press release about the Gallagher telegrams but nobody picked up on it.  Basic media problem.  What is and is not regarded as newsworthy depends primarily upon what else happens to be going on in the world at the moment.

Ballard seems to be making quite a career out of finding stuff that was never lost.  We have a much tougher job.  National Geo is well aware of our project and, over the years, we've had a number of discussions with them about sponsorship. It comes down to this. We're not willing to sell what they want to buy for a price they're willing to pay.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 10:05:18 EDT
From:        Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Mary B and husbands

I tracked down the engagement announcements (thanks to Jackie) for Mary Beatrice Noonan and Harry B Ireland in the SF Bay area. Articles in the Oakland Tribune (6/23/38) and SF Chronicle (6/24) - the Chron was always a few days behind a lot of the AE/FN news because they flew out of, and stayed/lived, in Oakland.

The scenario goes like this. Bea filed for executorship of the estate on June 10, 1938. It was granted on June 20 after a Superior Court hearing that same day. She was living in Santa Barbara at the time. Her attorney was in Oakland. Three days later, the Trib announced her engagement. Bea had recently sold her beauty salon and Ireland was in Oakland making final plans for the wedding which was to take place "very soon". Ireland was a "wealthy" widower living in Santa Barbara, retired for 12 years from a Philadelphia stock broker business (given the times, he must have been damn good). They met on the liner Lurline returning from Honolulu "some months ago".

Separately, a SF Chron article from March 30, 1937 about the Fred/Mary Bea marriage (thanks to Jackie again) states that, "Noonan met Mrs. Martinelli in Oakland while he was employed on the Pan American Airways' trans-pacific service."

Blue skies, jham #2128
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 10:07:58 EDT
From:        Bill
Subject:      Bones- speculation

Ric wrote;

> Your suggested scenarios are certainly possible, as is Tom King's
>suggestion that it was a spare pair that got damaged by being left too close
>to the fire to dry.
>
> But you'd have to be pretty punchy to forget to put on your shoes, even if
> you planned to stay in the bush.  The only place I'd consider going barefoot
> on Niku would be out on the sand beach, and then you'd fry your feet.

Actually, I was more thinking of a person or persons who were just going to "take a look over there" and didn't make it back or got "there" and decided it wasn't worth the effort to go back for them.

    - Bill
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 10:09:54 EDT
From:        Craig Fuller
Subject:      Canton Engine Logic

To: Dick Strippel

I would be interested to know the date of the B-25 crash on Canton (if you know it) but I agree with Ric in that it makes no difference. Even if it can be proved that an aircraft with a single row radial crashed on Canton all that it  would mean is that when TIGHAR digs up a single row radial engine at Canton it may or may not be the one that Bruce brought back. If the serial numbers on the engine match Earhart's then it is probably the one that Bruce brought to Canton (or Earhart crashed on Canton and no one ever noticed). If the serial number does not match Earhart's then the engine dug up might be from the single row radial aircraft that crashed on Canton (which none are known of) or it could be the one that Bruce brought there. Which would put TIGHAR in the dilemma to keep digging or give up on Bruce's engine. The fact that we know where Bruce's engine is buried should minimize the chance of coming across the wrong engine if by chance any others are buried there.

Bruce:

Do you recall ever seeing any twin row radials in the junk yard when you were at Canton?

Craig Fuller
Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research

=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 10:15:54 EDT
From:        Don Jordan
Subject:      unfitness

There is a lot of conversation about the message of "unfitness".  I know there are days when I just don't want to get out of bed and go to work.  Not sick...just don't feel like it.

Maybe that is what the message is referring to.  However, did either Amelia or Fred had any long term illnesses like headaches or toothaches, or bad back that might explain the message?

Don Jordan (#2109)
*************************************************************

From Ric

AE had a history of sinus trouble, but there's no reference to that being a problem during the world flight.

Seems most likley to me that whether it was personnel or personal unfitness, she was simply referring to the fact they had been pushing hard for several days and wanted to rest for a day or so before tackling the most difficult leg of the entire trip.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 10:27:25 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Amelia's kids

Speaking of interesting bits, I feel compelled to tell the group that this week at one of the two elementary schools at which I am a music teacher, I discovered no less than three different students of grades three through six,each reading a different book about the life and accomplishments of none other than Amelia Earhart! While this may seem trivial, I thought that you might be as delighted as I was to discover that today's young people are still profoundly interested in this person, who vanished before even their parents (and some of their grandparents) were born! Given all the "Titanic" hype these days, I found this to be a notable, and refreshing, change. Your work will obviously continue to be appreciated by the adults of the future!--Thanks for your indulgence,--Gene Dangelo  :)
**************************************************************

From Ric

Middle-schoolers are Amelia's most ardent supporters.  Hardly a week goes by that we don't receive a request to help with a school project.  The next issue of TIGHAR Tracks will contain a selection of delightful letters and poems from kids who are enthralled with Earhart and the mystery.  On May 29th I'm doing "An Evening With Amelia Earhart" for a  middle-school in southeastern Pennsylvania (no, I'm not going in drag).  Mrs. Norris' fourth-grade class dreamed up the idea as a fund-raiser for The Earhart Project and asked if I'd come. Eat your heart out Leonardo.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 11:00:13 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Campfire site(s)?

Gallagher says, "Bones were found on South East corner of island..." (TIGHAR Tracks, Sept. 30, 1997, Page 24).  Page 27 map indicates location of the spot where TIGHAR found the shoes and campfire -- Sort of the South West side of the island not far from Baurareke Passage.  Can you clarify?

***************************************************************

From Ric

Yes.  The big question is whether Gallagher's site is the same as TIGHAR's site.  Let's look at all the clues.

Gallagher describes the location several ways.  He says, as you note, that it was "on South East corner of island"(telegram 17 October 1940).  In his December 27, 1940 letter to the Secertary of the Western Pacific High Commission he describes the site as "on the South Eastern shore of Gardner Island."  He also says that the intial discovery was made by "workers" (telegram 23 september 1940)  but that "this part of island is not yet cleared" (telegram 17 October 1940).

From this description it seems clear that the site is somewhere along the southeastern shore in an area that was being cleared in 1940.  Aerial photography taken June 20,1941 clearly shows an area just east of Bauareke Passage which appears freshly cleared.  Aerial photography taken April 30, 1939 shows the same area untouched.  No further clearing was done in Aukaraime district until the Coast Guard went at the extreme southeastern tip with bulldozers in July of 1944.  In short, the ONLY place on the island that fits Gallagher's description is the area just east of Bauareke Passage.

But what about the specific spot?  Gallagher says that it is "about 100 feet above ordinary high water springs." (He is referring here to the the high "spring" tides that sometimes flood the lagoon shore.  His point is that this stuff did not wash ashore.)  The place where TIGHAR found the shoes and campfire fits that description.  Confirmation that the bones were discovered near the lagoon shore is found in Gallagher's comment (letter of 27 December 1940) that the coffin in which he placed the bones was built "from a local wood known as 'kanawa' and the tree was, until a year ago, growing on the edge of the lagoon, not very far from where the deceased was found."

Given that the generalities and specifics of the location described by Galagher fit the place where TIGHAR found some of the same features he found (woman's shoe parts and campfire), I feel pretty comfortable in concluding that we have the same place.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 11:17:24 EDT
From:        Tom  King
Subject:      Re: foliage clearing

Right, Ric.  I don't know if you (Ric) were around the evening several of us (including some of the ecology experts on Nai'a's crew) speculated about burning the island, but we did, and there was general agreement that it would probably be healthy for the ecosystem, but damaging in the short run and nobody was about to propose it formally.  There'd certainly be a lot of death and destruction, and nobody had the stomach for that.  Moreover, there'd be damage to perishable objects -- not only those relevant to AE (if any) but to the remains of the village, which is a pretty neat historic archeological site in its own right.

Of course, a slow prescribed burn of Aukaraime is another matter -- much more acceptable on environmental and archeological grounds -- but I'd still be concerned about what we'd lose that we might want to find.  If nothing else, it would make it difficult to find any additional evidence of the campfire, or other such features.  I'm also not sure whether it would do much good.  What litters the ground are leaves, coconut fronds, and coconuts.  The leaves would burn off pretty well, but the fronds are quite dense at their bases; they burn well in a campfire, but I doubt if they'd burn away completely in a pass-over kind of burn.  Coconut husks have more or less the same kind of characteristics.  And, of course, we'd then have ash and charred stuff to worry about -- no easier to pick up than the leaves and fronds.

Oddly enough (must be psychic, Clyde), I was thinking last night about bone- sniffing dogs or other critters, and came to the conclusion that it might be worth at least asking about.  I can't imagine an animal with a nose keen enough to tell a 60-year-old bone from coral and coco fronds, but I don't know beans about the subject.  Any animal-tracker experts out there?  I wonder if we could train crabs.  Probably not.

I'd love to find some faster way to clear the foliage -- both on Aukaraime where the problem is to see the ground, and elsewhere where it's just to get through -- but hands, machetes and chainsaws thus far remain the weapons of choice.  Though I would remind you, Ric, of Gary Quigg's lament, to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain:"

"As I crawl around the island,
It's not that I'm not smilin'
I've learned to love the pain.

I just can't help but wonder,
Of all the things we've strewn asunder,
Why we didn't bring a rake.

LTM
TK
***************************************************************

From Ric

Yeah.  Sure would be a shame to burn up that diary AE was keeping.

We actually looked into the bone-sniffing dog thing a few years ago.  We had used search dogs in Maine looking for the possible remains of Nungesser and Coli.  Didn't find any bones but the dogs were a hoot to work with.  The consensus among the dog people was that the environment on the island would be so foreign to the dogs that there was no telling what they'd do.  There was also some concern about the effects of a long sea voyage on poochs who were not sea-dogs (heck, we KNOW what the effects are on people who are not sea- dogs).  Trained crabs, however, are worth a thought.  I remember Tonga (our Kiribati rep) walking a big ol' coconut crab on a leash along the beach.  We could at least tell the TV film crew that we had bone-sniffing crabs.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 11:25:41 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Re: reply to No Land Club Offensive

Thanks, Jim.  Actually we really do have a good deal of time for singing, but it's mostly in the evenings when everybody's sick to death of bashing about in the jungle or bouncing off coral heads in the lagoon.  And the lyrics come unbidden to the brain, probably the result of oxygen deprivation or something.

LTM
TKing
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 2 May 1998 11:28:22 EDT
From:        JB Mill
Subject:      Re: Amelia's kids

As an active member of a local Zonta International Club who gives thousands in scholarships in her name every year (Amelia was a current member when she left on her last flight), I am also aware of the interest of kids and it's wonderful to hear how interested they continue to be....it's great that TIGHAR is helping with this.  We purchased the "mock-up" of the Electra created by CNN (for the movie with Diane Keaton) and it is in a local Air Museum. We are working (providing funding) with the museum to expand on the exhibit to the point where it will be "interactive" allowing kids to sit in the cockpit and hear the messages from the Itasca, etc........thanks Ric for the reminder that she was an extremely literate individual....
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 08:23:38 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Unfitness

Fred had supposedly cracked four front teeth during a fall in a hotel bathroom in Hawaii and was receiving dental treatment for that.Unsubstantiated.  One of the Amelia biographies I think.

Jackie
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 08:25:10 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Mary B and husbands

Wow! Seems like Mary Bea moved pretty fast! The thing that puzzles me, and this may be an idiosyncrasy of the estate laws of that state, but, doesn't someone have to be missing for a seven-year period before they can be declared legally dead? In Pennsylvania, at least, that was the case in 1937. The reason that I know this is that my late great-uncle's wife vanished (deserted the family) in December, 1937, and my uncle was not allowed to remarry until 1944, after the seven-year period, at which time the spouse was declared "legally dead." (Amazingly, after the declaration, she turned up in another state with a different husband!) But anyway, I was curious. Perhaps any J.D.'s in forum could help me out on that one!--Many thanks,--Gene Dangelo :)
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 08:27:33 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Southeast is southeast and...

Re. Gallagher's description of the bones site being on the southeast end of the island -- that's troubled me, too, but Ric's point about the land clearing is pretty convincing.  I suspect that it's a matter of perspective.  We're used to looking at Niku on a map; in this context Aukaraime is a good distance from the SE end.  But Gallagher was used to looking at it on the ground and from the water, and to thinking about it largely in terms of its coconut potential.  It isn't far east of Aukaraime that the place becomes pretty much a wasteland of sun-blasted coral, and quite narrow to boot -- no place for coconuts.  I'd guess (as usual, ONLY a guess) that Gallagher was thinking of the island more or less like New Yorkers think of the United States, only in his case there was no California on the other end.

In any event, the real geographic southeast end of the island is where the Coast Guard did its thing, so if there had been anything there (a) one might expect them to have seen it (or might not), and (b) it's certainly not there any more.

If I had to guess at probabilities, I'd give Aukaraime at least a 75% chance of being Gallagher's bone site.  That and a buck fifty will buy you a short coffee around here.

Tom King
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 08:29:17 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Re; Amelia's kids

Thanks for that very heartening story.

Ive often wondered just how interested people are over there.  At a school I teach in from time to time I sometimes mention Amelia. The only kid I ever come across who had ever heard of her was a Treckie who had seen the Voyager episode and who remarked about that 'funny guy' waving the bottle about.

The adults are not much better. I have yet to meet anyone who has heard of Fred Noonan.  As far as female aviators go they are more familiar with Amy Johnson.

Jackie
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 08:31:24 EDT
From:        Russ Matthews
Subject:      Re: Amelia's kids

This past December I spoke to a group of Third and Fourth graders at an all girls school in NYC.  Their undisguised enthusiasm and insightful questions were a very pleasant surprise.  I have also spoken to a number of "grown-up" organizations, including the Los Angeles Chapter of Zonta, but the kids make it seem more meaningful somehow.

  As we have seen from this Forum, a major goal of the Earhart Project is education.  I know that many other expedition members have made themselves available for talks around the country.

  Interesting about the "mock-up" from the TNT film.  I saw the Beech 18 they used for the flight scenes and what was left of the one that stood in for the Luke Field crash.  Which museum has the interior set?  An interactive exhibit sounds promising, though I suppose to make it truly accurate the kids wouldn't be able to hear anything from the Itasca at all.

  LTM
  Russ
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 08:43:31 EDT
From:        Don Neumann
Subject:      Re: Amelia's kids

One of the things that has "wondered" me, why hasn't one of the national/international women's groups ever sought to sponsor research into the "search for Amelia"?   If ever there was a role model (though somewhat conservative by today's standards) for modern day feminists, Amelia Earhart was that person, truly a "renaissance woman", if ever there was anyone who could occupy that role!     Perhaps the reason she still occupies the interest of so many people is the very mystery surrounding her disappearance over sixty years ago & of course that one very beguiling photograph (the one with the Mona Lisa smile) , which seems to be saying: "find me if you can"!

*************************************************************

From Ric

Public opinion seems quite divided on the question of what to do about the Earhart disappearance.  Some feel that the "mystery" gets in the way of truly appreciating Amelia's contibution to ...(pick your agenda).  Others feel that the puzzle is the appeal and should be left unsolved.  Still others feel that all of us who wonder what happened to Amelia Earhart should get a life.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 08:46:14 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      Amateur radio operators

Amongst the many ham operator reports, real or hoax, do you recall one from a W.E. Tippin?

Ron D.
2126
***************************************************************

From Ric

Doesn't ring a bell.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 09:04:23 EDT
From:        Roger Kelley
Subject:      Re: Amelia's kids

Would it be possible to tape your presentation of "An evening with Amelia Earhart?"

Come to think about it, does TIGHAR offer a library from which we can purchase various items such as tapes, writings, etc, etc about Amelia and her history?

Thanks,
Roger Kelley
#2112

****************************************************************

From Ric

I don't know if they're planning to videotape it, but it should be no problem.

Our biggest problem with producing and marketing a library of printed, audio and video materials has been one of economics.  We have tons of information, but reproducing and editing and packaging it in a marketable format is so expensive that we would have to charge an exorbitant price that too few would be able or willing to pay.  Hope, however, is on the horizon.

Plans are now in the works with a major corporation to digitize this mountain of information (official reports, documents, letters, photos, film, etc.) for the production of an Amelia Earhart Research CD-ROM.  The same information would also be available piece-meal via TIGHAR's website.  By removing the costs of printing and handling and mailing, we will be able to make all this information available at very little cost.  We're quite excited about this. We should have more details for everyone soon.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 09:05:42 EDT
From:        John Clauss
Subject:      Canton Engine Logic

There have been number of crashes on Canton.  These are reasonable given the volume of traffic that went through there during and after WWII.  They also have little bearing on Bruce's engine.  His engine should be readily identifiable and if it is from AE's  10E, then that should be able to be confirmed by serial numbered parts.

We do pay attention to reports of other planes that went down on the island.  So far we know of a PBY, a Connie and now possibly a B-25.  I am sure there are a number of others.

John Clauss
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 09:08:28 EDT
From:        John Clauss
Subject:      Maybe Land Club, sidescan sonar

Sidescan sonar is an interesting and productive technology.   If you have the appropriate equipment you must be willing to spend whatever time it takes to search an area at a high enough resolution to get results. Oceaneering had the equipment to identify objects smaller than an intact plane.  In order to do this you have to run the fish much closer to the bottom, which scans a smaller area, and run tighter transects.  Then when there are possible hits, they must be investigated with divers or an ROV (remotely operated vehicle).  Searching a reef that slopes down at about a sixty degree angle is another touchy operation.  The closer you run to the bottom the higher the chance that the fish (scanning device) will impact the bottom and be lost.  As it was we hit bottom a couple times and lost one fish (@ $6,000 a copy).  This all comes back to the discussion of time and money.  If you have the money and the time you can find whatever is there.  The fellow that ran the search for us had several months before located the cargo door that blew  off the United 747 out of Hawaii.

We were only on site for a little over two weeks and as a consequence could only search at a resolution that would identify a pretty much intact airplane.  The search was conducted from a depth of 200' to about 2000' around the perimeter of the island.  Transects overlapped by half and scanned an area about a hundred yards wide (if memory serves me right). Transects spaced tighter and higher a resolution would have yielded more data and given us a better shot at smaller items.  There wasn't the money or time.

Hope that answers your question.

John Clauss
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 09:15:26 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Starting fires/ sun angles

The sun came out in the middle of the day, and I got a fire started!  But it was not with a lens from an eyepiece.  I had to use an objective lens.

These lenses are from binoculars that had been dropped -- dented and busted up internally, but none of the lenses and prisms were actually broken.  I think I paid a dollar at a garage sale.

For the fire-starting experiment, I had a chemist's type laboratory stand with clamps to hold lenses and a piece of wood I could position at the focus.  Sure beats holding things by hand! I played with it from about 12:30 to 1:30.  Since we did the "spring ahead" thing and are now on Funny Time, 1 PM is solar noon.

No luck at all with a complete eyepiece.  In the mounting, the aperture is about 3/8 inch.  The best focus is very close to the lens.  A tiny, bright spot but even close to making anything smoke, or produce a scorch mark after 10 minutes.

The eyepiece contains three lenses, one in a single plano-convex lens (flat on one side, convex on other).  The other two are compound lens made up of two parts cemented together.  Out of the mounting, they're each about 5/8" in diameter.

The only one that would approach scorching anything was the single lens which has a focal length of about 1-1/2 inches. It would not make a scorch mark on a piece of paper but it would, with time, scorch the wood piece.  After a period of about 20 minutes, it produced a black, charred mark about 1/32" wide and 1/8" long as the focused spot moved with the motion of the sun. I could see no smoke.  I don't think it would ever start a fire.

The objective lens has a focal length of about 8 inches and is 2 inches in diameter.  Remember that area increases with the square of the diameter.  The wood piece was smoking by the time I had got the lens positioned to produce the most intense spot.  It took some patience but I was able to get paper to first char, then actually flame.  I repeated it several times.

By the time I quit playing with fire, there was a charred hole in the piece of wood about 1/4" in diameter and 3/8" deep.  At times there was a glowing spot in the carbonized wood but it could not be sustained long.  There was never any tendency to flame.

The castaways may have tried to start a fire with an eyepiece, or with lenses from an eyepiece, but I think they would have had little success.  They would probably have got around to trying the objective lens and that might have worked.

Some thoughts about sun angles:

Figuring an angle for starting a fire...

My location is essentially at 40 degrees North Latitude.  We are about seven weeks away from the Summer Solstice (1st day of Summer) when the sun will be at 23-1/2 degrees North Latitude, apparent position, of course.  That's where the Sun will be directly overhead at noon.  I'm 16-1/2 degrees further north. it's not yet the solstice, so lets say I'm 20 degrees further north than where the Sun is directly overhead at noon on this date.

Niku is at about 5 degrees South Latitude.  The castaways arrived in early July, about two weeks past the solstice.  For them, it was the winter solstice.  The Sun is about as far north as it will be -- early winter for them!  The solstice is past, so the Sun is heading back south again.  The Sun is something less than 23-1/2 degrees north of the equator.  Again, let's say it's 20 degrees north.  Niku is 5 degrees south of the equator.  So, Niku was 25 degrees further south than where the Sun is directly overhead at noon on that date.

I'm 20 degrees north of the Sun, the castaways were 25 degrees south of the Sun.  I've not calculated rigorously, but I think we can say the conditions are similar, give or take a few degrees.

Unless I've gone badly astray, the angle of the Sun was at least as favorable for me today as it was for the castaways at the time they arrived on Niku.  I think it's a meaningful experiment. Yes, it was a lot hotter on NIku but not because the Sun was more nearly overhead at the time.  It's hot because the Sun spends a lot more time more nearly overhead than it ever is here at my location.  It's the average temperature that kills you on Niku and in the tropics in general.  It just never cools off!
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 09:18:04 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Sextant eyepieces

I'm still trying to be sure what an inverting eyepiece is with reference to a sextant.  I guess I know, but I still don't know why it would be preferred for aeronautical use.  Looking in some of the easier places first and hoping for a nice, simple answer, I went to the encyclopedias again.  This time going for older editions.  The Britannica of the 40s was no help with regard to inverting eyepieces.

So, back to the 11th edition (1911).  A librarian once remarked that it had gone downhill ever since that edition.  I think he was right.  I'm sure there are more entries in the later editions but the content becomes increasingly superficial.  I found more information but not a lot more...

"Telescopes are of two kinds:  The direct for the more ordinary observations; and the inverting for astronomical work, one of the eyepieces of which should be of high magnifying power, not less than 15 diameters."

I think the implication may be that it is easier to come by high magnification with the kind of optical arrangement that results in an inverted image.  For astronomical work, it doesn't matter much whether the image is inverted or not. I guess the high magnification allows greater precision when superimposing star images in the field of view.

From here, I guess I have to got to the books on navigation and plow through a lot of stuff I really didn't want to know that much about looking for references to inverting eyepieces in aeronautical applications!
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 09:21:23 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Amelia's kids

I was talking with my 18-year old son and his girlfriend recently, and the subject of the Amelia search came up.  The girl looked puzzled.

"But," she asked, "isn't she dead?"

"Most likely," I replied.

"So..... what's the point in finding her?"

The spirit of inquiry runs shallow.

LTM
TKing
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 3 May 1998 09:35:39 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Re: Starting fires/ sun angles

Vern -- Neat experiment.  What kind of wood did you use?  We 1997 castaways on Niku found that we had no trouble at all getting fires started with the abundant dry wood, palm fronds, coconut husks, etc.  Of course there are lots more of the latter now than there were in '37, but still, I don't think tinder would have been a problem.  To replicate what they had to work with, you might try dry leaves and twigs.  Unless you happen to have a few pieces of Pisonia grandis lying around.

Love to Mother

Tom King
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 08:48:52 EDT
From:        Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Sextant eyepieces

Vern wrote....ref:- lenses, telescopes etc.

>I think the implication may be that it is easier to come by high
>magnification with the kind of optical arrangement that results in an
>inverted image.  For astronomical work, it doesn't matter much whether the
>image is inverted or not. I guess the high magnification allows greater
>precision when superimposing star images in the field of view.

I seem to remember that  - having had a telescope as a kid - that simple 2 lens telescopes naturally produce an inverted image, and that for "normal terrestrial" usage (i.e. peeping toms etc <g>) you have to add extra lens(es) to produce an image the right way up.

These optical conponents (lenses, mirrors etc.) are never 100% effiecient - there's always some light loss in each component and in astronomical telescopes, the quality of the image obviously (using the minimum no. of lenses) has priority over the orientation.

To David Kelly "down under"....
Do astronomical telescopes produce images the correct way up down under then <g> ??.   No correction required :-).  From an ignorant pomme.

LTM
Simon
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 08:58:55 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      amateur radio operator

Here's another amateur radio operator to add to the list, if not previously reported.

Article from El Paso Times, 7 Jul 37 (Wed.) AE is "on land" somewhere near Howland Island in the South Pacific, according to a carrier wave message received by W.E. Tippin, Upper Valley amateir radio operator, between 8:30 and 8:40 p.m. Tuesday.

[note: if I calculate correctly, deduct 7 hrs. from Mountain time to get Gardner time.]

Tippin, who operates station W5FSQ, said the Colomba Broadcasting Co. Monday night had sent out a world-wide message, hoping it would be picked up by Miss Earhart. The message told her to send radio carrier wave signals twice to indicate she was on land and three times if she were on water. Tuesday night, Tippin said he distinctly heard the double carrier wave signal flashed at intervals for ten minutes. The frequency of the signals was 3105 KC, the same as that of Miss Earhart. The reason carrier wave signals were designated, Tippin explained, rather than the transmission of voice, was because such signals conserve power. Tippin added that he had his receiving set tuned to the Earhart frequency of 3105 KC and that on that account he attributed the signals he heard to her. Tippin said he heard the Columbia broadcast from Honolulu Monday night on a short wave frequency of 12,000 KC. The messages were being broadcast at the same time from Columbia's New York station, but his reception at the time from Honolulu was better.] Note: this is the morning paper. A short article in the Wed. PM paper, the Herald Post, stated that at about midnight Tuesday "I heard a woman's voice on Miss Earharts frequency. The signals were not strong enough to read. They came a half minute at a time over a period of ten minutes. I have unusually good reception on my station because it is in the upper valley away from electric signs and street cars".

Oddly enough, I found Mr. Tippin's son on the first try. He related that he remembered his dad being excited about the event but doesn't think he reported to anyone other than the paper. I asked if he might still have the radio logs and he stated he would ask his sister. The gentleman was quite friendly and appeared to be  genuinely interested in helping. Of course, it is prudent to remember that that wackos also existed in 1937 and someone could have been sending false signals on the same freq.

Ron D. 2126

***************************************************************

From Ric

Tippin's experience was similar to Pan Am's and the Navy's regarding the two-if-on-land, three-if-on-water test.  Interesting.
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 09:00:31 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Maybe Land Club: sidescan sonar

Thanks.    Must be tough to experience the disappointment real time. Sailing all that distance, spending the time, money & lugging all that equipment, for (to borrow Ric's expression), zippo.

LTM,
Mike
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 09:07:49 EDT
From:        Don Neumann
Subject:      The forum and the project

In my case the feelings are mixed, however the  appeal of the puzzle & the hope that someday, someone will really follow through in completing a thorough investigation of the matter, which up until the foundation of the earhart forum, has never been accomplished.

All of the many books & articles I've read, over the years, fall far short of truly examining all of the issues involved & in the final analysis, the authors seem to lose their original interest in the case & draw conclusions (some pretty bizarre) which cannot be supported by the facts they've supposedly developed themselves.

The one single factor that sets the "forum" apart from all the others is the sheer, dogged persistence in pursuit of the goal (finding the remains of the plane &/or crew) , inspite of all the popular resistance by press & public alike!

**************************************************************

From Ric

Just to be clear:

The Earhart Search Forum (this email list) was only begun a few months ago as a way of making participation in TIGHAR's Earhart Project more accessible to the public and to encourage membership in TIGHAR.  It has become a powerful research tool in its own right but it is founded upon ten years of dedicated scientific investigation by the researchers and expedition team members of TIGHAR.
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 09:13:03 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Scaevola growth rate

Any idea how quickly scaevola grows?  If the plane was parked far enough under a tree to avoid aerial detection by Lambrecht, could scaevola significantly cover the plane (well enough to avoid casual observation) by Dec 38/Jan 39, when traffic picked up on Niku?

LTM,
Mike
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 09:15:40 EDT
From:        Patricia Youn
Subject:      Amelia's kids

I can attest to Amelia's popularity with not only elem ed kids but with college students as well.

The interest in my Women's Studies course just mushroomed when I built a segment into the course about A.E.  I got so many students, men and women, young and old, that I could not accommodate everyone.

She had so many qualities that students like, but they were particularly taken with her quiet demeanor and fascinated with the variety of things she pursued - such as fashion and speaking to college students at Purdue.

The class told me about an article in Natl Geo about her last month - some of the pictures in the article were new to me.  They also found full page ads in Newsweek and Time that had full page pictures of A.E., one paid for by Apple, the other by TWA.  Several of the ads were on the back covers.

Anyhow, thanks for this forum.  No one has to remind me about checking my e-mail anymore.

Patricia L. Young

**************************************************************

From Ric

>Anyhow, thanks for this forum.  No one has to remind me about checking
>my e-mail anymore.

What higher compliment could there be?  Thank you.
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 09:46:04 EDT
From:        Bob Sherman
Subject:      Different Strokes....

For Tom King:

>"So..... what's the point in finding her?"
>The spirit of inquiry runs shallow.

While almost all of us would agree with your observation, we are also decidedly prejudiced.  Your son's girl friend was as objective as one can get.  She weighed finding the corpse of someone who died 61 years ago with her current situation and her hopes of the future, and failed to find any relevance.

Shallow to us, very practical to others.  For some, curiosity is an insatiable curse; each solution begets another mystery.  It can be a dependency although probably a non toxic one.   RC  941
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 18:30:25 EDT
From:        Dick Strippell
Subject:      Re: Lambrecht Interview

I HAVE AN INVENTORY OF MATERIALS AT THE NIMITZ MUS.  LOOKS LIKE THE LAMBRECHT THING IS THERE.  ALSO LOOK FOR UNPUBLISHED ARTICLE LAMBRECHT WROTE FOR THE BUAER NEWSLETTER

--DICK

****************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Dick.  Good to know that Goerner's interview with Lambrecht should be accessible at the Nimitz Museum.  Lambrecht's article in the Bureau of Aeronautics Newsletter is well known to us.
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 18:40:53 EDT
From:        Susan Bound
Subject:      Re: sinus problems

Addressing the question of health problems which delayed leaving Lae:

Amelia was known to suffer with sinus problems all her life.  Most of us forget that there were NO antibiotics in her day.  She must have suffered miserably with the changes in altitude, so flying was more than just a PR stunt, but could become a painful problem.  Sinus infections don't just infect the sinuses, but also involve the ears, and can cause really bad ear aches as well as excruciating headaches and toothaches.  Also she was young enough to have her menses, and may have had plain old fashioned cramps, probably made worse by altitude changes and extended periods of immobility.  She may also have had discomfort from either not drinking enough to be well hydrated, and thus avoiding needing to void, and she could have had pain in her back from this and from sitting so long in the pilot's seat.

Obviously, Fred could also have had problems caused by the extended periods of travel.  When my husband was in the air force, and flew on the B52's, all the men would try to avoid going to the bathroom as long as possible, and urinary retention and gastric discomfort resulted frequently.

When did pressurized cabins become generally available for planes?

Susie Bound, BSN

***************************************************************

From Ric

A highly modified Lockheed Electra, the XC-35,  did pioneering cabin pressurization work with the Army Air Corps in 1937.  Pressurized airliners were not common until after World War II.
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 18:42:33 EDT
From:        Bruce Yoho
Subject:      RadialEngines  Engines

No I did not see any other radial Engine of any kind at Canton.

LTM
Bruce
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 18:44:20 EDT
From:        David Kelly
Subject:      Re: Starting fires/ sun angles

Tom King wrote:

>Vern -- Neat experiment.  What kind of wood did you use?  We 1997 castaways on
>Niku found that we had no trouble at all getting fires started with the
>abundant dry wood, palm fronds, coconut husks, etc.  Of course there are lots
>more of the latter now than there were in '37, but still, I don't think tinder
>would have been a problem.  To replicate what they had to work with, you might
>try dry leaves and twigs.  Unless you happen to have a few pieces of Pisonia
>grandis lying around.

Try cupping dried grass and when it starts to smoke blow on it gently...it is possible...i have done it before using both a magnifying glass or using a couple of sticks and a bow.  Burning holes in solid timber is fun...but it wont start a fire.

David Kelly
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 18:46:35 EDT
From:        Dean Alexander
Subject:      Re: amateur radio operator

If the "carrier wave" signals were genuine how is it that Earhart couldn't hear the Itasca but could hear the request to broadcast a carrier wave? Did she possibly have a different antenna enabling her to pick up this request?
Dean A.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Good question. Ideas anyone?
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 4 May 1998 18:51:42 EDT
From:        Bob Brown
Subject:      Credibility

I continue to be impressed with your objectivity.  If anything is a thread throughout this discussion it is your steadiness in holding that course.  That has certainly raised the credibility of your efforts to a very high level in my eyes.

Bob

**************************************************************

From Ric

'Preciate that Bob.  Archaeology is a very unforgiving science.  You can theorize all day long but sooner or later you have to go look.  If you have kidded yourself anywhere along the way, what you're looking for won't be there.  We try our darndest not to kid ourselves because when we go to look, we really prefer to find stuff.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 09:31:00 EDT
From:        Barb Mill
Subject:      Re: Amelia's kids

> Which museum has the interior set?  An interactive exhibit
> sounds promising, though I suppose to make it truly accurate the kids wouldn't
> be able to hear anything from the Itasca at all.

The "mock-up" is located in Scotia, NY (5 miles northwest of Schenectady) at The Empire State Aerosciences Museum.....and as far as "truly accurate" goes....no one really knows what was heard in that cockpit.....so we'll do the best we can to make it an educational experience and stay as close to accurate as possible........

And.............

>one of the things that has "wondered" me, why hasn't one of the
>national/international women's groups ever sought to sponsor research

My guess (unsubstantiated, slightly educated opinion) would be that for most of these women's groups the $ they raise go to help improve the lives of the living, therefore to the majority of the members, justifying financial support to "find AE" wouldn't fly.........there are members like myself who join both TIGHAR and the women's groups to do what we can to help because we believe the work they are both doing is educational and valuable.....I too now check my Email regularly because of TIGHAR!!!

Barb
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 10:08:07 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Re: Scaevola growth rate

I have no hard data on Scaevola growth rates, and suspect that they vary considerably with moisture, etc.  We've noted that the stuff grows back pretty fast in areas we've cut through, but Ric or John Clauss could speak a lot better than I to that than I, since they were on the '91 expedition and could see what had happened since '89.

If the plane were parked under a tree, though, there's no particular reason I can think of for Scaevola to grow over it.  If it wasn't growing there when the plane was parked, it most likely wasn't adapted to the location, so it would just start to grow.  My strong impression is that it comes up when land is cleared, in areas that are not shaded by the high-canopy buka forest.

Now, if they drove the plane into a bunch of Scaevola, or, say, through a bunch en route to a shady spot, I'd say it could well have grown up and substantially masked the plane before many people came to the island.  The place didn't exactly get overrun in '38-39, though, and there are quite a few things other than Scaevola that could have made it the plane more or less invisible, like being torn up in a storm event, bashed back into the bushes, washed into the lagoon or off the reef, etc.

By the way, I want to say that speaking just for me, I appreciate the "No Land Club's" scepticism, and I'd say we're probably all in the "Maybe Land Club." There's no hypothesis yet that really fits all the facts and demi-facts with great efficiency.  It's good to have a lot of brains dealing with the matter, from a range of perspectives.

LTM
TK
*************************************************************

From Ric

I agree with Tom's feeling that scaevola doesn't just start growing someplace where it hadn't grown before unless something in the environment changes (such as tree cutting or increased rainfall).  As for rate of growth,  the only thing I have to go on is our own observation.  We were there in October of '89 and the vegetation along the shoreline near the landing (where the channel was blasted though the reef) was quite dense and included a good bit of the dreaded Scaevola.  In December of 1989 the place got clobbered by a big storm which swept away perhaps a hundred feet of beachfront vegetation.  When we returned in September of 1991 the devastation along the shore was impressive. The beach was much broader than it had been before, but also much less sandy. At the treeline, instead of a wall of underbrush there were just a few trees (cocos and pandanus) with huge stacks of broken sticks piled against the trunks on the seaward side, almost as if someone was stacking firewood.  A twelve foot high reinforced concrete pyramid which had stood at the treeline and had marked the landing, was  simply gone. - cleaned off at its base leaving only a couple of bent strands of rusted re-bar.  Out on the beach, the first few sprouts of Scaevola were starting to make a comeback.  They were little knee-high bushes, maybe three feet in diameter.  It had been about 20 months since the storm.

When we returned in 1996 and 1997, the beachfront was again grown up to underbrush, but not as dense as it had been in 1989.  However, there had also been  more storm activity in the ensuing years.

Best guess:  I'd say that given an absence of unusual storms or drought, it would take maybe five years for Scaevola to reach a density which would obscure large objects from view.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 10:10:24 EDT
From:        David Kelly
Subject:      Points of view

Simon Ellwood asked:

>Do astronomical telescopes produce images the correct way up down under
>then <g> ??.   No correction required :-).  From an ignorant pomme.

I wouldn't know.....all our maps show Australia on top and the rest of the world below....:)
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 10:47:36 EDT
From:        Ken
Subject:      Post-loss communication

Dean Alexander wrote:

>If the "carrier wave" signals were genuine how is it that Earhart couldn't
>hear the Itasca but could hear the request to broadcast a carrier wave? Did
>she possibly have a different antenna enabling her to pick up this request?

I would imagine CBS was running more power from a better antenna system then was available on the Itasca.

Ken
****************************************************************

From Ric

It wasn't CBS.  It was KGMB out of Honolulu.  But, yes, they were a major station.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 10:54:35 EDT
From:        Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Island spotting

Saw this letter in the May National Geographic re their previous AE article:

"In July 1943 when I was coplot of a PV-1 stationed in Hawaii, I was ordered to reconnoiter Baker Island, where an airstrip was to be constructed. We arrived in the vicinity of Baker about the same time in the morning that Amelia would have arrived at Howland Island, which is 50 miles north and about the same size, both being flat islands about a mile in diameter. Our six planes flew search patterns for over an hour with no results, because fleecy clouds cast shadows on the ocean that looked just like islands. I can understand Amelia's problem if she ran into the same cloud formations." (William E. Anderson, Jr. - Pioneer California)

Blue skies, jham #2128
*************************************************************

From Ric

Whew!  We have a saying at TIGHAR, "Stuff is hard to find."  Guess that goes for islands too. For what it's worth, the PV-1 (Lockheed Model 18 Ventura) had a cockpit set-up not unlike its grandaddy, the Model 10 Electra.  Anderson may have been out of Canton.  There was a squadron of PV-1s based there at that time.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 11:01:58 EDT
From:        Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Post-loss communication

I haven't followed the amateur radio reports stuff well enough to know what is bogus and what is legit. Since the El Paso one was in the Forum, I thought this report might also be considered interesting.
 
Oakland Tribune, July 8, 1937:
Great Falls, Montana, July 8 (AP) - Ray Havens Conrad, Mont. creamery worker, reported to the Tribune last night he had picked up radio messages which he believed authentic, locating Amelia Earhart's plane at 173 west longitude and 5 south latitude. About 9:40 pm (PST) Havens said he heard a man's voice give the position and say: "All's well. Position 173 west longitude and 5 south latitude. Okay but help needed. KHAQQ.

blue skies, jham #2128
*************************************************************

From Ric

Interesting.  July 8th is well after the last "credible" transmission on the night of July 4th.  However, the position described is only about 100 miles ESE of Niku.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 11:04:24 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Campfire site(s)

I agree, there is a lot to support the belief that the TIGHAR and Gallagher campsites are one and the same.  I just keep worrying about the little things that do not fit well.  The shoe parts TIGHAR found that Gallagher did not find, the bones that TIGHAR has not found, and Gallagher's "southeast corner."  These can all be explained in various ways, still, I wonder.  May there be another campsite where there night be a few pieces of bone that Gallagher, the crabs, and the rats did not carry away?  And, of course, there must be some other bones somewhere -- maybe the same place, maybe not.

We say "Gallagher" when we know it was his workers who made the find and, presumably, it was they who did any further searching. Gallagher reports that an intensive search had been done and nothing more was found.  I guess we can believe that.  It appears that secrecy had not yet been imposed.

I can believe Gallagher's mental picture of the island may have been quite different from the map we look at today.  His view of the island and just where he traveled to reach the site might seem distorted to us.

We have no detailed knowledge of what happened after Gallagher's last telegram, dated, April 28, 1941.  We can theorize anything we please... and it means very little.  Maybe they didn't clear the area originally intended. Maybe the natives refused to work anywhere near where those bones were found.  Maybe they decided the south side of the island was a better place after all.

Then in 1944 the Coast Guard moved in and started construction of the Loran Station -- on that "southeastern corner" of the island.  If that is actually the place the bones were found, it matters little now.  As Tom King points out, there is nothing to be found there now.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 11:07:04 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Sonar: Firth of Forth

I guess this can qualify as "on topic" since sonar is involved. <G>  I'd no more than read John Clauss' discussion of side-looking sonar searching when  I chanced to see a television documentary about the searth for sunken treasure in the Firth of Fourth.  That's practically in Jackie's backyard, isn't it?

They're hunting for all that royal treasure lost when Charles I overloaded the ferry and it went down during a storm.  Some of the same problems John spoke of turned up in the program.  They've been searching for several years.  I'm not sure how old the documentary was.  Maybe they've found it by this time.  If not, I guess they'll be back at it again this year.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 11:19:11 EDT
From:        Pat
Subject:      Re: sinus problems

Was Amelia on medication during the last flight?  I believe that I read somewhere that she had some ongoing gastric problems, not just from inhaling fumes.  That could possibly in some way account for her low weight.  Assuming that she had a not too great appetite anyhow, she would probably not have had an easy time of it on a gosh forsaken island.

I believe that these days her sinus problem would have been cured by an outpatient visit for laser treatment.    Pat
***************************************************************

From Ric

I'm aware of no evidence that AE was on any sort of medication during the world flight.  From what I've seen, I think that the health aspects of the disappearance have, in recent years, been vastly overblown.  There is, however, one physiological consideration that no one has really addressed. The effects on one's hearing after sitting between those two P&Ws for 20 hours should have been considerable and probably did nothing for her ability to hear faint transmissions from the Itasca.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 11:24:38 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Post-loss signals

FOR ANYONE WHO BELIEVES THERE WERE AUTHENTIC POST LOSS RADIO SIGNALS -- HAVE I GOT A BRIDGE FOR YOU!!!!
**************************************************************

From Ric

That's very productive Dick.  Thank you.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 11:45:26 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Post-loss signals

Back on April 8th:

>Oak. Trib, Friday July 9, 1937. An interview with Lieut. Johnson, Coast
>Guard communications officer, Fort Funston. "We know we picked up signals
>from the plane on Friday night, Saturday and Sunday - three days running....
>
>This is VERY interesting!  I wonder if it can be verified in any way???

IT SURE CAN. FIRST CHECK NEWSPAPERS, THEN READ THOMPSON'S REPORT
**************************************************************

From Ric

You have to go deeper than that.  The newspaer articles were edited from reports sent from the newsmen aboard Itasca.  Thompson's report (Radio Transcripts Earhart Flight, 19 July 1937, Commander Warner K. Thompson, commanding officer USCG Itasca) is a compilation edited, added to, and interpreted by the one person who had the most to lose in the wake of the Earhart debacle.

The original logs and press dispatches from the Itasca make it very clear that quite a few people on site at the time were convinced that they were hearing transmissions from the lost plane.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 12:38:50 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Re: Harry Maude

You mentioned Harry Maude was skeptical AE/FN were on Gardner.

MORE THAN SKEPTICAL -- HE SAID THEY COULDN'T HAVE BEEN!

I WAS FORTUNATE TO HAVE ACCESS TO NEXIS FOR SEVERAL YEARS. IT'S GREAT FOR RESEARCHING NEWSPAPERS/MAGAZINES.  I have the Maude piece somewhere if I can just get this g.d. computer to RUN PROPERLY

---- DICK

***************************************************************

From Ric

Maybe I can help you.  For those who may not be familiar with his name, Henry "Harry" Maude was, in 1937, Lands Commissioner for the British Gilbert & Ellice Islands Colony.  The settlement of three islands (Gardner, Hull and Sydney) of the the previously uninhabited Phoenix Group was his project. Maude went on to become one of the most respected scholars of the people and cultures of the Central Pacific.  He is, most fortunately for us, still alive and working from his home in Canberra, Australia.  Over the past ten years we have corresponded with him and, just this past December, he was gracious enough to receive a visit from TIGHAR member Catherine "Cat" Holloway.  His opinions about the likelihood of AE and FN ever having been on Gardner were all expressed in response to our direct inquiries.  What he actually said was this (in a letter to me dated 4 May 1990):

"...What baffles me is why Amelia Earhart or her companion should have died. There was plenty of food on the atoll, any amount of fish on the reef and in the lagoon, and coconuts to drink or eat on the ground or in the trees.  The succulent leaves of the boi (Portulaca) makes a very nutritious vegetable salad and can be sucked for moisture.  The mtea, the ruku, and the wao are also. I beleive, growing wild on the atoll.  The water is brackish, but drinkable for a period in an emergency.  The climate of Nikumaroro is excellent ... not hot like Enderbury and indeed cooler than some of the Gilberts, where I lived for some 20 years and found the temperature delightful.

...Taking all factors into account it would seem that if Earhart and her companion crash-landed on the Nikumaroro reef, one was killed onlanding and the other too injured to do more than send a few messages before dying."

It might be noted that Prof. Maude also felt that it was highly improbable that Gallagher ever found any bones on Nikumaroro and was recently quite astonished to find that abundant documentation exists to confirm that event.

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 16:38:49 EDT
From:        Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Sonar: Firth of Forth

Vern wrote:-

>They're hunting for all that royal treasure lost when Charles I overloaded
>the ferry and it went down during a storm.  Some of the same problems John
>spoke of turned up in the program.  They've been searching for several
>years.  I'm not sure how old the documentary was.  Maybe they've found it by
>this time.  If not, I guess they'll be back at it again this year.

Well Ric, get Oceaneering to ship their side scan sonar out here to us and Jackie and I will find the treasure - no problem, shouldn't take more than an afternoon. Then TIGHAR's mission financing problems will be over for years !   :-)

Don't suppose such outstanding insights earn me a place on Niku IIII ?? Didn't think so.    :-(

Simon

*************************************************************

From Ric

If we took along everyone with outstanding insights we'd need the QEII.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 16:44:03 EDT
From:        Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Points of view

David Kelly wrote:-

>I wouldn't know.....all our maps show Australia on top and the rest of the
>world below....:)

David - you're a genius !!

No wonder AE & FN couldn't find their way to Howland. Setting off from nearby Lae, they obviously had Oz maps with Australia at the top !

Thus, instead of hitting Howland at about 1deg. North, they ended up 1deg South ! - poor old Fred.  :-) We should be able to pinpoint exactly where to search the ocean bed.

Thanks David.

I'll have to remember when I visit my cousin in Tamworth (200m North of Sydney) to go SOUTH and not North from Sydney.   ;-) Geeez - I'm real glad you cleared that up, I could have got real lost outback. I'll have to remember to set my GPS to the OzMode coordinate system when I visit.

Or else I'll just hold it upside down and let it sort itself out. ;-)

For DICK:-

Dick, the Caps-Lock key is on the left, about half way down.

Simon

***************************************************************

From Ric

Okay boys......
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 5 May 1998 21:19:08 EDT
From:        Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Post-loss Signals: KGMB test

RE: reported response to KGMB Honolulu signal sent to AE Sunday night, July 4.

The news articles say carrier signals were picked up by Honolulu Coast Guard and a Pan Am station (unnamed). Would there be any way of verifying receipt of the signals by these locations and verifying the "triangulation" that was supposedly done? Also, would there be separate records, not as part of Cmdr. Thompson's report, from Fort Funston CG (which was the local station in SF Bay area from which Putnam was getting his information)? The news accounts in Oakland say this signal response was the last considered to be authentic. I assume it's why they sent both the Colorado, and then the Lexington, to the Phoenix group.

blue skies, jham #2128

****************************************************************

From Ric

As far as we know, all of the official message traffic has been assembled and databased by Randy Jacobson from archival sources.  I'd be surprised if Fort Funston had anything new, but you never know.

The whole KGMB thing is quite complex (like everything about the alleged post- loss signals).  The following is an excerpt from a Pan American memo dated 10 July 1937.  It is addressed to Chief Communications Engineer, Communications, New York from Division Communication Superintendent, Alameda.  It is signed by G. W. Angus.

"Arriving Mokapu (the Pan Am station on Oahu) Sunday (July 4, 1937), I spent most of Sunday night at the radio station and we set up a watch on 3105 KC at the DF and also at the receiving station.  At 7:30 p.m. local Honolulu time, the broadcast station KGMB arranged a special broadcast to the Earhart plane on their broadcast frequency, requesting the plane to transmit four long dashes on 3105 KC if they heard the KGMB broadcast.  Immediately after the broadcast, Mr. Ambler (Section Supervisor, Communications, Honolulu) and myself both distinctly heard four dashes on 3105 KC.  We are certain of the frequency because the Coast Guard cutter Itasca had previoulsy set their transmitter on this frequency in an effort to contact the plane. Shortly before, we had taken bearings on the Itasca on this frequency, obtaining an approximate bearing of 210 degrees. Upon hearing the four dashes mentioned above we immediately called KGMB by phone and asked them to repeat the test. This was done and immediately after the second test we again heard the same signals except at this time only two dashes were haeard and the second dash trailed off to a weak signal as though the power supply on the transmitter had failed.  Nothing was heard thereafter although a continuous watch was maintained on this frequency all night.  During the time these dashes were heard, it was possible to observe an approximate bearing of 213 degrees from Mokapu."

At least on this signal, no "triangulation" was done.  We know of no instance when more than one station took a bearing on the same signal. The 213 bearing from Mokapu falls very close to Gardner Island but the 210 bearing taken earlier on the Itasca falls well south of her position at the time.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 08:29:41 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      King Charles 's Ship

I'd forgotten all about King Charles's boat. There was a film crew where I work a year or so ago doing something about it but I didn't pay much attention.  What I do remember is a chap who had something to do with it disappeared and it ended up folk searching for him.........

On this note I seem to recall reading recently of a submarine in the Forth too; some naval cover-up apparently.

Regards

Jackie
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 08:34:40 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      How to prove where AE landed

Well, I've got it, folks.  Back in my misspent youth I worked on digs in various spots in the San Francisco Bay area trying to figure out where the late British navigator Sir Francis Drake careened his ship, the Golden Hinde in 1579 during the first British circumnavigation of the globe.  As much rancorous disputation about the subject as there is about the AE disappearance.

Now here's a headline from the Santa Rosa, CA, Press Democrat, dated April 21st, headed: "The Final Word on Golden Hind," and subtitled "Feds: Drake did land ship at Drakes Bay."  The gist is: "The National Park Service is expected within the next year to bestow National Historic Landmark status on Drakes Cove, just inside Drake's Estero, marking it as the place where Drake sought refuge to repair his ship..."

So, there we are.  Enough of this research stuff, enough bashing about on lonely islands.  Let's just get the Park Service to declare Niku an NHL.

Tom King
************************************************************

From Ric

While they're at it they could do Area 51 near Roswell.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 08:58:11 EDT
From:        Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Chater Report

I just learned that the Placer Dome mining company has an interesting section on their website about the Earhart disappearance.  They are the good people who came across, in their files, the lost Chater Report from New Guinea.

You can check it out at www.placerdome.com/11arch/11a3.html
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 09:37:42 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      The Scottish Connection

For Simon and Jackie and anybody else on that side of the water: I don't suppose you'd care to try to track down any descendants or, or papers by, Dr. "Jock" Macpherson, would you?  Jock was the medical officer who accompanied Gallagher back to Niku from his leave in Fiji, and operated on him unsuccessfully.  He was also the forensics expert at the medical school where Dr. Hoodless examined the bones, so one wonders if his trip to Niku might have had other purposes.  Don't know where he was from in GB, but could doubtless find out, and he might well have descendants.......

Tom King

**************************************************************

From Ric

One of Harry Maude's early letters to me indicated that MacPherson's wife lived in Scotland while Jock (aka "Mac") was off serving the King in the far- flung reaches of the Empire.  It shouldn't be too hard to find out where he went to school.  Edinburgh would be a good guess - well known seat of medical learning.  Should that prove to be the case, Auld Reekie is just over the water from where Jackie lives.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 09:45:19 EDT
From:        Tom Cook
Subject:      Was it survivable?

IF the picture of the wrecked model 10 is AE's AND IF the damage was sustained  in landing, would it have been survivable for anyone in the cockpit??  2127

TC
***************************************************************

From Ric

Moot point.  The undamaged left-hand propeller establishes that the airplane, whatever it is, landed successfully.  The left gear leg, and probably the right also, is still down.  A cartwheeling groundloop on landing would have crushed in the nose.  No such damage.  The damage that is apparent in the photo (which is, to say the least, extensive) must be the result of a subsequent event.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 11:05:08 EDT
From:        Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Earhart Conference

On the weekend of July 11 &12 the Earhart Project expedition team will be meeting in San Francisco to review evidence, coordinate further research and begin planning for the Niku IIII Expedition now slated for the fall of 1999.

Although team meetings are traditionally closed to all but the actual participants in the expedition, it has been suggested that we open this one up as an Earhart Project Conference and invite anyone who wants to come.  We could invite the presentation of papers from TIGHAR members, forum subscribers, or anyone else who has research to present.  The cost would be minimal - whatever it took to cover expenses.  We would probably hold it at The Presidio's Golden Gate Club where we held the Earhart Symposium in January.  That was a very successful event but it pre-dated the explosion of interest in the project whch the forum has generated.

So, to help us decide whether there is sufficient interest to expand this team meeting into a full-blown conference, please drop me a short email if you think you might be interested in attending.  This is not a comitment. Thanks.

Ric
TIGHAR1@aol.com
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 11:53:16 EDT
From:        Ric Gillespie
Subject:      TIGHAR Tracks

TIGHAR Tracks Vol. 14, No.1 (TIGHAR's quarterly journal) is now at the printer and should be ready for mailing to TIGHAR members late next week.  It will go First Class mail and will include a copy of the Willis & Geiger Outfitters catalog which features a special TIGHAR expedition shirt (Willis & Geiger outfits our expedition teams).

The Table of Contents for this issue of TIGHAR Tracks is:

The Kanton Mission (a general description of the February expedition to Kanton)
The Pilots thought I Was Nuts (Bruce Yoho's account of his 1971 engine recovery)
Ate another MRE (Kenton Spading's field notes from the Kanton Mission)
The Noonan Project (a review of the recent research regarding Fred Noonan)
Back To Square One (an update on the section of aircraft skin found in 1991)
The Wreck Photo (a review of the latest forensic work)
Pilze fur Jager (the latest Operation Sepulchre investigation)
Special Friends Dept. (a collection of letters and poems about AE from kids)
Book Review (Operation Bright Light by George J. Veith)
TIGHARs At Work (a review of projects being pursued by TIGHARs worldwide)

Also included with this issue will be a separate 11 x 17 map of Nikumaroro showing the atoll's various districts and geographical features and the locations where possible Earhart-related evidence has been found or reported.

The text portion of the journal will be mounted on the TIGHAR website three days after the physical magazine is mailed to the members.  If you're not yet a TIGHAR member and want to be included in this mailing there is still time to join.  You'll find a printable membership form on the TIGHAR website at www.tighar.org or you can simply send a note and a check payable to TIGHAR for $45 to:

TIGHAR
2812 Fawkes Drive
Wilmington, DE 19808

We can also take membership information and a VISA or MasterCard number over the phone.  Just call (302) 994-4410.  If it's after hours you can even leave the information on our secure voicemail system.  We want you to be a TIGHAR member and we'll make as easy for you as we can.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 16:03:50 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Auld reekie/Chater/ King Charles

I'll write to the Medical faculty at Edinburgh re Jock MacPherson. What dates would we be talking about?

Re. the Chater report. I saw the web site of Placer dome a few weeks ago and wrote off to them the other day so I'll keep you posted.

King Charles treasure ship is lying off Burntisland. It is supposed to be carrying  a solid silver dinner service for 30 people as well as crown jewels etc.  A work colleague knows the chap who was wanting to do the salvage and they contacted the Royal Family but they reckoned seemingly didn't want to know! He confirmed that the divers did do side scan sonar and did indeed do several dives around the wreck ostensibly while on defence work for the nearby naval establishment. 

Jackie
***************************************************************

From Ric

I'm guessing, but I'd say MacPherson would have been in medical school sometime between 1925 and 1930.

I think I have copies of everything Placer has.  They were also kind enough to give TIGHAR one of the original "flimsies" (carbons) of the Chater Report.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 16:08:51 EDT
From:        Andrew McKenna
Subject:      Position report

The question begs, what exactly is 100 miles ESE of Niku?

If the post loss radio were to be authentic, and assuming that Noonan had several days to take fixes, the coordinates should have been accurate.  So what is there?

AMCK #1045
************************************************************

From Ric

Water.  Lots and lots of water.  And some fish.  Maybe a whale or two.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 6 May 1998 16:18:06 EDT
From:        Peter Boor
Subject:      Navigation, Sextants, etc.

I'm moved to add a bit of info that I learned in my years as an aerial navigator. A marvelous reference on the subject is the US Navy's Publication H. O. #9, commonly referred to as Bowditch (as in Nathaniel). My copy is a recent version, but the first one that I owned was published in 1938: a gift from a WW#2 soldier stationed in the Pacific, who was curious about how all those natives rafted about the Pacific islands. I loaned the 1938 version to a friend and never saw it again, but if anyone studies it as I did, they will see the connection between nautical and aerial navigation; the latter just beginning to come to the fore prior to WW#2. FN's career would have paralleled the art as described in that old H. O. #9.

Sexants. Aerial sextants today use a bubble as a reference: measuring the angle of a celestial body above the horizontal plane as defined by the bubble. As you look through the device, the optics superimposes the bubble and body images together. Center both images on the crosshair and you've got the angle. I'm not sure, but I would guess that bubble sextants came after FN did his thing. Sailors (or flyers) in 1937 would use the sea horizon as the reference plane instead of the bubble, and again, the images are superimposed to the viewer. Here is where the inverting eyepiece would be used: so the view of the horizon would look normal to the observer. 

Once I flew a > 20 hour mission with a navigator who came to the aircraft very tired and hung over. About six hours into the mission, he was his old self, and performed with his old skill celestially. Unless FN carried his booze with him and nipped constantly, he was most likely able to perform at his best. No, the FN drinking issue ought to be buried along with the spy stuff. Even if true, I can't believe that it affected the outcome.

Peter Boor

***************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Peter.  Actually, bubble octants were in use in the mid-30s.  Fred used one on the Pan Am Pacific survey flights and he borrowed one from the Navy for the first Earhart world flight attempt.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 07:34:53 EDT
From:        Ron DAwson
Subject:      FN'S navigational skills

As best i can determine, Fred signed on with Pan Am in 1930 and resigned in 1935. Five years is not very long to become a legendary navigator - so I'm wondering how much correlation is there between nautical navigation and aerial navigation - I assume its nearly the same, i.e. shooting positions, etc. ????
Ron D. 2126

***************************************************************

From Ric

Aerial navigation is, in some ways, quite a bit trickier.  The view is better, but everything is happening a whole lot faster.

I'm curious about your 1935 date for Fred's departure from Pan Am.  Other information we have indicates that he was with the company until just a month or so before hooking up with AE in March of 1937.  What's your source for1935?
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 07:37:43 EDT
From:        Susan Bound
Subject:      Re: sinus problems

There were no effective medicines for sinus that I am aware of prior to W.W.II!  All of our antibiotics and most of the other drugs were an outgrowth of research done during and after W.W.II.  These days, first antibiotics would be tried.  Sinus surgery is looked down on by insurance companies as a quick buck for Doc's

The treatment for stomach problems was a Sippy diet...which was milk and cream every hour and an antacid on the half hour (UGH!), and bland (white colored) foods such as cottage cheese and mashed potatoes.  We were still using this in the early '70's when I was in training.

 Medical care has improved dramatically in the years since W.W.II.  Most medical care prior to W.W.II was supportive rather than curative in nature. Insulin was discovered in 1928, along with B12.  Vitamins were new things, and many of the drugs were still biologicals rather than chemical compounds.

***************************************************************

From Ric

I recall some reference to AE having sinus surgery at some point.  Must have been fun.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 07:48:27 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Harry Maude: Survival

I had hesitated to comment on survival -- it might not apply to AE and Fred. It has seemed to me that a person with some survival knowledge/skill should be able to survive indefinitely on Niku.  Maud makes it sound like they might have managed!  They may have roamed all over the island.  Of course, if one or both were injured, that might be a different story.

Quoting a part of Maud's letter:

>"...Taking all factors into account it would seem that if Earhart and her
>companion crash-landed on the Nikumaroro reef, one was killed onlanding and
>the other too injured to do more than send a few messages before dying."

If we were to believe the account of post-landing radio signals, it would appear it was the battery that died, not the AE and Fred.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Harry's comments about how easy it would be to survive on Niku always sounded to me a bit like T.E. Lawrence talking about how lovely the desert is.  A different, and perhaps more relevant, perspective is provided by the staements filed by the survivors of the Norwich City disaster.  Like AE and FN, they had no particular training or familiarity with the island environment and found themselves quite unexpectedly marooned.  Of 35 men who went into the water, 24 made it to shore.  They were on the island five days before help arrived.  By the time they were rescued they were very unhappy campers - reduced to drinking rainwater from filthy depressions in the ground, hungry, and frightened of the crabs that, unbeknownst to them, are great eating.  They were also under the impression that the island rats were poisonous.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 07:58:38 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      QE2

re "if we took everyone with insight, we'd need the QE2".  Sometimes in a jest is an idea. Given the present popularity of "theme cruises" (example: the recent cruise to the site of the Titanic), why not get a cruise line to sponsor a 10 or 14 day cruise out of Honolulu at the time of Niku IV, stand off Niku at a respectful distance, guest lecturers etc., company fills the ship, TIGHAR gets a cut to offset cost of expedition. Tapes, publications available on ship. Problem: Splitting TIGHARS personnel resources between cruise and Niku IV.

Ron D. 2126 (fire away, Dick, I'm ducking already.)
***************************************************************

From Ric

I'm not opposed to the idea in principle, but it's hard to imagine that tourists would be content to just stand offshore.  They'd want to walk the burning sands where Amelia once trod and maybe get lucky and be the one to find her lost diary, etc.  We're a tough bunch but I'm not sure we're strong enough to handle that.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 08:12:04 EDT
From:        David Kelly
Subject:      Re: Earhart Conference

If papers are delivered at this conference i would be interested in getting copies.

How many members of the forum are down under...is it worth while holding a conference over here?

David

*************************************************************

From Ric

We'll certainly make any papers available.

How many forum members in Australia?  I'm not sure.  Anyone interested in a downunder Earhart conference might email David directly at djkelly@sneaker.net.au
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 13:35:24 EDT
From:          Tom King
Subject:      Cruising

I dunno, Ric; I'm kind of intrigued by the cruise ship idea.  Maybe some kind of controlled and productive experience ashore could be arranged, plus nightly briefings so cruisers would be the first to get the word.....

Tom King
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 13:37:05 EDT
From:        Jerry Ellis
Subject:      Re: Convention down under

        Perhaps you could request a copy of each paper on a disc in an appropriate format in a word processor or your choice and then post each on the web page. In my field, those interested in a hard copy request it directly from the author.  That would make it a lot easier for you.  I imagine you have plenty to do as it is.  jerry w.

--
Jerry W. Ellis                      Carbohydrates, polymers and
Professor of Chemistry              Chemical Education
Department of Chemistry
Eastern Illinois University
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 13:38:18 EDT
From:        Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: California Earhart Conference

Ya...I think I would like to attend the conference.  It's not far from home.  Fill me in  on the details.

Don  (#2109)
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 13:41:02 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Re: Navigation, Sextants, etc.

Re:  Posting by Peter Boor:

With reference to a nuatical sextant used by flyers...

>again, the images are superimposed to the viewer. Here is where the
>inverting eyepiece would be used: so the view of the horizon would look
>normal to the observer.

The reason for the inverting eyepiece still escapes me.  Would the flyer not see the sky above and the sea below, just as would the sailor?  Why would the flyer wish to invert the image?
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 7 May 1998 13:42:35 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Aerial navigation

The theory is the same - a mixture of dead reckoning,celestial navigation and piloting but using a bubble sextant was in some ways trickier because the bubble oscillated and you had to take an average of say six readings or more.

The accuracy was not as good therefore as for a marine sextant. Most of the early aerial navigators were naval officers and they would have taken a marine sextant as well as a bubble sextant. The flying boats especially used a sextant similar to a marine sextant.

In some ways aerial navigation is easier because you dont have the correction for the horizon but in later aerial navigation you had to correct for the coriolis effect.

I seem to recall Fred left PanAm in early1937, I have it in my mind it was Jan 1st. He started in 1935 in the Pacific division, he was in Miami before that I think. I'm looking into the archives so I'll confirm that
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 May 1998 08:46:34 EDT
From:        Peter Boor
Subject:      Re: Navigation, Sextants, etc.

Vern Klein wrote:

> The reason for the inverting eyepiece still escapes me.  Would the flyer not
> see the sky above and the sea below, just as would the sailor?  Why would
> the flyer wish to invert the image?

The flier wouldn't. Unless he/she was using a nautical sextant (like the one in the mysterious box) and was using the sea horizon as his/her reference. At some low altitude, or with corrections for altitude. As I remember, the sailors also make corrections if the sight is made at a distance above the waterline.

In the air, we always made two-minute sightings, and averaged, either manually or had the more modern sextants do the averaging. Bubble motion can be minimized by bubble size, and coriolis corrections are made to the sighting, depending on heading and speed.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 May 1998 08:52:45 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      Re: FN Navigational skills

Ric: I think you are probably right about Fred leaving Pan Am early in 1937. I am looking now for the reference which stated he "resigned in 1935". However, if we accept he came to Alameda in 1935 and his El Paso friend , Howard Archer, said he made 18 round trips to the Orient, that surely would have added at least another year to his Pan Am tenure.

Have a Safe trip,
Ron D. 2126
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 May 1998 08:54:05 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Post-landing Sigs: KGMB

It may be that none of the radio signals reported to have been heard from AE after they were down are real.  However, I think we should not ignore these reports at this point.  Remember that 1937 was near a maximum in the 11 year solar activity cycle.  If AE did transmit anything, it might have been detectable at very distant locations.

The question has been raised as to how AE was able to hear the broadcast from KGMB when she was not able to hear the Itasca. Maybe she did hear the Itasca and didn't know it.  She was probably hearing CW signals (code) as she fiddled around with the receiver tuning.  Some may have been "skipping" in from distant sources.  And one of them may have been the Itasca.  Neither she nor Fred could read code, so they wouldn't know.

There is also the possibility of "operator error" in working with the radio.  We know it's not easy to find a signal with a continuous coverage receiver -- no preset, crystal-controlled frequencies.  And AE was expecting (hoping) to hear a voice.  But at least part of the time she was listening on a frequency where the Itasca had no voice capability.

Relative to possible equipment problems, there is so much uncertainty as to exactly what the radio and antenna arrangements were on the plane that we can only guess.  We are not sure whether there were one or two receivers or which of the several antennas were used for what purpose.

Assuming an equipment problem, I'll venture one theory...  If, as is suspected, an antenna on the underside of the aircraft was lost on takeoff from Lae, that might explain why AE was not able to hear the Itasca.  If this was her receiving antenna (possibly the "sense" antenna for direction finding as well), reception would certainly have been impaired.  After hours of exposure to engine noise -- and still listening to it -- it would be pretty hard to hear a weak signal.

So, what about the post-landing signals?

If they finally got the plane down somewhere, possibly on Niku, they would want to see what could be heard on the radio -- their only connection to the rest of the world.  Had anyone noticed that they were missing and was anyone looking for them?  And they would have noticed that they had lost the underside antenna.  If, due to this, or any other sort of mishap on landing, they believed they had a receiving antenna problem, they would have done something about it.

A receiving antenna is pretty uncritical and would not have been difficult to rig.  Use any wire you can get your hands on, splice if necessary, and attach one end to the binding-post on the receiver, then run it outside any way that's convenient.  Run the wire as much in the clear as possible and attach it to the highest thing you can manage.  If you have to attach to some part of the aircraft, insulate it.  A dry piece of wood would do. In 1937, people were familiar with stringing up long wires for receiving antennas.

If they found a broadcast station such as KGMB, they might have stayed on it to see what was being said on newscasts.  They might not have been inclined to use the transmitter unless they had reason to believe there might be someone near enough to hear them.  This would be especially true if they couldn't run the engine with the generator and had to rely on battery power.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 May 1998 15:30:04 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Re: Post-landing Sigs: KGMB

Ric will doubtless have more to say in response to your post, Vern, but let me expose my ignorance and ask a stupid question.  If you were trying to elevate your antenna, would climbing up and attaching it as high as you could in a tree be what you'd do, or would it be better to string it out into a clear place even if you couldn't get it very high off the ground?

Tom King
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 May 1998 15:31:48 EDT
From:        Don Jordan
Subject:      Lost antenna

What is the story of the possible lost antenna?  I have heard it several time now but don't know the details.  Fill me in.  Where does this information come from?

Don Jordan (2109)

******************

From Pat:

Someone want to help Don out here? :-) Mini tanks.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 8 May 1998 15:32:42 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Noonan-PanAm

Fred was still with PanAm in the late October of 1936. He was Navigation Instructor on the Hawaii Clipper the first Trans-Pacific  passenger flight from Alameda to Manila. Source: Wings to the Orient.

Jackie
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 May 1998 09:28:21 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Re: Cruising

The  cruise ship idea could be a plus for TIGHAR financially.

First consideration should be given to TIGHAR members.

Toms idea of a controlled and productive experience on shore is a good one.

I would guess  minimum cost per person  would be fairly high  including TIGHAR tax.

Then the question is: for all those who say they want to go, will they really decide on Niku vs. Maui when they see the cost?

Maybe a forum survey.

As for someone finding something, its possible, but not likely.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 May 1998 09:31:27 EDT
From:        Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Re: Noonan-PanAm

Jackie wrote:

>Fred was still with PanAm in the late October of 1936. He was
>Navigation...

The first Manila Clipper flight left November 22, 1935 from Oakland (actually Alameda which is an island a stone's throw from Oakland in the SF Bay). Musik was the pilot. Noonan listed as "navigation officer". Additionally, Noonan and three others were said to be "veterans of all the previous transpacific hops". The papers also say he came to the Pan Am Pacific division (Oakland) in 1935. When he was first announced as a navigator for AE on March 13, 1937 the Oakland Trib said Noonan left Pan Am "a short time ago", although I have yet to find anything more specific. Other sources say he left around the new year.

Blue skies, jham #2128
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 May 1998 09:32:17 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      DNA: Amplification: PCR

For anyone interested in the amplification (multiplication) of DNA, including mtDNA, by the polymerase chain reaction (PCR), there's a readable one-page article in the May issue of Scientific American.  It's the very
last page.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 May 1998 09:34:08 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Post-landing Sigs: KGMB

Tom, relative to stringing up an antenna.  I'd go for as high as I could get it. You're trying to span as much of an electric field as you can.  One side of your circuit is the antenna wire and the other is the aircraft itself (the "ground" terminal of the receiver is connected to it) and, effectively, to the earth.  Even if the aircraft is not well connected to the ground (earth), there's enough coupling to the ground (capacitive) that it comes to about the same thing.  So, to intercept as much the field as possible, get the antenna as far from the aircraft and the ground as you can.  At the frequency involved, being among some foliage wouldn't matter much.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 9 May 1998 09:35:26 EDT
From:        Skeet Gifford
Subject:      Re: Earhart Conference

Ric wrote:

>On the weekend of July 11 &12 the Earhart Project expedition team will be
>meeting in San Francisco to review evidence, coordinate further research and
>begin planning for the Niku IIII Expedition now slated for the fall of 1999.
>
>Although team meetings are traditionally closed to all but the actual
>participants in the expedition, it has been suggested that we open this one up
>as an Earhart Project Conference and invite anyone who wants to come.

I am interested, but would have to adjust my work schedule at Langley.

Skeet Gifford
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 10 May 1998 11:05:22 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Radio: Lost antenna

Don...  I expect Ric will fill in the gaps in what I know about this when he gets back.  It appears there is some movie footage of the takeoff from Lae. Maybe some newsreel footage?

The speculation starts with an event observed as the plane is headed down the runway gaining speed to get into the air.  This is not what we think of as a runway today -- not even the most "rustic" of today's airstrips.  It's just a relatively level strip clear of trees and large bushes, but there is stuff growing there -- Thick tundra grasses, etc.

The tail is up and the plane is gaining speed... For just a moment, a large puff of dust, or whatever, appears under and behind the fuselage.  It is believed this was the underside antenna, with the rear mast already broken, snagging in the turf and probably ripping away the rest of the antenna.

Reverse theorizing...  How did the rear mast get broken off?  The same movie sequence shows that there was a building directly in front of the parked plane. It was necessart to turn the plane sharply, left or right, in order to head out to the runway.  The antenna supporting masts on the underside of the plane are not very sturdy for sidewise forces.  Their strength is in the fore-and-aft direction.  The speculation is that the rear mast snagged something during the sharp turning maneuver and broke free of the plane. There was very little clearance with the tail down. The bulk of the mast may have been dragged the rest of the way until it snagged again breaking off the center mast and ripping the whole antenna free from the plane.

Guessing about guesswork... If that antenna was lost, and if it was the "sense" antenna working in conjunction with the loop for direction finding, it might account for AE not being able to DF on the Itasca's signal.  Of course, it's questionable that she could DF on the higher frequency signal in any case.  Loss of that antenna might also explain her not hearing the Itasca at all until the very last when she was, in fact, trying to DF and using the loop antenna.  These two scenarios do not seem to me entirely consistent.  We just don't know enough about the radio and antenna installations to even make very educated quesses.
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 May 1998 10:01:39 EDT
From:        Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Antenna

Did her radios transmit and receive on two different antennas?  The loop antenna was used for DF'ing and it was on the top of the cockpit. She apparently had no trouble transmitting.  Many stations reported hearing her all along the route.

As I understand it, she had a Loop on the top, and a "V" wire between the fins and, one on the bottom?  What was the bottom antenna used for?

Don Jordan (2109)
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 11 May 1998 10:04:22 EDT
From:        Bob Williams
Subject:      DF (Direction Finder)

During Earhart's test flight at Lae, she reported that she couldn't get a minimum reading (null) on her DF.  While approaching Howland Island, she also reported that she was unable to get a minimum.

As I remember DF theory, the DF Loop Antenna gives two nulls.  One when it is pointing towards the radio station being received, and the other 180 degrees from that received station.  The purpose of the Sense Antenna is to prevent this 180 degree ambiguity.  In other words, the Sense Antenna only allows the null towards the station to be indicated.

If she were unable to receive a minimum, that would mean the Loop Antenna was giving her problems, not the Sense Antenna.  She either had an open in the Loop Antenna circuit or problems in the Loop Amplifier or Balanced Modulator circuits in the DF Receiver.

With the Loop Antenna circuitry inoperative, she would still be able to receive on the non-directional Sense Antenna.  And of course, if the Sense Antenna circuit was inoperative, she could still receive and obtain the two nulls on the Loop Antenna.

Regards,

Bob  #0902
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 10:40:10 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      USS Swan history

From: Dictionary of American Fighting Ships
Swan
Any of various heaby-bodied, long-necked, mostly pure white aquatic birds, related to but larger than the goose. These birds walk awkwardly but fly strongly one started and swim gracefully.

Swan (AM-34), a minesweeper, was laid down at Mobile, Ala., on 10 December 1917 by the Alabama Dry Dock & Shipbuilding Co.; launched on Independence Day 1918, sponsored by Miss Hazel Donaldson; and commissioned at New Orleans, La., on 31 January 1919, Lt. (jg.) Fredman J. Walcott, USNRF, in command.

Swan completed final acceptance trials on 8 June 1920 and was assigned to Division 2 of Mine Squadron 2 of the Atlantic Fleet. She operated out of Portsmouth, N.H., until 23 May 1922, when she was decommissioned there. The minesweeper was placed in commission again on 23 June 1923. That fall, she was assigned to the Washington Navy Yard but operated out of Quantico, Va. By the spring of 1926, Swan changed duty stations again, working for the 15th Naval District out of Coco Solo in the Canal Zone. On 30 April 1931, while still in the Canal Zone, she was designated a "minesweeper for duty with aircraft," presaging her later change of designation. She decommissioned again on 21 December 1933, this time at San Diego, Calif. A little over three months later, on 2 April 1934, the minesweeper was recommissioned and reassigned to the Fleet Air Base at Pearl Harbor. On 22 January 1936, Swan was officially redesignated a small seaplane tender, AVP-7.

For the next five years, Swan operated as a tender for Patrol Wing (PatWing) 2 out of Pearl Harbor. On the morning of 7 December 1941 she was resting on the Marine Railway dock at Pearl Harbor when Japanese planes swooped in on the ships in the harbor. Her crew saw the first bomb dropped on the south ramp of the Fleet Air Base at 0755. Eight minutes later, she opened fire with her 3 inch antiaircraft battery. The next few hours were so hectic for her that her crew could not maintain a chronological log of the action, but they did claim an enemy plane for their 3-inch battery. Though she had been in drydock for boiler upkeep, her engineers had her ready to refloat by 1315.

Swan remained in Pearl Harbor for another month, assisting in the salvage work. Then, on 8 January 1942, she got underway for American Samoa. She arrived at Pago Pago on the 18th and remained until 25 July, except for a voyage to Danger Island in midMarch and a month-long visit to Wallis Island from late May to early July. She headed back to Pearl Harbor on the 25th and arrived on 4 August. She was overhauled there and, after loading ammunition and supplies at Kaneohe Naval Air Station, from 28 to 30 October, got underway to return to the South Pacific. On this voyage, she visited Canton Island, Suva in the Fiji Islands, Funafuti in the Ellice Islands, Gardner Island, Sydney Island, Hull Island, and Palmyra Island. She departed Palmyra Island on 8 December and returned to Pearl Harbor on the 13th. Swan put to sea again on the 30th to carry supplies to Canton Island. She unloaded her cargo there on 7 January 1943 and reentered Pearl Harbor on the 16th. The tender remained at Pearl Harbor until 12 March when she sailed to Johnston Island to tow YC-811 back to Pearl Harbor.

Swan returned to Pearl Harbor on 23 March and from then until the beginning of May, she assisted the fleet air wing by towing targets for bombing practice. From 8 to 22 May, she made a voyage to Tern Island of French Frigate Shoals, located about halfway between the main Hawaiian Islands and Midway Island. Upon her return to Pearl Harbor, she resumed target towing duties, this time for torpedo bombers. Between 1 and 7 June, she made another round-trip voyage to French Frigate Shoals and back, then resumed target towing and torpedo recovery duty.

For the next two years, Swan's area of operations was confined to the immediate vicinity of the major islands of the Territory of Hawaii. She continued to participate in training missions by towing targets and recovering torpedoes for both planes and ships. She also transported passengers and cargo between the islands and rendered other auxiliary
services.

By June 1945, she was in the Consolidated Shipyard in Los Angeles, Calif., undergoing a major overhaul. She remained there through the month of July and into August. On 13 August, Swan headed back to Pearl Harbor and arrived on the 21st. She resumed her routine until 6 October, when she set sail for San Diego. After a two-day stop there, on the 15th and 16th, she continued on to the Panama Canal. She arrived at Coco Solo in the Canal Zone on 28 October and, two days later, continued on to Boston, Mass. She reported to the Commandant 1st Naval District, at Boston on 9 November. On 13 December 1945, pursuant to the findings of a board of inspection and survey, Swan was decommissioned at Boston. Her name was struck from the Navy list on 8 January 1946 and, just over nine months later, on 12 October her hulk was delivered to the Maritime Commission at Newport, R.I., for disposal.

Swan earned one battle star during World War II.

Ric: thought this might be too long for the forum. Wasn't the Swan the ship that carried the airstrip construction crew to Howland in early '37? According to this, she visited Gardner sometime between 30Oct42 and 8Dec42.

Ron D. 2126
*************************************************************

From Ric,

Thank you for that.  Good information to have on file.

I'm not sure about Swan carrying the construction materials to Howland but it wouldn't surprise me.  She was on plane-watch duty for Earhart halfway between Howland and Hawaii for that leg of the flight (which, of course, never happened) and participated in the search.  Sort of surprising that it's not
mentioned in the history.

Very intersting that she made a tour of the Phoenix Group, including Gardner, late in 1942.  Might be fun to check her logs and see what she did there.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 10:50:18 EDT
From:        unknown
Subject:      WW II Corsair

Check out this site:  http://www.midwayphoenix.com/Corsair.html This is for all pessimists who think that an airplane just couldn't be missed, or that nothing would be left after 50 years.
**************************************************************

From Ric

You betcha.  Incidentally, Midway Island is now "owned and operated" by Phoenix air, the same folks from whom we chartered the Gulstream I for the Kanton Mission.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 10:59:14 EDT
From:        Randy Jacobson
Subject:      P/L radio, short version

Recently, there have been a number of forum postings dealing with post-loss radio messages and bearings taken upon purported Earhart signals.  Below is listed the complete listing and discussion of bearings made of post-loss signals from July 2 through July 5 received by Federal radio stations and enlisted radio stations in direct contact with Federal authorities.  A couple of points to remember: (1) radio signals sent at 3105 or 6210 kHz propagate at long distances through bounces of the ionosphere.  Depending upon the number of skips/bounces, sunspot activity, and time of day, reception can be quite variable.  (2) Propagation is best at night for extremely long-range propagation.  (3) 3105 kHz was a recognized frequency used in aviation throughout the US, and many of the signals heard below may well be from signals sent in the continental US or Hawaii.  (4) Radio hoaxes were (and are) a well-recognized phenomena in the 1930's.  Several documented hoaxes sent Coast Guard and Navy ships to rescue points, but the radio signals were later determined to be of local origin.  In addition, since the Itasca was broadcasting several times on 3105 kHz calling to Earhart, many uncoordinated listening posts heard signals which may well have been the Itasca.  (5) All times are in Universal Coordinated Time; to get to local time at Howland (+11.5), subtract 11.5 hours.  (6) To use radio bearings with accuracy, one needs at least two bearings separated ideally by 90 degrees obtained at the same time on the same signal.  The position determined assumes that each bearing is accurate.  To determine level of accuracy, at least three bearings are needed.  The area of intersection should be small if all bearings are accurate; if not, one of the stations is in error, and cannot be determined which one.  The term "triangulation" derives from the use of three stations to detrmine locations. Note that the data below indicate that there are no instances of two stations, let alone three stations, that obtain bearings at the same time.  Determining positions based upon bearings taken from different stations at different
times should not be used.


04 JULY 37
1512Z           Midway PAA hears phone signal, too weak for bearing, Honolulu PAA takes 175 bearing
1523Z           Honolulu PAA hears carrier, bearing 213+/-.  Another PAA report says 210, but signal probably from Itasca
1540Z           Wake PAA says Honolulu bearing 213.5 at 1530Z.  Obtain 75 bearing on signal way above 3105

05 JULY 37
0330Z           PAA Honolulu gets bearing of 210 on Itasca [Itasca bears 229.2 true]
0630Z           PAA Honolulu hears 4 dashes, gets 213, 215 bearings
0638Z           Midway hears wobbly phone between Itasca, Colorado frequencies.  210 bearing, possibly man's voice
0730Z           COMHAWSEC (Commander, Hawaiian CG Section) reports PAA Honolulu hearing since 0630Z, 200 true [no time provided]
1103Z           Midway PAA hears strong carrier, 3105, 175 bearing, but did not sound like previous AE
1105Z           Howland hears 3105 without calls, bearing NNW/SSE on compass [328.5/148.5 true]
1223-36Z        Wake hears strength 5 very unsteady voice, carrier, bearing 144 [141.6 bearing to Itasca]

06 JULY 37
0832Z           Howland reports bearing of NNW/SSE [328.5/148.5 true] on Itasca signals at 0830Z [Itasca bears 351.2 true]
0930Z           Howland reports bearing on Itasca of NW [306 true; itasca bears 354.9 true]
1208Z           PAA Honolulu reports bearing of 196.5 on Itasca at 0947Z [Itasca bears 232.4 true]

In addition, there is a Navy chart maintained in Honolulu that includes the following information [dates in local time]:
Mokapu
        3 July  1st bearing 213 (+/- 10)
        4 July  2nd bearing 200
                also 105 and 180 thrown out as doubtful
Wake            115
        5 July  144

Based upon these data, one can examine the errors in bearings:

0330Z 5 July Honolulu to Itasca: 210 observed, 229.2 true, error 19.2
0832Z 6 July Howland to Itasca 328.5 observed, 351.2 true, error 22.7
0930Z 6 July Howland to Itasca 306 observed, 354.9 true, error 48.9
0947Z 6 July Honolulu to Itasca 196.5 observed, 232.4 true, error 35.9

These data indicate significant errors, with all observed bearings counter-clockwise of the true bearing.

Also note that except of 1103-5Z 5 July, no two radio stations take bearings at the same time.  During 1103Z, Howland and Midway take bearings, but their bearings are so close to the bearing between the two stations that triangulation is unwarranted.

Note that there are no instances of two stations, let alone three stations, that obtain bearings at the same time.  Determining positions based upon bearings taken from different stations at different times should not be used.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 11:01:28 EDT
From:        Randy Jacobson
Subject:      P/L Radio, Long Version

Recently, there have been a number of forum postings dealing with post-loss radio messages and bearings taken upon purported Earhart signals.  Below is listed the complete chronology of post-loss signals from July 2 through July 5 received by Federal radio stations and enlisted radio stations in direct contact with Federal authorities.  A couple of points to remember while perusing the logs are: (1) radio signals sent at 3105 or 6210 kHz propagate at long distances through bounces of the ionosphere.  Depending upon the number of skips/bounces, sunspot activity, and time of day, reception can be quite variable.  (2) Propagation is best at night for extremely long-range propagation.  (3) 3105 kHz was a recognized frequency used in aviation throughout the US, and many of the signals heard below may well be from signals sent in the continental US or Hawaii.  (4) Radio hoaxes were (and are) a well-recognized phenomena in the 1930's.  Several documented hoaxes sent Coast Guard and Navy ships to rescue points, but the radio signals were later determined to be of local origin.  In addition, since the Itasca was
broadcasting several times on 3105 kHz calling to Earhart, many uncoordinated listening posts heard signals which may well have been the Itasca.  (5) All times are in Universal Coordinated Time; to get to local time at Howland (+11.5), subtract 11.5 hours.

02 JULY 37
2013Z           AE sends last transmission heard by Itasca

03 JULY 37
0517Z           PAA Honolulu hears 3105 carrier
0530Z           Itasca hears 3105 signals, weak voice, unreadable
0555Z           Itasca hears 3105 voice, carrier, no modulation, very weak
0604Z           Itasca hears 3105 something like generator start, stop
0607Z           Itasca hears signals go on and off
0607.5Z         Itasca hears word "Earhart"
0609Z           Itasca hears a return call
0610Z           Itasca hears distorted, unreadable, 3105
0613Z           Itasca hears QZ5 (ship call sign) interfering on 3105
0616Z           Itasca hears QZ5 calling KCWR (unidentifiable ship) on 3105
0624Z           Itasca hears voice, 3105, later says not AE
0650Z           Itasca hears QZ5 on 3105
0727Z           Ft. Shafter, HI, hears dashes on 3105
0800Z           COMHAWSEC (Commander, Hawaiian Coast Guard Section) hears dashes, voice, 6210
0831Z           Nauru Radio hears voice on 6210
0833Z           Itasca hears unreadable signal, 3105
0837Z           Itasca hears weak voice, 3105
0843Z           Itasca hears weak, unreadable voice signals, 3105
0843Z           Itasca hears weak, unreadable, voice signals, 3105
0843Z           Nauru hears voice, 6210
0853Z           Nauru hears voice, 6210
0900Z           Itasca hears weak voice, 3105
1000Z           Radio Sydney, Australia, hears voice, unknown frequency
1057Z           COMHAWSEC hears long dashes, 3105
1210Z           Steamer New Zealand hears dashes, 3105

04 JULY 37
0620Z           PAA, COMHAWSEC hear weak signals
0645Z           Itasca hears weak phone signals, ~3110
0653Z           Itasca hears weak signals again
0713-8Z         Itasca hears [morse] code signals, weak, heavy interference
0833Z           PAA Honolulu hears faint carrier on 3105 after KGU broadcast to AE
0850Z           Itasca hears weak phone, carrier on 3105
0851-4Z         Itasca hears two cariers, slightly different frequencies
0854-0929Z      Itasca hears one weak carrier, ~3105, but unreadable
0936-52Z        Itasca hears weak carrier, , continuous
0954Z           Itasca hears carrier fading
1005-29Z        Itasca hears carrier
1010-20Z        PAA Honolulu hears intermittent carrier, no voice distinguishable
1022Z           PAA Honolulu hears 2 long dashes, possibly voice
1031Z           PAA Honolulu hears carrier, man's voice, "61" says Navy Radio Wailupe
1031-1100Z      PAA hears carrier come, go but reception too bad for bearing
1037-55Z        Itasca hears weak carrier
1057Z           Itasca hears code, shifting in frequency, now on top of carrier
1059Z           Itasca hears carrier, but code is gone
1110Z           PAA Honolulu hears code, 3105
1114-5Z         Itasca hears code on top of carrier, weak, unreadable
1122-1124Z      Itasca hears on 3105: ...unlimited...clear...
1123Z           PAA Honolulu hears carrier
1127Z           Itasca hears carrier breaking up
1137Z           Itasca hears carrier on 3105
1145-1200Z      COMFRANDIV (Commander, San Francisco Coast Guard Division) hears strong 5210 carrrier
1152Z           Itasca hears key signals, ~3105
1200-30Z        Wahaiwa amateur hears man's voice, "31.05", "31.07", "KHAQQ", "66.05", "Help"
1210Z           PAA Wake hears voice, ~3105
1215Z           Wake hears wobbly voice, 3105, man's voice
1218Z           PAA Midway hears modulated carrier, 3105, unreadable voice
1245Z           CG SF radio hears dashes, carrier on 6210
1250Z           Itasca hears unreadable key signals, 3105
1330Z           Itasca hears 3105 signals, like QZ5 calls
1437Z           Midway hears wobbly phone signal, as did Wake
1512Z           Midway hears phone signal, too weak for bearing.  Honolulu takes 175 bearing
1523Z           Honolulu hears carrier, bearing 213+/-.  Another PAA report says 210, but signal probably from Itasca
1540Z           Wake says Honolulu bearing 213.5 at 1530Z.  Takes 75 bearing on signal way above 3105
1553Z           Midway hears signals again
1615Z           Press Wireless hears 3105 signal
1646Z           Itasca hears rough carrier
1702-23Z        Itasca hears 20 wpm CW signals on 3105, unreadable

05 JULY 37
0032Z           Itasca hears carrier, ~3130kHz
0330Z           PAA Honolulu gets bearing of 210 on Itasca [true bearing is 229.20]
0630Z           KGMB broadcast to AE.  PAA Honolulu hears 4 dashes, gets 213, 215 bearings
0638Z           Midway hears wobbly phone between Itasca, Colorado frequencies.  Gets 210 bearing.  Possibly man's voice.
0700Z           [Suspect KGMB asks for 4 dashes if N of Howland, 6 if South].  Radio Tutuilla hears 4 dashes
0714Z           Radio Tutuilla hears 4 dashes
0730Z           COMHAWSEC reports PAA hearing since 0630, 200 bearing true [but no time].  [Suspect KGMB asks for 2 dashes if on land, 3 on water] Radio Tutuilla hears 8 dashes, 4 of which strong, 3105, possibly voice.  [8 dashes = south of Howland, on land]
0843Z           Itasca hears weak key or voice, 3105
0858Z           Itasca hears another carrier couple of kHz below 3105
0907Z           Itasca hears generator start, weak carrier varying in frequency
0910Z           COMHAWSEC reports Baker Island hears voice: "NRUI from KHAQQ" short time ago; Howland heard weak voice
0911-3Z         Itasca hears same carrier, very rough, 4-5 kHz below 3105, man's voice but unreadable
0916Z           Baker, Howland hear AE
0919-23Z        Itasca hears another carrier, 310, not so rough, unreadable
0948-52Z        Wake hears modulated voice, good intensity but wavering, 3105.  Strength steady until 0950Z, then to strength 2, wavering more.
1013Z           Itasca hears rough carrier, 3105
1022-8Z         Itasca hears carrier, 3105, unreadable, weak, rough
1029-44Z        Itasca hears another carrier, smoother, higher in frequency, unreadable
1047-1105Z      Itasca hears weak carrier, 3105, now weak CW, 20 wpm, unreadable
1103Z           Midway hears strong carrier, 3105, bearing 175, but did not sound like previous AE
1105Z           Howland hears 3105 without calls, bearing NNW/SSE on compass [328.5/148.5 true]
1107-1124Z      Itasca hears one continuous carrier, 2 or 3 CW carriers, unreadable
1130-1230Z      Radio Wailupe hears "281 North Howland call KHAQQ etc" message on 3105
1215-9Z         Itasca hears several carriers around 3105
1223-36Z        Wake hears strongth 5, very unsteady voice, carrier, bearing 144 [141.6 true to Itasca].  Honolulu PAA reports Midway gets bearing of 201
1230Z           Itasca hears 3 very ragged dashes
1330Z           Itasca hears weak CW signals
1344Z           Itasca hears weak signals again
1350Z           PAA Honolulu hears carrier, 3105
1452Z           Howland hears continuous carrier, 3104 kHz, no modulation
1508Z           Itasca hears weak signal, ~3105
1513Z           Howland hears music on carrier, 3105
1517Z           Howland hears weak, chirpy CW signal, unreadable
1548Z           Howland hears Japanese music, 3105
1613Z           Howland hears 2 undistinguishable CW stations
1625Z           Itasca hears couple of Russian stations, 3105
1650Z           Howland hears weak CW station, unreadable
1714Z           Itascca hears loud CW note or voice, 3105 for 1 or 2 seconds
2127Z           Itasca hears signal around 3105, but a little low in frequency
2322Z           Itasca hears faint signal on 3105

06 JULY 37
0736Z           Itasca asks Howland to take bearing on Itasca at 0800Z
0815Z           Itasca asks PAA Honolulu to take bearing on Itasca at 0845Z,
0945Z
0832Z           Howland reports bearing of NNW/SSE [328.5/148.5 true] on Itasca [true bearing 351.2].  Itasca asks for another bearing at 0930Z
0930Z           Howland reports bearing on Itasca of NW [306 true; itasca bears 354.9 true]
1208Z           PAA Honolulu reports bearing on Itasca at 0947Z of 196.5 [Itasca is 232.8 true]
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 11:03:31 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Re: Post-landing Sigs: KGMB

Thanks, Vern.  I was trying to picture what they could have strung a wire to get in the clear, and whether it would have been very visible from the ground. But of trees there are a-plenty on Niku, and were then in spades.  And Bukas are pretty easy to climb, and there's no way a wire in one would have been visible from the air.

Love to Mom
Tom King
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 11:15:49 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Sextants: Upside down!

>I've perused several texts on navigation, most of which included some
>reference to aeronautical navigation, and still have no idea why an
>inverting eyepiece would be used with a sextant of any kind.

I did come across an interesting bit in one of the older texts.  There was a section headed:  "Upside down!"    Upside down! -- And that's exactly what it meant!  Hold the sextant upside down! A strange idea.  Perhaps stranger still, it makes sense!

This relates to the conventional old nautical sextant working with a visible horizon and sighting on a star.  It's suggested that you turn the sextant upside down and hold it in your left hand.  Of course, sextants are designed for use by right-handed people. (Come the revolution, we gonna change all that!)

There will probably be a lot of stars in sight in the general direction of the one you intend to use.  It would be pretty easy to sight on the wrong star.  so, hold the sextant upside down.  Now you sight directly on the star with the telescope -- point the telescope at the star.  It is the horizon that is seen indirectly by reflection in the mirrors.  Use the rotating mirror to bring the horizon up to the star.  Now, when you return the sextant to its "normal" position, the star (the right star) will be in your field of view.  Finish taking a more precise sighting as you normally would.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 11:39:45 EDT
From:        Sandy
Subject:      Artifact 2-7

I was reading the Dec 1989 TIGHAR Tracks, Vol. 5 No. 5, and am curious about Artifact 2-7, the Lighter.  Has there been any recent follow-up on that?   This, like the replacement shoe heel, is one of the more
intriguing artifacts found...  Although a shoe *could* have washed ashore from anywhere..., a metal lighter *had* to have been brought by human hands....

Just thought I'd open a new can of worms for forum discussion :)

Sandy

***************************************************************

From Ric

Ah yes.  The lighter.  Here's the story.

In 1989 it was found (with a metal detector) buried in the sand beach not far from the landing where the channel was blasted through the reef n 1963.  This was probably the busiest section of beach on the whole island and we found several other bits and peices of metal there.  For example, a brass grommet about the size of a quarter such as may have once been part of a tarp or even a flag, and a silver dinner knife with a broken blade. (Go figure.)

The lighter, after much research, was shown to be a Japanese copy of the early 1930s Ronson Whirlwind design. (It had a little retractable wind screen.) Seems that Ronson came out with the design around 1930 and patented it.  This was at a time when Japanese companies were noted for making cheap copies of American products and flooding the U.S. market.  (Remember when "Made In Japan" was a mark of poor quality?)  The Japanese knock-offs of the Whirlwind hit the U.S. market around 1932 and Ronson hit the roof.  They brought suit against the Japanese manufacturer and by about 1935 the bogus Whirlwinds were no longer in U.S. stores.

So how did one end up on Niku?  Well, sure.  Fred was smoker and he could have had one and lost it on the beach.  But there were plenty of other smokers who strolled that beach and could have had such a lighter.  The USS Bushnell survey team in 1939, for example.  Or the New Zealand survey team (we don't know if the lighters were also marketed in New Zealand).  In short, in the absence of an inscription such as "To Fred from your buddies at Pan Am.  Good luck on your trip with Amelia." The artifact falls into that broad category of maybe-but-probably not.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 12:32:25 EDT
From:        Bob Sherman
Subject:      ANTENNAS

Some of the comments on DF & antennas were a bit confusing.  E.g. "sense" antenna is not compatable with a DF loop, but part of an A(uto)DF to solve the 180 deg. ambiguity.  Getting, or "unable to get" a null, relates to DF and the manual method of getting an (Aural) null.  i.e. by ear rather than electronically with an ADF.  Point:  Did she have a DF or an ADF?

It is true that the DF system used an antenna (often a whip in the early days) but only to tune and identify the station to be used.  The loop did not obtain sufficient signal strength from smaller and/or distant radio stations for positive ident..  Once tuned and identified, the antenna was 'switched' to loop.  The loop was turned while the ear strained to get a null.  At first, min. volume was used (a much broader null) as the quickest  way  to get the approx .direction.  Then the volume was gradually increased to get a 'sharper' (narrower) null.

Back to the Aural null, it was the audio that the loop user heard, thus voice with breaks between words & sentences added to the time and difficulty of getting a  good null.  Code, because of it's spaces was just as bad.  Remember almost all code xmtrs used class C (carrier on only during the sound portions), probably why Itasca could not xmit voice on 7500.

To cope with (all but class C), a heterodyne beat note was added (with a switch called, Tone) to later model loops.  This made it possible to use the carrier wave for a faster, better null, unaffected by voice or the lack thereof..  Did AE's equipment have 'tone'?

Lastly, unless AE had a special DF receiver, she was limited to two bands; 200-400kc (ok, khz) and 550-1600kc; the low frequency band for radio ranges (a-n beams) and the many radio beacons of those days, and the broadcast band.  None of the 'regular' DF's & ADF's from then to now had capabillity above the broadcast band because  nothing related to 'radio' navigation operated above 1600kc.  The latter raises doubt that AE asked for "a long count on 7500" for DF; was it to fine tune her HF receiver? Receiving seemed be her major radio problem.  It may have begun at T.O.

PS  Ric: please clarify the freq. that the HNL station supposedly heard AE on, and what freq. they replied on to request AE's response, which they claimed to have heard.  The heart of that is of course the radios that did not hear the Itasca.  Landing, and in such a way to preserve xmitting capabilities, and rigging an antennna for (can't  canabalize the xmitting antenna) receiveing, would be a major accomplishment for  those who seemed to know so little about their equipment.  RC   # 941

**************************************************************

From Ric

Earhart's direction-finding radio at the time of the world flight was not ADF but was the older RDF.  But therein lies a tale (as always).

In October of 1936 the new Bendix Aircraft Radio Company, run by inventor Fred Hooven, installed one of five prototype "Radio Compass" units aboard NR16020. The receiver was mounted on top of the forwardmost fuselage fuel tank on the starboard side just behind the cockpit bulkhead. The antenna was a dark ball-shaped object about the size of a soccer ball inside a translucent streamlined dome on the top of the fuselage roughly over the main wing spar.  This was a true ADF.  However, in January/February of 1937, while preparing for the world flight, Earhart replaced Hooven's unit with an "old-fashioned" RDF which featured the open loop over the cockpit.  The supposed reason was that it saved about 30 pounds in weight.  Hooven had a fit and, right up until his death in 1985, maintained that Earhart could have found Howland if she had only retained the Radio Compass whose added weight, he said, was more than offset by the reduced drag of the antenna.

In light of all this, I doubt that AE's equipment had the tone function you mention.

Randy Jacobson's recent post cataloging the post-loss signals should answer your question about frequencies on which she was heard.  As for the KGMB's transimission frequency in 1937; I know we have that someplace.  I'd have to look it up.  The point, however, is that Earhart (more accurately, Manning) had homed KGMB during the March 17/18 flight to Hawaii earlier that year and she intended to home on it for the Howland/Honlulu leg.  It was a frequency she certainly knew.  During Niku III, Kenton Spading kept a log of what stations he could pick up from Niku on a little portable AM radio.  No fancy receiving antenna.  He had no trouble at all picking up commercial stations in Hawaii.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 12:34:44 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Re: DF (Direction Finder)

Bob is right about the DF nulls. Maximum signal strength, on the other hand, would be received when the antenna was perpendicular to the signal source, either at 90 or 270 degrees, with the exception that if one's antenna was perpendicular to the source, but headed directly AWAY from it, the source would, of course, diminish in intensity steadily if the signal was constant. Time would be the determining factor of whether or not one was heading directly to or away from the signal source, if one was devoid of normal instrumentation totally, and couldn't see due to fog or whatever. The long wave loop in my own shack, which resembles the one in the Earhart Electra photo is made by Aircraft Radio Corporation of Boonton, N.J., and is Loop Antenna Model L-10A, Serial No. 3829, and its weight is 1.5 lbs. It is remotely (mechanically) tunable through the fuselage body via a motorized gear system or a spline shaft setup. They
work surprisingly well, even INDOORS!
Regards to all
Gene Dangelo,N3XKS :)
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 May 1998 09:39:54 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Secret Service

>I'm waiting for the Liason at Secret Service to return ...

just why would you think the secret service would be involved? I'm interested in Abnormal Psych     --dick
*************************************************************

From Ric

On April 10th I posted to the forum Ron Dawson's message about a newspaper clipping he found, which reads, in part :

from: El Paso Times, March 14, 1937: F.J.Noonan, veteran flier, selected Saturday by Amelia Earhart Putnam to be her navigator on the first two legs of her round-the-world flight, left El Paso about a week ago after a 10-day visit here. Howard Archer, 1140 Rio Grands, with whom Noonan often visited as he stayed at the Hilton Hotel, said Saturday night that Noonan is accredited as being one of the foremost aerial navigators of the world. According to a United Press bulletin from Oaklnad, Calif., Noonan, chosen in a surprise move by Mrs. Putnam, will leave the plane at Howland Island, the first stop after Honolulu. "Noonan has had a colorful career", Archer related. "His father was chief of Secret Service in Chicago, and later was transferred to London. While in London, the son became a lieutenant in the British Navy. ..."

We think that this is probably not accurate information but Sandy is checking it out anyway.

Someone on the forum ( I forget who) frequently complains about people who ask stupid questions before reading the available information.  I usually repy that this forum is not a test, it's an educational medium and a research tool. There are no dumb questions.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 May 1998 11:50:15 EDT
From:        Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Noonan/Sullivan Wedding - New Info

Ah, the mystery deepens. This just in from the July 12, 1927 Daily Clarion Ledger from Jackson, Mississippi:

"Noonan-Sullivan Marriage: Miss Josie Sullivan of Savannah, Georgia, and Captain Frederick J. Noonan, formerly of Chicago, but now of New Orleans, were quietly united in Marriage on Monday at high noon in Saint Peter's Catholic church. Reverend Father O'Reilly was the officiating minister in the presence of close friends and relatives. The bride has been making her home in New Orleans for four years and her uncle and aunt, Mr. and Mrs. W. A. Huston, came to Jackson from the same city more than a year since and are pleasantly located at 145 South Calhoun street, and she was their guest at the time of her marriage. Mr. and Mrs. Huston were best man and matron of honor and the bride was handsomely gowned in a traveling suit of beige and blue with close fitting hat, while Mrs. Huston was lovely in a gown of orchid crepe with white picture hat. Captain and Mrs. Noonan at once left in their car for New Orleans and other points on the Gulf Coast and will later sail for Cuba for their honeymoon, after which they will be at home in New Orleans."

So, Noonan must have left whatever British naval service by sometime around 1925/26, at least (he had to have some time to get established in New Orleans and court Josie). I wonder what he was doing in NO? Something related to navigation, or flying? Although I've seen other mentions, this is the earliest reference I've seen to his being a Captain, and now I'm beginning to believe he was. He is again mentioned as being from Chicago and I'm buying that as well. And once again we have a car trip. I think this guy loved going down the road (or maybe just going anywhere), and I bet he liked going fast.

Blue skies, jham #2128

****************************************************************

From Ric

Very interesting indeed.  In the 1920s and 30s the title "captain" was an honorific bestowed upon any aviator of note and I had always assumed that references to Fred as "Captain Noonan" were so justified.  Not so.  Fred's title has nothing to do with aviation.   The date is July 12, 1927.  Lindbergh flew the Atlanitc just a couple of months ago and the country is in a frenzy of aviation worship.  If he was involved in aviation it almost certainly would have been mentioned in the article. Fred is a sea captain who called Chicago home from at least 1910 until not too long before the wedding.  He doesn't even have a friend or shipmate in New Orleans to stand up for him at the wedding.  He uses Josie's uncle as his Best Man.  He has enough money to get married and honeymoon in Cuba.

Fred's title is also not a naval rank from any British naval service.  There is no way that a 36 year-old man who calls Chicago home is a Captain in the Royal Navy.  Fred's title is a matter of papers, not military service.  I'll bet we find that he was never in any kind of armed forces.  There must be records of mariner's ratings somewhere.  If he is working out of Chicago and later New Orleans is seems like he must have American papers, licenses, certifications.  That has got to be researchable.

Onward.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 May 1998 11:53:21 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Herald Tribune deal

>Does any one know how this
>worked? Was it only Tribune papers?

YOU'RE HALF RGHT -- THE EXCLUSIVITY WAS WITH THE N.Y. HERALD TRIBUNE WHICH SYNDICATED SOME OF THE PIECES.  CHECK THE HARTFORD,CONN. COURANT'S WEB PAGE FOR THE FINAL A.E. COLUMNS
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 May 1998 13:33:12 EDT
From:        Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Antennas

Bob Sherman wrote:-

>not hear the Itasca.  Landing, and in such a way to preserve xmitting
>capabilities, and rigging an antennna for (can't  cannabilize the xmitting
>antenna) receiving, would be a major accomplishment for  those who
>seemed to know so little about their equipment.  RC   # 941

Sounds to me, from what Ric says about Kenton's experiment with the simple radio at Niku that it may not have been necessary for AE/FN to patch up an Rx antenna - if a simple AM radio can pick up Hawaii then perhaps the DF loop could also - Vern ? would the DF loop be at least as good as a standard AM radio aerial ?

I think, all in all, we're producing quite a likely scenario here:- AE looses the belly antenna and can't receive anything until she tunes in the DF antenna very near Howland. Due to the radio procedural, coordination and skip problems, contact with Itacsa is never properly established and resorting to their contingency plan they steer 157 and find Niku. On the island, in good reception conditions, perhaps they receive from the DF aerial and maybe transmit signals which are heard.

One question I have, Ric - has the "steer 157" contingency been firmly established ?  What I mean is, is it known that Fred intended to use this plan - or is it sensible conjecture ?
***************************************************************

From Ric

Sensible (I hope) conjecture.  Earhart's final transmission heard by Itasca seems to indicate that they are flying along a "157/337" degree line of position (LOP), but it does not specify which direction they're going.  Flying along the LOP is exactly what they should be doing to find land, according to standard navigational procedure for that time.  A 157/337 LOP drawn through Howland also intersects Baker, comes close to Mckean, and comes very close to Gardner.  Of the four possible islands, Howland is at the northwest end with the others trailing off to the southeast.  If, upon reaching the LOP and not seeing Howland, you turn northwest (337 degrees), you're gambling that you have hit the line southeast of Howland.  If you're wrong and you're already northwest of Howland, there is nothing but open ocean ahead of you.  You're gonna die.

If, on the other hand, you turn southeast (157 degrees), you're in better shape.  If you're northwest of course you'll soon come to Howland.  If you're southeast of course and headed away from Howland you still have three chances to make land before you run out of fuel.

In short, if faced with the choice of which way to run on the LOP, it's a no brainer.  You follow the 157 heading.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 May 1998 13:35:35 EDT
From:        Barb Norris
Subject:      Amelia's kids

Too bad the girlfriend had such little desire to understand what really happened to a most amazing woman.  On the flip side, I teach a group of curious ten year olds who have adopted AE as their very own.  The kids (and I) are absolutely fascinated with the talents and accomplishments of Amelia. Their interest on the subject of the search for AE has been so strong that they have planned a community event entitled "An Evening with Amelia Earhart." This "gala" event is slated for May 29th 1998 - 7:30pm - $3.00 @ at the Downingtown Sr. High School in Downingtown, PA.  The whole idea is to help raise money for the search.  These kids really do have vision and they can actually make a wothwhile contribution.  If you're in our neck of the woods, consider yourself invited!

P.S.  You should consider bringing your son's girlfriend too.  Adios, BN
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 May 1998 13:37:43 EDT
From:        Sandy Campbell
Subject:      Re: Secret Service

>"Noonan has had a
> colorful career", Archer related. "His father was chief of Secret
> Service in Chicago, and later was transferred to London. While in
> London, the son became a lieutenant in the British Navy. ..."
>
> We think that this is probably not accurate information but Sandy is checking
> it out anyway.

Just to update the forum...  I heard from the Secret Service folks recently with a letter stating they were searching their records and would contact me again in a few weeks with the results...

Sandy
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 13 May 1998 13:42:51 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Wedding

I have written away for the wedding cert.  They are a lot stickier than Yuma, I have to prove' tangible interest'

I believe the title of captain derives from his holding a River pilot's licence on the Mississippi - I am following this up.

He was teaching navigation at the time of the wedding I think.

Jackie
**************************************************************

From Ric

Chicago seems like an odd place for a Mississippi riverboat captain to live. New Orleans works fine.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 09:48:54 EDT
From:        Clyde Miller
Subject:      Captain Noonan

River and Great lake traffic in Chicago might have Cap'n Noonan working tugs, barges, etc for a short time?

Clyde Miller
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 09:50:00 EDT
From:        Jerry Hamilton
Subject:      Herald Trib deal

Thanks for the Courant web site. Part of the reason for the question was to determine if the Oakland Tribune articles I have access to are truely AE exclusives as the paper said. Since they published the AE Lae account also on July 2, and it matches word-for-word, they must have had the original AE exclusives as well. And I'll bet the Chicago Trib, among others, did too.
Blue skies, jham #2128
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 10:11:18 EDT
From:        Bob Sherman
Subject:      DF LOOP vs ANT

Simon asks if the DF Loop would not do as well as Ken's portable recvr.
Possible, but.... Todays transistor super het. recvrs. are a great deal more sensitive than those of 1937.   However, 'skip' is a wonderful phenomena.  Sometimes stations 50 miles away don't come in, while one 1000 miles away sounds like next door.  The freq. is the troubling factor.     I would love to know if someone had adapted her RDF capability to function on 3105kc.  99.99+% of aircraft DF's were limited to two bands; 200-400kc, & 550-1600kc. (The lower band is no longer found on most ADF's.)    If not, forget about the loop.

It seems to me that the primary problem was receiving.  Good possibility that something happened to the recv. ant. or its connection on the last leg.  I don't think the argument is, could they have xmitted & recvd. msgs. if they had landed in a reasonable condition, but how strong is the evidence that they may have.

My thoughts sometimes wander to:  with all the help that AE had before leaving, she was certainly aware of what it would take to find HOW, yet she left the trailing ant. behind, (no pun intended) and removed the ADF. It seems to me that in her mind there was no problem in that she did not need those items.    The naval support was going to guide her in. Someone was going to have it all coordinated.   When she called, they would give her a bearing.  Not to worry

Was it Capt. Thompson's cable to her about his frequency capabilities that led to her local flt. to try out or test the loop?  And to cable Geo.Putnam to get the radio thing straightened out?     RC  # 941

**************************************************************

From Ric

In his later report, Thompson makes a big point of saying that it was never intended that Itasca would take bearings on Earhart but rather vice versa. Yet that is what Earhart repeatedly asked for.  It's easy to understand why. Much easier to just be told which way to fly than to figure it out for yourself.

What has always puzzled me is that when Earhart did attempt to obtain a bearing on Itasca she asked for "a long count" on 7500 kc.  She obviously didn't understand that Itasca had no voice capability on that frequency, but why ask for such a high frequency in the first place?  It was either an outright error or she had (or thought she had) high frequency DFing capability that we don't know about.  Certainly the Western Electric 20B receiver couldn't handle that.  There has always been speculation that she may haver had a separate DF receiver aboard.  Some have claimed that it was a Bendix RA-1.  I recently came across an AP story in the the May 30, 1937 Palm Beach Post which says, in part:

"Noonan, skilled aerial navigator, will relieve Miss Earhart of the considerable labor aloft of plotting the plane's course.  Another aid will be radio direction finder installed by Pan-American technicians."

We know that Pan Am did some radio work on the plane while it was in Miami. Earhart had had lots of trouble with the radio on the flight over from California.  they also worked on the Sperry Gyro-Pilot (autopilot).  This is the first contemporaneous source I've seen which claims that they installed a
DF, but I don't believe everything I read in the papers.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 10:17:57 EDT
From:        unknown
Subject:      Captain Noonan

Ric wrote:

>Chicago seems like an odd place for a Mississippi riverboat captain to live.
>New Orleans works fine.


Chicago does connect to the Mississippi by canal.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Didn't know that.  Thanks.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 10:21:50 EDT
From:        Amanda Dunham
Subject:      Niku tree climbing

From Amanda Dunham

Dick Strippel wrote:

>> Does any one know how this
>> worked? Was it only Tribune papers?
>
>YOU'RE HALF RGHT==THE EXCLUSIVITY WAS WITH
>THE N.Y. HERALD TRIBUNE WHICH SYNDICATED SOME OF THE PIECES.  CHECK THE
>HARTFORD,CONN. COURANT'S WEB PAGE FOR THE FINAL
>A.E. COLUMNS

It's considered "netiquette" to include the url (and to turn caps lock off).  Try http://www.courant.com/news/special/amelia/index.htm for the Hartford Courant AE page.  It has information on Linda Finch as well.

Regarding stringing antennas - are the trees on Niku climable?  A stupid question from a city kid who's only ever climbed sycamores. Amanda Dunham
***************************************************************

From Ric

Buka trees, the tallest kind around, are certainly climable.  Cocos are a lot tougher.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 11:05:38 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      Secret Service-Not

Received the following from S.S.       Ron D. 2126

Subj:   Secret Service
Date:   5/13/98 1:57:20 PM EST
From:   USSS PA

Reference is made to your electronic message dated April 21, 1998.

We searched the records in the U.S. Secret Service Archives for any mention of a Mr. Noonan.  Unfortunately we were unable to locate any reference of a Mr. Noonan, or his status as an employee with the U.S. Secret Service.  In addition, during that eara, the title "Director" of the Chicago Secret Service would have actually been "Operative in Charge."  For the time period requested, the operatives in charge of the Secret Service's Chicago District were: Thomas I. Porter (1886-1926) and Thomas J. Callaghan (1926-1945).

Thank you for your inquiry.

H. Terrence Samway
Assistant Director
Office of Government Liaison
   and Public Affairs

**************************************************************

From Ric

Good work Ron.  Another one bites the dust.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 11:08:49 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      mea culpa

My apologies to Jackie. I failed to mention that I had sent an email to the Secret Service asking asking info. One now wonders about Fred's friend, Howard Archer. Who was embellishing? Fred or Howard?

Ron D. 2126
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 11:19:49 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Post-Landing Sigs: KGMB

As has been pointed out (lost track of who it was, sorry) it might not have been easy for AE and Fred to come by a length of wire to string up a receiving antenna to hear KGMB.  We don't know what sort of wiring might have been strung through the plane that one might have been able to get free and use for an antenna.  I think of wiring such as to running-lights in the tail area.  I don't have a photograph at hand to see whether there appear to be such lights.  We don't know, for sure, whether the trailing antenna was there or not.  Some say it was left behind in Florida, but that can not be confirmed.

Be that as it may... Another scenario:  The loop antenna.  The one time AE did hear a signal from the Itasca, she was trying to DF with the loop.  She heard the signal on 7500 kilocycles -- a far higher frequency than the loop was designed for.  She might have been able to hear a strong broadcast signal with the loop.  She knew it worked with the Itasca, she might have given it a try.  I assume KGMB was broadcasting in what we consider the AM broadcast band, somewhere in the 500 kc to 1500 kc range.  This is within the frequency range the loop was designed to operate in.  It might have worked as well as the loop-stick antenna in that little transistor radio the TIGHAR team was able to pick up Hawaiian broadcast stations with!

***************************************************************

From Ric

Yes, there were standard nav lights on the airplane.

We can be quite certain that there was no trailing wire antenna.  There is no external evidence of a trailing wire system on the machine once it leaves the repair shop in Burbank on May 19, 1937.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 11:20:57 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Antennas

Simon Ellwood wrote:

>Sounds to me, from what Ric says about Kenton's experiment with the
>simple radio at Niku that it may not have been necessary for AE/FN to
>patch up an Rx antenna - if a simple AM radio can pick up Hawaii then
>perhaps the DF loop could also - Vern ? would the DF loop be at least as
>good as a standard AM radio aerial ?

As you will have already seen, you beat me to it!!
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 11:29:17 EDT
From:        Sandy Campbell
Subject:      Re: Secret Service- Not

> Subj:   Secret Service
> Date:   5/13/98 1:57:20 PM EST
> From:   USSS PA
>
> Reference is made to your electronic message dated April 21, 1998

Hmmmmm. When I spoke to Washington on the phone I was told such requests had to be made in writing....  Don't know why it would be any different.., but am curious to see what they send me.

Also, if one is going to embark on certain research tasks, could they please notify the forum of their intentions?  Redundancy is getting expensive.

Thanks.

Sandy
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 11:30:54 EDT
From:        Sandy Campbell
Subject:      Re: mea culpa

> One now wonders about Fred's friend, Howard
> Archer. Who was embellishing? Fred or Howard?

Could we are now be discovering a bit about Fred's subtle Irish humor....?
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 12:52:50 EDT
From:        unknown
Subject:      Earhart's popularity

To jham #2128: I agree with your comments (about exclusive media rights).

Considering the fact that A.E.'s popularity has been compared to Princess Diana's, I find it difficult to believe that any major newspaper during her last flight wouldn't have had all sorts of "sources" - one of the biggest stories of the twentieth century.

"Very confidentially I may hop off in a few days.  I am going  to try to beat the newspapers.  So you don't know nothin'".

                one of Amelia's last letters
                to her mother - source - "Letters from Amelia"
**************************************************************

From Ric

In looking back through the newspaper coverage, a few things are apparent:

1.  There was very little coverage of AE's preparations for the second attempt until she got to Miami.  She planned it that way to avoid embarrassment if there were more problems with the airplane.

2.  Coverage during the world flight was spotty at best.  AE's trip was not big news.

3.  The disappearance, of course, was big news and dominated the headlines of many papers for about two weeks.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 14 May 1998 12:57:47 EDT
From:        Don Neumann
Subject:      Running on the line

If noonan's LOP did actually intersect BAKER & assuming a.e. was heading SE on that heading, why wouldn't she have tried to land there, considering that her fuel supply was running low?

Don Neumann

**************************************************************

From Ric

Baker is about 40 miles SE of Howland.  There were Dept. of Interior employees there at the time.  They never saw or heard an airplane.  If AE and FN were on the 157/337 LOP they said they were on, they had to have been either far enough NW of Howland or far enough SE of Baker not to have seen the islands.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 May 1998 09:02:49 EDT
From:        unknown
Subject:      Bad book, bad rap

To Ric - What's your take on the Loomis book (1985)?  If I remember correctly, it is not one of your favorite things.  He certainly paints a negative picture of FN.

"While the aircraft was being serviced, Amelia and Fred repacked the Electra to eliminate everything not essential to the flight.  `We have even discarded as much personal property as we can decently get
along without and henceforth propose to travel lighter than ever before,' wrote Amelia.  `All Fred has is a small tin case which he picked up in Africa.  I notice it still rattles, so it cannot be packed very full.'"

"On the evening of July 1, the night before the takeoff from Lae, the two fliers were to retire early, but Fred decided to spend the time drinking with friends.  The next morning, July 2, Fred made it back to his hotel room only forty-five minutes before Amelia came pounding on his door to announce they would take off in a couple of hours."

"Harry Balfour, the radio operator at Lae, recalled, `Noonan...was on a bender up at Bulolo during the time and was put on board with a bad hangover and she [Earhart] did remark to me in the radio station the night previous...that neither of them could read Morse and therefore could not get navigational assistance from land based radio stations or shipping.'"
***************************************************************

From Ric

The 1985 Loomis book you refer to is, of course, "Amelia Earhart - The Final Story" by Vincent Loomis with Jeffrey Ethell.  I've never met Vince Loomis but I've interviewed two people who were with him on his expedition to the Marshalls - CBS newsman Jim Slade and aviation enthusiast Al Wenger.  The book's actual author, the late Jeff Ethell, was a friend of mine. Bottom line:  The Loomis book is decently written (Jeff was not a bad writer) but very poorly researched.  The trashing of Noonan is based entirely upon unsubstantiated ancedote and is contradicted by what genuine sources are available.  The true story of Loomis's adventures in the Marshalls will never be written because Gilbert and Sullivan are dead and the title "The Ugly American" is already taken.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 May 1998 09:15:40 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      What Devine saw.

MOST IMPORTANT -- DEVINE WASN'T ON SAIPAN DURING THE FIGHTING.  HE DIDN'T GET THERE UNTIL THE NEXT YEAR.

**************************************************************

From Ric

Thomas E. Devine's allegations, as published in his book "Eyewitness" (Renaissance House, 1987) have been thoroughly discredited.  Let's move on.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 May 1998 09:37:51 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Post-Loss radio possibilities

Just a few radio related thoughts about these signals. It might be of interest to note that, while the fundamental transmission frequencies in use in the pertinent transmissions were indeed 3105 and 6210 Khz, a lot of contemporary radio receivers of the time employed intermediate frequency stage oscillator coils of 455 Khz. Oftentimes, if conditions both in and outside of the radio were unstable enough, an "image frequency" could be generated on these amplitude-modulated receivers, giving the impression of a spurious signal reception at a frequency of the fundamental frequency PLUS twice the intermediate (IF) frequency, which in these cases, would yield reception frequencies of 4015 Khz (3105 + 455 + 455) and 7120 KHz (6210 + 455 + 455) respectively. Throw into the mix wherever the Niku/Howland area was in the eleven-year sunspot cycle (and how it affected that latitude), and some interesting possibilities begin to abound. By any chance, did anyone at that time report receiving any peculiar signals on either 4015 KHz or 7120 KHz? Also, was there access to any remote storage battery to power the radio equipment, or did all depend on the magneto generator? If a battery was available, it would need to power the probably 6.3 common tube filament voltage, as well as whatever the higher tube grid voltages would be,
through transformers, etc. As available voltage dropped, it would make sense to switch from voice to CW, even if one didn't know the morse code, since less power would be drawn to modulate the carrier. Even if no code key was available, the necessary leads to make/break CW keying could be rigged with two pieces of wire, touched together to make a dot or dash. Captain Noonan, from prior experience, even with no morse knowledge, possibly would have known the .../---/... necessary for SOS. Food for thought, anyway! 

Many Thanks,--Gene Dangelo :)

**************************************************************

From Ric

Geesh, the more closely we look at this the more complicated it gets.  I don't think that I've heard of signals received on either of those frequencies.  the Electra had two batteries - the main battery in the belly near the main spar, and an auxilliary battery on the cabin floor just forward of the door.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 May 1998 10:06:01 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      P/L Signals credibility

In search of credibility... We have the article about the ham who believed he had heard AE's response, on 3105 kc, to the KGMB broadcast. (El Paso Times, 7-7-37, thanks to Ron Dawson) The article states that W.E. Tippin heard the KGMB broadcast on 12,000 kc. I'd have guessed that KGMB was on a frequency somewhere in the U.S. AM broadcast band -- about 500 to 1500 kc.  I've speculated that AE might have
heard that with her loop antenna which was designed to operate in that frequency range.

Do we know any more about the KGMB broadcast than I've seen here on the forum in the past couple of months?  What frequency did they broadcast on? I think it is not uncommon for a station to broadcast on more than one frequency and, at least part of the time, to broadcast the same programming -- low-frequency for the local audience and "shortwave" to a more distant audience by signal bounce.  I think any other frequencies would use different "call letters"  but that may just not have been brought out in the article.

Do we have any information on this possibility?  It would explain how Tippin was able to hear the broadcast on 12,000 kc. and lend a little more credibility to his claim.  I think 12,000 kc may be in one of the designated shortwave broadcast bands.

Incidently, indications are that, if AE's receiver was a W.E. 20B, it did not tune as high as 12,000 kc, but only up to 10,000 kc.  If it was a Bendix RA-1, it would tune up to 15,000 kc.  This may not have much to do with anything.
*************************************************************

From Ric

No, I'm not sure what frequency KGMB was transmitting on, or if they may have had more than one frequency.  I've reviewed the official message traffic and while there are many references to the KGMB broadcasts, it is apparently assumed that everybody knows KGMB's frequency.  Betcha the FCC could help us out here.  Anybody want to dig into that?
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 May 1998 10:13:14 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      Divorce Residence

He wanted to establish Juarez residence, not Texas. They usually used their Mexican lawyer's address. Residency requirements were short - I believe two or three weeks, as opposed to six weeks in Reno. Many Hollywood types passed thru here in the forties and fifties.

Ron

**************************************************************

From Ric

Okay, so you go to El Paso and you contact a Mexican lawyer (who maybe has a branch office in El Paso?) and you use his Mexican address to establish residence.  Maybe you have to appear in person in Mexico to start the process? Meanwhile, you hang out for a couple of weeks in El Paso and then go back down to Juarez to file the papers when you're a legal resident.  About three weeks later (in Fred's case, just two weeks) bueno, you're a free man.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 May 1998 15:58:25 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Trashing Fred

I was reading some of that Loomis book and the Devine book today. Loomis says even worse things about Fred's drinking on the Clippers. Ric I must be missing something but could you remind me of the substantiated evidence to the contrary? Is it what was mentioned on the forum recently about pictures of a "happy,sober,smiling Fred" before take off.  I only have ONE picture of a happy looking relaxed Fred.  In all the others I have he looks uncomfortable, tired, worried, fed up......I always think he should smile more often; it takes years off him.

If the rest of Loomis' book is anything to go by I would take his portrait of Fred with a pinch of salt but I have to admit these graphic and varied comments do worry me.

Jackie

****************************************************************

From Ric

As we've said before, all of the allegations about Fred's drinking are anecdotal and date from not earlier than Goerner's 1966 book.   Opportunities to verify the veracity of anecdotes are rare, but we do have one good example.

Loomis quotes Lae radio operator Harry Balfour as claiming that Fred "was put on board with a bad hangover." (page 8)  Loomis later writes that "After Fred was helped aboard the Electra, Amelia climbed in through the cockpit hatch..." (page 10)

The motion picture film of the Lae departure shows a bouncy, cheerful Fred Noonan helping Amelia up onto the Electra's wing.  He enters through the cockpit hatch, followed by AE.  The scene described by Balfour and Loomis never happened.

There are pictures of Fred taken during the world flight which show him looking less than buoyant.  There are similar pictures of AE which have prompted some to claim that she was ill.  Nobody claims she was a drunk. Well, almost nobody.  I recently rejected a posting to the forum which related an anecdote about Amelia which had her "snockered" at a party and publicly peeing over a railing.  I could relate numerous other anecdotes I've heard (some, supposedly, first hand) which portray AE as crude, domineering and
promiscuous.  The point here is that public figures attract negative gossip (isn't that right Mr. President?).

A quick review of our collection reveals 14 pictures of Fred.  In 6 of them I would call his expression serious or concentrating.  In 4 photos he is smiling and in the other 4 he is just sort of neutral, contented-looking.  Maybe it's all in the eye of the beholder.

We're still hoping to get access to some never-before-seen letters Fred wrote during the world flight.  Perhaps they'll give us some more insight into how and what he felt during the trip.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 May 1998 16:40:02 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Fred's fall in Honolulu

Comparing the two accounts of the aftermath of the crash at Luke Field in Loomis and Devines books.  Loomis says that by noon on the day of the crash Noonan was aboard the Malolo bound for California.  Devine suggests that Fred fell in his Honolulu bathroom because he had been drinking as a result of the crash.  Unless Fred visited Honolulu again  this does not give him much time to drink such an amount that he is falling about and then presumably recover pack his bags and board ship apparently sober since there are no reports to the contrary.  All in a matter of say three hours?
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 15 May 1998 16:41:40 EDT
From:        Randy Jacobson
Subject:      KGMB Frequency

KGMB at the time broadcast at 590kHz at 1000 watts.  By 1939, upgraded to 5kW and 1320 kHz and 590 kHz.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 May 1998 09:46:54 EDT
From:        Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Noonan Notes from Miami

What follows are notes and comments from a visit to the University of Miami Special Archives Collection, containing the Pan American Air archives.  Facts will be in regular print, quotes from documents in quotations, and my comments/speculations in square brackets [ ].

First, the PAA archives is the largest collection that the Special Collection at UofM has, well over 600 boxes (typical size: xerox box size containing 10 reams of paper).  There is an index to the archives, usually listing the contents of each box by folder, which contains some indication of their contents.  PAA had some internal filing system, but I could not decipher it nor did I find a filing manual.  Most of the material is not well organized [actually poorly organized and filed, but that is not the fault of the staff at UofM---they kept things as they received them], and is scattered among all the boxes.  Material ranges in dates from 1927 through the 1980's.  [Another researcher there said that these were the material from the PAA PR department, which may explain why I did not see a lot of internal memoranda or organizational stuff].

Be prepared to spend time and money at Miami.  I spent nearly three full days examining 77 boxes.  It costs $5/day to enter the Richter Library, $20/week.  The UofM is a private institution, and can get away with charging entrance fees.  Parking just outside the library [nowhere else to park, apparently] is $.50/hour.  Hours of operation are 9AM to 4PM.  The staff is extremely friendly, helpful, and willing to go out of its way to work with you.  The staff was one of the best I have encountered.  Copying charges are $.15/page, and they reference the files for you.

My purpose was to scout the PAA material for information regarding Fred Noonan, particularly dates of employment, age, middle name, etc.  During my perusal of material, it became clear that I may well have pulled wrong material and not have pulled the right material, due to the changing PAA organizational structure early on.  My recommendations are to first do a casual search through the archives, then dig deeper once the researcher has a better feeling for what to search for.

Specific facts regarding FJN:

The first mention of FJN is in the PAAWays magazine, the internal newsletter for employees.  In the issue dated Oct. 8, 1930, Noonan was transferred from Miami to Port au Prince to become Field Manager there.  [Field Manager is a step below the Station Manager, and as best as I could decipher, the position was strictly one of ground personnel, preparing paperwork, meteorological forecasts, helping passengers, mail, luggage, making sure the field was in shape, etc.] Port au Prince station began on 9 Jan 29...

June, 1932: "Friends of Mr. and Mrs. J. F. Noonan [sic] are glad to welcome them recently when they came to Miami for a vacation.  After a long stay in the islands, they were glad to get back to the States for a while.  Mr. Noonan is Airport Manager at Port au Prince"

March, 1933: W. G. Eldridge assigned Airport Manager at Port au Prince. [Hmm?what happened to Noonan?]

April, 1934: "Asst. Airport Manager Fred J. Noonan made an inspection trip to Santiago, Cuba during April." [Hmm?he got demoted it seems]

May/June, 1934: "Former Navy ace, Al Williams, sent a box of corn cob pipes to Fred J. Noonan after his trip from Miami to Port au Prince"

March 22-23, 1935: Noonan was navigator of PAA Clipper, NR823M over the Atlantic, test flight [In what follows, unless noted, Noonan is navigator]

March 27: Navigator on flight to Acapulco

3/29: in San Diego

3/30: San Diego to San Pedro and return

3/31: San Diego to San Francisco/Alameda

4/5 Alameda to Trinidad Head and return/test flight

4/9 to Los Angeles and return

4/10 to sea and return

4/15 to sea and return

4/16 Alameda to Honolulu on first transpacific clipper flight.  During this flight, he tool 1 LOP on the sun, 1 LOP on Polaris, 4 star fixes, 48 RDF's, and 336 data notations [I do not think he took the RDF's, but used them for navigational purposes.  The number of fixes matches well with the first AE flight which we have maps for showing Noonan's navigational skills]

4/19: Honolulu to sea and back

4/22: Honolulu to Alameda.  Here, Noonan took 5 sun LOP's, 6 star fixes, 48 RDF's, and 364 data notations.

5/15: Alameda to Farallons and return

5/18: Alameda to sea to test drift bombs [these are wind drift bombs using aluminum powder.  No notations as to who was aboard this flight]

5/21: Alameda to sea to test drift bombs

5/29: Alameda to sea and return

6/1: Same

6/3: Same

6/8: Same

6/9: Same

6/12-13: Alameda to Honolulu

6/15: Honolulu to Midway

6/17: Midway to Honolulu

6/21-22: Honolulu to Alameda

7/15: Alameda to sea and return

7/17: Same.  Noonan now navigational instructor

7/23: Same.  Noonan navigator

7/24: Alameda to San Diego

7/25: San Diego to San Pedro to Alameda

7/27: Alameda to sea and return; Noonan Navigational instructor

8/1: Same; Same

8/2: Same, Same

8/5: Same, Same

8/9-10: Alameda to Honolulu, Noonan navigator

8/13: Honolulu to Midway

8/16-17: Midway to Wake

8/21: Wake to Midway

8/22: Midway to Honolulu

8/28-29: Honolulu to Alameda

9/26: Alameda to sea and return

9/27: Same

9/30: Same, but Noonan not on flight

10/1: Same, Same

10/4: Same, Noonan navigator

10/5-6: Alameda to Honolulu

10/10: Honolulu to Midway

10/11: Midway to Wake

10/13: Wake to Guam

10/16: Guam to Wake

10/18: Wake to Midway

10/19: Midway to Honolulu

10/24: Honolulu to Alameda

11/7: Alameda to sea and return; Noonan not aboard

11/13: Same, Noonan instructor

11/14: Same, Same

11/25: Same, Noonan not aboard

On China Clipper, NC14716:

12/2-6/35: Manila to Alameda [log book of China Clipper missing early entries of Alameda outbound]

12/19: Alameda to sea and return

12/22: Alameda to Honolulu

12/23: Honolulu to Alameda

12/26: Alameda to sea and return

12/26: Same

12/27: Same

1/5/36: Alameda to Honolulu flight aboard Philippine Clipper:

1/12: Alameda to sea; Noonan fifth officer [at about this point, the navigational position reverted to officer positions in log books]

1/27: Same; same

1/29: Same;same

Back to China Clipper:

2/7: Alameda to sea and return

2/13: Alameda to Honolulu aborted

2/16: Alameda tests

2/22-3/9: Alameda to Manila and return

3/18-19: Alameda to Honolulu.  Noonan gets off flight and another navigator continues to Manila and returns to Honolulu.  [Apparently, Noonan takes planned vacation, as normally there would not be a relief navigator in Hawaii]

4/3-4: Noonan reboards plane as navigator, Honolulu to Alameda

4/12: Alameda tests

4/17-30: Alameda to Manila and return

6/28: Alameda tests

Hawaiian Clipper:

7/27: Alameda tests

7/29-8/11: Alameda to Manila and return

On China Clipper:

8/24: Alameda tests

8/26-9/11: Alameda to Manila and return

On Hawaiian Clipper:

1020: Navigational instructor: Alameda tests

10/21-11/4: Alameda to Manila and return

On Philippine Clipper:

11/21: 5th officer, Alameda tests

11/22-12/7: Alameda to Manila and return.  Noonan navigator

March, 1937: "Frederick Noonan, formerly navigation instructor in the Pacific Division, who made many of the early pioneering flights across the Pacific while that ocean airway was in course of organization, and who is now retired, was engaged to serve as Miss Earhart's navigator to Howland Island in mid-Pacific"

The last entry I could find for Noonan being a part of PAA: December 7, 1936.

Musick and FJN were assigned temporarily to Alameda base in early 1935, although they might be returned to company duty at Miami later [dated May/June, 1935??]

[There are a few anecdotes about Noonan and Musick.  Musick was always worried about Fred's inability to show up before events, and the first words out of his mouth were Has anyone seen Fred?  It got so bad, that Musick roomed with FJN so that he could keep better tabs on him.  A great story was told that one of the Clippers was ready to leave, but FJN was nowhere to be found.  A taxi rushes onto the dock, FJN gets out, and while walking to the plane, walks off the dock, becoming drenched.  When asked, FJN said there was a shadow that looked like the dock.  Rafford was an employee of PAA, as was Donohue, and they wrote a book on AE and FN that is probably one of the worst around.  Rafford states that PAA fired FJN because of alcoholism, and that he carried a huge briefcase with him aboard, and often went back to the lavatory with his suitcase.  The obvious implication is that it was filled with alcohol.  Other old-times mentioned that FJN was full of cheer, but that his alcohol habits did not affect his work.]

A PAA old-time navigator/officer, Canady, suggested in a speech in the [50's] that implies that FJN resigned from PAA to accompany AE.

There are numerous photos of FJN, almost all with the rest of the Clipper crew.  One sole photograph not previously seen before was of him working over the navigational bench plotting up fixes.  There is a manual nearby, but I could not readily determine what it was.  I have ordered a copy of this photo, and will forward it to TIGHAR.

Noonan wrote a press release [upon arrival in Manila], and I marked it for copying but it somehow never got copied.  I do not have a reference location for it.  [Drats!  I have a copy of another document that I did not ask for: box 118 Planes - Martin Clipper M-130, 1934-1965 which I think is the right reference.]

Miscellaneous Notes:

The S-42 Clippers did have RDF's aboard, and there is good information on the PAA RDFs at Honolulu, Wake, and Midway, along with the rest of their radio equipment.  There is some general information about navigational procedures [copied], and a 7 page draft of "Making the Landfall" by FJN , dated 10/3/35 for Trans-Pacific Air Navigation [?].  In it, he refers to navigational accuracy of 10 minutes, but in this case it is in time relative to predicted fly-over of Matson ships relative to actual overflights.  I will forward a copy of this document to TIGHAR for their reference.  There exists the original log books of the four original clippers, along with two books of Eddie Musick's scrapbooks, which contain mostly newspaper clippings.  I found a photo of the first Mrs. Noonan in one of them.

I did not find any information as to FJN's middle initial, his age, place of birth, when employed by PAA, etc.  I did not find the original PAA station logs for AE's disappearance, but did find a press release stating that the secretary for Angus kept the carbons for herself, and Joe Klass and Joseph Gervais [sigh] did get copies.

The biggest mistake I made was not looking in the Alaska Division, which was re-organized into the Pacific Division early in 1935, and may contain more information on Noonan and his re-assignment to Alameda.  This mistake was caused by not understanding enough of the early PAA organizational structures, and is provided to future researchers.

The big question I have is how did a member of the ground personnel in Port au Prince, which was clearly a low-level airport, suddenly find himself within 9 months of navigating the class act of the company?  [We suspect that FJN had good navigational skills from his time as a mariner, yet that was at least five years previously and probably a good deal more.  Once navigator, it was clear that he was instructing others on the job.  I found no information as to classroom training.]

PAA's flight structure was such that each pilot/officer was knowledgeable and cross-trained in all aspects of flying, including navigation.  Navigators were only used on the Clippers, and as time progressed, that function usually was taken up by a junior officer, and not a devoted navigator.  [Based upon the level of navigational fixes needed, any one of the four or five officers could perform that routine duty, typically once every two hours or so.  I suspect PAA went to this system to save on personnel costs. Nevertheless, FJN was quite active in cross-Pacific navigation until December, 1936.]  Noonan's time aboard ship was noted as unusual: he never took a rest period, whereas all other crew members did.  [This suggests to me a strong dedication to his work, and somewhat of an unwillingness to let others do his work.]
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 May 1998 09:58:29 EDT
From:        Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Fred's fall in Honolulu

I wonder whether Noonan's bathroom fall was from a previous Honolulu visit when he was with PAA navigating the Clippers.  There was one incident when he did not take the plane to Manila from Honolulu but went back aboard when it returned to continue to Alameda.  On the other hand, that time may have been a planned vacation.

**************************************************************

From Ric

Betcha you're right.  There is newsreel film of Fred and AE and Harry aboard Malolo upon departure for the trip home.  Fred looks fine.  No swelling. No nothin'.

The fall had to have been on a different trip.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 May 1998 10:03:35 EDT
From:        Don Jordan
Subject:      Fred's demeanor

I have a 8X10 B/W of Fred and Mary,  true it is a studio portrait, but I don't think it has ever been published.

It shows Fred next to Mary.  She was beautiful and he is very handsome.  At least no physical sign of a problem.  He has a little smile  as if to say "Look what I got"...

Don
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 May 1998 10:05:50 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      unknown book

Ric: have you or any forum members seen a book titled: A Spot on Earth: The Final Resting Place of Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan. Author: Wallace R. Spencer. Publisher is abbreviated: "Amelia Earhart Res Con Pr". Publ. date 3/19/98. 350 pages. I checked Dick Strippel's extensive bibliography in Air Classics and didn't find it there.

Ron 2126

**************************************************************

From Ric

Whew!  Sounds like a winner.  Anybody heard of this?
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 May 1998 10:07:37 EDT
From:        Al
Subject:      radio reception

I was on Kanton 12=45 to 5-46 and had a little 1940's model table radio that I kept in my room in the old Pan Am building.

I could pick up Honolulu broadcast stations most any time of the day. Could also pick up Sidney Australia but very late at night I could pick up KSL Salt Lake City, Utah.

I was a Navy Radioman and my 50 watt transmitter had a very limited range with voice, but with Morse code on CW  I could reach Honolulu with the right antenna .

Have seen much discussion recently about the radio and thought I would muddy the water a little more!

Al
**************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Al.  Muddy water is the only kind we got.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 May 1998 10:09:03 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      KGMB freq.

Randy Jacobson wrote:

>KGMB at the time broadcast at 590kHz at 1000 watts.  By 1939, upgraded to 5kW
>and 1320 kHz and 590 kHz.

Thanks, Randy!  It's not much power but it's sure in the range where the loop antenna would work.  I take it that there is no indication of any broadcast in the shortwave bands, like on 12 mHz.  So... It appears no credibility is to be found in the newspaper account of Mr. Tippin's hearing the broadcast on the frequency stated (12,000 kc) and presumably none in the rest of the story.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 16 May 1998 10:11:03 EDT
From:        Bob Brown
Subject:      Noonan/alcohol

I have hesitated for months to send this as I am opposed to fact by rumor.  I only report that I had a converstation a couple of years ago with a Pan Am mechanic who worked on the clippers while they were in
their glory.  We talked of Mr. Noonan and he spoke of his alcohol problem as if it were an accepted fact.

--
                Bob Brown in West Palm Beach,  Florida
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 May 1998 09:10:00 EDT
From:        Ron Brown
Subject:      unknown book

Publish date on book should have read 3/19/91. Sorry.

Ron 2126
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 May 1998 09:21:14 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      Trashing Fred

>The motion picture film of the Lae departure shows a bouncy, cheerful Fred
>Noonan helping Amelia up onto the Electra's wing.  He enters through the
>cockpit hatch, followed by AE.  The scene described by Balfour and Loomis
>never happened.

Ric,  Just out of curiosity... Who filmed the Lae departure?

In Fred's defense...  Some time back there was a reference here to someone who had made the rounds of the bars with Fred before the departure from Lae. This person was quoted as having said that although he was drinking (booze), Fred did not drink at all (no booze at any rate).  Is this a credible account?

And one more...  Again, some time back, there was some speculation about that, "Crew unfit" message from AE.  As was suggested, I think it is very possible, perhaps even likely, that AE referred to herself -- not to Fred being hung-over. In that day, she would probably have been as cryptic in referring to a problem "period" she was experiencing.

Much has been made of that message being a reference Fred being unfit to fly.  It seems not to have occurred to any writer of books that AE was subject to having "unfit" days.  Aside from just not feeling up to it, the prospect of hours in that plane on a "heavy day" is not a thing to to look forward to.

*************************************************************

From Ric

We're not sure who took the last take-off film, but it does seem to be authentic.

The anecdotal account about Fred not drinking was told to me personally by Francis "Fuzz" Furman who was with Fred in Bandoeng, Java.  Is it true?  Like any anecdote, take it for what it's worth.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 May 1998 14:36:04 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      unknown book - known author

from the electronic version of Books In Print.
-
Author: Spencer, Wallace R.
Title: A Spot on Earth: The Final Resting Place of Amelia Earhart & Fred Noonan
Subjects: EARHART, AMELIA, 1898-1937
New to BIP: 1990/07
Pub. Date: 031991
Price: Trade Cloth (Write/Call Publisher for information)
ISBN: 1-878510-44-4
Publisher: Amelia Earhart Res Con Pr
Pagination: 350p.
Status: Active Record
Notes: Illustrated
***************************************************************
From Ric

Okay.  Got it.  I didn't know he ever put out a book, but I know who the author is.

Back in 1989 (August 21st to be exact) I was contacted by Mr. Spencer ("Spence") who told me that he had been a private in the Marine Corps during WWII.  He said that in early 1944 he had been assigned to guard a recently captured airfield at Majuro Atoll in the Marshalls.  From his guard tower near the beach he could see the wreckage of an airplane just offshore.  Saw it every day for months.  After the war he compared his memory of the wreck with photos of Earhart's plane and (son of a gun!) realized it was the same airplane.  Spence was adamant that he knew right where to go back and look if someone would just believe him.  I fear that I was a terrible disappointent to him.

I suspect that the publisher translates to "the Amelia Earhart Research Consortium Press."  The now-defunct Amelia Earhart Research Consortium was a loose association of Earhart researchers in the late 80s/early 90s.  We had a few conversations with them but were put off by what we saw as a pronounced absence of academic rigor.  As I recall, forum subscriber Barbara Wiley was involved with the group.  I wasn't aware that anything ever got published.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 May 1998 14:51:03 EDT
From:        Don Jordan
Subject:      The Real Fred Noonan

Lately so much time has been spend in this forum to trash Fred Noonan and to prove he was a drunkard.  Post after post comments on the possibility that he may have been an alcoholic.  We want to find a reason for him failing Amelia and causing her to die in the lonely South Pacific.

Perhaps this is because we know so little about him.  In Amelia's book "Last Flight" she speaks of him very little.  He was little more than the aid to the Sperry Auto Pilot.

Whether he did, or did not drink too much, is irrelevant and a small part of this mystery.  There were plenty of other reasons why that plane should have ended up as it did. (What ever that may be)

She had mixture control problems, instrument problems, fuel flow problems, radio problems and who knows what else.

Fred had a life before Amelia!  He had family and friends. A career with ups and downs.  He was a person, a man with a new wife whom he loved very much.  I think he, and Amelia, did the very best job they could, but it just wasn't in the cards.

After my recent discoveries, I have a different attitude toward Fred and I think too much time is being spent on the subject of alcohol!

If only we could know what he was thinking on the last trip.

 Maybe a new book..."Last Flight II" by Fred J. Noonan.

Let's stop blaming Fred for what happened and get on with the discovery process.

Don Jordan (2109)

***************************************************************

From Ric

The "recent discoveries" Don refers to are genuine and there are more to come. We hope to be able to release the new information soon.  We're really not trying to be all mysterious about this, but Don and I have been working together to get some original, never-before-published documents made public. So far, what we've learned is interesting but not earth shaking. It has been, and still is, a rather delicate and often frustrating process and we don't have everything yet.  Please bear with us.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 May 1998 15:16:37 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Fred's demeanor

Sounds like you got yourself a great photo there. Would it be possible for me to get a copy for possible inclusion in the book?

I will of course see to the copyright procedures and costs. And it would be nice to have another picture of a 'smiling Fred'!

Jackie
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 17 May 1998 15:19:07 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Amelia's kids

Thanks, Barbara.  If I were going to be in the vicinity of Downingtown I'd certainly stop in, but my son would probably object if I took his girlfriend. He, incidentally, actually IS interested in the search.  "It's a lot more interesting than most of the junk you do, Dad," says he.

Thanks for the invitation, and the point well taken.

Tom King
***************************************************************

From Ric

Besides, if there was a real archaeologist there nobody would pay any attention to me.
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 May 1998 09:29:44 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Re: The real Fred Noonan

I don't think anyone is trying to trash Fred. Speaking for myself as his would be biographer I am looking at his whole life and I assume that the other commentators on the Forum similarly have Fred's interests at heart. I personally have not seen any suggestions by any member since I came on the Forum that his drinking caused Amelia's death. I said myself at the very beginning that IF he had the problem it would not neccessarily have disabled him.

BUT I have to address the allegations in the interest of doing the man justice.It would be easy to write a sanitized version of Fred, I could have done so months ago and I have no doubt someone will in the not too distant future.

My account will be the REAL Fred Noonan....the boy from Illinois, the merchant  seaman, the man who was married to Josie Sullivan for TEN years the navigator, the man who was married to Mary Bea and the guy who happened to be in a plane with a woman called Amelia Earhart.

Jackie Ferrari
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 May 1998 09:31:50 EDT
From:        Bob Sherman
Subject:      Noonan and drinking

Let me muddy the waters a little too!

A good friend of mine, Jim Cushman, deceased in 1986, was with Pan Am during the 20s and 30's and knew Fred Noonan.  Jim told me that he never heard of a Noonan drinking problem nor did he ever see Fred take a drink or see him drunk.

Jim was hired by PAA in 1929 and was transferred to the Pacific Division in 1935 to supervise the construction of the Pan Am Ground Radio Stations on the islands of Oahu, Midway, Wake, Guam, Philippines and Macao.  When the construction was completed, he went on flight as a Flight Radio Officer on Pacific routes.  Wouldn't it be nice if he were still around, and we could pick his brain?

Regards,

Bob
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 May 1998 09:36:56 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      RDF: 180 deg. ambiguity

I gotta pass this along!  I think it's pretty neat...

Bob Sherman described to me a sort of rule-of-thumb method of resolving the 180 degree ambiguity when working with a simple loop RDF.  It was new to me and probably will be to others who are not flying types.

            *********************************************

There was NO way to solve the 180 ambiguity except by tracking the changing null; either turning the aircraft with a fixed loop, or cranking the 'improved DF' (grin) to preferably put the null 'on a wing tip'.  Then get a change of 5 or 10 degrees. If the loop had to be rotated clockwise to keep the null, the station was on the right; ccw, station to the left.  As I recall, the time in seconds for a 10 degree change was the approx.. miles to the station. (No wind and stations within a 100 miles.or so).

            *********************************************

I think you can visualize what is happening.  It's really amounts to the same thing I had visualized as what tend to think of as "The Noonan Method" except the above packages it neatly into a rule-of-thumb sort of thing, and includes an estimate of distance to the transmitting station.  That would need to be adjusted to take into account the speed of the particular aircraft.

Actually, Amelia and Fred had no ambiguity problem.  Until near the end, they knew the Itasca was up ahead somewhere.  If they had started using the RDF on a frequency where the loop was functional while they were some distance out, either null would have been fine -- the Itasca was ahead, not behind.  They could have followed that null right on in.

The Noonan Method

We see that Fred had some familiarity with RDF from his time with PAA.  But he's also a nautical type navigator used to plotting stuff on charts.  If he didn't know his location relative to the transmitting station, I think he would have figured out something like this...

Get a null and plot that bearing (relative to your heading) as a RDF LOP. You and the transmitter are on that line somewhere.  Turn, either left or right. about 90 degrees from that LOP.  (Putting the null on a wing-tip!) Now fly that heading until you have a definite new RDF LOP.  Plot that LOP on the chart.  The transmitter is where the two LOPs intersect.  So, now you simply fly that last LOP to the transmitter.

Clearly, for a given aircraft speed, the closer you are to the transmitter, the more rapidly the null bearing will change (The basis for the distance estimate using the rule-of-thumb method.)  If it should happen that the first null was already on a wing-tip (you're flying past the transmitter), maintain that heading until you get enough change in RDF bearing to plot a new LOP.  You've passed the transmitter and have to fly the new LOP back to it.  As before, the intersection of the LOPs tells you which way to fly.
=========================================================
Date:         Mon, 18 May 1998 09:40:59 EDT
From:        Don Jordan
Subject:      Re: Fred's demeanor

Jackie wrote:

> Sounds like you got yourself a great photo there. Would it be possible for me
> to get a copy for possible inclusion in the book?
>
> I will of course see to the copyright procedures and costs. And it would be
> nice to have another picture of a 'smiling Fred'!

Jackie...I would love to, but I can't release it just yet.  It is part of the "Recent discoveries" I was referring to.  I have a Xerox copy of it and the owner of the original is hesitant.  It is going to take a few weeks before I can get everything.  Once I get all there is, and find out what new information there is, then I will approach the owner about releasing everything.

I will be in touch.

Don Jordan  (2109)
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 May 1998 09:11:09 EDT
From:        Bob Sherman
Subject:      50 years of non-use

RE:  The 'formula' I gave Vern for DF orientation should have read:

The number of seconds for a 10 degree wing tip null change, divided by 10, is the approx. MINUTES the plane is from the station. (uses 60 in place of the 57.3 radian)   Considering all the variables it worked well, fit all planes at all speeds & did not require a pencil.. It also gave a 'pilots fix'; approx. miles out on the last bearing. ...as opposed to a navigators fix using a plotter, map, pencil, etc.

Pilots of 1937 were not without the tools to find a one mile island, but (for either) to use a DF loop, one needed to have a signal on a freq. that could be used by the loop!  The coordination of what 'they had' & what 'she had', was at the heart of the tragedy.  RC 941
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 May 1998 09:21:21 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Blazing No Landers

Ok, here is a break from Noonan and the bottle..........

John Clauss wrote:

>We have tended to rule out about half the lagoon as too shallow to hide an Electra.
>
>>During the War PBYs flew supply missions to Gardner, overflew and landed in
>>these protected waters.
>>Demolition work was done to clear coral heads for a landing zone.  There
>>has also been survey work and minerals exploration that involved taking
>>bottom core samples.  Add in the boat traffic and a lot of people have been
>>up and down that body of water.

Sherwin Beck wrote:

>If you keep pushing on these folks, they may refund your membership!
>
>So now we have demolition work in the lagoon and routine PBY flights to
>Gardner and no flight or work crew reported seeing an Electra 10E or parts
>thereof ?! Give me a break!!

***************************************************************

From Ric

A.  We never refund ANYONE'S membership.
B.  If it's hidden in the darn bushes it's hidden in the darn bushes and it doesn't matter how many coral heads you blow up or how many PBYs you fly overhead.

***************************************************************

From Mike

Sherwin,

I think someone would have noted the Electra sitting at Gardner International Airport (GIA).

As for the "Electra in the bush" argument, there were up to 150 bored Coasties on Gardner doing what guys do best in the bushes, yet nyet Electra.

Mike

****************************************************************

From Ric

I give up.  Anyone else want to try and get across to these guys what we know did and didn't happen on Gardner?
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 May 1998 09:28:29 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Gardner International Airport (GIA)

What is the latest on 2-2-V-1?

If not from the Electra, now we have four planes and counting at GIA: B-24, B-25, Electra & Plane that provided 2-2-V-1, which apparently has skin that resembles an Electra.

If its not from the Canton Lockheed PV-1, Constellation, or other Sydney or Canton plane previously discussed, then either we have have a plane down we don't know about on or near Niku (which could supply skeletons) or GIA received a wider variety of aircraft parts than originally thought.

Mike
***************************************************************

From Ric

The latest on 2-2-V-1 is that it does not seem to be from the specific spot on the Electra that we had theorized it may be from.  (Big article in new TIGHAR Tracks to be mailed to members this week.) That does not mean that its not from some other spot on the Electra.  We have several known B-24 parts on Gardner.  We have no B-25 parts.  We have no parts known to be from an airplane other than a B-24 or a Lockheed 10.  We have no evidence to disprove the hypothesis that all airplane parts found on Gardner originate from two sources:

1. Earhart's Lockheed 10
2. A wartime B-24 wreck on Sydney
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 May 1998 09:33:39 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Project Book and Companion

Have you updated the Project Book and Companion yet?

Mike
*************************************************************

From Ric

As you'll see in the flyer that will accompany the new TIGHAR Tracks, the Project Book update is slated for completion by July 2 (can't think why we picked that date).  Instead of trying to update the printed Companion, we've undertaken (with the help of a major avioics manufacturer) to digitize the entire collection of documents and make them available via our website and, eventually, on a CD-ROM.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 May 1998 12:17:08 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Dem bones

What's the latest on the bones?

Mike
**************************************************************

From Ric

Still chasin' em.  Best guess at this point is that they stayed right in Fiji as part of the Central Medical School collection used in teaching anatomy until as late as 1991 when everything got cleaned out.  It's proving to be a bit difficult to get anyone in Fiji to talk about just how this cleaning out was accomplished.  Apparently a touchy subject.  We're working on it.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 May 1998 12:21:31 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      Radios and batteries

I know there has been considerable discussion regarding radios and batteries. Here are two contradictory views from post-loss news reports.

New York Times, 7/3/37: [Miss Earhart would still have the use of her radio if forced down at sea, but she would be restricted to the use of short-wave sending, it was explained last night by Donald R. Husted of the aviation communications department of the Western Electric Company, who arranged for the radio equipment installed on the Earhart airplane. Miss Earhart's plane, Mr. Husted said, was equipped with two antennae-a trailing wire arrangement (probably bit the dust)  which she could only use when flying and a fixed antenna on top of the ship which could be used both when flying and not in flight.  Mr. Husted gave two probable explanations why Miss Earhart had not been heard from for more than ten hours. Her batteries might be dead or she might be conserving them. The generator, Mr. Husted said, was installed to work with the engine; hence if the engine was not running, she would be forced to use her storage batteries. These she would have to use sparingly. The radio equipment on the airplane was for either voice or code sending. Code messages, Mr. Husted said, traveled longer distances and were preferable when static interfered. Mr Husted was of the opinion that only the navigator, Fred Noonan, was an efficient sender of code. The transmitter was a 50 watt instrument. The receiver was an all- wave one. Mr. Husted said that the airplane was equipped with a direction finder, but that he was not familiar with it, as he did not arrange for its installation.]

N.Y. Times, 7-7-37: AP San Francisco: [Authorities today agreed that radio messages could not originate from AE's plane unless it were on land. Builders of the Lockheed craft informed Coast Guard officials the radio equipment would not work if the plane were floating in the water. The plane had two 50-watt transmitters that could send in voice or code. George P. Putnam, husband of Miss Earhart, said he was convinced that the plane must be on land if messages were actually from her. "The planes batteries are under the wing and would immediately be incapacitated should the plane land on water."]

Question: Were there two types of batteries on board, flush-mounted under wing and also some portables?
***************************************************************

From Ric

As far as we know, there were two identical batteries aboard.  One was the standard Electra battery which was stowed in a flush-mounted compartment in the belly just forward of the main wing spar.  The other was stowed in the aft cabin on the starbord side just forward of the cabin door.  We know of no portables.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 May 1998 12:23:04 EDT
From:        David Kelly
Subject:      Earhart's popularity

Ric wrote:

>In looking back through the newspaper coverage, a few things are apparent:
>1.  There was very little coverage of AE's preparations for the second attempt
>until she got to Miami.  She planned it that way to avoid embarrassment if
>there were more problems with the airplane.
>2.  Coverage during the world flight was spotty at best.  AE's trip was not
>big news.
>3.  The disappearance, of course, was big news and dominated the headlines of
>many papers for about two weeks.

This was not unusual for that time....Bert Hinkler took off from Croydon UK on 7 Feb 1928 bound for Australia....the press did not catch up with him until he reached India....it is usually part modesty and part fear of failure and embarrasment.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 May 1998 12:24:16 EDT
From:        David Kelly
Subject:      Re: KGMB frequency

Randy Jacobson wrote:

>KGMB at the time broadcast at 590kHz at 1000 watts.  By 1939, upgraded to 5kW
>and 1320 kHz and 590 kHz.

Did KGMB have a secondary frequency to transmit from there studio to their primary transmitter?
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 19 May 1998 12:26:02 EDT
From:        Sandy Campbell
Subject:      Re: Blazing No Landers

>.....there were up to 150 bored
> Coasties on Gardner doing what guys do best in the bushes, yet nyet Electra.

Exactly....  And I doubt if they would have noticed a gorilla standing there either...

I bet you guys lose alot of socks in your drawers, too.

Sandy
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 08:33:24 EDT
From:        Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Radios and batteries

Ric wrote:-

>As far as we know, there were two identical batteries aboard.  One was the
>standard Electra battery which was stowed in a flush-mounted compartment in
>the belly just forward of the main wing spar.  The other was stowed in the aft
>cabin on the starbord side just forward of the cabin door.  We know of no
>portables.

Ric, do you know if this secondary battery in the rear was completely "plumbed in" for use as an alternative, or was it just stored there to possibly replace the main one if it went u/s.

If it was all wired up, the main battery would obviously have had to have been completely isolated by some "Battery - Main/Alternative" master switch in order for the rear battery to still be operative, as the salt water would instantly short out the main.


It occurred to me that an Electra floating in the water would probably float considerably nose down, leaving this second battery dry. In flight, the heavy engines are balanced by the moment of a lighter but much longer tail. If we assume that all the empty gas tanks are near the CG (in the wing and more or less between the wings in the Fuselage), then the engines are pure "lead weights" ahead of the CG when floating in water, whilst the rear fuselage probably would offer some bouyancy.

Do you have any details about that other Electra that ditched - it was mentioned in postings a while back?

LTM
Simon Ellwood
***************************************************************

From Ric

From the photos it looks like the aux battery was "plumbed in" but the only good photos date from before the first attempt.

I would certainly agree that the airplane would float very nose-down.  The newspaper article we have describing the August 27, 1967 ditching and sinking of a Provincetown-Boston Airways Electra includes no photo.  The pilot supposedly made "a fine crash landing" and everybody got out without injury. The plane sank in "about eight minutes."
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 09:04:59 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Socks, Gorillas & Electras

>And I doubt if they would have noticed a gorilla standing
>there either...
>
>I bet you guys lose alot of socks in your drawers, too.

Socks & Gorillas, maybe gorillas wear socks on Niku (and ate Fred and Amelia).

Whatever.

Bottom line: hundreds of people have ventured across that island and no Electra.

**************************************************************

From Ric

No Electra?

How about the islander who told PBY pilot John Mims in 1944 or '45 that the aircraft control cable he was using as a heavy-duty fishing line leader had come from an airplane that was on the island when the first settlers got there in 1938?

How about Pulekai Songivalu who saw airplane wreckage on the lagoon shore across from the main passage in the mid-1950s?

How about Tapania Taiki who saw an airplane wreck in the treeline along the Nutiran shore in the late 1950s?

Sure.  These are anecdotes which, like all anecdotes, may or may not be true. But your point seems to be that nobody claims to have seen an airplane on Niku, and that is not the case.

What can be said is that of the hundreds of people who have ventured across that island, none has come upon the Electra and reported it to someone who realized its possible importance and subsequently reported it to authorities who then did a follow-up investigation and solved the mystery of Amelia Earhart's disappearance.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 09:12:35 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      B-25 parts

Has 2-2-V-1 been eliminated as a possible B-25 part?

Although you have not yet found B-25 parts, Zehms claims B-25 parts made it to Niku.

Mike
***************************************************************
From Ric

2-2-V-1 does not fit anywhere on the several B-25s we have examined.  I've not yet seen documentation that B-25s came through Canton, although its possible that they did.  I have seen no evidence of any B-25 lost at Canton.  The aluminum Zehm's describes were small sheet pieces he attributed to a B-25 but did not obtain himself.  The Coasties were going to cut them up for watch bands but it proved to be an impractical idea.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 09:13:55 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      Tippin and post loss carrier wave signals

>So... It appears no
>credibility is to be found in the newspaper account of Mr. Tippin's hearing
>the broadcast on the frequency stated (12,000 kc) and presumably none in the
>rest of the story.

I did check with some "old-timers" and Mr. Tippin's local credibility apears to be rock solid. This is not to say he couldn't have been mistaken or even misquoted by the paper. The son is a well known local dentist and recalls Dad's passion for accuracy, but was unable to locate his radio logs, which were probably discarded.

Ron D 2126
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 09:48:07 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Re: Radios and batteries

The excellent journalistic find by Ron Dawson certainly tends to lend even more credence to the theory of landing on the flat coral and eventually getting washed off after perhaps sending some faint messages which were only copied in fragments! As the water rose, even before wash-off occurred, it would have shorted out or salinized the batteries, thus ending the transmissions, which, if unrecharged battery power was the only power remaining, would have indeed gotten progressively fainter. The facts are beginning to possibly conform even more to the theory as more facts are accumulated! Definitely a good sign!--Gene
Dangelo :)
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 09:51:26 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Re: Blazing No Landers

Always remember what Marcia Clark said: "Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence!"--Keep up the good work!--Gene Dangelo :)

**************************************************************

From Ric

And as Marcia probably didn't say, "If the jury ain't convinced, ain't nobody convinced."
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 09:54:23 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Blazing No Landers III

Ric wrote:

>I give up.  Anyone else want to try and get across to these guys what we
>know did and didn't happen on Gardner?

We conceded sometime back that we are the No Land Club*, meaning we believe the possibility exists the aircraft is on Niku.

But we don't think its likely.

We carefully reviewed all the TIGHAR information we can get our hands on.

Let me try some analogies:

Will the Bulls be denied another championship?  Possible, but not likely.

Will Bill Gates go broke?  Possible, but not likely.

Will Borg win Wimbledon again?  Possible, but not likely.

Is the Electra on Niku?  Possible, but not likely.

Are parts of the Electra on Niku?

This is a different question.

As we saw with the Challenger and the movie "And the Sea Will Tell" (where a trunk of body parts washed ashore on Palmyra 10 years after someone dumped it offshore),  there is a strong possibility Electra pieces have washed ashore.

We would like to see a video of Niku at some point.

Love to Mother,

Mike
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 09:58:36 EDT
From:        Russ Matthews
Subject:      USS Yorktown found

I know this is off topic, but several members have expressed interest in Dr. Robert Ballard's recent efforts to locate the carriers lost in the battle of Midway.  The wreck of the USS Yorktown (CV-5) was located and identified this morning (May 19) in 16,650 feet of water.

  For more information, you can visit the expedition web site at

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/98/midway/

  I now return you to the Earhart Forum already in progress...

***************************************************************
From Ric

There's lesson here.  Maybe for our next project we should try to discover the wreck of the Hindenburg.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 20 May 1998 10:28:21 EDT
From:        Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Noonan myth?

I just checked Paul Briand's 1960 book "Daughter of the Sky" and there is no mention of Fred having a drinking problem.  Briand was the first of the conspiracy authors.  He thought that AE may have just screwed up and flown to Saipan instead of Howland (duh).  Point is, his research turned up no allegations of Fred and alcohol.

So far I have not been able to find even an anecdotal account of Fred and drinking that pre-dates Fred Goerner's 1966 best seller "The Search for Amelia Earhart."  Later books about Pan American and Fred's role as star navigator include no boozing allegations, despite many interviews with his contemporaries.

From what I can see, Fred Noonan as an alcoholic seems to exist only as part of the Earhart myth.  Most of us reject Goerner's other anecdotal fantasies about covert U.S. government involvement in the world flight and nefarious Japanese goings-on.  Why on earth we give any credence at all to what appears to be long-after-the-fact slander is beyond me.  Until someone can come up with something genuine to the contrary, my position on Fred's drinking is that I'll drink to him any day.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 May 1998 09:08:26 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Socks, Gorillas & Electras

No, no, Mike; the CRABS ate Amelia, and they all wear socks on their eye- stalks; otherwise they would certainly have reported finding the Electra.

Look, there's no question the Electra may not be there; there's no question that it might have NEVER been there.  But the fact that nobody reported it in an unambiguous way is no reason to jump to that conclusion.  Most of the people who spent time on the island were not native speakers of English, and most of the time they had no one to report it to.  Moreover, they had little or no motivation.  The Gilbertese didn't know Earhart from Eve, nor an Electra from an alligator, and were a whole lot more interested in figuring out how to make a go of the colony than in exploring for plane wrecks.  The Coasties certainly knew who Amelia was, and some of them may have had an interest in finding her, but there's no evidence that they wandered very far over the island and no reason whatever to think that they gave the place a concerted look.

Love to Mother
Tom King
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 May 1998 09:16:48 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Re: Blazing No Landers III

I wonder if the Landers and No Landers aren't splitting a rather fine hair. Nobody expects to find the Electra sitting around under a palm tree twiddling its props; the most we can hope for are pieces.  Can somebody clarify what this argument is about?

Love to M.
TKing

***************************************************************

From Ric

As best I can figure, the argument is about whether or not we should spend time, energy, blood, sweat and tears searching on land for the Electra (or pieces thereof) next time out.  If I was a potential financial contributor to the project I would be interested in knowing how the contributees intended to spend my money.  In that respect, its a legitimate subject for public discussion.

If the Blazing No Landers are offering to fund a water-only search we'll gladly promise not to spend a nickle of their money looking in the bushes.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 May 1998 09:22:30 EDT
From:        John Clauss
Subject:      Socks, Gorillas?

You are visualizing Niku as too small and too simple of an environment. Ninety five percent of the activity you have noted is confined to less than a third of the land mass.  The only group besides Tighar that should have a feel for the "outback" areas would be the colonists.  Granted we have little from them regarding a plane or parts hidden in the bush.  But we also have next to nothing from them regarding anything else to do with the island.  Most all the information  we have comes from westerners.  If they don't know about it, it didn't get passed on in a way that we have been able to access.  There are large blocks of time when there was no western oversight of the colony.

Yes there were a number of overflights of the island by PBY's.  They were generally flying in, landing and departing.  If you have ever flown over densely forested areas, at fairly low altitude, at around a hundred miles an hour you will note that it is difficult to pick out details in the vegetation.  Pilots have a lot to be concerned about (wind & water conditions, coral heads and birds) when close to the island and wouldn't be casually looking around.  Our feeling is that no one has taken a good low speed look at Niku from a couple hundred feet up.  This is one of the justifications for the ultralight and should generate  new information and give us another perspective of the island.

It is not difficult at all to conceive of larger portions of the Electra still being hidden or grown over by the foliage.  There are numerous stories of airplanes close to major metropolitan areas that lay undiscovered or ignored for decades.  Several years ago Tighar did a survey of a Martin B-10 that crashed well before WW II and has gradually rotted away and been ignored.  This doesn't mean that people didn't know  it was there: no body cared.   The Martin is located in the San Francisco Bay Area within 20 miles of the Golden Gate Bridge.  Go figure, and tell me about lost airplane parts in a veritable jungle a quarter of the way around the world.

By the way I am one of that can't keep a pair of socks together for more than a day at a time.

John Clauss
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 May 1998 10:04:11 EDT
From:        Tom King
Subject:      Hoaxers and Kiwis

Let me throw another couple of ideas into the forum.

1. How about trying to rigorously test the hypothesis that the post-loss signals traced to the Niku vicinity WERE hoaxes.  We think we know of all the "official" possible sources of such signals, and they don't work out, but what do we know about, say, wandering yachties in the area?  Is there a way to find
out if anybody was sailing around in the neighborhood for recreation, or for some other non-official reason?

2. And what about the Kiwis?  It's thought-provoking that neither Maude nor Bevington seem to have known (or at least, can remember knowing) about the New Zealand survey party, which manifestly knew of Maude.  And Maude's latest letter seems to suggest a degree of competition between the Kiwis and the Brits back in the '30s.  Is it possible there was an earlier NZ scouting party in the area, with a radio?  We certainly need to get more data on the New Zealand connection; any TIGHARS stalking around in that part of the ocean?

Tom King

**************************************************************

From Ric

Interesting ideas.  Philosophically, it is impossible to prove that the post-loss signals are not hoaxes or misunderstandings (you can't prove a negative hypothesis).  It is, however, at least theoretically possible to prove that they ARE all hoaxes or misunderstandings.  To do that you would have to locate a more credible alternative source for each of the alleged post-loss messages. That sounds daunting, but realistically all it would take would be one yachty in the right place with a good radio and warped sense of humor.  So how do we go about investigating that possibility?  Ideas anyone?

As for Harry Maude and his insistence that the New Zealand survey party wasn't there when he was there in December 1938:

First of all, they were indeed there unless their reports have been falsified. (That's it!  A conspiracy!)
According to the official report filed from Suva on March 28, 1939, the ship which dropped off the survey party on December 1st left the island on December 6th, 1938.  Quoting from that report:

"On the 21st December the Gilbert and Ellice Islands Administration's vessel 'Niminoa' with Messrs. Maude and Gallagher and a party of colonists for Gardner,  Hull and Sydney Islands arrived and a pioneering party of 10 adult males was left on Gardner Island to inaugurate the settlement scheme."

That is exactly correct.  Among the photos taken by the survey team is a snapshot of eight of the Gilbertese workers and another shot of Jack Kima Petro (aka Pedro) and yet another shot of Koata.  Perhaps significantly, there is no shot of the Nimanoa nor is there a picture of either Maude or Gallagher. Could it be that at the time the Nimanoa arrived, the survey party was on another part of the island?  There's no ship there when Maude and company arrive and no one in evidence.  Maude, Gallagher and the ship only stay a couple of days and then leave.  When the Kiwis return to camp they're surprised to find they have company.  Jack tells them what's going on and they include that information in their report.

Maude, meanwhile, has no idea that the the New Zealanders were there and yet that part of the island where they camped is named Nutiran (pronounced in Gilbertese NewZEEran) by the workers.

As for a possible New Zealand radio source for the post-loss messages, that seems unlikely.  We know that the New Zealand cruiser HMNZS Achilles was in the neighborhood (within a few hundred miles) of the Phoenix Group at the time of the Earhart disappearance and, in fact, reported some of the suspected post-loss messages.  Sure seems like they would have known if any of their compatriots were in the area with a radio.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 May 1998 10:20:13 EDT
From:        Tierney
Subject:      Hindenburg

No Ric--- WE know where the Hindenburg is--in Lakehurst, NJ!!!!!! We should look for the remains of the AKRON and MACON.......
Jim Tierney

***************************************************************

From Ric

My point exactly.  We also know where the AKRON and MACON are, and they have been located on the ocean floor, photos taken of the wreckage, etc.  (Yup. There's a wrecked dirgible down there.)  An amazingly intact Curtiss Sparrowhawk fighter is actually sitting beside the wreckage of the MACON but it has been judged to be way too delicate to try to raise.  Nothing much was learned from these rather expensive exercises and nothing much would be learned from sniffing around Lakehurst to maybe find a stray unrecovered bit of the Hindenburg.

In some cases, as in that of the Lusitania, there may be a valid historical investigative reason for searching out and examining the wreck.  In most cases however (Titanic, Bismarck, Yorktown, etc.) the historical benefit seems to be minimal and the whole exercise has much more the flavor of morbid  fascination and entertainment.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 May 1998 10:30:53 EDT
From:        Mike
Subject:      Re: USS Yorktown found

This discovery certainly lends credibility to the possibility of finding Earhart's plane in such deep water (if you subscribe to Elgen Long's theory).

**************************************************************

From Ric

Gotta differ with you there.  Finding a humongous magnetically-responsive, steel aircraft carrier in a place where it is known that it went down is a very different kettle of fish (pun intended) from finding a teeny-tiny aluminum airplane which - assuming it went down at sea at all - could be anywhere in hundreds, if not thousands, of square miles of ocean.

If we had absolute proof tomorrow that Earhart's plane went into the drink, it would be absolute fantasy to think that it could be found with existing underwater search technology.  Elgen's narrowing of the purported ditching site to a few square miles is based upon highly speculative calculations which contradict the known facts surrounding the flight.  I'll bash the bushes on Niku any day.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 May 1998 10:32:15 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Re Noonan Myth?

I'm still 'out' on this one.

I too have spoken to,written to, PanAm ex - employees. Statements for and statements against.  I am therefore putting the bottle on the back burner just now and concentrating on other areas which will be more likely to yield 'hard copy.'

And I'll drink to Fred any day.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 21 May 1998 10:38:11 EDT
From:        Bob Sherman
Subject:      Re: Hindenburg

It was last seen at Linden NJ in May of 1937, less than two months before AE's last flight.  It was exceptionally hot that day in May at Linden, for a little while at least.  Back to the future.. What did Sheyla have to say about that cable??

Also noted that a Navion was found in Nevada the other day by a rancher, about 38 miles from Tonopah NV, about 8 miles from the main road. It was last seen on take off from Amelia* Reed airport in San Jose nearly a year ago.  Wreckage was strewn over 1.5 miles.  A number of steers said, yeah, we saw the mess but didn't know who to report it to.

About 40 years ago, or so, near Rhinelander Wisc. where we were vacationing in the north woods, a lumber jack investigated some yellow in the tree tops.  It was a J-3 that had been given up for lost 4 years earlier.       *  I'm sure that there is some connection.     RC

**************************************************************

From Ric

Sheyla has passed the cable investigation off to another Belden employee who is consulting with a retired Belden employee who supposedly knows a lot about old co-ax (sigh).  High science.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 10:07:48 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Re: Credibility

Bob wrote:

>I continue to be impressed with your objectivity.  If anything is a
>thread throughout this discussion it is your steadiness in holding that
>course.  That has certainly raised the credibility of your efforts to a
>very high level in my eyes.

RIC IS PERHAPS THE MOST NON-OBJECTIVE PERSON INVOLVED. HE REFUSES TO BELIEVE ANYONE ELSE IS ENTITLED TO HAVE AN OPINION.
**************************************************************

From Ric

Well Dick, I believe that you're entitled to have that opinion.

You might be amused to know that a TIGHAR member on the forum recently suggested that Dick Strippel is a character whom I have invented.  I had to tell him him that I am not nearly clever or imaginative (not to mention devious) enough to do that.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 10:11:05 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      post-loss signals

face it, gang- there was no post-loss communication AT ALL-EVER! COMMUNICATION MEANS :TWO-WAY. THERE WAS NONE AND THE SUPPOSED AE SIGNALS WERE EITHER MISINTERPRETATIONS OR HOAXES.  READ UP ON THEM AND YOU'LL AGREE. DON'T JUST FOLLOW RIC BLINDLY AND AGREE WITH EVERYTHING HE SAYS

-- DICK
***********************************************************

From Ric

If anyone out there is following me blindly, please stop.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 10:24:49 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      KGMB signals

there's no way earhart could have heard the kgmb "signals" AND A LITTLE THOUGHT WOULD PROVE IT.  WHY WOULD AMELIA TUNE HER RECVR OFF THE AERO CHANNELS TO AN ENTERTAINMENT STATION IN THE B.C. BAND???  ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE WAS NO PRE-ARRANGEMENT.  THE THOUGHT OF HER "ACCIDENTALLY RECEIVING" THE BDCST IS TOO OUTLANDISH TO EVEN CONSIDER.  NO, THE KGMB SIGNALS WERE PART OF A G.P. PUBLICITY SCAM. THE DIRTY BASTARD!!!

--THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE, GANG!!!!!
**************************************************************

From Ric

No one ever suggested that Earhart accidently received the KGMB signals.  That she may have tuned to a powerful, well-known news station to find out what steps were being taken to find her does not seem outlandish to me.  Your totally unfounded accusation that George Putnam was perpetrating a hoax is
tasteless and offensive.

--DICK
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 10:41:35 EDT
From:        Peter Ifland
Subject:      Inverting eyepiece

There are two kinds of telescopes used on sextants: erect and inverting. The erect telescope gives a true image - the star appears above the horizon, while the inverting telescope gives an upside-down image - the star appears below the horizon.  Sometimes it is easier and more accurate for the navigator to make the observation with an inverting telescope than with an erect one.

I suppose it might be possible to start a fire with a sextant telescope, either erect or inverting since both are magnifying just as a magnifying glass can concentrate the sun's rays and produce a spot hot enough to start a fire. However, it would take a very steady hand since the light gathering capacity of a sextant  telescope would be significantly less than that of even a small magnifying glass.  In a quick experiment on a bright, sunny afternoon on my back porch, I could easily start a fire on a newspaper with a 2 1/2 inch magnifying glass but couldn't even made smoke with a sextant telescope with a 1/2 inch objective lens.

LTM
Peter
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 11:09:37 EDT
From:        Roger Kelley
Subject:      B-10

How about more info on the B-10, 20 miles from San Fransico?

Roger Kelley
2112

**************************************************************

From Ric

Well, it's about as off-topic for the forum as you can get except that it is a case of TIGHAR researchers starting with rumor and ending up with an airplane. It's still there, out in San Pablo Bay sunk in the mud.  Pretty rough shape after all these years and the only way our team could get to it and document it was to pick the lowest tidal conditions of the year and use hovercraft to get out to it.  It's a B-10 that went down in 1936 after engine failure on approach to Hamilton Field after a practice bombing mission to what was then called Muroc Dry Lake (now Edwards AFB).  The wreck was not "lost."  People knew that there was an airplane out there, seen occasionally but not really investigated (sound familiar?) and generally assumed to be a B-25 or a Twin Beech.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 11:12:03 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Re: Blazing No Landers III

I guess I have a hard time figuring out how the heck you all are going to get through all that tough scaevola.

You guys have worked awful hard for 10 years hacking through the stuff.  I understand it to be tedious and difficult, to say the least.

Hopefully the recent photo enhancements will zero in on high probability zones to minimize physical effort.

I think we all wish the plane was sitting there somewhere.

As for funding, I did have a Powerball ticket, but, alas, no such luck.
LTM,

Mike
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 11:14:59 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Socks, gorillas

Ric, John, Tom:

I surrender.

LTM,

Mike
**************************************************************

From Ric

Sword graciously accepted.  You may keep your horse to use on the farm.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 11:22:25 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Mailed TIGHAR Tracks Yet?

Ric,

When are you mailing TIGHAR Tracks?

LTM,

Mike
***************************************************************

From Ric

TIGHAR Tracks Vol. 14, No. 1 was mailed First Class on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week.  You should have it today or tomorrow. As you originally suggested Mike, it includes an 11 x 17 inserted map of Nikumaroro (suitable for framing, wrapping fish or magneting to the refrigerator) with the location of all the known (so far) possible Earhart evidence noted.

All of you forum subsribers who have not yet joined TIGHAR are missing a good deal.  (he said hopefully)
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 11:53:42 EDT
From:        Ron Dawson
Subject:      Powered parachutes

Have you looked at powered parachutes in place of, or in addition to, the fixed wing ultralight for Niku IV?  I see a  number of advantages. For low and slow, you can't beat a P.P. - it flies at a constant airspeed of 26 mph. Visibility is excellent. Safety is superior to a fixed wing ultralight. Most fixed wings cruise at about 50 mph. If you get low and slow with a fixed wing, you are near your stall speed with no recovery altitude. That's not a problem with a P.P. It is almost unstallable and your recovery chute is already deployed  Any "wing" (chute) can be stalled, but with a P.P., you would really have to work at it. Portability is better, assembly time quicker. Any expedition member could be qualified in less than half a day to fly it. They are available in two-place as well. I would think one of the "big three" manufacturers, Buckeye, Six-Chuter, or Paraplane, would lend one to the expedition, just for the publicity. Disadvantage is you are restricted to wind conditions below 15 mph. However,  there should be a number of relatively calm days to fly. There is even a P.P. on amphibious floats coming out now. You
keep your chute inflated with prop wash while you taxi up on the beach.

Ron D. 2126
*************************************************************

From Ric

We considered powered parachutes and rejected them on two issues:

1. Speed.  It's not uncommon at all for the daily normal winds to meet or exceed 26 mph.
2.  Safety.  Floats have not been available in the past and any aircraft out there needs to be landable on water. (Just ask Amelia.)

We have a very good two-place ultralight on floats which we have specked out specifically for this mission.  We know how to fly airplanes and we're getting current in this one. Seems to make sense to proceed with the plan.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 11:57:49 EDT
From:        Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Master's licenses

This just in.  Sandy? Jerry? Ron?  Jackie? Somebody want to run with this ball?  Let's decide who's going to check it out so that we avoid duplication of effort.

From:   CHavern@comdt.uscg.mil (Havern, Christopher )
To:     tighar@aol.com ('tighar@aol.com')

Mr. Gillespie,

        For information regarding the licensing of captains and masters you should contact the National Maritime Center's Marine Personnel Branch. The address is:

                        USCG National Maritime Center
                        4200 Wilson Blvd., Suite 510
                        Arlington, VA  22203-1804
                        (703) 235-0018

Good luck with your research.

Chris Havern
USCG Historian's Office
(202)267-1394
chavern@comdt.uscg.mil
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 12:15:55 EDT
From:        Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Is Dick Strippel for real?
Ric wrote


>Well Dick, I believe that you're entitled to have that opinion.
>
>You might be amused to know that a TIGHAR member on the forum recently
>suggested that Dick Strippel is a character whom I have invented.  I had to
>tell him him that I am not nearly clever or imaginative (not to mention
>devious) enough to do that.

Ahhhh! but that's just what you'd be writing if you WERE clever enough!! Can't fool us !!

LTM
Simon
************************************************************

From Ric

Hmmmm.  Sounds like a credibility problem.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 22 May 1998 12:32:50 EDT
From:        Dean Alexander
Subject:      G.P. bashing

We've talked about not "bashing" Noonan because there are many conflicting stories about his alleged drinking problems. I think the same should apply to G.P.P. There are many credible stories about G.P. not being as bad as some have said. I can not form an accurate opinion of him because firstly I didn't know the man personally and secondly the people who knew him best seem to think he has been portrayed in a less than favorable light.  Dean A.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Good point Dean.  GP has often been portrayed as a Svengali who manipulated and pressured AE.  From what I have seen, AE and GP had a unique personal/business relationship that was mutually supportive and quite successful.  As a professional promoter, GP was probably rather pushy but there are plenty of stories that hold AE to have been pushy too.  Heck, I've been known to be pretty pushy myself.

We should, as you say, emulate Sgt. Joe Friday and stick to "Just the facts, ma'am."
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 09:22:40 EDT
From:        Amanda Dunham
Subject:      Re: KGMB signals

Ric wrote:

>No one ever suggested that Earhart accidently received the KGMB signals. That
>she may have tuned to a powerful, well-known news station to find out what
>steps were being taken to find her does not seem outlandish to me.  Your
>totally unfounded accusation that George Putnam was perpetrating a hoax is
>tasteless and offensive.

Hear, hear!  If I had been in Amelia's and Fred's situation (assuming that indeed WAS their situation) I'd have tuned in to a known station not just for information, but out of fear and homesickness.  AE and FN were both brave, but it must have helped enormously to hear something familiar. There are lots of possible reasons why she might have tuned in to KGMB.

And how do we know there was no pre-arrangement?  It could have been as simple and informal as:  "Honey, remember how I talked to you during the flight from Hawaii to Oakland in '35?  Well, if anything goes wrong, I'll see if I can try that again."

And speaking of thinking before we write:  why the f*****g h**l would George be wasting energy on publicity stunts in the middle of the biggest AE story ever?!?!  Usually, he tried to divert attention from AE's mishaps.

Ric, sorry if I've been following you blindly - you'll let me know if I bump into you?
Love to Mother,
Amanda
*************************************************************

From Ric

I'll let you know - but maybe not right away.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 09:42:12 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Sgt. Joe Friday

Sgt.Joe Friday??  I bet he didn't inspire a lot of biographies.

I doubt even the Bible would have been written if we 'just stuck to the facts' and I doubt Fred was even sticking to the facts about himself come to that!!
***************************************************************

From Ric

Therein lieth the tension betwen the biographer and the archaeologist. The biographer must begin with facts and interpret them to create an entertaining commentary on the person biographed (to coin a verb).
The archaeologist/investigator/searcher/knight errant/whacker-of-scaevola must gather what facts are available, use them to develop a hypothesis, go test the hypothesis, find out that it's wrong, go back and try to find more facts, modify the hypothesis, test it again, and so on and so on until - with sufficent luck and perseverance - the object sought is at last found. Come to think of it, maybe I'll become a biographer.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 09:48:58 EDT
From:        Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Is Dick Strippel for real?

I take it all back - I wrote the comments below as mildly humourous before I read Dicks last couple of posts.

I don't think you'd write such ill-inspired rubbish. The greatest measure of your own objectivity is posting all of this stuff even though some of it's not very complimentary. Shame Dick can't see this.

Simon

>Ahhhh! but that's just what you'd be writing if you WERE clever enough!!
>Can't fool us !!
>
>LTM
>Simon
>************************************************************
>
>From Ric
>
>Hmmmm.  Sounds like a credibility problem.
***************************************************************

From Ric

Actually Simon, I thank you for the original suggestion.   I much prefer Dick Strippel as a fictional character who symbolizes the problems that have plagued investigations of the Earhart disappearance for 61 years.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 09:51:41 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Re: Credibility

Ric didn't invent the No Land Club* either.

***************************************************************

From Ric

I think we should take this forum on the road as a replacement for Seinfeld.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 09:54:11 EDT
From:        Mike Ruiz
Subject:      TIGHAR Tracks

Got my TIGHAR Tracks today.

Another outstanding product.

TIGHAR does first class, world class work.

As a matter of fact, I think I will frame the map.

Please reserve my copy of the eighth edition of the Earhart Project, due to be released in July.

You have my credit card info.

Great job!

LTM,

Mike
***************************************************************

From Ric

Thank you.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 10:05:28 EDT
From:        Dustoff
Subject:      Ric bio?

As has been mentioned, you do hold this Forum together.  Your responses are always appropriate and well written, even esoteric at times.  Your comments also indicate you're probably an aviator (big plus right there) and that you've been in some pretty exotic places.  Since were all kinda' family here, (MOST OF US ANYWAY) how about sharing a bio/background write-up of where you've been, done, seen, education, qualifications, jailtime, (just joking), etc.    I, and probably the majority of the Forum, would be interested.  If you're not comfortable with a Forum posting as too off-topic, perhaps at the website?  Anyway, give it some thought.

Keep up the good work.

Best, Dustoff1
**************************************************************

From Ric

I won't pretend that I'm not flattered.  My qualifications, or lack of same, are of legitimate concern to anyone whose support TIGHAR solicits (i.e. everybody) and I'll be happy to provide a bio a a separate posting. And I didn't invent Dustoff 1 either!
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 10:46:51 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Re: B-10

Not to perpetuate the off-topicness(contrived word, I'm sure), but in the same vein, I can't resist this one, since it's local to me. In the 1940's or 50's, a B-25 Mitchell bomber was reputed to have ditched by night in the Monongahela River (or one of the three rivers: Ohio, Allegheny, or Mon) in Pittsburgh, Pa., and some clandestine (or so it was alleged) retrieval was supposed to have taken place forthwith. (So it apparently was with our equally local Kecksburg UFO in 1965, but that's another story...)Any truth to this? Just curious, and figured that if anyone would know, you would. Sorry to give in to temptation on being off topic, but since we were already there, I couldn't resist!--Thanks for your indulgence! --Gene Dangelo :)
**************************************************************
From Ric

Ah yes.  The Mysterious Monogahela Mitchell.  I have a file on it somewhere. Early 50s.  B-25 ditches in the river in the middle of the night.  In the morning - poof! - it's gone.  Not a trace.  Lots of government hush-hush. Rampant speculation that it was carrying nuclear material.  Very few facts. There are still people who want to search the bottom of the river.  I'm not one of them.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 11:33:25 EDT
From:        Mike
Subject:      Strippel

I haven't been participating in this forum for long, so I don't know if someone has already tried this, but.... can someone tell Dick Strippel to RELAX??

***************************************************************

From Ric

Several have tried.  You can see how successful they've been.  I post about half of Dick's submissions.  The other half are either unintelligible, or so insulting as to be abusive.  There are a couple of reasons why I don't just boot his butt off the forum.

1.  Back in 1972 during the height of the Earhart-as-spy nonsense, Dick StrippelI wrote a book entitled "Amelia Earhart, the Myth and the Reality" (Exposition Press, Jericho NY).  Coming on the heels of the Klaas/Gervais farce "Amelia Earhart Lives!" (McGraw Hill, 1970), Dick's book was a breath of fresh air.  He did sound research, tried to stick to the facts, and drew the conclusion that the flight probably went down at sea.  He deserves credit for the good work he did.  If, in later life, he has become embittered (or maybe he was always like that) I'd prefer to overlook as much of it as I can to include him in the discussion.

2.  I really don't want to censor the forum.  Challenges to TIGHAR's hypotheses and conclusions are some of the most valuable products of this forum.  Without them we are merely preaching to the converted.   However, I do think that's it's important to maintain a civilized, intelligent (I hope) tone.  I will post no personal insults unless they are directed at me.  I will post no profanity.  I will continue to post as much of Dick's stuff as I can.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 12:03:36 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      RE; sinus problems

SHE MAY HAVE BEEN PREGGERS, TOO.  IN THOSE DAZE THERE WERE VERY FEW SINUS MEDICATIONS-MOST RIPPED THE DAYLIGHTS OUT OF YOUR Nasal membranes

                              -- dick
**************************************************************

From Ric

As far as I know, the allegation that Earhart may have been pregnant comes entirely from the late Albert Bresnick who, as a very young photographer in 1937, was engaged by GP to take some publicity photos prior to the first world flight attempt.  In later life, Al Bresnick (like so many others) capitalized upon his brief contact with the late, great Earhart.  Marketing himself as Amelia Earhart's Personal Photographer, he sold prints from his original negs as collectors' items.  Nothing wrong with that.  But he couldn't stop there. He also alleged that he and AE were really tight and that she hinted to him that she might be pregnant.

Assuming, for the moment, that his story is true - the revelation must have come sometime before the first attempt (no Bresnick photo dates from later than early March 1937).  For AE to know that she was pregnant in early March she would have had to have conceived no later than, say, January.  That means that the very thin woman in the photos taken in Lae, New Guinea on July 2nd was six to seven months pregnant.  The many stories about stomach upsets which speculation has turned into morning sickness are, in fact, only two in number and have perfectly reasonable explanations provided by AE herself.

She was nauseated during the first part of the South Atlantic crossing on June 7th because over-filling of the fuel tanks had left the cabin reeking of gasoline.

A 21-course feast of rich Indonesian food (known as ryst tafel) in Batavia on June 26 caused AE to write in her notes "Perhaps best did not try to fly today.  Think will have recovered by tomorrow."  Quoted out of context, this passage has been cites as evidence of illness or pregnancy.  Neither interpretation seems justified.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 12:15:36 EDT
From:        Dan
Subject:      Re: B-10

Gene Dangelo wrote:

>Not to perpetuate the off-topicness(contrived word, I'm sure), but
>in the same vein, I can't resist this one, since it's local to me. In
>the 1940's or 50's, a B-25 Mitchell bomber was reputed to have ditched
>by night in the Monongahela River

I thought it was the Allegheny.  I was briefly acquainted with someone whose father bought the salvage rights.  He didn't find anything, and as far as I know, no one else ever did either.    Dan

**************************************************************
From Ric

That is my undertanding also.  We now rejoin our regularly scheduled forum...
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 12:26:46 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Re: Nikumaroro cruise

WHAT CAN YOU OFFER A CRUISE PACKAGER
**************************************************************

From Ric

Just the delights that we enjoy on the expeditions.  Boredom and seasickness, followed by tedium and disappointment in 120 degree heat.  On the other hand, the scenery is spectacular and the near-death experiences are world class.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 23 May 1998 12:29:02 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Re: What Devine saw.

I repeat-Devine wasn't on Saipan during the fighting!!!!!

**********************************************************

From Ric

Nobody said he was.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 May 1998 09:28:54 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: KGMB frequency

From Randy Jacobson

David Kelly wrote:

> Did KGMB have a secondary frequency to transmit from their studio to their
> primary transmitter?

I doubt it...it would be much easier to send it by wire directly!
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 May 1998 09:33:35 EDT
From:        Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Radio hoaxes

Tom King asked:

>How about trying to rigorously test the hypothesis that the post-loss
>signals traced to the Niku vicinity WERE hoaxes.  We think we know of all
>the "official" possible sources of such signals, and they don't work out, but
>what do we know about, say, wandering yachties in the area?  Is there a way to
>find out if anybody was sailing around in the neighborhood for recreation, or
>for some other non-official reason?

From the post-loss radio logs of the Itasca, we know of at least four radio call signals that cannot be identified.  Either they were "pirate" radio stations, or hoaxes.  One of them, QZD, was involved in the Achilles radio message sequence, where the Achilles believed the signals were from AE.  Unfortunately, the propagation distances for 3105 kHz are too large to provide much information as to where the signals were coming from.  Further, the sunspot activity was at its peak then, and radio signals can skip a looooong way!
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 May 1998 09:41:35 EDT
From:        Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Noonan Myth

There were a couple of speeches by PAA old-timers at the 50th anniversary of the Clipper Flights that talk about FJN and his drinking.  Canady (Carnday?) was one: he was trained by FJN as navigator and later became a pilot for PAA.

***************************************************************

From Ric Gillespie

That's Harry Canaday and the 50th anniversary of the clipper flights would have been in 1985.  That falls into the category of ancient anecdote.  I'm still looking for real evidence.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 May 1998 09:43:41 EDT
From:        Russ Matthews
Subject:      Re: Credibility

Dick Strippel writes:

>RIC...REFUSES TO BELIEVE ANYONE ELSE IS ENTITLED TO HAVE AN OPINION.

  It has been well established in earlier postings that everyone here is entitled to their opinions.  However, I hereby move that from now on any opinions expressed in the Earhart Forum must be accompanied by what I like to call a "reason" (for an example of this process take a look at all of Ric's entries).  Any seconds?

  Dick...I understand that you are a man of few, though LARGE, words - but we are not going to blindly accept what you have to say any more than Mr. Gillespie.  Simply telling us all to read the available material isn't enough to prove your case.  Read what?  Be specific.

  While it is important for us to continue challenging each other - let's just be sure to do it constructively.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 May 1998 09:47:43 EDT
From:        Russ Matthews
Subject:      Noonan Proj: Pensacola Ludolph

  I was reading the certification letter that accompanied the Pensacola Ludolph reproduced in the latest TIGHAR Tracks (another benefit of membership) and a question occured to me...has anyone attempted to track down the donor? He probably had a decent relationship with Fred to be entrusted with such a valuable instrument.  Of course, if the man was already retired in 1968 the chances aren't so good he's still with us - but it's worth a shot.  At the very least, maybe his family has some of his papers.

***************************************************************

From Ric

The gentleman's name was W.A. Cluthe and his address in 1968 was Mobile, Alabama.  There are now no Cluthes in the Mobile phonebook.  That's not exactly an exhaustive search.  If somebody wants to chase it further I'll help anyway i can.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 24 May 1998 09:49:19 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      TIGHAR Tracks received!

TIGHAR Tracks arrived here today (Saturday).  An execllent issue as always! I'm pleased to have the map.  Very nice.

I'll be interested to hear Jackie's impression of the cover photograph! I'm betting she will characterize the expression as I have.  It'll be interesting to see If I'm right!
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 07:50:19 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      KGMB Signals

Ric wrote:

>No one ever suggested that Earhart accidently received the KGMB signals. That
>she may have tuned to a powerful, well-known news station to find out what
>steps were being taken to find her does not seem outlandish to me.  Your
>totally unfounded accusation that George Putnam was perpetrating a hoax is
>tasteless and offensive.

Of course, the whole idea of the KGMB broadcast assumed that, if AE was able to get a receiver working, she would be searching the broadcast band for any signal she could find.  The chance of hearing anything on the aircraft frequencies that would be of any value to her would be virtually zero.  But she might hear KGMB with its fairly strong signal and not all that far away.  It's probably the only signal she could hear well enough to make anything of it.  And it was a reasonable choice to hope to learn what was happening and what she might do to try to help herself.  Maybe she did exactly that -- turned her transmitter on and off exactly as instructed. She may have realized that the on-off carrier could be detected under conditions where intelligible voice would have been impossible. Unintelligible voice transmissions were heard... maybe she did try that too.

The signals that appeared to be in response to the broadcast were probably not for real -- but they might have been real.  On the possibility they were real, I think the bearings taken should not be just thrown out.  They would not have been good bearings taken on a weak signal that had been bent around in a trip through the ionosphere.  The apparent direction would not be true but it would be approximate.  It's not surprising that the bearing on the Itasca was not accurate -- but it was approximate.

It is interesting to note that all the bearings taken on the "maybe Earhart" signals, poor as they may be, were to the south in the direction of the Phoenix Islands (and Niku), and definitely not toward the Gilbert Islands or toward the Marshall Islands.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 07:53:28 EDT
From:        Vern Klein
Subject:      The Ultralight

Ric wrote:

>We have a very good two-place ultralight on floats which we have speced out
>specifically for this mission.  We know how to fly airplanes and we're getting
>current in this one. Seems to make sense to proceed with the plan.

This looks like a good opening for my questions...

How low would you feel comfortable flying around over Niku?  Considering tree heights, how far above terrain would you be?  And, how slowly would it be practical to fly the Ultralight without crowding things with variable wind conditions, etc?
***********************************************************

From Ric

I'm going to let our principle ultralight pilot John Clauss answer your questions.  John?
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 08:01:45 EDT
From:        Bob Brown
Subject:      W.A. Cluthe

Here are the only Cluthes in the U.S. whose first name starts with a W.   There are 31 other Cluthes llisted.

Cluthe, Walter
      1667 1st Ave, Cincinnati, OH 45205-1027
      Phone: (513)471-3920

Cluthe, Walter J
      1667 1st Ave, Cincinnati, OH 45205-1027
      Phone: (513)471-3920

Bob
***************************************************************

From Dick Pingrey

W. A. Cluthe is very probably the William A. Cluthe who died in July 1969 at Mobile, Alabama.  He was born March 18, 1897 and was a resident of Mobile at the time of his death.  His Social Security number was 262-03-3007 and it was issued to him in Florida.  This information was obtained from the Social Security Death Index.

Dick Pingrey 908C
***************************************************************

From Ric

I think you're right Dick.  There's a chance that a living child or sibling might be able to tell us a little bit more about the circumstances surrounding the sextant, but they would be hard to find.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 08:04:58 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      1936 clipper crash?

The clipper reference rang a bell for me. When I was completing my Ph.D. at Pitt, one of my professors who taught courses in arts education was a lady named Dr. Barbara Fredette (married name). Once in conversation in the 1980's, she told me that her father was a clipper pilot, who was killed in a clipper crash in South America (Argentina, I believe) in 1936, the year she was born, or thereabouts. She never knew her father for that reason, but seemed to know a lot about the work he did. She still teaches at the University of Pittsburgh, main campus. Perhaps she could be a resource of sorts!--Best Wishes to all for Memorial Day!--Gene Dangelo :)

**************************************************************

From Ric

Odd. There were no clipper crashes in South America or anywhere else in 1936.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 08:06:41 EDT
From:        Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: Credibility

Russ Matthews wrote:-

>  It has been well established in earlier postings that everyone here is
>entitled to their opinions.  However, I hereby move that from now on any
>opinions expressed in the Earhart Forum must be accompanied by what I like to
>call a "reason" (for an example of this process take a look at all of Ric's
>entries).  Any seconds?

Seconded !! (amongst many others I hope)

>  Dick...I understand that you are a man of few, though LARGE, words - but we
>are not going to blindly accept what you have to say any more than Mr.
>Gillespie.  Simply telling us all to read the available material isn't enough
>to prove your case.  Read what?  Be specific.

I for one have been frequently scratching my head wondering not only what Dick's exactly trying to say here, but what question - and even entire subject scope he's rattling on about.

How about it Dick ??  A little courtesy ?  At least include as a quote some of the previous posting(s) which you are addressing. Then perhaps we'll be able to make sense.

And please lose the capitals - I for one find it irksome and slow reading sentences in capitals. In future I'm gonna immediately skip without reading any postings written in capitals.

>  While it is important for us to continue challenging each other - let's just
>be sure to do it constructively.

Hear ! Hear!

Ric/Pat:-  Thanks for the TRACKS - arrived yesterday (Sat.). Airmail's working well!

Simon Ellwood
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 08:11:14 EDT
From:        Ken Feder
Subject:      Amelia and the Mac

A bit off track but:

Have you all seen Apple Computer's new add campaign: Think Different.  The individuals they are using as icons of the "Think Different" philosophy include, among onthers: Ghandi, Thomas Edison, Pablo Picasso, Alfred Hitchcock, Albert Einstein and, you guessed it Amelia Earhart (they're even selling posters).

Ken Feder
2103
***************************************************************

From Ric

AE would have probably used a Mac.  You don't have to know code.

(PS: TIGHAR is Mac-based.)
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 08:29:24 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Re: Fred Pic

Vern

Enigmatic.  Like he's saying "You lot will never figure me out...

I WILL MR. NOONAN,  I WILL....

Actually Vern, its the shirt that concerns me.  When did he ever WASH it??

mmmm....and there's that slight swelling on the lower lip...

Jackie

**************************************************************
From Ric

A little context may help.  The photo (on the cover of the current TIGHAR Tracks) was taken during a reception at the Aero Club at Dakar, French Senegal.  Fred is watching as Amelia is toasted by their hosts.  That's a polite smile.  He knows that AE will always be the star of the show and that seems okay with him.

I, too, have wondered about how many of those shirts he had with him and how often he could get them washed.  Most of the trip was equatorial and these were the days before deodorants and anti-perspirants.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 08:52:50 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Canaday speech

Randy

Thanks for the posting.

Whilst I agree with Ric in that it is still anecdotal evidence it has to have some truth in it.

I cant imagine Canaday standing up  during a speech saying this if Fred did not have SOMETHING of a reputation. Of course this is not to say he was an alcoholic.

There are far too many similar reports from DIFFERING sources to be discounted.   Jackie F.
**************************************************************

From Ric

There is an important investigative principle at issue here which is at the heart of TIGHAR's Earhart search. Anecdotes, no matter how numerous and varied in source, do not constitute evidence.  They may lead the investigator to real evidence, but they are -by themselves - merely stories.  Examples:

1.  Saipan and the Marshalls are rife with stories which describe Earhart's capture and demise at the hands of the Japanese.  There are far, far more of these tales than there are of Fred's drinking.  And yet no photographic, documentary or artifactual evidence of any kind has ever been found to substantiate them.  The only reason that we can not say for absolute certain that none of it ever happened is the fact that it is impossible to prove a negative hypothesis.  We can't prove what didn't happen except by proving what DID happen.  We're working on that.

2.  Early in our investigation of Nikumaroro we ran into anecdotes about bones being found on the island which were supposedly suspected as being those of Amelia Earhart.  We did not consider these stories to be evidence in themselves but, rather, leads worth investigating.  Even after we found an archaeological site on the island which produced some of the same artifacts described in the stories (parts of an American woman's shoe), we could not be sure that the tales were anything but folklore.  The discovery last summer of official contemporaneous correspondence which fully described the 1940 discovery was a tremendously gratifying verifaction of what had previously been speculation.

The point is, some stories are true and some aren't, and there is no way to tell which is which without hard evidence.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 09:01:20 EDT
From:        Al Hall
Subject:      1937 island visits

Randy Jacobson asked if any one was wandering around the area.  I know of one expedition from Hawaii and one from New Zealand who went to Canton to view the 1937 eclipse about that time.  Possibly late May or June.  There was an article in the summer of 1937 that appeared in the National Geographic that covered the event..  The SS Avocet from Hawaii and the SS Niagra from Suva to Honolulu.  The two ships met on May 24 as a small party from the Niagra went ashore on Endeberry to explore that island.  The Niagra went  back to Canton and the passengers all went ashore for a few days and viewed the eclipse.  Afterward they reboarded and went back to Hawaii.  An Interesting account in the National Geographic for those who havent seen it.

It must have been a late summer edition because it had a reference to Earhart...."Less than 200 miles south of the equator, Canton is one of eight islands of the Phoenix group.  To the Northwest is Howland Island, which was the objective of Amelia Earhart's fllight from Lai, New Guinea, on her way around the world.  The Phoenix Islands and others near by were inclucded in the USNavy;s search for Miss Earhart and her navigator, Frederick J Noonan"

AL HALL

***************************************************************

From Ric

The visit to Canton to view the eclipse (which occured on June 8, 1937) is only partly told in the Nat'l Geo article.  There was much more to it than that.

What really happened at Canton was a major diplomatic incident involving the U.S.S. Avocet and the British cruiser HMS Wellington each attempting to establish national ownership rights to the island.  Hilarious in retrospect, it was serious business at the time and the subject of great tension in both Washington and London.  None of the ships involved visited Gardner during that trip.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 09:05:04 EDT
From:        Al Hall
Subject:      Canton

Has anyone ever checked the Bishop Museum in Honolulu?  I have been there twice before I got involved with TIGHAR, but the attached letter from a friend makes me wonder what else they have there, about previous visits to islands in the Phoenix area.  I suspect Ric has already checked it out.

Hello Al,  Just got your message that pictures will soon be on the way - will be anxiously waiting.

The 1924 map was not with the National Geographic article of 1937. I believe I got it from the Bishop Museum in Honolulu. The map was made by E.H. Bryan, former curator of the museum, and a member of the
"Whippoorwill" expedition to the equatorial islands. This was a geology, biology, ornithology, etc. expedition named after their ship. It really is quite detailed, isn't it?

The detail marked "stone pier" was probably a structure put there either by the early whalers or the guano miners which came after them. It seems that Canton got a lot of traffic in the whaling days; probably looking for water.

The map you sent to me shows the water runway, and the map I had shows all the coral heads which Pan Am had to remove to establish their base.

All these things go together to help complete the puzzle. Hopefully Jack Shea and Bob Pomeroy will find some pictures. I have some other feelers out for Canton info and if it comes in I'll be sure to share it with you. For example, Ann Pellegreno was there in 1967 on her recreation of Earhart's flight, and she has been cooperative with me in furnishing Howland pictures. Linda Finch was there last summer in the 1997 recreation of Earhart's flight and she has been anything but cooperative!! No help from her, that is for sure. I've been informed that she has a bad attitude.

More later - have a good Memorial Day!     Lewis D.
**************************************************************

From Ric

I haven't personally been to the Bishop Museum but I have seen Bryan's book.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 09:25:44 EDT
From:        Barbara Wiley
Subject:      Noonan in cockpit

There was no room in the cockpit for Noonan.  His area was in the back of the fuselage situated behind extra fuel tanks having been installed for greater fuel capacity.  The "fishing pole" message system, whereby Noonan and AE communicated with written notes was necessary due to the limited space in the Electra.

When you say, "Noonan....'most of the time in the cockpit'...", I do not understand?
**************************************************************

From Ric

The idea that Noonan rode only in the back and communicated via the "fishing pole" system is myth.

There are numerous references in Last Flight to Fred being in the cockpit. For example:  In the "Dakar" chapter, " (A)s we munched (peanuts) Fred and I might have been in the bleachers of a ball-game back home, instead of in the cockpit of a plane spanning remote deserts."

Sequential photos taken of AE and FN boarding the plane in San Juan, exiting the plane in Lae, and film of boarding the plane for the last takeoff in Lae, all show them both using the forward hatch.  Fred always climbs in first and exits after AE.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 09:38:53 EDT
From:        Barbara Wiley
Subject:      Ping pong balls?

Warren:  What about the possibility of those "many" hams who heard AE that night being able to hear due to "skip" of the radio signals?

A "booster" generator was placed in the Electra in Oakland(credible party helped load generator), perhaps, answering the question of transmissions by AE once down, also, all airspace in the plane had been filled with ping pong balls(from credible eye witness) to help the flotation possibilities for a water landing.

***************************************************************

From Ric

There is no evidence of a "booster" generator.  There is also no such thing as a "booster" generator.

The ping pong ball story is a ludicrous confusion with a transatlantic flight in which ping pong balls were put in the wings of an aircraft for flotation in case of a ditching.  If memory serves, it was the Dick Merrill/Charles Lamby crossing in a Northrop Delta (can somebody help me here?).
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 09:42:57 EDT
From:        Barbara Wiley
Subject:      Re: Canton Engine

Art Kennedy, residing in Portugal, would be an excellent, source of information on this engine - He customized the engine mounts for AE in Burbank before her 2nd and final departure for the flight.
***************************************************************

From Ric

Customized engine mounts?  There was some beefing up of the center section as specified in drawings now on file at NASM, but I know of no change made to the engine mounts.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 09:50:01 EDT
From:        Barbara Wiley
Subject:      Re: Noonan myth

Real evidence:  Noonan flew with Ed Musick - the most conservative pilot - not likely he'd put his life at risk if Noonan was such a basket case!
***************************************************************

From Ric

Interesting observation, but not "real evidence."

Here's a quick and easy way to spot a guess as opposed to a statement of fact:

Anytime someone uses the words "would" or "would have" in describing an historical event, it's a guess.

So when you say "not likely he'd put his life at risk...", what you're really saying is "my guess is that he would not have put his life at risk...".
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 09:51:43 EDT
From:        David Kelly
Subject:      KGMB frequencies

Randy Jacobson wrote:

> David Kelly wrote:
>
>> Did KGMB have a secondary frequency to transmit from there studio to there
>> primary transmitter?
>
>I doubt it...it would be much easier to send it by wire directly!

OK...it is common practice over here when the studio is not co-located with the primary antenna
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 13:27:15 EDT
From:        Frank Kuhre
Subject:      Ping pong balls

During the restoration of the Finch Electra I came across several stories (no proof) that it was considered, and that it was done (Ping Pong balls).
                                                                   Frank

*************************************************************

From Ric

I think that it's a fairly common Earhart myth, but a myth nonetheless.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 13:28:29 EDT
From:        Jim Tierney
Subject:      Re: 1936 clipper crash?

Yes you are correct in saying there were no Clipper crashes in 1936. However maybe the man was killed in another PAN AM or PANAGRA aircraft crash in SA in 1936. There was a crash in Barranquilla, Colombia in  Feb 36 of a SCADTA amphibian--a  Sikorsky Model S-41 which was a smaller version of the four engined S-40. Maybe time had softened or changed some details in this woman's family stories. Just a thought.
Jim Tierney
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 13:44:55 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      exclusives (caution - Strippel)

>there was very little coverage of AE's preparations for the second attempt
>until she got to Miami.  She planned it that way

 --SORRY-- PUTNAM PLANNED IT THAT WAY.  HE HAD AN EXCLUSIVE WITH THE NY HERALD TRIBUNE- EVEN IN THOSE DAZE RATHER UNETHICAL FOR A  pr guy  he was after all --A HACK FLACK

-- DICK (A 50-YEAR pr GUY WHO SUBSCRIBES TOP  code of ethics

****************************************************************

From Ric

I'm not a PR guy, but I don't see anything unethical about an exclusive. On our 1991, 1997, and 1998 (Kanton) expeditions, network television paid for exclusive rights to send a film crew.  It helped fund the expeditions.  Were we unethical?
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 13:51:16 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      truth

You said  "The point is, some stories are true and some aren't, and there is no way to tell which is which without hard evidence"

This is to subscribe to the correspondence theory of truth. For example "It is raining here now " is true if indeed that is the case.

However on the pragmatic theory of truth a proposition is true insofar as it WORKS.

The correspondence theory lends itself to your field of research. the pragmatic theory is better suited to mine.  We are dealing with different things. You - facts  me concepts/ideas.

To simply consider only the correspondence theory is to disregard the question as to what is the NATURE of truth.

Sorry if this is a bit off topic but I couldn't resist it.

Jackie.
***************************************************************

From Ric

The nature of truth is not off topic.

I had not heard of the pragmatic theory of truth which holds that a proposition is true insofar as it WORKS.

It's a novel concept.  Are we then to assume that the Sun revolved around the Earth as long as that "worked" for society, but as soon as Galileo observed phenomena that made it not work, the system flip-flopped?
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 13:55:06 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Bad book, bad rap (caution-Strippel)

The Loomis book is about the second worst of all. NOT QUITE AS BAD as Carrington, but pretty rotten. ONE SHOULD READ THE OLIVER KNAGGS BOOK FOR INFO ON LOOMIS'S UNETHICAL CONDUCT.
                                                       --dick
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 13:56:27 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Noonan in cockpit

Some sources suggest that Fred took his fixes through the windshield. Others say he had non-refractive glass fitted in the back of the plane. I would have imagined if he had gone to this bother he would have used these windows. But perhaps he just used these for taking sights with the pelorus which was fitted at both sides for wind drift measurements. It is best to use a bubble sextant at the centre of gravity of the plane to minimize errors due to acceleration but i'm not sure in a plane as small as the Electra that it would make much differnce the cockpit being as close to the centre of gravity as the space behind the fuel tanks.

Anyway he must have spent a considerable time in the back at the chart table but for company he maybe liked to ride right up front with Amelia.

Jackie
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 13:58:22 EDT
From:        Dick Strippel
Subject:      Running on the line (Strippel)

SHE KNEW THERE WAS A STRIP ON HOWLAND, BUT NOT ONE ON BAKER.  ALL ARRANGEMENTS HAD BEEN FOR HOWLAND.
**************************************************************

From Ric

There was no strip on Baker at that time.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 16:59:12 EDT
From:        Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Ric Bio & TIGHAR History

By popular demand:

I am, to my astonishment, 50 years old and have been TIGHAR's executive director since the organization's founding in 1985.  Because my personal history is not all that interesting, I have taken this opportunity to also provide a brief recitation of how TIGHAR got to where it is.

I was born in the small upstate New York town of Fulton, in the same area where my Scotch-Irish ancestors were among the first settlers.  My dad flew B-17s with considerable distinction during WWII and I grew up (or rather, failed to grow up) as the oldest son of the home town war hero.  Despite a degree in aeronautical engineering from Syracuse University, Dad elected to take over the family milk processing and delivery business after the war.  He did, however, own a succession of airplanes including a Piper SuperCruiser, Luscombe Silvaire, and Republic SeaBee.  Airplanes, from my earliest memories, were simply a part of life.

I soloed in 1965 while I was in high school and by the time I graduated from the State University of New York at Oswego (major in history) in 1969  I had a Commercial Certificate with Instrument and Multi-engine Ratings.  My vision wasn't good enough for me to fly in the military so I enlisted in an Army officer-candidate program which gave me a six-month reprieve before I had to report for active duty.  During that time I flew right seat in a DC-3 (actually a converted C-47) which was leased to a semi-pro ice hockey team.
Bad maintenance, bad weather, rowdy passengers, over-gross loads, deadbeat captains, and the greatest airplane in the world.

In January 1970 I became the property of Uncle Sam and began an odyssey which resulted, a year later, with graduation from the Infantry Officer Candidate School at Ft. Benning, GA (aka The Benning School for Boys).  By that time I had figured out that my war was not at all like my father's war and I had no desire to give my life to make the world safe for Nixon's re-election. By a combination of calculated delaying actions and great good fortune I ended up too "short" to be sent to Vietnam and was assigned to the First Cavalry Division at Ft. Hood, Texas where my aviation experience got me a job as Communications Officer for the 227th Aviation Battalion.  The war kept winding down and early-outs were to be had. By late 1972 I was back in civvies and eager to find a job in aviation.

National Aviation Underwriters, an insurance company based in St. Louis, was hiring young pilots, teaching them how to spell i-n-s-u-r-a-n-c-e, and giving them a sales territory and an airplane.  The pay was lousy ($5,000/yr to start. No commission. No kidding.) but it was a flying job.  I was based out of Philadelphia and for eight years I flew little airplanes all over the eastern U.S. in all kinds of weather and into all kinds of airports selling aviation coverage to airplane owners and airport operators, investigating accidents, and settling claims.  I loved it (the flying, that is) and eventually ended up with my own agency, my own airplane(s), and a rather nice income.  I parted ways with National in 1981 and was hired as Asst. VP for Aviation for Bayly, Martin & Faye, a large brokerage firm in Philadelphia.

I soon found myself commuting by train into Philadelphia and working on the 17th floor of an office building.  Where did all the airplanes go? The insurance companies and the legal community were busily killing the American general aviation industry.  I felt like one of the bad guys.  I also had a horrendous marriage.  The American dream had become a nightmare so, in 1984, I decided to wake up and start fixing things.

Leaving the insurance industry and the marriage left me broke and alone, but "freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose" so I decided to do what I really wanted to do.  I had always been interested in history and archaeology, and I had become aware of a fascinating aviation historical mystery which just might be solvable.  No, not Amelia Earhart.  In 1927 two French transatlantic aviators had vanished just ten days before Lindbergh's NY to Paris flight.  There seemed to be a possibility that they had actually made
it from France as far as coastal Maine.  Could the tales told by the locals about an old hermit who had heard a plane crash far back in the woods be the key to the fate of The White Bird?  It was irresistible.  With money raised from some ex-insurance clients and a small team of volunteers I began the search. Fifteen years later, that search is still going on.

Along the way I met and married Pat Thrasher.  Together we came to the realization that no one else was doing aviation archaeology as an academic discipline.  There was plenty of grave robbing and treasure hunting going on, but precious little genuine historical research.  We wondered if it might be possible to form a nonprofit foundation whose members would contribute the effort, the expertise and the money to pursue aviation archaeology in the interest of history.  To make it work would require our full-time efforts - no
day jobs.  It would be tough at first but we decided to go for it and, in January 1985, The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery (TIGHAR) was recognized by the IRS as a 501(c)(3) public charity.

The first few years were a whole lot tougher than we expected and there were many times when we thought of giving up.  The search for The White Bird in Maine was a bust despite eight years, 20 search expeditions, and a number of promising leads which eventually led nowhere.  The proposed recovery of a rare B-17E from a New Guinea swamp in 1986 was thwarted by a government moratorium on all recoveries.  Investigations of rumored underground wartime hangars in Germany have, so far, proved only that the rumors are not true. The continued search for The White Bird in the wilds of Newfoundland was more productive, although far more expensive, than the earlier work in Maine.

But disappointing as the field work often was, the hard lessons we learned were defining a new discipline.  We learned (and are still learning) how to sift fact from folklore.  We learned how to mount and conduct expeditions so that the work gets done and the people and equipment come home in one piece. We learned other things too. Working with historic preservationists around the world helped us recognize a great need for better understanding of preservation principles among aviation enthusiasts and, from 1989 to 1995, we conducted a very successful series of seminars and courses in aviation archaeology at major air museums in the U.S. and Europe.  We published the TIGHAR Guide to Aviation Historic Preservation Terminology which has been adopted by numerous air museums around the world.

In 1988 we launched the Earhart Project.  Ten years, five expeditions, and something over $1.5 million later, our goal of recovering conclusive physical evidence which will solve the Earhart riddle once and for all, seems more and more like a realistic expectation than a hopeful dream.

As an organization, TIGHAR is stronger than it has ever been, but we're still a hunting and gathering society.  The current membership of just over 700 does not generate sufficient income to run the day to day operations, let alone fund major expeditions.  We're still reliant upon special contributions to keep going.  It is, however, our hope that the increased exposure and accessibility we enjoy through the TIGHAR website and this forum will promote the kind of membership growth that will provide for a truly self-sustaining
organization.

Personally, I don't do much flying anymore, but that's okay. Been there. Done that. Nor is finding Amelia an end in itself.  The Earhart Project is a way of learning how to seek the truth and demonstrating those techniques to anyone who is interested.  I think that's a worthwhile thing for all of us to do.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 17:06:51 EDT
From:        Mike Firczuk
Subject:      Ping pong balls?

The following info is found in "Wings of Man", the biography of Dick Merrill, by Jack L. King (ISBN 0-911721-91-6) Aviation Books.

Henry Tyndall 'Dick' Merrill and Harry Richman flew a single engined Vultee, named "Lady Peace", from Floyd Bennett Field to Croydon Airport, London (after a stop in South Wales) in Sept. 1936.  For the return, they were 100% overloaded and required a long runway.  They took off from the hard-packed sand of Southport beach.  They encountered icing and theh panicked, inexperienced co-pilot dumped much of their fuel! They did make a nose-down landing in a soft bog in Newfoundland.

The plane belonged to Harry, an entertainer (he had just received his pilot's license).  The idea for the trip was Merrill's.  The flight was intended to be the first transatlantic round trip.  Harry purchased 40,000 ping pong balls for use as floatation (I know an individual ping pong ball is light but what did 40,000 weigh! I have no idea how many were used.).  The flotation idea was Sid Shannon's, who was Operations Manager for Eastern Air Lines.

Engine: Wright Cyclone G5, 1,000 HP, constant speed prop
Fuel: >1,000 gal.

I hope this helps.
I received 'Tracks' this week, good job.

LTM,

Michael Firczuk, Tighar 2002

***************************************************************

Thanks Mike.  I used to know all that stuff.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 17:11:53 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Truth

The Sun example is still in your realm - observable facts.

Other propositions eg how 'truth' pertains to say personal identity are in mine .

Different fields of discourse.

And you can navigate fine whether the stars are painted on something called the celestial sphere or whether they are fireballs billions of light years away!

Jackie

*************************************************************

From Ric

Okay, but it sounds like an alternative universe to me.
=========================================================
Date:         Tue, 26 May 1998 17:13:10 EDT
From:        Jackie Ferrari
Subject:      Re; BAD BOOK, BAD RAP

Dick

I'm not familiar with Carrington or Oliver Knaggs. Could you give me the details so I can try and get them over here. Also your own book? Getting Amelia books takes ages if they have to come from the States. I ordered Donohue's book before someone on the Forum said it was awful.......so I'm dying to read it.

jackie
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 May 1998 09:48:35 EDT
From:        Gene Dangelo
Subject:      Re: 1936 clipper crash?

Actually, it may be MY memory that's softening...I looked back in my 1983 journal,(which is when I had the conversation) since my last forum posting, and found that she was born in 1934!! Add to this the fact that she had received hand-me-down information, and some twists could occur for sure. She DID insist that her Dad was a clipper pilot, however. I wish I knew her maiden name, since that would tell us her Dad's surname too. If I find it, I'll be sure to let you know!--Thanks for your interest! --Gene Dangelo :)
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 May 1998 09:53:20 EDT
From:        Clyde Miller
Subject:      Re: Ric Bio & TIGHAR History

I still think there is room for a made for TV movie here somewhere!!!!!

Thanks
Clyde

***************************************************************
From Ric

It's been done.  Major theatrical release back in the early sixties called "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World."
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 May 1998 10:47:38 EDT
From:        Dean Alexander
Subject:      Canton Engine

Reading the excerpt in the latest "Tracks" about the Canton engine brought up a couple of questions.

First off I am assuming that the radial engine that Bruce found was indeed found on Gardner  and it was Earhart's (big assumptions I know).

When the Electra broke up because of wave action etc.or on landing then did the engine come to rest where it was picked up or did it migrate to the location where Bruce picked it up? If it couldn't have traveled far from where it was broken off of the plane than we have a good idea of where the Plane landed (which part of the island).

Also, if it was somewhere on the reef flat after the Electra broke up why wasn't it seen by the search planes or the various expeditions to Gardner in the late 30's after Earhart was lost? Or why didn't the people from the Loran base see it? If Bruce spotted it some 30 years later why is it that others missed it? Dean A.
**************************************************************

From Ric

To paraphrase a line from Monty Python and The Holy Grail (another film that is actually about TIGHAR), "Radial engines are non-migratory."

Understanding that anything we say on this subject is in the realm of rank speculation, let me construct a scenario which satisfies both the available clues and the principle of Occam's Razor. (A principle of reasoning attributed to English philosopher and theologian William of Occam, 1285-1349 "non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem" Literally "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity" meaning that the simplest explanation which accounts for all the facts is probably correct. )

July 2, 1937 - The Electra is landed successfully, wheels down,  on the reef flat off western end of Gardner Island.  AE and FN begin sending messages, hear and respond to the KGMB request, etc.

July 4, 1937 - Around midnight rising surf forces the abandonment of the airplane (...WON'T HOLD WITH US MUCH LONGER...ABOVE WATER...SHUT OFF)

July 9, 1937 - By the time the Colorado's search planes arrive overhead, the airplane is sufficently broken up and scattered about on the reef flat that its pieces are indistinguishable from the nearby wreckage from the SS Norwich City.  An aerial photo taken during the search shows that the tide is high and there is surf running over the reef flat.

Before October 11, 1937 - By the time the first people visit the island on the ground (Maude and Bevington), wave action has distributed the wreckage to wherever it's going to go.  Massive components (i.e. a broken-off engine) remain on the reef looking for all the world like either a hunk of coral or a piece of Norwich City debris.  Buoyant pieces travel through the lagoon passage and wash up on the shore of Taraia.  The mangled centersection is driven up into the underbrush along the Nutiran shore.

Sometime between Gallagher's death (Sept. 1941) and the arrival of the Coast Guard (July 1944) the locals come upon some of the wreckage and they salvage pieces such as the control cable used as a fishing line leader seen by PBY pilot John Mims in late '44/early '45.  The Loran guys do not poke about in the bushes on Nutiran.

Late '50s/early 60s - Pulekai Songivalu sees wreckage on the Taraia lagoon shore and assumes that it is from a wartime crash.  Tapania Taeke and other children know about airplane wreckage on the reef flat and in the Nutiran underbrush but are told to stay away from it because of ghosts.  A few pieces of wreckage are brought to the village and used for local purposes.  Around this time, according to Tapania, some white men in a government ship (?) come and take pictures of the wreckage on Nutiran (the Wreck Photo?).

1971 - Bruce Yoho, from the unique vantage point of a low and slow flying helicopter, and with his unique background as an airplane mechanic, spots the engine on the reef flat and recovers it to Canton Island.

1989, 1991, 1996, 1997 - TIGHAR searches do not include an inspection of the Nutiran underbrush but do recover a few pieces of Electra wreckage from the abandoned village.

How's that for speculation?

Love to mother,
Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 May 1998 10:48:55 EDT
From:        Randy Jacobson
Subject:      The Bishop Museum

I spent a good week at the Bishop Museum, and found quite a good bit of information on the colonization of the islands, and information on other islands, some of it unique.  However, regarding AE's disappearance, there is little there.  Bryant was a pack-rat par extraordinare, and if you are interested in pre-war oceania, its a good starting point.  The folks at Bishop were quite helpful.  They do all the xeroxing, and it costs a pretty penny per page.  They have the original diaries from Howland, Baker, and Jarvis colonizations, from 1935 through 1936, plus transcripts until 1941.

Randy Jacobson
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 May 1998 11:04:12 EDT
From:         John Clauss
Subject:      The Ultralight - reply

The ultralight is a Quicksilver MXL II, powered by a 618 Rotax, on Puddle Jumper Floats with a four blade Arplast prop.  For those that aren't familiar with the brand names it is a two place (side by side), high wing pusher with conventional three axis controls.  The engine is water cooled, produces 74 hp. and the whole contraption is atop two fiberglass floats.

There is enough fuel capacity to fly for about four hours, but I can't see us ever carrying more than two hours of fuel.

As you know the stall speeds vary quite a bit depending on the gross weight of the plane.  As a rule of thumb I would say straight line speeds around 35 mph and 50' above the tree tops would be the minimum.  Average flying day would have wind speeds of 15 mph.  When flying into the wind this would result in an over the terrain speed of 20 mph.  For most of the areas that we want to search this would also result in a straight in approach to the protected waters of the lagoon.  There are obviously times when higher speeds and altitudes would be warranted.  General flying and maneuvering speeds are going to be up around 45 to 50.

John Clauss
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 May 1998 11:55:14 EDT
From:        Barbara Wiley
Subject:      Plethora of stories

Yes, Ric, Some of the stories are true and some are not.  Are you aware of the plethora of stories, not just those you've been exposed to in print, but the hundreds of stories that have been gathered in the last ten years from individuals who have little to gain, but to share something that had happened to them in connection with AE and Fred's disappearance.  Most of these stories gathered have been from military personnel who had fleeting personal experiences in the Pacific that tend to tie in with those stories we've heard for years by the Goerners, Briand's, Thompson's, etc.  You are doing a wonderful job providing the general public to express interest in this subject, unfortunately, when the move to do what you're doing began, 1986, we did not have command of this wonderful technology.  BTW, I am not MAC-based.  Barb

***************************************************************

From Ric

Thanks Barb.  Yes, the technology is wonderful and it facilitates the research process immeasurably by speeding up and broadening communications.

I am indeed aware of the plethora of stories told by ex-servicemen.  I have a file approximately 3 inches thick labeled "Japanee-man-take-ladyflier-Saipan." What I find remarkable is how almost all the stories follow the same basic script.

An enlisted man (usually on Saipan in 1944 shortly after the American invasion) comes across material relating to Amelia Earhart (photos, documents, a briefcase, a flight log, a suitcase, even human remains) which had previously been in the possession of the Japanese.  He brings this material to the attention of an American officer who takes custody of it and swears him to secrecy.  Nothing else is ever heard of the matter.  Nobody kept any souvenirs.  Nobody can remember the name of the officer.  And most of the material reportedly found is stuff that Amelia didn't have with her in the first place.

Secret Agent Amelia is very much like Nessie, the Loch Ness Monster.  There are lots and lots of stories, but the harder you look for her, the more she isn't there.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 May 1998 12:00:08 EDT
From:        Barbara Wiley
Subject:      Ping pong eyewitness

No, AE's use of ping pong balls was not confused with the Dick Merrill flight.  In 1986 or 87 I spoke with one of the aircraft mechanics who had been responsible at Lockheed for some of the work on the interior of her plane and he saw the pp balls.

This fellow from Iowa, just ask Ann Pellegreno.  Barb
***************************************************************

From Ric

How can I put this delicately?  The fact that a guy, 50 years after the fact, said that he saw ping pong balls in Earhart's Electra does not mean that there were ping pong balls in Earhart's Electra.
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 May 1998 14:07:19 EDT
From:        Ric Gillespie
Subject:      A talk with Harry Canaday

I just had a very nice chat with Harry Canaday.  Canaday was part of the Pan American Airways Pacific Division survey crew which pioneered the route from California to Manila in 1935 and '36.  The other members of that crew are all gone now, including the navigator - Fred Noonan.  Canaday worked with Fred Noonan beginning from the time the survey flight crew was assembled in Miami to begin preparing for the Pacific flights, to Fred's departure from the company in late '36/early '37. Canaday's acquaintence with Noonan, therefore, lasted perhaps two years.

I didn't ask Capt. Canaday his age but he said that he was about 25 at the time he flew with Noonan so that would make him roughly 88 years old now.  He and his wife live in a retirement community in Florida.  He sounds wonderful, says he enjoys life, but the doctor recently told him that he probably shouldn't drive in traffic.

 Capt. Canaday has been quoted on the subject of Noonan's drinking so I was particularly interested to speak with him about his personal knowledge on that subject.

The first thing he wanted me to understand is that he never really socialized with Noonan.  It was, he said, "an age thing."  He was 25 and Noonan was in his late 40s.  When I asked him about Noonan and drinking, his intial response was "We all knew about it." but he hastened to add that he never knew drinking to effect Noonan's performance.  I then asked if he had ever personally seen Noonan drunk or under the influence either on or off duty.
He said, "No.  Never."
I then asked if he had ever met Fred's wife. He said, "Oh yes.  We all knew the wives."
"So you did sometimes see him in social situations?" I asked.
"Sure.  Official functions, parties, that sort of thing.", he replied.
"But you never saw him drunk?"
"No."

To challenge him further on this point didn't seem very polite, so I moved on to another subject.
Ric: "I understand that Noonan taught navigation for the Pacific Division."
Canaday: "I'm sure he did but he never taught me. I was a Naval Academy graduate and already knew navigation."

I then told him about the sextant box found on Gardner in 1940 and the sextant at the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola with similar numbers on the box. He remembered the pilot who gave the sextant to the museum, William Cluthe (pronounced, I learned, Cloothy).
Ric:  "Did you ever know Noonan to carry a nautical sextant ?"
Canaday:  "Not that I recall."
Ric: "Where did the sextants used on the aircraft come from?"
Canaday: "They were all bubbles (bubble octants) and they belonged to Operations."
He had no recollection of a numbered accounting system.  He couldn't think of anyone else still living who had known Noonan.

We chatted some more about the Pacific and we compared notes about Canton Island.  He asked about the kind of flying I had done and we agreed that it's not like it used to be.  We were on the phone for maybe 20 minutes.

I promised to send him some information about TIGHAR.  He seems like a fine gentleman.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Wed, 27 May 1998 14:13:20 EDT
From:         Dick Strippel
Subject:      Post-Loss radio possibilities

>Often times, if conditions both in and outside of the radio were unstable
>enough, an "image frequency" could be generated

TRUE ENUF  THIS IS WHAT MADE MANUEL FERNANDEZ OF HILO AIRWAYS THINK HE HAD REC'D AE WHEN IT WAS REALLY "THE MARCH OF TIME."         ==DICK
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 May 1998 08:12:32 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Re: wreck scenario

Ric wrote:-

>July 2, 1937 - The Electra is landed successfully, wheels down,  on the reef
>flat off western end of Gardner Island.  AE and FN begin sending messages,
>hear and respond to the KGMB request, etc.
>
>July 4, 1937 - Around midnight rising surf forces the abandonment of the
>airplane (...WON'T HOLD WITH US MUCH LONGER...ABOVE WATER...SHUT OFF)

etc. etc.

Yes, this scenario is very plausible - it neatly accounts for anecdotal accounts, post lost signals (if genuine), Bruce's engine, the wreck photo (with Bruce's engine missing). Prevailing currents carry the
wreckage into the Nutiran tree line and the lagoon.

If AE's L10 landed and was subsequently wrecked so near to the Norwich City, I can see the possiblility of any wreckage being spotted being mistaken for parts of this ship - and thus generally not reported to or
seen by officials. Neat.

I'm nearly sold.
One minor point that worries me:-

I can't see powerful wave action being so differential as to totally wreck one engine installation - wrenching the engine off and destroying it blades, as well as removing both outer wing sections - and leave the left engine so pristine with intact ring cowl and unbent prop.

Bruce's engine definitely had no prop blades - maybe a hub, but no blades. I can't see how natural forces could remove a pair (two, both) blades. They'd just bend.

I guess we've all seen photos of accidents with collapsed gear and bent props (AE's L10E at Hawaii for instance), and the blades always bend near the tip where they are thinnest. I've never seen a prop blade break at the hub where they are thickest and usually circular in section- very strong.

Corrosion ?  Possibly, but to corrode away that much blade metal at the hub my guess would be that there would be next to nothing of the rest of the engine left with that level of corrosion present.

Would the colonists have the tools to hack off a pair of blades, and if so what would they use them for ?  If this was indeed the case then my guess would be that the blades would be considered quite valuable and
certainly taken with the colonists on their leaving in 1963. On the down side though, I would expect the surviving colonists inteviewed by TIGHAR to remember such outstanding things as prop blades.

Any ideas ?

Simon Ellwood

**************************************************************

From Ric

I know what you mean Simon.  Those points bother me too.

I have no experience with airplanes being pushed around on a reef flat by the surf.  I can only try to imagine what could happen.  The analogy of a tornado comes to mind.  A perfect study in chaos theory.  I'm not sure that anyone could say what would and would not be damaged.

As for bent props; we're accustomed to seeing blades which have touched the ground while spinning.  It's real hard to bend a prop that isn't turning. They're incredibly strong.  I've seen airplanes that have been rolled up into a ball by a windstorm, but the prop blades remain unbent. I don't have any problem with stationary blades making the trip across the reef without bending.

As for the missing prop on Bruce's engine: let's look at the null hyothesis. Let's say that, for a prop to be gone from a radial engine, somone had to have removed it.  That means that whatever engine Bruce found, on whichever island of the Phoenix Group he found it, somone had removed the propeller.  It's quite safe to say that, among the various folk living on those islands (with the exception of Canton) from the Big Bang until 1971, there were no airplane mechanics with tool boxes.  Hacking off those Ham Standard blades is not a job that I'd want and, you're right, nobody seems to remember such a thing happening. From that perspective, however unlikely it may seem to us, it is more likely that the prop got knocked or corroded off than that it got taken off.  The blades are aluminum.  The cuff at the hub is steel.  Corrosion is often worst at the junction of dissimilar metals.  Just guessing.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 May 1998 08:41:01 EDT
From:         Ann Hinrichs
Subject:      Ping pong balls

Somehow I've missed the connection with AE and ping pong balls. Do I dare ask about this or am I better off not knowing?
Thanks,
Ann Hinrichs

***************************************************************
From Ric

It has been alleged that the wings of the Electra were filled with ping pong balls to enhance buoyancy in the event of a ditching.  I suggested that the ping pong ball story was the result of confusion with a Dick Merrill transatlantic flight which did, in fact, employ that rather bizarre precaution. Barb Wiley is quite sure the balls were there because in 1986 or '87 someone who had worked on AE's plane at Lockheed told her that he had seen the balls in the Electra.  I continue in my skepticism because I can find no reference to ping pong balls in any of the Bureau of Air Commerce or Lockheed paperwork on the airplane, nor is there any mention of such a newsworthy feature in any of the press reports which dwelt on every detail of the airplane.  I can not, of course, prove that the balls were not there (a negative hypothesis), but if they were they must have been part of the Top Secret spy equipment installed by Roosevelt.  If we could just find a photo of the Electra with a wheelchair ramp at the cabin door and boxes stacked about labeled "Acme Table Tennis Company".....

Please note the absence of tasteless puns and innuendo in the above discourse. The temptation nearly killed me.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 May 1998 08:57:43 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: Plethora of stories

Ric: perhaps you should re-publish the old Tracks on the Loch Ness Monster: how it started by the Monk who wanted the road to the monastery, etc.  I thought that was a remarkable piece of historical research, demonstrating how even today, myths live on.  It would be a good example to separate out facts from anecdotes.

***************************************************************

From Ric

Bless your heart for remembering that. It was actually a chapter in the Fifth Edition of the Earhart Project - An Historical Investigation (1990) entitled "Amelia Earhart and the Loch Ness Monster." I didn't think anyone paid any attention to it.  Pretty weird title.

It's really a lot of fun.  Maybe we should should put it back in the new Eighth Edition with a more academic-sounding title.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 May 1998 09:01:54 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Fred Pic

>From:   Jackie Ferrari
>
>Enigmatic.  Like he's saying, "You lot will never figure me out..."

           ************************************************
From Vern

I was right!  Well... Sort of.  Maybe it comes to about the same thing.

It may be stretching a bit to call that a grin.  But my first thought was, "That's a Leprechaun grin!  And what mere mortal can read a leprechaun grin?
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 May 1998 09:03:15 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Smelly cockpits

Ric wrote:

>I, too, have wondered about how many of those shirts he had with him and how
>often he could get them washed.  Most of the trip was equatorial and these
>were the days before deodorants and anti-perspirants.

But they had all those gasoline fumes to numb their olfactory senses!
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 May 1998 09:05:26 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Truth

Jackie wroteL

>However on the pragmatic theory of truth a proposition is true insofar as
>it WORKS.

The field of physics is rife with this sort of thing.  Relativity, quantum mechanics, cosmology... a lot of it is pretty bizarre stuff, but so long as it keeps giving the right answers, we treat it as though it were true.  But we really don't know whether it's true or not.  And every now and then the experimentalists send the theorists back to the drawing board.  Tweek it some more!

If you watch some of the news conferences on NASA TV, You'll hear a lot of, "We think this is the way it is, but we don't really know."  It's one of the few places you'll hear much of this.  It's also about the only place you'll get much information.  The "science reporters" won't understand much and what they write will be superficial, if not incorrect.  They sure won't ask any of the questions you wish someone would ask!

My friend, Merilee, gets very angry with the publishers of text books, and with teachers, who present, as fact, stuff that is only theory.  She has a daughter who teaches 7th grade math, and gets quite a bit of exposure to what and how kids are being taught.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 May 1998 09:14:47 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: A talk with Harry Canaday

What do you think Harry meant when he said "We all knew the wives?"  During the time at PAA, FJN had only one wife.  He got divorced and remarried on March, 1937, well after he left PAA.  Does this imply FJN was still associated with PAA personnel in April and May?  If so, it seems to me that FJN was not fired, as social situations after then would have been somewhat embarrassing.

**************************************************************

From Ric

Sorry.  I wasn't clear in describing the context of his comment.  He meant that all the crew members had at least met the wives of the other married crew members.

I should also mention that when I asked if Noonan was Pan American's chief navigator, Harry responded, "Well, yes. For a while he was their ONLY navigator.  That's why they hired him. He was a sea captain."

When you think about it, celestial navigation wasn't an issue on the South American runs which had been the company's forte.  It wasn't until Trippe contemplated real ocean-flying he would need a true navigator.  Maybe that's why Fred was hired in the first place.
=========================================================
Date:         Thu, 28 May 1998 09:51:48 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Ferrari Resignation

It is with regret that I must announce the resignation of Jackie Ferrari from TIGHAR and the Earhart Forum.

Jackie, who lives in Fifeshire, Scotland, is wrting a book about the life of Fred Noonan.  She has been an active and welcome contributor to the forum for a couple of months, but she feels that she must now leave.

Her stated reasons are:

(a) She feels compromised as regards her sources. She feels she has to keep information to herself and this is a problem for her because we expect what she terms "loyalty". She says that she likes the Forum too much to start playing around.

(b) She says that she is now involved with another interested party who has asked for confidentiality.

She wishes us well in our quest.

I have accepted Jackie's resignation with regret.  I've told her that if she finds that she can not adhere to the traditional academic principles of free exchange of information and peer review, then she is correct in her decision. I've also assured her that we will continue to conduct our investigation with vigor.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 May 1998 10:13:35 EDT
From:         George Kastner
Subject:      On Strippel

Though I am not an active participant in the multi-level Earhart/Noonan researches being conducted by you all, I am very, very impressed by your work and am an avid reader of your postings on this forum.  What I have always respected most about TIGHAR is its spirit of open inquiry, its philosophy that process is more important than content--"You investigate it right, and then take whatever your investigation gives you."  I believe that TIGHAR has a clear-sighted vision of historical investigation. And I am strongly opposed to anything that puts obstacles in the way of genuine and open-minded research.  I want your investigations to be helped, not hindered, and I believe that DICK STRIPPEL is nothing but a hindrance. Does anyone on this forum derive any knowledge from his vitriolic, self-congratulatory postings, even when they have been tidied up by Ric? Do his personal attacks and complete failure to modify his tone or his behavior advance this project a single step?  Does anyone derive the slightest bit of knowledge--or even of pleasure--when reading his pompous e-mails?  I personally don't, and, further, I am offended by his attacks upon industrious people of good spirit who have done nothing whatever to deserve his mean-spirited contempt.

And I don't think I'm off topic.  I believe DICK STRIPPEL needlessly takes up the time and energy of the TIGHAR staff and delays advancement toward the goals of this forum.  Ric, I don't think you need to forward his postings, or even accept them anymore.  You and TIGHAR and this forum membership have been more than fair. Let him set up his own forum and talk to himself--that's all he's doing anyway.  Please unplug him, Ric.

Mini Tanks/George Kastner #0862C
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 May 1998 10:21:27 EDT
From:         Paul Chattey
Subject:      PAA navigation

I've assumed that references to photos of PAA survey crews, reproductions of envelopes w/cancelled stamps, Etc are from Stan Cohen's book on PAA Clippers.  I can't recall the exact title, China Clippers?  Stan is the owner of Pictorial Histories Publishing Co. in Missoula.  When I mentioned the book to fellow TIGHAR Tim Smith in Anchorage, he wasn't familiar with the book. Did I miss a beat?

The book has 3-4 photos of FN in shots of the crew.  I'd suggest we're looking at FN's public and officer-type persona, maybe conscious of projecting the PAA image?  And a mighty one it was, too.  When I was a kid, living overseas with my parents in the 50-60s, PAA (and Panagra) staff occupied an entirely different and higher Valhalla than the rest of us embassy mortals.

I'm doing a history of the CAA in Alaska (for the FAA/AK Region) and was delighted to discover PAA's subsidiary, Pacific Alaska Airways Corporation, presence there in 1940 with an interior route from Seattle to Fairbanks.  The CAA gave them grandfather rights for Juneau-Whitehorse-Fairbanks which they'd operated
since the spring of 1935 but withheld certificates for FBX to Nome and FBX to Bethel because the route had "not yet been legally clarified."  Interestingly, in the same order the CAA denied Pacific Alaska a certificate for local service between Ketchikan and Juneau because it "would have a substantial adverse effect upon the business of existing local air carriers".  Wasn't the lack of feeder routes what eventually killed PAA?  (Source: Civil Aeronautics Journal, No 13, Washington, July 1, 1940.)

Last thought, I still have several PAA certificates, signed by the captain, for Equator crossings in the 1950s to and from South America: a kid's treasure.  So, I can attest that their forte included accurate navigation to and across South America.  There are, however, some really nasty combinations of fog and mountains to fly through, so why would PAA not have needed a navigator?  Or were you saying that they didn't need a master navigator once routes and nav aids had been established?  My recollection of interviews with CAA folks who worked South America indicated that places like La Paz, Bolivia only got a working VOR in the 50s. Caracas, Quito, Lima and Santiago may have been earlier but probably not much before WWII?  Of course the French and Germans were flying airmail there in the late '20s and '30s.  I'll bet they all flew with very few extremely primitive nav aids.

PS--lovely, lovely TRACKS.  Thanks very much for all the good work.  Don't stop, I'm sure the next expedition will be the best!
 Paul

**************************************************************

From Ric

The references are not from Gandt's "China Clipper" but from another recent book about Pan Am found by TIGHAR member Jim Tierney.  Jim?  Can you help Paul out with the title and other info?
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 May 1998 10:38:27 EDT
From:         Bob Sherman
Subject:      Sextants/Octants

I was waiting for someone to drop the other shoe (octant), but you did it all by yourself!

Since the late '30's at least (can't vouch for Fred) all aircraft bubble 'sextants' were octants.  Their field prism rotated 45 deg. (one octant of a circle) to scan from the the horizon to the zenith ; usually with a 2 deg over run at each end.  Nevertheless the navy, air corps/air force called them 'sextants'. I noted a training manual of the late '50's that had a * foot note saying, "octant".    RC  941
***************************************************************
From Ric

Shoes.  We can drop 'em and we can find 'em.
=========================================================
Date:         Fri, 29 May 1998 10:47:16 EDT
From:         Mike Ruiz
Subject:      Fred's head

I am impressed by Photek's ability to measure the wreck photo.

Do enough photos exist of Fred to try comparing his skull to Hoodless's measurements?

I know they can't be exact, but maybe they can issue an opinion (like excluding the 10A).

Mike
**************************************************************

From Ric

Fascinating idea.  Sort of out-there but, what the heck.  I'll ask Jeff.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 09:31:48 EDT
From:         Ron Dawson
Subject:      Naval Air Search

The following probably supports your contention that the Navy's air search for AE and FN was something less than enthusiastic. From [On The Treadmill to Pearl Harbor - The Memoirs of Admiral J.O. Richardson]; Naval
History Division, Dept. of the Navy. Richardson had been appointed Asst. Chief of Naval Operations in June, 1937 (under Leahy). Quoting from p. 121: "Another event that made the headlines and a headache for the Navy was the large-scale naval search for Amelia Earhart. The Lexington made a 4,000 mile high-speed run from San Pedro, and the tremendous expenditures for gasoline, used by searching planes, put a severe strain on our aviation funds".

Apparently, there wasn't much budgeted for air ops in 1937.

Ron D.
****************************************************************

From Ric

Apparently nobody really expected that the Lex and her escort of destroyers would actually have to make the trip.  With supposed "faint calls" from Amelia being reported daily, everyone assumed that Colorado would rescue the lost fliers.  The whole story of the Navy's search would be hilarious in retrospect if the subject were not so tragic.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 09:39:46 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Reef-flat landing?

>July 2, 1937 - The Electra is landed successfully, wheels down,  on the reef
>flat off western end of Gardner Island.  AE and FN begin sending messages,
>hear and respond to the KGMB request, etc.

The whole scenario sounds pretty good to me.  I realize it leaves some problems with the search, etc., but what about a beach landing?  Have you had a good look at Niku from the air?  I suppose a lot of the islands look much the same.  What would it have looked like to AE and Fred?  Do you think they would have elected to try to set it down on the reef flat or might the beach have looked pretty good too?  Maybe Fred knew the pacific islands well enough from the past to have definite ideas about where it would be best to try to land.
**************************************************************
From Ric

I have not seen the island from the air except in photos.  I'm really looking forward to flying the ultralight up overhead and trying to imagine what might have looked inviting to AE.

The beach, I suspect, might look a tad narrow for an airplane with a 55 foot wingspan, and it many places it slopes pretty steeply down to the shoreline. The sand is also quite soft, but there would be no way to know that for sure from the air.

At low tide, portions of the reef flat might look really good.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 09:41:43 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Prop corrosion

>more likely that the prop got knocked or corroded off than that it got taken
>off.  The blades are aluminum.  The cuff at the hub is steel.  Corrosion is
>often worst at the junction of dissimilar metals.  Just guessing.

That's a very electrochemically active combination in salt-water.  You can make a battery with steel and aluminum.  The aluminum is "consumed" as you draw current from the battery.  With the two matals in contact, it's a dead short across the battery resulting in maximal corrosive activity.  The blades probably fell off and may still be somewhere.
***************************************************************

From Ric

Hmmmm.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 10:11:47 EDT
From:         David Kelly
Subject:      Re: Plethora of stories

>Secret Agent Amelia is very much like Nessie, the Loch Ness Monster.  There
>are lots and lots of stories, but the harder you look for her, the more she
>isn't there.

A possibility about this story.....

Mata Hari was meant to be this incredibly beautiful and successful German spy in WWI...that is what the common perception is, however, a little digging reveals that she was really pretty useless as a spy and not that attractive.  In the end the Germans sacrificed her to protect other agents. In a similar vein, is it not possible that the Amelia the spy story has been perpetuated or allowed to gather some momentum to avoid too much digging into other people or if you like the real spys of the period....This is all very conspiracy theory based for those who like it, but it would explain why a little digging finds nothing there.

David Kelly
****************************************************************
From Ric

Just as with the stories of Fred's drinking, it is rather enlightening to date the origins of the rumors.  Soon after the failed 1937 search, an Australian newspaper (Smith's Weekly, October 16, 1937) alleged that the U.S. Navy used Earhart's disappearance as an excuse to survey the Japanese mandate.  Earhart herself was not implicated and no claim was made that her flight or disappearance was anything but what it appeared to be.  Of course, the logs of the ships show that that none of them came anywhere near Japanese territory.

The first allegation that AE was secretly involved with the government appears in a screenplay originally entitled "Stand By To Die" written shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor.  The story was bought by RKO Pictures and became the basis of the film "Flight for Freedom" which popularized the notion that Earhart was the first American casualty of WWII.  A whole cult of conspiracy buffs have been trying to make life imitate art ever since.  As far as we can tell, however, Secret Agent Amelia was born on December 7, 1941.

There's an interesting cultural clue that the Earhart conspiracy theories are all a product of the wartime mentality.  It is always held that Earhart was "captured" by the Japanese.  Now - if an American personality disappeared today and it was supected that Japanese authorities were somehow to blame, it might be alleged that "Madonna Feared Abducted By Japanaese" or even "Madonna Kidnapped by Japanese", but no one would say "Madonna Captured by Japanese." Language shapes thought and reflects perceptions.  The expression "captured by the Japanese" is a dead give away of the context in which the phrase was born.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 10:13:43 EDT
From:         Sandy Campbell
Subject:      Re: On Strippel

>Please unplug him, Ric.
>
> Mini Tanks/George Kastner #0862C

HEAR, HEAR...!!
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 10:15:26 EDT
From:         Jim Tierney
Subject:      Pan Am books

The first book Paul referred to is---

Wings to the Orient by Stan  Cohen-Published June  1985 by Pictorial Histories Publ. Co..
713 South Third West
Missoula , Montana 59801
Mr. Cohen is the pres. of Pictorial Histories.

The newest book is Pan Americans Pacific Pioneers-A pictorial History of PanAms First Flights 1935-1946--Published by Pictorial Histories
Author is Jon Krupnick. Published mid1997.
Both available from the publisher

The book China Clipper by Robert Gandt is a good book but not a pictorial book.
Published by US Naval Institute, Annapolis , MD. in 1991..
Hope this helps...
Jim Tierney
**************************************************************

From Ric

Thank you, Jim.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 10:29:47 EDT
From:         John Hudak
Subject:      New Tracks on line

I am a new member of this forum.  My name is John Hudak and I must say that I have followed this search for Amelia Earhart closely since 1994. I firmly believe that TIGHAR is on the brink of discovering conclusive proof that Earhart landed on or near Gardner.

My question is this, and it may have been asked already:

Has the origin of the photo of the wrecked Elektra been determined?  I know that the story of the British sub tender didn't check out. Given that the photo is a frontal shot, has the plane in the photo been compared to other photos of Earhart's plane to determine like/unlike features?

I also heard a story a couple of years ago on "Unsolved Mysteries" that during WWII a Navy plane spotted what could have been aircraft wreckage on Gardner.  Is this story supportable?

I am waiting with baited breath to see what TIGHAR finds in August 1998.

One last thought, I can't for the life of me see why it would be an ethical problem for TIGHAR to be paid by a network for rights to film the expeditions in question.  I think it is a mutually beneficial relationship in that TIGHAR gets the funding it needs, and we get to see expertly shot footage of an utterly fascinating search.

Thanks!

John Hudak
Network Engineer
IPC Technologies
**************************************************************

From Ric

Welcome aboard, John!  We just mounted the latest issue of our quarterly journal TIGHAR Tracks  on our website at www.tighar.org. It includes a text update on research into the Wreck Photo.  For the whole dog
and pony show, including photos and enhancements, you might want to consider becoming a member of TIGHAR and receiving the actual magazine.

I suspect that what you're remembering from Unsolved Mysteries is a reference to the 1937 Navy aerial search of Gardner which reported "signs of recent habitation" but not airplane wreckage. (Speaking of Unsolved Mysteries, I can't tell you how weird it is to see the guy who played the airline captain in the High And The Mighty stand there talk about you on television.)

As for the next trip to Niku, I'm afraid we'll all have to hold our breath until the fall of 1999.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 10:41:30 EDT
From:         Barbara Wiley
Subject:      Goals

Rebecca Little wrote:

>"What have we been doing on this forum besides
> essentially speculating?"
>
> Filmmaker James Cameron once said that there are parts of history that
> are only matters of conjecture. This is true not only for Titanic in
> his case but also for Earhart in ours. We really don't know what
> exactly happened to AE and FN during their final whatever-it-was on
> this earth, and there's no way we can know. All we can do is take what
> we do have and arrange it, rearrange it, etc.
>
> I don't remember offhand who first coined the term, "historical
> guessers," but all that aside, what does this phrase actually mean?
> Does it mean we know everything there is to know about whatever topic
> that we are pursuing? Does it put us on some sort of pedestal?
>
> In my opinion historical guessing is exactly the opposite. The very
> word "guessing" is equivilent to speculation.
>
> You don't have to answer these questions here, but they are things
> that even the most inexperienced of us have to ask ourselves sooner or
> later, that is, if we want to gain any wisdom at all.

Rebecca:  The time is right, the preponderence of evidence is real, what a flick could be made -- General Doolittle told me when I mapped out the wildest spectuations while I visited him in his home, 1989, "I don't know if any of it's true, Barbara, but it would make one hell of a movie!"  Barb

***************************************************************


From Ric

Speaking for TIGHAR, the time is not right. We don't know enough yet. We're not interested in making one hell of a movie nor are we interested in arranging and re-arranging facts like old furniture. We believe that it is possible to conclusively solve the riddle of what really happened to Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan thorugh the discovery and recovery of indisputable physical evidence.  We will settle for nothing less.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 10:58:30 EDT
From:         Randy Jacobson
Subject:      Re: On Strippel

Personally, I rather enjoy Dick's posts.  I've dealt with Dick over a couple of years now, and his research is actually quite good, and he is a good source of information.  I can't recall what the beef is between TIGHAR and Dick is, but technical controversy is what is needed to keep everyone honest.  Ric knows that I perform that job reasonably well (I even appeared in his Xmas poem!).  Dick: if you read this, your technical opinions are always welcome, but personal vitriolics just seem to get in the way.  You were once a Public Affairs person, and you know how to put on a good face.  Honey attracts flies better than vinegar.
***************************************************************
From Ric

Xmas poem?  Did I write a Xmas poem?

I agree with Randy that technical controversy is essential to the investigative process.  I see no lack of it on this forum, and - Lord knows - between Randy, Mike Ruiz, and a host of others I often feel more like Rodney Dangerfield than Bob Ballard.  There is, however, no excuse for rudeness and personal attacks.

Here's my proposed solution to the situation.  As moderator of this forum I can also act as the bouncer.  It's up to me to make sure that no patron of this establishment becomes offensive to the other guests, and I now have a pretty good idea of the kind of environment that is most informative, productive and fun for the folks who come here.  In the future, Mr. Strippel (and anyone else) will only be allowed in if and when they can keep their voice down and be nice to the others.
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 11:40:46 EDT
From:         Tom King
Subject:      Truth

Finally digging through the last two weeks worth of forum fodder, I can't help throwing in my two bits' worth re. "truth."

I try to stay away from it, myself.

Actually, as Vern indicates, there's all kinds of stuff out there that people think of as "true," and treat as "true," and even design things like missions to Mars around as though they were "true."  Relativity, evolution -- none of it is absolutely, certainly "true;" it's simply supported by the bulk of the evidence, and as Jackie says, it works.

As for anecdotal "evidence," I can't quite agree with Ric that it's not evidence at all, but I agree entirely with him about the way it should be used.  We use it to generate hypotheses, which we then try to test with harder data.  A hypothesis can be generated on the basis of anything you like -- a dream, if you want to -- and there's certainly nothing wrong with using anecdote as a basis for hypothesis generation  What's important is how carefully and rigorously you test your hypothesis.

So if someone wants to use the anecdotal evidence to hypothesize that Fred drank heavily, that's fine; one just has to figure out how to test it.  And even if we find a cache of his liquor store receipts that won't necessarily prove that his reputed condition is "true;" there is the chance, however remote, that he could have been buying the stuff to water petunias.  Which, of course, would require us to test the effects of different kinds of alcohol on petunias.....

Tom King
**************************************************************

From Ric

Benedictine is known to promote Scaevola growth.

I'm probably too tough in saying that anecdotes are not evidence.  Semantic problem.  What's the difference between a piece of evidence and a clue?  Is a story of unknown verity evidence?  If not, at what point in the verifiaction process does it achieve the status of evidence.

Example: Back when we first became aware of the Floyd Kilts story about bones being found on Gardner, it sounded outlandish and incredible but it also cleary contained elements of - dare I use the word? - truth.  We treated it as - what? - a clue? -  upon which to form a hypothesis which could then be tested.  By asking the right questions we were abe to find apparent corroboration in other anecdotal sources, and through field work were able to find physical evidence (shoe parts) which seemed to also support at least some aspects of the story.  What we had, I think, were a whole bunch of clues which helped us further develop our hypothesis.

When Gallagher's correspondence was discovered in Tarawa last summer, we suddenly had - what shall we call it? -  evidence ? - that substantial portions of the hypothesis we had developed from our clues, were (gasp) true. That bones were found on Gardner moved from the realm of hypothesis to the realm of accepted fact (which may be what we really mean when we say "truth"). Of course, the idea that the bones were those of one Fredrick J. Noonan remains very much in the realm of hypthesis.

My point in all this is that I agree with Tom.  I probably should have just said that.

Ric
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 11:44:17 EDT
From:         "Dick Pingrey
Subject:      Ping pong balls, Engine without a prop, Smelly cockpits, and Navigation

As one who has flown over the ocean many times I would much rather have the weight of the ping pong balls in the form of even one additional gallon of fuel then to hope that ping pong balls would keep an airplane floating. I would doubt the addition of ping pong balls was a serious consideration by any knowledgeable pilot.

The rusting away of prop mounting bolts on an engine sitting in the surf for a period of 30 years is very likely.  Given the condition of the engine described by Bruce it is not at all surprising that the prop would be separated from the engine.

In my early years with Pan Am many, if not most, of the tropical hotels offered overnight laundry service.  I think this was a common service at even the small out of the way hotels in the 1930s through 1960s.  labor was cheep and tropical conditions dictated the need for this kind of service. We would leave a package of dirty shirts, etc. in the evening and they would be laundered and delivered to our room the next morning in most cases.

In the early years of South American flying by Pan Am, Pan Am built many of the navigation aid such as radio beacons.  When faced with competitions from other airlines I have been told that they would turn off the radio beacons when other than Pan Am airplanes were trying to find the airport. I don't know this is actually true but it makes a good story.  Navigation certainly was required for flying in South America but not over water navigation of the type Fred Noonan was skilled at doing.

Dick Pingrey 908C
=========================================================
Date:         Sat, 30 May 1998 11:54:47 EDT
From:         Sandy Campbell
Subject:      Re: Goals

Ric wrote:

> Speaking for TIGHAR, the time is not right. We don't know enough yet. We're
> not interested in making one hell of a movie nor are we interested in
> arranging and re-arranging facts like old furniture.
> We believe that it is possible to conclusively solve the riddle of what really
> happened to Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan thorugh the discovery and recovery
> of indisputable physical evidence.  We will settle for nothing less.

Thank you, Ric.  Well said.

Need we be reminded that this was a tragic event?  I for one hope it never becomes exploited, such as the Titanic has\is.

Sandy
#2110
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 May 1998 09:02:10 EDT
From:         Don Jordan
Subject:      AE time in type

I read the posts on this forum twice a day, everyday!  Even though I think some of the posts are off topic, that's OK.  And, even though I can't offer any new information yet, I have a couple of questions. Maybe you could answer them before I leave on my weeks vacation.  I am looking forward to reading all the posts, and my big "adventure" when I get back on, or about June 10th.

One question is about Jackie.  Other's have quit this forum before and they didn't rate a post on the forum to explain why.  There must have been more going on  with her that we didn't know about.

It seemed to me that she had a one track mind, that Fred was an alcoholic and it was all his fault!!!  If she is writing a book about him and prints what is only speculation, we may never be able to get at the truth...what ever that may be.

My other question is on Amelia.  Something I've always wondered about. How many hours did she have in the Electra before the world flight attempt?  Who checked her out in the Electra?

Thanks...hope to get an answer before I leave on Sunday.

Don Jordan (2109)
***************************************************************

From Ric

Yes, Jackie is writing a book about Noonan and, yes, it also seemed to me that she was resistant to the idea that his alleged drinking problem might be nothing more than Earhart-related folklore.  Jackie disagreed with our intention to make Noonan's previously-unpublished correspondence public (should we be so fortunate as to obtain access to it), even though I assured her that we would be honoring the family's wishes in this regard.  She was also upset that I reported to the forum on my conversation with Harry Canaday.

It's fairly apparent that Jackie's perceptions of historical investigation methodology and ethics differ from TIGHARs.  So be it.

As for Amelia's experience in the Electra, it's an excellent question that is difficult to answer with any real authority. First we can say that we know of no multi-engine experience she may have had prior to accepting delivery of the 10E on July 24, 1936. Second, we can say that the big-engined version of the Electra was a beast of an airplane.  (Some good information on this subject came out Linda Finch's experience.) The 1340s are almost too much engine for the airframe and the machine tends to be somewhat nose-heavy.  The noise and vibration levels can only be described as awesome.

Bureau of Air Commerce paperwork shows that on August 7, 1936 the airplane had 20 hours total time.  Some of that is probably pre-delivery test flying by the factory. By November 27, 1936 the airplane has 74 hours total flight time.  That includes the transcontinental Bendix race in September when Helen Ritchie flew the airplane with AE as co-pilot. The next time we have an official handle on total time is when the airplane
emerges from the repair shop on May 19, 1937.  At that time there was a total of 181 hours, 17 minutes on the airframe.  How much of that is Earhart's is impossible to know without seeing her logbook which, I assume, was with her on July 2nd.  However, based on the above documentation, it's safe to say that at the time of the Luke Field wreck, AE had less than 200 hours (and probably more like 100 hours) of multi-engine time.  We know that some of her initial flying was done with a Lockheed factory pilot and, of course, much of her later training was with Paul Mantz.

The second world flight attempt, from completion of repairs at Burbank to disappearance in the vicinity of Howland Island, entailed roughly another 182 hours, all of which can be assumed to be Pilot In Command time for AE.

Bottom line:  It's hardly surprising that she lost it in Hawaii, but by the time she took off from Lae she was very proficient in the airplane.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 May 1998 09:13:37 EDT
From:         Dick Strippel    START HERE
Subject:      1992 article via Strippel

hi, gang:: here's something ric may not want you to see:

             Copyright 1992 Gannett Company, Inc.
                     June 23, 1992, Tuesday
        WILL EARHART MYSTERY FANS ALLOW IT TO BE SOLVED?
             By Marshall Santos, Pacific Daily News

AGANA, Guam --  Finding Amelia Earhart's final resting place, as two Delaware people and their organization claim to have done, would lay to rest a 55-year-old love affair with a mystery that has intrigued people over the world.

But can the theory withstand criticism by those who want to keep the mystery alive?

Since Amelia Earhart's disappearance, along with navigator Fred Noonan's, over the Pacific Ocean on July 2, 1937, many theories and scenarios on their fate have popped up.

One popular theory claims the two landed on a remote Pacific island, were captured by Japanese forces and executed on the island of Saipan.

Far-fetched theories say Earhart became the famous Japanese siren, Tokyo Rose, during the war years to follow. Another says Earhart is residing on the East Coast under an assumed same.

There also are those who say the two aviators just ditched into the ocean, never to be seen or heard from again.

   Most recently, Richard Gillespie and Patricia Thrasher, the husband-and-wife team of The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery in Wilmington, Del., concluded that Earhart and Noonan lost their way during one of the last legs of their flight from Lae, Papua New Guinea, to Howland Island in the Pacific Ocean.

   Their theory says Earhart's Lockheed 10-E Electra drifted south, landing on the uninhabited island of Nikumaroro of the Phoenix island group. Gillespie said it is there where they died either of thirst or starvation.

   Nikumaroro, formerly called Gardner Island, is 3.8 miles long, about a mile across at its widest point, and located about 400 miles southeast of Howland Island.

   Former inhabitants of Nikumaroro included a settlement of Gilbertese islanders who lived there from 1938 to 1964, and a four-year stint in the 1940s by the U.S. Coast Guard at a navigation and communications station.

   After two highly publicized trips to the island in 1989 and 1991, Gillespie and TIGHAR, a non-profit organization, said they have enough evidence to prove the lost aviators landed there.

   An aluminum box - supposedly a navigator's bookcase - was found on the first trip; on the second trip, the sole of a woman's size 9 shoe and a 25-by-18-inch sheet of aluminum were found.

   Although FBI forensic experts determined there was nothing to disqualify the box from being a part of Earhart's plane, a photographer on the first expedition said the box was taken as evidence in a desperate attempt by Gillespie to find something that belonged to the plane.

   Mary DeWitt, 43, of Fort Worth, Texas, was the photographer hired by TIGHAR to take pictures on the island. She said the box was found on the first day out. She said it was used as a firebreak, and after inspection, was discarded.

   It wasn't until the day the expedition team left Nikumaroro that Gillespie decided to bring it back as evidence, DeWitt said.

   DeWitt said the aluminum box was probably left by the Gilbertese or members of the Coast Guard because it was found in an area where both groups picnicked.

   "There was a general feeling that not much else would be discovered," said DeWitt, who braved the island's hot weather for three weeks. "We were all over that place."

   An important element in the Nikumaroro theory is the time span between Earhart's disappearance and three months later, when Prof. Henry E. Maude, a member of the British Colonial Service, searched the island to find suitable water well sites for future settlements.

   According to Maude's report, 111 full-bearing coconut trees with plenty of nuts were on the ground, the island's lagoon teemed with fish, and fish were plentiful along the reef. He also noted thousands of enormous coconut crabs, a common food among Pacific islanders.

   The problem Gillespie noted in getting any nutrition from a coconut is that Earhart or Noonan might not have known what type of coconut to drink from, or how to crack coconuts open without losing the milk.

   However, there was nothing in Maude's report, nor in Gillespie's search, that indicated such attempts had been made.

   Maude said coconuts were just one form of nutrition available.

   "Two people could have survived there easily," said Maude, 85, from his Canberra, Australia, home.  Maude said he saw the television special about TIGHAR's 1991 expedition, and said Gillespie failed to mention anything about the birds and eggs that also were plentiful on the island. "Gillespie's looking for a needle in the haystack," Maude said.

   Maude said edible plants were on the island, though he added that Gilbertese islanders pointed them out to him.

   His report further noted that "the trunks of the coconut trees were in no instance 'waisted,' demonstrating that during the last 15 or 20 years at any rate the island has been free from drought."

   Gillespie said even if Earhart and Noonan survived a crash landing, they wouldn't have survived the island's drought in 1938. But that would have been after Maude's search of the island.

   In an interview from his TIGHAR office in Delaware, Gillespie said he wouldn't doubt it if the aviators were alive on the island when Maude searched it. But Maude responded by saying part of his company's search involved boat trips along the island's reef, which would have attracted survivors.
**************************************************************

From Ric

I'll be happy to answer any questions forum members may have about the information presented in the above article.  Please don't be shy.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 May 1998 09:29:12 EDT
From:         Simon Ellwood
Subject:      Wreck photo

I'm trying to do some more studying of the Wreck Photo. Believe it or not, I get a much better image to study if I scan the photo in the latest TRACKS rather than use the one on the web page.

A couple of questions:-

1)
Since you have the original can you confirm that the many white specks around the photo are flaws (scratches ?) - like the ones at the extreme right of the photo, about the same level of the engine. Or are these details? Also - there seems to be a fold or crease in the photo, running vertically and just catching one edge of the nose piece.

2)
Can you confirm that the L10 does indeed have a panel near the wing leading edge with two lightening holes in it  - as you imply in the TRACKS article?  If it does then it mustn't extend as far out as the outer wing joining position (i.e. just outboard of the engine).  I base this on one of the photo's on Linda Finch's WorldFlight web page (nice effort - shame about the cowlings) which shows a view of her L10 with an
outer wing removed. Clearly visible is the main spar - more or less at the point of maximum thickness, but no panel/spar is visible further forward in a position similar to that visible on the wreck.  Know any
details? Also visible in the foreground is a box containing various "pieces" of her L10 which exhibit similar lightening holes. if you look carefully though, these are clearly ribs (i.e. chordwise direction) and not spanwise spars/panels.

I thought the article on the photo in the latest TRACKS was generally excellent - I wasn't aware of the enhanced detail of the windshield strut. This is obviously a plus for the L10 theory.  I'm starting to
lean a little towards the L10, but I still think the nose takes some explaining.

Simon

****************************************************************

From Ric

1.)  Yes.  Those are scratches, and there is a line which may have been a crease in the original print (which we do not have).

2.)  If you'll look at the leading edge of the wing of a Model 10 between the engine and the fuselage you'll see two inspection plates on the lower surface. Remove those plates and peek up in there and you'll see plumbing running from the engine to the cockpit.  Behind the plumbing you'll see exactly what you see in the wreck photo.  You can also see this feature if you crawl under the airplane and stick your head up in the wheel well and shine a flashlight (sorry, torch) forward and inboard.  My observations were made on the Model 10 at the New England Air Museum in Windsor Locks, CT.  It is c/n 1052 and is the closest surviving serail number to Earhart's c/n 1055.  I don't know if the feature is carried into the outboard wing section.  I couldn't get in there to look.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 May 1998 09:36:05 EDT
From:         Don Neumann
Subject:      Film of "Gull Island"

About a month or so ago I saw the "Gull Island" motion picture clip on one of the Discovery Channel's periodical running of an AE search "documentary".  I tried communicating with the local station & Discovery on-line, but no one could provide me with the i.d. of the program's production company & unfortuntely I missed the credits at the end of the program, however i did recognize the clip as the same one as the frame reproduced in Klass' book.

Don Neumann
***************************************************************

From Ric

No kidding?  I'd love to find out where it came from.  If there really was motion picture film shot from the backseat of one of the Colorado's Corsairs it would be great to see.  The flight to Hull in the afternoon was a different flight than the one to McKean and Gardner in the morning, but it's just
possible that there was film taken on the morning flight also.  Wouldn't THAT be neat.

Any idea what Discovery show it was?  It wasn't the piece they did about our 1997 trip.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 May 1998 09:42:48 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Sextants/Octants

Does anyone know why the old sextants were made to rotate the mirror through an angle of 60 degrees?  This moves your line of sight through a 120 degree angle.  (Angle-of- incidence plus angle-of-reflection, whether it be mirror or prism.)  The scale is a 60 degree arc but marked from 0 through 120 degrees.  Why would you need more than 90 degrees -- horizon to zenith?  Add a couple of extra degrees to the arc to allow for observations from an elevated position -- tall ship!  But why go all the way to 120 degrees with
a sixth of a circle, hence a "sextant?"

An "octant" with a 45 degree arc (doubling to 90 degrees, plus a couple of degrees to allow "hunting" for the right spot if the star should be at the zenith) seems quite adequate for all situations.  If using a bubble, or other artificial horizon reference, it clearly never has to go beyond 90 degrees due to an elevated observation point.

So, why a "sextant?"  Was it just an aribitrary choice -- make sure it's enough?  Or, is there some situation in which a seafaring navigator would need to make sightings involving more than a 90 degrees elevation?

It has little to do with Noonan's sextants, and octants ... or his "preventer," but just general curiosity since we've got into it. "Preventer," a curious term. "Prevent" what?  Prevent going astray with a single measurement with a single instrument?

**************************************************************

From Ric

I'll defer your question to Peter Ifland, our sextant guru, whose is off on vacation at the moment.

What I take Noonan to mean by the term "preventer" is simply, "If I have a spare, I won't need it."  Sort of like carrying an unbrella to make sure it doesn't rain.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 May 1998 09:47:53 EDT
From:         Jack Snee
Subject:      Pan Am procedures

My name is Jack Snee and I am new to the TIGHAR Research Forum. I retired from Pan Am after 31 years in 1982. Most of my time was in Flight Operations and Comms. Engineering. In response to Dick Pingrey's remarks, PAA turned off the NDB's for economy reasons. In South America for instance,  many were out in remote areas of the jungle and power was supplied by generator. Fuel had to be carried on the backs of people and animals to these remote areas. When no flights were expected, the generators were turned off. PAA's man in RIO was Ule Leon now deceased. One of the stations I recall was in Manaus, Brazil and much of
the trip was backpacking it through the jungle. In later years when the International Air Transport Assoc. (IATA) and the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) were formed, the airlines flying the routes funded the navaids and radio stations because the countries did not have the funding. Comment:

It was always my feeling that the countries knew the airlines would fund the equipment because it was an FAA requirement for airlines to be able to flight follow and get a message to the aircraft throught the flight. The equipment was then turned over to the governments for operation.

Sorry I got a bit lengthy with this reply.

Jack Snee
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 May 1998 09:50:02 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Prop corrosion

>The blades probably fell off and may still be somewhere.

Corrosion would be concentrated at the aluminum-steel junction.  Once a blade separated from the steel, the "battery" would no longer exist.  I have no idea what would happen to the aluminum blade in isolation in the surf. Metals often last a long time in deep water but that's largely due to the absence of dissolved oxygen in the water.  On the reef, washed vigorously by the surf is something else.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 May 1998 09:58:42 EDT
From:         Vern Klein
Subject:      Purloined Sextant

"And what happened to the sextant itself?  Is it still somewhere on Nikumaroro?"
(The Noonan Project, TIGHAR Tracks, Vol 14, No 1, May 15, 1998)

Just stirring things... To what purpose?  Danged if I know.

I don't think the sextant is still somewhere on Nikumaroro.  I think it was in the box when the box was first found.  Why would it not be?  The box seemed not to have been used to contain something else.  "Only part discovered was thrown away by finder but was probably part of an inverting eyepiece." (Tarawa File, Document #16)  Thrown away by finder? I don't believe that either.  An item of curiosity would have been carried around for a while.  Of course, we don't know how long it took word of the find to reach Gallagher.  It may have been thrown away by the time he asked about it.

I also note that it is not said that the "probable part of inverting eyepiece" was found in the box.  It may have been found on the ground somewhere.  In any case, there appears to have been nothing else in the box -- not used for anything other than as a container for the sextant.

I think the first native worker to pick up the box removed the sextant.  Any eyepiece in the box would probably have been in a block of wood with a hole drilled in it to hold the eyepeice(s).  I may not have been noticec by the first finder.  He may have but the box down and left it -- too bulky to tuck away somewhere.  The box may then have been found by a second person.  Now there was only "part of an inverting eyepiece in it.  Why "part" of an eyepiece?  (I'm not at all sold on the eyepiece lens fire-starting theory.) What did Gallagher know that caused him to say, "part" of an inverting eyepiece?

And what did Gallagher know that prompted him to say, "... sextant being old fashioned and probably painted over with black enamel?"  (Document #2) I think there was funny business relative to that sextant.  But I can't figure out just what, or what part Gallagher had in it.  Did he slip and say more than he should have?

Did Gallagher, "The most Christ-like man I've ever known"* cover for one of the native workers?  What did he know to cover up and why did he do it?  It certainly seems to me that Gallagher knew more about that sextant than he came right out and said in the telegrams we find in the Tarawa File.

     * Quote from Colonial officer Eric R. Bevington, TIGHAR Tracks,
       Vol 13, No 1, Sept 30, 1997, page 19.

Maybe the words, "Fred J. Noonan" were scratched in that black enamel and it was deemed politically expedient to have the sextant disappear.  That leads to a very different scenario -- gets the native worker off the hook. Gallagher dropped his initial idea that the bones might be Earhart, or Noonan, rather quickly.  We have no knowledge of what communication other than the telegrams may have taken place.  Maybe Gallagher was instructed to hush up the whole thing, even from his superiors.  And get rid of that damn
sextant!

Maybe someone got to Dr. Lindsay Isaac too... offer him a little something. He'll lie.  He's the type.  Make it seem a promotion and transfer him out of there.  The bones become those of an elderly male polynesian.  The sextant is gone, the bones are gone, the rest of the stuff can never be definitely tied to Earhart and Noonam.  On with the business at hand.  We've got a war on our hands back home in England!
***************************************************************

From Ric

It's always tempting to fill in the blanks with conspiracy but there's an old saying, "Never ascribe to malice that which can be written off to incompetence."

It is certainly true that Gallagher's correspondence leaves many questions unanswered and does not seem to track all that well, but I don't think that anyone "got to" Isaac.  He was operating out of ignorance and arrogance.  His dismissal of the bones as being those of an elderly Polynesian was later superceded by Dr. Hoodless's detailed examination which concluded that they belonged to a middle-aged white guy.
=========================================================
Date:         Sun, 31 May 1998 10:20:02 EDT
From:         Ric Gillespie
Subject:      Fred's head

I talked to Jeff Glickman at Photek about Mike Ruiz's idea of comparing Dr. Hoodless's 1941 measurements of the skull with photos of Fred's head.

Here's what I learned:

Biometrics is a well-established and well-accepted form of identification. The standard is usually six measurements of a skull.  If all six match photos of the person in question, the ID is considered to be absolutely positive.

We don't have six measurements. We have four - the width and height of the eye socket and the length and breadth of the skull.  We do have lots of pictures of Fred and Amelia.  In Jeff's opinion, it's worth a shot.

We may be able to eliminate the skull as having belonged to either of our heros or we may be able to say that whoever left their skull on Niku looked a whole lot Fred Noonan or, maybe, Amelia Earhart.  That would be nice.

We need to remember that the skull was discovered and buried before Gallagher arrived on the scene.  It was only after Irish had searched the area and found the other bones that the skull was exhumed.  It may or may not go with the bones that Hoodless determined were those of a male.

We're going to run with this and see what happens.  First step is to decide what photos we'll use.  Ideally we'd like mug shots - face on and profile. We'll see how close we can come.  We also need to establish scale.  Could be tricky.

I'll keep everyone informed as to how we're making out and solicit help and ideas as needed.